Stop complaining about "colluding"

[JohnnySic]

Its silly. And besides, anyone can do it. Its not like superstars like LeBron have the colluding market cornered.

Why are the big stars held to a higher standard? If a bunch of role players colluded, no one would care or even notice.

[Nilocon165]

Stalkerforlife about to come in here and go "WAAAAA BRAN RUINED MY FAVORITE SPORT WAAA COWARLDY COLLUSION STACKED"

[Steven Kerry]

Sure, anyone can do it, but LeBron is the only one cowardly enough to actively do it.

[HurricaneKid]

The World According to ISH: Joining a team that won 21, 24, 33 games the prior 3 seasons is colluding.

Meanwhile, rumors have spiraled about KD joining both GSW and SAS.

WTF ISH?

And by ISH I mean idiot Kobestans.

[stalkerforlife]

Bran is the first player of his caliber to do it. TWICE.

No other player in NBA history of his caliber has LEFT HIS OWN TEAM TWICE IN HIS PRIME TO FORM TWO SEPARATE SUPER TEAMS.

LMAO @ "stop complaining about colluding" as if legitimate basketball fans will just ignore whatever cowardly endeavor your hero partakes in.

[Orlando Magic]

WTF ISH?

And by ISH I mean idiot Kobestans.

And by idiot Kobestans, you mean ISH.

[Nilocon165]

Bran is the first player of his caliber to do it. TWICE.

No other player in NBA history of his caliber has LEFT HIS OWN TEAM TWICE IN HIS PRIME TO FORM TWO SEPARATE SUPER TEAMS.

LMAO @ "stop complaining about colluding" as if legitimate basketball fans will just ignore whatever cowardly endeavor your hero partakes in.
Called it.

[JohnnySic]

Bran is the first player of his caliber to do it. TWICE.

No other player in NBA history of his caliber has LEFT HIS OWN TEAM TWICE IN HIS PRIME TO FORM TWO SEPARATE SUPER TEAMS.

LMAO @ "stop complaining about colluding" as if legitimate basketball fans will just ignore whatever cowardly endeavor your hero partakes in.
Hero LOL. I'm far from a LeBron fan.

But he can do what he wants. Joining up with other great players is a smart move.

[Hey Yo]

Sure, anyone can do it, but LeBron is the only one cowardly enough to actively do it.
Why did Garnett waive his no trade clause in order to be traded to Boston once the Ray Allen deal to Boston was done?

He wasn't going to waive it until Ray's deal was done.

[stalkerforlife]

Hero LOL. I'm far from a LeBron fan.

But he can do what he wants. Joining up with other great players is a smart move.

Yes, he can do whatever he wants.

And I can also call his COWARDLY ass out on it. And people with a high basketball IQ, such as myself, CAN KEEP HIS COWARDLY COLLUDING ASS OUT OF MY TOP 10 FOREVER.

HE RUINED HIS LEGACY.

[Hey Yo]

The World According to ISH: Joining a team that won 21, 24, 33 games the prior 3 seasons is colluding.

Meanwhile, rumors have spiraled about KD joining both GSW and SAS.

WTF ISH?

And by ISH I mean idiot Kobestans.
The 4yrs LeBron was gone, Cleveland had the lowest win total in the league.

[stalkerforlife]

Why did Garnett waive his no trade clause in order to be traded to Boston once the Ray Allen deal to Boston was done?

He wasn't going to waive it until Ray's deal was done.

Garnett was NEVER considered the caliber of player Bran was considered. NEVER.

But you know what? THEY ARE VERY COMPARABLE.

THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING IT.

Even though Garnett was 31 his first season in Boston.

[Nilocon165]

Yes, he can do whatever he wants.

And I can also call his COWARDLY ass out on it. And people with a high basketball IQ, such as myself, CAN KEEP HIS COWARDLY COLLUDING ASS OUT OF MY TOP 10 FOREVER.

HE RUINED HIS LEGACY.
http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Hysterical-Laughing-Gif-04.gif

[PistonsFan#21]

Garnett was NEVER considered the caliber of player Bran was considered. NEVER.

But you know what? THEY ARE VERY COMPARABLE.

THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING IT.

Even though Garnett was 31 his first season in Boston.

Obviously Garnett was never considered the best player in the world like Lebron was for almost a decade...

but KG was still a top 2 powerforward / top 5 player, MVP award, numerous all star selection, DPOY and rebound titles.

