when did the media start shitting on hero ball publicly?

[STATUTORY]

I remember just a couple of years ago, the narrative was always in the 4th you want to put the ball in your superstar's hand. Now everyone shits on this "hero ball" mentality

[sd3035]

Once they realized Lebald couldn't shoot and hid in crunch time

[Showtime80']

The object of the game is to put the ball in the hands of your best player IN OPTIMAL POSITION to succeed!!!

The Warriors play as much "hero ball" as anybody else with the object of their offense is creating shots for Curry and Thompson. The difference is they hide it and at the same time maximize it with multiple cuts, screens and passes!!!

The one on one, take the air out of the ball for 10+ seconds only to shoot a fade away BRICK employed by Durant and Westbrook IS THE WRONG WAY to have your supposed "stars" create opportunities!

[Ben Simmons]

Hmmm...2014ish

[Smoke117]

The object of the game is to put the ball in the hands of your best player IN OPTIMAL POSITION to succeed!!!

The Warriors play as much "hero ball" as anybody else with the object of their offense is creating shots for Curry and Thompson. The difference is they hide it and at the same time maximize it with multiple cuts, screens and passes!!!

The one on one, take the air out of the ball for 10+ seconds only to shoot a fade away BRICK employed by Durant and Westbrook IS THE WRONG WAY to have your supposed "stars" create opportunities!

Those guys grew up watching Kobe so they learned that selfish basketball style.

[konex]

The object of the game is to put the ball in the hands of your best player IN OPTIMAL POSITION to succeed!!!

True



The Warriors play as much "hero ball" as anybody else with the object of their offense is creating shots for Curry and Thompson. The difference is they hide it and at the same time maximize it with multiple cuts, screens and passes!!!

Many of those 3s Klay and Steph were taking at the end were desperation 3s. They are bad shots for most players and they would have been slandered if they missed and lost



The one on one, take the air out of the ball for 10+ seconds only to shoot a fade away BRICK employed by Durant and Westbrook IS THE WRONG WAY to have your supposed "stars" create opportunities!

Bullshit. Jordan and Kobe won 11 chips playing that way. KD and Westbrook just don't have release shooters and aren't good enough isolation scorers to pull it off when the refs let the defense hack and grab them..

[MiseryCityTexas]

When Lebron point forward ball became popular. :facepalm

[MiseryCityTexas]

[QUOTE=Showtime80']The object of the game is to put the ball in the hands of your best player IN OPTIMAL POSITION to succeed!!!['/quote]

True



Many of those 3s Klay and Steph were taking at the end were mostly desperation 3s. They are bad shots for most players and no diferent from "hero" ball IMO.



Bullshit. Jordan and Kobe won 11 chips playing that way. KD and Westbrook just don't have release shooters and aren't good enough isolation scorers to pull it off when the refs let the defense hack and grab them..
Gary Payton was better than Russell Westbrook, and Steve Francis played in a much better era of basketball, so he's probably low key better than Russell Westbrook too.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Steve Francis was most definitely a much better one on one defender than Russell Westbrook currently is that's for sure, because Steve Francis would've did a much better job guarding Curry one on one than Westbrook ever could.:oldlol:

[Showtime80']

Konex, that's the way the Warriors play, they are going to live and die with those shots, that's their style and will remain consistent with it until Klay and Steph are no longer playing for them! No other team should imitate that style.

Michael Jordan was THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME and won in an era when you only needed 1 to 2 great players surrounded by role guys to win titles. Combine him with the best second fiddle of the decade in Scottie Pippen in his prime and one of the 3 best coaches of all time in Phil Jackson and there you have your 6 titles!

Kobe got 3 of his 5 titles playing basically one on one with Shaq attracting most of the attention!!! And a really bad post Jordan NBA by the way.

I'll give him his two titles in 09 and 10 but even then those were two down years for the Western COnference with their main competition, the Spurs, having down years and in a period of transition.

His Finals opponents in those years were the rapidly aging Celtics big three and DWIGHT FRIGGIN HOWARD'S MAGIC!!!

