Would Lebron be the greatest ever if he wins this year?

[Lebronxrings]

By winning he would beat: a 73 wins warrior team
67 win spurs
55 win thunder (more like a 65+ win)
56 win raptors

would he surpass Jordan? I never seen Jordan beat these teams.

[LAZERUSS]

By winning he would beat: a 73 wins warrior team
67 win spurs
55 win thunder (more like a 65+ win)
56 win raptors

would he surpass Jordan? I never seen Jordan beat these teams.

His team will not have beaten all three of those Western Conference teams. Nor would they if they were in the West.

[Lebronxrings]

His team will not have beaten all three of those Western Conference teams. Nor would they if they were in the West.
Im assuming he wins the championship in this case.

[L8krH8tr]

jordan will not be passed, try harder.

[LAZERUSS]

Im assuming he wins the championship in this case.

Still, I admit if they face, and beat the Warriors...yes, a huge addition to Lebron's resume.

Beating the Thunder...not as much.

But then again...three rings is an impressive team feat.

[NBAGOAT]

not even close. Not top 3 either but I could see top 5.

[ScalsFan21]

If the 73-win Warriors make the Finals and the Cavaliers beat them it will likely be the single most impressive feat in Finals history by LeBron right there. It would be something that no other ATG has done, given the gaps in supporting cast as well as the fact that Curry is coming off a one-of-a-kind UMVP. Just imagine the meltdowns.

It wouldn't hold a candle to how impressive it would be if this OKC can go through Spurs/Warriors/Cavs all in a row, but since they're about to get cut short in 7 by Golden State, anyone who wants to see an upset is going to have to settle for the Cavs winning in 6, closing the Dubs out at the Q. :bowdown:

[Lebronxrings]

Still, I admit if they face, and beat the Warriors...yes, a huge addition to Lebron's resume.

Beating the Thunder...not as much.

But then again...three rings is an impressive team feat.
beating the best in the west should count as beating all those teams. If the cavs beat the thunder it basically tells us they would beat the warriors and spurs.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, if the Thunder go on and beat the Warriors, then the Cavs in the Finals...that would arguably the GOAT run by a team in NBA post-season history.

Especially since the last three series would all have been without HCA.

[ScalsFan21]

BTW, if the Thunder go on and beat the Warriors, then the Cavs in the Finals...that would arguably the GOAT run by a team in NBA post-season history.

Especially since the last three series would all have been without HCA.

No doubt about it.

[KiiiiNG]

If the 73-win Warriors make the Finals and the Cavaliers beat them it will likely be the single most impressive feat in Finals history by LeBron right there. It would be something that no other ATG has done, given the gaps in supporting cast as well as the fact that Curry is coming off a one-of-a-kind UMVP. Just imagine the meltdowns.

It wouldn't hold a candle to how impressive it would be if this OKC can go through Spurs/Warriors/Cavs all in a row, but since they're about to get cut short in 7 by Golden State, anyone who wants to see an upset is going to have to settle for the Cavs winning in 6, closing the Dubs out at the Q. :bowdown:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ScalsFan21]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
We'll see tho. We'll see.

[CelticBaller]

No

[Leroy Jetson]

beating the best in the west should count as beating all those teams. If the cavs beat the thunder it basically tells us they would beat the warriors and spurs.
That's ridiculous, the Cavs only beat the sorry Eastern teams, it's not like the highlander where you collect all the power of the teams your opponent has already beaten.:facepalm

[imdaman99]

If the Cavs were in the West and had to be aligned to play the Spurs and than the Warriors, how many games would it take to beat them both?

I say they sweep the Spurs and than sweep the Warriors :bowdown:

/s bronstans

[Chokefree]

By winning he would beat: a 73 wins warrior team
67 win spurs
55 win thunder (more like a 65+ win)
56 win raptors

would he surpass Jordan? I never seen Jordan beat these teams.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You dumbass no wonder you clean my toilet :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[KiiiiNG]

We'll see tho. We'll see.
http://i63.tinypic.com/105b1gh.jpg
http://thesource.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0919927001426705549_filepicker.jpg






http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--PTdr_M7Z--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/199l6yqaygqnmjpg.jpg

[tmacattack33]

If Cleveland had won last year, with no Love and Irving, and with Lebron putting up 35/10/10, he would have had people talking about him being the GOAT.

This year, I don't know. It's not as crazy of a feat. It would help him be consensus top 5, but not GOAT.

[Leroy Jetson]

If the Cavs were in the West and had to be aligned to play the Spurs and than the Warriors, how many games would it take to beat them both?

