how would the 98 pacers fare in the conf finals this year?

[diamenz]

put them up against any of these four teams (well, we'll save the raptors some face here), i say the pacers take the chip. no need to era debate, the gap between not only time but play style as well is thin. that team was just beastly all-around.

no, this isn't a jordan/bulls prop-up i'm not a 3ball nor do i give a shit about them anymore.

[bigkingsfan]

Swept

[Im Still Ballin]

Swept

[SouBeachTalents]

Swept

[NBAGOAT]

pacers were excellently coached and deep but didn't have too much talent on paper. Reggie, Smits, Dale Davis etc. Bird was also pretty good at coaching offense. Doubt they beat Cavs, Warriors or OKC.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Swept. 90s teams are so overrated. Watered-down league

[Reggie43]

Only team that would probably give them legit problems are the Warriors, the other two teams they matchup pretty well and certainly nothing they havent seen before having battled and won against much better teams. Todays league is pretty watered down that I wont be surprised if the Pacers bench that time make the playoffs in todays league :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Led by a poor man's klay Thompson and bunch of players that would be too slow to play in this league. Yea, I'm sure Cleveland would be S/hitting their pants.

[Reggie43]

Led by a poor man's klay Thompson and bunch of players that would be too slow to play in this league. Yea, I'm sure Cleveland would be S/hitting their pants.

After going 7 games against Jordan/Pip, Shaq/Penny, Ewing/Starks etc. would they really be scared to face Cleveland?? :roll:

[LAKingKobe]

After going 7 games against Jordan/Pip, Shaq/Penny, Ewing/Starks etc. would they really be scared to face Cleveland?? :roll:

They might lose to the Toronto Raptors and Houston Rockets. Swept by Cleveland.

[Hey Yo]

After going 7 games against Jordan/Pip, Shaq/Penny, Ewing/Starks etc. would they really be scared to face Cleveland?? :roll:
The Magic didn't even make the playoffs in 98 and the bolded above were past their primes

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Better than Toronto, for sure.

Cleveland wins the series but it would be a grind...especially with the old rules.

[Young X]

The '97 Hawks would lowkey be the 2nd best team in today's east.

[Lebron23]

Swept

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2F6D0fjW6F0/SiAJ72qek1I/AAAAAAAAALQ/8cW-RHy5emE/s200/swept.png

http://forums.nba-live.com/dl_mod/thumbs/2617_98Pacers.jpg

LeBron is also the Pacers Killer

[Lebron23]

The '97 Hawks would lowkey be the 2nd best team in today's east.


Stop overrating the past buddy. What year were you born?

[Reggie43]

The Magic didn't even make the playoffs in 98 and the bolded above were past their primes

was actually talking about past playoff matchups in the previous years that they had with their core players

[Reggie43]

The '97 Hawks would lowkey be the 2nd best team in today's east.

Easily 2nd best, Mutombo, Steve and Mookie would even give Cleveland hell if they matchup. Dikembe would shutdown their frontline while blocking the shit out of Lebron :no:

[AintNoSunshine]

What? They get swept in this day and age

[fourkicks44]

Swept

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2F6D0fjW6F0/SiAJ72qek1I/AAAAAAAAALQ/8cW-RHy5emE/s200/swept.png

http://forums.nba-live.com/dl_mod/thumbs/2617_98Pacers.jpg

LeBron is also the Pacers Killer

Haha Pacers would kill Love and Thompson on the boards.

Tough match up against Lebron and Kyrie.

Series would go to Seven. Give me a Miller game winner in the clutch though, Lebron aint hitting it.

[NBAGOAT]

Haha Pacers would kill Love and Thompson on the boards.

Tough match up against Lebron and Kyrie.

Series would go to Seven. Give me a Miller game winner in the clutch though, Lebron aint hitting it.

:biggums: The Pacers were great but rebounding was not one of their strengths.
That starting lineup has one great rebounder dale davis who's still not as good as tristan. Rik Smits is one of the poorer rebounders you'll find at the center position. Also I'm sure Lebron is worried about a 35 year old chris mullin guarding him. :oldlol:

[fourkicks44]

:biggums: The Pacers were great but rebounding was not one of their strengths.
That starting lineup has one great rebounder dale davis who's still not as good as tristan. Rik Smits is one of the poorer rebounders you'll find at the center position. Also I'm sure Lebron is worried about a 35 year old chris mullin guarding him. :oldlol:

You know and I know that the Smits, Davis, Davis rotations was FORMIDABLE. And this was a time of dominate big men and frontlines. I rate Thompson, but he should be averaging 18 boards a game in this league. Seems the boy only wants to play when a big contract is on the line.

McKey would have had the defensive assignment on Lebron obviously and played more minutes. Like I said, would have been a tough match up. None of them would have played against a player like him. But having those boys clogging up the key with today's rules they would own the boards.

[NBAGOAT]

You know and I know that the Smits, Davis, Davis rotations was FORMIDABLE. And this was a time of dominate big men and frontlines. I rate Thompson, but he should be averaging 18 boards a game in this league. Seems the boy only wants to play when a big contract is on the line.

McKey would have had the defensive assignment on Lebron obviously and played more minutes. Like I said, would have been a tough match up. None of them would have played against a player like him. But having those boys clogging up the key with today's rules they would own the boards.

there's no way in hell rik smits would dominate the boards, I was being generous before he was a terrible rebounder for a center. There's a reason he gets brook lopez comparisons. You can be a good frontcourt but bad on the boards(Hawks a great a example).

[jstern]

The team was pretty good. They took the Bulls to 7 games, and that says a lot.

[fourkicks44]

there's no way in hell rik smits would dominate the boards, I was being generous before he was a terrible rebounder for a center. There's a reason he gets brook lopez comparisons. You can be a good frontcourt but bad on the boards(Hawks a great a example).

