Top 6 reasons MJ > Lebron for when CLE wins it this year - 2016 version

[3ball]

.
The scoring gap is more significant than people realize


Similar to 2011 (when Wade led the team in playoff scoring), the Cavs are so stacked that they don't need Lebron to lead them in scoring - he trails Kyrie by 2 ppg, whereas the Bulls needed Jordan to be scoring leader for every playoff series of his career by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).

So Jordan's scoring edge on his teammates is 17 points bigger than Lebron's scoring edge on his teammates.



Jordan's statistical advantages control the game better


Jordan's scored 5.5 more ppg in playoffs with better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) and clutch - these things control the game better than Lebron's 2.5 def rebound edge (with less offensive rebound) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 5.5 more points on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.. Can you imagine if Lebron averaged 5.5 more ppg with better efficiency?.. He'd be on a completely different level.



Lebron can't shoot, and many of today's top scorers can't either


This season, Lebron shot 31% on 3-pointers and 37% from midrange, and he's been a sub-par shooter for most of his career - this includes missing over 80% of his jumpshots in 2 different Finals, which is probably a record.. Overall, his midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of 13 seasons (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40), while his career 3-point percentage is 31% in the playoffs (34% in RS).

The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL have sub-par 3-point and midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12338297&postcount=47) efficiency, but they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he was a goat midrange shooter (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12373019&postcount=26), which gives him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.



Jordan's stats occurred in the UNSPACED phase of the modern era:


That's a tougher time period than today's SPACED phase of the modern era.. Specifically, Lebron and Curry's teams take 30 three-pointers per game, compared to 5 per game for the 1991 Bulls.. So it's statistical fact that Lebron and Curry achieve their stats WITH teammates spacing the floor, while Jordan achieved his stats WITHOUT teammates spacing the floor.

Obviously, Jordan's stats would explode in today's spacing.. Just look at Lebron and Westbrook - Jordan has same or better athleticism, but they can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12338297&postcount=47), while he had goat midrange efficiency, much better than Curry's (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12373019&postcount=26).

Essentially, MJ had Lebron/Westbrook's athleticism and better midrange shooting than Steph Curry.



Lebron employs a suboptimal style that makes a ring highly unlikely (requiring collusion)


Specifically, he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking), and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing).. Here's the APG and assisted rate of every key teammate:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709473&postcount=1


Lebron's ball monopolization results in a sophomoric brand of basketball and predictable, play-finishing teammates that can't succeed against the best playoff teams.. A weak brand of basketball and underperforming teammates results in the TEAM underperforming and losing as the favorite (2009 ECF, 2010 ECF, 2011 Finals) and when it's 50/50 (2014).
.

[3ball]

.
Jordan was a better defender


Just look at the 2015 Finals - even WITH Lebron shooting 39% and allowing Iggy an extra 10 ppg, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he shoots 50% and holds Iggy to his normal 7 ppg, the Cavs win easily.

Jordan never let a role player get 10 ppg above his average, and he never shot 39% against single-coverage, which is why he never lost in the Finals like Lebron did.

The 2015 Finals was no fluke - Lebron let Kawhi score 10 ppg above his average and get FMVP of 2014 Finals.. Overall, Lebron has 4 all-defensive selections, compared to Jordan's 9, plus a DPOY award in the golden age for big men and towering shot-blockers.



Jordan was a better all-round player


Even though Jordan's scoring load was FAR greater than Lebron's, Jordan led his team in passing just like Lebron did - specifically, he led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of teammate field goals.

Jordan's goat scoring, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the goat performance and the biggest load ever carried.

[nathanjizzle]

sick

[Uncle Drew]

Top 6 reasons why OP is a ******.

[Long Duck Dong]

Stanemptive Strike

[PP34Deuce]

This is just sad. Player stalking and hating while arguing facts but deep down scorned like a groupie who didn't get invited on the vip bus.

[SouBeachTalents]

OP must be a big hit at parties

[ShawkFactory]

It should say the "May 19th, 2016 version".

That way people won't be confused as to which 2016 version you're talking about, because there's been too many to count.

[stalkerforlife]

You're doing Jordan such an injustice when you mention Bran in the same sentence as him.

I'm starting to think you're actually a Bran fan.

[Uncle Drew]

I'm starting to think you're actually a Bran fan.
You only figured this out now? 3ball is the biggest LeBron fan, or should I say Jordan hater (hence his name being 3ball). By making millions of threads about Jordan; praising him, admiring him, defending his dick size, he will reach his ultimate goal: have this forum turn against Jordan. And it is working.

It's genius, but creepy.

[3ball]

It should say the "May 19th, 2016 version".

That way people won't be confused as to which 2016 version you're talking about, because there's been too many to count.


I made an identical thread last season before the Cavs went to the Finals and lost:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378083


So I'm doing the same thing again this year in advance of the Cavs impending Finals loss.

