Will Curry guard LBJ in the Finals?.. Otherwise, he's nowhere near MJ

[3ball]

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/spring-1991-los-angeles-lakers-magic-johnson-right-is-guarded-by-of-picture-id569162619


Jordan's GOAT two-way performance included being the primary defender on Magic - MJ guarded him for 14 of 20 quarters, which included holding Magic to 0-0-0 with 1 TO in critical Game 3 OT, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtj8ovhp48&t=6m04s).. (btw, Pippen missed that OT by fouling out - classic Pippen - MIA in the critical moments of the series).

The 1991 matchup pitted the regular season MVP winner (MJ) vs. the runner-up (Magic), and both guys were top 5 all-time players - this has never happened before.. But MJ dominated the goat matchup - here are their overall stats for the series:

JORDAN 1991 FINALS:. 33/7/11 on 56%
MAGIC.. 1991 FINALS:. 19/7/13 on 43%


Obviously, MJ's defensive impact dwarfs Curry's - this is especially true against teams that have great perimeter players, since MJ can guard guys like Magic, Lebron, or Drexler, while Curry can only defend guys like Shumpert, Delly, etc.

There's a reason Curry didn't win FMVP in last year's Finals - he only did half the job, while Iggy did the other half (defense).

Otoh, MJ performed Iggy's duties on defense by guarding Magic/Drexler, while still having a goat offensive impact - Jordan's 2-way ability is why he has 6 FMVP's, compared to Curry's 0.



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:

Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c


Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%). [/SIZE]

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

You've made this thread before.:coleman:

MODS

[theaussieguy]

Meltdown

[9erempiree]

He doesn't need to guard Lebron. He has to make sure Kyrie doesn't go off on him.

Curry can get away with not playing defense so in order to beat the Warriors you have to go at him offensively.

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan wouldn't guard Lebron either, next.

[SavageMode]

GSW without Curry is a 1st Seed in the West. Curry is the product of being on an already stacked team.

[plowking]

Curry is above him.

[Spurs m8]

Meltdown

You know he has a point.

That's why your response was so weak.

[SouBeachTalents]

Probably not, but I'm sure we'll see this thread again

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399770
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401671&page=2

[hold this L]

2insecure is back :pimp:

[ImKobe]

OP has a point

this is why Curry will never have a chance to be close to top 5 all-time

all players in the top 10 all-time list were at one point elite on the defensive end, even Larry Bird.

[Overdrive]

MJ didn't guard Ewing, Shaq, Olajuwon, Mourning, etc so he's nowhere near Kareem, who guarded the best centers of his time.

Kareem = GOAT

[bigkingsfan]

OP has a point

this is why Curry will never have a chance to be close to top 5 all-time

all players in the top 10 all-time list were at one point elite on the defensive end, even Larry Bird.
Magic didn't make a defensive team once.

[ImKobe]

MJ didn't guard Ewing, Shaq, Olajuwon, Mourning, etc so he's nowhere near Kareem, who guarded the best centers of his time.

Kareem = GOAT


MJ can guard four different positions

Can Kareem do that?

[9erempiree]

Magic didn't make a defensive team once.

Lol

Magic wasnt very good in defense but he made it up in passing.

Curry's strength is not better than Magics.

[bigkingsfan]

Lol

Magic wasnt very good in defense but he made it up in passing.

Curry's strength is not better than Magics.
Curry combination of scoring/passing is easily better than Magic

[ImKobe]

Magic didn't make a defensive team once.

well he led the league in steals in b2b years, not many players ever did that, don't know the story behind his defensive teams but he wasn't a bad defender.

[ImKobe]

Curry combination of scoring/passing is easily better than Magic

Rookie Magic went off for 42 pts 15 reb 7 ast playing Center in Game 6 of the Finals @Philly to secure the title with Kareem injured

[bigkingsfan]

well he led the league in steals in b2b years, not many players ever did that, don't know the story behind his defensive teams but he wasn't a bad defender.
Steals are not indicator of elite D, Curry was the league leader.


