LeBron passes MJ to take sole #1 position in playoff win shares

[Im Still Ballin]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

1. LeBron James 40.07
2. Michael Jordan* 39.76

Epic.

[ArbitraryWater]

and he's only played like 10 more playoff games :bowdown:

alot of greatness racked up in those win shares

[Mr Feeny]

He is also 4th all time in points and 3rd all time in assists and climbing:applause:

[Im Still Ballin]

Also has the highest RPM (Modified version of RAPM) in playoff history
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/bpm_career_p.html

AND the highest VORP (Value over replacement player)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career_p.html

[Lebron23]

3rd greatest player of all time.

[PickernRoller]

He's soon to be the worst Finals performer of any superstar in history when adjusted for era and conference weakness. It's called the CHOKPER, choke-adjusted per.

[sd3035]

also #1 in Finals Loss Shares

[Lebron23]

He's soon to be the worst Finals performer of any superstar in history when adjusted for era and conference weakness. It's called the CHOKPER, choke-adjusted per.


It's Kobe Bryant. 25 ppg on 41 FG%.

[NumberSix]

Meh. He woulda been the GOAT if he stayed in Miami.

[Mr Feeny]

Also has the highest RPM (Modified version of RAPM) in playoff history
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/bpm_career_p.html

AND the highest VORP (Value over replacement player)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career_p.html

That's incredible.

So highest win shares in playoffs history
Highest vorp in playoffs history
Highest rpm in playoffs history
4th all time in points
3rd all time in assists
2nd all time in PER?

All by the age of 31:bowdown:

[Im Still Ballin]

He's unreal.

[Mr Feeny]

He's unreal.

He is. I wonder where Ilt ranks in winshares :lol

LeTHICK dominating:bowdown:

[ballinhun8]

The era of advanced stats :rolleyes:



What. A. Time.

[scuzzy]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

1. LeBron James 40.07
2. Michael Jordan* 39.76

Epic.
:rockon: :rockon: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[hold this L]

That's incredible.

So highest win shares in playoffs history
Highest vorp in playoffs history
Highest rpm in playoffs history
4th all time in points
3rd all time in assists
2nd all time in PER?

All by the age of 31:bowdown:
For me those are the most impressive ones. He's also played in one of the weakest conferences of all time (East) during most of its stretch which helps stat pad a lot of his accomplishment. He's still an incredible player though, definitely the most consistently great player since Jordan. I still don't think he has that killer mentality that Jordan, Kobe or Curry have, but he's still one of the best without it. Probably top 3 in terms of being a complete player as well IMO.

I don't like him, but I can respekk his accomplishments. :applause:

[SummrtimeEmbiid]

Jordan: 24-11 (69%) in Finals play
LeBron: 13-20 (39%) in Finals play

Count dem Win Shares

LEBRON DA GOAT :rockon: :rockon: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Straight_Ballin]

The era of advanced stats :rolleyes:



What. A. Time.

The era where kids think playoff success is the equivalent of wearing finals rings as the man. What a meltdown! Guy is going to go 2/7... but lets talk about the playoff wins instead which matter much less than rings since that's all we have. :lol

[tmacattack33]

He's been great.

Last year's run to the championship with Irving and Love injured on 30p/11.3r/8.5a was amazing, even if it wasn't the most efficient.

And now this year he's given up the overall numbers for efficiency and is back at .60 TS%...which would match MJ's best for a playoff run.

[Straight_Ballin]

He's been great.

Last year's run to the championship with Irving and Love injured on 30p/11.3r/8.5a was amazing, even if it wasn't the most efficient.

And now this year he's given up the overall numbers for efficiency and is back at .60 TS%...which would match MJ's best for a playoff run.

Irving was out the entire 2015 playoffs? Nope. Let's not down play the help he had getting him to the finals in that weak ass conference last year.....

[Hey Yo]

The era where kids think playoff success is the equivalent of wearing finals rings as the man. What a meltdown! Guy is going to go 2/7... but lets talk about the playoff wins instead which matter much less than rings since that's all we have. :lol
If that's your criteria, then you boy Kobe is 2 for 3 in the Finals as the man and LeBron is 2 for 5...as the man. (it was still Wade's team in 2011)

you keep taking L's left and right.

[Straight_Ballin]

If that's your criteria, then you boy Kobe is 2 for 3 in the Finals as the man and LeBron is 2 for 5...as the man. (it was still Wade's team in 2011)

you keep taking L's left and right.

Lebron is about to be 2/7. He was a better player than Wade in any year that he's played with Wade. You been holding the L this entire time.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron is about to be 2/7. He was a better player than Wade in any year that he's played with Wade. You been holding the L this entire time.
It was still Wade's team at that time, Straight BaLLin'


double L's for the multiple loser.....ruined time and time again.

[Straight_Ballin]

It was still Wade's team at that time, Straight BaLLin'


double L's for the multiple loser.....ruined time and time again.

"Wade's team" yet if the Heat win in 2011 it would suddenly be "Bron's team"

Lebrontard logic. To easy to dish out L's to them these days....

