2012 Miami Heat vs. 1991 Chicago Bulls

[Lebron23]

Who do you think wins in a best of 7 series? LeBron winning his first Finals MVP at aged 27 while MJ winning his first Finals MVP at aged 28.

2012 Miami Heat

G-Mario Chalmers
G-Dwyane Wade
F-Lebron James
F-Chris Bosh
C-Joel Anthony

1991 Chicago Bulls

G - John Paxson
G - Michael Jordan
F - Scottie Pippen
F - Horace Grant
C - Bill Cartwright

[Meticode]

Well you already f*cked up the thread.

[Lebron23]

Well you already f*cked up the thread.


Thank God I edited it. :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: That's the problem being a player fan.

[imnew09]

Lebron would clamp his v@gina and take his talents to Chicago

[fourkicks44]

TBH by 2012 the Heat had changed the NBA and not for the better. The weak calls they got, protection from the refs, the fact a defender could not get within 5 feet of Wade or Lebron with our getting a foul called on them.

MJ and the Bulls got some favourable calls in their primes, no doubt. But in 1991 they did not command that sort of favouritism from the officials that they did after their first three peat.

Real talk, think on it.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's obvious. Bulls win. Only because that 2012 team.... Essentially LeBron and scrubs.

[Smoke117]

Get off Lebron's dick fakkot...the 91 Pippen led Bulls would have raped any iteration of Lebrick's teams.

[brownmamba00]

dude said 2012 cleveland :lol

[ImKobe]

Bulls win, obviously. You have Pippen/Jordan/Grant to lock down the big 3 and we know that prime MJ never got shut down or had multiple off nights in a series. Lebron's jumper was also broken for all but the Boston Game 6 that Playoff run so you could obviously dare him to beat you from outside in a 7 game series but Jordan/Pippen are athletic/strong enough to play solid defense on James.

[Smoke117]

Bulls win, obviously. You have Pippen/Jordan/Grant to lock down the big 3 and we know that prime MJ never got shut down or had multiple off nights in a series. Lebron's jumper was also broken for all but the Boston Game 6 that Playoff run so you could obviously dare him to beat you from outside in a 7 game series but Jordan/Pippen are athletic/strong enough to play solid defense on James.

Uhh...Jordan was garbage in the 93 series vs the knicks and the 96 series vs the sonics. It's a myth that Jordan was never bad in a series.

[Lebron23]

Miami in 6. LeBron would out play Scottie Pippen in the NBA Finals. Wade was still putting up 23/4/5/and 1.7 spg in the playoffs.

LeBron averaged 30/9/7/and almost 2 spg in the 2012 NBA Playoffs. And that was also his 2nd best defensive season.

[Reggie43]

'12 Heat was such a flawed team despite having Wade and Lebron. 91 Bulls take them out in 5-6 games.

[ImKobe]

Uhh...Jordan was garbage in the 93 series vs the knicks and the 96 series vs the sonics. It's a myth that Jordan was never bad in a series.

96 is prime MJ now?

And he averaged 32/6/7/3/1 with 2 turnovers per game vs Knicks on 40% shooting with 40% from 3, that's supposed to be garbage now? If he was garbage against the Knicks then Lebron was garbage in 2012 and 2013 Finals :oldlol:

Knicks had the chance to go up 3 - 2 in the series but Jordan had 29/10/14 on 46% shooting Game 5 and they closed it out at home. Yes he shot 33% in Game 6 but had 9 assists 3 steals 2 blocks and only 1 turnover :confusedshrug:

When his shot was off, he was passing the ball and not turning it over while also playing elite defense
That was also the series he dropped 54 on them :bowdown:

And this is the worst series you can point out from prime Jordan's 3-peat run. A series where he drops 54 on 60% and has a triple-double the next game.

[Gileraracer]

Bulls in 4 with ease

[Lebron23]

96 is prime MJ now?

