LeBron + Current Wade Still Better Than LeBron + Current Cavs

[Foster5k]

Wade... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Wade was looking like Jordan some nights vs Toronto. Better than anything I've seen from Kyrie and Love. Wade basically took Toronto to 7 games by himself.

[Klay 3D]

The Heat with Love would've beat the Raptors.

[mistergreens]

The Heat with Love would've beat the Raptors.

The Heat with Bosh would have beat them. Bosh/Whiteside together and its an easy win. However, Valanciuanas out balanced the scales a bit.

[Foster5k]

The Heat with Love would've beat the Raptors.
:oldlol:

Love was out there looking like garbage vs Toronto. Dude stepped on a ref's foot and acted like he was injured just to get out of the game. Kyrie and Love are trash. These two clowns haven't impressed me any in the playoffs this year or last year.

Kyrie didn't get anywhere in the East without LeBron. Love was putting up empty stats and getting nowhere when he was in Minnesota. These two guys are two of the most overrated scrubs in the NBA.

LeBron with Wade would still dominate the East.

[Klay 3D]

:oldlol:

Love was out there looking like garbage vs Toronto. Dude stepped on a ref's foot and acted like he was injured just to get out of the game. Kyrie and Love are trash.
Wade would actually use him right. Pick and roll dimes and actually feeding the post. You'd get like 2-3 dunks or baby hooks easily every game to get him started. Look what Whiteside gets with no offensive game.

Would you rather have Dragic and McRoberts? lol

[Foster5k]

Wade would actually use him right. Pick and roll dimes and actually feeding the post. You'd get like 2-3 dunks or baby hooks easily every game to get him started. Look what Whiteside gets with no offensive game.

Would you rather have Dragic and McRoberts? lol
Lol, this narrative about LeBron turning guys into spot up shooters is hilarious.

Answer me this... What happen to Love when he was in Minnesota? How far did he carry that team in the West? Yeah.. nowhere. Dude puts up empty stats and we're suppose to believe he's this star player. Cavs looked better last year when Love and Kyrie were on the sidelines watching the game.

[Klay 3D]

Lol, this narrative about LeBron turning guys into spot up shooters is hilarious.

Answer me this... What happen to Love when he was in Minnesota? How far did he carry that team in the West? Yeah.. nowhere. Dude puts up empty stats and we're suppose to believe he's this star player. Cavs looked better last year when Love and Kyrie were on the sidelines watching the game.
How far did Lebron carry a team in the West? lol...who was Love's second option? How about third? How old was he in his last season as a T-Wolves? Who was the veteran that is supposed to provide leadership? And last, how do you put up empty stats? Love did decently with what he had which is 0 all-star help and playing in the West.

So do you want Dragic and McRoberts for Kyrie and Love? How about Dragic and Deng? Don't tell me those two would make the Cavs 3-1 or 4-0 right now. Lebron is madly underachieving against a team he was expected to sweep. Sure blame it on the rest and when they win, reap in all the benefits that come with it.

[ImKobe]

Lol, this narrative about LeBron turning guys into spot up shooters is hilarious.

Answer me this... What happen to Love when he was in Minnesota? How far did he carry that team in the West? Yeah.. nowhere. Dude puts up empty stats and we're suppose to believe he's this star player. Cavs looked better last year when Love and Kyrie were on the sidelines watching the game.

No they didn't...they just faced a worse team in Atlanta in the ECF (a team without a legitimate closer), who they dominated this year as well.

Lebron relies too much on his inside game... when he doesn't have an open lane to the basket he doesn't even want to shoot to protect his efficiency, there's a reason why he only took 1 shot in the last 5 minutes and 0 in the last 3.

Irving had 26 points 6 assists on above 50% shooting, you think Wade would have produced better? Didn't y'all watch Game 7 where Wade was passive as hell and watched his team get blown out by the Raptors?

[Foster5k]

How far did Lebron carry a team in the West? lol...who was Love's second option? How about third? How old was he in his last season as a T-Wolves? Who was the veteran that is supposed to provide leadership? And last, how do you put up empty stats? Love did decently with what he had which is 0 all-star help and playing in the West.

So do you want Dragic and McRoberts for Kyrie and Love? How about Dragic and Deng? Don't tell me those two would make the Cavs 3-1 or 4-0 right now. Lebron is madly underachieving against a team he was expected to sweep. Sure blame it on the rest and when they win, reap in all the benefits that come with it.
You can try and spin it any way you want.

The truth is out there on the court that we all can see. Without LeBron James, the Cleveland Cavaliers wouldn't even have made the playoffs in the East. That's fact.