[3ball]

TOTAL WIN SHARES:

1. LeBron James 40.07
2. Michael Jordan* 39.76




Total win shares means nothing, similar to how total points means nothing compared to PPG - WS/48 is what matters:




JORDAN REG SEASON WS/48:. #1 all-time.. 0.250
LEBRON REG SEASON WS/48:. #6 all-time.. 0.240


JORDAN PLAYOFFS WS/48:. #1 all-time.. 0.255
LEBRON PLAYOFFS WS/48:. #3 all-time.. 0.238

[AirBonner]

Jordan stans are melting down. Facts are facts. :rockon:

[Keno]

passing jordan in all time rankings after this season too. GOAT. :rockon:

[3ball]

passing jordan in all time rankings after this season too. GOAT. :rockon:
The all-time rankings of points, assists, win shares, etc, mean less than the all-time rankings of PPG, APG, WS/48, etc.

Furthermore, Jordan's areas of statistical advantage are more valuable and control the game better:


Jordan's scored 5.5 more ppg in playoffs with better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) and clutch - these things control the game better than Lebron's 2.5 def rebound edge (with less offensive rebound) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 5.5 more points on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.. Can you imagine if Lebron averaged 5.5 more ppg with better efficiency?.. He'd be on a completely different level.

[Mr Feeny]

Total win shares means nothing, similar to how total points means nothing compared to PPG - WS/48 is what matters:




JORDAN REG SEASON WS/48:. #1 all-time.. 0.250
LEBRON REG SEASON WS/48:. #6 all-time.. 0.240


JORDAN PLAYOFFS WS/48:. #1 all-time.. 0.255
LEBRON PLAYOFFS WS/48:. #3 all-time.. 0.238

Being 3rd all time in playoffs win shares /48 is impressive though :applause:

[3ball]

Being 3rd all time in playoffs win shares /48 is impressive though :applause:


Let's see how Lebron's numbers look when he's 35 years old.. And his numbers aren't impressive next to Jordan, especially since Jordan's areas of statistical advantage were more valuable and controlled the game better.

Specifially, Jordan scored 5.5 more in the playoffs with better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) and clutch - these things control the game better than Lebron's 2.5 def rebound edge (with less offensive rebound) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 5.5 more points on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.. Can you imagine if Lebron averaged 5.5 more ppg with better efficiency?.. He'd be on a completely different level.

[AirBonner]

3ball is legit shook. Bron taking over :bowdown:

[kamil]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

1. LeBron James 40.07
2. Michael Jordan* 39.76

Epic.

That doesn't change being 2/6.

[3ball]

Total win shares means nothing, similar to how total points means nothing compared to PPG - WS/48 is what matters:




JORDAN REG SEASON WS/48:. #1 all-time.. 0.250
LEBRON REG SEASON WS/48:. #6 all-time.. 0.240


JORDAN PLAYOFFS WS/48:. #1 all-time.. 0.255
LEBRON PLAYOFFS WS/48:. #3 all-time.. 0.238




3ball is legit shook. Bron taking over :bowdown:


Not at all - the all-time rankings of points, assists, win shares, etc, mean less than the all-time rankings of PPG, APG, WS/48, etc.

Furthermore, Jordan's areas of statistical advantage are more valuable and control the game better:


Jordan scored 5.5 more in the playoffs with better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) and clutch - these things control the game better than Lebron's 2.5 def rebound edge (with less offensive rebound) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 5.5 more points on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.. Can you imagine if Lebron averaged 5.5 more ppg with better efficiency?.. He'd be on a completely different level.

[AirBonner]

That doesn't change being 2/6.
Still better than Ordan. Keep deflecting tho

[3ball]

Still better than Jordan. Keep deflecting tho



Jordan shot FAR better than Curry inside 20 feet, on 6 times the volume:




.....................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................Cur ry 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)............ Curry 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/) <--- link to nba.com data

5-9 ft.......... 49.2%, 126 fga........... 40.3%, 72 fga.......... 48.6%, 72 fga

10-14 ft....... 51.5%, 466 fga........... 52.9%, 85 fga.......... 50.9%, 57 fga

15-19 ft....... 49.5%, 594 fga........... 43.9%, 132 fga........ 37.3%, 102 fga



Overall midrange % (all shots inside the 3-point line but outside the paint)

JORDAN 1997:. 49.3%, 1202 fga
CURRY.. 2015:. 41.1%, 285 fga
CURRY.. 2016:. 42.5%, 200 fga



Jordan had Lebron/Westbrook's athleticism, with better midrange shooting than Steph Curry... :pimp:

Interestingly, good shooting isn't needed to be a top scorer in today's game - Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) have sub-par 3-point and midrange efficiency, but they're still top scorers because today's spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he was a goat midrange shooter, which gives him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.

[kamil]

Still better than Ordan. Keep deflecting tho

Why are you so insecure?

[sportjames23]

also #1 in Finals Loss Shares

DAMN

[sportjames23]

Still better than Ordan. Keep deflecting tho

Better at losing? Quite so.

Hold this Lebron

[Gileraracer]

He is also 2/6 while Jordan is 6/6

Beta bitch

[SpaceJam2]

Lebron is about to be 2/7. He was a better player than Wade in any year that he's played with Wade. You been holding the L this entire time.

Anyone?

[superduper]

Why are you so insecure?

Bran stans are honestly the most insecure fanbase I've seen.

Exhibit A- the bump above me

[3ball]

Lebron played longer, so his lesser production per game has added up to more for his career.

But everyone knows that MJ produced more per game, i.e. #1 in win share per 48 minutes, PER, PPG, and also OBPM*

no comparison

* OBPM includes MJ's Bulls career only, i.e. only the ages that Lebron has played, so not 40-year old Wizards MJ