Rookie Magic went off for 42 pts 15 reb 7 ast playing Center in Game 6 of the Finals @Philly to secure the title with Kareem injured
He doesn't even average 20 for his playoff career.

[3ball]

Steals are not indicator of elite D, Curry was the league leader.


He doesn't even average 20 for his playoff career.
Pretty sure Magic is ahead of Curry in every defensive statistical category (dbpm, etc) other than steals.. This is because Magic was basically a big man on defense - he banged inside the lane, and naturally had a bigger defensive impact, JUST LIKE MOST BIGS OVER GUARDS.

Now if Curry was one of the top defenders at the point guard position, he would still have a greater defensive impact than bigs, for obvious, intuitive reasons (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12343906&postcount=21).... but he isn't.
.

[34-24 Footwork]

I'd be MUCH MORE WORRIED about the guy that dropped 57 on K Leonard. Steph will have his hands full. Lebron will take care of himself.

[bigkingsfan]

Pretty sure Magic is ahead of Curry in every defensive statistical category (dbpm, etc) other than steals.. This is because Magic was basically a big man on defense - he banged inside the lane, and naturally had a bigger defensive impact, JUST LIKE MOST BIGS OVER GUARDS.

Now if Curry was one of the top defenders at the point guard position, he would still have a greater defensive impact than bigs, for obvious, intuitive reasons (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12343906&postcount=21).... but he isn't.
.

Neither were elite defenders. Just replying to the other comment.

[raprap]

Curry will lockdown MJ

[3ball]

Curry will lockdown MJ


Jordan didn't have teammates spreading the floor for him either - teams only attempted 5 threes per game when Jordan won his first ring in 1991, compared to 25 attempts per game for today's teams.

So today's player benefits from teammates that space the floor and cause defenders to cover more ground - three-point shooters benefit the most from scrambling defenders, which is why 80% of today's 3-pointers (including Curry's) are "open" or "very open", as described on NBA.com's stats page (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12360926&postcount=37).

Otoh, Jordan achieved his stats WITHOUT teammates spreading the floor.. In today's spaced-out game, his stats would explode because he has the same (better) athleticism as Lebron/Westbrook, but they can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12338297&postcount=47), and Jordan could - he had goat midrange efficiency, better than Curry's (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), which puts him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gives him a similarly massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron and Westbrook.
.

[raprap]

Today's teams average 25 three-point attempts per game, compared to 5 per game when Jordan won his first ring in 1991.

So today's player benefits from teammates that space the floor and cause defenders to cover more ground - three-point shooters benefit the most from scrambling defenders, which is why 80% of today's 3-pointers (including Curry's) are "open" or "very open", as described on NBA.com's stats page (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12360926&postcount=37).

Otoh, Jordan achieved his stats WITHOUT teammates spreading the floor like today's game.. In today's spaced-out game, his stats would explode because he has the same (better) athleticism and ball-handling ability as Lebron/Westbrook, but they can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12338297&postcount=47), and Jordan could - he had goat midrange efficiency, better than Curry's (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), which puts him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gives him a similarly massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron and Westbrook.
Curry will lockdown MJ

[ImKobe]

Steals are not indicator of elite D, Curry was the league leader.


He doesn't even average 20 for his playoff career.

Magic was 6-9 though...takes a lot more effort to average 3.4 steals for an entire season for a guy his size, who routinely guarded SFs/PFs

and he also wins in other categories

DRTG: Curry 106, Magic 104
DBPM: Curry -0.5, Magic +1.5

Curry's best DBPM for a season is 0.3, Magic's is 3.6

Magic never had a negative year in that category

[bigkingsfan]

Magic was 6-9 though...takes a lot more effort to average 3.4 steals for an entire season for a guy his size, who routinely guarded SFs/PFs

and he also wins in other categories

DRTG: Curry 106, Magic 104
DBPM: Curry -0.5, Magic +1.5

Curry's best DBPM for a season is 0.3, Magic's is 3.6

Magic never had a negative year in that category
Neither were elite defender, which was the original point you were trying to make. I don't care if he was better on D. Stop trying to rewrite history.

[ImKobe]

Neither were elite defender, which was the original point you were trying to make. I don't care if he was better on D. Stop trying to rewrite history.

