2-pointers are more CONTESTED, so players were better in eras that shot more 2's

[3ball]

.
For example, the 10th highest vote-getter for MVP this year was Kyle Lowry, compared to Shaq in 1996 - that's incredibly watered down, and this type of mismatch is standard when looking at prior eras.



Today's watered down players and league shouldn't be a surprise: scorers are ranked as "good" because they can make contested shots, not open shots.. And 2-pointers are simply FAR more contested - certainly, most 2-pointers aren't taken with 4+ feet of room (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12316018&postcount=1) like the vast majority of today's 3-pointers.

Ultimately, the tighter contest on 2-pointers requires refined touch from midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12367120&postcount=12), and the lack of spacing created by 2-point shooting required thread-needle (https://media.giphy.com/media/14dxFSxmv135bG/giphy.gif) passing, quicker instincts (https://media.giphy.com/media/WaFRus5AZcR8c/giphy.gif) and decision-making (https://media.giphy.com/media/xVCegX3kISST6/giphy.gif), and also more sophisticated (https://media.giphy.com/media/xT4uQoN51xmHONisr6/giphy.gif) moves besides ball-domination (such as post (https://media.giphy.com/media/sMEYKXY5vSezK/giphy.gif), triple-threat (https://media.giphy.com/media/xT4uQwXCdJnRJ1PGrS/giphy.gif)).

Otoh, today's players master a much narrower skillset that requires less sophistication - specifically, they master the skills needed to execute screen-roll/drive-and-kick, since that's the preferred method of generating mass volume of 3-point shooting.

[NBAGOAT]

Pippen was 5th in MVP voting that year. I'm guessing you're finally admitting Pippen is a top 5 player in the league and better than Malone and Shaq :cheers:

[knicksman]

In the end, contested 3s are harder than contested 2s. Creating off the dribble>>post ups. And curry is shooting contested 3s off the dribble so that makes his game the most difficult to emulate. Theres no way hes winning 73 with that athleticism if he isnt better than jordan. So just let it go 3ball and just enjoy greatness

[3ball]

Pippen was 5th in MVP voting that year. I'm guessing you're finally admitting Pippen is a top 5 player in the league and better than Malone and Shaq :cheers:
There isn't a single player, coach or pundit that would tell you Pippen = Malone or Shaq.

MVP voting isn't a ranking of the players.. It's a function of how much help a player has - the Bulls talent after MJ and Pippen was weak compared to other teams, so Pippen's value was higher on the Bulls than various superior players, whose teams were more stacked.

The fact remains - if Shaq and Lowry both rank #10, then one era is super watered-down compared to the other

[NBAGOAT]

There isn't a single player, coach or pundit that would tell you Pippen is as good as Malone or Shaq.

MVP voting isn't a ranking of the players - it's a function of how much help a player has.. The Bulls had very little help after MJ and Pippen, so Pippen's value was higher on the Bulls than several superior players, whose teams were more stacked.

MVP voting isn't a ranking of the players, but if Shaq and Lowry both rank #10, then one era is super watered-down compared to the other

yes the greatest rebounder of all time and a 6th man who arguably had comparable impact to someone like Ginobli is very little help. :oldlol: Also thanks for refuting your own point; if mvp voting isn't a ranking of players stop treating shaq like he was only the 10th best player in the league which he was better than(more like fringe top 5).

[3ball]

.
Each stat is linked to NBA.COM:

Over 80% of today's 3-point attempts are "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "very open" (6+ feet) - as described by NBA.com:



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

LEAGUE-AVERAGE
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight).................... 4.1 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight)..................9.9 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open)..................9.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS .................1.7%................17.2%........ .....41.6%.............39.5%




Over 70% of Curry's 3-point attempts are either "open" (4-6 ft) or "very open" (6+ ft).. However, the league average is 80%, as shown above.



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

STEPH CURRY'S.
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season).................... 2.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..................5.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..................2.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS .................0.4%................ 26.1%.............45.9%.............24.3%

[3ball]

In the end, contested 3s are harder than contested 2s. Creating off the dribble>>post ups. And curry is shooting contested 3s off the dribble so that makes his game the most difficult to emulate.


