These Cavs would be ridiculously better with Jordan instead of Lebron

[3ball]

.
The only reason Love and Kyrie are playing closer to their full capacity/potential is because Lebron has reduced HIS OWN production - he's only getting 23.5/8.8/7.3 in these playoffs.

Otoh, Jordan wouldn't need to reduce his production for teammates to play to their potential and capacity.

He'd get his normal 33/6/6 playoff averages, while Love and Kyrie played to full capacity, just like Pippen and Horace did..

With Jordan-led teams, EVERYONE played to full capacity.. But with Lebron, it's one or the other (Lebron or his teammates).

[bigkingsfan]

Yup Kyrie would put up 30 PPG along with Love 28 PPG. :banana:

[Nilocon165]

1-9
Just kidding you're right

[KingPush]

Jordan without Pippen would lose to the Pistons in the 1st round

As evidenced by his 1-9 record

[3ball]

Yup Kyrie would put up 30 PPG along with Love 28 PPG. :banana:


That's ABOVE their capacity.

Love and Kyrie would achieve at least the same stats they have now, but Jordan would ALSO achieve his capacity - this was 33/6/6 in the playoffs, which is obviously far more than Lebron's current 23/9/7.

With Jordan-led teams, EVERYONE played to full capacity.. But with Lebron, it's one or the other (Lebron or his teammates)... That's why Jordan's teams were way better.

[3ball]

Jordan without Pippen would lose to the Pistons in the 1st round



Depending on the year, Pippen and Grant played between 90% and FULL capacity alongside Jordan, compared to their stats WITHOUT Jordan:



PIPPEN 1992:. 21.0 ppg.. 7.7 rpg.. 7.1 apg.. 50.6 fg
PIPPEN 1994:. 22.0 ppg.. 8.7 rpg.. 5.6 apg.. 49.1 fg


GRANT 1992:. 14/10
GRANT 1994:. 15/10


Otoh, Lebron's teammates play to 50% capacity in some cases... Except in these playoffs, because LEBRON is the one playing below his production capacity.

He's playing below capacity because he's playing off-ball (that's the only way to allow his teammates to play to capacity).. Unfortunately, he isn't a good enough off-ball player to get 30 ppg while playing off-ball, LIKE JORDAN DID.
.

[SilkkTheShocker]

1-9

[Smoke117]

Curry >>> Jordan

[3ball]

Curry >>> Jordan



Jordan was a FAR better jumpshooter than Curry inside 20 feet:



.....................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................Cur ry 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)............ Curry 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/) <--- link to nba.com data

5-9 ft.......... 49.2%, 126 fga........... 40.3%, 72 fga.......... 48.6%, 72 fga

10-14 ft....... 51.5%, 466 fga........... 52.9%, 85 fga.......... 50.9%, 57 fga

15-19 ft....... 49.5%, 594 fga........... 43.9%, 132 fga........ 37.3%, 102 fga



Overall midrange % (all shots inside the 3-point line but outside the paint)

JORDAN 1997:. 49.3%, 1202 fga
CURRY.. 2015:. 41.1%, 285 fga
CURRY.. 2016:. 42.5%, 200 fga




Ironically, Jordan wouldn't even NEED his goat shooting to be the best in today's game - Lebron, Westbrook, Derozan, Butler and Wade had sub-par efficiency on 3-pointers and midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40) for most of their careers, but they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ the same way, except he'd have goat midrange shooting, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over the non-shooting Lebron, Westbrick and company.

[Ben Simmons]

Not really. They need Lebron's all around game to fill in the gaps.

Kyrie and Jordan are sort of redundant.

Although Jordan is better than Lebron, if that's what you mean.

