why do people on here think losing in the finals

[AirBonner]

Is worse than not making the playoffs or losing in the rounds that proceeds it?

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobetards

They also think Kobe is the clutchest player ever because he has scored the most points in clutch situations

Despite the fact he has taken exponentially more shots than anyone else

[Kiddlovesnets]

Is worse than not making the playoffs or losing in the rounds that proceeds it?

Because NBA finals winning% matters, it has a serious impact on a top 20 player's legacy. Lebron currently sits at mere 33%(2/6), and will drop to 28%(2/7) after losing to the Spurs this year. This number is very bad for a superstar and future HOF player.

But of course, its retarded to think missing playoffs is better, its far worse not even making the playoffs lmao. Id say losing in first round also sucks more than losing in Finals. Losing in 2nd round is about as bad as losing in the Finals, and the best case scenario when you dont win chips, is to lose in WCF/ECF. Its a long playoffs run, and doesnt worsen your finals winning%.

[Im Still Ballin]

Because NBA finals winning % matters. Lebron currently sits at mere 33%(2/6), and will drop to 28%(2/7) after losing to the Spurs this year. This number is very bad for a superstar and future HOF player.

But of course, its retarded to think missing playoffs is better, its far worse not even making the playoffs lmao. Id say losing in first round also sucks more than losing in Finals. Losing in 2nd round is about as bad as losing in the Finals, and the best case scenario when you dont win chips, is to lose in WCF/ECF. Its a long playoffs run, and doesnt worsen your finals winning%.
Lmao

Lebron is fine

He's arguably already a top 3 player all time (ESPN)

And it's pretty much guaranteed he'll finish in the top 5, if he isn't already there now

Lebron's legacy is fine like how Wilt's was

He can go 2/10 and he'll still be a top 5 player

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lmao

Lebron is fine

He's arguably already a top 3 player all time (ESPN)

And it's pretty much guaranteed he'll finish in the top 5, if he isn't already there now

Lebron's legacy is fine like how Wilt's was

He can go 2/10 and he'll still be a top 5 player

If Lebron ends up being top 10 in NBA history after he retired, then there's a chance he'd be a top 5 if he didnt lose too many NBA finals. Its not about how good he already is, but how much better he could've been.

From an absolute scale, Lebron is already better than 99.9% of NBA players. But from a relative point of view, Lebron can rank higher on all-time list with a more respectful Finals winning%.

[bobopenguin]

bron stans always forgot some facts.

bron play in east, weak conference for last decade.
bron is a favourite, he is basically given a free pass to final year in year out.
technically, bron only needs to play 1 7games series in a playoff, and that's final.

[Spurs m8]

If Bron the deluded c*nt wants to put himself in the same league as Jordan, then he is going to be held accountable in things like Finals, its only fair.

If you're a - self proclaimed - king, shouldn't you be top of the pile?

How does losing so many finals make you a king?

This c*nt wouldn't have a castle anymore if he was a real King.

[Funktion]

Cuz when you make believe and pretend you have super secret motivation, announce that your PG is the best in the league, and say that you yourself are the best player in the world but take an L along with showing the world your lil peepee you'd be better on the golf course in April.

[imdaman99]

If you wanna be a top 5 GOAT, you can either get superhuman stats or win a bunch of championships. 2nd place means shit.

[warriorfan]

Is worse than not making the playoffs or losing in the rounds that proceeds it?

making it to the finals is usually great

except when a player is playing in the historically weak eastern conference and colludes to make it even weaker

[AirBonner]

If you wanna be a top 5 GOAT, you can either get superhuman stats or win a bunch of championships. 2nd place means shit.
Derek Fisher won a lot of chips. What is his rank?

[imdaman99]

Derek Fisher won a lot of chips. What is his rank?
C'mon man, why not bring up Robert Horry as well? :whatever:
It's different when you're a star on the team. Role player rings hold lesser value, obviously.

[Mike smith]

If Lebron ends up being top 10 in NBA history after he retired, then there's a chance he'd be a top 5 if he didnt lose too many NBA finals. Its not about how good he already is, but how much better he could've been.

From an absolute scale, Lebron is already better than 99.9% of NBA players. But from a relative point of view, Lebron can rank higher on all-time list with a more respectful Finals winning%.
Basketball is a team sport. Most of the time the better team wins. Can u blame Lebron for losing the 07 finals will booby Gibson as his second best player?? In 14 the Spurs were just a better team that year. And last year he lost Irving and love and they still managed to win 2 games. 11 is the only year where his team was the better team and he played poor in the finals.

[kamil]

The real problem is LeBron* jock riders like LeBron23, LeBronxrings, etc. all seem to think that regardless of the loss, LeBron* is still some kind of alpha on MJ's level.

Kudos to LeBron* getting to the finals, but it's not much of a feat when you collude.. and it's especially embarrassing when you promise not 2, not 3, not 4... not 7 rings and instead manage to fail about as many times instead.

[Mike smith]

The real problem is LeBron* jock riders like LeBron23, LeBronxrings, etc. all seem to think that regardless of the loss, LeBron* is still some kind of alpha on MJ's level.

Kudos to LeBron* getting to the finals, but it's not much of a feat when you collude.. and it's especially embarrassing when you promise not 2, not 3, not 4... not 7 rings and instead manage to fail about as many times instead.
It's not all about rings...

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron's already arguably top 5

Undeniably no question top 8

The general consensus has him flowing around 3-8

[Mike smith]

Lebron's already arguably top 5

Undeniably no question top 8

The general consensus has him flowing around 3-8
I have him as second best overall player who ever played. He can do everything on the basketball court, no weaknesses in his game.