Firstly who ever said that is a moron.

Secondly if you correlate today's Hawks with 98 Pacers you are a moron.

Rik Smits', Davis', Davis' rebounding against Ewing, LJ, Camby and Sprewell? Mourning, PJ Brown, Weatherspoon, Majerle and Mashburn? Kemp, Ilgauskas, Potapenko and Sura?

Thompson and Love look like chumps.

Any Era... Deal with it.

[Lebron23]

Lebron is a soon to be 3x NBA Champion while Reggie Miller is ringless, and a poor man's Klay Thompson.

[fourkicks44]

Lebron is a soon to be 3x NBA Champion while Reggie Miller is ringless, and a poor man's Klay Thompson.

While Jordan is your God, and Miller took him to game 7.

Your point?

[Lebron23]

While Jordan is your God, and Miller took him to game 7.

Your point?


Jordan is the GOAT. Miller is not even a top 5 Shooting guard in NBA History.

[aj1987]

Easily 2nd best, Mutombo, Steve and Mookie would even give Cleveland hell if they matchup. Dikembe would shutdown their frontline while blocking the shit out of Lebron :no:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

The Cavs would take a massive dump on them. Keep raining 3's and pull Deke out to the 3.

[Reggie43]

Lebron is a soon to be 3x NBA Champion while Reggie Miller is ringless, and a poor man's Klay Thompson.

Lebron playing in the 90s would be ringless as well so whats your point:confusedshrug:

[Reggie43]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The Cavs would take a massive dump on them. Keep raining 3's and pull Deke out to the 3.

Probably :lol but they would atleast be better than the Raptors

[fourkicks44]

Jordan is the GOAT. Miller is not even a top 5 Shooting guard in NBA History.

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lebron-flop-2.gif

http://cdn.triangleoffense.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1998-Reggie-vs-Bulls-The-Shove.gif

[fourkicks44]

Just in case you were not there to see it at the time here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5drIn3aLco

[aj1987]

.......
You actually think Reggie is a top 5 SG of all time?

MJ
Kobe
Wade
West
Drexler
AI
Gervin
T-Mac

And then you have Allen, AI, Dumars, and Jones. Harden and Klay will probably surpass him as well.

[Reggie43]

What many young uns fail to understand about the 1998 Pacers was that it was never about the individual players but their collective effort as a group that made them a very good team. They were one of the most cohesive teams at the time that also had great chemistry while being very good at both ends of the floor as a team. They were a 9-10 deep team that had very good players coming off the bench.

[Lebron23]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818293/takethathaters.gif

[Reggie43]

Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen after their game 7 win in 98

Bulls coach Phil Jackson said Indiana could have been his team's toughest postseason opponent.

"I think it was two teams testing each other at their weakest points," Jackson said. "We were trying to find the areas in which we could exploit them. There was a balance of give-and-take during the whole series. Obviously, we won a couple of games by bigger margins than they did, but it was by and large their ability in Indiana to play under duress that made them capable of putting the series to a seventh game. . . . We felt that poise was not going to be an issue with their team."

Scottie Pippen agreed.

"They gave us everything we could ask for," he said. "But it was a very enjoyable series compared to some of the other series we've been in in the past. This was very clean-cut. Both teams gave their best. I can't say the best team won, but I'm glad we came out on top. I have a lot of respect for Indiana."

[Lebron23]

On topic. Cavaliers are playing like true champions in this year's playoffs. Raptors were 19-11 against the Western Conference Teams they are 2-0 vs. Blazers.

They are just playing fantastic team basketball. Everyone is a contributors.

[fourkicks44]

On topic. Cavaliers are playing like true champions in this year's playoffs. Raptors were 19-11 against the Western Conference Teams they are 2-0 vs. Blazers.

They are just playing fantastic team basketball. Everyone is a contributors.

That is off topic.

Just hold the L. You should be use to it as a Cleveland and Lebron fan.

[Lebron23]

That is off topic.

Just hold the L. You should be use to it as a Cleveland and Lebron fan.


Lakers are the biggest losers in this league. It's been almost 5 years since they won a playoffs series.

[Lebron23]

Lebron playing in the 90s would be ringless as well so whats your point:confusedshrug:


LeBron in the 1990's would be playing with Patrick Ewing, Shaq and Penny, or join The Indiana Pacers.

[aj1987]

Lebron playing in the 90s would be ringless as well so whats your point:confusedshrug:
If he was playing on any of the contenders, they'd definitely beat the Bulls.

[Reggie43]

LeBron in the 1990's would be playing with Patrick Ewing, Shaq and Penny, or join The Indiana Pacers.

Yeah he probably does that.

[Reggie43]

If he was playing on any of the contenders, they'd definitely beat the Bulls.

They might win because youre putting Lebron on a team thats already established. A better scenario imo would be to replace a contenders main guy with James and we speculate from there if he could win with that team.

[JBSptfn]

Lebron playing in the 90s would be ringless as well so whats your point:confusedshrug:

Not if he was on the 1991 Blazers.

[Lebron23]

Put Peak LeBron with the 1998 Pacers, and they beat the Chicago Bulls in 7 games.

[aj1987]

They might win because youre putting Lebron on a team thats already established. A better scenario imo would be to replace a contenders main guy with James and we speculate from there if he could win with that team.
Replace Reggie with LeBron and they might. How about LeBron on the Jazz instead of the Malone?

[Reggie43]

Replace Reggie with LeBron and they might. How about LeBron on the Jazz instead of the Malone?

They might if he could play offball, adjust to the physicality and different set of rules. He might have been more skilled out of necessity if he grew up as a player in that era because pretty sure he wont "survive" the 90s playing the style he was used to, even at his peak.