If you are just looking at players that are the caliber of Lebron when it comes to dominating the league you would have to go back all the way to the 90s, before MJ retirement

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah great argument, "anybody can do it" there are a lot of things that any athlete can do, but for those who love competition they have too much integrity to take the easy way out, even if it does seem like an appealing situation when times are tough.

And its not even like times were tough. He left b2b 60 win teams who were consistently favored to make the finals and then he left a team that had made 4 straight finals after their first finals loss in 3 years.

[PistonsFan#21]

Yeah great argument, "anybody can do it" there are a lot of things that any athlete can do, but for those who love competition they have too much integrity to take the easy way out, even if it does seem like an appealing situation when times are tough.

And its not even like times were tough. He left b2b 60 win teams who were consistently favored to make the finals and then he left a team that had made 4 straight finals after their first finals loss in 3 years.

Cavs record with Lebron in 2009-10 season: 61-21 , 1st in East
Cavs record without Lebron in 2010-11 season: 19-63 , 15th in East

Miami record with Lebron in 2013-14 season: 54-28 , 2nd in East
Miami record without Lebron in 2014-15 season: 37-45 , 10th in East

Cavs record in 2013-14, the season before Lebron returned: 33-49 , 10th in East
Cavs record in 2014-15, Lebron comeback season: 53-29, 2nd in East


He is the sole reason why they are back to back 60 wins teams and are favored to make the Finals every year. Without him they're not even playoff teams. Put him on the Lakers or Sixers and they are fighting for an 8th spot in the playoffs this year. GOAT level impact. Numbers dont lie.

[hateraid]

Does it count if you force a trade? Because you need to include guys like Shaq and Barkley in the discussion. CP3 should be mentioned.

Collusion also does not guarantee success. Houston didn't pull it off in the Barkley/Shaq/Pippen experiment. Same with the Payton/Malone combo in LA.

Fact is it's easy to be happy when things are going good. When you're winning. In hindsight we give credit to those who've got success on one team. We don't factor the what ifs. What if Jordan/Magic/Bird had been drafted by a bad team with poor management? What if each of them never won a championship with their team in 8 years and had a situation that was not gonna be an immediate fix? We make assumptions that they'll win in any situation but fact is there is NO garuantee. Hell, I can see Jordan and Bird with their egos pout there way into a collude team if things looked bleed in their situation. And before you Jordan and Bird stans throw a hissyfit I'm not saying they would, but at the same time history is written so we'll never know.

[Dr Seuss]

are you guys just pretending to be retarded? it's not hard to figure out why it was such a big deal when lebron originally joined the heat. at that time, lebron was being said to easily be the best in the league - arguably, for a few years now - and also being dubbed by some to be the potential GOAT.

so when the potential GOAT told the world hed be joining up with, at that time, another top 5 (maybe even 3) player in the world and one of the best PF's in the east, and top 7 player. That kind of alignment of the stars, for players at their age, seemed unheard if

it didnt result in what the team, ish, and fans originally thought it woudl have. but they still had a fantastic run.

but today, does it still matter if anyone colludes? not so much, seeing as its been shoved down our throats, raping us from the inside, for the past 5 years.

[stalkerforlife]

Does it count if you force a trade? Because you need to include guys like Shaq and Barkley in the discussion. CP3 should be mentioned.

Collusion also does not guarantee success. Houston didn't pull it off in the Barkley/Shaq/Pippen experiment. Same with the Payton/Malone combo in LA.

Fact is it's easy to be happy when things are going good. When you're winning. In hindsight we give credit to those who've got success on one team. We don't factor the what ifs. What if Jordan/Magic/Bird had been drafted by a bad team with poor management? What if each of them never won a championship with their team in 8 years and had a situation that was not gonna be an immediate fix? We make assumptions that they'll win in any situation but fact is there is NO garuantee. Hell, I can see Jordan and Bird with their egos pout there way into a collude team if things looked bleed in their situation. And before you Jordan and Bird stans throw a hissyfit I'm not saying they would, but at the same time history is written so we'll never know.

What the hell are you ranting about?

Bran colluded TWICE in his PRIME with fellow players in their PRIME to form TWO SUPER TEAMS IN A HISTORICALLY WEAK CONFERENCE.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? :lol

[BenchMob]

True sport fans like competition and for a caliber player like him to collude TWICE is straight up disrespecting hoop fans.

There are reasons why fans of Bird, MJ, Kobe, Iverson, T-Mac and so on are so loyal to this day. Because they were REAL COMPETITORS. Meanwhile Bran is a BUSINESSMAN trying to do his best job to capitalize his opportunities.

