Celtics want to trade 3rd pick for Okafor

[Duderonomy]

What do you think Avery +3 for Okafor?

Can Stevens get Punchy to play defense?

Things could get interesting
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/batman/images/9/94/The_Joker_(CR)_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110306015744

[NBAGOAT]

that's too much for Okafor.

[Snarky Narc]

Too much for him given his lack of defense and general immaturity.

[Klay 3D]

Dragan/Buddy or Okafor...
3&D/sharp shooter or skilled low post...

I like Okafor more for the Celtics, and I'm sure Philly wants Buddy. Simmons/Buddy/Embiid/Noel is simply awesome.

Celtics should do the 3rd+Avery for Okafor+24th.

[JohnnySic]

Yeah too much. Pick 3 and someone less valuable than Bradley.

[imdaman99]

Bradley is more valuable than a throw-in, no? I guess they have to make salaries match up?

[bdreason]

Okafor is a dinosaur. The modern league favors agile, defensive Bigs who can shoot. Okafor looks like Al Jeff 2.0 to me.

[Tking714]

Proven 20ppg-ish scorer vs a kid this year that would be a maybe? Always go with the proven. Considering last year Jahlil was in the same spot as these kids. No one in this draft is as good as the top 5 of last year. Simmons may be better than Russell but thats it

[Sarcastic]

Philly can get a better offer for Okafor.

[PP34Deuce]

I actually like it!

Okafor can score and rebound. Defensively, he's subpar but if you pair him with an athletic Rangy PF, it can absolutely work.

What combination works best? I don't like him and Sullinger together-Not enough athletiscm.

Maybe Amir and Okafor? Mobile PF shot blocker with a back to the basket punishing scorer.

[Sarcastic]

I actually like it!

Okafor can score and rebound. Defensively, he's subpar but if you pair him with an athletic Rangy PF, it can absolutely work.

What combination works best? I don't like him and Sullinger together-Not enough athletiscm.

Maybe Amir and Okafor? Mobile PF shot blocker with a back to the basket punishing scorer.

Of course Boston likes it. They easily win the trade.

[Thorpesaurous]

I don't like the fit with Okafor. I'd be more inclined to package the later picks and try to see if they'd be willing to part with Embiid who is total question mark. Or even Noel for rim protection.

I do think Bradley or Smart is available given they keep the pick, because it seems more and more like it has to be Murray, at which point one of the two defensive minded pieces might be worth moving on from. I'd probably prefer to keep Bradley, who's a better shooter, and who's success is less tied to him having the ball, which isn't going to happen a ton with Thomas around. Murray actually has a lot of with the ball value too, but Thomas isn't exactly a pure PG, so pairing him with a secondary playmaker makes sense to me. I guess it just depends what combo you value most.
Murray is Playmaking and Shooting
Smart is Playmaking and Defense
Bradley is Defense and Shooting.

It's a tough choice. I actually think Thomas' best spot may still be as an elite bench scorer. Playing the three young guys together would allow for a weird combination of size and shooting and defense and playmaking on the perimeter, even though Murray isn't the top end athlete people like, but with the other two, and Murray's size, it could definitely work.


If I'm moving the three pick and a piece, I'm swinging for the fences and seeing if I can pry Boogie Cousins out of Sacramento. They say no, but he could force it, and it wouldn't be a terrible way to take a mulligan with Vlade and Joerger now being fully in place.

[GINOBILI!]

I like it too.

[kurple]

Okafor is a dinosaur. The modern league favors agile, defensive Bigs who can shoot. Okafor looks like Al Jeff 2.0 to me.
Not every team has Steph

Okafor is arguably the most skillled post player in the league already

[bdreason]

Not every team has Steph

Okafor is arguably the most skilled post player in the league already


Is there a single team in the league whose offense is built around post play?

Only team that comes to mind is San Antonio, and I think that was just a result of Pop designing his offense to try and beat the Warriors.


Look, I love post play... but it's a dying art in the NBA. If you're going to try and base your offense around a post player, he better be able to get you 30ppg on 50%... otherwise it's simply more optimal to play outside-in with modern NBA rules.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I think 3rd pick for Okafor straight will be good, adding Bradley is too much for Celtics.

[ClipperRevival]

The 3rd pick means little in this top 2 heavy draft. That is way too little for Okafor, who I think will be a BEAST in due time. People don't realize how freakishly long he is (7'5" wingspan, 9'2.5" reach) along with huge hands.

He's got great touch, feel for the game, post moves, light feet and that big booty to shield guys. This guy is going to be an offensive force in due time, just watch. You can't teach a lot of the things he has.