[3ball]

Curry >>> Jordan



Jordan's 1991 was on another level:



Per 100 Possessions

JORDAN 1991 RS: 42.7 pts.. 8.1 reb..4 7.5 ast.. 3.3 tov.. 3.7 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 60.4 ts.. 125 ORtg.. 31.6 PER.. 0.321 WS/48
CURRY 4 2016 RS: 42.5 pts.. 7.7 reb..4 9.4 ast.. 4.7 tov.. 3.0 stl.. 0.3 blk.. 66.9 ts.. 125 ORtg.. 31.5 PER.. 0.318 WS/48
JORDAN 1991 PO: 41.8 pts.. 8.5 reb.. 11.2 ast.. 3.4 tov.. 3.2 stl.. 1.8 blk.. 60.0 ts.. 127 ORtg.. 32.0 PER.. 0.333 WS/48



Jordan had higher Player Efficiency Rating and points-per-possession efficiency (ORtg), even though Curry's efficiency was boosted by carrying a smaller load on both sides of the ball:



....................PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

CURRY 2015..... 29.9..... 36.2..... 33.4..... 36.6...... 29.3...... 40.6
CURRY 2016..... 35.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/)..... 39.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)



Ultimately, Jordan achieved the highest honor (winning championship and FMVP), while carrying a bigger load on both ends, which makes efficiency arguments irrevelant..

Not that it matters - Jordan had higher Player Efficiency Rating and points-per-possession (while carrying the larger load on both ends)
.

[sd3035]

Jordan's best season is still below Curry's career TS :applause: :applause: :applause:

[3ball]

Jordan's best season is still below Curry's career TS


Curry's true shooting means he's more efficient on a per SHOT basis, but Jordan was more efficient on a per POSSESSION basis (ortg), which is more important.

Jordan's higher per possession efficiency was due primarily to lower turnovers, but also because his superior midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) efficiency partially offset Curry's 3-point efficiency.

Jordan's superior per-possession efficiency is impressive considering he scored a higher proportion of his team's points while also carrying a bigger load on defense.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Jordan without Pippen would lose to the Pistons in the 1st round

As evidenced by his 1-9 record

Most of Jordan's teammates in the mid 80s were role playing cokeheads and crackheads also.

[3ball]

.
Imagine if your favorite player scored 5-7 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board - that's what MJ did in comparison to Lebron:


Career Playoffs - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Playoffs - PER 100 POSSESSIONS:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Finals - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg


There's never been a number 1 option that scored 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring edge on superior efficiency is far more valuable than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) and 2.5 def rebound edge (MJ had more offensive rebounds).

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709473&postcount=1).

Furthermore, Jordan scored 10 more ppg than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career AND led the team in passing (MJ led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49))... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.
.

[3ball]

Curry >>> Jordan



Jordan was involved in MORE possessions for his team (usage), while producing more per-possession (ORtg) - he simply DID MORE:



1991 vs. 2016:



JORDAN REG SEASON:. 32.9% Usage.. 125 ORtg
CURRY4 REG SEASON:4 32.6% Usage.. 125 ORtg



Career



JORDAN REG SEASON:. 33.3% Usage.. 118 ORtg
CURRY4 REG SEASON:4 26.9% Usage.. 117 ORtg

JORDAN PLAYOFFS:. 35.6% Usage.. 118 ORtg
CURRY4 PLAYOFFS:4 28.2% Usage.. 115 ORtg


Jordan gave his team MORE (possessions) of a GOOD THING (per possession efficiency)






Curry is more efficient


Not true - Curry is more efficient on a per SHOT basis, but Jordan was more efficient on a per POSSESSION basis (ortg), which is more important.

Jordan's higher per possession efficiency was due primarily to lower turnovers, but also because his superior midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) efficiency partially offset Curry's 3-point efficiency.

Jordan's superior per-possession efficiency is impressive considering he scored a higher proportion of his team's points while also carrying a much bigger load on defense.







http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif


Curry spaces the floor


Jordan's spaces the floor MORE - when a dangerous rim attacker is on the floor, ALL defenders must cheat off their man (see Isiah Thomas above), which leaves 3-point shooters and other teammates more open than otherwise.. This is basketball 101.