So I don't see what's the big raise of eyebrow when you hear fans complaining about colluding. They have the right to do so.

Although I'd like to point that it is not 100% Bran's fault that the so many EC teams' front offices are pathetic. But he does have something to do with it. Be real.

:coleman: :coleman:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Cavs record with Lebron in 2009-10 season: 61-21 , 1st in East
Cavs record without Lebron in 2010-11 season: 19-63 , 15th in East

Miami record with Lebron in 2013-14 season: 54-28 , 2nd in East
Miami record without Lebron in 2014-15 season: 37-45 , 10th in East

Cavs record in 2013-14, the season before Lebron returned: 33-49 , 10th in East
Cavs record in 2014-15, Lebron comeback season: 53-29, 2nd in East


He is the sole reason why they are back to back 60 wins teams and are favored to make the Finals every year. Without him they're not even playoff teams. Put him on the Lakers or Sixers and they are fighting for an 8th spot in the playoffs this year. GOAT level impact. Numbers dont lie.


I've already destroyed this before. This teams were completely different after he left.

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah great argument, "anybody can do it" there are a lot of things that any athlete can do, but for those who love competition they have too much integrity to take the easy way out, even if it does seem like an appealing situation when times are tough.

And its not even like times were tough. He left b2b 60 win teams who were consistently favored to make the finals and then he left a team that had made 4 straight finals after their first finals loss in 3 years.

Come on

[BenchMob]

I've already destroyed this before. This teams were completely different after he left.

LeBron was the team because he can do so much. He wasn't the killer 4th quarter guy but a great all-around player. So the front office surrounded players to play to his strength. Spot-up shooters, etc.

If LeBron was actually TRADED with SOMEWHAT EQUAL value to fit pieces for Miami to win games Miami wouldn't have been that bad of a team. If you take out any superstar in a team while no decent personnel is added. Of course they're gonna stink ass.

And Kyrie was an upcoming All-Star for sure (discussion of TOP 5 PGs in an era where PGs dictate the game) but the team was dysfunctional with bad system and chemistry. Also not to mention they had redundant players like Dion Waiters.

But guess what Miami added a few pieces now they're on their way to the ECF.

So don't bring the record shit because there's more into it and you know it. :biggums:

[Hey Yo]

Colluding:

to work with others secretly especially in order to do something illegal or dishonest
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collude

To act together, often in secret, to achieve an illegal or improper purpose:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colluding

to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/collude

So what did LeBron do illegally and how did he cheat Stern/the league?

[Papaya Petee]

Since LeBron James left the Cleveland Cavaliers, the 4 seasons without him they had the LOWEST WINNING PERCENTAGE

While he was in Miami his team went to 4 STRAIGHT FINALS AND WON 2 OF THEM.

He leaves from the best team in the league those 4 years to the WORST, and he's colluding?

[insidehoops]

Cavs record with Lebron in 2009-10 season: 61-21 , 1st in East
Cavs record without Lebron in 2010-11 season: 19-63 , 15th in East

Miami record with Lebron in 2013-14 season: 54-28 , 2nd in East
Miami record without Lebron in 2014-15 season: 37-45 , 10th in East

Cavs record in 2013-14, the season before Lebron returned: 33-49 , 10th in East
Cavs record in 2014-15, Lebron comeback season: 53-29, 2nd in East


He is the sole reason why they are back to back 60 wins teams and are favored to make the Finals every year. Without him they're not even playoff teams. Put him on the Lakers or Sixers and they are fighting for an 8th spot in the playoffs this year. GOAT level impact. Numbers dont lie.

This, obviously, yes.

[oh the horror]

The World According to ISH: Joining a team that won 21, 24, 33 games the prior 3 seasons is colluding.

Meanwhile, rumors have spiraled about KD joining both GSW and SAS.

WTF ISH?

And by ISH I mean idiot Kobestans.




Stop being an idiot.


He walked onto a team that then proceeded to overhaul the roster bringing in a handful of key pieces that have transformed the team. This isn't that same shitty ass Cavs team. Stop BSing.


And has KD gone anywhere yet? The pulse online is that if KD were to join Spurs or Warriors he'd catch shit too. You're commenting on something that hasn't happened yet fool.