Magic is an elite defender compared to Curry.

[bigkingsfan]

Magic is an elite defender compared to Curry.
I don't really care. Your original comment was the one I was replying to.



all players in the top 10 all-time list were at one point elite on the defensive end, even Larry Bird.

[3ball]

Curry will lockdown MJ



It would take Jordan literally 2 seconds to score on Curry, just like against KJ:


https://media.giphy.com/media/Z79Ha3anKDujC/giphy.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/tDcpcUrIibpvi/giphy.gif

[ImKobe]

I don't really care. Your original comment was the one I was replying to.

Magic at one point in his career was elite on that end

his 2nd year in the league he averaged 3.4 steals, had a 98 DRTG (league's best defensive teams had a DRTG above 99, Kareem had a DRTG of 101) and mind you that he was also struggling with injuries half of the season...and he was averaging 22/9/9

forward to the next season, he again has the best DRTG on the team and leads the team in defensive win shares and is only 2nd to Kurt Rambis in defensive +/-, 1st among starters and far ahead of Kareem

Saying that Magic was never elite on defense is blasphemous when he had better defensive numbers than Kareem on those Laker squads.

Michael Cooper was making defensive 1st teams, but Magic had better defensive stats than him. Hmm.

[SexSymbol]

Magic at one point in his career was elite on that end

his 2nd year in the league he averaged 3.4 steals, had a 98 DRTG (league's best defensive teams had a DRTG above 99, Kareem had a DRTG of 101) and mind you that he was also struggling with injuries half of the season...and he was averaging 22/9/9

forward to the next season, he again has the best DRTG on the team and leads the team in defensive win shares and is only 2nd to Kurt Rambis in defensive +/-, 1st among starters and far ahead of Kareem

Saying that Magic was never elite on defense is blasphemous when he had better defensive numbers than Kareem on those Laker squads.

Michael Cooper was making defensive 1st teams, but Magic had better defensive stats than him. Hmm.

:facepalm
He was never even average.

[bigkingsfan]

Yes, Magic was a better defender than Kareem and Micheal cooper despite their numerous All Defensive selection and Magic didn't get a single one. Whatever you say. :confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

Yes, Magic was a better defender than Kareem and Micheal cooper despite their numerous All Defensive selection and Magic didn't get a single one. Whatever you say. :confusedshrug:

He at ONE POINT was. That was my original point. All the Players that you can list top 10 all-time were elite on the defensive end at ONE POINT in their career.

Next you're going to tell me that Bird was an average defender despite leading the league in Defensive Win Shares 4 times.

[bigkingsfan]

He was at one point better than Kareem and Cooper, including the years that he was supposedly elite and got voted over. Gotcha. :oldlol:

[Ass Dan]

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/spring-1991-los-angeles-lakers-magic-johnson-right-is-guarded-by-of-picture-id569162619


Jordan's GOAT two-way performance included being the primary defender on Magic - MJ guarded him for 14 of 20 quarters, which included holding Magic to 0-0-0 with 1 TO in critical Game 3 OT, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtj8ovhp48&t=6m04s).. (btw, Pippen missed that OT by fouling out - classic Pippen - MIA in the critical moments of the series).

The 1991 matchup pitted the regular season MVP winner (MJ) vs. the runner-up (Magic), and both guys were top 5 all-time players - this has never happened before.. But MJ dominated the goat matchup - here are their overall stats for the series:

JORDAN 1991 FINALS:. 33/7/11 on 56%
MAGIC.. 1991 FINALS:. 19/7/13 on 43%


Obviously, MJ's defensive impact dwarfs Curry's - this is especially true against teams that have great perimeter players, since MJ can guard guys like Magic, Lebron, or Drexler, while Curry can only defend guys like Shumpert, Delly, etc.

There's a reason Curry didn't win FMVP in last year's Finals - he only did half the job, while Iggy did the other half (defense).

Otoh, MJ performed Iggy's duties on defense by guarding Magic/Drexler, while still having a goat offensive impact - Jordan's 2-way ability is why he has 6 FMVP's, compared to Curry's 0.