I say they sweep the Spurs and than sweep the Warriors :bowdown:

/s bronstans
Might as well throw in the showtime Lakers, Jordan Bulls, the Dream team and Space Jam while you're fantasizing. Just because they once again beat the weak ass east there is no reason to believe they could beat much less sweep any of the top 3 in the west.

[Poetry]

would he surpass Jordan? I never seen Jordan beat these teams.

I've never seen Jordan beat Mikan either :hammerhead:

[pauk]

lol no, thats still 3 less alpha/finals mvp/championships & 1 less mvp compared to Jordan, however he would be legit inside top 3-5 tho (i have Kareem at #2)...

[tmacattack33]

lol no, thats still 3 less alpha/finals mvp/championships & 1 less mvp compared to Jordan, however he would be legit inside top 3-5 tho (i have Kareem at #2)...

Da fuq?

:biggums:

[gilalizard]

No. Never. LeFlop can never be considered GOAT. That ship has sailed. Hell, he's got a hard time cracking the top 10.

Too much collusion. Too much stacking. Way way too much flopping. No all time great has flopped remotely as much and blatantly as LeFlop.

And way way way too much ref help.

He's just had it far too easy.

Nope. Never GOAT.

[Asukal]

Greatest choker. 2/7 incoming. :rockon:

[pauk]

Da fuq?

:biggums:

Excuse me?

Ok ok he will be GOAT....

[Straight_Ballin]

No. Never. LeFlop can never be considered GOAT. That ship has sailed. Hell, he's got a hard time cracking the top 10.

Too much collusion. Too much stacking. Way way too much flopping. No all time great has flopped remotely as much and blatantly as LeFlop.

And way way way too much ref help.

He's just had it far too easy.

Nope. Never GOAT.

Solid summary.

It's a wrap boys!

http://www.omahasteaks.com/gifs/recipes/390x250/rc_ck008.jpg

[JebronLames]

I just moved him up to #2 after beating the raptors as massive underdogs. If he beats OKC, he may move up another spot

[BedroomBully]

Still, I admit if they face, and beat the Warriors...yes, a huge addition to Lebron's resume.

Beating the Thunder...not as much.

But then again...three rings is an impressive team feat.
Why not the Thunder? They are a more complete team from top to bottom. If they beat either team it will be s great accomplishment.

[tmacattack33]

Excuse me?

Ok ok he will be GOAT....


Now that's more like it :rockon:

[LilEddyCurry]

Won't surprise Jordan but he will be in the Magic, Wilt, Bird and Russell tier.

[LAZERUSS]

Why not the Thunder? They are a more complete team from top to bottom. If they beat either team it will be s great accomplishment.

Beating a 55-27 team with HCA just doesn't have the same impact as beating a 73-9 and without HCA.

[ILLsmak]

to me it's more about whether 73 win GSW will win the ring or not. haha. If they got 73 and don't,they are a laughingstock altho people can say injuries.

Like Steve Kerr said, everyone is injured.

-Smak

[Disaprine]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[greatest-ever]

I'm not sure that being GOAT is plausible for Lebron at this point. But if he wins the title this year, playing excellent i would put him top 3. I mean only a few select players would have a better resume than 4 mvps, 3 FMVPs, 3 titles, several 1st team selections, several defensive selections etc.

[tmacattack33]

No. Never. LeFlop can never be considered GOAT. That ship has sailed. Hell, he's got a hard time cracking the top 10.

Too much collusion. Too much stacking. Way way too much flopping. No all time great has flopped remotely as much and blatantly as LeFlop.

And way way way too much ref help.

He's just had it far too easy.

Nope. Never GOAT.

And MJ, a gambling degenerate and bonafide azzhole who makes people pay $10,000 to get a picture with him and devoted his Hall of Fame speech to making fun of people like his high school coach who didn't pick him to be on varsity, can't be GOAT either.

So, I guess we'll go with the guy who chose where he wanted to play when he was a FREE AGENT over that guy.

[kamil]

That's ridiculous, the Cavs only beat the sorry Eastern teams, it's not like the highlander where you collect all the power of the teams your opponent has already beaten.:facepalm

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[fragokota]

Hell,no. He needs 2 more rings & 2 FMVPs to enter my top 3 ( MJ, Kareem, Magic).

[Straight_Ballin]

If lebron wins this year, he is 3/7.

Just let that sink in.

That means he's still choked more times than he's won in the finals. :lol

So even in the best possible outcome after this year, when you look at the grand picture is still mediocre at best. 3/7 is not 5/7 and it sure as hell isn't anywhere close to 6/6.... but let's talk about playoff success so that lebaldstans can at least have SOMETHING to be happy about...

[moongaze]

Still, I admit if they face, and beat the Warriors...yes, a huge addition to Lebron's resume.

Beating the Thunder...not as much.

But then again...three rings is an impressive team feat.

How does this make sense? The thunder by beating golden state and San Antonio should be considered the better team than golden state.

[GrapeApe]

Another thing to consider is if the Cavs win the finals it will be because Irving and Love play to their all-star form. Lebron is not beating OKC or GS alone. To answer the question though, of course he wouldn't be GOAT. That's nonsense. It would however be an impressive resume booster and possibly put him in top 5 consideration. He'd be squarely in that second tier behind the "big 4".

[guy]

I feel like I've seen this thread at least 6x before. :rolleyes:

[knicksman]

And MJ, a gambling degenerate and bonafide azzhole who makes people pay $10,000 to get a picture with him and devoted his Hall of Fame speech to making fun of people like his high school coach who didn't pick him to be on varsity, can't be GOAT either.

So, I guess we'll go with the guy who chose where he wanted to play when he was a FREE AGENT over that guy.

Lol fakkit alert

[3ball]

:oldlol:

[3ball]

to me it's more about whether 73 win GSW will win the ring or not. haha. If they got 73 and don't,they are a laughingstock altho people can say injuries.

Like Steve Kerr said, everyone is injured.

-Smak
excuses

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

.
Jordan's areas of statistical advantage are more valuable and control the game better


Jordan's scored 5.5 more in the playoffs with better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) and clutch - these things control the game better than Lebron's 2.5 def rebound edge (with less offensive rebound) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 5.5 more points on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.. Can you imagine if Lebron averaged 5.5 more ppg with better efficiency?.. He'd be on a completely different level.



The scoring gap is more significant than people realize


Lebron has many playoff series and even entire postseason runs where he wasn't the team's scoring leader, whereas the Bulls needed Jordan to be scoring leader for every playoff series of his career by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).

No other all-time great led his team in scoring for every series of their career, led alone by 15 ppg like Jordan.



Lebron can't shoot, and many of today's top wings can't either


This season, Lebron shot 31% on 3-pointers and 37% from midrange, and he's been a sub-par shooter for most of his career - this includes missing over 80% of his jumpshots in 2 different Finals, which is probably a record.. Overall, his midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of 13 seasons (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17), while his career 3-point percentage is 31% in the playoffs.

The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) have sub-par 3-point and midrange efficiency, but they're still top scorers because today's spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he was a goat midrange shooter (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12373019&postcount=26), which gives him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.



Jordan's stats occurred in the UNSPACED phase of the modern era:


That's a tougher time period than today's SPACED phase of the modern era.. Specifically, Lebron and Curry's teams take 30 three-pointers per game, compared to 5 per game for the 1991 Bulls.. So it's statistical fact that Lebron and Curry achieve their stats WITH teammates spacing the floor, while Jordan achieved his stats WITHOUT teammates spacing the floor.

Obviously, Jordan's stats would explode in today's spacing.. Just look at Lebron and Westbrook - Jordan has same or better athleticism, but they can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41), while he had goat midrange efficiency, much better than Curry's (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12373019&postcount=26).

Essentially, MJ had Lebron/Westbrook's athleticism and better midrange shooting than Steph Curry.



Lebron employs a suboptimal style that makes a ring highly unlikely (requiring collusion)


Specifically, he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking), and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing).. Here's the APG and assisted rate of every key teammate:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709473&postcount=1


Lebron's ball monopolization results in a sophomoric brand of basketball and predictable, play-finishing teammates that can't succeed against the best playoff teams.. A weak brand of basketball and underperforming teammates results in the TEAM underperforming and losing as the favorite (2009 ECF, 2010 ECF, 2011 Finals) and when it's 50/50 (2014).
.

[3ball]

.
Jordan was a better defender


Just look at the 2015 Finals - even WITH Lebron shooting 39% and allowing Iggy an extra 10 ppg, the Cavs were still competitive and won 2 games - clearly, if he shoots 50% and holds Iggy to his normal 7 ppg, the Cavs win easily.

Jordan never let a role player get 10 ppg above his average, and he never shot 39% against single-coverage, which is why he never lost in the Finals like Lebron did.

The 2015 Finals was no fluke - Lebron let Kawhi score 10 ppg above his average and get FMVP of 2014 Finals.. Overall, Lebron has 4 all-defensive selections, compared to Jordan's 9, plus a DPOY award in the golden age for big men and towering shot-blockers.



Jordan was a better all-round player


Even though Jordan's scoring load was FAR greater than Lebron's, Jordan led his team in passing just like Lebron did - specifically, he led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of teammate field goals.

Jordan's goat scoring, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the goat performance and the biggest load ever carried.

[Gileraracer]

He's a bitch hiding in the west. so no. he will forever be a beta bitch