[aj1987]

They might if he could play offball, adjust to the physicality and different set of rules. He might have been more skilled out of necessity if he grew up as a player in that era because pretty sure he wont "survive" the 90s playing the style he was used to, even at his peak.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah, and MJ would be a poor man's Derozan and Reggie would be the D-League if they played today. GTFOH.

[Reggie43]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah, and MJ would be a poor man's Derozan and Reggie would be the D-League if they played today. GTFOH.

He was losing to the likes of Dwight and Dirk old Duncan etc, what makes you think he wins anything in a league with much much better players :lol

[Reggie43]

Lebron in the 90s would suffer the same fate as Shaq, Malone, Ewing, Barkley etc..

[aj1987]

He was losing to the likes of Dwight and Dirk old Duncan etc, what makes you think he wins anything in a league with much much better players :lol
You do realize that Dwight was a 3x DPOY and an MVP candidate and that LeBron was on a team with bums, right? Dirk is arguably a top 15-20 GOAT and a former MVP as well. Old Duncan? You mean a team with TP, Manu, Kawhi, Green, etc., which was coached by Pop? The Heat was just LeBron and a broken down Wade.

:facepalm :facepalm


Lebron in the 90s would suffer the same fate as Shaq, Malone, Ewing, Barkley etc..
The '90's as a decade is 10 years long and MJ won 6 rings. There are 4 other seasons during which MJ didn't win. Put LeBron on a ideal team and he probably beats MJ.

[Reggie43]

You do realize that Dwight was a 3x DPOY and an MVP candidate and that LeBron was on a team with bums, right? Dirk is arguably a top 15-20 GOAT and a former MVP as well. Old Duncan? You mean a team with TP, Manu, Kawhi, Green, etc., which was coached by Pop? The Heat was just LeBron and a broken down Wade.

:facepalm :facepalm


The '90's as a decade is 10 years long and MJ won 6 rings. There are 4 other seasons during which MJ didn't win. Put LeBron on a ideal team and he probably beats MJ.

Dwight and Dirk would be 2nd tier bigs in the 90s, both behind the players i listed so how does that actually help your argument? Wouldnt even bother with the spurs one :oldlol:

Define ideal team? Does he join Shaq/Penny, Kemp/Payton, or Malone/Stockton :roll: :roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

You do realize that Dwight was a 3x DPOY and an MVP candidate and that LeBron was on a team with bums, right? Dirk is arguably a top 15-20 GOAT and a former MVP as well. Old Duncan? You mean a team with TP, Manu, Kawhi, Green, etc., which was coached by Pop? The Heat was just LeBron and a broken down Wade.

:facepalm :facepalm


The '90's as a decade is 10 years long and MJ won 6 rings. There are 4 other seasons during which MJ didn't win. Put LeBron on a ideal team and he probably beats MJ.

stop trolling

[NBAGOAT]

Dwight and Dirk would be 2nd tier bigs in the 90s, both behind the players i listed so how does that actually help your argument? Wouldnt even bother with the spurs one :oldlol:

Define ideal team? Does he join Shaq/Penny, Kemp/Payton, or Malone/Stockton :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dwight maybe, he be definitely behind the top 4 of Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, and Ewing but there's no one else that's easily better. Dirk is absolutely comparable to Barkley and Malone, calling him 2nd tier is unbelievable. A 7 footer who can shoot like that was unprecedented. Lebron on most playoff teams is ideal, you even put him on a team like Charlotte instead of anthony mason and that's a 60+ win ecf team that gives the Bulls some trouble(thinking Bulls win 6 or 7).

[aj1987]

Dwight and Dirk would be 2nd tier bigs in the 90s, both behind the players i listed so how does that actually help your argument?
:biggums: :biggums:

Honest question, are you retarded? Dirk has seasons averaging 25/10 before the rule changes. Dude's one of the greatest scorers of all time.

Dwight won 3 DPOY titles in the late '00's. Imagine what he'd be able to do on the defensive end, if he was allowed to be more physical. He'd be Ewing on roids on the defensive end.


Wouldnt even bother with the spurs one
Probably because you can't?


Define ideal team? Does he join Shaq/Penny, Kemp/Payton, or Malone/Stockton
The **** are you laughing for? MJ needed two of the greatest defenders of all time and the GOAT coach, along with a plethora of other really good role-players to win his titles. Replace Payton/Kemp with LeBron and they win in '96. A SIGNIFICANT offensive upgrade without too much loss on the defensive end. Again, LeBron + hand checking = Pippen on roids on the defensive end.


stop trolling
Yeah, you really should.

[Reggie43]

:biggums: :biggums:

Honest question, are you retarded? Dirk has seasons averaging 25/10 before the rule changes. Dude's one of the greatest scorers of all time.

Dwight won 3 DPOY titles in the late '00's. Imagine what he'd be able to do on the defensive end, if he was allowed to be more physical. He'd be Ewing on roids on the defensive end.


Probably because you can't?


The **** are you laughing for? MJ needed two of the greatest defenders of all time and the GOAT coach, along with a plethora of other really good role-players to win his titles. Replace Payton/Kemp with LeBron and they win in '96. A SIGNIFICANT offensive upgrade without too much loss on the defensive end. Again, LeBron + hand checking = Pippen on roids on the defensive end.


Yeah, you really should.

Stopped reading when you said Dwight would be Ewing on roids :facepalm

[aj1987]

Stopped reading when you said Dwight would be Ewing on roids :facepalm
On the defensive end, fool. You should try reading entire posts before jumping to conclusions.

[Reggie43]

On the defensive end, fool. You should try reading entire posts before jumping to conclusions.

Actually got that the first time :facepalm How much better do you get if you averaged 4 blocks per game in your peak (Ewing) Do you really think Dwight gets more than that with the added physicality when he never even averaged 3bpg :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

:biggums: :biggums:

Honest question, are you retarded? Dirk has seasons averaging 25/10 before the rule changes. Dude's one of the greatest scorers of all time.