NBA.com's stats in the previous post show that 70% of Curry's 3-pointers are "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "very open" (6+ feet).

So most of Curry's shots are OPEN... Jordan's 2-pointers were FAR more contested - obviously, 2-pointers aren't taken with 4+ feet of room like most of today's 3-pointers.

[theaussieguy]

meltdown

[knicksman]

NBA.com's stats in the previous post show that 70% of Curry's 3-pointers are "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "very open" (6+ feet).

So most of Curry's shots are OPEN... Jordan's 2-pointers were FAR more contested - obviously, 2-pointers aren't taken with 4+ feet of room like most of today's 3-pointers.

And he could shoot contested 3s, which jordan couldnt even make even if hes open. The game has advanced my friend.

[Klay 3D]

More like they were dumb as fck to not shoot 3s.

[sekachu]

And he could shoot contested 3s, which jordan couldnt even make even if hes open. The game has advanced my friend.



Players leaned to 3 pts in the past 10 years because as 3ball said, 3pts attempt is more easier than 2 pts. What curry did isn't something impossible for others to mimic. There will be another curry and i don't think there will be another Jordan.

[Nastradamus]

So players back then were dumb and inefficient, got it.

[AirBonner]

3 pointers are contested today :facepalm
And they are being made at a high rate. Just because they packed the paint back then does not mean the defense was better. Plus op has admitted to not watching present day basketball.

[Showtime80']

The kids have definitely taken over this site! Think about this virgins,

What's easier to develop and master:

A sophisticated post game like Kareem, Olajuwon, Worthy, McHale, Ewing, Moses etc...

Or become an overrated chucker like Harden, Llillard, Westbrick and pretty much the majority of today's small guards.

The first group of players TOOK YEARS to master the games they eventually dominated the league with.

Today, Kevin Love and DeMarcus Cousins learn how to chuck 3's over a SUMMER!!!

Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan are the two most dominant centers of the past 10 years and don't have TWO POST MOVES TO SAVE THEIR LIVES!!!!

Today's league is full of dumb millennial athletes that are taking the road of LESS RESISTANCE AND WORK and the rules ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO SO!

Guess why teams in the 80's didn't chuck 3's?!?! BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T NEED TO!!! They scored 110ppg with post ups, mid range and fast break games, all things that are BECOMING EXTINCT in the modern pathetic NBA.

[FKAri]

The kids have definitely taken over this site! Think about this virgins,

What's easier to develop and master:

A sophisticated post game like Kareem, Olajuwon, Worthy, McHale, Ewing, Moses etc...

Or become an overrated chucker like Harden, Llillard, Westbrick and pretty much the majority of today's small guards.

The first group of players TOOK YEARS to master the games they eventually dominated the league with.

Today, Kevin Love and DeMarcus Cousins learn how to chuck 3's over a SUMMER!!!

Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan are the two most dominant centers of the past 10 years and don't have TWO POST MOVES TO SAVE THEIR LIVES!!!!

Today's league is full of dumb millennial athletes that are taking the road of LESS RESISTANCE AND WORK and the rules ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO SO!

Guess why teams in the 80's didn't chuck 3's?!?! BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T NEED TO!!! They scored 110ppg with post ups, mid range and fast break games, all things that are BECOMING EXTINCT in the modern pathetic NBA.

The defenses were terrible. Players were just winging it out there. The offenses were terrible because again they were just winging it out there. Superstars dominated a league of scrubs. I'm talking about the 80's tho. The 90's saw a rapid improvement in defense. The offenses were still shit tho. "give the ball to X and get out of the way". Such sophistication. Much skill. wow!

