I've seen enough. How many people saw Jordan live?

[beastee]

As this board is now on Lebron and Curry being the GOAT after this finals outcome, I have a legit question... How many people on this board actually watched Jordan live from 96-98? And how many of us actually watched him from 91-93? And it doesn't count if you were 2-6 years old.

[JohnnySic]

Me.

[Nilocon165]

Not me but he's definitely the GOAT

[Marchesk]

6 for 6 for 6 kind of seals the deal, even if maybe Russell would have had at least 7.

[SamuraiSWISH]

5 years old, since 1990. 1992 is when I really started realizing what I was watching. By that 3 peat summer, we all pretty much knew he was the greatest. '96 to '98 only solidified it.

[KingPush]

I was 16 when he was first drafted, its been a long journey but i've moved on. Curry is the goat if he wins another ring this year

[Nilocon165]

I was 16 when he was first drafted, its been a long journey but i've moved on. Curry is the goat if he wins another ring this year
No ****ing way in hell you're any older than 19 right now

[bigkingsfan]

Only saw the 2nd three peat, became a huge basketball fan the year prior.

[Boogaboog]

I didn't see him in the 80s/early 90s, but I watched the NBA regularly from 1993 on. He was as good as everyone says he was.

[Prime_Shaq]

Me Myself and I.

[bdreason]

I was raised on MJ and 90's bball. I'm also a Warriors fan. Anyone who thinks Curry is even close to MJ's legacy is a moron.

[beastee]

I was raised on MJ and 90's bball. I'm also a Warriors fan. Anyone who thinks Curry is even close to MJ's legacy is a moron.
Thanks. I LOVE curry. He is the most exciting player in years. But I just want to level set. And as much as I hate on him...I like Lebron. Before the decision, he was my favorite player. But I feel MJ just was on another eye test level that unless you saw it, you will never understand.

[bdreason]

Thanks. I LOVE curry. He is the most exciting player in years. But I just want to level set. And as much as I hate on him...I like Lebron. Before the decision, he was my favorite player. But I feel MJ just was on another eye test level that unless you saw it, you will never understand.


The biggest thing that set MJ apart was his defense and his motor. Not only was he extremely talented offensively, but he could also be the best defender and hardest worker on the court. Nobody in the modern league has the combination of abilities that MJ had.

[Bless Mathews]

I was raised on MJ and 90's bball. I'm also a Warriors fan. Anyone who thinks Curry is even close to MJ's legacy is a moron.


Word. I grew up in 80's.

I saw bird and magic. End of dr j.

Mj the goat of all goats.

Not even close.

[hawke812]

I did. Jordan is the MOPOAT (Most Overrated Player Of All Time).

[Bless Mathews]

I did. Jordan is the MOPOAT (Most Overrated Player Of All Time).

Liar.

Idiot.

[ABG]

watched him during the 2nd 3 peat.

[CuterThanRubio]

None of these guys have!

Youtube highlights only!

It's a complete joke!

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

It doesn't add up!

You watched 20 games of Jordan a year and you are an expert now, please tell me you are kidding!


You were a fan at 5?

I'm sure you totally understood what you were watching and paid attention to the action 100% of the time, because we all know that TODDLERS are excellent at focusing!

These clowns will qualify themselves for Jordan fandom with the least credible story and expect people like me to respect them, oh yeah dude, my dad used to have a bulls keychain so that means I've been a fan since I was 8, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!


:hammerhead:

[nba_55]

None of these guys have!

Youtube highlights only!

It's a complete joke!

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

It doesn't add up!

You watched 20 games of Jordan a year and you are an expert now, please tell me you are kidding!


You were a fan at 5?

I'm sure you totally understood what you were watching and paid attention to the action 100% of the time, because we all know that TODDLERS are excellent at focusing!

These clowns will qualify themselves for Jordan fandom with the least credible story and expect people like me to respect them, oh yeah dude, my dad used to have a bulls keychain so that means I've been a fan since I was 8, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!


:hammerhead:
:roll: :roll: :roll:
shut it down bro !

[kamil]

Still got my game ticket from when I saw him in 1998.

[andgar923]

Im from L.A. and I was naturally a Magic fan. I heard of MJ but only got a few glimpses of him during the sports highlights or whenever a game came on CBS. Some of my friends used to worship him, but I didn't have cable so my experience was limited compared to others.

It wasn't until the neighborhood finally got bootleg cable when I was able to watch him on WGN.

While I knew he was very good, my understanding of the game was immature and mostly limited to highlights. But an older family friend named Ivan really broke down the game for me. He was a die hard hardcore ball fan, old school cat. He showed me the Xs and Os, took me to the park where I played vs older cats. Being around them and not people my age really opened up my understanding of the game. I learned to read the game beyond the highlights, I learned about the nuances, the details that most overlooked.

Our local library had some games on tape so I rented them and observed everything I could. Read books and books, about the legends, and tried to watch every MJ clip I could get my hands on.

We were too poor to afford tickets, so I never got a chance to see him in person.

But the era was just different.

It's hard to explain, it really is. It's like explaining the grunge movement to some, you just had to live in it. Just like one had to be around to experience Michael Jackson releasing a video, that shit was an event that nothing today can compares, one just had to be there and old enough to understand it.

I see some of the 'next' MJ players today, and they don't have the skill (Kobe was the closest), the understanding, the timing, the will, the endurance etc.etc. etc.

It's hard to understand MJ from just watching the videos on Youtube alone.

I saw him play and there's nobody that compares... nobody.

[PsychoBe]

None of these guys have!

Youtube highlights only!

It's a complete joke!

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

It doesn't add up!

You watched 20 games of Jordan a year and you are an expert now, please tell me you are kidding!


You were a fan at 5?

I'm sure you totally understood what you were watching and paid attention to the action 100% of the time, because we all know that TODDLERS are excellent at focusing!

These clowns will qualify themselves for Jordan fandom with the least credible story and expect people like me to respect them, oh yeah dude, my dad used to have a bulls keychain so that means I've been a fan since I was 8, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!


:hammerhead:

i can't breathe :roll: :roll: :roll:

[mr4speed]

As this board is now on Lebron and Curry being the GOAT after this finals outcome, I have a legit question... How many people on this board actually watched Jordan live from 96-98? And how many of us actually watched him from 91-93? And it doesn't count if you were 2-6 years old.
I got to see Jordan live probably a dozen times. The best game was game 6 clincher for his 2nd ring. The Phil Jackson brainstorm was to sit the starters, except Pippen, and the comeback was unreal. Loudest crowd I ever heard. Curry is a phenomenal talent BUT there is no way he is anywhere close to being the defender Jordan was, and that really is where truly great players are best defined - do they have a weakness? John Havlicek said of Oscar Robertson - "he has no weakness as a basketball player". Very few players fit that mold.

[CuterThanRubio]

Im from L.A. and I was naturally a Magic fan. I heard of MJ but only got a few glimpses of him during the sports highlights or whenever a game came on CBS. Some of my friends used to worship him, but I didn't have cable so my experience was limited compared to others.

It wasn't until the neighborhood finally got bootleg cable when I was able to watch him on WGN.

While I knew he was very good, my understanding of the game was immature and mostly limited to highlights. But an older family friend named Ivan really broke down the game for me. He was a die hard hardcore ball fan, old school cat. He showed me the Xs and Os, took me to the park where I played vs older cats. Being around them and not people my age really opened up my understanding of the game. I learned to read the game beyond the highlights, I learned about the nuances, the details that most overlooked.

Our local library had some games on tape so I rented them and observed everything I could. Read books and books, about the legends, and tried to watch every MJ clip I could get my hands on.

We were too poor to afford tickets, so I never got a chance to see him in person.

But the era was just different.

It's hard to explain, it really is. It's like explaining the grunge movement to some, you just had to live in it. Just like one had to be around to experience Michael Jackson releasing a video, that shit was an event that nothing today can compares, one just had to be there and old enough to understand it.

I see some of the 'next' MJ players today, and they don't have the skill (Kobe was the closest), the understanding, the timing, the will, the endurance etc.etc. etc.

It's hard to understand MJ from just watching the videos on Youtube alone.

I saw him play and there's nobody that compares... nobody.

I was expecting this...

You are talking about BOOKS, not a game, but BOOKS!

I've seen it all, Jordan fanboys are the LEAST CREDIBLE and MOST DELUSIONAL

You saw him play live less than 50 times, yet you are going to your grave insisting that he is untouchable and the 90s were the greatest era?


Save your tearjerker coming of age stories for a blog entry, giving out character names and all that, sounds like IVAN likely was buttering you up for a good old fashioned 90s molest fest!

NOSTALGIA has blinded you!

It's hard to understand him based on historical documentation?

No it isn't, it is CLEAR to anyone who has spent time watching clips from that era that players weren't as good as they are now and defenses were HANDCUFFED by stupid rules, do I really need to bump my open three thread?

[Pinkhearts]

Why do NBA stans feel the need to defend their stars across eras?

The game has changed. The game Wilt and Russell played is different from the one Jordan played which is different from the one Curry played.

It's 20 years apart from Jordan to Curry now.

[Lebronxrings]

Yep, grew up with him. I love the guy.

[bdreason]

Random story, but during the '93 NBA Finals I was in high school, and I was at a friends pool party watching the game. I believe it was also the last day of school. There were probably 30 or 40 people there, so people were huddled around the TV; we didn't have 60" flat screens back then. I forget what game it was, but it was the 4th quarter and the game was close. This drunk girl runs in the room crying because some guys threw her in the pool. She was yelling at me to move my car so she could leave (she was boxed in), and I told her to wait until the game was over. She started screaming in my face that she was gonna smash my car if I didn't move it... and I was like, bitch please, go ahead and smash my car I aint missing this. :cheers:

[bigkingsfan]

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

wgn :rockon:
Saw all the MJ games during the threepeat, this was in CA, on Cable.

[NBAGOAT]

the ones who are saying Curry or Lebron are GOATs are trolls which is expected. A few non trolls might try to argue Curry 2016 or Lebron 2013 is as good as MJ at his peak but that's only for a year, no reasonable fan will have curry or lebron ahead of mj career wise. MJ stands out favorably no matter how you look at it, team success, stats, and eye test and even people who didn't watch him mostly have him as GOAT.

[J Shuttlesworth]

None of these guys have!

Youtube highlights only!

It's a complete joke!

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

It doesn't add up!

You watched 20 games of Jordan a year and you are an expert now, please tell me you are kidding!


You were a fan at 5?

I'm sure you totally understood what you were watching and paid attention to the action 100% of the time, because we all know that TODDLERS are excellent at focusing!

These clowns will qualify themselves for Jordan fandom with the least credible story and expect people like me to respect them, oh yeah dude, my dad used to have a bulls keychain so that means I've been a fan since I was 8, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!


:hammerhead:
Can't speak for everyone, but we got WGN here and were able to watch Bulls regular season games. I didn't watch all of them or anything like that, but did watch a lot of them, and all the playoff games. I only remember a few games during the first 3 peat since I was only 6 for the third ring, but I do remember a lot of the 2nd 3 peat run.

[stalkerforlife]

Jordan was the greatest show on earth and he always delivered.

Easily the GOAT.

I was a huge Pippen fan in those days, though.

[CuterThanRubio]

My point still stands

People weren't watching Jordan during the regular season, they were only on the bandwagon when it counted, maybe they were rooting against him but it makes little difference.

20 games worth of Jordan per year

What were these guys doing from 93-95?

Not watching NBA basketball, that's for sure!


NBA fans have a greater understanding of the league as a whole these days, yet oldschool apologists will argue until their last breath that the game was better league-wide, when in reality they were only watching the top teams for less than 30 games per year.

You know damn well you weren't paying attention to bottom feeders like the Wolves during the 90s, but people are at least somewhat familiar with the worst teams now (Speaking of the Wolves they are more talented than the majority of contending teams back in Jordan's prime, easy).

[livinglegend]

Jordan was the greatest show on earth and he always delivered.

Easily the GOAT.

I was a huge Pippen fan in those days, though.

Shut up liar.
No way that you or your parents got the money to buy a tv during that time.

[DoctorP]

Jordan is the greatest. Not even close.