And he averaged 32/6/7/3/1 with 2 turnovers per game vs Knicks on 40% shooting with 40% from 3, that's supposed to be garbage now? If he was garbage against the Knicks then Lebron was garbage in 2012 and 2013 Finals :oldlol:

Knicks had the chance to go up 3 - 2 in the series but Jordan had 29/10/14 on 46% shooting Game 5 and they closed it out at home. Yes he shot 33% in Game 6 but had 9 assists 3 steals 2 blocks and only 1 turnover :confusedshrug:

When his shot was off, he was passing the ball and not turning it over while also playing elite defense
That was also the series he dropped 54 on them :bowdown:

And this is the worst series you can point out from prime Jordan's 3-peat run. A series where he drops 54 on 60% and has a triple-double the next game.


Lebron put up much better numbers in the 2015 NBA Finals, but two of his all star teammates players were injured. 2015 Warriors > 1993 New York Knicks.

Pippen averaged 23 ppg on 51 FG%, 6.7 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.8 spg, and 0.5 bpg against the 1993 Knicks.

[ImKobe]

Lebron put up much better numbers in the 2015 NBA Finals, but two of his all star teammates players were injured. 2015 Warriors > 1993 New York Knicks.

Pippen averaged 23 ppg on 51 FG%, 6.7 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.8 spg, and 0.5 bpg against the 1993 Knicks.

And that's supposed to be better? Jordan averaged more points, more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks and turned the ball over less (14 turnovers to 24 compared to Pippen in the series)

Lebron took 33 shots to average 36 ppg on 48%TS, under 40% from the field and averaged over 3 turnovers per game while being a liability in clutch situations and getting locked down by Iggy in 4th quarters. Jordan took 7 less shots per game to average 4 less points, and unlike Lebron he actually had a 50-point game in that series.

and I said 2012 and 2013 Finals, this was a debate about 91 MJ versus 2012 Lebron if their teams met, not about Cleveland Lebron hogging the ball and losing a Playoff series that he had no business being in.

91 Jordan absolutely destroyed the league

swept the Knicks
swept the bad boy Pistons
lost one game the whole EC Playoffs in a 2pt loss @Philly though he had 46 points in that game
91 Bulls were 15 - 2 in the Playoffs, 2nd most dominant Playoff run to 01 Lakers. The two losses were 1 possession games that the Bulls should have won since Jordan went off on them.

Lebron doesn't come close, doesn't matter which Finals/Championship run of his you can come up with. Jordan was always that much better.

You realize Jordan averaged 31/7/11 on 56% shooting against the Lakers in the '91 Finals, and that ain't even his best Finals/Playoff series :oldlol:

[Angel Face]

A team with an absolute prime MJ. Not a bad choice.

[Lebron23]

And that's supposed to be better? Jordan averaged more points, more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks and turned the ball over less (14 turnovers to 24 compared to Pippen in the series)

Lebron took 33 shots to average 36 ppg on 48%TS, under 40% from the field and averaged over 3 turnovers per game while being a liability in clutch situations and getting locked down by Iggy in 4th quarters. Jordan took 7 less shots per game to average 4 less points, and unlike Lebron he actually had a 50-point game in that series.

and I said 2012 and 2013 Finals, this was a debate about 91 MJ versus 2012 Lebron if their teams met, not about Cleveland Lebron hogging the ball and losing a Playoff series that he had no business being in.

91 Jordan absolutely destroyed the league

swept the Knicks
swept the bad boy Pistons
lost one game the whole EC Playoffs in a 2pt loss @Philly though he had 46 points in that game
91 Bulls were 15 - 2 in the Playoffs, 2nd most dominant Playoff run to 01 Lakers. The two losses were 1 possession games that the Bulls should have won since Jordan went off on them.

Lebron doesn't come close, doesn't matter which Finals/Championship run of his you can come up with. Jordan was always that much better.