[Showtime80']

LOL!!! One of today's top players, last year's PLAYER'S MVP James Harden literally had A HIGHLIGHT VIDEO of his unwillingness to play defense!!! Today's players are developed in the AAU sh!t for brains system which don't teach kids a DAMN THING about fundamentals and basketball IQ and then they go on to college for one year, don't do sh!t there and then take 2 to 3 years in the NBA to finally star playing SOME semblance of basketball. That's the never ending cycle of today's dumb raw NBA!

A lot of today's so called "superstars" would be scrubs in the 1980's. Check out the players in the 1988 all-star game, the best of the best:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilkins
Thomas
Moses
Ewing
Barkley
McHale
Cheeks
Kareem
Worthy
Olajuwon
Karl Malone
English
Drexler
Aguirre

That is the list in a 23 team league!!!!

Make the sorry list for this year's PATHETIC ALL STAR GAME in a 30 team league and don't forget to start out with DeRozen and Lowry!!! LOL!!!

Here's legendary Hubie Brown talking about the difference between the 80's SOPHISTICATED, SMART AND ARTISTIC basketball to today's soft crap fest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

And did I mention, THERE ARE NO MORE RIVALRIES!!!! Here are some of the rivalries in the 80's:

Celtics-Sixers
Sixers-Lakers
Lakers-Celtics
Celtics-Pistons
Pistons-Lakers
Bulls-Pistons

Name ONE rivalry in today's cream puff league that compares to any those?!?

[Stringer Bell]

More like they were dumb as fck to not shoot 3s.


3 pointers are contested today :facepalm
And they are being made at a high rate. Just because they packed the paint back then does not mean the defense was better. Plus op has admitted to not watching present day basketball.


It was just different. The percentages of three-pointers made has stayed pretty consistent.

Teams shot a lot more 3s once they brought the line in from 23'9 to 22 feet in 1994.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1994.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1995.html

Team league averages

1993-94: 270-811. 33%
1994-95: 450-1255. 36%
1995-96: 483-1316. 37%
1996-97: 496-1377. 36%

Then they changed in back in 1997 and the numbers went back down.

1997-98: 360-1042. 35%

But since then, there was a gradual increase, and the last few seasons has just taken off to crazy numbers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html

2012-13: 587-1636. 36%
2013-14: 635-1766. 36%
2014-15: 643-1838. 35%
2015-16: 698-1975. 35%

[Hey Yo]

Showtime80 =





http://orig11.deviantart.net/66b6/f/2010/180/f/a/rageface_by_audunkun.jpg

[PP34Deuce]

Players of the last 10 years are realizing their shelf life increases with a 3 point shot.

As much as these guys play for the love of the game, they also must enjoy making 8-15 mill a year til they are 40.

Ray Allen was always a great shooter but he didn't stop "driving" until he realized the advantage of just playing D and hitting a 3.

Paul Pierce used to be top 5-7 in FTA before he realized the 3 puts less burden on his body.

Curry before his serious ankle injuries, used to try and get in the paint and get hurt. He became Godly at 3 point shooting after that first injury that almost derailed his career.

[NBAGOAT]

LOL!!! One of today's top players, last year's PLAYER'S MVP James Harden literally had A HIGHLIGHT VIDEO of his unwillingness to play defense!!! Today's players are developed in the AAU sh!t for brains system which don't teach kids a DAMN THING about fundamentals and basketball IQ and then they go on to college for one year, don't do sh!t there and then take 2 to 3 years in the NBA to finally star playing SOME semblance of basketball. That's the never ending cycle of today's dumb raw NBA!

A lot of today's so called "superstars" would be scrubs in the 1980's. Check out the players in the 1988 all-star game, the best of the best:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilkins
Thomas
Moses
Ewing
Barkley
McHale
Cheeks
Kareem
Worthy
Olajuwon
Karl Malone
English
Drexler
Aguirre

That is the list in a 23 team league!!!!

Make the sorry list for this year's PATHETIC ALL STAR GAME in a 30 team league and don't forget to start out with DeRozen and Lowry!!! LOL!!!

