Could we ALL AGREE NOW the EAST IS TRASH?

[imnew09]

Lmfao, Raptors in the Eastern Conference Final :facepalm

1st round exit in the West.


"Cavs are the best team ever, they're on a roll! 8-0! Going for 12-0!!!!!!

16-1!"

LMFAOO :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

its a disgrace for teams like the spurs and okc to watch this joke of a finals..

lechokes finals appearances mean literally NOTHING

[Asukal]

https://media.giphy.com/media/bmujtlix2RKZG/giphy.gif

[Ben Simmons]

Are we really doing this after 1 game?

[NBAGOAT]

and what will OP say if the Cavs win game 2. Thunder got blown out one of their 1st 2 road games too.

[stalkerforlife]

its a disgrace for teams like the spurs and okc to watch this joke of a finals..

lechokes finals appearances mean literally NOTHING

https://media.giphy.com/media/bmujtlix2RKZG/giphy.gif

[Mr. Jabbar]

Thunder got blown out one of their 1st 2 road games too.

not with the 2 best opposing players taking a nap and drinking margaritas on the bench

[PickernRoller]

not with the 2 best opposing players taking a nap and drinking margaritas on the bench

https://media.giphy.com/media/bmujtlix2RKZG/giphy.gif

[NBAGOAT]

not with the 2 best opposing players taking a nap and drinking margaritas on the bench

and the warriors bench is never going play that well this series again.

[imnew09]

and what will OP say if the Cavs win game 2. Thunder got blown out one of their 1st 2 road games too.


You could join us at the California Championship Cruise :cheers: :banana: :roll:

Good dank, hot girls, perfect weather, in CALI

[Funktion]

not with the 2 best opposing players taking a nap and drinking margaritas on the bench


:lol

[MP.Trey]

Can we all agree to make assumptions about the entire league after one game?

[MP.Trey]

not with the 2 best opposing players taking a nap and drinking margaritas on the bench
That Curry killer instinct really showing. Really carried them to this victory.

[Tycriss]

Pop in the Eastern Conference ? 15 Finals NBA ?

[jrong]

That Curry killer instinct really showing. Really carried them to this victory.

And yet the Cavs still lost by 15. How many games this series do you think the Cavs will hold Curry and Klay to a combined 20 points? They missed the most massive of opportunities tonight.

[G-train]

And yet the Cavs still lost by 15. How many games this series do you think the Cavs will hold Curry and Klay to a combined 20 points? They missed the most massive of opportunities tonight.

yer but they had some performances that may not happen again as well.

[G-train]

Lmfao, Raptors in the Eastern Conference Final :facepalm

1st round exit in the West.


"Cavs are the best team ever, they're on a roll! 8-0! Going for 12-0!!!!!!

16-1!"

LMFAOO :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol

smh

[imnew09]

yer but they had some performances that may not happen again as well.


Yea, like Klay and Curry combined for less than 30


BETTER WATCH OUT!

[bobopenguin]

Can we all agree to make assumptions about the entire league after one game?

pls, we can tell that eastern con sucks even before the final game 1.

[Done_And_Done]

As a Raptors fan, I'll say and leave you with this...

The East is trash...

That's been compressed in a bucket of shit...

[oarabbus]

That Curry killer instinct really showing. Really carried them to this victory.


You say that like it makes the loss less bad.

It makes it worse. Is that really what you're clinging to? Trolling Currystans?

[Sakkreth]

Nope. It's one game. Cavs lost harder @ Toronto than this game @ GSW.

[Born Sinner]

That Curry killer instinct really showing. Really carried them to this victory.
Your f.cken stupid ass prolly though youd see cle hoist a trophy :roll: dumb bitch

[Snarky Narc]

Lmfao, Raptors in the Eastern Conference Final :facepalm

1st round exit in the West.


"Cavs are the best team ever, they're on a roll! 8-0! Going for 12-0!!!!!!

16-1!"