You realize Jordan averaged 31/7/11 on 56% shooting against the Lakers in the '91 Finals, and that ain't even his best Finals/Playoff series :oldlol:


2012 OKC Thunder > 1991 Lakers. Durant, Westbrook, and Harden > HIV Positive Magic, Worthy, and Divac

[ImKobe]

2012 OKC Thunder > 1991 Lakers. Durant, Westbrook, and Harden > HIV Positive Magic, Worthy, and Divac

Perhaps. But Jordan dropped 63 in a Playoff game on the prime Celtics squad and that team had no one else to key in on but him

you think Miami would have stopped him from dominating? Heat loved to play small, Jordan would destroy their defense. At least Knicks had Ewing to stop MJ from scoring as often at the rim. Bosh ain't gonna stop prime MJ :oldlol:

And Pippen/Jordan are the two best defensive players at their position all-time, you think they would have trouble guarding Wade and Bron? 91 Lakers at least had Divac, Perkins and A.C Green.

Magic wasn't HIV positive in the Finals, he averaged a damn near triple double, problem for them was that Worthy wasn't healthy but their front court produced.

KD couldn't defend James in the 2012 Finals and Harden played like trash, Westbrook was chucking the ball and wasn't a good playmaker in that series and cost them Game 4 with the stupid foul on Chalmers and Durant got robbed in Game 2..

[Showtime80']

Oh my God!!!

A healthy 1991 Lakers team DEMOLISHES the 2012 Thunder for God's sake. That team was very talented with Magic (still top 3 player in NBA), Worthy, Scott, Green, Perkins, Divac and an up and coming Elden Campbell. Aside from Durant (Who is no Jordan), what else are the Thunder coming with? Dumber and more immature versions of Westbrook and Harden?

They also got out of the 1991 West which was LOADED with Drexler's Blazers (Best record in NBA), Robinson's Spurs, Hakeem's Rockets, Malone/Stockton Jazz, KG/CHambers Suns and Run TMC Warriors!

They 1991 Lakers just ran into possibly the hungriest version of Michael Jordan at his absolute peak during the Finals!

[Da_Realist]

1991 Bulls. I don't think this is much of a question. The Dobermans creating havoc defensively. MJ at his peak. Pippen making Lebron's life absolutely miserable (This is the same guy that picked up Magic full court, turning him around and cutting off his vision). Big bodies that rebounded and defended the paint plus MJ and Pippen were good rebounders themselves.

I don't see how Miami could hurt the Bulls. Lebron would score but not efficiently. Same with Wade. This Bulls defense was all over the court. Miami would get outrebounded which would lead to more opportunities for the Bulls -- a young, athletic, hungry Bulls team hardened by years of battles with the Pistons. 5 games.

[ClipperRevival]

Once MJ figured out how to play the right way and win championships, he didn't lose. He's not about to lose to a flopping, colluding and attention seeking diva like LeBron. When MJ lost, he lost to truly GOAT level teams like the Bad Boy Pistons or the mid 80's Celtics along with the ultra underrated 80's Bucks teams. Other than that, he didn't lose in the playoffs.

[bigkingsfan]

Once MJ figured out how to play the right way and win championships, he didn't lose. He's not about to lose to a flopping, colluding and attention seeking diva like LeBron. When MJ lost, he lost to truly GOAT level teams like the Bad Boy Pistons or the mid 80's Celtics along with the ultra underrated 80's Bucks teams. Other than that, he didn't lose in the playoffs.
Magic say hi

[ClipperRevival]

Magic say hi

And your argument would hold weight if MJ didn't win nothing after 1995 but we know what happened. That just PROVES that in 1995, MJ didn't have his bball legs, his feel for the game or the proper time needed to build that chemistry with his teammates on the court. And don't mention his 55 point game. Having 1 great game is not the same as the factors I listed.

[bigkingsfan]

He lost, end of story.

[ClipperRevival]

He lost, end of story.

82 regular season games played in 1990-91 = Champs
80 regular season games played in 1991-92 = Champs
78 regular season games played in 1992-93 = Champs
17 regular season games played in 1994-95 = 2nd rd exit
82 regular season games played in 1995-96 = Champs
82 regular season games played in 1996-97 = Champs
82 regular season games played in 1997-98 = Champs

:hammertime:

[bigkingsfan]

Once MJ figured out how to play the right way and win championships, he didn't lose.

1994-95 = 2nd rd exit
:durantunimpressed:

[Lebron23]

He lost, end of story.


This

Shaq and Penny eliminated them.

[riseagainst]

2012 Cleveland Cavaliers

:roll:

[ImKobe]

This

Shaq and Penny eliminated them.

And swept them the next year.

95 Bulls had a Jordan who missed almost 2 full seasons of basketball, who wasn't in shape, not to mention the fact that they lost Horace Grant before the season, who joined Orlando so they had no interior defense. :rolleyes:

[Lebron23]

:durantunimpressed:



Conference Semifinals

(1) Orlando Magic vs. (5) Chicago Bulls: Magic win series 4-2

Game 1 @ Orlando Arena, Orlando (May 7): Orlando 94, Chicago 91 (Nick Anderson's clutch steal off Michael Jordan, leading to his comments on Jordan's jersey number 45, saying he thought Jordan was playing like a 45-year-old.)
Game 2 @ Orlando Arena, Orlando (May 10): Chicago 104, Orlando 94
Game 3 @ United Center, Chicago (May 12): Orlando 110, Chicago 101
Game 4 @ United Center, Chicago (May 14): Chicago 106, Orlando 95
Game 5 @ Orlando Arena, Orlando (May 16): Orlando 103, Chicago 95
Game 6 @ United Center, Chicago (May 18): Orlando 108, Chicago 102

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199505180CHI.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLGp6QJ-8fk

[Lebron23]

Magic say hi


That you for owning that clown. He's so annoying. One of the most useless posters in this forum.

[ImKobe]

If Horace Grant knew that MJ was returning and stayed with the Bulls, they beat Orlando that year.

Grant averaged 18 ppg on 65% shooting that series.

[Lebron23]

If Horace Grant knew that MJ was returning and stayed with the Bulls, they beat Orlando that year.

Grant averaged 18 ppg on 65% shooting that series.


Grant wanted to play with Shaq. And he even joined him in LA.

[riseagainst]

He lost, end of story.


Lebron lost..... alot, end of story.

[Dragonyeuw]

Uhh...Jordan was garbage in the 93 series vs the knicks and the 96 series vs the sonics. It's a myth that Jordan was never bad in a series.

Kind of a testament to his greatness that 27ppg on 41% and 32ppg on 40% constitutes garbage. MJs bad was still better than many other players 'good/great' even if the efficiency wasnt there in those series.

[Hey Yo]

And your argument would hold weight if MJ didn't win nothing after 1995 but we know what happened. That just PROVES that in 1995, MJ didn't have his bball legs, his feel for the game or the proper time needed to build that chemistry with his teammates on the court. And don't mention his 55 point game. Having 1 great game is not the same as the factors I listed.
:oldlol:

Cause it contradicts everything you said above it.

I thought you said excuses are for losers?

[Real14]

:facepalm

[feyki]

Beside of 91 , Jordan never averaged %55 TS against Ewing .

[Bankaii]

2012 Heat weren't that great outside of Lebron/Wade.
Bosh had his moments. And their role players were knock down shooters but only if Lebron could get them an open shot.

Would be nice to see prime Wade vs MJ.
And peak Lebron vs Pippen's defense though.