Otoh, 3-point shooters only cause a single defender to hug them on the perimeter, which doesn't do shit BY ITSELF - it takes the entire Warrior team shooting 3-pointers TOGETHER to provide floor-spacing.

Essentially, 3-point shooters need teammates to help them space the floor, whereas a single rim attacker frees up teammates for open shots all by themselves, by forcing the entire defense to cheat off their man..

[MiseryCityTexas]

People always saying that Jordan never won anything without Pippen is a pretty bad argument, because Jordan's play-off teams in the mid 80s were mediocre as hell compared to other NBA teams in the 80s. The Bulls during the mid 80s weren't even better than Dominique Wilkins Hawks back in the day. They were barely better than Ron Harper's Cavs. Bulls used to struggle against the Cavs back in the mid 80s until Pippen was drafted.

[3ball]

They need Lebron's all around game


The "all-round" argument is pure bullshit - in the playoffs, Lebron averages 2.5 more defensive rebounds (less offensive rebounds) and 1.0 more assists (with more turnovers).

So you prefer those things over Jordan scoring 5.5 more points on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg)?

Jordan also led his team in passing by assisting on the highest proportion of teammates field goals - he led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49).

Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the greatest load ever carried.





Jordan scored more



Jordan didn't just "score more".. He scored WAAAY more... Specifically:



No all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their careers......... EXCEPT Jordan, who led his team in scoring BY AT LEAST 10 PPG for every series of his career - let that sink in (edit: there were 2 series where Jordan only led by 7 ppg and 5 ppg).


Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the greatest load ever carried.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Jordan's pre Scottie Pippen's Bulls weren't even better than the Milwaukee Bucks. Sidney Moncrief, Marques Johnson, Paul Pressey and Terry Cummings used to kill Jordan's teams back in the day, because all Jordan had for offensive help was a crackhead version of Scottie Pippen in Orlando Woolridge, and a washed up George Gervin.

[3ball]

Jordan's pre Scottie Pippen's Bulls weren't even better than the Milwaukee Bucks.


Those Bucks were the best Bucks teams in franchise history.

When they faced Jordan in the playoffs his rookie year (1985), they had won 59 games and had the league's 2nd ranked defense - they were thoroughly stacked top to bottom, including the reigning, 2-time DPOY Sidney Moncrief, who guarded Jordan.

But despite facing the 2-time DPOY, who was THE greatest perimeter defender ever at that time, Jordan averaged 29/6/9 on 57% TS.. That's probably the GOAT performance for a rookie in their first series.

[Lebron23]

Hell no. Jordan without Phil Jackson would turn Love, and Irving into spot up shooters.

[GrapeApe]

Lebron is "only" averaging 24/9/7. :oldlol:

Those are prime Larry Bird numbers.

[livinglegend]

Cavs would lose in the first round with Jordan instead of Lebron.
Jordan has never shown that he can win a playoffs series without Pippen.
He is 1-9 without him. He would be a career loser without him.

[3ball]

Lebron is "only" averaging 24/9/7. :oldlol:

Those are prime Larry Bird numbers.


Those stats would rank as the worst of Jordan's playoff career.

Jordan's career averages were 33/6/6, which is obviously a lot more than Lebron's current 24/9/7.

Lebron's stats are low because he's playing off-ball much more than before, which allows his teammates to play to capacity.. But it also sacrifices his own production because he isn't a good enough off-ball player to get 30 ppg, LIKE JORDAN DID.

With Jordan-led teams, EVERYONE played to full capacity because he could get 30 ppg playing off-ball.. But with Lebron, it's one or the other (either Lebron plays to full capacity being ball-dominant, OR his teammates play to full capacity as he plays off-ball - never both)... That's why Jordan's teams were way better.
.

[GrapeApe]

Those stats would rank as the worst of Jordan's playoff career.