[ClipperRevival]

As a Laker fan, I would give up Russell and Clarkson in a nanosecond for Okafor. Lakers out thought themselves in last year's draft. They should've just went with the safe choice in Okafor.

[AirTupac]

As a Laker fan, I would give up Russell and Clarkson in a nanosecond for Okafor. Lakers out thought themselves in last year's draft. They should've just went with the safe choice in Okafor.

What a stupid idea man :facepalm

Mitch and Jim have an EXTENSIVE track record of eyeing out the talent. Jerry West saw the same in D'Angelo, And you want to get rid of Clarkson and Russell for Okafor lmfao :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Derka]

Not only don't I want Okafor (give me Noel), that's entirely too much for him.

[Optimus Prime]

D'Bustaslow for Okafor. Undo the tragic mistake of last year and get the Lakers back on track before it's too late.

Get it done, Mitch.

:kobe:

[miggyme1]

sixers would be dumb to give up a proven player for a player going into his 3rd year and hasn't played 1 minute of nba ball. im sorry...okafor has hall of fame written all over him. embiid at best will be a poor mans dikembe/bol........sorry

[Wally450]

We need a rim protector. Id pass on this. Try to package some sort of deal for Cousins if they're willing or try to go hard for Whiteside.

[LilEddyCurry]

Okafor is so damn underrated. A post-player rookie on a team with no shooting or good point guard averaging 17.3 points is impressive. He has good size as well and his foot-speed is not slow.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Okafor is so damn underrated. A post-player rookie on a team with no shooting or good point guard averaging 17.3 points is impressive. He was good size as well and his foot-speed is not slow.
This. I don't care what anyone says, guys like Okafor are valuable on ANY team. I'd ditch Bradley in a heartbeat for this dude

[LilEddyCurry]

This. I don't care what anyone says, guys like Okafor are valuable on ANY team. I'd ditch Bradley in a heartbeat for this dude
Would you rather give up Smart or Bradley as a package with the 3rd pick?

[90sgoat]

Okafor is a soft bum.

[fourkicks44]

'Celtics want' :oldlol:

[Duderonomy]

We need a rim protector. Id pass on this. Try to package some sort of deal for Cousins if they're willing or try to go hard for Whiteside.
Stevens is getting the most out of roster. Imagine how good Okafor would be with in that system. Okafor is Boston's best chance for a future superstar.

[AI09]

I don't think there's a talent better than Okafor at pick 3 so I wouldn't do this if I were philly, we can get the number 2 pick using okafor. I'd be open to pick 3 and 16 for Noel and mb pick 26 gets the deal done

[Prime_Shaq]

Not every team has Steph

Okafor is arguably the most skillled post player in the league already
He still isn't as good as Al Jefferson

[Derka]

This. I don't care what anyone says, guys like Okafor are valuable on ANY team. I'd ditch Bradley in a heartbeat for this dude
The Celtics succeed when they play defense and push the pace of the game. These are two things Jahlil Okafor is singularly unsuited towards. He plays no defense, can't protect the rim and doesn't really care to and is not a big who can get up and down the floor with ease because he's as athletic as a kitchen sponge. Top it off with a piss poor attitude? No thanks.

[keep-itreal]

Do it.

get Jahlil Okafor and get Jimmy Butler or Kevin Durant.

Instant contender

[Edgar Friendly]

I'd be open to pick 3 and 16 for Noel and mb pick 26 gets the deal done

:roll:

GOBB stfu old man and get some sleep

[JonatanRey]

If I were the Celtics, I would trade for Jokic.

[kurple]

He still isn't as good as Al Jefferson
That is extremely arguable

And Steph wasnt better than prime Abdul-Rauf as a rookie.. Whats your point?

Rookie Okafor >>>> Rookie Al-Jeff, DMC, Favors, Brook Lopez, Jonas, Kanter.... Pretty much anyone not named Towns or Jokic

[GOBB]

:roll:

GOBB stfu old man and get some sleep

You are bright thinking that's me. :facepalm

[Smoke117]

He still isn't as good as Al Jefferson

I can never get over how overrated Jefferson's post game is. Every shot he takes goes AWAY FROM THE BASKET...he's a high volume scorer who can't play defense...which is just horrible for a center.

[bdreason]

That is extremely arguable

And Steph wasnt better than prime Abdul-Rauf as a rookie.. Whats your point?

Rookie Okafor >>>> Rookie Al-Jeff, DMC, Favors, Brook Lopez, Jonas, Kanter.... Pretty much anyone not named Towns or Jokic


Look at that list of names;

Al Jeff - Doesn't even start for a team that barely makes the EC playoffs.
DMC - Can't even get his team close to a playoff spot as the primary option.
Favors - The 3rd or 4th option on a non-playoff team.
Lopez - 1st option of one of the worst offensive teams in the league.
Jonas - Team refuses to even let him touch the ball most of the time. Instead opting for his two guards to chuck relentlessly.
Kanter - 3rd or 4th option. Doesn't even start.



