Just remember when comparing Lebron to Jordan

[AirBonner]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.

[3ball]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime... :confusedshrug:


2011 Cavs


They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points.

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011.. :rolleyes:



2015 Heat


In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..

[AirBonner]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime... :confusedshrug:


2011 Cavs


They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points.

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011.. :rolleyes:



2015 Heat


In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..
Please. This is a thread for facts only.

[3ball]

when we comparing Lebron to Jordan


There is no comparison - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring lead, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the largest load ever carried.

[riseagainst]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime... :confusedshrug:


2011 Cavs


They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points.

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011.. :rolleyes:



2015 Heat


In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..

OP got destroyed in 1st reply.

:oldlol:

[AirBonner]

There is no comparison - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).
Jordan had zero success until Pippen was on board. Bron makes his teammates better (JR Smith) and can adapt to many different players and still succeed.

[BeastMode24]

heat have done just fine without bron

[AirBonner]

heat have done just fine without bron
They had to go to the lottery just to recover. I remember threads on here saying they would still be a 50+ win team :oldlol:

[3ball]

Jordan had zero success until Pippen was on board.



Under Jordan's watch, Pippen went from a soft (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0f1EsUVCIU), 7 ppg rookie to a hardened HOF - indeed, Jordan built Pippen and made him a man:



JERRY KRAUSE, Bulls GM:

[INDENT][indent][I]

[SpaceJam]

3ball you've done it again

https://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif

[AirBonner]

[QUOTE=3ball]Under Jordan's watch, Pippen went from a soft (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0f1EsUVCIU), 7 ppg rookie to a hardened HOF - indeed, Jordan built Pippen and made him a man:



JERRY KRAUSE, Bulls GM:

[INDENT][indent][I]

[Steven Kerry]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.
99 Bulls were title contenders? News to me.

[AirBonner]

Jordan NEEDED an all time GOAT team to win. Bron last year dragged a bunch of scrubs to the finals and took arguably the GOAT team of the past 10 years to 6 games.

[Indian guy]

Cleveland in 2011 had the worst record in the league even prior to their injury issues. Just look it up. They were in the midst of their record-setting losing streak when Varejao and 'Mo Williams went down. Completely disingenuous to pretend injuries is what led to their downfall. They had already started to suck on epic levels even with the team fully healthy. And yes, they did lose Shaq, Big Z and West in the offseason, but gained Jamison, Powe and Sessions. And mind you, Shaq and Big Z both retired after 2011. They were done.

Miami, with the exact same roster + valuable additions(Deng, Dragic, Whiteside) that went to the 2014 NBA Finals, couldn't even make the freaking playoffs in the supposed "worst conference ever" last season. They didn't have a .500 record even when both Wade and Bosh played, for those pointing at Bosh's injury for the reason why they missed the playoffs. Pat Riley basically had to do a complete roster overhaul sans Wade for them to have the current season that they did.

[Chokefree]

Jordan NEEDED an all time GOAT team to win. Bron last year dragged a bunch of scrubs to the finals and took arguably the GOAT team of the past 10 years to 6 games.
Explain why he couldn't win on his own until he joined Wade and Bosh? And he hasn't won shit without them since? LOL you fvcking dumbshit

[Steven Kerry]

Please. This is a thread for facts only.
Those were facts.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cleveland in 2011 had the worst record in the league even prior to their injury issues. Just look it up. They were in the midst of their record-setting losing streak when Varejao and 'Mo Williams went down. Completely disingenuous to pretend injuries is what led to their downfall. They had already started to suck on epic levels even with the team fully healthy. And yes, they did lose Shaq, Big Z and West in the offseason, but gained Jamison, Powe and Sessions. And mind you, Shaq and Big Z both retired after 2011. They were done.

Miami, with the exact same roster + valuable additions(Deng, Dragic, Whiteside) that went to the 2014 NBA Finals, couldn't even make the freaking playoffs in the supposed "worst conference ever" last season. They didn't have a .500 record even when both Wade and Bosh played, for those pointing at Bosh's injury for the reason why they missed the playoffs. Pat Riley basically had to do a complete roster overhaul sans Wade for them to have the current season that they did.
Pretty much this.

[AirBonner]

Explain why he couldn't win on his own until he joined Wade and Bosh? And he hasn't won shit without them since? LOL you fvcking dumbshit
Did you see the roster he dragged to the finals last year? :facepalm They were missing Kyrie and Love (which people argue are better than LeBron these playoffs) So the 3rd best player on the team beat a 60 win team to get them to the finals and won 2 games against a GOAT team despite all odds.