[Overdrive]

Is worse than not making the playoffs or losing in the rounds that proceeds it?

Making the finals usually means you can compete with the other conference's counterpart.
You should not lose once you make it that far. Obviously '14, '12, '07, '01-'04, etc showed that it's not the case. Teams seriously got ousted.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I have him as second best overall player who ever played. He can do everything on the basketball court, no weaknesses in his game.

I dont think so. Lebron is a poor man's Magic Johnson. Magic is around 3-5 overall, and Lebron should be borderline top 10 since hes clearly below Magic.

[kamil]

It's not all about rings...

Yes it is though. It's the difference between a win and a loss.

You don't get to have 'GOAT' title but having a shit ton of failures next to your name... worse yet, LeBrons* failed more often than succeeded.

[kamil]

I have him as second best overall player who ever played. He can do everything on the basketball court, no weaknesses in his game.

Jump shot comes to mind. That cost him a ring.

[Mike smith]

Yes it is though. It's the difference between a win and a loss.

You don't get to have 'GOAT' title but having a shit ton of failures next to your name... worse yet, LeBrons* failed more often than succeeded.
It's a team sport. You can still be the best player but if the other team you are competing against is better you are not going to win. 07 Spurs had better team 14 Spurs had better team last year Irving and love were hurt so warriors had better team

[Mike smith]

Jump shot comes to mind. That cost him a ring.
11 is the only year he should have won but played poorly in the finals.

[Mike smith]

I dont think so. Lebron is a poor man's Magic Johnson. Magic is around 3-5 overall, and Lebron should be borderline top 10 since hes clearly below Magic.
Lebron has had a better career then magic

[Im Still Ballin]

Nope

Lebron is top 8 without question

No debate

ESPN and SI both have him top 5

The general consensus is locked in

Top 8 CONFIRMED

There's only more to climb from here

[Prime_Shaq]

At the end of the day people will remember how much you win and not how much you lose.

[kamil]

At the end of the day people will remember how much you win and not how much you lose.

They'll remember if you lost more than you won.

[Showtime2001]

Is worse than not making the playoffs or losing in the rounds that proceeds it?
Sorry I don't recall Kobe getting any props for making it to the finals in 2008.

[Gileraracer]

It is not, but it shows that Lebron is a career looser

[sportjames23]

I have him as second best overall player who ever played. He can do everything on the basketball court, no weaknesses in his game.


:biggums:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Not in the the east you stupid fvck.

[Born Sinner]

Since when do celtics fans dick ride lebron?

Kinda strange but i doubt op is a real celtics fan.

[plowking]

Apparently beating a 60+ win Hawk team is a cakewalk last season.

The fact that most people are saying 2/7 shows that they think Bron's team is an underdog if they get to the final, and will lose. Hence if he does win, makes it all the more remarkable. This all just using their own logic.

[knicksman]

i have no problem with 2/6 actually. Its the finals to mvp ratio i have a problem with which tells me that hes overrated. Just like wilt and oscar, robertson, iverson, rose and other players who plays like him. They are the system instead of being part of the system thats why they have inflated stats but plays losing ball. So actually they are selfish coz they would rather sacrifice teams for individual accolades. But they have high apg tho so they are unselfish. LOL only gullible idiots believe that shit.

[NZStreetBaller]

Losing in the finals isnt worse then losing in the playoffs. But losing in the finals is worse then winning in the finals. 5>2

[3ball]

And last year he lost Irving and love and they still managed to win 2 games.


Even WITH Lebron's defense allowing Iggy an extra 10 ppg, and even WITH Lebron shooting an abysmal 39%, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he holds Iggy to 7 ppg and shoots 50%, the Cavs win easily.





Can u blame Lebron for losing the 07 finals


Lebron deserves blame - despite his 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.





Not much Lebron could've done in 07 finals



Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:



....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3




Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40).






In 14 the Spurs were just a better team that year.


Lebron deserves blame again - his defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.

[3ball]

And last year he lost Irving and love and they still managed to win 2 games.



The GOAT impact on a LOTTERY team



In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8.. So heading into the 1990 season without Jordan, they were a lottery roster and headed nowhere - but WITH Jordan, they were ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting a 6-peat dynasty.. Massive difference.


Btw, Jordan carried his 1989 lottery roster to 6 games with the champs just like Lebron did in 2015 - except Jordan led that lottery roster all season, while Lebron only led a lottery roster beginning in the Finals when everyone was hurt.



Also, Jordan faced EVERY POSSESSION double-teaming in 1989 Playoffs, especially against the Pistons' "Jordan Rules" in ECF.. Here's an example from Game 6, starting at the 9 minute mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) of 4th quarter - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. All 10 double-teams shown are shown in gifs here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88).

In comparison to Jordan being double-teamed 10+ times per QUARTER, Lebron was double-teamed a total of 18 times in the ENTIRE 2015 Finals:




"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team

[ImKobe]

Because if your team is good enough to beat everyone in your conference, you should be good enough to win the series as an all-time great player...granted some years one conference may be way better than the other and the EC teams in recent years usually get beat down in these series...

But 2/6 is the argument against the stans who rave about Lebron making 5 straight Finals and 6 for his career. They think that puts him on the same level as Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Jordan, because of the amount of Finals he has led his teams to...when in reality he's always played in the weaker conference, where you can make the Finals without facing a single 50-win team.

So when you see this graphic, don't be surprised..

http://i.imgur.com/yz8FH5x.jpg

What does this say about Lebron's Finals appearances?