Low-post Bigs are dinosaurs. Modern analytics show that playing the game from the outside-in is simply more efficient with modern NBA rules. These are not my opinions, these are facts. Just look at the league, there isn't a single example of a successful team built around a low-post scorer. Modern Bigs need to be able to defend the rim, defend the pick and roll, rebound, and shoot. I'd say low-post scoring probably falls around the 5th or 6th most important aspect for modern Bigs... and you want to trade the 3rd overall pick + an elite wing defender for a player whose primary attribute is low-post scoring, and whose weakness's are lateral movement, rim defense, and shooting.

[Kblaze8855]

These are not my opinions, these are facts. Just look at the league, there isn't a single example of a successful team built around a low-post scorer.

Just depends on the scorer and the team. There arent many players to do it with. If Shaq, Hakeem, or Duncan came out in the draft they would be worth playing that way.

Not like the 3 being worth more just became true last year when a team finally won with its best player being mostly a 3 point shooter after 37 years of midrange shooters, attackers, post players, and great defenders leading teams to rings.

For 20+ years teams have had their role players shooting. Hakeems Rockets had 4 players hit 25+ threes in the playoffs. The 14 spurs had 4 as well...and Horry(46) and Kenny smith(44) made as many as Danny Green(48) and Manu(41) who led the Spurs. And the rockets played one less game.

So its not like teams just now noticed that the shot is smart....its just that everyone is doing the same thing instead of having teams at either end of the extreme with a good group in the middle. There really isnt much to say a team built around a great post player with shooters everywhere(how many teams used to do it) couldnt be great now. There just isnt anyone trying to do it.

Nobody tried to be the Warriors till someone did. Well let me take that back....Dantoni tried it with Diaw at center making plays and playing small ball. But it wasnt the norm. Nelly tried it 20+ years ago with guys like Billy Owens and Paul Pressey before him playing 1-4. Owens I saw play the 5 and make plays....

We have just hit the point where it went so far one way people act like any other way is madness. Like how people spazzed out when the league had a few 3 happy teams when the conventional wisdom was....go inside. Then it became inside out....then outside in...now...just outside....and drive just enough to keep your shooters open.

You can win with any style provided you have the right players.

These days you would need a lot of shooters to win with a post player....but thats been the case for some time. Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, and so on have been kicking it out for some time now.

If Hakeem came along a team would just play along the lines of his Rockets but this time Kenny would set the finals record with 10 threes instead of 7.

Teams generally have like 2 more shooters than they used to. And they do use them more....but even the interior teams like Shaq/Kobes lakers had all their guys to kick out to.

You dont have to be on either extreme. You could win playing in the middle with the right players.

Dwight did lead a team to like 60 wins and the finals by them shooting record numbers of threes around him still getting the ball an awful lot. What did he have to get them to the finals? 46/13?

It can still be done with the right guy.

Okafor might not be the guy. But it can be done.

Far as him being worth a #3 pick?

If he stayed in college he might be the #1 pick right now. This isnt striking me as the strongest of drafts.

[bdreason]

^^^

You just compared Okafor to Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan. If you think he's gonna be those guys, sure, build around him. Otherwise, if you build around a player whose main value is low-post scoring, and he can't get you ~30ppg on 50%, your team will not survive in the modern league.

Another discernible difference is that all of those players, as well as Dwight Howard, were paint/rim protectors. So even when they weren't scoring at an efficient rate, they were playing a key role on defense. Okafor, at least from what we've seen, is slow-footed, and a poor defender. That makes him a liability on defense in the modern NBA (see Kanter, Al Jeff).

Unless the rules change, I don't see a team ever building a successful franchise around a low-post scorer. Any franchise Big who can efficiently score on the low box will still need to be able to shoot the ball and protect the paint. For example, I could see the T-Wolves being successful building around KAT, and he may turn out to be an efficient low-post scorer... but if that's all he can do, that team will fail.

Ironically, I think it's actually more effective to post Guards/Wings these days. You see quite a few of the top teams, including the Warriors, Spurs, Thunder, etc. who successfully use their guards/wings to post, because of the small stature of many modern NBA guards/wings. Posting with a guard/wing also allows for more offensive rebounding, as opposed to posting a Big, which typically results in one shot because of defensive positioning.

[Optimus Prime]

I think Okafor's ceiling is regular All Star. Which is a heckuva a lot better than D'Bustaslow, who will be out of the league in 5 years.