[Hey Yo]

And that's supposed to be better? Jordan averaged more points, more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks and turned the ball over less (14 turnovers to 24 compared to Pippen in the series)

Lebron took 33 shots to average 36 ppg on 48%TS, under 40% from the field and averaged over 3 turnovers per game while being a liability in clutch situations and getting locked down by Iggy in 4th quarters. Jordan took 7 less shots per game to average 4 less points, and unlike Lebron he actually had a 50-point game in that series.

and I said 2012 and 2013 Finals, this was a debate about 91 MJ versus 2012 Lebron if their teams met, not about Cleveland Lebron hogging the ball and losing a Playoff series that he had no business being in.

91 Jordan absolutely destroyed the league

swept the Knicks
swept the bad boy Pistons
lost one game the whole EC Playoffs in a 2pt loss @Philly though he had 46 points in that game
91 Bulls were 15 - 2 in the Playoffs, 2nd most dominant Playoff run to 01 Lakers. The two losses were 1 possession games that the Bulls should have won since Jordan went off on them.

Lebron doesn't come close, doesn't matter which Finals/Championship run of his you can come up with. Jordan was always that much better.

You realize Jordan averaged 31/7/11 on 56% shooting against the Lakers in the '91 Finals, and that ain't even his best Finals/Playoff series :oldlol:
The Knicks went 39-43 that season :applause: ....:rolleyes:
Philly was a 44 win team who were nothing to write home about other than Charles.
Detroit a 50 win team who was getting old. The Microwave (a role player coming off the bench and MJ's defensive assignment) lead Detroit in scoring (21ppg) shooting 58.7%

91 Bulls, winning when you're favored, has the 2nd most dominant playoff run in NBA history???

:roll: :roll:

[Lebron23]

Miami Heat in 5.

[ImKobe]

The Knicks went 39-43 that season :applause: ....:rolleyes:
Philly was a 44 win team who were nothing to write home about other than Charles.
Detroit a 50 win team who was getting old. The Microwave (a role player coming off the bench and MJ's defensive assignment) lead Detroit in scoring (21ppg) shooting 58.7%

91 Bulls, winning when you're favored, has the 2nd most dominant playoff run in NBA history???

:roll: :roll:

It's been 4 years, but I'll give it a reply since this got bumped. Jordan absolutely ran over the league in '91. 15 - 2 at the time of my post was the 2nd best record for a championship run in the modern era behind Shaq & Kobe's 15 - 1, and individually the '91 MJ run is arguably the best we've ever seen. From scoring at an elite level to playing all-time great defense to putting up 8.4 assists with just 2.5 turnovers a game. 2017 Warriors obviously are in the conversation now and probably deserve to be #1 or at the very least #2 all-time as far as dominant runs go, with 15 straight wins in the Playoffs. '99 Spurs obviously went 15 - 2 as well, but that's a lockout-shortened season with one of the weakest Finals opponents we've ever seen, not to mention their two losses came against a .500 Timberwolves team and a 27 - 23 Knicks squad that didn't even have Ewing for the Finals.

[DoctorP]

Who do you think wins in a best of 7 series? LeBron winning his first Finals MVP at aged 27 while MJ winning his first Finals MVP at aged 28.

2012 Miami Heat

G-Mario Chalmers
G-Dwyane Wade
F-Lebron James
F-Chris Bosh
C-Joel Anthony

1991 Chicago Bulls

G - John Paxson
G - Michael Jordan
F - Scottie Pippen
F - Horace Grant
C - Bill Cartwright

LeBron would barely outplay Pippen and Pip would get the upper hand at least one or two games in the series.

In game 7, Jordan and Wade would play tight for a half before Jordan outplays Wade in the clutch.

Bulls in 7

[Lebron23]

LeBron would barely outplay Pippen and Pip would get the upper hand at least one or two games in the series.

In game 7, Jordan and Wade would play tight for a half before Jordan outplays Wade in the clutch.

Bulls in 7

Lebron is mr game 7. Bron would posterize jordan and pippen or he starts raining 3 pointers just like in Game 7 of tne 2013 nba finals.