[oh the horror]

Cavs record with Lebron in 2009-10 season: 61-21 , 1st in East
Cavs record without Lebron in 2010-11 season: 19-63 , 15th in East

Miami record with Lebron in 2013-14 season: 54-28 , 2nd in East
Miami record without Lebron in 2014-15 season: 37-45 , 10th in East

Cavs record in 2013-14, the season before Lebron returned: 33-49 , 10th in East
Cavs record in 2014-15, Lebron comeback season: 53-29, 2nd in East


He is the sole reason why they are back to back 60 wins teams and are favored to make the Finals every year. Without him they're not even playoff teams. Put him on the Lakers or Sixers and they are fighting for an 8th spot in the playoffs this year. GOAT level impact. Numbers dont lie.




Lol is this seriously your logic here? Numbers can be used to skew a story to fit a narrative dude. In this case they do NOT tell the entire story. stop :oldlol:

[Steven Kerry]

The World According to ISH: Joining a team that won 21, 24, 33 games the prior 3 seasons is colluding.

Meanwhile, rumors have spiraled about KD joining both GSW and SAS.

WTF ISH?

And by ISH I mean idiot Kobestans.
He didn't just join teams. He conspired with Wade/Bosh and probably Riley to get the Heat going. He then joined a Cavs team that was expected to be a playoff team but underperformed, but only because they lucked out and got a 1st pick, which LeBron manipulated the franchise into trading for Love, who got wrapped in the "collude with Bran" mentality and refused to stay with his T-Wolves.

Btw, KD joining GSW or SAS would be terrible and many will turn on him too if he does that.

[Hey Yo]

Stop being an idiot.


He walked onto a team that then proceeded to overhaul the roster bringing in a handful of key pieces that have transformed the team. This isn't that same shitty ass Cavs team. Stop BSing.


And has KD gone anywhere yet? The pulse online is that if KD were to join Spurs or Warriors he'd catch shit too. You're commenting on something that hasn't happened yet fool.
But the jealous Curry/Kobe stans act as the team was already constructed and that's why LeBron came back. Not the case.

Key pieces like

J.R (everyone said I'm a cancer and shouldn't be in the league) Smith?

Iman Shumpart....who?

James (I ride the pine) Jones?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Cavs record with Lebron in 2009-10 season: 61-21 , 1st in East
Cavs record without Lebron in 2010-11 season: 19-63 , 15th in East

Miami record with Lebron in 2013-14 season: 54-28 , 2nd in East
Miami record without Lebron in 2014-15 season: 37-45 , 10th in East

Cavs record in 2013-14, the season before Lebron returned: 33-49 , 10th in East
Cavs record in 2014-15, Lebron comeback season: 53-29, 2nd in East


He is the sole reason why they are back to back 60 wins teams and are favored to make the Finals every year. Without him they're not even playoff teams. Put him on the Lakers or Sixers and they are fighting for an 8th spot in the playoffs this year. GOAT level impact. Numbers dont lie.


2010 Cavs most used line up =

Hickson/Lebron/Parker/Mo/Shaq

Coach = Mike Brown

Varejo, Big Z, Delonte West were there playing big minutes too

2011 Cavs most used line up = Gibson/Jaminson/Parker/Varejo/Mo

Head Coach = Byron Scott

Mo played 36 games for this team, and he was in their most used line up.. Big Z, Shaq, Delonte all gone


2014 Heat most used line up =

Battier/Bosh/Wade/Lebron/Chalmers

2015 Heat most used line up =

Deng/Dragic/Haslem/Wade/Whiteside

a completely different team.. some guy named Sean Williams was in their second most used line up, Bill Walker was starting games at the end of the season..

How can anybody act like these are the same teams :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:




This, obviously, yes.

hey, don't let the facts get in your way

[Real14]

Sure, anyone can do it, but LeBron is the only one cowardly enough to actively do it.
End thread and Op's career.

[k0kakw0rld]

Bran is the first player of his caliber to do it. TWICE.

No other player in NBA history of his caliber has LEFT HIS OWN TEAM TWICE IN HIS PRIME TO FORM TWO SEPARATE SUPER TEAMS.

LMAO @ "stop complaining about colluding" as if legitimate basketball fans will just ignore whatever cowardly endeavor your hero partakes in.
Sir Charles :confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

Its really a fundamental misunderstanding of the word to begin with. Players cant collude which is why when some owners complained to Stern in 2010...he said exactly that. Read the rules. Players can decide to do anything.....TEAMS....cant. There are no rules to prevent players deciding to go play together.

And really:


No other player in NBA history of his caliber has LEFT HIS OWN TEAM TWICE IN HIS PRIME TO FORM TWO SEPARATE SUPER TEAMS.

