LeBron has been the underdog 6/7 times in the finals

[Im Still Ballin]

2007 - Obviously

2011 - Favorite

2012 - Thunders were strong favorites

2013 - Spurs swept WCF and Miami went 7 in the ECF... Betting was on Spurs side... Took a goliath game 6/7 effort from LeBron to win the series

2014 - Obviously

2015 - Obviously

2016 - He'll be the underdog AGAIN (73 win goliath GSW)

Kobe was favorite in all 7/7 finals appearances

MJ was favorite in all 6/6 finals appearances

[SouBeachTalents]

'12 & '13 were relative tossups, and I'd be surprised if the Heat weren't the betting favorites in 2013. Even with as lopsided as the series turned out, I bet '14 was basically a toss up as well

[Im Still Ballin]

'12 & '13 were relative tossups, and I'd be surprised if the Heat weren't the betting favorites in 2013. Even with as lopsided as the series turned out, I bet '14 was basically a toss up as well
Nope

2012 were clear favorites

2013 was slightly SAS due to recent form

2014 was clearly SAS

[Asukal]

Leflop has a free pass to the finals every year, fact. :oldlol: :hammerhead:

[fiddy]

OP off his meds again :facepalm

[Real14]

OP is beyond retarded.

[coin24]

Poor OP has never been anyone's favourite

[Im Still Ballin]

Poor OP has never been anyone's favourite
This is an American website kid

Favorite

[Dr Hawk]

So you mean he chokes the 100% of the times he is the favorite? And that he would be 0 for 7 in Kobe's case and 0 for 6 in Michael's case?

That's harsh man

[ArbitraryWater]

'12 & '13 were relative tossups, and I'd be surprised if the Heat weren't the betting favorites in 2013. Even with as lopsided as the series turned out, I bet '14 was basically a toss up as well

Nah... Thunder and Spurs were betting favorites both times, I remember.

There should be a way to check?

[Nilocon165]

So you mean he chokes the 100% of the times he is the favorite? And that he would be 0 for 7 in Kobe's case and 0 for 6 in Michael's case?

That's harsh man
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[scuzzy]

This is an American website kid

Favorite
Slayed that Lawnmowing cashew boy :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

'12 & '13 were relative tossups, and I'd be surprised if the Heat weren't the betting favorites in 2013. Even with as lopsided as the series turned out, I bet '14 was basically a toss up as well

And 2014 was far from a toss up... SAS were considerable favorites

[bigkingsfan]

Dirk swept the two time reigning champs, SEVERE UNDERDOG

[sd3035]

If you take Lebron's known choking out of the equation, his team was the heavy favorite in 6/7 finals

2007 was the only real underdog year

[diamenz]

This is an American website kid

Favorite

where 95% of the bron stans are 15 year olds from foreign countries.

[SouBeachTalents]

And 2014 was far from a toss up... SAS were considerable favorites

From what I could find

2012 Finals
http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-finals-prop-bets-2012-betting-odds-miami-heat-vs-oklahoma-city-thunder-702485

2013 Finals
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/6/4400960/2013-nba-finals-odds-heat-spurs

2014 Finals
http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2014/06/02/nba-finals-odds-spurs-heat-favorite-2014

[coin24]

So you mean he chokes the 100% of the times he is the favorite? And that he would be 0 for 7 in Kobe's case and 0 for 6 in Michael's case?

That's harsh man


:lol :lol

poor baby di.ck op just wants some attention

[Prime_Shaq]

Heat were favourites in 2011,2012 and 2013. He was only the underdog in 2007,2014 and 2015.

[ArbitraryWater]

From what I could find

2012 Finals
http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-finals-prop-bets-2012-betting-odds-miami-heat-vs-oklahoma-city-thunder-702485

2013 Finals
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/6/4400960/2013-nba-finals-odds-heat-spurs

2014 Finals
http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2014/06/02/nba-finals-odds-spurs-heat-favorite-2014

really surprised about 2013.. but other sites back it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Heat were favourites in 2011,2012 and 2013. He was only the underdog in 2007,2014 and 2015 (and will be in 2016).

Thats factually false. Heat were not favorites in 2012.. but as just evidenced, they were in 2013.

Favorite twice, and two titles.. seems about right.

[Prime_Shaq]

Thats factually false. Heat were not favorites in 2012.. but as just evidenced, they were in 2013.

Favorite twice, and two titles.. seems about right.
I don't really see how the Heat weren't the favourites though, a motivated veteran team aiming to silence the critics and erase the memory of the 2011 debacle against an up and coming team of young stars that had no final experience on their stars.

[GimmeThat]

the difference between rankings and vegas odds is that there are type of basketball being played right now. With vegas odds it's just how well someone perform that very particular night.