[ILLsmak]

None of these guys have!

Youtube highlights only!

It's a complete joke!

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

It doesn't add up!

You watched 20 games of Jordan a year and you are an expert now, please tell me you are kidding!


You were a fan at 5?

I'm sure you totally understood what you were watching and paid attention to the action 100% of the time, because we all know that TODDLERS are excellent at focusing!

These clowns will qualify themselves for Jordan fandom with the least credible story and expect people like me to respect them, oh yeah dude, my dad used to have a bulls keychain so that means I've been a fan since I was 8, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!


:hammerhead:

you trollin. I saw, but yea it was 2nd 3 peat when I was old enough to really get into it. I was still a nub tho by today's standards. I hated MJ cuz hype, but he was a beast. You couldn't really pick at his game, just hope he failed.

But yea I was in IL. I saw nearly every bulls game since I started watching seriously ( in 94.)

I was one of those super rich people in the 90s with basic cable. WGN... sportschannel oshit.

JOHNNY REDD KERR WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT?

-Smak

[The Iron Fist]

I used to play Jordan vs Bird on NES, along with watching many 80s games. When the Bad Boys used to beat on the Bulls, :roll: It took Scottie Pippen finally growing up for the Bulls to get past that Piston demon. Bo Jackson was even a bigger star than Jordan at the time.

[NZStreetBaller]

3 or 2 rings doesnt make you the goat roflmao what a joke.

[CuterThanRubio]

you trollin. I saw, but yea it was 2nd 3 peat when I was old enough to really get into it. I was still a nub tho by today's standards. I hated MJ cuz hype, but he was a beast. You couldn't really pick at his game, just hope he failed.

But yea I was in IL. I saw nearly every bulls game since I started watching seriously ( in 94.)

I was one of those super rich people in the 90s with basic cable. WGN... sportschannel oshit.

JOHNNY REDD KERR WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT?

-Smak

Trolling when I did nothing but provide facts?

I attended a handful Wolves games in the 90s but you won't see me fronting like it means anything, I was a kid and had fun going to a sporting event, I didn't know much else than that, I was more excited by the blimp floating around than the game itself, and when I see dudes acting like they were knowledgeable diehards in their single digits I feel obligated to expose them.

There isn't a single soul on this board who watched enough Jordan to warrant a badge of honor, you were stuck with your local team for the majority of the time until the playoffs rolled around and not every game was televised nationally, its simple.

Every second of every game is dissected today, even the most meaningless contest between the worst teams is producing highlights that are posted to twitter timelines throughout the matchup.

The reason why the league promoted individual talent over teams in the first place is because you couldn't keep up with your team unless you were nearby or paid for an expensive cable package, but a casual fan could catch Magic or Bird on a semi-regular basis, you can't compare those eras to 2016, things have changed for the better!

[GrapeApe]

I still have a hard time with the realization that many of the posters here DIDN'T see Jordan play. It seems like just yesterday I was sitting on the couch with my dad, listening to the NBA on NBC song in anticipation of Jordan dismantling my Heat in the playoffs. It will feel REALLY strange when my son starts telling me how guys like Lebron, Wade, Curry, Durant, etc..... would be role players in the modern league.

I digress, but yeah, I've watched Jordan at his best and he's without question the greatest player I've ever seen. Maybe not the deity that 3ball makes him out to be but pretty damn close. I'll put it this way, each of his full seasons from 1992-1998 felt like a forgone conclusion he was winning the title.

[beastee]

Was Born in Illinois, started watching Basketball on the regular in 88-89, was in middle school during first run, and in HS during his 2nd run. I watched between 20-35 regular season games a year (red Kerr and larrivee were awesome)...and if you lived in Chicago area at all...everyone watched every playoff game. I remember my family throwing playoff parties during the ECF and finals. NBC at the time carried the finals games and Marv Albert was the voice of the 90s. Jordan...Yes echo'ed through households and we literally watched mouths agape in awe.

[sportjames23]

As this board is now on Lebron and Curry being the GOAT after this finals outcome, I have a legit question... How many people on this board actually watched Jordan live from 96-98? And how many of us actually watched him from 91-93? And it doesn't count if you were 2-6 years old.

Started watching the NBA around 1985 when I lived in Maryland (middle of ACC/Big East country). Didn't watch that many games back then, but loved the Showtime Lakers and therefore hated the Celtics (started becoming a fan of Bird's Celtics when they battled Detroit in 1987). The first Bulls game I watched was in the 1987-88 season. I was hooked (and by that time, I was into the NBA big time). Saw MJ and the Bulls live at the Cap Center in 1990 and 1991.

[beastee]

Started watching the NBA around 1985 when I lived in Maryland (middle of ACC/Big East country). Didn't watch that many games back then, but loved the Showtime Lakers and therefore hated the Celtics (started becoming a fan of Bird's Celtics when they battled Detroit in 1987). The first Bulls game I watched was in the 1987-88 season. I was hooked (and by that time, I was into the NBA big time). Saw MJ and the Bulls live at the Cap Center in 1990 and 1991.
:applause: :applause:

The hand switch layup in 91 against the Lakers was one of those moments as a young fan that hooked me onto the game forever. I remember at the time, the older dudes in the room completely going nuts as if everyone knew the GOAT had arrived right before us. WHAT A TIME.

[rmt]

I've been watching the NBA since before Magic/Bird's rookie year. And MJ is the GOAT. To all you Curry aficionados - there are 2 sides to the court.

You all should be thanking your lucky stars for Thompson.

[sportjames23]

I used to play Jordan vs Bird on NES, along with watching many 80s games. When the Bad Boys used to beat on the Bulls, :roll: It took Scottie Pippen finally growing up for the Bulls to get past that Piston demon. Bo Jackson was even a bigger star than Jordan at the time.


Bo wasn't bigger than MJ back then. Bo was huge, but MJ was still on another level.

[sportjames23]

:applause: :applause:

The hand switch layup in 91 against the Lakers was one of those moments as a young fan that hooked me onto the game forever. I remember at the time, the older dudes in the room completely going nuts as if everyone knew the GOAT had arrived right before us. WHAT A TIME.


:cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

Might as well chime in on this old guys thread. Lol.

I have lived in LA all my life. Die hard Laker fan. I was 15 when my Lakers faced the Bulls in the finals in 1991. I just assumed the Lakers would win because we had Magic. You have to remember, before MJ started winning rings, he was viewed as somewhat of a great individual talent who didn't know how to win like Magic/Bird. And when Perkins hit that 3 in game 1 to steal HCA, I thought we had it. But that just woke MJ up and he simply dominated the next 4 games. I'll never forget that switch of hands lay up. It just showed how much he had control of the game and his opponents. So I witnessed PEAK MJ as it happened.

So I was never an MJ fan growing up. I just became a fan as I got older because I just realized he was just the GOAT. I appreciate greatness. I think we all do. I saw hundreds of MJ games on TV, most of them playoff games, where he did most of his damage.

As with about 95% of people who are old enough to have seen MJ play live, we are convinced at our soul that he will be the GOAT for a long time, perhaps eternity.

[Lebron23]

I started watching the NBA regularly in the 1997 NBA Season. I watched him play for the Chicago Bulls, and Washington Wizards.

[pauk]

I started observing live in 1990-91 somewhere, could have/wanted to start earlier but live NBA games were not so easy to come by in Europe especially in that era (no internet/computers/smart phones/smart tv/youtube/reruns/low NBA broadcasting etc.), games in Croatia were sent live like 1-2 times a week (at 1-4 am) and it was mostly at my time the Bulls, you were there ready to go or else you missed the game forever (unless you timed your VCR to record), forever gone, many games i couldnt watch/rewatch until 2000s when broadband came along & people started spamming game torrents... i watched also tapes (thanks to Dad who got me into basketball + NBA) of the 80s aswell which was mostly Celtics, Lakers games, still many Bulls games...

Anyways, Jordan is the greatest actual individual talent ive ever seen, i am not speaking of accolades, im speaking of actual basketball ability, he was as perfect/complete of a player that there will ever be, he was completely unfair, you didnt watch prime Jordan/Bulls to see who was gona win, you knew that, together with that supporting cast of his in the 90s it was ridicilously one-sided, you just watched for entertainment, "how many points is MJ gona score now?"... this is why i prefered to root for the underdog (Reggie Miller & his Pacers).... he will never be surpassed... people need to forget that... only prime Lebron is the best attempt ive seen yet to try make me change my mind (when speaking of overall basketball ability)...

[Rolando]

I am 50.

What was great about Jordan is that everyone realized at some point that they were witnessing the GOAT...and its not like it was so late in his career either. So basically, every game was like watching a living, breathing, God play.

Nobody has come close after that. Kobe deserves some mention but Jordan was on a whole other level....than anyone who has ever played.

[Asukal]

I started observing live in 1990-91 somewhere, could have/wanted to start earlier but live NBA games were not so easy to come by in Europe especially in that era (no internet/computers/smart phones/smart tv/youtube/reruns/low NBA broadcasting etc.), games in Croatia were sent live like 1-2 times a week (at 1-4 am) and it was mostly at my time the Bulls, you were there ready to go or else you missed the game forever (unless you timed your VCR to record), forever gone, many games i couldnt watch/rewatch until 2000s when broadband came along & people started spamming game torrents... i watched also tapes (thanks to Dad who got me into basketball + NBA) of the 80s aswell which was mostly Celtics, Lakers games, still many Bulls games...

Anyways, Jordan is the greatest actual individual talent ive ever seen, i am not speaking of accolades, im speaking of actual basketball ability, he was as perfect/complete of a player that there will ever be, he was completely unfair, you didnt watch prime Jordan/Bulls to see who was gona win, you knew that, together with that supporting cast of his in the 90s it was ridicilously one-sided, you just watched for entertainment, "how many points is MJ gona score now?"... this is why i prefered to root for the underdog (Reggie Miller & his Pacers).... he will never be surpassed... people need to forget that... only prime Lebron is the best attempt ive seen yet to try make me change my mind (when speaking of overall basketball ability)...

You also watched MJ flop many times. :applause: :oldlol:

[pauk]

I am 50.

What was great about Jordan is that everyone realized at some point that they were witnessing the GOAT...and its not like it was so late in his career either. So basically, every game was like watching a living, breathing, God play.

Nobody has come close after that. Kobe deserves some mention but Jordan was on a whole other level....than anyone who has ever played.

True... i just am not so sure why, when Lebron was around, he reached a higher level of overall basketball ability dont you agree? Certainly much closer to Jordan than Kobe got, different gamestyles tho... Kobe was much more similar to Jordans gamestyle (visually), perhaps more similar to him in that regard than anybody in history, maybe thats it....

[Bless Mathews]

I am 50.

What was great about Jordan is that everyone realized at some point that they were witnessing the GOAT...and its not like it was so late in his career either. So basically, every game was like watching a living, breathing, God play.

Nobody has come close after that. Kobe deserves some mention but Jordan was on a whole other level....than anyone who has ever played.

Word.

Spot on.

after he won his first rang, he turned into that "God".

I watched in amazement by his moves and skill, but after he won , it changed.

Like no one ever in sports , you JUST KNEW HE WAS GONNA WIN.

Not if, but WHEN.

No one was or has been even close to having that feeling of invincibility when watching.

There was no doubt, EVER ,while watching the next 5 CHAMPIONSHIPS that he wasnt gonna get it done.

Can't even really describe it unless you witnessed it.

No one is even close

[Prime_Shaq]

True... i just am not so sure why, when Lebron was around, he reached a higher level of overall basketball ability dont you agree? Certainly much closer to Jordan than Kobe got, different gamestyles tho... Kobe was much more similar to Jordans gamestyle (visually), perhaps more similar to him in that regard than anybody in history, maybe thats it....
Kobe is actually the biggest Jordan stan, he actually went out there and emulated him. He just fell short slightly in every aspect and I don't even mean that as a diss. What Kobe did was remarkable but there's a reason there's only one GOAT.