[3ball]

they did lose Shaq, Big Z and West in the offseason, but gained Jamison, Powe and Sessions. And mind you, Shaq and Big Z both retired after 2011. They were done.


Oh, I get it - the Cavs and Heat had a completely different roster OUTSIDE of losing Lebron, yet you want to attribute their drop-off entirely to Lebron?

Nice logic and objectivity.. :applause:

But here are the facts - in 2011, the Cavs lost 52 ppg of their scoring OUTSIDE of Lebron (Shaq, Mo Williams, Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - this was over half their scoring... In 2015, the Heat roster was completely different as well, while Wade and Bosh were injured and past their prime.

So again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.. Each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime... That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder.
.

[AirBonner]

Oh, I get it - the Cavs and Heat had a completely different roster OUTSIDE of losing Lebron, yet you want to attribute their drop-off entirely to Lebron?

Nice logic and objectivity.. :applause:

But here are the facts - in 2011, the Cavs lost 52 ppg of their scoring OUTSIDE of Lebron (Shaq, Mo Williams, Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - this was over half their scoring... In 2015, the Heat roster was completely different as well, while Wade and Bosh were injured and past their prime.

So again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.. Each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime... That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder.
STFU Shaq was old as fvck and the rest of those guys were only decent BECUASE of Lebron. To assume that they would still have that kind of success without him is just dumb and retarded.

[3ball]

Miami, with the exact same roster + valuable additions(Deng, Dragic, Whiteside) that went to the 2014 NBA Finals, couldn't even make the freaking playoffs in the supposed "worst conference ever" last season. They didn't have a .500 record even when both Wade and Bosh played, for those pointing at Bosh's injury for the reason why they missed the playoffs. Pat Riley basically had to do a complete roster overhaul sans Wade for them to have the current season that they did.


They didn't have the exact same roster.

But more importantly, the Wade and Bosh were well past their primes - the 2014 Finals showed us how broken down and garbage they were - they were a shell of themselves and injury-prone.

So again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.

Each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime... [I]That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder.

[Steven Kerry]

STFU Shaq was old as fvck and the rest of those guys were only decent BECUASE of Lebron. To assume that they would still have that kind of success without him is just dumb and retarded.
Meltdown.

[AirBonner]

They didn't have the exact same roster.

But more importantly, the Wade and Bosh were well past their primes - the 2014 Finals showed us how broken down and garbage they were - they were a shell of themselves and injury-prone.

So again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.

Each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime... [I]That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder.
Bosh was 30 and Wade was 32 :biggums:

[3ball]

STFU Shaq was old as fvck and the rest of those guys were only decent BECUASE of Lebron. To assume that they would still have that kind of success without him is just dumb and retarded.


No need to get mad - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring lead, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the largest load ever carried.

[3ball]

Bosh was 30 and Wade was 32 :biggums:


the 2014 Finals showed us how broken down and garbage they were - they were a shell of themselves and injury-prone.. Bosh had a fu.cking blod clot in his damn lung

So again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.

Each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime... That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder.





STFU Shaq was old as fvck and the rest of those guys were only decent BECUASE of Lebron. To assume that they would still have that kind of success without him is just dumb and retarded.


No need to get mad - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring lead, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the largest load ever carried.

[Showtime2001]

Just remember 6/6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2/6.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lMJlzbrRNeINFK/giphy.gif

GOAT.

[AirBonner]

the 2014 Finals showed us how broken down and garbage they were - they were a shell of themselves and injury-prone.. Bosh had a fu.cking blod clot in his damn lung

So again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.

Each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime... That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder.



No need to get mad - Jordan scored 5 more ppg in the playoffs and 7 more ppg in Finals, on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg).

There's never been a player that averaged 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency edge is worth more than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds).

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring lead, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the largest load ever carried.
Injuries are part of the game. Excuses are not.

[3ball]

Injuries are part of the game. Excuses are not.
again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.

each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime...

That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder - a guy that just seeks the best environment with zero loyalty, integrity, or backbone.

[AirBonner]

again, we've never seen a team lose JUST Lebron with everyone else healthy and in their prime.

each time the rosters were completely different, there were major injuries, and the star players were past their prime...