Another poorly understood but often repeated line.

You know that free agency as you think of it didnt exist from 1947 to 1988 right?

Tom Chambers was the first unrestricted FA signing when he left Seattle for the Suns in 88.

The reasons guys didnt move.....was not being able to do it. Guys tried and got sued.

The lawsuit to allow free agency took years and the NBA fought it damn near to its own death.

And after they lost it was several more CBA breakdowns, lawsuits, and rule changes to get it where it is now. Once there was true free agency and structured deals that let you know exactly when entire rookie classes will be free...it was inevitable.

Back in the day a rookie might sign a 10 year deal so he never gets a chance to mob up with other free agents on deals of random length. Shit Magic Johnsons contract was for over 20 years. He was NEVER becoming a free agent. Before that....if your contract expired...and you didnt sign your teams offer for a new one...you were automatically resigned for 10% LESS than your previous years salary. You play for what they pay you...or try to jump leagues and get sued(Rick Barry, Earl Monroe, and others).

Guys like Oscar and Earl tried to jump to better teams....lawsuits and the CBA prevented it.

Dr.J tried to sign wit hthe Hawks who had Pistol Pete(HOF), Walt Bellamy(HOF), and Lou Hudson(7 time all star)....lawsuit made him return to his old team middle of the preseason.

Here is Dr.J on what would have been a Hawks superteam:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8BVcGoREYwc/TRF9dh0b4PI/AAAAAAAAHQw/UdppsjGL3GY/s400/1974%2BDr.%2BJ%2B-%2BHawks.JPG


Judge fined the shit outta the Hawks on behalf of the Bucks(who had his NBA rights) and Virginia(ABA rights). Deal negated.

You couldnt just pick who to play for before the 90s. You played where you were drafted....forever or till the ydidnt want you...for like 30 years. Then you could leave but not till your old team worked out compensation for you. so you could be traded in a somewhat fair deal....not just walk.

All that "Nobody EVER" talk is for people who dont know enough history to see it only didnt happen because it was illegal.

Once it was legal....it was bound to begin.

[3ball]

You couldnt just pick who to play for before the 90s.


It's well-established fact that players have much more power and freedom to team-hop now than they did in the 90's.

Team-hopping and colluding is the standard now, whereas it wasn't before 2011.. In Lebron's case, each time he left a team, half the team left with him (Cavs) and/or there were major injuries - the star players were past their prime and a shell of themselves (Heat).

Team hoppers and colluders like Lebron leave teams in disarray by using up their teammates' prime and then jumping ship like a bitch - they just seek the best environment with zero loyalty, integrity, backbone, or honest competitive spirit

[JohnnySic]

LeBron wasn't colluding. He was just going home. Look, he even said so:

https://mookcool.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/20140711-123809-45489772.jpg

[Spurs m8]

Anyone can rape

Doesn't mean you do it

[bdreason]

I wasn't a fan of the Heatles reunion. When 3 top-10 players team up in their primes and dominate an already weak Eastern Conference, it's a bit cheesy, and anti-competitive. To be fair to LeBron, I think he got the idea from Boston.

[PistonsFan#21]

Its really a fundamental misunderstanding of the word to begin with. Players cant collude which is why when some owners complained to Stern in 2010...he said exactly that. Read the rules. Players can decide to do anything.....TEAMS....cant. There are no rules to prevent players deciding to go play together.

And really:



Another poorly understood but often repeated line.

You know that free agency as you think of it didnt exist from 1947 to 1988 right?

Tom Chambers was the first unrestricted FA signing when he left Seattle for the Suns in 88.

The reasons guys didnt move.....was not being able to do it. Guys tried and got sued.

The lawsuit to allow free agency took years and the NBA fought it damn near to its own death.

And after they lost it was several more CBA breakdowns, lawsuits, and rule changes to get it where it is now. Once there was true free agency and structured deals that let you know exactly when entire rookie classes will be free...it was inevitable.

Back in the day a rookie might sign a 10 year deal so he never gets a chance to mob up with other free agents on deals of random length. Shit Magic Johnsons contract was for over 20 years. He was NEVER becoming a free agent. Before that....if your contract expired...and you didnt sign your teams offer for a new one...you were automatically resigned for 10% LESS than your previous years salary. You play for what they pay you...or try to jump leagues and get sued(Rick Barry, Earl Monroe, and others).

Guys like Oscar and Earl tried to jump to better teams....lawsuits and the CBA prevented it.