[pauk]

You also watched MJ flop many times. :applause: :oldlol:

Yes...? "A veteran move!" is what it was called in the good ol days... i like many have indeed seen MJ draw charges/fouls in any way just like any player has done before & after him in NBA history, im sure any of you who have seen Jordan games have also seen him try draw fouls many times before that didnt go his way, and then complain to the reffs about it, its part of the game.... unfortunately there was no technology to nitpick those things into a video / gifs / youtube and then make fun of it in a damn internet forum... nor is there enough Jordan haters in todays technology keen on rewatching 1000 Jordan games to nitpick all his "flops" into a video, no reason for it whatsoever either... it will take years.... i attempted/attempt to do that just to prove a point (that any player can look like the biggest flopper of all time if you recorded all his flops) with at least 150 games... but it takes lots of time/work... for what, just to prove some stupid trolls a point...

Actually, during that time i infact was a fan of maybe the biggest "flopper" of all time, Reggie Miller... and there is no single GIF or video to prove it... in the 90s it was just a "Veteran move!" unfortunately, applauded by many... especially when Jordan did it, doing his headfake and then rips his arms through the defender, falling down when its contact on both ends, overacting, it happened, completely natural, part of the game.... a veteran move!

If Reggie was around in this era... lol... where everybody in the world watches him from every single camera angle in 1080p, for free, through uber fast internet... and then replay/slowmo... and then wrought in computer programs.... and then GIF / youtube his mishaps.... he would be known as the GOAT flopper... and that is my favorite player of all time... Yet, even Lebron has right now more flop footage than even Dennis freaking Rodman (dont actually even recall seeing a gif/video of him flopping)...

[pauk]

Kobe is actually the biggest Jordan stan, he actually went out there and emulated him. He just fell short slightly in every aspect and I don't even mean that as a diss. What Kobe did was remarkable but there's a reason there's only one GOAT.

Absolutely, Kobe is in my top 10 at least.

[Rolando]

Word.

Spot on.

after he won his first rang, he turned into that "God".

I watched in amazement by his moves and skill, but after he won , it changed.

Like no one ever in sports , you JUST KNEW HE WAS GONNA WIN.

Not if, but WHEN.

No one was or has been even close to having that feeling of invincibility when watching.

There was no doubt, EVER ,while watching the next 5 CHAMPIONSHIPS that he wasnt gonna get it done.

Can't even really describe it unless you witnessed it.

No one is even close


Invincible. That is a great word to describe Jordan.

Also, he just carried himself differently than anyone. Completely commanded the attention and controlled the game.

Again, if this was ancient Greece, he would have been acknowledged as a living God. For real.

[coin24]

GOAT by far:bowdown:

[Rolando]

True... i just am not so sure why, when Lebron was around, he reached a higher level of overall basketball ability dont you agree? Certainly much closer to Jordan than Kobe got, different gamestyles tho... Kobe was much more similar to Jordans gamestyle (visually), perhaps more similar to him in that regard than anybody in history, maybe thats it....

True, Lebron is more of a facilitator than Jordan and, physically, had at least the potential to reach God level. But, simply put, he didn't achieve that. Lebron was never "invincible". Lebron does not have the same presence or mentality.

One thing that Lebron could have done but he didn't: Compete in the dunk contest.

There is fear inside Lebron. There was no fear inside Jordan.

[coin24]

Lol at pauk bringing that bran shit in here:lol

The guy has no jump shot
No footwork, Just bulldozes his way for layups
Unclutch
Soon to be 2/7
Too scared to enter dunk comp
Constantly chokes at the end of games
Career colluder (lucky karma always makes him lose finals)


And you're saying he's the closest you've seen to the GOAT MJ 6/6 alpha batman???:roll: :roll:


In reality Lebron is the closest we've seen to pippen

[stalkerforlife]

Lol at pauk bringing that bran shit in here:lol

The guy has no jump shot
No footwork, Just bulldozes his way for layups
Unclutch
Soon to be 2/7
Too scared to enter dunk comp
Constantly chokes at the end of games
Career colluder (lucky karma always makes him lose finals)


And you're saying he's the closest you've seen to the GOAT MJ 6/6 alpha batman???:roll: :roll:


In reality Lebron is the closest we've seen to pippen

Bransvestites have no shame nor grasp on reality. :lol

[elementally morale]

I'm 42. Started watching in 1980.

[Stringer Bell]

I started watching him regularly in 1989. It was already obvious by then that he was an amazing player. He had a great postseason and led the Bulls to two upsets on the road to losing in the ECF to Detroit. Of course there was "The Shot" against Cleveland, and also game 3 against Detroit when he led them to a late comeback.

I thought LeBron had the best chance of surpassing Jordan as the consensus choice for GOAT player. While he's a great player, I don't think LeBron was quite on Jordan's level for peak play, and it is very difficult to picture him passing him career/accomplishment wise either.

[DoctorP]

I'm 38. Had WGN. Had TNT. Always thought Jordan was a ballhog dunker that couldnt shoot when I was a kid but thats what made him cool. He was like an assassin scorer. Bird was known as the best shooter so I thought he was a better player but Jordan was cooler and my favorite. I had no idea Jordan was as good as he was just based off of what the kids were talking about at the time. I thought he was more of a Vince Carter type...all dunks. Looking back, he did have the total package except for the three ball. His mid-range was solid.

I saw Jordan finally win his first title and do the "oh , a spectacular move" thing in my room while drawing comics. I was happy that he finally won because so many people doubted him. He started playing smarter. He started dunking less but winning a lot more. Two more titles entrenched him as an all-time great and his comeback against the Knicks down 0-2 was legendary as were the other Bulls/Knicks battles. He really killed them.

When Jordan retired the first time I was a freshman in highschool and was depressed the rest of the day. It was like someone had died. A year later, I was shocked when he got 55 against the Knicks and hit Wennington for the GW but I wasnt shocked when he lost to the Magic in his comeback campaign. I just felt the dude was not going to get back to his old dominance.

When he three-peated again he was like a mythological force during that reign, I was amazed at how good he was shooting and his IQ was off the charts. It was undisputed greatness although he was running out of gas towards the end and his FG% was dipping. Then he scored 50 as an old man on the Wizards and it was just ridiculous. goat.

