Is Klay better than Peak Ray Allen and Reggie Miller?

[Ca$H]

Offensively all three players are comparable. I think Defensively Klay is far superior to Reggie and Ray. Klay's playoff stats: 26.5 PPG, 3.9 RPG, and 2.6 APG 46 FG% and 44 3P%.

[STATUTORY]

:roll: of course it aint even close

[Ca$H]

:roll: of course it aint even close

:biggums: Reggie and Ray both had excellent playoff performances too. It is very close offensively. Defensively it isn't close.

[CelticBaller]

:biggums: Reggie and Ray both had excellent playoff performances too. It is very close offensively. Defensively it isn't close.
You're right


Klay is better

[STATUTORY]

:biggums: Reggie and Ray both had excellent playoff performances too. It is very close offensively. Defensively it isn't close.
Reggie and Ray were both pure shooters but they could not shoot in volume the way Klay can.

Klay can maintain the the same accuracy while being much more prolific.

Neither Ray nor Reggie is ever getting 37 in a quarter, thats what Klay is capable of

[L.Kizzle]

A better shorter, sure. A better player ... not yet.

[ScalsFan21]

They're tough players to compare. Ray probably has the most statistical success at his best (though Klay's closing fast). Klay seems the most complete, but he also plays in an era and system that most optimally maximize the things he does well.

For as overrated as Reggie gets all-time, he did make some impressive playoff runs in the late 90s as the focal point of the offense, typically raising his play while only marginally sacrificing efficiency... He never had a Steph Curry who defenses needed to be genuinely concerned with as he crossed the half-court marker, nor the same caliber of depth in star support.

Klay is undoubtedly on the same tier as these guys and may go down as better, but I think he's the GSW player who MOST benefits from the system and supporting cast, even ahead of Iggy and Dray. These kind of guys are somewhat hard to compare but it's certainly not an insult to say Klay is as good or better than either or both.

[Ca$H]

You're right


Klay is better

Yes. Called it in 2013. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12411770#post12411770

[SexSymbol]

I think Allen developed into an excellent defender from around 06 to 10.
Miller wasn't a shit defender too.
I don't think that Klay is better than them, but he sometimes can be as good as anybody ever was. From time to time, Klay has above MJ peak's performances.

[Uncle Drew]

Ray Allen's peak often gets forgotten. The man would have led that Milwaukee team all the way to the finals if not for the NBA rigging the shit out of the series against the Sixers, because Iverson vs. Shaq = money.

[Rake2204]

They're tough players to compare. Ray probably has the most statistical success at his best (though Klay's closing fast). Klay seems the most complete, but he also plays in an era and system that most optimally maximize the things he does well.I think this point is what makes comparisons difficult.

I was thinking about this last night... I think prime Reggie Miller would have loved this era of NBA basketball. He was a deadly enough shooter to pretty much earn carte blanche when it came to shot selection yet even then, there were a lot of shots you just didn't take back then (as recently as 2013, even).

I recall Miller pulling from way down town during his Spike Lee game and that was considered, in my own head anyway, one of the gutsiest shots I've ever seen someone take; to be that far out and to just... pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDSF8otJH8Y#t=2m36s.

Yet, Thompson and Stephen Curry have turned those kind of shots into semi-standard occurrences. Last night alone, Thompson had three shots that I can't fathom most players in NBA history ever being allowed to pull without absorbing sharp criticism (the one from the left wing that Marv Albert dubbed as one of the best shots he's seen, the near-logo shot from the top, and the lead-stealing heave four seconds into the shot clock late in the fourth).

I think Miller and Allen could have done stuff like that, but they didn't... because the ceiling on shots like that hadn't been shattered yet. I guess that kind of speaks to the greatness of guys like Thompson and Curry though, in terms of them being the ones who have moved acceptable shot selection to the next level like that.

[greatest-ever]

I doubt this thread would exist if he didn't go off last night. I'd say he's a bit better than peak Reggie due to defense, but still worse than Ray.

[90sgoat]

Ray saved Lebron's career and Klay saved Curry's career so it's close.

[Smoke117]

They're tough players to compare. Ray probably has the most statistical success at his best (though Klay's closing fast). Klay seems the most complete, but he also plays in an era and system that most optimally maximize the things he does well.

For as overrated as Reggie gets all-time, he did make some impressive playoff runs in the late 90s as the focal point of the offense, typically raising his play while only marginally sacrificing efficiency... He never had a Steph Curry who defenses needed to be genuinely concerned with as he crossed the half-court marker, nor the same caliber of depth in star support.

Klay is undoubtedly on the same tier as these guys and may go down as better, but I think he's the GSW player who MOST benefits from the system and supporting cast, even ahead of Iggy and Dray. These kind of guys are somewhat hard to compare but it's certainly not an insult to say Klay is as good or better than either or both.

I dont see how Klay is more complete than Allen...it's like people forget that when Ray was traded to the Sonics he ran the point the rest of that season...Klay could NEVER do that. Ray never even got to enjoy the rule changes and in general soft perimeter defense we have till he was 30...that season he shot .412% on 8.3 3pt attempts. Ray was a far superior player off the dribble and able to create his own shot (or a shot for someone else) much better. Ray would be a top 10 player perennial player in the league the way it is now...it's built perfectly for his skillset. When you got these guys like Isaiah Thomas dropping 22ppg and Damian Lillard 25ppg in this league, I don't see how you can't see Ray dominating it. He'd be a 25+ppg player for a good 10 years if he came up when Klay did. In general, Ray was better than his numbers, especially on the Bucks. His problem there was that he wasn't selfish enough...but it's worth noting that during that tough defensive period in the early 2000s...Ray was by far the most efficient star SG in the league. When everyone is talking about the tmacs, the iversons, the Kobe's, they always forget that because Ray was too unselfish to demand 20 shots a night there.

Reggie on the other hand would love this era too...but he could say goodbye to all those free throws as he got most of them kicking his leg out...and that's now illegal to do. He and Klay offensively are similar, but of course he doesn't have the defense.

[Sarcastic]

Klay is about to take Kobe's spot as best Robin all time :bowdown:

[tpols]

A better shorter, sure. A better player ... not yet.


what did those two do of note outside of shooting .. ? lol. especially reggie.

[Straight_Ballin]

Klay is a better basketball player than Reggie or Ray Allen in any era. I would take Klay over them on my team and I've watch all players in their prime.

[Lebron23]

Yes

[sd3035]

Ray

Klay


Reggie

[ScalsFan21]

I dont see how Klay is more complete than Allen...it's like people forget that when Ray was traded to the Sonics he ran the point the rest of that season...Klay could NEVER do that. Ray never even got to enjoy the rule changes and in general soft perimeter defense we have till he was 30...that season he shot .412% on 8.3 3pt attempts. Ray was a far superior player off the dribble and able to create his own shot (or a shot for someone else) much better. Ray would be a top 10 player perennial player in the league the way it is now...it's built perfectly for his skillset. When you got these guys like Isaiah Thomas dropping 22ppg and Damian Lillard 25ppg in this league, I don't see how you can't see Ray dominating it. He'd be a 25+ppg player for a good 10 years if he came up when Klay did. In general, Ray was better than his numbers, especially on the Bucks. His problem there was that he wasn't selfish enough...but it's worth noting that during that tough defensive period in the early 2000s...Ray was by far the most efficient star SG in the league. When everyone is talking about the tmacs, the iversons, the Kobe's, they always forget that because Ray was too unselfish to demand 20 shots a night there.

Reggie on the other hand would love this era too...but he could say goodbye to all those free throws as he got most of them kicking his leg out...and that's now illegal to do. He and Klay offensively are similar, but of course he doesn't have the defense.

Oh no I agree with this completely, and this was my point for the most part. Peak Ray is VERY underrated, and that breed of player would THRIVE today. I think Klay may seem the most complete on both sides, but maybe that's in large part due to the spacing he enjoys on an all-time stacked team with a UMVP attracting insane amount of defensive attention on a nightly basis from 35 feet and within, and a crap ton of other capable scorers/creators. Not easy to say for sure. Like Rake said, I think this is a good 3-way comparison that is almost impossible to nail down definitively.

[riseagainst]

Ray saved Lebron's career and Klay saved Curry's career so it's close.


:biggums:

[Goofsta Knicca]

Ray still da man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YczlDGEULxA

Ray wuz 2 smooth.

Rondo --> Allen --> *splash*

[plowking]

He is better than Reggie but not Ray at his peak.