Dwight won 3 DPOY titles in the late '00's. Imagine what he'd be able to do on the defensive end, if he was allowed to be more physical. He'd be Ewing on roids on the defensive end.


Probably because you can't?


The **** are you laughing for? MJ needed two of the greatest defenders of all time and the GOAT coach, along with a plethora of other really good role-players to win his titles. Replace Payton/Kemp with LeBron and they win in '96. A SIGNIFICANT offensive upgrade without too much loss on the defensive end. Again, LeBron + hand checking = Pippen on roids on the defensive end.


Yeah, you really should.

yea i don't think he be Ewing on roids. He can switch onto smaller defenders better but Ewing's a better rim protector. Rest of what you said is true except calling Lebron Pippen on roids on defense. He's still not as quick as Pippen but would do better guarding 4's.


Actually got that the first time How much better do you get if you averaged 4 blocks per game in your peak (Ewing) Do you really think Dwight gets more than that with the added physicality when he never even averaged 3bpg

:oldlol: at using just blocks to rate defense. Also the added physicality helps Dwight have more leeway on defense. And don't act like the 4 blocks wasn't kind of an outlier, next highest year for him was 3.2. I'll say this about Dwight he anchored the Magic to the best defense in the league surrounded by mediocre defenders. Ewing was the anchor of those all time great Knicks defense but every starter they had was a great defender. Even disregarding the Dwight stuff, you still badly disrespected Dirk.

[Reggie43]

yea i don't think he be Ewing on roids. He can switch onto smaller defenders better but Ewing's a better rim protector. Rest of what you said is true except calling Lebron Pippen on roids on defense. He's still not as quick as Pippen but would do better guarding 4's.



:oldlol: at using just blocks to rate defense. Also the added physicality helps Dwight have more leeway on defense. And don't act like the 4 blocks wasn't kind of an outlier, next highest year for him was 3.2. I'll say this about Dwight he anchored the Magic to the best defense in the league surrounded by mediocre defenders. Ewing was the anchor of those all time great Knicks defense but every starter they had was a great defender. Even disregarding the Dwight stuff, you still badly disrespected Dirk.

Ill give you the Dirk one, he is obviously comparable to Karl and Chuck but not the 2 way centers

[aj1987]

yea i don't think he be Ewing on roids. He can switch onto smaller defenders better but Ewing's a better rim protector. Rest of what you said is true except calling Lebron Pippen on roids on defense. He's still not as quick as Pippen but would do better guarding 4's.
Exactly. The versatility, them being two of the strongest and most athletic players ever, and allowing them to be as physical as possible would make them significantly better defender than what they were/are.


Actually got that the first time :facepalm How much better do you get if you averaged 4 blocks per game in your peak (Ewing) Do you really think Dwight gets more than that with the added physicality when he never even averaged 3bpg :oldlol:
You're one of those posters who think blocks + steals = great defender? :facepalm

Whiteside averaged 4 blocks a game this season. You think he was even close to being on DPOY Dwight's level defensively?

Oh, and the Knicks that seasons were +6 pace wise and Ewing was playing like 4 more minutes a game than Diwght. I hate the stat, but per 36, they averaged pretty much the same number of blocks.

I'll just post this as well. Per36, Hassan averaged nearly 5 blocks a game this season.

[Reggie43]

Exactly. The versatility, them being two of the strongest and most athletic players ever, and allowing them to be as physical as possible would make them significantly better defender than what they were/are.


You're one of those posters who think blocks + steals = great defender? :facepalm

Whiteside averaged 4 blocks a game this season. You think he was even close to being on DPOY Dwight's level defensively?

Oh, and the Knicks that seasons were +6 pace wise and Ewing was playing like 4 more minutes a game than Diwght. I hate the stat, but per 36, they averaged pretty much the same number of blocks.

I'll just post this as well. Per36, Hassan averaged nearly 5 blocks a game this season.

We talking about pace and per36 now? How about level of competition do you even factor that in? Dwight in the 90s would be lucky to win one Dpoy.

[aj1987]

We talking about pace and per36 now? How about level of competition do you even factor that in? Dwight in the 90s would be lucky to win one Dpoy.
Dude, you brought up blocks to evaluate defense and I'm trying to show how ****ing retarded that is.

Dwight would be lucky to win one DPOY the same way that MJ would be lucky to win one MVP today.

[Reggie43]

Dude, you brought up blocks to evaluate defense and I'm trying to show how ****ing retarded that is.

Dwight would be lucky to win one DPOY the same way that MJ would be lucky to win one MVP today.

I brought in blocks as an example of defense, you just assumed that was my only measure. If you really think Dwight would be a better defender in the 90s be my guest, I wont stretch this further.

[90sgoat]

Rik Smits is a 7-4 big man, who had range out to the 3 point line and who Shaq said was his toughest guy matchup physically.

I'd like to see Tristan Thompson or Draymond Green guard him.

Dale Davis was a tough as nails PF in the tradition of Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis was another strong, tough rebounder who later in the lesser NBA played Center.

Reggie enough said, but they also had Chris Mullins - a DREAM team member - who was past his prime but still a deadly shooter.

Marc Jackson veteran point guard, one of the best playmakers of all time.

Yeah, they manage at least WCF and ECF. Could win and lose to both GSW and maybe Cleveland, but that's it.

[aj1987]

I brought in blocks as an example of defense, you just assumed that was my only measure. If you really think Dwight would be a better defender in the 90s be my guest, I wont stretch this further.
Again, as the other guy stated, Dwight anchored a defense which had bad to mediocre defenders. Ewing had a team full of talented defenders.

Are you really denying FACTS?