Jordan's career averages were 33/6/6, which is obviously a lot more than Lebron's current 24/9/7.

Lebron's stats are low because he's playing off-ball much more than before, which allows his teammates to play to capacity.. But it also sacrifices his own production because he isn't a good off-ball player to get 30 ppg, LIKE JORDAN DID.

With Jordan-led teams, EVERYONE played to full capacity because he could get 30 ppg playing off-ball.. But with Lebron, it's one or the other (Lebron or his teammates)... That's why Jordan's teams were way better.

So you're conceding that in a "down" playoff run, Lebron is on par with prime Bird? Also, why does Lebron need to score 30 ppg?

[PP34Deuce]

Lebron masks the defense of the CAVS along with Tristan Thompson. Love can be a liability on team D and Lebron has taken a backseat to filling the gaps.

By filling the gaps, there's no one more versatile than Lebron James. People can bring up all the advanced stats in the world to help skue their argument, the eye test along with stats suggest why it's easier to build a team around Lebron James.

Lebron gives you the size and ability to do what you need to do to win the game. If I need an ISO shot, I go to Jordan.

If I need a rebound, I go to Lebron
If I need a play set up, I go to Lebron

Lebron on those Chicago teams would have revived gervins career and other players. A better passer and more dangerous in the Bird Magic vein, Those Chicago Bulls team would have gone further than Jordan took them before Pippen.

[ShawkFactory]

You've gotten so boring

[3ball]

Lebron masks the defense of the CAVS along with Tristan Thompson.


You're lying and ignoring facts:

Lebron let a 7 ppg role player average 17 ppg and be > Curry

But even WITH Lebron's defense allowing a role player 10 ppg above their average, and even WITH Lebron shooting an abysmal 39%, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he holds Iggy to 7 ppg and shoots 50%, the Cavs win easily.

[k0kakw0rld]

.
The only reason Love and Kyrie are playing closer to their full capacity/potential is because Lebron has reduced HIS OWN production - he's only getting 23.5/8.8/7.3 in these playoffs.

Otoh, Jordan wouldn't need to reduce his production for teammates to play to their potential and capacity.

He'd get his normal 33/6/6 playoff averages, while Love and Kyrie played to full capacity, just like Pippen and Horace did..

With Jordan-led teams, EVERYONE played to full capacity.. But with Lebron, it's one or the other (Lebron or his teammates).
I usually respect you and your posts. But this "coulda, shoulda, woulda" sh!t needs to stop. It will never happen so please, stop wasting space with unnecessary threads. Next please...

[PP34Deuce]

You're lying and ignoring facts:

Lebron let a 7 ppg role player average 17 ppg and be > Curry

But even WITH Lebron's defense allowing a role player 10 ppg above their average, and even WITH Lebron shooting an abysmal 39%, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he holds Iggy to 7 ppg and shoots 50%, the Cavs win easily.


You are breaking your own role. Mr Morey. You keep giving one off situations and then cleverly use stats to show your agenda. Mr Morey you are quite good at this game. I wish you the best of luck on first take as the next atg troll.

Thread over. Moving on mr. Morey.

[RRR3]

Alex English was better than Jordan

[AirBonner]

Westbrook>Jordan

[RRR3]

Boris Diaw>Jordan tbh.

More skilled.

[red1]

Nah. Would probably get swept by the pistons.

[3ball]

A better passer and more dangerous in the Bird Magic vein


Jordan, Bird and Lebron average within 1.0 assists of each other in the playoffs (5.7, 6.4, and 6.7, respectively)

Therefore, they're all in the same vein, and FAR below Magic's 12.5 apg "vein".

Jordan, Bird, and Lebron are nowhere near Magic as a passer.






there's no one more versatile than Lebron James.



Jordan played far better DEFENSE:



Jordan never let role players score 10 ppg above their average like Lebron did in 2014 and 2015 Finals.