I will put Jordan ahead of Kareem, Wilt and Russell based only on the fact that he is only 6'6 and a guard. The centers of the early days were much bigger and had unfair advantages. The game catered to them. Jordan was not head and shoulders above everyone else, he just worked harder and could jump higher. That seems more challenging than just posting and shooting above everyones heads. Dr. J, Oscar, Bird, West and Magic are the other non-centers to be known as GOATS but their career accomplishments don't come close to Jordan's so Jordan wins. If Jordan was on PED's I would change my tune.

I think todays game has much smoother offense and is a different game than it was back in the older days. I don't mind it at all. I think Curry is a unique player, I have never seen anything like him and that's exciting. The rules changes, spacing and euro flavor are pretty cool. I don't hate todays game.

[elementally morale]

Having watched Jordan back then, I disliked him. I thought he was a ballhog. I was a Laker fan who started playing organized basketball in 1982. It was only years later I started to understand the game though. When Jordan won his 1st championship I started hating him even more. As I'm in Europe, I grew up with and played the FIBA game. MJ was too much individual game for my taste -- but hating him had more to do with him beating LA to his 1st ring.

BTW, the Jordan GOAT talks started only in 1992 with the Dream Team in Barcelona. Pre 1990, the general consensus was that MJ's style of play doesn't lead anywhere.

People mentioned Kobe. Well, he wasn't as good as Jordan and was just as big a ballhog. And I like him. So I have to assume my hatred for MJ was a result of him not being on the team I was rooting for.

[90sgoat]

I could only watch second 3 peat regularly because there were no live televises games in Europe before mid 90s. Me and my brother got our parents to buy this 'descrambler' device so you could watch the games (which in addition descrambled porn - which was not so easy to come by then).

I also watch Dream Team play in 1992 and began playing shortly after.

The playoffs was what sealed the deal with MJ, he just never failed, on the big stage or in the small things. Every time you thought, maybe he isn't invincible he'd get the shot or get the steal. Like that final play against Jazz where he steals the ball from Malone and scores at the other end. That was just a career full of such moments again and again and again.

I will admit to be slightly dissapointed with 2nd 3peat MJ because he didn't dunk as much (still more than current 'stars' ask 3Ball).

I also got DVD packages of MJs greatest games when DVD came out, much better quality than the crap Youtube vids.

It's a shame I didn't get to watch the first 3 peat live though, MJ was clearly overall better then.

[elementally morale]

I could only watch second 3 peat regularly because there were no live televises games in Europe before mid 90s.


Luckily enough, if you played basketball, there were plenty of tapes post 1982. Also, I think Eurosport started to televise games on the regular in 1990 or so. Not every game, of course. But a few games each week. And I'm sure I watched the whole 1991 Finals on TV live. Same with 1992 and 1993.

[Inferno]

I was too young :confusedshrug:

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

I was born in the 70's. I grew up watching Dr.J and Bird. But once Ordan came along u just knew he was GoAT

The way he shanked other players with his own knife was amazing. This was the 90's so pretty much every player carried them.. He went through the Bloodbath against the badboys and came out teh GOAT.

I want to see any modern era Stan say that the modern game is harder. Just try.

:D :D :D

[andgar923]

I was expecting this...

You are talking about BOOKS, not a game, but BOOKS!

I've seen it all, Jordan fanboys are the LEAST CREDIBLE and MOST DELUSIONAL

You saw him play live less than 50 times, yet you are going to your grave insisting that he is untouchable and the 90s were the greatest era?


Save your tearjerker coming of age stories for a blog entry, giving out character names and all that, sounds like IVAN likely was buttering you up for a good old fashioned 90s molest fest!

NOSTALGIA has blinded you!

It's hard to understand him based on historical documentation?

No it isn't, it is CLEAR to anyone who has spent time watching clips from that era that players weren't as good as they are now and defenses were HANDCUFFED by stupid rules, do I really need to bump my open three thread?

F*ckin idiot.

I got cable around the 90-91 season or so, so I was able to watch EVERY game since then, either on Prime Ticket, WGN, TNT, NBC or other outlet.

And yeah I read books, we didn't have internet back then so that's how we got some of our information.

Nostalgia?

It's clear as day that today's era is lacking in many aspects. And the rules cater to today's perimeter players, that's a FACT.

Worthless slime.

[elementally morale]

Nostalgia?

I'm about your age and I think nostalgia plays a role. When watching some of those 80s and 90s games I remembered being so much better than today's games... well I don't really think that any more. It was different, yes. Better? I don't know.

Some of the passes Magic made and back in the day I thought were insane seem a lot less spectacular 30 years later. The same with Bird's shooting. Defenses were not better, that's for sure. I could go on but I won't.

There are 3 things that come to mind that were more appealing to me:

1) Less whining and flopping
2) Big men with power and skill, playing the traditional big man game
3) Midrange shoting

[andgar923]

I'm about your age and I think nostalgia plays a role. When watching some of those 80s and 90s games I remembered being so much better than today's games... well I don't really think that any more. It was different, yes. Better? I don't know.

Some of the passes Magic made and back in the day I thought were insane seem a lot less spectacular 30 years later. The same with Bird's shooting. Defenses were not better, that's for sure. I could go on but I won't.

There are 3 things that come to mind that were more appealing to me:

1) Less whining and flopping
2) Big men with power and skill, playing the traditional big man game
3) Midrange shoting

No doubt some of the passes Magic made can be done today, but there's some that can't. But it wasn't just his passes that made him great, it was his timing and leadership. I don't see that type of decision making and leadership by anyone today, nobody. Bron is great and all, he's made some passes that would make Magic proud, but his timing and overall court sense and vision aren't there.

The defense of that era weren't just more physical, the defense got away with more. The defensive tactics are almost the same as today's just throw in more physical play and rules that allow them the defense more freely and that makes that era better defensively as well.

I will say that today's players are more multi skilled than before. Not only are they more multi skilled there are more that are multi skilled. The overall talent is perhaps better BUT that doesn't make them better or the league/game better. Because there are things that are missing from today's game.

Example...

Oakley could never handle the ball like some PFs today. He wasn't as athletic as some power forwards today. The same can be said about Willis, Thorpe, Mahon, etc.etc.etc.