That's what happens when you're a team-hopper/colluder - a guy that just seeks the best environment with zero loyalty, integrity, or backbone.
But the FACTS are they were a LOTTERY team without LeBron. You can get as hypothetical as you want. It is still the facts.

[Steven Kerry]

Bosh was 30 and Wade was 32 :biggums:
Injuries know no age.

[Steven Kerry]

But the FACTS are they were a LOTTERY team without LeBron. You can get as hypothetical as you want. It is still the facts.
So many caps. That meltdown continues. :pimp:

[AirBonner]

Injuries know no age.
players get injured in their prime all the time (Curry)

[3ball]

You can get as hypothetical as you want.


Accept the facts - each time Lebron left a team, half the team left with him and/or there were major injuries - the star players were past their prime and a shell of themselves.

Team hoppers and colluders like Lebron leave teams in disarray by using up their teammates' prime and then jumping ship like a bitch - they just seek the best environment with zero loyalty, integrity, backbone, or honest competitive spirit.
.

[feyki]

So , Igoudala > Jordan ?

[AirBonner]

94 bulls prove my point. Cavs and heat were nowhere near that level. It is also why 3ball feverishly trys to discredit MJ's team members. When you look at it from a non biased viewpoint it is clear a lot of Jordan's greatness is attributed to his teammates and Lebron's due to Lebron.

[kamil]

Please. This is a thread for facts only.

Your reading comprehension sucks.

[feyki]

94 bulls prove my point. Cavs and heat were nowhere near that level. It is also why 3ball feverishly trys to discredit MJ's team members. When you look at it from a non biased viewpoint it is clear a lot of Jordan's greatness is attributed to his teammates and Lebron's due to Lebron.

Yes , and Iggy's greatness far better than MJ too . Just look at difference of between 12 and 13 Phila . Iggy :bowdown: GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown:

[beastee]

They had to go to the lottery just to recover. I remember threads on here saying they would still be a 50+ win team :oldlol:
Look at your join date.

A bitch made Alt just like we all assumed.

[AirBonner]

Great point OP, I like the way you think!

LeBron>>>Ordan
You can tell by the replies that this is true :cheers:

[Spurs m8]

LeBron and Jordan isn't even a comparison LOL
Not to anyone who knows ball.

All you have to do is watch them play.

And then you could also factor in success.

In the end, one is a loser, one is a f*cking winner, and we all know who the winner is.....

One also had a beautiful, explosive, entertaining, groud breaking game thats never been topped....whilst the other crab dribbles, has terrible footwork, travels, cries all the time, colludes, freezes team mates out to lose championships...just a flat out ugly, loser game.

[guy]

Let's also remember that Lebron has the 2011 Finals.

[sekachu]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.



Nice try but fail miserably

[sportjames23]

Bonner getting absolutely murked in his own thread.

[ImKobe]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.

Please tell me more about how great the 99 Bulls were.

Pippen missed 38 games in 1998, and Bulls still won 62 games with Jordan playing in every one of them

Jordan retires, Bulls win 13 games next season

that's a 49 win difference

Cavs in 2010 won 61 games, Lebron left and they won 19, that's a difference of 42 wins, and this is with PRIME Lebron, we're talking about a 34 yr old Jordan here :kobe:, Miami only won 17 less games when Lebron left in 2014, and that's with Bosh missing 38 games in 2015.

[sportjames23]

Please tell me more about how great the 99 Bulls were.

Pippen missed 38 games in 1998, and Bulls still won 62 games with Jordan playing in every one of them

Jordan retires, Bulls win 13 games next season

that's a 49 win difference

Cavs in 2010 won 61 games, Lebron left and they won 19, that's a difference of 42 wins, and this is with PRIME Lebron, we're talking about a 34 yr old Jordan here :kobe:, Miami only won 17 less games when Lebron left in 2014, and that's with Bosh missing 38 games in 2015.


Aether :cheers:

[knicksman]

if you understand basketball, youll realize that lebron is the system while jordan is just part. So if lebron is gone, the team crumbles while if jordan is gone, they still perform. But give them time to adjust like miami right now and thats when youll see the real team bran left.

[diamenz]

op is fifteen year old euro trash.

[Gileraracer]

.
We've never seen how a team would perform without Lebron because each time he jumped ship, half the team ALSO left, or the team had injuries and was past their prime... :confusedshrug:


2011 Cavs


They didn't just lose Lebron - they lost other 2 starters (Shaq, Mo Williams) and 3 more key players (Varejao, Delonte, Zydrunas) - these guys scored a combined 52 ppg, which is more than half the Cavs points.

So it's ludicrous to disregard the 52 ppg of these guys, and act like Lebron's 30 ppg was the difference in 2011.. :rolleyes:



2015 Heat


In 2014, the Heat's RS record would've placed them at the 4-6 seed out West (3-way tie for the 4-seed).. They were easily the Spurs' worst opponent in those playoffs, since they had a 15-point disadvantage in ORtg against the Spurs (a record), compared to only 3 points, 6 points and 8 points for Mavs, OKC and Blazers, respectively.

Accordingly, the 2014 Heat were a 1st or 2nd Round team out West that fell to a lottery team in 2015 (due to injuries to Bosh/Wade).. The only reason their drop-off seems bigger is because they played in a worst-ever Eastern Conference.

More importantly - Bosh and Wade's prime was over by the time Lebron left - he used up their primes, and then jumped ship like a bitch..


Damn spittin' facts straight into OPs face. Bury him already

[Disaprine]

Just remember 6/6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2/6.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lMJlzbrRNeINFK/giphy.gif

GOAT.
i was about to post this.

[Dragonyeuw]

Please tell me more about how great the 99 Bulls were.

Pippen missed 38 games in 1998, and Bulls still won 62 games with Jordan playing in every one of them



Amazing how haters go on about the 55 win season in 94, and ignore the above. MJ himself I think had an issue with his shooting hand, and was pretty much working with Kukoc and a 37 year old Rodman as his best teammates until Pippen came back.

[riseagainst]

just remember, OP is a fakkit.

[NBAGOAT]

Amazing how haters go on about the 55 win season in 94, and ignore the above. MJ himself I think had an issue with his shooting hand, and was pretty much working with Kukoc and a 37 year old Rodman as his best teammates until Pippen came back.

Come on now Pippen still played over half the season. Mj, Pippen, Rodman, and Phil all left. It was pretty much just Kukoc and Harper and basically d-leaguers. Yes the haters go on about the 55 win season too much but those 2 situations aren't comparable.

[ballinhun8]

After LeBron left his teams they were lottery teams. After Jordan left they were title contenders.


1999 Bulls - straight lottery


FACT


2003 Wizards - 12 less wins in a sh*tty Eastern Conference.

[Dragonyeuw]

Come on now Pippen still played over half the season. Mj, Pippen, Rodman, and Phil all left. It was pretty much just Kukoc and Harper and basically d-leaguers. Yes the haters go on about the 55 win season too much but those 2 situations aren't comparable.


The point I was making was that the Bulls won 62 games with Pippen missing 38 games. MJ also willed the Bulls, on the road, to the championship with Pippen a non-factor due to his injured back.

[NBAGOAT]

The point I was making was that the Bulls won 62 games with Pippen missing 38 games. MJ also willed the Bulls, on the road, to the championship with Pippen a non-factor due to his injured back.

I think part of the reason for 62 wins is the league and East was weaker(ik i shouldn't talk with the way the East has looked so far). No offense to Pacers who were great as a team but their talent on paper really isn't really that impressive and they were the best challengers to the Bulls.

[Da_Realist]

I think part of the reason for 62 wins is the league and East was weaker(ik i shouldn't talk with the way the East has looked so far). No offense to Pacers who were great as a team but their talent on paper really isn't really that impressive and they were the best challengers to the Bulls.

62 wins is impressive considering MJ was the one holding the team together through not only Pippen's injury but the overall dislike and distrust between the front office and the players that would have distracted most other teams. Pippen said he wouldn't ever play for the Bulls again during his hiatus. Phil said he was done. The team was old and going for a 3rd straight title with a bullseye on their back.

Add on top of that MJ turned 35 that year carrying such a load after not missing even one game after coming back from retirement in 96. Will to win and even more impressive, will to play.

[NBAGOAT]

oh no doubt it was impressive from MJ. I doubt you'll argue 98 was better than any other championship years for MJ which should also put it in some perspective.

[Da_Realist]

oh no doubt it was impressive from MJ. I doubt you'll argue 98 was better than any other championship years for MJ which should also put it in some perspective.

It depends. In terms of dominance, that is one of the 1st 3peat years. In terms of will to win, it was never more on display than in the 2nd 3peat and especially in 1998.