Dr.J tried to sign wit hthe Hawks who had Pistol Pete(HOF), Walt Bellamy(HOF), and Lou Hudson(7 time all star)....lawsuit made him return to his old team middle of the preseason.

Here is Dr.J on what would have been a Hawks superteam:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8BVcGoREYwc/TRF9dh0b4PI/AAAAAAAAHQw/UdppsjGL3GY/s400/1974%2BDr.%2BJ%2B-%2BHawks.JPG


Judge fined the shit outta the Hawks on behalf of the Bucks(who had his NBA rights) and Virginia(ABA rights). Deal negated.

You couldnt just pick who to play for before the 90s. You played where you were drafted....forever or till the ydidnt want you...for like 30 years. Then you could leave but not till your old team worked out compensation for you. so you could be traded in a somewhat fair deal....not just walk.

All that "Nobody EVER" talk is for people who dont know enough history to see it only didnt happen because it was illegal.

Once it was legal....it was bound to begin.

Great post :applause: Stalker and his groupies will avoid it like the plague though.

[PistonsFan#21]

2010 Cavs most used line up =

Hickson/Lebron/Parker/Mo/Shaq

Coach = Mike Brown

Varejo, Big Z, Delonte West were there playing big minutes too

2011 Cavs most used line up = Gibson/Jaminson/Parker/Varejo/Mo

Head Coach = Byron Scott

Mo played 36 games for this team, and he was in their most used line up.. Big Z, Shaq, Delonte all gone


2014 Heat most used line up =

Battier/Bosh/Wade/Lebron/Chalmers

2015 Heat most used line up =

Deng/Dragic/Haslem/Wade/Whiteside

a completely different team.. some guy named Sean Williams was in their second most used line up, Bill Walker was starting games at the end of the season..

How can anybody act like these are the same teams :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:




hey, don't let the facts get in your way

:biggums: That 2015 Miami roster is actually better than the 2014 Miami roster minus Lebron.

Deng > Battier
Dragic > Chalmers
Wade = Wade
Whiteside > Andersen
Haslem < Bosh

Give Lebron that 2015 Heat roster and they get the 1st or 2nd seed in the East no problem. Thank you for proving my point even more

As for the Cavs you are seriously gonna use Big Z, Shaq and Delonte leaving as a reason for the Cavs 42 win drop off from the previous year? :roll:

Shaq and Big Z were probably the slowest and worst defending centers in the league at that point and didnt provide much on offense either. They were getting abused every single time they had to defend the pick and roll

Lets take a look at their impact:

Shaq: 12pts, 7 rebounds, 1 block

Ilgauskas: 7pts, 5rebs, less than 1 block per game

Delonte: 9pts, 3rebs, 3ast on 44%FG

:lol
Cavs actually added Ramon Session the year after who is an improvement at the SG position for them. He had: 13pts, 3 rebs , 5 ast on 46% FG

Even if Mo wasnt injured he wouldnt get them past 30 wins that year.

Those are the only facts you need to know

[stalkerforlife]

2010 Cavs most used line up =

Hickson/Lebron/Parker/Mo/Shaq

Coach = Mike Brown

Varejo, Big Z, Delonte West were there playing big minutes too

2011 Cavs most used line up = Gibson/Jaminson/Parker/Varejo/Mo

Head Coach = Byron Scott

Mo played 36 games for this team, and he was in their most used line up.. Big Z, Shaq, Delonte all gone


2014 Heat most used line up =

Battier/Bosh/Wade/Lebron/Chalmers

2015 Heat most used line up =

Deng/Dragic/Haslem/Wade/Whiteside

a completely different team.. some guy named Sean Williams was in their second most used line up, Bill Walker was starting games at the end of the season..

How can anybody act like these are the same teams :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:




hey, don't let the facts get in your way

Welcome to ether town, Branvestites.

[kamil]

If LeBron* wanted to prove that he's the best, he'd have beaten the competition instead of joining forces with it.

That's why he's a colluding bitch.

[stalkerforlife]

It's well-established fact that players have much more power and freedom to team-hop now than they did in the 90's.

Team-hopping and colluding is the standard now, whereas it wasn't before 2011.. In Lebron's case, each time he left a team, half the team left with him (Cavs) and/or there were major injuries - the star players were past their prime and a shell of themselves (Heat).

Team hoppers and colluders like Lebron leave teams in disarray by using up their teammates' prime and then jumping ship like a bitch - they just seek the best environment with zero loyalty, integrity, backbone, or honest competitive spirit

:applause:

[stalkerforlife]

Anyone can rape

Doesn't mean you do it

:roll:

[j3lademaster]

Its silly. And besides, anyone can do it. Its not like superstars like LeBron have the colluding market cornered.

