James harden is basically what tmac was

[ShawkFactory]

Before I get hammered here, I have a younger cousin in town for Mother's Day who said that they're basically the same thing.

I disagree but what's the true difference?

He says tmac never made it past the first round and also didn't really play D.

I say tmac was basically Kobe without the sadistic will to win.

But dude never won a playoff series. Hard to argue that.

How do you impress that tmac was just clearly better?

[Yankstar]

Tmac was way more athletic then Harden.

Tmac is like Lebron if he didn't play D

[ShawkFactory]

Tmac was way more athletic then Harden.

Tmac is like Lebron if he didn't play D
Pssshhhh

Tmac could get hot from the perimeter in ways Lebron could only dream

[Milbuck]

Some of TMac's supporting casts make Harden's Rockets look like the Warriors. Peak TMac just shits on Harden, I don't know what else to tell you. People can circle jerk over Harden's RPM and VORP stats all they want but I don't know how anyone who has watched both players at their best could come away thinking Harden is on that level.

[Yankstar]

Pssshhhh

Tmac could get hot from the perimeter in ways Lebron could only dream

Career shooting percentages suggest otherwise

[ShawkFactory]

Career shooting percentages suggest otherwise
Did you watch peak tmac? You can be honest with me. This is a safe place.

[plowking]

Some of TMac's supporting casts make Harden's Rockets look like the Warriors. Peak TMac just shits on Harden, I don't know what else to tell you. People can circle jerk over Harden's RPM and VORP stats all they want but I don't know how anyone who has watched both players at their best could come away thinking Harden is on that level.

They are though.

Funnily enough both were considered good to great defenders before moving to that main man role. And what supporting casts are you talking about? McGrady had far better ones when he was paired up with Yao and Artest, and a few others. The point is Harden actually led his team to the WCF, something Mcgrady has never done. And TMac had way better casts at some point in time than the one Harden got to the WCF with.

TMac is 10 times funner to watch, but they are a similar level of player.
What is Harden averaging over the last two seasons? 28/7/6 just guessing? You won't find many seasons that McGrady had that were better, while leading his team to the WCF.

[ShawkFactory]

Some of TMac's supporting casts make Harden's Rockets look like the Warriors. Peak TMac just shits on Harden, I don't know what else to tell you. People can circle jerk over Harden's RPM and VORP stats all they want but I don't know how anyone who has watched both players at their best could come away thinking Harden is on that level.
That's all great but it's tough to argue tmacs history.

It equates to anyone trying to argue across eras. Because my boy never saw tmac in his prime.

Even though I already knew it, this solidified how futile it is to argue with people who haven't seen a certain player play. I've been guilty of it but I feel like I am least am open to things that others have seen that I haven't.

[soots]

TMac and Kobe where basically the same, the difference being one was injury prone and the other was cancerous.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Some of TMac's supporting casts make Harden's Rockets look like the Warriors. Peak TMac just shits on Harden, I don't know what else to tell you. People can circle jerk over Harden's RPM and VORP stats all they want but I don't know how anyone who has watched both players at their best could come away thinking Harden is on that level.

Are you ****ing kidding me bro?

Who the hell does Harden have to help him? He has literally no offensive help

He is the offense

[ShawkFactory]

Are you ****ing kidding me bro?

Who the hell does Harden have to help him? He has literally no offensive help

He is the offense
Wasn't always though.

Lawson went there to die basically. Nobody can thrive in an offense that harden controls.

What people have said about "Lebron ball"...harden actually stifles his teammates.

Lebron actually doesn't

[NBAGOAT]

Harden's never going have a year that compare to tmac 03. Few people have played with rosters that bad. Outside of that year, it's not that bad of a comparison however.

[plowking]

Harden's never going have a year that compare to tmac 03. Few people have played with rosters that bad. Outside of that year, it's not that bad of a comparison however.

Agree with that.

But then take a look at Harden's last two seasons. McGrady has never had seasons that good outside of 03.
To push it even further, you could argue that TMac never had a season as good as Harden has when they both wore Rockets uniforms.

[NBAGOAT]

Agree with that.

But then take a look at Harden's last two seasons. McGrady has never had seasons that good outside of 03.
To push it even further, you could argue that TMac never had a season as good as Harden has when they both wore Rockets uniforms.


I definitely agree and it's not close. Injuries were a factor and he had some moments but he was kind of disappointing in Houston. You could maybe argue for 02 or 04(kind of hard to for 04 since the Magic won 20 games) but Harden last year was better.

[CTbasketball92]

They are though.

Funnily enough both were considered good to great defenders before moving to that main man role. And what supporting casts are you talking about? McGrady had far better ones when he was paired up with Yao and Artest, and a few others. The point is Harden actually led his team to the WCF, something Mcgrady has never done. And TMac had way better casts at some point in time than the one Harden got to the WCF with.

TMac is 10 times funner to watch, but they are a similar level of player.
What is Harden averaging over the last two seasons? 28/7/6 just guessing? You won't find many seasons that McGrady had that were better, while leading his team to the WCF.

Harden got bailed out by his team last year lol they led the comeback while he was on the bench. Yao Ming was always injured, and those magic teams were just awful. Between all that, Prime TMac never really had a legitimate shot at being a winner.

Watching them play, TMac was far more fleet-footed and athletic than Harden, so he could get off a good shot whenever. he could score a ton of points without getting foul calls nearly as much as harden, especially in the half court. Put TMac on this past year's rockets and I think they do better, and TMac has far better numbers than harden against GS.

[Relinquish]

T Mac shits on Haren. Haren isn't even close to as good as Orlando T Mac was.

T Mac was a god in the postseason (unlike Haren), despite his teams falling short.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, Bryant and T-Mac are the same, except for the fact that Kobe was the far, far better player.

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah, Bryant and T-Mac are the same, except for the fact that Kobe was the far, far better player.
It was all mental though.

Which is big.

But I've never seen someone go 1-on-1 with Kobe for a full game and get the best of him. Kobe won more than tmac did but I saw Kobe get in to his wild defensive mode and tmac still got to him.

[Nikola_]

when i think about tmac i think of complete offensive package, on the other hand you have harden chucking threes and living off of FTs. Dont get me wrong he is a very good player but give me teemack any day of the week

[StephHamann]

The point is Harden actually led his team to the WCF, something Mcgrady has never done. And TMac had way better casts at some point in time than the one Harden got to the WCF with.



yeah, he was leading them when McHale benched him in the clinching games against the Clippers for entire 4th quarters.

[bobopenguin]

Are you ****ing kidding me bro?

Who the hell does Harden have to help him? He has literally no offensive help

He is the offense

that's cos he doesnt let other ppl play the god damn ball.

[ImKobe]

03 T-Mac is better than any version of Harden

but career-wise Harden has already surpassed him..T-Mac never was healthy enough, 09 the Rockets pushed the Lakers to 7 games with him and Yao injured, imagine a healthy Rockets squad with Yao-Battier-Artest-T-Mac

They won 53 games that year regardless of all injuries, what a shame man. The battles between him and Kobe were legendary.

[Sakkreth]

Pssshhhh

Tmac could get hot from the perimeter in ways Lebron could only dream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YswvPYW6L_Q

:confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YswvPYW6L_Q

:confusedshrug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C6gDS9YGAU

[Dresta]

Yeah, Bryant and T-Mac are the same, except for the fact that Kobe was the far, far better player.
Do you ever come into a thread to not suck Kobe's nutz?

[feyki]

T Mac was like Doctor J , Harden is like fat arabs .

[riseagainst]

Career shooting percentages suggest otherwise

nigguh you 10?

[ShawkFactory]

T Mac was like Doctor J , Harden is like fat arabs .
I've heard older heads say he was more George Gervin than Doc

[j3lademaster]

Tmac gets an overly bad rep for never making the 2nd round, but let's be real. Those Orlando teams were one of the worst casts I've ever witnessed. Andrew Declerq, Pat Garrity were key players. Mike Miller was your 2nd option. No one takes that team very far.

And McGrady's only real healthy season with Houston they ran into a very good Mavs team. I dare anyone to go rewatch that series. Yao was still very young and had some very bad choke jobs that series, and McGrady shut down prime Dirk unlike anyone I've seen. Rewatch the series and watch the defense TMac played on Nowitzki before you try to just blow it off due to his 'bad' defensive reputation. Dirk feasted on Ryan Bowen every chance he got to achieve the numbers he did that series.

And it's not like that Houston team was very good outside of their 2 stars. Old foot out the door David Wesley was still a baller, but who else? People here acting like he had sick role guys like prime artest and battier, like he wasn't already heavily injury plagued when those guys came along.

TMac's a better player than Harden. Harden is slightly better offensively (in terms of impact not necessarily skill), but Tmac can turn on the defense when he wanted to. And despite the myths about Tmac being frozen in the playoffs due to his misleading w/L, he actually brought it come playoff time; who unlike the Beard, freezes up when refs let teams play.

Tmac took that Pat Garity, Andrew Declerq team to 7 games against a powerhouse Detroit team. Mike Miller was traded midseason, mind you, so their 2nd option was (probably)... Giricek??? Yeah Tmac hung multiple 40 point efforts and took THAT Hamilton/ Chauncey lead Detroit team with the beast anchoring the defense to 7 games with THAT supporting cast. No way Harden does that with that supporting cast. I'd be surprised to see him average 22 against that detroit defense with similar ref treatment to Tmac that series. But if the roles were switched, I bet Tracy McGrady doesn't lay an egg against that Portland team and wins with Howard, Beverly and Parsons.

Harden will have the better career when it's all said and done because this guy is sturdy as hell, but put his best up against a prime Tracy McGrady and the Beard falls just a little bit short imo.

[ShawkFactory]

03 T-Mac is better than any version of Harden

but career-wise Harden has already surpassed him..T-Mac never was healthy enough, 09 the Rockets pushed the Lakers to 7 games with him and Yao injured, imagine a healthy Rockets squad with Yao-Battier-Artest-T-Mac

They won 53 games that year regardless of all injuries, what a shame man. The battles between him and Kobe were legendary.
Even if harden has surpassed him career-wise, could you ever picture him going toe-to-toe with peak Kobe like tmac used to?

[Blue&Orange]

Career shooting percentages suggest otherwise
lol Tmac >>>> Harden

Harden plays on a garbage era with soft paper tissue defensive rules.

[Stringer Bell]

Agreed...This game 7 against Dallas basically says it all about the depth (or lack thereof) of that Rockets team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200505070DAL.html



Tmac gets an overly bad rep for never making the 2nd round, but let's be real. Those Orlando teams were one of the worst casts I've ever witnessed. Andrew Declerq, Pat Garrity were key players. Mike Miller was your 2nd option. No one takes that team very far.

And McGrady's only real healthy season with Houston they ran into a very good Mavs team. I dare anyone to go rewatch that series. Yao was still very young and had some very bad choke jobs that series, and McGrady shut down prime Dirk unlike anyone I've seen. Rewatch the series and watch the defense TMac played on Nowitzki before you try to just blow it off due to his 'bad' defensive reputation. Dirk feasted on Ryan Bowen every chance he got to achieve the numbers he did that series.

And it's not like that Houston team was very good outside of their 2 stars. Old foot out the door David Wesley was still a baller, but who else? People here acting like he had sick role guys like prime artest and battier, like he wasn't already heavily injury plagued when those guys came along.

TMac's a better player than Harden. Harden is slightly better offensively (in terms of impact not necessarily skill), but Tmac can turn on the defense when he wanted to. And despite the myths about Tmac being frozen in the playoffs due to his misleading w/L, he actually brought it come playoff time; who unlike the Beard, freezes up when refs let teams play.

Tmac took that Pat Garity, Andrew Declerq team to 7 games against a powerhouse Detroit team. Mike Miller was traded midseason, mind you, so their 2nd option was (probably)... Giricek??? Yeah Tmac hung multiple 40 point efforts and took THAT Hamilton/ Chauncey lead Detroit team with the beast anchoring the defense to 7 games with THAT supporting cast. No way Harden does that with that supporting cast. I'd be surprised to see him average 22 against that detroit defense with similar ref treatment to Tmac that series. But if the roles were switched, I bet Tracy McGrady doesn't lay an egg against that Portland team and wins with Howard, Beverly and Parsons.

Harden will have the better career when it's all said and done because this guy is sturdy as hell, but put his best up against a prime Tracy McGrady and the Beard falls just a little bit short imo.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

TMac was a really good defender post Orlando.

Houston Mac shts on Har_en

[feyki]

I've heard older heads say he was more George Gervin than Doc

I meant physicality . Of course , Doctor was fastbreak,drive to the basket guy . T Mac was more skilled player , specially on outside scoring .

[MiseryCityTexas]

People were ranking T-mac right up there with Kobe at one point of his career. Harden was never on that high of a level of a player. Even today, Harden's a great player, but is he even better than Klay Thompson?

[feyki]

People were ranking T-mac right up there with Kobe at one point of his career. Harden was never on that high of a level of a player. Even today, Harden's a great player, but is he even better than Klay Thompson?

This is unfair imo . Yes , he was bad as you said this year . But he was amazing last year . I'm sure he was on the same level as Kobe,T Mac . Maybe little bit worse but doesn't matter , same tier definitely .

[MiseryCityTexas]

I don't even think Harden's even better than Clyde Drexler. Prime Clyde Drexler would annihilate James Harden.:oldlol:

[MiseryCityTexas]

James Harden is basically just a slightly better version of 70s player Dave Bing. Both of them are/were shooting guards that pass the ball alot. Harden's a better scorer, more athletic, bigger and taller than Bing, while Bing was a better defensive player and a much better passer, and a much better playmaker than Harden.

[NBAGOAT]

I don't even think Harden's even better than Clyde Drexler. Prime Clyde Drexler would annihilate James Harden.:oldlol:

that's just an unfair comparison. Prime Clyde Drexler owns Prime Tmac too unless you're only looking at 2-3 years.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I bet if a time machine existed, and last season's 2014-2015 Rockets played against the 1974-1975 Detroit Pistons, the Pistons would probably still win because Bob Lanier in 1975 was a million times better than Dwight Howard in 2015, and Dave Bing can pass, so a sg that can pass like a traditional pg, and a dominant center like Bob Lanier is a matchup made in hell for that Harden and Dwight Rockets team.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I noticed that even Clint Capela was playing better than Dwight Howard towards the end of the 2015 season and NBA play-offs, and Clint is ****ing terrible this year.

[CuterThanRubio]

If McGrady played with the intention to bait refs into fouls like Harden does he would have even greater numbers than he did.

I agree that they are similar in a lot of ways, but aesthetically TMac is one of the best and Harden is too busy diving around most of the time to generate any memorable highlights outside of uninspired defensive lapses.

[TheMarkMadsen]

no T Mac actually attacked the rim with intention to make the shot instead of trying to draw the foul

[brooks_thompson]

One played basketball, the other plays a meta-game