MJ was an off-ball player since North Carolina - he was NEVER ball-dominant

[3ball]

.
Ball-dominance is holding the ball for any extended period, which occurs most often when a player is pounding the rock on a continuous basis (live-dribble) - live-dribbling is the most-used driving method of point guards and also wings like Harden and Lebron:


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7qE3XMneI1TB4pcA/giphy.gif



Otoh, Jordan's most-used driving method was from the TRIPLE THREAT position (pre-dribble, stationary position), which is far less time-consuming than live dribbling (ball-dominance):


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6EhFtrc1pK6B71aU/giphy.gif



Jordan wasn't allowed to dominate the ball at North Carolina and so he never developed into that type of player.

Other than 1989 when he played some PG, watch ANY game of Jordan's (like his 63 point game against the Celtics, his 61 point game against the Atlanta Hawks, his 45 point game against the Spurs his rookie year), and you'll see that MOST of his points come off-ball and/or from the triple threat, without using live-dribbling (ball-domination).

[imnew09]

When MJ was ball dominant, he averaged triple double :bowdown: :bowdown:

GOAT

[FKAri]

Off guards didn't dominate the ball like they do today. There were no James Harden types (I'll bring the ball up AND score but I'll pass it to you if I need to be bailed out). Back then college beat this mentality out of AAU kids. The PG usually brought the ball up and your primary scorer got the ball in the block where he set up.

[ClipperRevival]

MJ's 3 years at NC really helped polish and refine his fundamental skills. That's why he was one of the most fundamentally sound players ever. That's something that isn't possible for high lottery picks in today's game. If you don't have that solid, fundamental base to work with, your game can suffer in the long run.

And MJ was so devastating from the triple threat position, he didn't need to do that extra work. But let's not pretend the guy didn't regularly dominate the ball. Of course he did. You can't be the all-time leader in ppg without doing so. He just didn't need to do it as much given how devastating he was from the triple threat.

[MP.Trey]

Just like Curry, the heir apparent. :applause:

[dankok8]

Except Jordan is the all time leader in career USG% at 33.26%. Lebron is fifth after Wade, Kobe, and Iverson at 31.64%. Jordan also has two single seasons in the top 10 with 38.29% and 35.99% while somewhat surprisingly Lebron doesn't have a single season in the top 30.

That's a on a per possession basis.

In terms of time spent with the ball, Lebron probably does spend more because of his playmaking duties and playing less off ball but that's largely because of his role on the team. When Kyrie and Wade bring the ball up and make plays Lebron does pretty well. In fact he had monster game in Miami where Wade set him up. Pick and rolls when Lebron goes to the rim are lethal, Lebron shot well over 40% on corner threes in Miami, and shot way way above average from midrange as well. The idea that Lebron is not a triple threat is bogus especially given his superior playmaking compared to Jordan. OP is reaching...

[90sgoat]

Except Jordan is the all time leader in career USG% at 33.26%. Lebron is fifth after Wade, Kobe, and Iverson at 31.64%. Jordan also has two single seasons in the top 10 with 38.29% and 35.99% while somewhat surprisingly Lebron doesn't have a single season in the top 30.

That's a on a per possession basis.

In terms of time spent with the ball, Lebron probably does spend more because of his playmaking duties and playing less off ball but that's largely because of his role on the team. When Kyrie and Wade bring the ball up and make plays Lebron does pretty well. In fact he had monster game in Miami where Wade set him up. Pick and rolls when Lebron goes to the rim are lethal, Lebron shot well over 40% on corner threes in Miami, and shot way way above average from midrange as well. The idea that Lebron is not a triple threat is bogus especially given his superior playmaking compared to Jordan. OP is reaching...

Usage has nothing to do with ball dominane. A player like Reggie Miller who rarely touched the ball would also have high usage.

[ClipperRevival]

Except Jordan is the all time leader in career USG% at 33.26%. Lebron is fifth after Wade, Kobe, and Iverson at 31.64%. Jordan also has two single seasons in the top 10 with 38.29% and 35.99% while somewhat surprisingly Lebron doesn't have a single season in the top 30.

That's a on a per possession basis.

In terms of time spent with the ball, Lebron probably does spend more because of his playmaking duties and playing less off ball but that's largely because of his role on the team. When Kyrie and Wade bring the ball up and make plays Lebron does pretty well. In fact he had monster game in Miami where Wade set him up. Pick and rolls when Lebron goes to the rim are lethal, Lebron shot well over 40% on corner threes in Miami, and shot way way above average from midrange as well. The idea that Lebron is not a triple threat is bogus especially given his superior playmaking compared to Jordan. OP is reaching...

Guys who are dangerous off the TT usually have a great first step (MJ, Worthy, Melo, KJ, Iverson, etc) and quick feet. LeBron doesn't have either. He's never been a great offensive player against a set defender with a set D. He's much more dangerous in transition, when the D isn't set, with a p&r, or when he can get a head of steam, etc. Anything where the D isn't set and he doesn't have to beat a set defender because he's never had elite quickness given his 260lb frame. So he wasn't that dangerous from the TT position.

[3ball]

But let's not pretend the guy didn't regularly dominate the ball. Of course he did. You can't be the all-time leader in ppg without doing so. He just didn't need to do it as much given how devastating he was from the triple threat.


It goes without saying that some of his points came off-the-dribble - but it was a small proportion compared to his off-ball, triple-threat, and post points.

Seriously, re-watch the highlights of a Jordan game and you'll be reminded (or surprised) that MOST of his points came via off-ball, triple-threat, or post.

And btw, even during his rookie year, more than half of his FG's were jumpshots - this is a FACT - look at pretty much ANY game.. He's always been a goat midrange shooter.. Maybe THE goat midrange shooter given his volume - he really RELIED on his midrange jumper for his points and to score when the defense was tightest.

[3ball]

Usage has nothing to do with ball dominane. A player like Reggie Miller who rarely touched the ball would also have high usage.
True.

And btw, the term "ball-dominant" means the player uses "ball-dominance" as a primary method of attack - it implies they score most of their points off-the-dribble, PG-style.

Since Jordan used other attacks more often and scored a minority proportion of his points via ball-dominance, it doesn't make sense to use the term "ball-dominant" to describe Jordan at all

[90sgoat]

True.

And btw, the term "ball-dominant" means the player uses "ball-dominance" as a primary method of attack - it implies they score most of their points off-the-dribble, PG-style.

Since Jordan used other attacks more often and scored a minority proportion of his points via ball-dominance, it doesn't make sense to use the term "ball-dominant" to describe Jordan at all

No, the correct term would be 'usage dominant' or more normal speech detractors would say 'selfish'.

[3ball]

No, the correct term would be 'usage dominant' or more normal speech detractors would say 'selfish'.


That's fine, but the word "selfish" is a mischaracterization of a player that uses many possessions, when that player produces MORE on each possession (ortg), as Jordan did.

Jordan gave his team MORE (possessions) of a good thing (efficiency per possession)

[ClipperRevival]

Like I said above, MJ just didn't need to do all that live dribble stuff for 10-15 seconds to create a shot because he didn't have too. He got the separation from the TT. His moves were always super quick and decisive, not a lot of the hesitation, change of pace (although I'm sure there are tons of those out there from MJ). But MJ just devastated people with his quickness. His quickness for a 6'6" guy was off the charts. When he gave you that jab step, you were already toast. The most fluid, coordinated and reflexive athlete I have ever seen on a bball court.

[Kblaze8855]

True.

And btw, the term "ball-dominant" means the player uses "ball-dominance" as a primary method of attack - it implies they score most of their points off-the-dribble, PG-style.

Since Jordan used other attacks more often and scored a minority proportion of his points via ball-dominance, it doesn't make sense to use the term "ball-dominant" to describe Jordan at all

No, the correct term would be 'usage dominant' or more normal speech detractors would say 'selfish'.