The 2000 Blazers, 2001 SPurs and 2002 Kings were better than teams than any Kobe beat in 09 and 10'

[Dray n Klay]

When Kobe tried hero ball and went 6-24

[lilteapot]

Nobody shits on the best player taking the best shot at the last game. Hero ball isn't talking about just that, it's talking about a "star" who doesnt trust his teammates in the clutch and will take bad shot after bad shot.

[PickernRoller]

Once they realized Lebald couldn't shoot and hid in crunch time

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Pippen's not even bettert han Grant Hill. Grant Hill used to kill pippen in the mid 90s. Frome 97 through the very early 2000s, Hill had Pippen's number.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Pippen was still a problem in 95 and 96 though. Pippen's even bailed Jordan out in games in them years.

[3ball]

Pippen's not even bettert han Grant Hill. Grant Hill used to kill pippen in the mid 90s. Frome 97 through the very early 2000s, Hill had Pippen's number.


Pippen averaged 17 ppg on 40% for the ENTIRE 1996-1998 playoffs and wasn't a top 10 player for 3 years of Jordan's 6-peat (1991, 1997, 1998)

There were many 2nd options better than Pippen, including Stockton (every year), Duncan or Robinson (1998), Penny (1995 and 1996), Drexler (1995), and many more.... even Shawn Kemp - he destroys Pippen in 1996 RS, PO and Finals - it's a joke:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12000670&postcount=12

[SamuraiSWISH]

Pippen's not even bettert han Grant Hill. Grant Hill used to kill pippen in the mid 90s. Frome 97 through the very early 2000s, Hill had Pippen's number.
Mike always had to guard him to lock him up. Hill, Penny, and Kobe all had length plus ball handling with a new era crossover move that always used to give Scottie fits.

[3ball]

Pippen was still a problem in 95 and 96 though. Pippen's even bailed Jordan out in games in them years.


No all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their career - but that's what the Bulls needed Jordan to do - and he did it by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).

The Bulls also needed Jordan to lead them in passing - Jordan led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of Bulls' field goals..

Ultimately, no one comes close to matching Jordan's combination of goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position.

[Blue&Orange]

I remember just a couple of years ago, the narrative was always in the 4th you want to put the ball in your superstar's hand. Now everyone shits on this "hero ball" mentality

Once they realized Lebald couldn't shoot and hid in crunch time

\end thread

[3ball]

in the 90's, you only needed 1 to 2 great players surrounded by role guys to win titles.


Not true - the Lakers won 5 titles in the 2000's with only 2 great players (shaq/kobe or kobe/pau), which nearly cancels out Jordan's 6 titles with only 2 great players in the 90's.

Also, the Spurs won in 1999 with a 3 all-stars (Duncan/Robinson/Elliott), which is no different than the Spurs winning with Duncan/Parker/Ginobili.

So you're basically making things up - the only super-teams in today's era were the ones that were artificially created: KG/Pierce/Allen and Lebron/Wade/Bosh, who both lost in the Finals.





in the 90's, you only needed 1 to 2 great players surrounded by role guys to win titles.


No all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their career, but that's what the Bulls needed Jordan to do, which he did by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) - let that sink in.

The Bulls also needed Jordan to lead them in passing - Jordan led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of Bulls' field goals..

Ultimately, no one comes close to matching Jordan's combination of goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position.





Combine him with the best second fiddle of the decade in Scottie Pippen



All these guys were better 2nd options than Pippen in the 90's:


Penny (1995 and 1996)
David Robinson or Duncan (1998)
Stockton (every year)
Shawn Kemp (1996 - compare the stats from 1996 - RS, PO and Finals (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12000670&postcount=12) - not close at all)

and probably Drexler in 1995, among others..

Pippen only averaged 17 ppg on 40% during the ENTIRE 1996-1998 playoffs - let that sink in - this includes 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals, and 15 ppg on 41% in 1998 Finals.

[DCL]

when you blow a 3-1 lead, just about *anything* you do would be picked apart