Why are the big stars held to a higher standard? If a bunch of role players colluded, no one would care or even notice.A bunch of role players wouldn't be considered collusion.

[Stringer Bell]

Good, informative post.

Whatever people want to call Lebron's actions: colluding, ring-chasing, cowardly...he's not likely to be bringing that title to Cleveland this year anyway. The Warriors or Spurs are taking it, and we'll be seeing countless "2/7" or "2-5" posts for at least a year.


Its really a fundamental misunderstanding of the word to begin with. Players cant collude which is why when some owners complained to Stern in 2010...he said exactly that. Read the rules. Players can decide to do anything.....TEAMS....cant. There are no rules to prevent players deciding to go play together.

And really:



Another poorly understood but often repeated line.

You know that free agency as you think of it didnt exist from 1947 to 1988 right?

Tom Chambers was the first unrestricted FA signing when he left Seattle for the Suns in 88.

The reasons guys didnt move.....was not being able to do it. Guys tried and got sued.

The lawsuit to allow free agency took years and the NBA fought it damn near to its own death.

And after they lost it was several more CBA breakdowns, lawsuits, and rule changes to get it where it is now. Once there was true free agency and structured deals that let you know exactly when entire rookie classes will be free...it was inevitable.

Back in the day a rookie might sign a 10 year deal so he never gets a chance to mob up with other free agents on deals of random length. Shit Magic Johnsons contract was for over 20 years. He was NEVER becoming a free agent. Before that....if your contract expired...and you didnt sign your teams offer for a new one...you were automatically resigned for 10% LESS than your previous years salary. You play for what they pay you...or try to jump leagues and get sued(Rick Barry, Earl Monroe, and others).

Guys like Oscar and Earl tried to jump to better teams....lawsuits and the CBA prevented it.

Dr.J tried to sign wit hthe Hawks who had Pistol Pete(HOF), Walt Bellamy(HOF), and Lou Hudson(7 time all star)....lawsuit made him return to his old team middle of the preseason.

Here is Dr.J on what would have been a Hawks superteam:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8BVcGoREYwc/TRF9dh0b4PI/AAAAAAAAHQw/UdppsjGL3GY/s400/1974%2BDr.%2BJ%2B-%2BHawks.JPG


Judge fined the shit outta the Hawks on behalf of the Bucks(who had his NBA rights) and Virginia(ABA rights). Deal negated.

You couldnt just pick who to play for before the 90s. You played where you were drafted....forever or till the ydidnt want you...for like 30 years. Then you could leave but not till your old team worked out compensation for you. so you could be traded in a somewhat fair deal....not just walk.

All that "Nobody EVER" talk is for people who dont know enough history to see it only didnt happen because it was illegal.

Once it was legal....it was bound to begin.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Is that you, lebron?

[knicksman]

Everybody can do it but none have done it in their primes. Because nobody wants to be called weak. Thats why when lebron colluded, he got exposed as a weakling and automatically excludes him from rankings. Top 10 should be for the best.

[Dray n Klay]

Everybody can do it but none have done it in their primes. Because nobody wants to be called weak. Thats why when lebron colluded, he got exposed as a weakling and automatically excludes him from rankings. Top 10 should be for the best.


lol, this is why u have a low iq. Can't understand the game so u use stats and box scores bcuz ur a loser

[knicksman]

lol, this is why u have a low iq. Can't understand the game so u use stats and box scores bcuz ur a loser

:sleeping attention whore=loser

[NBAGOAT]

Yeah great argument, "anybody can do it" there are a lot of things that any athlete can do, but for those who love competition they have too much integrity to take the easy way out, even if it does seem like an appealing situation when times are tough.

And its not even like times were tough. He left b2b 60 win teams who were consistently favored to make the finals and then he left a team that had made 4 straight finals after their first finals loss in 3 years.

beyond disingenuous. The Cavs were great for one reason, because of him. The rest of their roster was only decent, definitely not a 60+ win team. He was in a David Robinson type of situation who still gets underrated today. He left Miami mostly because he wanted to go back to Cleveland.

[houston]

moses malone did the same thing

[warriorfan]

moses malone did the same thing

true, he hovers around the same range lebron does 13th to 15th in the all time rankings so I don't see the big deal about this thread

[Funktion]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/funnymunny77/CcMQqqBWoAA9TD3_zpscielpdgc.jpg

[diamenz]

cats who say that colluding like lebron did is okay sure tells us a lot about how they carry themselves through life.