We can play this agenda game all day long and twist and spin it how we choose. Reality is, LeBron James is the only reason this team is relevant, and he is the only reason they have even a glimpse of success in the NBA.

Kyrie and Love are garbage and can't lead a team to anywhere besides the bottomless pit of NBA obscurity. That's the truth. Keep spinning it how you want.

[Dresta]

No they didn't...they just faced a worse team in Atlanta in the ECF (a team without a legitimate closer), who they dominated this year as well.

Lebron relies too much on his inside game... when he doesn't have an open lane to the basket he doesn't even want to shoot to protect his efficiency, there's a reason why he only took 1 shot in the last 5 minutes and 0 in the last 3.

Irving had 26 points 6 assists on above 50% shooting, you think Wade would have produced better? Didn't y'all watch Game 7 where Wade was passive as hell and watched his team get blown out by the Raptors?
Yes. If Irving had played as many games over as many days as Wade just did, he'd probably be out injured by now. He's been sitting on his arse resting and he still isn't close to Wade's production vs. Raptors. 38/8/4 on 67TS% game 3, 30/4/2/2 on "above 50% shooting" game 4, all while seeing the bulk of defensive attention from Toronto. If Wade had anyone else contributing they would've won both those games, and the series with it.

So no, Kyrie has not performed at that level against the Raptors; he's shown up in blowouts where the score wasn't close nearly the entire game, but when he's really been needed, he hasn't shown up, thus far.

[choppermagic]

Lol, this narrative about LeBron turning guys into spot up shooters is hilarious.

Answer me this... What happen to Love when he was in Minnesota? How far did he carry that team in the West? Yeah.. nowhere. Dude puts up empty stats and we're suppose to believe he's this star player. Cavs looked better last year when Love and Kyrie were on the sidelines watching the game.

He turns them into scrubs based on his style of play that maximizes his stats over everything else.

What happened to Love in Minny? Wasn't he considered a top 5 player in the NBA and MVP candidate? And putting Lebron on a crappy team in the West would result in the same- getting bounced in the playoffs each year.

Dont give me crap about lebron needing more help. Guy cherry picks his teammates and is the defacto GM of the Cavs playing in the weak East.

[GrapeApe]

No they didn't...they just faced a worse team in Atlanta in the ECF (a team without a legitimate closer), who they dominated this year as well.

Lebron relies too much on his inside game... when he doesn't have an open lane to the basket he doesn't even want to shoot to protect his efficiency, there's a reason why he only took 1 shot in the last 5 minutes and 0 in the last 3.

Irving had 26 points 6 assists on above 50% shooting, you think Wade would have produced better? Didn't y'all watch Game 7 where Wade was passive as hell and watched his team get blown out by the Raptors?

He was being hard-trapped, triple-teamed, and ball-denied 25 feet from the rim. It reminded me of 2009. The Raptors acknowledged that their strategy was to slow down Wade and make someone else beat them. That wouldn't happen playing with Lebron.

I think Wade's injuries in late 2013-2014 tend to make people forget how great they were as a tandem when Wade was healthy. They had brilliant chemistry on both ends and were arguably the most dynamic open court duo ever. Aside from their physical talent, both have elite basketball IQ's and a high understanding of the game. They were surgical. Lebron and the healthy Wade we saw in these playoffs would absolutely be a better tandem than Lebron and Irving.

[Klay 3D]

You can try and spin it any way you want.

The truth is out there on the court that we all can see. Without LeBron James, the Cleveland Cavaliers wouldn't even have made the playoffs in the East. That's fact.

We can play this agenda game all day long and twist and spin it how we choose. Reality is, LeBron James is the only reason this team is relevant, and he is the only reason they have even a glimpse of success in the NBA.

Kyrie and Love are garbage and can't lead a team to anywhere besides the bottomless pit of NBA obscurity. That's the truth. Keep spinning it how you want.
How is it a fact that they wouldn't make the playoffs without Lebron? All that $20+ million could be used elsewhere and the system would be different to benefit the personnel. Kyrie on the Spurs would've wrecked the league.

Reality is that Lebron teammates are always the ones to blame. Blame Wade, blame Bosh, blame Kyrie, blame Love, blame etc. Lebron never gets enough help. Face it. He was so scared of the Wade+Bosh tandem in their primes that he joined them and they still fell short in 2011 and yes that was Lebron's fault but his stans always find reason to discredit Wade's leadership or whatever. How about you create a roster that Lebron could win with. I'll warn you that we would have this conversation again.

[ImKobe]

He was being hard-trapped, triple-teamed, and ball-denied 25 feet from the rim. It reminded me of 2009. The Raptors acknowledged that their strategy was to slow down Wade and make someone else beat them. That wouldn't happen playing with Lebron.

I think Wade's injuries in late 2013-2014 tend to make people forget how great they were as a tandem when Wade was healthy. They had brilliant chemistry on both ends and were arguably the most dynamic open court duo ever. Aside from their physical talent, both have elite basketball IQ's and a high understanding of the game. They were surgical. Lebron and the healthy Wade we saw in these playoffs would absolutely be a better tandem than Lebron and Irving.

Bullshit :oldlol:

I saw Wade passing up open jump shots until his team was down 20 points, why wasn't he the one bringing the ball up and forcing the Raptors to "triple team" him at the top of the key so his teammates could shoot wide open jump shots all game, since he was the only player they were worried about?

Dragic was the reason the series even went 7 games in the first place, let's not forget that.

Wade was -19 in a 8 pt loss in Game 5 while Dragic was +2
Dragic had 30 on 57% shooting in Game 6 while Wade had 22 on 38%, Dragic was +25 while Wade was +5

Everyone expected Wade to take over Game 7 but instead he took 14 shots and could only play 34 minutes, dude was fatigued by the end of the series.

Same thing happened in 2014, he averaged 19 ppg in the regular season like this year but shot 9% better since he had prime Lebron on his side, played well up to the Finals and then got fatigued.

Irving is giving the same kind of production scoring-wise, is actually a better shooter so he also spaces the floor and is younger. He's averaging 24 ppg on 47% shooting with 45% from 3 for the Playoffs, that's better than anything Wade gave Lebron from 2012-14.

And it's consistent production, 20+ points in 10 out of 12 Playoff games and only one game below 40% shooting, but somehow he's worse than a Wade on one knee at age 34.



And OP has the audacity to say that Lebron + current Wade is better than ALL of the help he has in Cleveland? When do we stop blaming his teammates and start blaming him for disappearing in close games? His teammates got his team up 2 in the 4th and he takes 1 shot and scores 0 points? Ridiculous.

[GrapeApe]

Bullshit :oldlol:

I saw Wade passing up open jump shots until his team was down 20 points, why wasn't he the one bringing the ball up and forcing the Raptors to "triple team" him at the top of the key so his teammates could shoot wide open jump shots all game, since he was the only player they were worried about?

Dragic was the reason the series even went 7 games in the first place, let's not forget that.

Wade was -19 in a 8 pt loss in Game 5 while Dragic was +2
Dragic had 30 on 57% shooting in Game 6 while Wade had 22 on 38%, Dragic was +25 while Wade was +5

Everyone expected Wade to take over Game 7 but instead he took 14 shots and could only play 34 minutes, dude was fatigued by the end of the series.


At 34 years old Wade led the Heat in total points, assists, rebounds, blocks, 3pt%, and was 2nd in steals. He's the oldest player EVER to lead a team in points, assists, rebounds, and blocks in a playoffs series. Of course he was fatigued in game 7. Anyone who had to carry that kind of load would be, regardless of age. What Wade did in these playoffs was historic. He very nearly carried a team missing 2 max big men to the conference finals.

Point is, the Raptors sweep the Heat if not for Wade. Dragic was good in game 6, but it was Wade who had 8 points and key defensive plays in the 4th quarter to seal the win. In fact, Wade was the top clutch scorer in the playoffs through the first 2 rounds.

If you swapped Wade and Irving, the Cavs would be better (and the Heat would obviously be worse). Wade put up comparable numbers to Irving as the focal point of the opposition's defense. Also, Wade in the 2012 playoffs was better than Irving, especially when you factor in defense.

[guy]

Its such a weird coincidence that almost all of Lebron's star teammates look clearly worse playing with him then they did without him.

[ArbitraryWater]

He was being hard-trapped, triple-teamed, and ball-denied 25 feet from the rim. It reminded me of 2009.

Gimme a break with the game 7 excuses :oldlol:


Anyway, Love is ****ing trash.. dont ever call him a star.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its such a weird coincidence that almost all of Lebron's star teammates look clearly worse playing with him then they did without him.

Dafuq? He's played with 3 :lol

Wade was himself in 2011, Bosh was your typical 3rd option, and Irving got dramatically better.. lol

[guy]

Dafuq? He's played with 3 :lol

Wade was himself in 2011, Bosh was your typical 3rd option, and Irving got dramatically better.. lol

He's played with 4. Kevin Love is a star. Or at least he was until he went to a team who's best players can't utilize him as well to his strengths. Guys that average 26/13 on 40 win teams in the tougher conference aren't littered all over the league. I don't really see how you can say he's not a star but Bosh was based on their production. So he's played with 4.

Wade was himself in 2011, then all the Lebron fans started shitting all over him. Same thing with Bosh. Obviously the same thing with Love. And even the same thing with Kyrie to an extent despite the fact that he's better like you said (I did say "almost all".)

Why is this? Is it just a weird coincidence? There's never been 4 start teammates, which isn't a small number, to a great player who's gotten this much criticism, especially from that fanbase. The hype around the prospect of a great player (Lebron) playing with these star teammates (Wade/Bosh then Love/Kyrie) vs how the critics/fanbase felt when they actually started playing with each other has never been so wide. This never happened with Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, or even Kobe. Is it really just a weird coincidence? And Lebron just happened to be the one guy from that group of all-time great players who's star teammates for the most part played clearly worse with him vs without him?

[ArbitraryWater]

4 is a pretty small number...

Love is the only one who's inexplicably gotten worse. Its on open shots, too.. just look at last night's game.

[GrapeApe]

Gimme a break with the game 7 excuses :oldlol:


Anyway, Love is ****ing trash.. dont ever call him a star.

Name another 34 year old SG not named Jordan to get the kind of defensive attention Wade got in the Toronto series. Name another 34 year old player to lead his team in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, and 3pt% in a playoff series. You can't because both are exclusive to Wade.

Even though everything I said about how Toronto defended Wade in game 7 (and throughout the series) is true, yes he was subpar in game 7. He should have been more aggressive and assertive. Fatigued or not it was a disappointing ending to an otherwise great series. There. No excuses. Happy? However, if you pair a healthy Wade with Lebron, the Wade we saw for the majority of the playoffs, the Cavs are better than they currently are with Irving. No?

[Foster5k]

4 is a pretty small number...

Love is the only one who's inexplicably gotten worse. Its on open shots, too.. just look at last night's game.
Like I said, Love and Kyrie are trash. People can come up with all these stats and twist all these narratives to make LeBron take the fall.

The only stat that matters to me is how far did Kyrie get in Cleveland without LeBron? He got nowhere. The Cavs were irrelevant.

How far did Love get in Minnesota? No where... They were irrelevant.

LeBron James makes these fools relevant. He litterary carried these clowns to the playoffs and put them on his back through the playoffs.

I've seen nothing from these two scrubs that are suppose to be these star players. They are useless. Career losers. They always fail to show up in big games when it matters most. LeBron always has to take the lead and show these guys how to win even though they are allergic to it.

LeBron + Wade would have swept the Raptors.

[Optimus Prime]

He's played with 4. Kevin Love is a star. Or at least he was until he went to a team who's best players can't utilize him as well to his strengths. Guys that average 26/13 on 40 win teams in the tougher conference aren't littered all over the league. I don't really see how you can say he's not a star but Bosh was based on their production. So he's played with 4.

Wade was himself in 2011, then all the Lebron fans started shitting all over him. Same thing with Bosh. Obviously the same thing with Love. And even the same thing with Kyrie to an extent despite the fact that he's better like you said (I did say "almost all".)

Why is this? Is it just a weird coincidence? There's never been 4 start teammates, which isn't a small number, to a great player who's gotten this much criticism, especially from that fanbase. The hype around the prospect of a great player (Lebron) playing with these star teammates (Wade/Bosh then Love/Kyrie) vs how the critics/fanbase felt when they actually started playing with each other has never been so wide. This never happened with Bird, Magic, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, or even Kobe. Is it really just a weird coincidence? And Lebron just happened to be the one guy from that group of all-time great players who's star teammates for the most part played clearly worse with him vs without him?

Yikes. Dat truth. Bron stans won't touch these facts with a ten foot pole. :lol :oldlol: :roll:

[guy]

4 is a pretty small number...

Love is the only one who's inexplicably gotten worse. Its on open shots, too.. just look at last night's game.

No its not :oldlol: Wow the expectations for the talent he should've played with is ridiculous.

Jordan basically played with 1, arguably 2 in Pippen and Rodman. Magic played with Kareem, Worthy, and I guess you can include McAdoo and Wilkes. Bird played with Tiny, McHale, Parish, and DJ. That's 4 for Magic and Bird, who everyone says has had the most stacked teams ever. Duncan has played with Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Kawhi, and Aldridge. Kobe played with Shaq, Gasol, Malone, Payton, and Howard. That's 5 for Lebron's contemporaries that are basically done with their careers.