You don't think that I'm serious about the Cavs winning do you?... :yaohappy:

It's all a troll... 2/7 incoming... :banana:

[ShawkFactory]

I made an identical thread last season before the Cavs went to the Finals and lost:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378083


So I'm doing the same thing again this year in advance of the Cavs impending Finals loss.

You don't think that I'm serious about the Cavs winning do you?... :yaohappy:

It's all a troll... 2/7 incoming... :banana:
:sleeping

[3ball]

:sleeping
yeah right..

translation: i asked a question and now that i've been bitch-slapped, i'm going to post an emoticon

[ShawkFactory]

yeah right..

translation: i asked a question and now that i've been bitch-slapped, i'm going to post an emoticon
So I DID ask a question? Gotcha, I was confused for a bit.

[Bankaii]

Lebron > Ordan and that's all that matters

[3ball]

Lebron > Ordan and that's all that matters



...NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
..(all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)



.......................Midrange Efficiency .

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202
M Jordan. 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 43.2%.. 476/1101

Lebron.. 2004 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 33.2%.. 183/551
Lebron.. 2005 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.0%.. 217/602
Lebron.. 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.4%.. 242/630
Lebron.. 2007 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 35.1%.. 204/581
Lebron.. 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259


Lebron's midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of 13 seasons, while his 3-point percentage is 31% in the playoffs (34% in RS).

The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12338297) have poor midrange and 3-point efficiency, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows good athletes easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had goat midrange efficiency, which would give him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrook and company.

[3ball]

.
...NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
..(all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)



.......................Midrange Efficiency .

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202
M Jordan. 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 43.2%.. 476/1101

Lebron.. 2004 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 33.2%.. 183/551
Lebron.. 2005 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.0%.. 217/602
Lebron.. 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.4%.. 242/630
Lebron.. 2007 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 35.1%.. 204/581
Lebron.. 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259


Lebron's midrange percentage is below 40% for 10 of 13 seasons and his career 3-point percentage is only 31% in the playoffs.

The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) have sub-par 3-point and midrange efficiency, but they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he had goat midrange efficiency, even better than Curry's (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12373019&postcount=26), which gives him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.. MJ had Lebron/Westbrook's athleticism, with better midrange shooting than Steph Curry.. That's the goat
.

[pauk]

oh ok, thanks 3ball, i can now very logically disdain that Lebron (or any player/team) accomplishment, the Finals and hell even the NBA... just because Jordan existed...

[Smoke117]

Lebron > Ordan and that's all that matters

This.

[ShawkFactory]

Did you seriously just bump your own thread with the same fvckin post? :roll:

[tmacattack33]

Pre-emptive threads about Lebron winning the championship? :oldlol:

The King got you shook :rockon:

[FKAri]

Bump. OP is a phaggit

[Nilocon165]

Re post

[k0kakw0rld]

The definition of insecurity

[Gileraracer]

I know 50 NBA players better than Lebron "choker" James.

[Dray n Klay]

I made an identical thread last season before the Cavs went to the Finals and lost:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378083


So I'm doing the same thing again this year in advance of the Cavs impending Finals loss.

You don't think that I'm serious about the Cavs winning do you?... :yaohappy:

It's all a troll... 2/7 incoming... :banana:


:yaohappy:


:hammertime: :hammertime: :dancin

[J Shuttlesworth]

I know 50 NBA players better than Lebron "choker" James.
How come this dude straight disappeared? :biggums:

[warriorfan]

How come this dude straight disappeared? :biggums:
Says the guy who crawled into his hole for over 6 months after the 2015 Finals. :lol

[pauk]

Lame reasons... if Lebron wins it again Jordan will still have 2 more rings / fmvps and 1 more mvp (and 1 more dpoy).... its really that simple, will you ever stop with the insecurity 3ball...

[Smoke117]

Lame reasons... if Lebron wins it again Jordan will still have 2 more rings / fmvps and 1 more mvp (and 1 more dpoy).... its really that simple, will you ever stop with the insecurity 3ball...

Says the future 3ball of Lebron in 10-15 years.

[pauk]

Says the future 3ball of Lebron in 10-15 years.

To grow 10-15 years older, wiser and even more unprejudiced & intelligent of a basketball fan... and then all of the sudden discredit all the players performances, milestones, accolades etc. the teams, all the eras, freakin basketball itself, everything... just because its not coming from one player (staning Jordan, the undisputed GOAT for probable infinity, only a moron would be so insecure/envious of some player faaaaaar away from Jordan)... That would make me somebody childish, somebody who is not basketball fan first and foremost, the biggest opposite of who i am and will be especially in 10-15 years... For that to happen what you are saying is basically i will suffer a mental disorder or something in 10-15 years... thanks...

I do like Lebrons game... yay... but thats where it stops... him & his game is not clouding my basketball judgement...