Jordan was also DPOY in 1988, which is the exact time period that you think Lebron would've done better.



Jordan played far better OFFENSE:



he scored 5.5 more points in the playoffs on better efficiency, with only 1 less assist on fewer turnovers



So Jordan was superior on both ends, but you're harping on Lebron's 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds)??.... RIDICULOUS






Jordan scored more



Jordan didn't just "score more".. He scored WAAAY more... Specifically:



No all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their careers......... EXCEPT Jordan, who led his team in scoring BY AT LEAST 10 PPG for every series of his career - let that sink in (edit: there were 2 series where Jordan only led by 7 ppg and 5 ppg).


Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the greatest load ever carried.
.

[red1]

I would love to see that bald ****** hold his team back from winning in the playoffs. I mean one for nine? Really?

Just not seeing it OP.

[3ball]

You keep giving one off situations


You think it's just one example?... :biggums:

In the 2014 Finals, Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% (his regular averages).

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3 and couldn't persevere - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.

[3ball]

Lebron would've done better with those early Bulls' teams.



The GOAT impact on a LOTTERY team



In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8.. So heading into the 1990 season without Jordan, they were a lottery roster and headed nowhere - but WITH Jordan, they were ECF veterans and 1 season away from starting a 6-peat dynasty.. Massive difference.


Btw, Jordan carried his 1989 lottery roster to 6 games with the champs just like Lebron did in 2015 - except Jordan led that lottery roster all season, while Lebron only led a lottery roster beginning in the Finals when everyone was hurt.



Also, Jordan faced EVERY POSSESSION double-teaming in 1989 Playoffs, especially against the Pistons' "Jordan Rules" in ECF.. Here's an example from Game 6, starting at the 9 minute mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) of 4th quarter - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. All 10 double-teams shown are shown in gifs here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88).

In comparison to Jordan being double-teamed 10+ times per QUARTER, Lebron was double-teamed a total of 18 times in the ENTIRE 2015 Finals:




"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team

[Lebron23]

Lebron with those early Bulls team = Conference Finals.

[3ball]

Lebron with those early Bulls team = Conference Finals.


Let me get this straight:

Lebron embarrassed himself with 22 ppg on 35% against the 2007 Spurs, AND he lost to the 2009 Magic, but you think he could beat the all-time great 1986 and 1987 Celtics?

And in 1988, Jordan was DPOY while averaging 35 ppg... Lebron can't do that, so how can he match anything Jordan did that year?.. Btw, Jordan was scoring champ while also being 1st team all defense 9 times - no one else has done it more than twice.





Lebron with those early Bulls team


You've forgotten what happened in 2009: Lebron's supporting cast added enough help on top of his 28/8/7 to win 66 games... Compare that to the 1989 Bulls, who only added enough help on top of Jordan's 33/8/8 to win 47 games.

The only possible reasons for the Cavs winning 19 more games despite Lebron's inferior production is that Lebron's supporting cast was better and/or they played inferior competition.. Obviously, the 19 wins can't due ONLY to inferior competition - it's due to weaker supporting cast as well.

[Lebron23]

Jordan is a career loser without Pippen and Jackson. LeBron might win his 3rd NBA title this year without Riley, Wade and Bosh.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Jordan is a career loser without Pippen and Jackson. LeBron might win his 3rd NBA title this year without Riley, Wade and Bosh.

Whats up bro?

I disagree with that statement.

[3ball]

Jordan is a career loser without Pippen and Jackson. LeBron might win his 3rd NBA title this year without Riley, Wade and Bosh.
Do you realize that no all-time great has ever led his team in scoring for every playoff series of their careers?

EXCEPT Jordan, who led his team by at least 10 ppg for every series of his career - let that sink in - Jordan had the least help BY FAR of any all-time great.. It isn't remotely close.

Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), and best-ever defense at his position is the greatest load ever carried.. Show me someone who tops that... You can't boss.. :confusedshrug: .. :pimp: