Donald Trump vs. Fred Trump. Who was the better businessman?

[Heilige]

Who do you feel was the better businessman between Donald and his father Fred Trump?

Fred started the business and Donald built it into something greater.

[DonDadda59]

Who do you feel was the better businessman between Donald and his father Fred Trump?

Fred started the business and Donald built it into something greater.

No he didn't. Why do you think he refuses to release his tax records. Dude is the ultimate fraud.

Fred FTW.

[FillJackson]

Who do you feel was the better businessman between Donald and his father Fred Trump?

Fred started the business and Donald built it into something greater.

I would say Fred had the harder job. Donald is not self made. He's third generation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization#Origin_of_Elizabeth_Trump_. 26_Son) in the real estate business. Fred's father died during the flu pandemic in 1918 when Fred was still a teenager. He then worked with his mother to keep the real estate business going and built it. His father left an estate of $31,000 Fred Trump left an estate of 250-300 million.

Also even into the late 80's even though Donald Trump was the head of Trump organization for like 15 years, he couldn't close a deal by himself. Fred Trump cosigned the loans because Donald didn't have collateral to justify the credit risk. Banks would not do the deals without Fred Trump's signature. And of course, Trump's AC operations went bankrupt shortly afterwards.

Fred Trump by being a nasty SOB made Donald into what he is today, someone still trying to feed the hole his father left inside him.

[Heilige]

I would say Fred had the harder job. Donald is not self made. He's third generation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization#Origin_of_Elizabeth_Trump_. 26_Son) in the real estate business. Fred's father died during the flu pandemic in 1918 when Fred was still a teenager. He then worked with his mother to keep the real estate business going and built it. His father left an estate of $31,000 Fred Trump left an estate of 250-300 million.

Also even into the late 80's even though Donald Trump was the head of Trump organization for like 15 years, he couldn't close a deal by himself. Fred Trump cosigned the loans because Donald didn't have collateral to justify the credit risk. Banks would not do the deals without Fred Trump's signature. And of course, Trump's AC operations went bankrupt shortly afterwards.

Fred Trump by being a nasty SOB made Donald into what he is today, someone still trying to feed the hole his father left inside him.


Didn't say Donald was self made. He turned millions of dollars into billions. How many of us could do that?

That sounds very interesting; that last statement. Could you elaborate on it? Why do you feel he has a hole that his father left inside him?

Arnold Schwarzenegger also had a nasty SOB as a father.

[FillJackson]

Didn't say Donald was self made. He turned millions of dollars into billions. How many of us could do that? People who own 100 million of dollars of NYC real estate several decades ago are among the folks who can do that. I stand by the point that what Fred did was harder, he built an empire. Donald changed the path/focus of that empire.


That sounds very interesting; that last statement. Could you elaborate on it? Why do you feel he has a hole that his father left inside him?

Arnold Schwarzenegger also had a nasty SOB as a father.
Trump is very, very narcissistic and obsessed with fame and success. If he's worth 300 million he has to say he's a billionaire. If he's worth 1.5 billion he has to say he's worth $10 billion. The LeFrak family is also a NYC real estate empire that started by building middle class housing. The son is a long time friend of Donald's and also a multi-billionaire. However, he never decided he needed a publicist who would get him in the gossip columns all the time. Something inside Trump made him obsessed with becoming a celebrity. He has this need that at 69 years of age he still can't quench. Most people don't have that. Think of how much of his political speeches are about his own polls. It's weird. It's a genuine need of his.

Trump's father was basically A Great Santini type who never showed any affection for his sons. Toughness was valued over wisdom and what we know call "emotional intelligence." Think of how good is he at fighting with opponents, that's because he grew up fighting with his dad. Fred Trump was described an Old-world Prussian in his outlook, perfectionistic and harsh. The only allowable emotions you could show were aggressive ones. He offered "abundant criticism and stingy praise" is how the NY Times put it. Donald Trump was not originally the heir apparent to the real estate empire, that was Fred Trump Jr. He didn't deal well with the pressure and didn't particularly like the real estate business and he died in his 40's from alcoholism when Fred Trump Sr died his grandkids from Fred Jr were left out of the will.

Politico just did a roundtable with 5 Trump biographers, you should read that if you want to see what makes him tick.

[FillJackson]

Other examples of the hole/need

Trump claims to have written the number selling business book of all time.

He's obsessed with his combover and not looking like Fred Trump

http://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Dad-and-Donald.jpg

Once you see this neediness in Trump it becomes the lens you view him through. You see it coloring his actions all the time.

[Heilige]

People who own 100 million of dollars of NYC real estate several decades ago are among the folks who can do that. I stand by the point that what Fred did was harder, he built an empire. Donald changed the path/focus of that empire.


Trump is very, very narcissistic and obsessed with fame and success. If he's worth 300 million he has to say he's a billionaire. If he's worth 1.5 billion he has to say he's worth $10 billion. The LeFrak family is also a NYC real estate empire that started by building middle class housing. The son is a long time friend of Donald's and also a multi-billionaire. However, he never decided he needed a publicist who would get him in the gossip columns all the time. Something inside Trump made him obsessed with becoming a celebrity. He has this need that at 69 years of age he still can't quench. Most people don't have that. Think of how much of his political speeches are about his own polls. It's weird. It's a genuine need of his.

Trump's father was basically A Great Santini type who never showed any affection for his sons. Toughness was valued over wisdom and what we know call "emotional intelligence." Think of how good is he at fighting with opponents, that's because he grew up fighting with his dad. Fred Trump was described an Old-world Prussian in his outlook, perfectionistic and harsh. The only allowable emotions you could show were aggressive ones. He offered "abundant criticism and stingy praise" is how the NY Times put it. Donald Trump was not originally the heir apparent to the real estate empire, that was Fred Trump Jr. He didn't deal well with the pressure and didn't particularly like the real estate business and he died in his 40's from alcoholism when Fred Trump Sr died his grandkids from Fred Jr were left out of the will.

Politico just did a roundtable with 5 Trump biographers, you should read that if you want to see what makes him tick.


Good post, I see what you mean now. :applause: :applause:

Between Fred Trump, Mitt Romney and Joseph Kennedy Sr. how would you rank/compare them as businessmen?

[Heilige]

Other examples of the hole/need

Trump claims to have written the number selling business book of all time.

He's obsessed with his combover and not looking like Fred Trump

http://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Dad-and-Donald.jpg

Once you see this neediness in Trump it becomes the lens you view him through. You see it coloring his actions all the time.


Gotcha, thanks for explaining. Would you say Arnold Schwarzenegger is similar to Donald in anyway because of his upbringing?

[Nikola_]

Heilige...you serious?

whats up with all these threads?

[Heilige]

Heilige...you serious?

whats up with all these threads?


why do you have a problem with the threads I'm making?

[FillJackson]

Good post, I see what you mean now. :applause: :applause:

Between Fred Trump, Mitt Romney and Joseph Kennedy Sr. how would you rank/compare them as businessmen?

I have no idea. If I needed a modern manager, I'd probably pick Romney. If I needed things imported from Canada, I'd pick Kennedy.

[NumberSix]

I would say Fred had the harder job. Donald is not self made. He's third generation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization#Origin_of_Elizabeth_Trump_. 26_Son) in the real estate business. Fred's father died during the flu pandemic in 1918 when Fred was still a teenager. He then worked with his mother to keep the real estate business going and built it. His father left an estate of $31,000 Fred Trump left an estate of 250-300 million.
Donald Trump was a billionaire long before his father died. Whatever he inherited upon his father's death was irrelevant to the wealth he had already amassed to that point.

I don't know what you guys think you're achieving by being such haters. Do you think you're actually convincing people that Trump isn't actually a successful business man?

People lose all rationality when you talk about this guy. You hear fools say things like "Trump isn't a good business man. He isn't REALLY worth $10 billion like he says. He's only worth like $4 billion". Like, wow. ONLY $4 billion. What an epic loser.

The guy is obviously a very successful business man. On The Apprentice alone, he made $213 million. That alone is like the entire net worth of filthy rich Mitt Romney. It just looks stupid trying to argue that this guy hasn't been an epic success.

[FillJackson]

Donald Trump was a billionaire long before his father died. Whatever he inherited upon his father's death was irrelevant to the wealth he had already amassed to that point.
Donald claimed to be a billionaire for decades when he was not.

A trust was setup well before the father's death.

An author had several experts look into his wealth for a 2005 book and they concluded he was worth around $200 million. Donald sued and under oath he admitted he made up stories about how much he was worth. (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431575/donald-trump-tim-obrien-courtroom-story)


I don't know what you guys think you're achieving by being such haters. Do you think you're actually convincing people that Trump isn't actually a successful business man?

People lose all rationality when you talk about this guy. You hear fools say things like "Trump isn't a good business man. He isn't REALLY worth $10 billion like he says. He's only worth like $4 billion". Like, wow. ONLY $4 billion. What an epic loser. Donald Trump doesn't claim to successful. He claims to be singularly successful, better than anyone at what he does, just a spectacular, tremendous success, tremendously successful. I don't know if you met him, but Princess Diana and Madonna wanted to date him. They called his office asking for him, he was a tremendously successful dater as you know. Had the best casinos in the world, have you been? The Trump Taj Mahal? Spectacular. Tremendous. The Best.

He's a con man and a congenital liar.


The guy is obviously a very successful business man. On The Apprentice alone, he made $213 million. That alone is like the entire net worth of filthy rich Mitt Romney. It just looks stupid trying to argue that this guy hasn't been an epic success. Where did you get that number from? I bet it wasn't NBC.

He could shut up a lot of people by doing something very simple. Release his tax returns.

[NumberSix]

Donald claimed to be a billionaire for decades when he was not.

A trust was setup well before the father's death.

An author had several experts look into his wealth for a 2005 book and they concluded he was worth around $200 million. Donald sued and under oath he admitted he made up stories about how much he was worth. (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431575/donald-trump-tim-obrien-courtroom-story)

Donald Trump doesn't claim to successful. He claims to be singularly successful, better than anyone at what he does, just a spectacular, tremendous success, tremendously successful. I don't know if you met him, but Princess Diana and Madonna wanted to date him. They called his office asking for him, he was a tremendously successful dater as you know. Had the best casinos in the world, have you been? The Trump Taj Mahal? Spectacular. Tremendous. The Best.

He's a con man and a congenital liar.

Where did you get that number from? I bet it wasn't NBC.

He could shut up a lot of people by doing something very simple. Release his tax returns.
Let's just make this very simple. Do you believe that Donald Trump is a billionaire or are you one of these loons that actually believes that he just pretends that he is?

[FillJackson]

or are you one of these loons that actually believes that he just pretends that he is?

Why is that being a loon when the guy has a multi-decade track record of lying about his wealth?

My position is, is he currently lying about his wealth? Yes, absolutely.

He is currently a billionaire? Could be.

[FillJackson]

He doesn't want to release his tax returns and the voters should hold that against him.

[NumberSix]

He doesn't want to release his tax returns and the voters should hold that against him.
What are you more concerned about? Trump not wanting to release his taxes or Hillary not wanting people to know what she said in her Wall Street speeches?

IMO, Trump doesn't want to release his taxes because he probably doesn't claim anything as personal income.

I remember people were praising Mark Zuckerberg because he only pays himself a salary of $1 per yer. Aka.... He doesn't pay any taxes. My guess is Trump does the same. All money is made by the Trump organization, which pays a lower corporate tax rate. All money and assets are owned by The Trump Organization which is owned by Trump. His kids probably don't claim any personal income either.

[Heilige]

Donald claimed to be a billionaire for decades when he was not.

A trust was setup well before the father's death.

An author had several experts look into his wealth for a 2005 book and they concluded he was worth around $200 million. Donald sued and under oath he admitted he made up stories about how much he was worth. (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431575/donald-trump-tim-obrien-courtroom-story)

Donald Trump doesn't claim to successful. He claims to be singularly successful, better than anyone at what he does, just a spectacular, tremendous success, tremendously successful. I don't know if you met him, but Princess Diana and Madonna wanted to date him. They called his office asking for him, he was a tremendously successful dater as you know. Had the best casinos in the world, have you been? The Trump Taj Mahal? Spectacular. Tremendous. The Best.

He's a con man and a congenital liar.

Where did you get that number from? I bet it wasn't NBC.

He could shut up a lot of people by doing something very simple. Release his tax returns.



I think Fred was the better businessman but at the very least are you willing to admit Donald Trump is intelligent when it comes to real estate or business at all? I read that thing that Politico had with the 5 Trump biographers, very interesting! They said they thought Trump was good until after Trump Tower was built. From there, he did a lot of bad deals, etc. It just seems to me, maybe I'm mistaken, that you aren't willing to give Trump any credit towards whatever success he has achieved in his life.

Have you read any of those 5 books? If so, which ones are the best in your view?


Also, have you watched these videos. Trump comes across as intelligent to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_mfbjbAtYo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx651fvHMPo

[DonDadda59]

What are you more concerned about? Trump not wanting to release his taxes or Hillary not wanting people to know what she said in her Wall Street speeches?

IMO, Trump doesn't want to release his taxes because he probably doesn't claim anything as personal income.

I remember people were praising Mark Zuckerberg because he only pays himself a salary of $1 per yer. Aka.... He doesn't pay any taxes. My guess is Trump does the same. All money is made by the Trump organization, which pays a lower corporate tax rate. All money and assets are owned by The Trump Organization which is owned by Trump. His kids probably don't claim any personal income either.


You can see like 3 of her speeches on youtube. :confusedshrug:

[FillJackson]

What are you more concerned about? Trump not wanting to release his taxes or Hillary not wanting people to know what she said in her Wall Street speeches?

The Hillary thing is an absolute nonissue and not a standard any other presidential candidate has been asked to do.

Every Presidential candidate since Nixon has released their tax returns, most have released multiple years returns like Clinton has. This is an expected standard and Trump wants to dodge it.

There is zero parallelism here.

[NumberSix]

The Hillary thing is an absolute nonissue and not a standard any other presidential candidate has been asked to do.

Every Presidential candidate since Nixon has released their tax returns, most have released multiple years returns like Clinton has. This is an expected standard and Trump wants to dodge it.

There is zero parallelism here.
There's no requirement to do either.

Why is it that you aren't interested in what she said to the people that are giving her millions of dollars? There's clearly something that will make her look bad. Her credibility has taken a hit from refusing to release the transcripts. She's not taking that hit because the transcripts will make her look too good.

I have no doubts that Trump is involved in massive tax dodging that will make him look bad. I also have no doubts that Hillary was pandering to Wall Street in a way that will look really bad.

[DonDadda59]

There's no requirement to do either.

Why is it that you aren't interested in what she said to the people that are giving her millions of dollars? There's clearly something that will make her look bad. Her credibility has taken a hit from refusing to release the transcripts. She's not taking that hit because the transcripts will make her look too good.

I have no doubts that Trump is involved in massive tax dodging that will make him look bad. I also have no doubts that Hillary was pandering to Wall Street in a way that will look really bad.

Hillary's Speech to Wall Street (Nasdaq) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXha_AJv_B0)

Boiled Down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUhWGBYhKo0)

[nathanjizzle]

fred and its not even close. trump started his career with hundreds of millions in his lap and a practice to follow. his dad created the brand and foundation. this is not even a legit comparison.

[Trollsmasher]

Frederich Trump was the real pimp:rockon:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Frederick_Trump.jpg

[NumberSix]

fred and its not even close. trump started his career with hundreds of millions in his lap and a practice to follow. his dad created the brand and foundation. this is not even a legit comparison.
Repeatedly saying it won't make it true. Asking this is like asking "Who was a better player? Kobe or Jellybean Joe?"

[FillJackson]

There's no requirement to do either.
Which is why I said standard.

There is a standard that candidates release their taxes.
The release your speeches is just a way of making a candidate dance.

The speech is who are not paid by the quality of your speech. You are paid by social cachet you bring. You are worth more if the people in the audience can name drop a big name. Michael Lewis gets $100,000 a speech

[QUOTE]

[NumberSix]

Which is why I said standard.

There is a standard that candidates release their taxes.
The release your speeches is just a way of making a candidate dance.

The speech is who are not paid by the quality of your speech. You are paid by social cachet you bring. You are worth more if the people in the audience can name drop a big name. Michael Lewis gets $100,000 a speech



It's a very big market. I know someone who books cooking events. You certainly pay more for someone who's been on The Food Network than a very good local chef who hasn't.
Do chefs who have been on the food network try to keep their speeches secret?

I'm not concerned with how much she got paid. I promise you, I couldn't care less. I'm not even really concerned with what she said. It's not like I think she was standing there saying "with your money, I will trick the voters and we will rule the world, mwuhahahahaha".


But, I do think she pandered to them to an embarrassing degree. Probably telling them shit like they're the true victims and that they don't get the appreciation and respect that they deserve. And that's fine too. I don't even care if she pandered to big financial interests. But she does. She knows she'll look super sleazy.

[Jailblazers7]

This article is a pretty good indication of him as a person and businessman.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-01-27/donald-trump-s-track-record-on-deals