Yea. Jordan was often considered selfish...and a ballhog too. It was just relative to the times. If he played his early career style in the late 90s to early 2000s it would have been about normal. It would be normal now....but then? Guys like MJ and Nique? The guys who would attack, attack, attack? They were usually called selfish because teams were built for guys like that to do most of their wild attacking in the open court. MJ and Nique would take one or two guys to the basket in the halfcourt and not necessarily pass it when a teammate is open. And by the standards of the stars of the time it made them look less interested in moving the ball. Which is why articles like this from 1991 were written:

[Kblaze8855]

Motored to the Stadium the other night to watch the Bulls, as a spectator, not as a member of the so-called working press, and encountered several fans who expressed disappointment I had forsaken my annual Michael Jordan column.

It wasn`t that they necessarily agreed with my appraisals, but, I assume, because they welcomed a minority report. So this being a slow day in baseball, I will offer an update on how I view Michael the Great.



I gave him a pass the last two seasons, but in each of the previous three seasons I put the knock on him: a very good player, obviously an outstanding talent, the best penetrator I have seen, but nonetheless a ball hog.

It is an opinion that has offended Jordan`s legions, most of whom obviously believe the best player is the player who scores the most points. This is a false assumption. I have seen many games when the best player, or more accurately, the most valuable player to his team, scored only 12 or 14 points.

I continue to contend the Bulls will be a better team when Jordan averages 24-25 points, not 30 or 34. Several years ago, when the All-Star Game was held here, I mentioned this to Pat Riley, then the coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Riley agreed, but reluctantly. He didn`t want his remarks interpreted as a knock against Jordan.

Another veteran basketball man, the highly respected John Wooden, for many years the coach at UCLA, was considerably more blunt. Wooden, in ranking players, said Larry Bird was No. 1 and Magic Johnson was a distant second. Wooden dismissed Jordan completely because of Jordan`s failure to bring his teammates into the game.

Reading between the lines, it has been obvious Phil Jackson, the Bulls`

coach, also agrees, not necessarily with Wooden but certainly with Riley. Why else would Jackson repeatedly emphasize he wants better ball distribution and more of his players involved in the game? The translation: Jordan should pass more and shoot less.

Hitting the open man is what basketball is about. One player can put on a ``show,`` which Jordan has done and continues to do, possibly better than anyone in the history of professional basketball. Even Wilt Chamberlain, who in 1961-62 averaged 50 points, never came close to matching Jordan as a gate attraction.

Whatever, this time I have come to praise Jordan. This is because he is passing more than ever. He has discovered he has four teammates on the floor with him at all times.

Many fans will insist he is moving the ball around because the Bulls have better personnel, that it is no longer necessary for him to be a one-man team. I disagree. Jordan has changed his style. But for other reasons.

Unlike his early seasons when he was surrounded essentially by younger players (who because of their inexperience remained silent), the Bulls now have somewhat of a veteran team. Not that they`re up in years and aging, but there is this difference: Veteran players are not as likely to hold Jordan in awe.

There were two or three games, last season and again early this season, when it was apparent Jordan was being ignored purposely; he didn`t get the ball. This usually occurred in the first quarter, but sometimes in the second. The veterans were delivering a message to Michael: If you want the ball, you`re going to have to give it back, especially when you`re being double- and triple-teamed.

.....

[Kblaze8855]

....


Another reason for the change is Jordan is aware he can`t continue driving the lanes without increasing the likelihood of injury. Often, the defensive play is ferocious. The player with the ball is kneed, elbowed, generally hacked.

This is even true when the player penetrates only one or two steps and then pulls up for a routine jump shot. There are only two ways to defend against the jumper, either the defender times his jump perfectly and blocks the shot, which rarely happens, or he fouls. That Jordan is driving less is reflected in the fact he isn`t drawing nearly as many fouls as in the past. I don`t have the precise numbers, but I would guess his free throws have diminished by as much as one-third.

I do have the exact numbers on more important stats. So far this season, Jordan has taken 24 percent of the Bulls` shots. This is still a high percentage, considering Jackson has been using his bench. But Jordan`s percentage is dropping.

In the four previous seasons, Jordan averaged 28 percent of the team`s shots. One season, `86-87, it was 32 percent. How much is 32 percent? In 1961-62, when Chamberlain averaged 50 points and 48.5 minutes, 10 minutes more than Jordan, his shot-ratio was 35 percent.

Bird`s career stats also could be used for purposes of comparison. Going into this season, Bird, a remarkable shooter, averaged 21 percent of his team`s shots. Bird`s one-season high, reached twice when he was in his prime, was 24 percent.

So hat`s off to Michael Jordan for looking for the open man and moving the ball. It is significant the team with the league`s leading scorer never has won an NBA title. This isn`t to suggest the Bulls are about to win the championship with a lower-scoring Jordan.

I doubt they`ll come close. But it`s nice to know Jordan has discovered five men are better than one, even when the other four are lesser players.

[Kblaze8855]

Had to break that article up with the shorter character limits we have now. Didnt want anything out of context...

A lot of the old fundamentals first guys thought Jordan was a ballhog too into his own scoring back in the day. Now...a lot of it changed deeper into his career. I'll go to John Wooden again here:

*asked about the current teams he liked*


Well, let me put it this way, I watch John Stockton. Of the Utah Jazz. He’s just my favorite player to watch in the pros. I think the way he and (Karl) Malone work that screen-and-roll, I’ve never seen at any time players work it quite as well as they do. And that’s because of the abilities of each one.

At the same time, I’ll say I think easily, and I’m not prone to do this, to say anyone is the best. But I now say Michael Jordan’s the best that’s ever played the game. I believe that, and I’ll say that without hesitating. I didn’t say that before he dropped out a year and came back. I wasn’t sure.

But since he’s come back. I remember one time him saying, ‘Me and my supporting cast.’ And I don’t like that. I tried to teach my players, ‘In a play you have to have a lead, but that lead’s no good unless you have a supporting cast. You need a director, too, so you need me a little bit. Just a little bit.'

But to me he’s absolutely the greatest that’s ever played. Offense, defense everything.

Q: It seems his will to win has separated him.

A: Oh, my. And I think maybe the death of his father, maybe being away from (the game). Maybe subconsciously, and I don’t know this, but maybe subconsciously he felt, ‘I can just go into baseball and do this.’ And then he found out he couldn’t. That can make you realize, ‘No, I can’t do everything.’


As with most things....it all depends on how you look at it.

[oarabbus]

Very impressive stuff. Jordan almost as good as Curry.

[3ball]

Jordan shot a lot


And most of those shots were not achieved via ball-domination (off-the-dribble), which is the point of this thread - they were achieved via off-ball, triple threat, or post.

Btw, Jordan has higher TS, FG, and ORtg than Lebron in the playoffs - that's all the efficiency categories.. Any fan of Lebron would want him to DO MORE, which is shooting more at higher efficiency - that's what Jordan did.. Jordan DID MORE because he was better - it's simple.

Jordan also has higher per possession efficiency (ortg) than Curry, which is more important than Curry's shooting efficiency - shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of per possession efficiency.
.

[FKAri]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]But since he

[GrapeApe]

I don't understand what he's trying to say here.

Clearly he just wanted to work in his Robert Deniro impression.

[Kblaze8855]

I cant find audio of that interview but ive heard him mention something like it before. He spoke on it several times. He didnt think Jordan was much of a teammate early. He liked that he came back and wasnt trying to do it all himself. I remember an old interview where he didnt even acknowledge Jordan as among the best all time. He had Kareem, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Russell, and Walton as his guys. And this was well into Jordans career. He wasnt feeling him at all when he felt he was too selfish. Late 90s....he had Woodens respect.

[tpols]

I cant find audio of that interview but ive heard him mention something like it before. He spoke on it several times. He didnt think Jordan was much of a teammate early. He liked that he came back and wasnt trying to do it all himself. I remember an old interview where he didnt even acknowledge Jordan as among the best all time. He had Kareem, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Russell, and Walton as his guys. And this was well into Jordans career. He wasnt feeling him at all when he felt he was too selfish. Late 90s....he had Woodens respect.


but there is a difference between ball dominant and shooting a lot.. hell Bron is/was ball dominant but likes to pass. The two things dont have much to do with each other.

[Uncle Drew]

OP once said MJ was a great off-ball passer.

[Hey Yo]

Speaking of N. Carolina, how come MJ couldn't get them to the Finals after Worthy did the year before? Couldn't even get them to the Final Four with Big Smooth and Brad Daugherty.

[Smoke117]

Jordan was just a scrub who Worthy carried on NC.

[Kblaze8855]

but there is a difference between ball dominant and shooting a lot.. hell Bron is/was ball dominant but likes to pass. The two things dont have much to do with each other.


I agree. I made a topic on it in like 02 when people kept calling Steve Francis a ballhog and chucker interchangeably. He played 41 minutes a game and took 15-16 shots. He was a ballhog...not a chucker. Maybe selfish with the ball....but not taking as many shots as people assumed. People had trouble with that idea somehow.

[Kblaze8855]

Btw, Jordan has higher TS, FG, and ORtg than Lebron in the playoffs - that's all the efficiency categories, which means he shoots better than Lebron AND produces more per possession.. Every fan wants their favorite player to shoot more at higher efficiency - that's the definition of being BETTER.

Eh. Better is better. The numbers can say a lot of things depending on who is being compared. There are more players than Jordan and Lebron.

Best shooter is hard to nail down to a number...or even a series of them.

[jlip]

I didn't read one word of this actual thread, but the the title itself is ban worthy.

[3ball]

There are more players than Jordan and Lebron.


Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, and Wade in the regular season and the playoffs.

So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.





Better is better


Jordan scored 6 more ppg than Lebron in the playoffs with better efficiency across the board - that's more important and controls the game better than Lebron's 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds) and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).

There's never been a #1 option that scored 6 more ppg with better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.





Better is better


Lebron has many series and even entire playoff runs where he isn't the team's leading scorer, whereas Jordan led his team in scoring for every series of his career by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) - no other all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their career, let alone by 15 ppg like Jordan did.

Jordan also led his team in passing - Jordan led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49), so he assisted on the highest proportion of Bulls' field goals..

Ultimately, Lebron is nowhere near Jordan's combination of goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position.

[tontoz]

Jordan was definitely ball dominant. That is why they paired him with spot up shooters like Kerr and Paxon. He didnt like playing with BJ because BJ tried to play more like a pg.

Granted he was very good with the ball, but his selfishness was well known and a constant aggravation for his coaches. Collins used to cry that Jordan was the one who sabotaged their fast breaks because he refused to let go of the ball.

[ImKobe]

He played off-ball more in the 2nd 3-peat but he was definitely ball dominant in his earlier years when he averaged 32+ points and 6+ assists.

[bdreason]

80's MJ had one of the highest usage rates in the history of the sport. :facepalm

[3ball]

80's MJ had one of the highest usage rates in the history of the sport.


It's amazing how dumb you guys all are about basketball.. Ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts you utterly dumb fu.cks

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball, and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

[ImKobe]

It's amazing how dumb you guys all are about basketball.. Ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts you utterly dumb fu.cks

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball, and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.


Usg%
Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

Why are Jordan fans so defensive?

[3ball]

Why are Jordan fans so defensive?
By posting the usage formula, you've done confirmed how dumb you are - the formula shows that usage equals SHOT ATTEMPTS plus turnovers.. So usage measures shot attempts, and again: ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts.

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball, and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

[ImKobe]

By posting the usage formula, you've done confirmed how dumb you are - the formula shows that usage equals SHOT ATTEMPTS plus turnovers - so usage measures shot attempts dumbass, and ball-dominance doesn't equal shot attempts.

Ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball (not shot attempts), and Jordan held the ball less than guys like Lebron, Kobe, Harden or Westbrook - the reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

Also, Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE.

By the way I wasn't even the poster you were quoting

and all he said was that Jordan had one of the highest usage ratings, which he did.

And again, why are Jordan stans so defensive?

Why is it a bad thing to be a ball dominant player when you're winning?

Maybe you should find another player to stan because you have to resort to personal insults to get a debate out of someone because no one cares about Jordan's greatness since it has been discussed a million times.

And if you watched Kobe play under Phil in the triangle you'd know he played a lot off-ball as well. Durant also played off-ball mostly this season as Russ was the main decision maker on the team.

[ImKobe]

parroting the same reply over 10 posts, resorting to personal insults when no one has a problem with MJ

might just ignore list this senile old man

[LakersForlife]

Dude sit the f down.jordan was great.but it was 20 years ago..stop making him relevant in this forum..we will remember him but its over he is not playing.all your stats and bullshits are just theory that can never be proven.instead use your time finding a cure for cancer

[3ball]

Why is it a bad thing to be a ball dominant player when you're winning?


Because Jordan wasn't ball-dominant.

He won more than any other perimeter player because he WASN'T ball-dominant..





and all he said was that Jordan had one of the highest usage ratings, which he did.


Usage has nothing to do with the thread - this thread is about ball-dominance and ball-dominance doesn't have anything to do with usage (shot attempts).





And again, why are Jordan stans so defensive?


Because there's no reason to give dumbness and misinformation a pass - ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball (not shot attempts), and Jordan held the ball much less than point-guard-style players like Lebron, Harden or Westbrook.. Consequently, he won far more - his off-ball game fostered superior teamwork and brand of basketball.

The reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did, and preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

And if you want to talk about shot attempts - Jordan had higher TS and ORtg than Bird, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron in the regular season and playoffs.. So he shot more AND had higher efficiency.. Again, that's what anyone would want of their favorite player - to shoot more at higher efficiency - to DO MORE..

[eliteballer]

Uh Jordan's bread and butter his entire career was to iso on one side of the floor..

[oarabbus]

Because Jordan wasn't ball-dominant.

He won more than any other perimeter player because he WASN'T ball-dominant..



Usage has nothing to do with the thread - this thread is about ball-dominance and ball-dominance doesn't have anything to do with usage (shot attempts).





Yes. There is absolutely no correlation between shot attempts and ball-domination :roll:

A statistician 3ball is not :roll:

[3ball]

Yes. There is absolutely no correlation between shot attempts and ball-domination :roll:


If JJ Redick shoots 30 catch-and-shoot jumpers in a game, does that mean he dominated the ball?

Obviously not - ball-dominance equals how long you hold the ball (not shot attempts), and Jordan held the ball much less than point-guard-style players like Lebron, Harden or Westbrook.. Consequently, he won far more - his off-ball game fostered superior teamwork and brand of basketball.

The reason he held the ball far less is because he didn't use live-dribbles as much as they did - instead, he preferred to score via off-ball, triple-threat or post - see the OP to refresh your memory.

[3ball]

Uh Jordan's bread and butter his entire career was to iso on one side of the floor..


Let's get specific.. If he clearouts was his bread and butter, than it should be easy to find games where he ran a lot of them - so how many clearouts did he run during his famous 63 point game?... Or his 69 point game?

Almost NONE... So you're just going along with an ignorant false narrative... Most of his points were scored in other ways - this is a fact - he ran clearouts maybe once or twice per game.

Otoh, there's never been a player that used clearouts more frequently and overtly than Lebron in the 2015 Finals - this is a fact - if you disagree, when did another player run MORE clearouts?.. I'll wait..