[ZenMaster]

Colluding:

to work with others secretly especially in order to do something illegal or dishonest
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collude

To act together, often in secret, to achieve an illegal or improper purpose:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colluding

to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/collude

So what did LeBron do illegally and how did he cheat Stern/the league?


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- During a rally for Miami Heat fans Friday night, Chris Bosh said he had been talking with new teammates LeBron James and Dwyane Wade about the moment for months.

It was a slip, which some, including Bosh himself, caught. The premise that the trio had been talking about teaming up for months hinted there was a plan in place. That potentially would be against rules, and could raise concerns from the league since Bosh and James were playing for teams battling for the playoffs in Toronto and Cleveland.

Bosh quickly revised the statement and said they had been talking about it for "days." But it appears James, Bosh and Wade had been discussing this for years.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/inside_the_decision_miamis_cou.html

[Legends66NBA7]

cats who say that colluding like lebron did is okay sure tells us a lot about how they carry themselves through life.

Please read Kblaze's post. I'm surprised people don't know what collusion even means. I thought it was some sick joke on this board, but people honestly believe this nonsense that he and other have colluded.

:oldlol: @ saying what LeBron did reflects on the real life situations of other people on this board. Yeah, the situations are comparable .

[Spurs m8]

cats who say that colluding like lebron did is okay sure tells us a lot about how they carry themselves through life.

:cheers:

Try and f*ck their friends missus, for starters...

[Spurs m8]

to act together secretly or illegally in order to deceive or cheat someone:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/d...nglish/collude

So what did LeBron do illegally and how did he cheat Stern/the league?

Didn't have to be illegal, dipshit.
You might notice the word 'or' in there.

He cheated the league by making a selfish mockery of it (Not very well, mind you)

[Gileraracer]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k53/VeggieTodd/leavebritneyalone.jpg

[Steven Kerry]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/funnymunny77/CcMQqqBWoAA9TD3_zpscielpdgc.jpg
Who is Kobe?

[D. Toretto]

I actually accept OP's argument. I was complaining about colluding, but it's kinda true.

[3ball]

Its silly. And besides, anyone can do it. Its not like superstars like LeBron have the colluding market cornered.

Why are the big stars held to a higher standard? If a bunch of role players colluded, no one would care or even notice.

lebron colluded in 06' when he beat Arenas by stealing his sidekick - Hughes was 22/5/5 and 1st team all-defense in 05', and Lebron stole him from Arenas in 06'

the Arenas/Hughes combo won the 1st round in 05', but lebron stole Hughes for the 06' run... ... So Lebron was colluding and teaming up back in 05'

[Lebron23]

lebron colluded in 06' when he beat Arenas by stealing his sidekick - Hughes was 22/5/5 and 1st team all-defense in 05', and Lebron stole him from Arenas in 06'

the Arenas/Hughes combo won the 1st round in 05', but lebron stole Hughes for the 06' run... ... So Lebron was colluding and teaming up back in 05'

Jordan played with Stackhouse and Hughes in 2003. And they missed the playoffs.

[3ball]

Jordan played with Stackhouse and Hughes in 2003. And they missed the playoffs.

Jordan already improved the team by 19 games in 2002 and would've made Playoffs but he got hurt

And Jordan wasn't stealing his rival's best teammates like lebron did to Arenas, and lebron's super-team collusions.. it's embarrassing tbh

[Lebron23]

Jordan already improved the team by 19 games in 2002 and would've made Playoffs but he got hurt

And Jordan wasn't stealing his rival's best teammates like lebron did to Arenas, and lebron's super-team collusions.. it's embarrassing tbh

Boozer signed with the Jazz in 2004. They had a salary cap space in 2005. Cavaliers were planning to sign joe johnson and michael redd, but they picked the hawks and bucks instead. Hughes was a panicked signing. He had 1 great year in the nba.

[3ball]

Boozer signed with the Jazz in 2004. They had a salary cap space in 2005. Cavaliers were planning to sign joe johnson and michael redd, but they picked the hawks and bucks instead. Hughes was a panicked signing. He had 1 great year in the nba.

I remember it clearly

Hughes was considered the best option because of his 2-way play and playmaking/versatility

It was a huge loss for Arenas because Hughes averaged 23 when they won the 1st round in 05'... Then lebron stole Hughes so Arenas couldn't win