LMFAOO :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol
:roll:

[DMAVS41]

The Cavs are an elite team regardless of conference...so this game means nothing for conference strength.

The East is of course trash though...been that way overall for nearly 2 decades....but that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't an elite team in this league...which they very clearly are

The problem is that it ends up hurting the Cavs by playing in the East once they reach the finals because they haven't been remotely tested like the Warriors were.

So of course in game 1 they are going to be out of sorts because they are playing real teams.

I'd like to see what happens in game 2...the Cavs did a lot of good things last night and I kind of feel like they were just a bit off overall.

However, Lebron is going to have to make some shots from range consistently to loosen up the defense and get the role players more involved. If they can continue to single cover him and he can't absolutely dominate...the Cavs are drawing dead.

[tpols]

Nope. It's one game. Cavs lost harder @ Toronto than this game @ GSW.


those toronto games were throw aways .. and took the games of their lifetimes from lowry and derozan to achieve.

last night splash bros played like shit and they still whooped ass. think about that.

[Snarky Narc]

That Curry killer instinct really showing. Really carried them to this victory.
So what you are saying is that LeBron can't beat a West team even when its stars are playing like rubbish. This emphasizes how bad the East is.

[choppermagic]

And yet the Cavs still lost by 15. How many games this series do you think the Cavs will hold Curry and Klay to a combined 20 points? They missed the most massive of opportunities tonight.


Right. Why does Curry have to jack up shots in the 4th Q when his team is already rolling? Lebron fans can only focus on FG% and stats and seem to ignore the most important part - winning! By having the role players step up in Game 1, it makes the GSW MORE dangerous for the rest of the series. Now the Cavs will have to decide how they want to play all 5 guys on the floor instead of their focus on 2

[Dragonyeuw]

You mean there are people arguing that it *isn't* trash? I thought east= trash( compared to the west) was a consensus for most of the past 15 years?

[GINOBILI!]

You mean there are people arguing that it *isn't* trash? I thought east= trash( compared to the west) was a consensus for most of the past 15 years?
LeBron fans have ignored this in their constant praise of the Cavs record in the playoffs and how many consecutive Finals he has been to.

[Wally450]

The Cavs are an elite team regardless of conference...so this game means nothing for conference strength.

The East is of course trash though...been that way overall for nearly 2 decades....but that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't an elite team in this league...which they very clearly are

The problem is that it ends up hurting the Cavs by playing in the East once they reach the finals because they haven't been remotely tested like the Warriors were.

So of course in game 1 they are going to be out of sorts because they are playing real teams.

I'd like to see what happens in game 2...the Cavs did a lot of good things last night and I kind of feel like they were just a bit off overall.

However, Lebron is going to have to make some shots from range consistently to loosen up the defense and get the role players more involved. If they can continue to single cover him and he can't absolutely dominate...the Cavs are drawing dead.

Only remotely reasonable post in this thread.

[Young X]

The east isn't trash. There were some pretty good teams. Raptors were one of the best teams in the league, Miami was solid, Hawks weren't bad, Celtics weren't bad, Hornets were decent. Clearly improved from the last few years.

But what it comes down to is there's no player in the east that can even come close to challenging Lebron James. That's the difference.

I don't know if there has been a bigger gap between a player and the rest of their conference than James and the eastern conference from 2013 to now. He really is the king and everybody else are his peasants.

At least before you had guys like Dwight, Rose, prime Wade, Bosh and KG that could threaten him. But those guys fell off. Hell you could argue the 2nd best player in the east was on Bron's team in the past 3-4 years.

[MP.Trey]

You say that like it makes the loss less bad.

It makes it worse. Is that really what you're clinging to? Trolling Currystans?
I don't really see how it makes it worse. We locked down the two best scorers on the team, similar to what we did early last year, played like shit on offense with hero ball and still had a chance to win the game going into the fourth. I like our situation going into game 2.