Here's legendary Hubie Brown talking about the difference between the 80's SOPHISTICATED, SMART AND ARTISTIC basketball to today's soft crap fest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JttE4UT74k

And did I mention, THERE ARE NO MORE RIVALRIES!!!! Here are some of the rivalries in the 80's:

Celtics-Sixers
Sixers-Lakers
Lakers-Celtics
Celtics-Pistons
Pistons-Lakers
Bulls-Pistons

Name ONE rivalry in today's cream puff league that compares to any those?!?

every era has someone like harden. How can you call yourself an 80's fan and forget how bad Adrian Dantley was on defense.

[Showtime80']

LOL!!! Nice drawing Hey Yo!!! Had a similar one on the bottom of my surfboard a couple of years ago.

And that is my point exactly PP3Deuce, the league has become soft thanks to the rules and the salaries have definitely altered the perception on how to play the game. Why would Dwight HOward and DeAndre Jordan want to learn the basic fundamentals of post play and free throw shooting while teams are lining themselves up to offer them 90 million dollars?!?! Where is the incentive to master all the nuances of the game where you can be called "great" shooting 16-54 FG% and 7-26 from 3point range like Lillard did for this last two games!

And NBAGoat NEVER AGAIN compare James Harden to Adrian Dantley!!! AD was not Dennis Rodman on defense by any means but on the offensive end he was A CONSISTENT EFFICIENT BEAST!!! From 18 feet in he was almost automatic shooting close to 58% FG for a couple of years and having ENDLESS array of moves to get off easy shots. Had the refs not called a foul on Kareem in game 6 of the 1988 Finals, AD would've been the Finals MVP and would've probably won two more titles with the Pistons after that.

James Harden is an overrated ballhog who kills offensive flow of the offense and is increasingly making worse decisions with the basketball and he will NEVER get to the Finals as the NUMBER ONE option let alone win a title.

[FKAri]

LOL!!! Nice drawing Hey Yo!!! Had a similar one on the bottom of my surfboard a couple of years ago.

And that is my point exactly PP3Deuce, the league has become soft thanks to the rules and the salaries have definitely altered the perception on how to play the game. Why would Dwight HOward and DeAndre Jordan want to learn the basic fundamentals of post play and free throw shooting while teams are lining themselves up to offer them 90 million dollars?!?! Where is the incentive to master all the nuances of the game where you can be called "great" shooting 16-54 FG% and 7-26 from 3point range like Lillard did for this last two games!

And NBAGoat NEVER AGAIN compare James Harden to Adrian Dantley!!! AD was not Dennis Rodman on defense by any means but on the offensive end he was A CONSISTENT EFFICIENT BEAST!!! From 18 feet in he was almost automatic shooting close to 58% FG for a couple of years and having ENDLESS array of moves to get off easy shots. Had the refs not called a foul on Kareem in game 6 of the 1988 Finals, AD would've been the Finals MVP and would've probably won two more titles with the Pistons after that.

James Harden is an overrated ballhog who kills offensive flow of the offense and is increasingly making worse decisions with the basketball and he will NEVER get to the Finals as the NUMBER ONE option let alone win a title.

Adrian Dantley was Carmelo Anthony

[Hey Yo]

every era has someone like harden. How can you call yourself an 80's fan and forget how bad Adrian Dantley was on defense.
A better comparison of an 80's player to Harden would be World B. Free

[Cap'n Obvious]

The OP likes to tailor arguments to benefit Michael Jordan.

[ClipperRevival]

Players of the last 10 years are realizing their shelf life increases with a 3 point shot.

As much as these guys play for the love of the game, they also must enjoy making 8-15 mill a year til they are 40.

Ray Allen was always a great shooter but he didn't stop "driving" until he realized the advantage of just playing D and hitting a 3.

Paul Pierce used to be top 5-7 in FTA before he realized the 3 puts less burden on his body.

Curry before his serious ankle injuries, used to try and get in the paint and get hurt. He became Godly at 3 point shooting after that first injury that almost derailed his career.

Umm no, it's called age. You lose your quickness as you age and you just can't get by guys like you used to. So they find their niche. It's not like they CHOOSE to do so.