[Reggie43]

Again, as the other guy stated, Dwight anchored a defense which had bad to mediocre defenders. Ewing had a team full of talented defenders.

Are you really denying FACTS?

Thats your logic? I have bad teammates therefore Im better? That only shows how inflated Howards numbers really are. Howards rebounding numbers gets deflated playing with great rebounders like Oakley and Mason.

All this talk about defense yet you forgot to mention dwights reputation for being historically soft? When matched up with decent bigs he always got outplayed, something that says a lot about his defense yet he suddenly does better in an era with better big men :oldloI

I remember Shaq, duncan, Yao always killed him in individual matchups and lets not forget in the biggest series of his career he got shutdown and outplayed by Paul fkn Gasol :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

Thats your logic? I have bad teammates therefore Im better? That only shows how inflated Howards numbers really are. Howards rebounding numbers gets deflated playing with great rebounders like Oakley and Mason.
Do you not understand English? Dwight anchored the best defense in the league with mediocre defenders. Ewing needed a handful of good to elite defenders to do the same.

Also, why are you bringing up rebounding? Has nothing to do with defense.


All this talk about defense yet you forgot to mention dwights reputation for being historically soft? When matched up with decent bigs he always got outplayed, something that says a lot about his defense yet he suddenly does better in an era with better big men
Dwight is "historically soft"? Why? Because Kobe yelled he was soft?



I remember Shaq, duncan, Yao always killed him in individual matchups and lets not forget in the biggest series of his career he got shutdown and outplayed by Paul fkn Gasol
No one could stop Shaq. Ever.

Dwight - 18/14/1/1/2 on 59%
Timmy - 17/10/3/1/2 on 52%

Yao is like 6 inches taller than Dwight and talented AF. Most of the games that Dwight struggled against him were during his rookie season.

Dwight - 18/13/1/1/2 on 56%
Gasol - 17/10/3/1/1 on 51%

[Reggie43]

Do you not understand English? Dwight anchored the best defense in the league with mediocre defenders. Ewing needed a handful of good to elite defenders to do the same.

Also, why are you bringing up rebounding? Has nothing to do with defense.

Are we gonna act like Dwight does the same with better competition? We all know how the 2009 Finals went. You dont wann use blocks and rebounds as a measure of defense? What does he actually do outside of those that make him stand out, you and i both know he isnt a good man defender.



Dwight is "historically soft"? Why? Because Kobe yelled he was soft?

His own teammates, opponents, retired players have all said this about him. That tough guy act of his has been proven to be fake as shit way before kobe called him out :lol




No one could stop Shaq. Ever.

Dwight - 18/14/1/1/2 on 59%
Timmy - 17/10/3/1/2 on 52%

Yao is like 6 inches taller than Dwight and talented AF. Most of the games that Dwight struggled against him were during his rookie season.

Dwight - 18/13/1/1/2 on 56%
Gasol - 17/10/3/1/1 on 51%

He faced an aging Shaq that was a couple years removed from his prime was far from the unstoppable force that he was in his Laker years and Dwight at his peak couldnt handle him.

He matched up well against Duncan but got destroyed by Yao Ming, now imagine the beating Orlando Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson Ewing etc gives him, does he still win multiple Dpoys by then :roll: :roll: :roll:

Regular season numbers against Gasol doesnt mean shit how bout their Finals numbers?

Dwight - 15.4pts 15.2rebs 2.2ast 1.6stl 4blk .488fg%
Gasol - 18.6pts 9.2rebs 2.2ast .8stl 1.8blk .600fg%

Add in the fact that Dwight was coming off a series where he averaged almost 26points a game on 65% shooting and youll realize just how bad he was in the Finals.

[aj1987]

Are we gonna act like Dwight does the same with better competition? We all know how the 2009 Finals went. You dont wann use blocks and rebounds as a measure of defense? What does he actually do outside of those that make him stand out, you and i both know he isnt a good man defender.
You can look up any of the advanced stats. Dwight, during him prime, had ATG level defensive metrics. Check out his DRtg or defensive RAPM.


His own teammates, opponents, retired players have all said this about him. That tough guy act of his has been proven to be fake as shit way before kobe called him out
Most of them call him out for his almost non-existent offensive game. Some actually think he's still an elite defensive player (he's not).


He faced an aging Shaq that was a couple years removed from his prime was far from the unstoppable force that he was in his Laker years and Dwight at his peak couldnt handle him.
Dwight - 17/11/1/1/1 on 55%
Shaq - 16/6/2/1/2 on 63%

Rookie and Sophomore Dwight struggled against Shaq, when he had most of his big games. Oh, and Shaq was still averaging 18/8/2/1/1 on 61% at 36. Shaq was always unstoppable. 3rd year Shaq was unstoppable and it was Hakeem, who was covering him.


He matched up well against Duncan but got destroyed by Yao Ming, now imagine the beating Orlando Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson Ewing etc gives him, does he still win multiple Dpoys by then
You do realize that Dwight's one of the best and strongest athletes in NBA history, right? There's a reason why he's a 3x DPOY. It's not just a fluke.


Regular season numbers against Gasol doesnt mean shit how bout their Finals numbers?

Dwight - 15.4pts 15.2rebs 2.2ast 1.6stl 4blk .488fg%
Gasol - 18.6pts 9.2rebs 2.2ast .8stl 1.8blk .600fg%
David Robinson in the '95 WCF.
Ewing in the '94 Finals.


Add in the fact that Dwight was coming off a series where he averaged almost 26points a game on 65% shooting and youll realize just how bad he was in the Finals.
And? Ewing and Robinson both had shit tier performances in the PO's. Heck, Robinson has a reputation of being a choker in the PO's.