[DoctorP]

Lebron is mr game 7. Bron would posterize jordan and pippen or he starts raining 3 pointers just like in Game 7 of tne 2013 nba finals.

could be. i wouldnt doubt it either

[Lebron23]

could be. i wouldnt doubt it either

Never doubt him. 2012 and 2013 Miami were an elite defensive team.

[DoctorP]

Never doubt him. 2012 and 2013 Miami were an elite defensive team.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/HyDAt79JnlY4M/giphy.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/dd4c6364b05110587bd58152ee0d3512/tenor.gif

[Whoah10115]

Miami Heat in 5.

You bump a lot.

4 years and the answer doesn't change. LeBron is Mr. Game 7, ok. But Jordan is Mr. Games 1-6, so this is over in 5 or 6. And the Heat don't win.

[Turbo Slayer]

I swear Jordan stans are hypocites. First they bash Pippen and the entire supporting cast and tell everyone they are scrubs then automatically tell everyone that the 1991 Bulls will beat the 2012 Miami Heat.

LOLLLL.

Deluded fanbase.

[ImKobe]

You bump a lot.

4 years and the answer doesn't change. LeBron is Mr. Game 7, ok. But Jordan is Mr. Games 1-6, so this is over in 5 or 6. And the Heat don't win.

Pretty much. The Heat got taken to 7 by a 49-win Pacers squad with a pre-prime Paul George leading the way. Pippen/MJ would lock down him & Wade and Grant would feast on that front court. Bulls dominate the glass.


I swear Jordan stans are hypocites. First they bash Pippen and the entire supporting cast and tell everyone they are scrubs then automatically tell everyone that the 1991 Bulls will beat the 2012 Miami Heat.

LOLLLL.

Deluded fanbase.


Weak argument. "Jordan stans" are responding to the anti-Jordan folk who make Pippen out to be a superstar-level player. He's really good and deserves to be praised, but people here are trying to put him on the same level as David Robinson and Charles Barkley, even arguing his case over them... Pippen was the perfect fit alongside MJ on both ends & a top 50 player with his resume, we can leave it at that and not go crazy to diminish what Jordan did in the 90s.

[Roundball_Rock]

I swear Jordan stans are hypocites. First they bash Pippen and the entire supporting cast and tell everyone they are scrubs then automatically tell everyone that the 1991 Bulls will beat the 2012 Miami Heat.

LOLLLL.

Deluded fanbase.

Exactly.

MJ stans: "MJ had little help--LeBron had super teams!"
MJ stans: "Bulls would easily beat the Heat or Cavs!"

One funny thing is MJ stans' like to bring up advanced stats for Kukoc and Grant for 1994. Check their advanced stats for other years. ; ) Spoiler: advanced stats cited by them say the Bulls were so stacked they had an elite player coming off the bench and Grant was the most underrated player of the era. :bowdown:


"Jordan stans" are responding to the anti-Jordan folk who make Pippen out to be a superstar-level player

That's because he was outside of the Jordanstan bubble. :lol How many times do we have to show chapter and verse about how Pippen was perceived when he played, immediately after he retired, and how he is perceived today?


Pippen was the perfect fit alongside MJ on both ends & a top 50 player with his resume

I hate to break it to you: outside of the bubble, in the real world, Pippen is consensus top 20-30.

[PP34Deuce]

Each of their 3 match up. Bosh would not be able to easily score on Ho Grant and Grant would have to account for Bosh being able to hit the open 3.
Pippen in 91 elite defender but Lebron is Lebron. There's no shut down.
MJ and Wade would be incredible. Wade has the strength to match up with Jordan and at least make him work a lot more. Jordan is Jordan

It would come down to role players. This would be a 6-7 game series. I don't know who wins.

[Real14]

91 bulls would win in 5 or 6 even tho the 2012 heat had a better roster. Lebron failed against Dirk
and would definitely fail against Jordan.