3 point shootouts might be the fad right now, but a low post player with skills can still get you points pretty easily, especially with how soft the NBA is these days. Okafor can get you buckets and rebounds, though he doesn't play much D, so he'd be a great #2 or #3 guy. He's not someone you can build your franchise around in today's NBA, but his skills still have value.

:kobe:

[T_L_P]

Okafor is a dinosaur. The modern league favors agile, defensive Bigs who can shoot. Okafor looks like Al Jeff 2.0 to me.

Truth bombs.

[SummrtimeEmbiid]

Avery Bradley is worth a lot more than a throw-in piece & I don't see Philly getting a better offer than the #3 pick plus whatever other fodder the Celtics wanna throw in there.

Personally, I'd rather the see Boston swindle Doc outta Blake Griffin for their picks.

[ClipperRevival]

Just watch, Okafor is going to be a BEAST offensively. He's going to feast on the small ball line ups. He's had one of the quietest 17.5 ppg rookie seasons ever due to KAT's emergence. Can't teach what he has (touch, huge hands, light feet, feel for the game, post moves and that big booty). He's just got way too many positive traits not to be a dominant low post scorer.

[ClipperRevival]

All Okafor needs is an ultra athletic 4 that can protect the rim, be the roll man and be the garbage man. And Philly already has that in Noel. If i am Philly, I am super excited about the future, especially given the fact that they will probably pick up Simmons. Get a couple of perimeter players who can shoot and attack the paint and they could be dangerous in a couple of years.

[KingPush]

Lmao Celtic fans really think the 3rd pick is too much for Okafor? :roll:


This draft is even weaker than last years

Have fun with Buddy Hield even though you already have Bradley

[Kblaze8855]

^^^

You just compared Okafor to Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan. If you think he's gonna be those guys, sure, build around him. Otherwise, if you build around a player whose main value is low-post scoring, and he can't get you ~30ppg on 50%, your team will not survive in the modern league.

Another discernible difference is that all of those players, as well as Dwight Howard, were paint/rim protectors. So even when they weren't scoring at an efficient rate, they were playing a key role on defense. Okafor, at least from what we've seen, is slow-footed, and a poor defender. That makes him a liability on defense in the modern NBA (see Kanter, Al Jeff).

Unless the rules change, I don't see a team ever building a successful franchise around a low-post scorer. Any franchise Big who can efficiently score on the low box will still need to be able to shoot the ball and protect the paint. For example, I could see the T-Wolves being successful building around KAT, and he may turn out to be an efficient low-post scorer... but if that's all he can do, that team will fail.

Ironically, I think it's actually more effective to post Guards/Wings these days. You see quite a few of the top teams, including the Warriors, Spurs, Thunder, etc. who successfully use their guards/wings to post, because of the small stature of many modern NBA guards/wings. Posting with a guard/wing also allows for more offensive rebounding, as opposed to posting a Big, which typically results in one shot because of defensive positioning.


Bolded my primary issue.

What exactly is surviving?

You know that 29 teams must lose right? And even the team that wins loses the next year most of the time. There are teams that have not been in the finals in 60 years. Often good...sometimes great. But not really doing anything.

Is a 47 win team that loses in the first or second round surviving/successful? If not.....are there only 4 living teams at any moment?

You can build a good team with any style with the right pieces and coaching.

Everyone is trying to do it the same at the moment....so of course the best teams play outside. All teams play outside relative to the past.

The shitty teams play outside too. And some stay shitty for 10-12 years at a time.

It isnt that you cant win with low post play...its that we dont have many good post players because people arent teaching bigmen to play that way anymore. There is no best way to play.....basketball changes. It didnt used to be a better style. It isnt better now. Its just different.

If the league had Shaq, Drob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, Malone, Barkley, and so on all at the same time im sure there would be winning teams with those players playing inside. If you can do it with Dwights bitch ass you could do it with Patrick Ewing.

My issue isnt Okafor so much as that his offensive skillset is useless. Anything that puts the ball in the basket can have a winning offense built around it. It isnt necessarily...likely. But it isnt likely for any approach to work. No matter what youre more likely to be terrible or ok than worth a damn.

That "The way we do it now is the only way it will EVER work" view is why it took so long for people to accept outside shooting in the first place.

Its just a slow process because the current stars always inspire the next couple generations.

6'9''-6'11'' kids wanna be Lebron and Kevin Durant now.

[Duderonomy]

Okafor and/or Noel on the market :eek:

What are the Sixers thinking? :facepalm

[Derka]

I've already said my piece on Okafor. I'd take Noel in a heart beat.