Also, you keep bringing up DPOY's, when Ewing has NONE. I never claimed in this thread that Dwight would win multiple DPOY's. I said he'd be a significantly better defender than Ewing. Where did the DPOY's come up from?

[Reggie43]

Also, you keep bringing up DPOY's, when Ewing has NONE. I never claimed in this thread that Dwight would win multiple DPOY's. I said he'd be a significantly better defender than Ewing. Where did the DPOY's come up from?


We talking about pace and per36 now? How about level of competition do you even factor that in? Dwight in the 90s would be lucky to win one Dpoy.



Dwight would be lucky to win one DPOY the same way that MJ would be lucky to win one MVP today.

...

[aj1987]

...

Also, you keep bringing up DPOY's, when Ewing has NONE. I never claimed in this thread that Dwight would win multiple DPOY's. I said he'd be a significantly better defender than Ewing. Where did the DPOY's come up from?


God, you're dense.

[Reggie43]

God, you're dense.

Says the guy who thinks Dwight can keep up in any era :oldlol:

Howard getting punked by softer players not enough reason for you :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

Says the guy who thinks Dwight can keep up in any era :oldlol:

Howard getting punked by softer players not enough reason for you :roll: :roll:
I've been presenting you with facts and all you do is post that smilies and irrelevant BS. But but but blocks doe... :facepalm

[Reggie43]

I've been presenting you with facts and all you do is post that smilies and irrelevant BS. But but but blocks doe... :facepalm

Which facts are you taking about? That being shutdown/dominated by Gasoft is the same as Ewing and Robinson being killed by OLajuwon? That because he got numbers in a weaker league you assume he does the same in an era with better competition?

[NBAGOAT]

Which facts are you taking about? That being shutdown/dominated by Gasoft is the same as Ewing and Robinson being killed by OLajuwon? That because he got numbers in a weaker league you assume he does the same in an era with better competition?

simple question, do you really think guys like Mutombo or Vlade Divac or your man Smits are better than Dwight? I would find that laughable if you said yes and those guys were all top 10 centers in the 90's. Dwight's prime is comparable to Alonzo, he be a fringe top 5 center in the 90's. He could definitelywin dpoy in the 90's depending on when his prime was. If it was early to mid 90s, it be hard to beat Hakeem or Drob. If it was the late 90's when Hakeem, Drob, and Ewing were all past their prime he be right up there with Alonzo or Mutombo in the running.

[Reggie43]

simple question, do you really think guys like Mutombo or Vlade Divac or your man Smits are better than Dwight? I would find that laughable if you said yes and those guys were all top 10 centers in the 90's. Dwight's prime is comparable to Alonzo, he be a fringe top 5 center in the 90's. He could definitelywin dpoy in the 90's depending on when his prime was. If it was early to mid 90s, it be hard to beat Hakeem or Drob. If it was the late 90's when Hakeem, Drob, and Ewing were all past their prime he be right up there with Alonzo or Mutombo in the running.

Does anything in my past posts imply that he will be lesser than Divac and Smits? He could be outplayed by Smits in a series but Rik obviously wont be better. All the other things you saidi is true but imo he wont be beating Mutombo and Zo.

[NBAGOAT]

Does anything in my past posts imply that he will be lesser than Divac and Smits? He could be outplayed by Smits in a series but Rik obviously wont be better. All the other things you saidi is true but imo he wont be beating Mutombo and Zo.

I think he could. I'm just bringing it up because you said Dwight couldn't keep up. Being a top 10 center easily and possibly top 5 isn't keeping up. :oldlol: It's just unfair, every modern center gets marginalized by someone bringing up the 90's when people don't realize no other era had a group of centers like that besides. 4 of the top 7 centers of all time, 2 other hall of famers isn't the norm.

[Reggie43]

I think he could. I'm just bringing it up because you said Dwight couldn't keep up. Being a top 10 center easily and possibly top 5 isn't keeping up. :oldlol: It's just unfair, every modern center gets marginalized by someone bringing up the 90's when people don't realize no other era had a group of centers like that besides. 4 of the top 7 centers of all time, 2 other hall of famers isn't the norm.

Pretty sure what you said is common knowledge among decent posters here. What I meant by "not keeping up" is he wont be considered the best at the position like he was in his prime.

[NBAGOAT]

Pretty sure what you said is common knowledge among decent posters here. What I meant by "not keeping up" is he wont be considered the best at the position like he was in his prime.

that would true for most centers from other eras besides Kareem in the 70's and Moses in the 80's. It shouldn't really be that big of a black mark for Dwight.

[Reggie43]

that would true for most centers from other eras besides Kareem in the 70's and Moses in the 80's. It shouldn't really be that big of a black mark for Dwight.

Yeah but the discussion was centered around the 90s so thats why comparisons where made with the players that played in that era. Dwight at his peak with a decent team probably makes the Finals today easy, having no other big to contend with.

[aj1987]

Which facts are you taking about? That being shutdown/dominated by Gasoft is the same as Ewing and Robinson being killed by OLajuwon? That because he got numbers in a weaker league you assume he does the same in an era with better competition?
You still don't get it. :facepalm :facepalm

I'm talking about Dwight being a BETTER DEFENSIVE player than Ewing. I never said he was a better over C than Ewing or Robinson. Are you trying to be dense on purpose? :facepalm

Literally the only two players that Dwight would have to beat would be Robinson and Hakeem. Ewing was never on Dwight's level defensively.

You can whine all you want, but 4 top 10 GOAT players had their primes in the '00's and later, with Curry and KD looking in.

EDIT: Honest question. Do you actually watch any of the games?

[Reggie43]

You still don't get it. :facepalm :facepalm

I'm talking about Dwight being a BETTER DEFENSIVE player than Ewing. I never said he was a better over C than Ewing or Robinson. Are you trying to be dense on purpose? :facepalm

Literally the only two players that Dwight would have to beat would be Robinson and Hakeem. Ewing was never on Dwight's level defensively.