[Dragonyeuw]

oh no doubt it was impressive from MJ. I doubt you'll argue 98 was better than any other championship years for MJ which should also put it in some perspective.

That wasn't the argument, merely that it was impressive for a 35 year old MJ to hold that team together in-spite of his advancing age, myriad of personnel issues as Da Realist described, and Pippen's absence for 38 games. And, also as stated, his will was never on greater display than it was game 6 of the finals.

[Disaprine]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/jordan-lebron-airball-miss.gif~original

[LAZERUSS]

I think part of the reason for 62 wins is the league and East was weaker(ik i shouldn't talk with the way the East has looked so far). No offense to Pacers who were great as a team but their talent on paper really isn't really that impressive and they were the best challengers to the Bulls.

26-12 without Pippen...

36-8 with Pippen.

Pippen a true winner.

Much like Horace Grant, who DRAMATICALLY ELEVATED EVERY TEAM he joined.

Grant >>>>>>>> POS Bosh.

[NBAGOAT]

26-12 without Pippen...

36-8 with Pippen.

Pippen a true winner.

Much like Horace Grant, who DRAMATICALLY ELEVATED EVERY TEAM he joined.

Grant >>>>>>>> POS Bosh.

thanks Laz for at least not mentioning Wilt. Still going overboard with the Pippen love however.

[LAZERUSS]

thanks Laz for at least not mentioning Wilt. Still going overboard with the Pippen love however.

Not at all...

Pippen and Grant missed a combined 22 games in their '94 season, and still went an overall 55-27. Had they been reasonably healthy, and that Bulls team would easily have won 60+ games...which would have been HUGE, since it would have given them HCA thru the entire playoffs (they went 5-0 at home in that post-season BTW.) The next year, the Bulls not only didn't have MJ (until the last 17 games of the year), but they lost Grant to the Magic, as well. Pippen carried what was left to a 34-31 record...and even that was deceptive, because in the ten games before Jordan rejoined the team, they went 8-2.

In any case, Pippen and Grant are among the two greatest winners in NBA history. I won't bother looking up Grant's W-L records at every stop now, but they increased DRAMATICALLY over the previous year. Hell, he had a year in Orlando, in which Shaq missed 20 games, and they still went 15-5 without him. And that team had a far greater record in the games in which Grant played, than in the games in which Shaq played.

You simply cannot minimize the IMPACT that Pippen and Grant had on the Bulls teams in the decade of the 90's.

[Da_Realist]

26-12 without Pippen...

36-8 with Pippen.

Pippen a true winner.

Much like Horace Grant, who DRAMATICALLY ELEVATED EVERY TEAM he joined.

Grant >>>>>>>> POS Bosh.

26-12 without Pippen
36-8 with both MJ (MVP) and Pippen

[Da_Realist]

In any case, Pippen and Grant are among the two greatest winners in NBA history. I won't bother looking up Grant's W-L records at every stop now, but they increased DRAMATICALLY over the previous year. Hell, he had a year in Orlando, in which Shaq missed 20 games, and they still went 15-5 without him. And that team had a far greater record in the games in which Grant played, than in the games in which Shaq played.

You simply cannot minimize the IMPACT that Pippen and Grant had on the Bulls teams in the decade of the 90's.

Yet, during the 30 for 30 documentary, the players and coach gave credit to PENNY for stepping up in Shaq's absence and leading the way. In fact, he did so well he stole the hearts of his teammates and the fans which caused friction with Shaq when he returned.

[knicksman]

26-12 without Pippen...

36-8 with Pippen.

Pippen a true winner.

Much like Horace Grant, who DRAMATICALLY ELEVATED EVERY TEAM he joined.

Grant >>>>>>>> POS Bosh.


Wilt and bran care more about stats than rings so they prefer to be the system than being part of it. Of course, their teams would suck without them coz it takes time to adjust to a new system. But in the end, only rings matter. You can have your stats but wilt and bran are still disrespected just like their stans being the whipping boys of ish

[PP34Deuce]

Wilt and bran care more about stats than rings so they prefer to be the system than being part of it. Of course, their teams would suck without them coz it takes time to adjust to a new system. But in the end, only rings matter. You can have your stats but wilt and bran are still disrespected just like their stans being the whipping boys of ish


When you are great in most everything that makes a basketball game successful it's hard to not be the system. I'd say until recently lebron didn't have a system because he masks your team deficiencies.

Yea he's a bad shooter but he's great in everything else.