Stats prove Lebron is on Bird/MJ assist-level, not Magic/Stockton/CP3 level

[3ball]

.
Lebron, Bird and Jordan are within 1 assist of each other, while Lebron is 3+ assists behind Magic/Stockton/CP3.


Career APG Playoffs

MAGIC....L12.4
STOCTON..10.1
CP3.........V9.4

LEBRON.... 6.7
BIRD........ 6.4
JORDAN..N 5.7


Career APG Regular Season

MAGIC....L11.2
STOCTON..10.5
CP3........V10.0

LEBRON.... 6.9
BIRD........ 6.4
JORDAN..N 5.3


So Lebron is on Bird/Jordan's assist level, not Magic/Stockton/CP3.

Btw, assist percentages show that MJ led the Bulls in passing - he had the highest assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of teammate FG's.. In addition to his team-leading passing, Jordan led the Bulls in scoring for every playoff series of his career by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).... and played the best defense ever at his position..

[choppermagic]

The averages look even worse because Lebron hasn't gone through the tail end of his career, like the other players listed. Take Magic, Stockton, etc. at the prime of their careers, and their numbers look even better.

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan is ball hog, nothing we didn't already know.

[greatest-ever]

Well there's nothing wrong with that, i mean Bird and Mj were excellent playmakers and it's unreasonable to expect a 6'8-6'9 guy to be on the level as the all time great point guards at playmaking. Well Magic is an obvious exception.

[Genaro]

The averages look even worse because Lebron hasn't gone through the tail end of his career, like the other players listed. Take Magic, Stockton, etc. at the prime of their careers, and their numbers look even better.
Yes, but not Magic though. He actually never had a drop off. He retired in 91 averaging 12 ast/g. Basically he was in the end of his prime when he found out about the HIV.

[ShawkFactory]

Yea..

[GimmeThat]

he's labeled as a small forward, don't let his steals foo you

[imnew09]

Lebron holds the ball till 5 secs left then pass it up.

:facepalm

[Im Still Ballin]

Usage Rate %

100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV))

Stockton:
100 x ((10.3 + 0.44 x 4.4 + 3.2) x (19830 / 5)) / (2969 X (6729 + 0.44 x 2379 + 1191)

[Hey Yo]

The only reason why MJ's assist avg. is that high is because he turned his teammates into play finishers...... when they were originally play makers.

[CakeorDeath]

Yes, but not Magic though. He actually never had a drop off. He retired in 91 averaging 12 ast/g. Basically he was in the end of his prime when he found out about the HIV.

Only because he retired at 32. LeBron is 31 now. Stockton at 32 (94/95 season) was also averaging 12 assists per game.

If Magic had played as long as Stockton, that career assists per game average would not nearly be as high as it is. He just retired, like you said, before most players start regressing.

It would be interesting to see what the all time assist record would look like if Magic had played into his 40s like Stockton did. I think John would still have the record, as I think Magic's size (6'9" vs. 6'1") would make it more difficult for him to be effective at the PG slot in the late 30s/early 40s years than it was for John.

[Dray n Klay]

Use per 100 possessions




Magic, Jordan, Birds assists are higher due to:


1) Higher FG% in previous eras

2) More possessions in previous eras





Accounting for that, LeBrons assists are Far higher than Jordan or Birds



Misleading thread

[KiiiiNG]

MJ assist-level? That's a huge insult - but we know you're just trolling.

Jordan played on the most stacked teams and STILL couldn't match LBJ's assist numbers. If LeBron played like Magic, he'd average MORE than Johnson. LeBron has been the best SCORER and PASSER in the league at one time - something no other player in history could say! :bowdown:

[CakeorDeath]

MJ assist-level? That's a huge insult - but we know you're just trolling.

Jordan played on the most stacked teams and STILL couldn't match LBJ's assist numbers. If LeBron played like Magic, he'd average MORE than Johnson. LeBron has been the best SCORER and PASSER in the league at one time - something no other player in history could say! :bowdown:

When was LeBron ever the best passer in the league?

[Kvnzhangyay]

Use per 100 possessions




Magic, Jordan, Birds assists are higher due to:


1) Higher FG% in previous eras

2) More possessions in previous eras





Accounting for that, LeBrons assists are Far higher than Jordan or Birds



Misleading thread

This, because 3's, while statistically they are more efficient, have less % chance of going in than 2's, meaning it is harder to get assists now

[CuterThanRubio]

Magic, Stockton, and CP3 have some of the highest home/away assist differentials, while LeBron is only +.2 at home

I already made a thread addressing the faulty stat keeping that Stockton benefited from.

LeBron is a better passer than MJ and Bird on every level, this thread is garbo

[KiiiiNG]

When was LeBron ever the best passer in the league?
He's had an argument since 2004. Who else passes the ball as accurately with as much force? Nobody.

Jordan was never in "best passer" discussions. I think LeBron's the best to this day, and a lot of people agree with me.

[PP34Deuce]

Skip Bayless and Jeff Van Gundy are some of the most critical people of Lebron and even they would say he's easily one of the best passers of all time. Most guys say he is as close to Magic Johnson in passing.

Bird was great, Chris Paul is great, Nash is great. Lebron has their floor general mindset but his athletiscm combined with his smarts makes his passes even more incredible.

[3ball]

.
DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:



Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c


Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%).
.

[Smoke117]

Magic > Jordan

[3ball]

Magic > Jordan



Magic was only 31 years old in 1991, and runner-up for MVP in regular season, but he was utterly destroyed by the MVP winner and goat:


JORDAN 1991 FINALS:. 33/7/11 on 56%
MAGIC.. 1991 FINALS:. 19/7/13 on 43%


Jordan's GOAT two-way performance included being the primary defender on Magic - MJ guarded him for 14 of 20 quarters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12392551&postcount=19), which included holding Magic to 0-0-0 with 1 TO in critical Game 3 OT, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtj8ovhp48&t=6m04s).. (btw, Pippen missed that OT by fouling out).
.

[3ball]

Use per 100 possessions to eliminate differences in the number of POSSESSIONS





Assists Per 100 Possessions (Playoffs)

MAGIC....L15.1
STOCTON..15.4
CP3........V13.0

LEBRON.... 8.7
BIRD........ 7.6
JORDAN..N 7.4


Assists Per 100 Possessions (Regular Season)

STOCTON..16.8
CP3........V14.6
MAGIC....L14.5

LEBRON.... 9.4
BIRD........ 7.9
JORDAN..N 7.0



Lebron, Bird and Jordan are within 1 assist of each other, while Lebron is 6+ assists behind Magic/Stockton/CP3.

So Lebron is on Bird/Jordan's assist level, not Magic/Stockton/CP3.

Jordan achieved nearly the same assists as Lebron with less turnovers - but more importantly, he scored 5.5 ppg more in the playoffs with better clutch and efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) - these things control the game better than Lebron's 2.5 def rebound edge (with less offensive rebound) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 5.5 more points on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.. Can you imagine if Lebron averaged 5.5 more ppg with better efficiency?.. He'd be on a completely different level.

Similar to 2011 (when Wade led the team in playoff scoring), the Cavs are so stacked that they don't need Lebron to lead them in scoring - he trails Kyrie by 2 ppg, whereas the Bulls needed Jordan to be scoring leader for every playoff series of his career by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).. So Jordan's scoring edge on his teammates is 17 points bigger than Lebron's scoring edge on his teammates.

Btw, assist percentages show that MJ led the Bulls in passing - he had the highest assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of teammate FG's.. In addition to his team-leading passing, Jordan led the Bulls in scoring for every playoff series of his career by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).... and played the best defense ever at his position...

[Straight_Ballin]

MJ assist-level? That's a huge insult - but we know you're just trolling.

Jordan played on the most stacked teams and STILL couldn't match LBJ's assist numbers. If LeBron played like Magic, he'd average MORE than Johnson. LeBron has been the best SCORER and PASSER in the league at one time - something no other player in history could say! :bowdown:

lol these kids believe anything some guy on realcavsfans.com tells them. :roll: