NBA First team DEFENSE! Kawhi UNANIMOUS! NO LEBRON!

[imnew09]

1st Team

Kawhi
Draymond Green
DeAndre Jordan,
Avery Bradley
Chris Paul

2nd Team

Tony Allen,
Jimmy Butler,
Paul George,
Hassan Whiteside
Paul Millsap.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjUvxq4UYAA1Xf6.jpg


Source (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/5/25/11774064/first-team-all-defense-nba-kawhi-leonard-draymond-green-chris-paul)

BUT LEBROON CAN GUARD ALL 5!! LMFAO

[TheImmortal]

No LeBran.. Kobe fam stay winning :rockon: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: (although his defense has been noticeably shitty for several years now)

[scuzzy]

Dray n Klay Fam


Stay


Winning

:djparty:

[JohnnySic]

Bradley. :cheers:

[senelcoolidge]

Where's Curry he's the best player in the world right now?

[G0ATbe]

:applause: :applause: :applause: The dillusion of him being a great defender has faded to nothingness, finally . He's always been Harden level 99% of the time and every now and then he'll get a steal or chasedown goaltend.

[scuzzy]

Smh at deandre over whiteside

[imnew09]

Where's Curry he's the best player in the world right now?


First unanimous MVP in the history of NBA :bowdown: and that's not enough?

Okay...

[Optimus Prime]

LeBron James being an "elite" defender is one of the more ridiculous myths that has been repeated over and over again these past few years. He's not Curry-level bad on defense, but he's nothing special.

:kobe:

[imnew09]

Dray n Klay Fam


Stay


Winning

:djparty:


NO KD n Lebeta

HOLD THIS FKEN L:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron is over 30. Why would you expect him to be on a first or second defense team? It's a regular season hustle award..

He has 5 all-defense first teams

[Smoke117]

Lebron is over 30. Why would you expect him to be on a first or second defense team? It's a regular season hustle award..

He has 5 all-defense first teams

It's embarrassing how much this board downplays the defensive end of basketball...:facepalm

[Optimus Prime]

Lebron is over 30. Why would you expect him to be on a first or second defense team? It's a regular season hustle award..

He has 5 all-defense first teams

Kobe Bryant

9

[Dro]

Lebron is over 30. Why would you expect him to be on a first or second defense team? It's a regular season hustle award..

He has 5 all-defense first teams
*not sure if serious*

[ShawkFactory]

It's embarrassing how much this board downplays the defensive end of basketball...:facepalm
I'm saying that its ok that a 30 year old who's played an absurd amount of minutes in the last 12 years wasn't one of the 2 best defensive Sfs this past regular season. How is that downplaying defense?

[bigkingsfan]

Makes sense, the media hates Lebron.

[imnew09]

I'm saying that its ok that a 30 year old who's played an absurd amount of minutes in the last 12 years wasn't one of the 2 best defensive Sfs this past regular season. How is that downplaying defense?


Change your name to CawkFactory. Stop choking on that Lebeta C**k

[TheImmortal]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FocusedUnfitCoati-size_restricted.gif

[ShawkFactory]

Change your name to CawkFactory. Stop choking on that Lebeta C**k
Coming from a poster like you...this comment is truly funny

[NBAGOAT]

Lebron got enough votes to easily be considered a top 5 sf, he's still a net positive on that end easily. :applause: to Millsap he was awesome this year on defense.

[scuzzy]

Curry had 3 first team votes? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[bitedez]

But, but, but Curry is an elite defender :roll: :roll: :roll:

[HurricaneKid]

:applause: :applause: :applause: The dillusion of him being a great defender has faded to nothingness, finally . He's always been Harden level 99% of the time and every now and then he'll get a steal or chasedown goaltend.

OR... he was 5 points away from making second team All Def. One or the other.

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=Optimus Prime]Kobe Bryant

9

[HurricaneKid]

[QUOTE=Optimus Prime]Kobe Bryant

9

[SexSymbol]

Any of Bron's first team choices are a joke

[Kiddlovesnets]

I said it many times, Kawhi is a top 2 player in the league, hes better than Lebron right now. Current top 10 players in NBA:

1. Russell Westbrook
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Lebron James
4. Chris Paul
5. Kevin Durant
6. Stephen Curry
7. Anthony Davis
8. James Harden
9. Lamarcus Aldridge
10. Klay Thompson

[NBAGOAT]

Any of Bron's first team choices are a joke

simple question which guys should've gone over him?

[BigTicket]

[QUOTE=Optimus Prime]Kobe Bryant

9

[imnew09]

This is because there was hardly any competition during those years at SG.

Remember also the NBA just recently started their new format to where they don't elect a PG and SG....it's just guard and forward now.


Tmac, Vince, Ray Allen, Grant Hill, Bowen, Manu, Arenas, and more.

WHO THE FK WE HAVE NOW? Klay, Harden? LMFAO :facepalm :facepalm


That being said, it should favors Lebeta more. :facepalm

Here's the L, you can shove it up ur a$$

[Optimus Prime]

Kobe is by far the most overrated defender ever. Not because he couldn't play D when he wanted to, but because he usually didn't bother actually doing it.

He had a negative defensive +/- most of his career, and all the other advanced stats show the same thing. 99-00 was his best defensive year, all the others were mediocre at best.

Ah I see. So some stats and awards don't matter only when LeBron doesn't win them.

Got it.

9 > 5
5/7 > 2/6

Cherish this L.

:kobe:

[SexSymbol]

simple question which guys should've gone over him?
There are 10+ guys at every position that stars do not have the right to be over.
I think Kobe's 11 all-defensive teams is nonsense, he is GOAT-level defender when he lock in on that end, but that was obviously rare as it would take every ounce of energy off the offense.
Bran's all-defensive teams are even a bigger joke. Guy literally got a defensive team selection for guarding rose in a few 4th quarters.
I understand that guys with recognition have a better chance and basketball "experts" do not watch any of the lesser teams, deservedly so.
For example, someone like Mbah a Moute is a much better defender than 80 percent of all-defensive selections.

[Hey Yo]

Tmac, Vince, Ray Allen, Grant Hill, Bowen, Manu, Arenas, and more.

WHO THE FK WE HAVE NOW? Klay, Harden? LMFAO :facepalm :facepalm


That being said, it should favors Lebeta more. :facepalm

Here's the L, you can shove it up ur a$$
:oldlol:

Other than Bowen......none of the above are known for their defense.

keep melting down, Chico

[HurricaneKid]

Tmac, Vince, Ray Allen, Grant Hill, Bowen, Manu, Arenas, and more.

WHO THE FK WE HAVE NOW? Klay, Harden? LMFAO :facepalm :facepalm


That being said, it should favors Lebeta more. :facepalm

Here's the L, you can shove it up ur a$$

So he was competing for defensive accolades with Ray Allen and Gil Arenas... and you think that buttresses your point?

The fact that ANYONE EVER voted Kobe above Bowen shows just how absurd those awards were until the last several years.

Jeter's gold gloves and Kobe's All Def accolades are merely documentation of how little attention was paid to defense during that age.

[NBAGOAT]

There are 10+ guys at every position that stars do not have the right to be over.
I think Kobe's 11 all-defensive teams is nonsense, he is GOAT-level defender when he lock in on that end, but that was obviously rare as it would take every ounce of energy off the offense.
Bran's all-defensive teams are even a bigger joke. Guy literally got a defensive team selection for guarding rose in a few 4th quarters.
I understand that guys with recognition have a better chance and basketball "experts" do not watch any of the lesser teams, deservedly so.
For example, someone like Mbah a Moute is a much better defender than 80 percent of all-defensive selections.

Agreed on the most part then. Still there are years like 2013 where Bron was obviously locked in on defense and mostly deserving of his accolades.

[ShawkFactory]

So he was competing for defensive accolades with Ray Allen and Gil Arenas... and you think that buttresses your point?

The fact that ANYONE EVER voted Kobe above Bowen shows just how absurd those awards were until the last several years.

Jeter's gold gloves and Kobe's All Def accolades are merely documentation of how little attention was paid to defense during that age.
Far worse than Kobe's D selections.

[SexSymbol]

Agreed on the most part then. Still there are years like 2013 where Bron was obviously locked in on defense and mostly deserving of his accolades.
Sure he was pretty good in the playoffs, up until the finals where he was getting lit routinely, but I wouldn't give 2013 regular season defensive accolade to him.
I just don't think that Stars, with very few exceptions like Leonard and Duncan even deserve this, because most of the conserve the energy on defense to be better on offense as they should and I'm not faulting them for that, but it doesn't seem deserving to me when there's guys that literally only defend.

[Smoke117]

Kobe is by far the most overrated defender ever. Not because he couldn't play D when he wanted to, but because he usually didn't bother actually doing it.

He had a negative defensive +/- most of his career, and all the other advanced stats show the same thing. 99-00 was his best defensive year, all the others were mediocre at best.

Pretty much this. You have no business on the first or 2nd team when you are resting on defense half the time. You don't even need the advanced stats...you could clearly see the effort nor the impact was there unless you are a Kobe stan wearing rose colored glasses. Is there anyone here who can legitimately say Kobe was a 1st team all defensive team level defender in, say, 2006? No...he clearly was barely even trying on defense that season...yet he was on the 1st team of course :confusedshrug: This whole nonsense about needing the energy for offense is just that...nonsense. Wade expended just as much energy as Kobe did in 06 in 09 and was one of the 2 or 3 best defensive guards in the league...Jordan did it for years. Even Kobe's best defensive season in 00 isn't some all time great year at defense for a guard or anything either which makes it even more baffling that he is the player who leads the league in most all defensive nods. Kobe making the team so many times shows how little the coaches actually care about putting together a proper all defensive team.

[NBAGOAT]

Sure he was pretty good in the playoffs, up until the finals where he was getting lit routinely, but I wouldn't give 2013 regular season defensive accolade to him.
I just don't think that Stars, with very few exceptions like Leonard and Duncan even deserve this, because most of the conserve the energy on defense to be better on offense as they should and I'm not faulting them for that, but it doesn't seem deserving to me when there's guys that literally only defend.

mostly true but I thought along with a lot of other people think he gave a pretty great effort on that end. Miami was pretty good defensively because of their aggressive perimeter defense since they didn't have the normal rim protector and a lot of that was him.

[TheMarkMadsen]

This is because there was hardly any competition during those years at SG.

Remember also the NBA just recently started their new format to where they don't elect a PG and SG....it's just guard and forward now.


What a lame excuse

It wasn't just shooting guards he was battling. Literally the year before Kobe began making all nba first teams there was two point guards selected to the first team..

He was fighting both point guard and shooting guards AND small forwards.

In 2005 there was only one guard selected to the all nba first team, proving that he was fighting against three different positions.

Lebron hasn't made an all defensive first team since 2013, by the way.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe is by far the most overrated defender ever. Not because he couldn't play D when he wanted to, but because he usually didn't bother actually doing it.

He had a negative defensive +/- most of his career, and all the other advanced stats show the same thing. 99-00 was his best defensive year, all the others were mediocre at best.


+/-

The same stat that has 2001 playoff Shaq as a net negative and 2001 playoff Kobe with the GOAT playoff run

Yeah great stat there :facepalm :facepalm

[tpols]

Pretty much this. You have no business on the first or 2nd team when you are resting on defense half the time. You don't even need the advanced stats...you could clearly see the effort nor the impact was there unless you are a Kobe stan wearing rose colored glasses. Is there anyone here who can legitimately say Kobe was a 1st team all defensive team level defender in, say, 2006? No...he clearly was barely even trying on defense that season...yet he was on the 1st team of course :confusedshrug: This whole nonsense about needing the energy for offense is just that...nonsense. Wade expended just as much energy as Kobe did in 06 in 09 and was one of the 2 or 3 best defensive guards in the league...Jordan did it for years. Even Kobe's best defensive season in 00 isn't some all time great year at defense for a guard or anything either which makes it even more baffling that he is the player who leads the league in most all defensive nods. Kobe making the team so many times shows how little the coaches actually care about putting together a proper all defensive team.


Kobe's defense always shined brightest in the playoffs.

That's where he built the reputation that led to the regular season votes.

Wade was often too broke down by playoff time to do much on defense in later rounds unfortunately.

[Smoke117]

Kobe's defense always shined brightest in the playoffs.

That's where he built the reputation that led to the regular season votes.

Wade was often too broke down by playoff time to do much on defense in later rounds unfortunately.

Then you have nonsense like this...where Kobe apparently dials it in in the palyoffs and becomes 10 times the defender he was all season long...:facepalm If Kobe gets better it's slightly better because the impact is pretty much the same as the regular season. He's pretty much always been around the 3rd best defensive player on most of the teams he was on...rarely a defensive player that impacts the game in any significant way.

[imnew09]

These haters are in full denial. Smfh


When Lebrons guarding the opponent they usually get the FMVP

Enough said

[ArbitraryWater]

+/-

The same stat that has 2001 playoff Shaq as a net negative and 2001 playoff Kobe with the GOAT playoff run

Yeah great stat there :facepalm :facepalm

https://i.gyazo.com/a3ef114dbaaecbc49267ce96d2f5b557.png



:confusedshrug:

[NBAGOAT]

https://i.gyazo.com/a3ef114dbaaecbc49267ce96d2f5b557.png



:confusedshrug:

he means raw +/-

[Young X]

6th defensive first team selection for CP3. Frazier and Payton the only PG's with more. 4 All-NBA first team selections on top of that. Point god.

[TheMarkMadsen]

https://i.gyazo.com/a3ef114dbaaecbc49267ce96d2f5b557.png



:confusedshrug:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/on-off/2001/

[G-train]

Firstly, Deandre Jordan over Whiteside is an absolute disgrace. There is no argument for that, other than stupid voting.

Secondly, whoever voted Mike Scott should be stripped of voting rights.

Thirdly, Roberson received 1 vote and had a better defensive season than Tony Allen, who made the team.

[Wally450]

Bradley. :cheers:

:banana:

[GrapeApe]

Good to see Whiteside make it. :applause:

Early in the season he was a volume shot blocker but a below average defender. As the season progressed he became a solid overall defender to go along with his elite shot blocking. On a related note, Jawan Howard deserves A LOT of credit for Whiteside's development.

[stalkerforlife]

At least whoever voted for this told the truth.

Bran is a piss poor defender at this point and he's still in his prime.

Another HUGE negative mark on his career.

[bigt]

So glad to see Avery Bradley getting some league wide recognition :applause:

[imnew09]

At least whoever voted for this told the truth.

Bran is a piss poor defender at this point and he's still in his prime.

Another HUGE negative mark on his career.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: preach it

[Im Still Ballin]

Opponents' shooting percentages against Cavs players compared to what they shot in the regular season this year:

Shump: +8.6%; opponents are shooting 8.6% better against Shumomthan they did against all opponents in the regular season; (+3.4% from three)

JR: +7.1%, (-3% from three)

Delly: +6.5% (+6.2% from three)

Kyrie: +4.6% (+4.7% from three).

Love: +3.4% (+6.6% from three)

TT: +3% (-2.9% from three)

Jefferson: -1% (-9.1% from three)

Frye: -3.9% (+4.1% from three)

LEBRON: -12.4 (-9.7% from three, -24.8% from less than 6 feet)

Before tonight's game, the Cavs DRting with LeBron off court during the playoffs was 114.7 which would be equivalent to the worst defense ever.

During the regular season, with James on court, the Cavs' DRtg was equivalent to the 3rd best in the NBA and with him off court, the 15th best.


RIM PROTECTOR (#1)
Field Goals Defended at Rim %: (Opponent FG% when defended by said individual)

Tristan Thompson: 53.3% (6.0 contests a game)
Kevin Love: 68.9% (7.4 contests a game)
LeBron James: 45.2% (3.1 contests a game)
Channing Frye: 62.5% (2.7 contests a game)


PERIMETER DEFENDER (#1)

The usual field goal percent of the shooter that the player is defending
LeBron - 44.8%
Kawhi - 44.9%
Defense Dashboard
2pt FGs - Players shot 8.2% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
2pt FGs - Players shot 7.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
3pt FGs - Players shots 2.7% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
3pt FGs - Players shot 1.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
Overall - Players shot 7.4% worse than their average when defended by LeBron on 8.4 Defended FGs Per Game
Overall - Players shot 5.7% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi on 9.4 Defended FGs Per Game
Play type
When they were the closest isolation defender
LeBron - 69 possessions, .59 points per possession allowed, 28.8% eFG
Kawhi - 61 possessions, .69 points per possession allowed, 31% eFG
When they were the closest defender to the PnR ball handler
LeBron - 144 possessions, .66 ppp allowed, 37.1 eFG
Kawhi - 243 possessions, .65 ppp allowed, 35.8 eFG
When they were the roll man defender
LeBron - 10 possessions, .7 ppp, 38.9 eFG
Kawhi - 30 possessions, .5 ppp, 27.8 eFG
Post defense
LeBron - 43 possessions, .77 ppp, 40 eFG
Kawhi - 31 possessions, .77 ppp, 41.7 eFG
On spot up shooters
LeBron - 210 possessions, .8 ppp, 41.6 eFG
Kawhi - 200 possessions, .88 ppp, 43.6 eFG
Hand-offs
LeBron - 43 possessions, .49 ppp, 33.9 eFG
Leonard - 58 possessions, .72 ppp, 39.5 eFG
Off screens
LeBron - 78 possessions, .74 ppp, 40.8 eFG
Kawhi - 96 possessions, 1.05 ppp, 51.2 eFG


Averaging 2.4 steals a game in the playoffs

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe is unanimously the most overrated defender of all time

It's not even close

Simply just compare his 1st team selections to his DPOY voting results

He got by on reputation

DPOY voting results are way more accurate than 1st team selections

And then we can talk about defensive stats.. But you don't mention them with Kobe because he's terrible

In pretty much all of them

Simply put, he's a good man defender when motivated, but that's really all he was

Can't compare him to LeBron, who has played and defended all 5 positions

LeBron's help defense is on another world than Kobe's

The stats don't lie, and the footage don't lie

This misconception that LeBron isn't a good defender anymore is because of social media and some Jordan ******ger on youtube called Nobody Touches Jordan twists context to come to a false conclusion

In fact, LeBron is a top defender in the league. Look at the numbers I posted above. Check them yourself

[aj1987]

Kobe is unanimously the most overrated defender of all time
Agreed. I really can't believe that people think Kobe was one of the best defenders for 13 seasons of his 20 season career. Kobe, at best, should have had 4 1st team and 2-3 2nd team selections.

LeBron also should've made the 2nd team this season. He was actually really good on the defensive end.

[Klay 3D]

Hassan Whiteside? Serious? :facepalm

[Disaprine]

don't know about chris paul but :applause:

[Disaprine]

Makes sense, the media hates Lebron.
:roll:

[HurricaneKid]

Agreed. I really can't believe that people think Kobe was one of the best defenders for 13 seasons of his 20 season career. Kobe, at best, should have had 4 1st team and 2-3 2nd team selections.

LeBron also should've made the 2nd team this season. He was actually really good on the defensive end.

LeBron didn't make it because the F position was STACKED. Kawhi, Dray, and Millsap were incredible this season and were arguably the three best defenders in the league. That only left one spot and there was almost a 3 way tie between PG13, Crowder and LeBron. LeBron lost out largely because the team defense was <<<< than Indy.

[ekosky]

LOL!

What a meltdown.

Poor guy!

[choppermagic]

This proves how dominant and influential Kobe was over the NBA. Dude is retired and not on these lists and yet people can't stop taking about him.