Love doesn't see anywhere near as much as touches in the post like he used to. This isn't me saying Love would be better off without Lebron. Of course not. Same goes for the other 3 star teammates.

But maybe Lebron just doesn't utilize his teammates as well as other great players and his style of play isn't conducive to playing with other star players? Even his GM said something along the lines of how much Lebron needs the ball in his hands and is better suited with just shooters around him.

Or maybe his fans overestimate just how much help everyone else has had in the past? Or maybe his fans just bitch and complain too much?

[Dresta]

Bullshit :oldlol:

I saw Wade passing up open jump shots until his team was down 20 points, why wasn't he the one bringing the ball up and forcing the Raptors to "triple team" him at the top of the key so his teammates could shoot wide open jump shots all game, since he was the only player they were worried about?

Dragic was the reason the series even went 7 games in the first place, let's not forget that.

Wade was -19 in a 8 pt loss in Game 5 while Dragic was +2
Dragic had 30 on 57% shooting in Game 6 while Wade had 22 on 38%, Dragic was +25 while Wade was +5

Everyone expected Wade to take over Game 7 but instead he took 14 shots and could only play 34 minutes, dude was fatigued by the end of the series.

Same thing happened in 2014, he averaged 19 ppg in the regular season like this year but shot 9% better since he had prime Lebron on his side, played well up to the Finals and then got fatigued.

Irving is giving the same kind of production scoring-wise, is actually a better shooter so he also spaces the floor and is younger. He's averaging 24 ppg on 47% shooting with 45% from 3 for the Playoffs, that's better than anything Wade gave Lebron from 2012-14.

And it's consistent production, 20+ points in 10 out of 12 Playoff games and only one game below 40% shooting, but somehow he's worse than a Wade on one knee at age 34.



And OP has the audacity to say that Lebron + current Wade is better than ALL of the help he has in Cleveland? When do we stop blaming his teammates and start blaming him for disappearing in close games? His teammates got his team up 2 in the 4th and he takes 1 shot and scores 0 points? Ridiculous.
Yes, you're right: he's the reason Miami didn't win in 6.

Game 3 (4 point loss). Dragic goes 5/14 for 12 points with 5 turnovers. Lost Miami home court despite Wade's 38 points, and with Whiteside going down--series completely switched by that god-awful performance.

edit: and errr... yeah, of course Wade was fatigued: he'd been carrying Miami all series, and the team had terrible scheduling, playing something like 12 straight games on alternate days. He was even Miami's best shotblocker with the team severely lacking size and getting bullied, and then beaten down in the last game.

Wade was playing without his two best teammates also: I wonder how Kyrie would've done in the playoffs without Love and Lebron?

[Legends66NBA7]

Wade... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Wade was looking like Jordan some nights vs Toronto. Better than anything I've seen from Kyrie and Love. Wade basically took Toronto to 7 games by himself.

He didn't. Dragic had big games in that series too including the big game 6 he had. Wade was better overall, though.

[Optimus Prime]

No its not :oldlol: Wow the expectations for the talent he should've played with is ridiculous.

Jordan basically played with 1, arguably 2 in Pippen and Rodman. Magic played with Kareem, Worthy, and I guess you can include McAdoo and Wilkes. Bird played with Tiny, McHale, Parish, and DJ. That's 4 for Magic and Bird, who everyone says has had the most stacked teams ever. Duncan has played with Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Kawhi, and Aldridge. Kobe played with Shaq, Gasol, Malone, Payton, and Howard. That's 5 for Lebron's contemporaries that are basically done with their careers.

Love doesn't see anywhere near as much as touches in the post like he used to. This isn't me saying Love would be better off without Lebron. Of course not. Same goes for the other 3 star teammates.

But maybe Lebron just doesn't utilize his teammates as well as other great players and his style of play isn't conducive to playing with other star players? Even his GM said something along the lines of how much Lebron needs the ball in his hands and is better suited with just shooters around him.

Or maybe his fans overestimate just how much help everyone else has had in the past? Or maybe his fans just bitch and complain too much?

This is getting brutal. Those poor LeBron stans need a safe space now. :applause: :lol

[LakersForlife]

Lue coaches them.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Anybody saying that Kyrie is trash because he couldn't make the playoffs at the age of 19 & 20 while missing games and fighting injuries while surrounded by trash should stop posting.

Lebron wasn't taking his team anywhere at 19 & 20 either. This is hilarious, Kyrie has had one bad game in the entire playoffs yet here we are, with the annual "Lebrons hand picked teammates are terrible" thread that we've seen every year for the past 6 playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kyrie is obviously not trash, but a top 15 player