You can whine all you want, but 4 top 10 GOAT players had their primes in the '00's and later, with Curry and KD looking in.

EDIT: Honest question. Do you actually watch any of the games?

Yeah believe that all you want, still doesnt make it a generally accepted opinion among decent posters here.

Honest question. Have you seen Ewing play in his Prime? Too many stupid posters around here having an opinion about players they never saw :facepalm

[OnFire]

You do realize that Dwight was a 3x DPOY and an MVP candidate and that LeBron was on a team with bums, right? Dirk is arguably a top 15-20 GOAT and a former MVP as well. Old Duncan? You mean a team with TP, Manu, Kawhi, Green, etc., which was coached by Pop? The Heat was just LeBron and a broken down Wade.

:facepalm :facepalm


The '90's as a decade is 10 years long and MJ won 6 rings. There are 4 other seasons during which MJ didn't win. Put LeBron on a ideal team and he probably beats MJ.

LeBron #1 overall instead of Penny teamed with Shaq....

[aj1987]

Yeah believe that all you want, still doesnt make it a generally accepted opinion among decent posters here.

Honest question. Have you seen Ewing play in his Prime? Too many stupid posters around here having an opinion about players they never saw :facepalm
Continue with the complete BS, without any stats or FACTS to backup up your claims.

How retarded do you have to be to call Dirk a 2nd tier big? :oldlol:


LeBron #1 overall instead of Penny teamed with Shaq....
They would murder the league.

[Reggie43]

Continue with the complete BS, without any stats or FACTS to backup up your claims.

How retarded do you have to be to call Dirk a 2nd tier big? :oldlol:



Are you blind? Gave you all the stats showing how Dwight getting killed trying to defend some of his peers and older players, how much more evidence do you really need? :oldlol:

But but but Dwight was a rookie so its not fair :roll: :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

Are you blind? Gave you all the stats showing how Dwight getting killed trying to defend some of his peers and older players, how much more evidence do you really need?
You literally posted a SINGLE stat line from the '09 Finals.


But but but Dwight was a rookie so its not fair :roll: :roll: :roll:
Stop melting, kid. I know it's hard that all your idols suck balls compared to todays players, but you have to deal with it.

BTW, how does it fell to know that Miller isn't even a top 10 SG all time? :roll:

[Optimus Prime]

Come on man. They're all 40-50 years old.

That being said, they'd still probably push the Raptors to 7 games.

:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Dwight and Dirk would be 2nd tier bigs in the 90s, both behind the players i listed so how does that actually help your argument? Wouldnt even bother with the spurs one :oldlol:

Define ideal team? Does he join Shaq/Penny, Kemp/Payton, or Malone/Stockton :roll: :roll: :roll:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-12-2015/4OrYMS.gif

[Reggie43]

Stop melting, kid. I know it's hard that all your idols suck balls compared to todays players, but you have to deal with it.

BTW, how does it fell to know that Miller isn't even a top 10 SG all time? :roll:

Yep arguable hes outside the top 10 but who cares :confusedshrug: Was never a stupid player stan like some posters here so dont let the username fool you.

[aj1987]

Yep arguable hes outside the top 10 but who cares :confusedshrug: Was never a stupid player stan like some posters here so dont let the username fool you.
No, you're just stupid.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Easily better than the Raptors. They could make a series vs any of the conference finals teams. Definitely see them beating the Raptors though.

[Reggie43]

No, you're just stupid.

Says the guy who thinks Dwight would be Ewing on roids on defense in the 90s :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Says the guy who thinks Dwight would be Ewing on roids on defense in the 90s :oldlol:

Dwight would be undersized and would get his shit pushed in :oldlol:

What is he, 6-9 without shoes? Imagine him going up against Ewing and Hakeem and Shaq and D-Rob :roll:

[Reggie43]

Dwight would be undersized and would get his shit pushed in :oldlol:

What is he, 6-9 without shoes? Imagine him going up against Ewing and Hakeem and Shaq and D-Rob :roll:

Exactly

[ClipperRevival]

Dwight would be undersized and would get his shit pushed in :oldlol:

What is he, 6-9 without shoes? Imagine him going up against Ewing and Hakeem and Shaq and D-Rob :roll:

Which would make him almost 6'11" in shoes. The thing about Dwight is he had great measurables (7'4.5" wingspan and 9',3.5" standing reach). Height really means nothing compared to actual wingspan and standing reach. A guy can be tall and have bad measurables because he is proportioned wrong.

Dwight would've been a force in any era as a defender, rebounder and P&R man. His strength also gets extremely overlooked. Dude was just a very, very strong guy in the low block.

[aj1987]

Which would make him almost 6'11" in shoes. The thing about Dwight is he had great measurables (7'4.5" wingspan and 9',3.5" standing reach). Height really means nothing compared to actual wingspan and standing reach. A guy can be tall and have bad measurables because he is proportioned wrong.

Dwight would've been a force in any era as a defender, rebounder and P&R man. His strength also gets extremely overlooked. Dude was just a very, very strong guy in the low block.
Thank you. Also, besides strength and his wingspan, people forget that Dwight had a 40" vertical.

How hard is it to understand that I was literally only talking about defense and not them as complete players?

[Reggie43]

Thank you. Also, besides strength and his wingspan, people forget that Dwight had a 40" vertical.

How hard is it to understand that I was literally only talking about defense and not them as complete players?

How hard is it to understand that Dwight wont be "Ewing on Roids" defensively in the 90s?

Have been talking about them defensively the whole time yet you keep blabbering about this "complete player" nonsense

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol @ comparing Ewing and Dwight.

Ewing would eat his breakfast, LUNCH and DINNER. Guy had games where he would literally outplay a physically primed Shaq. A decent sample size versus Robinson and Hakeem as well, in their primes.

No way in HELL you'd see a good stretch from Dwight where he would outplay those guys. A game or two? Maybe. If he was lucky and they had off nights.

[NBAGOAT]

lol @ comparing Ewing and Dwight.

Ewing would eat his breakfast, LUNCH and DINNER. Guy had games where he would literally outplay a physically primed Shaq. A decent sample size versus Robinson and Hakeem as well, in their primes.

No way in HELL you'd see a good stretch from Dwight where he would outplay those guys. A game or two? Maybe. If he was lucky and they had off nights.

no one here has said Dwight's better than Ewing (even though outside of 1990 how much better is overall Ewing than prime Dwight?). Dwight brings a lot of his value outside of the 1v1 matchup. Rim protection and his versatility as a center being able to switch onto smaller players(not really Ewing's thing). Even if you think it's ridiculous to compare those 2, I see no reason why Dwight and Alonzo aren't comparable which means he be around top 5 after the big 4 centers.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

no one here has said Dwight's better than Ewing (even though outside of 1990 how much better is overall Ewing than prime Dwight?). Dwight brings a lot of his value outside of the 1v1 matchup. Rim protection and his versatility as a center being able to switch onto smaller players(not really Ewing's thing). Even if you think it's ridiculous to compare those 2, I see no reason why Dwight and Alonzo aren't comparable which means he be around top 5 after the big 4 centers.

Definitively better. If we're including postseason play, I would take 1990/1993/1994/1995/1997 Ewing over EVERY version of Dwight.

Alonzo? I have no qualms there seeing as though they're pretty similar.

Zo could actually shoot outside the paint and had better touch around the basket, IMO.

[NBAGOAT]

Definitively better. If we're including postseason play, I would take 1990/1993/1994/1995/1997 Ewing over EVERY version of Dwight.

Alonzo? I have no qualms there seeing as though they're pretty similar.

Zo could actually shoot outside the paint and had better touch around the basket, IMO.

Ik rebounding isn't really offense or defense but Dwight's better than both guys. Definitely disagree with some of the years you listed like 95 or 97. Dwight was pretty good in the playoffs in 09 even with the weak Finals and you cant blame him for losing vs the Hawks in 11(his best year) since he was the only who showed up.

[aj1987]

How hard is it to understand that Dwight wont be "Ewing on Roids" defensively in the 90s?

Have been talking about them defensively the whole time yet you keep blabbering about this "complete player" nonsense
Dude, you think blocks are a good indicator of good defense. You seriously should stop post. Just embarrassing yourself.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Dude, you think blocks are a good indicator of good defense. You seriously should stop post. Just embarrassing yourself.

Great avy:applause: :applause:

[fourkicks44]

Rebounding is a massive part of both defense and offense.

Good rebounding = good defense.

[Reggie43]

Dude, you think blocks are a good indicator of good defense. You seriously should stop post. Just embarrassing yourself.

Dude you never saw Ewing play outside youtube videos so your opinion means nothing so you should stop posting yourself. Blocks are a good indicator of good defense as with defensive rebounding, never said anything about them being the only basis. You asked for stats but when I gave you blocks you just whined away :facepalm

[aj1987]

Dude you never saw Ewing play outside youtube videos so your opinion means nothing so you should stop posting yourself. Blocks are a good indicator of good defense as with defensive rebounding, never said anything about them being the only basis. You asked for stats but when I gave you blocks you just whined away :facepalm
Blocks and rebounding are not an indicator of good defense. A player can average 15 rebounds, 2 steals, and 2 blocks a game, but if he lets the opposing player score on him at will, it means that he's not a good defensive player.

Good god, you're retarded. This is why casual fans should not post on basketball boards. Let me give you some more defensive stats.

DRtg:

Dwight - 99
Ewing - 99

DBPM:

Dwight - 2.9
Ewing - 2.5

DWS/Season:

Dwight - 5.1
Ewing - 4.8

[Reggie43]

Blocks and rebounding are not an indicator of good defense. A player can average 15 rebounds, 2 steals, and 2 blocks a game, but if he lets the opposing player score on him at will, it means that he's not a good defensive player.

Good god, you're retarded. This is why casual fans should not post on basketball boards. Let me give you some more defensive stats.

DRtg:

Dwight - 99
Ewing - 99

DBPM:

Dwight - 2.9
Ewing - 2.5

DWS/Season:

Dwight - 5.1
Ewing - 4.8

Again you never saw Ewing play and now your relying on advanced stats without context :roll: :roll: :roll:

I know you could easily google his numbers but dont act like you know everything about Ewing by looking at his stats :facepalm

[Prime_Shaq]

Rebounding is a massive part of both defense and offense.

Good rebounding = good defense.
Agree with the first part but disagree with the second. For example: Kevin Love in Minny was a fantastic rebounder, his defense left something to be desired

[aj1987]

Again you never saw Ewing play and now your relying on advanced stats without context
Judging by your posts, you never actually watched ANY basketball.


I know you could easily google his numbers but dont act like you know everything about Ewing by looking at his stats :facepalm
But high blocks and rebounds are an indicator of great defense doe... :facepalm

You know a poster never actually watched an entire game of basketball and knows jack about it, when they say that blocks and rebounds are a good indicator of good defense.

[Reggie43]

Judging by your posts, you never actually watched ANY basketball.


But high blocks and rebounds are an indicator of great defense doe... :facepalm

You know a poster never actually watched an entire game of basketball and knows jack about it, when they say that blocks and rebounds are a good indicator of good defense.

Again you never saw Ewing play. GTFOH.

[aj1987]

Again you never saw Ewing play. GTFOH.
Again, you never saw ANYONE play. GTFOH.