But I'd take them over 90% of today's players because they understood the game, they understood their role, they were tougher and they understood their position.

They weren't trying to be combo power forwards, they were there to bruise and act as a shield to protect the rim.

Westbrook would fly past most point guards from the past. He's bigger, stronger, faster than just about any starting pg from past eras. But would you seriously take him over Stockton or Porter if you were in a title game with 2 minutes to go?

NO because he's an IDIOT

Again, today's players don't have the same overall understanding or nuance of the game that past players did.

The biggest irony of all is today's players are multi skilled, but they still lack basic skills and nuances. We see it every game, almost every play.

The so called 'modern day defense' has been done before, just perhaps not named. I can go back and show examples of the same type of defense being played back then. There was true zone being played back then, they may say they do but they don't. Now you take away the physical play and implement rules that cater to perimeter players and we have softer swiss cheese defense that allows Westbrook to waltz to the rim at almost every possession, Harden lives at the ft line.

And going back to Bird.

He may not appear special to you anymore. But that's because perhaps maybe YOU are caught up in the moment?

So there's Nostalgia and then there's living in the moment and forgetting the past.

Only big man that I can think of that can shoot like Bird today is Dirk, not Durant, nor anyone else. Durant can shoot, but he doesn't have Bir'd ability to get shots off, Durant is very basic when compared to Bird. Bird could get shots off when there wasn't a shot, he could hit you in the post, mid or perimeter. He could shoot off one leg, two legs, right or left hand. He could shoot over you or under you. We just saw how fragile and weak KD can be, let KD put up the same numbers vs a more physical defense.

Or how about we have Bird play vs today's?

Who'd you think will do better?

[Gileraracer]

Since the average Lebron stan is 14y/o not much of them ever have seen Jordan play

[Overdrive]

None of these guys have!

Youtube highlights only!

It's a complete joke!

The only time they would have been able to watch him is during the playoffs or the small handful of nationally televised games if they had cable, unless they lived in Illinois.

How many of these guys were living in the greater Chicago area during the 80s and 90s?

It doesn't add up!

You watched 20 games of Jordan a year and you are an expert now, please tell me you are kidding!


You were a fan at 5?

I'm sure you totally understood what you were watching and paid attention to the action 100% of the time, because we all know that TODDLERS are excellent at focusing!

These clowns will qualify themselves for Jordan fandom with the least credible story and expect people like me to respect them, oh yeah dude, my dad used to have a bulls keychain so that means I've been a fan since I was 8, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS!


:hammerhead:


I'm no Jordan fan, so it doesn't nearly apply anyway.

I started watching in '95, knew what's going on the next year. I wasn't 5, I wasn't 8 either. I had no source for every Bulls game as I'm overseas and even if I had I didn't care for them that much, but TV showed 3 games a week and chances were it was a Bulls game 2 out of 3 times, because they were so hyped by then.

They showed every playoff game of course and during the '99 lockout they showed reruns of old Bulls playoffs and other great series.

That's more than most people watch their favourite players nowadays. Judging by the reactions on this board after some games, you can be sure alot of people barely watch the games, but checks the boxscore..

[returnofthemack]

In started paying attention to basketball (Jordan) around 93 when I was 10. I saw Jordan live in 97-98 against the cavs. I started hating Jordan near the end cause I was sick of watching him win but he was and is clearly the best I've ever seen.

[elementally morale]

And going back to Bird.
He may not appear special to you anymore.


He is special. But I find him special because he did what he did back then. You may say if he played today he would be better with all his talent. I think it's true. However, the plays he made then are not THAT special now. (Same thing with Wilt.)



But that's because perhaps maybe YOU are caught up in the moment?

Well, I think as a fan you SHOULD BE. It's not history, it's sports. All I'm saying is: the game has changed. Is it better now? I don't know. I think it's different and not worse.

[diamenz]

thirty-two year chicago native. saw it all. timeless, priceless.

...never got to a game though =/

[Psileas]

As this board is now on Lebron and Curry being the GOAT after this finals outcome, I have a legit question... How many people on this board actually watched Jordan live from 96-98? And how many of us actually watched him from 91-93? And it doesn't count if you were 2-6 years old.

Doesn't matter. The "GOAT" matter doesn't cover the 1985-now era, it covers the 1947-now or, at worst, the 1956-now era, if we want to remove the pre-shot clock era. Lots of people who saw prime Wilt/Russell/Kareem play still contend that one of them is the GOAT. The MJ fans that don't respect their opinions (and I know they are many, many of whom will try to hide behind the "I'm not taking anything away from X, but basketball has changed a lot since" curtain) should not expect and demand any different behavior towards their own opinions by younger generations.
When someone wants to judge the GOAT, he has to have viewed or studied all of those eras, but not only this: He also has to drop his biases aside, his "prisoner of the moment" times aside and retain a somewhat stable set of criteria as years go by, so that he doesn't promote his childhood/young adulthood heroes, which is what most fans do, unless he has no problem applying the same new criteria to older players time and time again.

[elementally morale]

In order to have some perspective, let's take a look at a different sport, like football (soccer). Here is a collection of 2015-2016 goals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUD2EPWVjwE

Compare these moves to those of the 80s and early 90s. Check the defense. The speed. Etc.

As you are a lot less likely to be biased with soccer players, you will be able to see the difference 30 years makes. It's the same with basketball. It makes no sense comparing eras.

[f0und]

i started watching basketball at around the time jordan was getting his annual beatings by detroit in the playoffs. first beatdown was a bit hazy. second beatdown, i was more into it. by the time the third beatdown rolled around, i was had become a huge bulls/basketball fan and, like nearly everyone else, hated the detroit pistons with a passion. i watched jordan fail and fail again, then rise up as a better player, won his first chip, never looked back and became the goat, putting on legendary performances on the regular. i watched it all. thank the heavens for WGN.

jordan is the GOAT and imo, its not even close. when people prop up kobe next to jordan, i just find it so stupid because these kids dont even know. they didnt see it with their own eyes. now im not the type of jordan stan that says that noone will ever come close to jordan. or a stan that doesnt want anyone to come close. i hope one day someone comes along and is better than jordan because well, who doesnt want to see god tier basketball? but that day is not today. and im not gonna prop up someone undeservingly. the only player since jordan to make me *hit my pants was curry this year in the regular season, but sadly, it was only reg season.

look at it this way. think of all the great perimeter players over the last decade or so. durant, lebron, wade, kobe, iverson, tmac, curry, etc. think of their single greatest peak season. durants mvp season, wade's 09, kobe's 06, curry this year. think about how those seasons made legacies and how much fans have fawned over them as if thats the greatest thing theyve ever seen. now think, jordan made an entire career out of those types of seasons.