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:

Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c


Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%). [/SIZE]

I heard Curry was guarding Mozgov

[ImKobe]

He was at one point better than Kareem and Cooper, including the years that he was supposedly elite and got voted over. Gotcha. :oldlol:

Better DRTG, DWS and DBPM means nothing now?

Being a better defensive rebounder than most guards/forwards means nothing now?

By your logic, the top 3 defenders of all-time are

Duncan
Kobe
KG

and Kobe is tied for most first team defensive teams all-time with MJ, KG and GP

On other threads I see ISH say that defensive teams mean nothing, but in this case defensive teams mean everything and stats are bullshit :oldlol:

[bigkingsfan]

He didn't make a defensive team once. An award that is voted by coaches, no one acknowledged him as a elite defender, except you.

[Overdrive]

MJ can guard four different positions

Can Kareem do that?

Sure, Jordan guarded Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Kevin McHale, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp etc straight up. He took turns on Barkley, but he couldn't really handle him , although Barkley's his height.

[ImKobe]

He didn't make a defensive team once. An award that is voted by coaches, no one acknowledged him as a elite defender, except you.

I have stats to support my claims, what do you have?

[ImKobe]

Sure, Jordan guarded Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Kevin McHale, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp etc straight up. He took turns on Barkley, but he couldn't really handle him , although Barkley's his height.

Went and took Malone's cookie when it mattered the most and swished the winner.

GOAT.

[bigkingsfan]

You have a stat from the season where he played 37 games. Brilliant. :hammerhead:

[SpreeS]

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/spring-1991-los-angeles-lakers-magic-johnson-right-is-guarded-by-of-picture-id569162619


Jordan's GOAT two-way performance included being the primary defender on Magic - MJ guarded him for 14 of 20 quarters, which included holding Magic to 0-0-0 with 1 TO in critical Game 3 OT, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtj8ovhp48&t=6m04s).. (btw, Pippen missed that OT by fouling out - classic Pippen - MIA in the critical moments of the series).

The 1991 matchup pitted the regular season MVP winner (MJ) vs. the runner-up (Magic), and both guys were top 5 all-time players - this has never happened before.. But MJ dominated the goat matchup - here are their overall stats for the series:

JORDAN 1991 FINALS:. 33/7/11 on 56%
MAGIC.. 1991 FINALS:. 19/7/13 on 43%


Obviously, MJ's defensive impact dwarfs Curry's - this is especially true against teams that have great perimeter players, since MJ can guard guys like Magic, Lebron, or Drexler, while Curry can only defend guys like Shumpert, Delly, etc.

There's a reason Curry didn't win FMVP in last year's Finals - he only did half the job, while Iggy did the other half (defense).

Otoh, MJ performed Iggy's duties on defense by guarding Magic/Drexler, while still having a goat offensive impact - Jordan's 2-way ability is why he has 6 FMVP's, compared to Curry's 0.



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:

Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c


Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%). [/SIZE]

Please you look like idiot with this staff.

It simple and logical:

Pippen 6-7 on Worthy 6-9
Jordon 6-6 on Magic 6-8
Paxson 6-2 on Scott 6-3

it would be strange that Jordan would defend Worthy or Scott

[Overdrive]

Went and took Malone's cookie when it mattered the most and swished the winner.

GOAT.

So by that logic Curry can guard all 5 positions?

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

It simple and logical:

Pippen 6-7 on Worthy 6-9
Jordon 6-6 on Magic 6-8
Paxson 6-2 on Scott 6-3

it would be strange that Jordan would defend Worthy or Scott


Imagine if Curry replaced Jordan in 1991 Finals - the Bulls would've been fu.cked

Curry would guard Scott, but that would leave Paxson to guard Magic - so Pippen would guard Magic, but then who guards Worthy?

See what I'm saying?... The Bulls would've been screwed with Curry - he's is nowhere near Jordan.. Jordan was better on both ends, but his defensive advantage was actually quite monstrous..

[plowking]

I have stats to support my claims, what do you have?

He has historical evidence and facts.