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't really see how the Heat weren't the favourites though, a motivated veteran team aiming to silence the critics and erase the memory of the 2011 debacle against an up and coming team of young stars that had no final experience on their stars.

Were you a fan at the time? The Thunder weren't just the betting favorites, journalists and what not and the general consensus had them as well.

How could you not? They had the better record, HCA, just destroyed a tougher conference, the KD/RW/Harden/Ibaka core, backdoor sweeped the Spurs who were on an 18-0 winning streak, swept the defending champions, and blitzed the Lakers in five games who were still a powerhouse around the time, just one year off their back to back titles.

Its easy to see why they were:


https://i.gyazo.com/98655e9282aaf9c15580d4031dcbd828.png

Every Casino and betting site pinned them favorites. They just were.


ELO Rating did, too. Thunder had an estimated 67% winning chance, and ended up one of 18 teams in history to lose with a favorable ELO rating.

[Disaprine]

:roll:

[Genaro]

He was the underdog in 07 and 15.
12 is a toss up, people only thought Thunder would win cause Lebron was a known chocker because of 11.
He was the favorite in 2011, 13 and 14.

[VIP2000]

His team was the underdog in 2007, 2012, and 2015.

The Heat were heavily favored against the Mavs. After their Finals loss against the Mavs, people thought that the the Heat would fall short again against the Thunder, especially after losing the first game.

2013 and 2014 were toss-ups.

[ArbitraryWater]

He was the underdog in 07 and 15.
12 is a toss up, people only thought Thunder would win cause Lebron was a known chocker because of 11.
He was the favorite in 2011, 13 and 14.

Making up shit is fun isnt it lol

He was factually the underdog in 2012 and 2014, nothing you say changes that, unless you post Vegas' lines, or whatever Casino's or betting sites line that proves otherwise.

I might even do with a simple Prediction by some Expert Crew. Try :cheers:

[kamil]

MJ was favorite in all 6/6 finals appearances

False.

1998 the Bulls were the clear underdogs.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[feyki]

Only 2007 , sorry .

[3ball]

False.

1998 the Bulls were the clear underdogs.



Bulls were underdogs in 1991 too - from NBA.com:



"..the Bulls were considered big underdogs to the Lakers in the Finals and the vast majority of media "experts" predicted an easy Lakers' victory."

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/top-20-moments-1990-91-season.html.

[ArbitraryWater]

Only 2007 , sorry .

:milton


awesome avatar

[3ball]

Lebron had no chance in 2015 Finals


Even with Lebron shooting 39% and allowing Iggy an extra 10 ppg, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he holds Iggy to his normal 7 ppg and shoots 50%, the Cavs win easily.





Not much Lebron could've done in 2007 Finals



Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:



....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3




Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.






Lebron had no chance in 2007 Finals


Not true - despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.





Lebron had no chance in 2014 Finals

Not true - Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3 - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.

[feyki]

:milton


awesome avatar

Thanks .

Also 2015 :hammerhead:

[SouBeachTalents]

Even with Lebron shooting 39% and allowing Iggy an extra 10 ppg, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he holds Iggy to his normal 7 ppg and shoots 50%, the Cavs win easily.




Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:



....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3




Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.




Not true - despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.


Not true - Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3 - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.

I legitimately feel sorry for you

[Sarcastic]

Lebron's history of choking is the only reason they were slight underdogs in 2012. Nobody thought the Thunder were really a better team. It was just presumed that Lebron would come up small again like he did in 2011, 2010, and 2009.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron's history of choking is the only reason they were slight underdogs in 2012. Nobody thought the Thunder were really a better team. It was just presumed that Lebron would come up small again like he did in 2011, 2010, and 2009.

riiiight... tell us more. You dont look at this shit and say '.. okay, I cant be taken seriously when it comes to LeBron lol' ?

[chazzy]

Lost in 09 and 10 as favorite to win it all before the finals

[Sarcastic]

riiiight... tell us more. You dont look at this shit and say '.. okay, I cant be taken seriously when it comes to LeBron lol' ?

So you think Durant, Westbrook, and Harden are better than Lebron, Wade, and Bosh? Why else would that team be favorites in their first ever finals appearance over a team that had been there the year before?

[bigkingsfan]

OKC were the favs heading in, they had homecourt and looked impressive taking down the Spurs.

http://s32.postimg.org/bc5g7dqv9/Untitled.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

OKC were the favs heading in, they had homecourt and looked impressive taking down the Spurs.

http://s32.postimg.org/bc5g7dqv9/Untitled.jpg

ISH with revisionist history once again

[Sarcastic]

ISH with revisionist history once again

It was 12 to 8. Slight edge to Thunder. But do you honestly think so many Lebron nut huggers would pick against him of he didn't choke every year prior?