[Dro]

Me.

[the mesiah]

First Watched him in 86 playoffs against celtics on cbs sports ,I can still hear Heinsohn/Stockton do commentary like it was yesterday.
Watched regular season games with Jim Durham , Wayne Larrivee , and of course Johnny Red Kerr and the ones who really watched the games would remember the "Bulls Eye" pre game show before the game .

[miggyme1]

I did.....Jordan was not as entertaining as curry but Jordan put fear in your heart something no other ball player has ever done. im not talking about fear in just the hearts of the opposing team but in the viewers.


Everytime I think of Jordan I always get this image of him walking towards me chewing his gum with that death stare.

I was a kid but man I feared Jordan.

[AirFederer]

I did.90s. Could have watched Bird, Magic and MJ etc in the 80s if I didnt live in a country with no bball broadcasting at that time.

[chocolatethunder]

As this board is now on Lebron and Curry being the GOAT after this finals outcome, I have a legit question... How many people on this board actually watched Jordan live from 96-98? And how many of us actually watched him from 91-93? And it doesn't count if you were 2-6 years old.
I'm 44. I saw him play the Sixers in Philly in the playoffs. I saw his whole career.

[CuterThanRubio]

F*ckin idiot.

I got cable around the 90-91 season or so, so I was able to watch EVERY game since then, either on Prime Ticket, WGN, TNT, NBC or other outlet.

And yeah I read books, we didn't have internet back then so that's how we got some of our information.

Nostalgia?

It's clear as day that today's era is lacking in many aspects. And the rules cater to today's perimeter players, that's a FACT.

Worthless slime.

Worthless slime...are we referencing your music or your basketball opinions?

It's alright, Ivan isn't around to hurt you anymore, you are safe here!

You COULD watch every game but you claimed that you DIDN'T, 20 games max per year like I said, your incessant whining isn't softening the impact of my TRUE statements!

It is clear that the 90s were lacking, the game became so stagnant that they had to SHORTEN the three point line!

Illegal defense = sloppy iso fest, it is fine if you prefer iso ball, just don't act like it is superior to modern offenses!

These foreigners only got glimpses of NBA basketball and they are clinging to their earliest experiences, that is called NOSTALGIA INDUCED IGNORANCE!


Prepare yourselves for the greatest display of basketball the world has ever witnessed, the 2016 finals!

The 90s are over, Jordan is a relic of a watered down league, time to move forward!

[DLeagueWannabe]

I saw him. My first true memory of him was in 93 when he retired. I was 7 at the time. He's the best I've ever seen, or should I say, he's the best player relative to the competition he played against I've ever seen.

Take from that what you will.

[DLeagueWannabe]

The biggest thing that set MJ apart was his defense and his motor. Not only was he extremely talented offensively, but he could also be the best defender and hardest worker on the court. Nobody in the modern league has the combination of abilities that MJ had.

This. I always say, "MJ is Kobe with Westbrook's motor and explosion."

[senelcoolidge]

Since the early 90's and my Dad has NBA games on vhs from the 80's..so I've seen tape of him in the late 80's. I hated Jordan and the Bulls because they just destroyed everyone, I was not a Bulls fan. He's the GOAT.

[elementally morale]

These foreigners only got glimpses of NBA basketball and they are clinging to their earliest experiences, that is called NOSTALGIA INDUCED IGNORANCE!


Foreigner or not, having watched ANY (let alone hundreds of) games from the 80s and 90s trumps having watched only highlights. You have a point: as you get older, nostalgia does play a part. On the other hand, when you are young you lack experience. Pick your poison.

[HoopologyPhD]

I was lucky to see MJ in his last game against the Cavs as a Wizard and he put on a show with 26 points.

[ClipperRevival]

Doesn't matter. The "GOAT" matter doesn't cover the 1985-now era, it covers the 1947-now or, at worst, the 1956-now era, if we want to remove the pre-shot clock era. Lots of people who saw prime Wilt/Russell/Kareem play still contend that one of them is the GOAT. The MJ fans that don't respect their opinions (and I know they are many, many of whom will try to hide behind the "I'm not taking anything away from X, but basketball has changed a lot since" curtain) should not expect and demand any different behavior towards their own opinions by younger generations.
When someone wants to judge the GOAT, he has to have viewed or studied all of those eras, but not only this: He also has to drop his biases aside, his "prisoner of the moment" times aside and retain a somewhat stable set of criteria as years go by, so that he doesn't promote his childhood/young adulthood heroes, which is what most fans do, unless he has no problem applying the same new criteria to older players time and time again.

I think you can still be objective without having watched the 60's and 70's, especially when considering GOAT. That is select company to begin with. Not like discussing the top 10 PGs from 1970-1973 or something like that. Like Russell, I can see that but you can come back with the fact that he wasn't dominant offensively. GOAT winner? Yes. But straight up GOAT? Not to me. Wilt? His peak dominance is well known. His physical prowess is well known. But what's also well known is his tendency to not show up in games that matter. And that is a huge negative for me. KAJ has a case if you want to look at the entire picture. He has longevity and GOAT college career over MJ along with the individual accolades.

I mean I don't think anything I said is biased or outlandish. To be the true GOAT, you have to check important boxes. Not being dominant in one end is one. Disappearing in huge playoff games is one. KAJ and MJ checked the most boxes. To me, they are the only two with the case for GOAT.

[Smoke117]

On Ish? Maybe 20% of us.

[G0ATbe]

I did, and obviously he was good. But not Kobe/Curry tier. He played in the weakest era ive ever seen on arguably the most stacked team of all time. Simply wouldnt be the same player today. He was just ahead of his time athletically.