[SpreeS]

Imagine if Curry replaced Jordan in 1991 Finals - the Bulls would've been fu.cked

Curry would guard Scott, but that would leave Paxson to guard Magic - so Pippen would guard Magic, but then who guards Worthy?

See what I'm saying?... The Bulls would've been screwed with Curry - he's is nowhere near Jordan.. Jordan was better on both ends, but his defensive advantage was actually quite monstrous..


Man, your logic is very strange. Why do you want repleace Jordan with Curry... SG with PG ??? What idiot GM would construct team with back court Curry and Paxson????

[Kiddlovesnets]

Hes not going to guard LBJ, Kawhi Leonard will guard LBJ in NBA finals while Curry watches from his TV.
:cheers:

[3ball]

Man, your logic is very strange. Why do you want repleace Jordan with Curry... SG with PG ??? What idiot GM would construct team with back court Curry and Paxson????


I'm pointing out that you couldn't replace Jordan with Curry, or the Bulls would be screwed.. They would've lost in 1991, and probably wouldn't win a single championship.

Otoh, if you replaced Curry with Jordan, the Warriors wouldn't be screwed obviously - they'd be much better.. His off-ball game would suit the Warriors' offense, while his rim-attack would cause the entire defense to cheat, thus spacing the floor better... Statistically, Jordan was involved in more possessions (usage) at higher per-possession efficiency (ORtg) - he simply DID MORE on offense, while also carrying a bigger load defensively as well..

Btw, Lebron doesn't have higher per-possession efficiency than Curry - ONLY JORDAN DOES.. Jordan's higher per possession efficiency was due primarily to lower turnovers, but also because his superior midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) efficiency partially offset Curry's 3-point efficiency.. Obviously, Lebron's turnovers are high, and he's midrange efficiency is horrible (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12338297&postcount=47).

[ImKobe]

He has historical evidence and facts.

And where are they? Where are those facts?

Facts show that there were multiple seasons where the Lakers allowed the least points per 100 possessions with Magic on the floor, facts show that Magic had seasons where his defense contributed more wins than anyone else's on the team, and he was playing with Kareem and Cooper, who are considered elite defensive players.

All he has to base his claims on is defensive teams, but if we go by defensive teams Kobe's top 3 all-time on defense. Is that true?

[tpols]

I feel bad for jordan fans tbh.

They never got to witness this level of alphaness before .. just a cheap imitation.

[TemporaMutantur]

Jordan wouldn't guard Lebron either, next.


This.

[diamenz]

op on meltdown.

after hearing about curry's performance last night of which everyone here can agree that he didn't even see, op is shook. get off mj's nuts and recognize greatness.

[ClipperRevival]

Pretty sure Magic is ahead of Curry in every defensive statistical category (dbpm, etc) other than steals.. This is because Magic was basically a big man on defense - he banged inside the lane, and naturally had a bigger defensive impact, JUST LIKE MOST BIGS OVER GUARDS.

Now if Curry was one of the top defenders at the point guard position, he would still have a greater defensive impact than bigs, for obvious, intuitive reasons (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12343906&postcount=21).... but he isn't.
.

Actually, most people don't know that Magic was pretty darn good at generating steals. Led the league twice (1981 and 1982) and in his first 5 years in the league, averaged 2.5 spg, which is ridiculous. Ended up averaging 1.9 spg for his career, which is impressive for a guy his size. Curry averages 1.8 spg for his career.

Magic wasn't a very good defender if you take away his height/size. He had very bad foot speed and lateral mobility.

[ClipperRevival]

Magic is an elite defender compared to Curry.

No he isn't. Take away Magic's natural height/size advantage over guys he guarded and what you had was a below average defender. Bad foot speed and bad lateral mobility. Two negatives for a defender.

Curry has improved a lot defensively. He has light feet and the quickness to stay with guys. Of course he could get manhandled by stronger guys but the most important aspect of D is the ability to keep your man in front of you and he can do that better than Magic.

[DingDengDong]

Another dumb post by the OP. Did Jordan guard Ewing?

[riseagainst]

How come MJ never guarded Shaq in 1995? Is that why they lost to the Magic?