Curry is the biggest frontrunner superstar in our league so of course I'm going to troll his stans when he continually underperforms in the Finals. It's an easy jab.

[GINOBILI!]

The Cavs are an elite team regardless of conference...so this game means nothing for conference strength.

The East is of course trash though...been that way overall for nearly 2 decades....but that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't an elite team in this league...which they very clearly are

They are an elite team in the same way the Thunder are an elite team. But, not all elite teams make the Finals unless they are the only elite team in their conference, which on paper gives them more credit than they deserve. Cavs are an elite team that would have lost in round 2 if they were out in the West.

[DMAVS41]

The east isn't trash. There were some pretty good teams. Raptors were one of the best teams in the league, Miami was solid, Hawks weren't bad, Celtics weren't bad, Hornets were decent. Clearly improved from the last few years.

But what it comes down to is there's no player in the east that can even come close to challenging Lebron James. That's the difference.

I don't know if there has been a bigger gap between a player and the rest of their conference than James and the eastern conference from 2013 to now. He really is the king and everybody else are his peasants.

At least before you had guys like Dwight, Rose, prime Wade, Bosh and KG that could threaten him. But those guys fell off. Hell you could argue the 2nd best player in the east was on Bron's team in the past 3-4 years.

It's pretty much trash though...the Raptors simply aren't a title contending team.

Just not as trash as before.

The problem is that the Cavs just have no conceivable way to lose a series before the finals...even if hurt (like last year)...

And it hurts the product and the Cavs chances because they aren't ready to play real title contending teams.

What we know is that the Cavs are elite and that the conferences haven't been remotely balanced in terms of overall strength and contenders for nearly 2 decades now overall.

And yes...it can and does impact the championship.

[DMAVS41]

They are an elite team in the same way the Thunder are an elite team. But, not all elite teams make the Finals unless they are the only elite team in their conference, which on paper gives them more credit than they deserve. Cavs are an elite team that would have lost in round 2 if they were out in the West.

We don't know for sure, but yes....the Cavs could easily have lost in the 2nd round in the West...they'd certainly be dogs against both the Warriors and Spurs...and probably against the Thunder as well although that would be more of a coin flip situation.

But they are an elite top 4 team in the league. So this has nothing to do with the Cavs...it has to do with the fact that their road to the finals is so much easier.

Just like it has been in the east overall for a long time now...that isn't in dispute and people arguing that are simply too biased to have a reasonable conversation.

[tpols]

The east isn't trash. There were some pretty good teams. Raptors were one of the best teams in the league, Miami was solid, Hawks weren't bad, Celtics weren't bad, Hornets were decent. Clearly improved from the last few years.

But what it comes down to is there's no player in the east that can even come close to challenging Lebron James. That's the difference.



and thats why all those teams you listed aren't really that good. How can a conference have some of the best teams in the league if they have no true superstars outside Cleveland ?

If bron was out west he'd have to contend with Durant, Westbrook, Kawhi, Paul, Curry etc thats exactly why the conferences are so lopsided.

[Young X]

and thats why all those teams you listed aren't really that good. How can a conference have some of the best teams in the league if they have no true superstars outside Cleveland ?

If bron was out west he'd have to contend with Durant, Westbrook, Kawhi, Paul, Curry etc thats exactly why the conferences are so lopsided.There's no doubt that the conferences are lopsided but this year it isn't as lopsided as you guys are making it seem.


It's pretty much trash though...the Raptors simply aren't a title contending team.

Just not as trash as before.

The problem is that the Cavs just have no conceivable way to lose a series before the finals...even if hurt (like last year)...

And it hurts the product and the Cavs chances because they aren't ready to play real title contending teams.

What we know is that the Cavs are elite and that the conferences haven't been remotely balanced in terms of overall strength and contenders for nearly 2 decades now overall.

And yes...it can and does impact the championship.It can't be trash when there are still multiple good teams. None of the teams I mentioned are trash.

And you talk about being tested before the finals, besides OKC how have the defending western conference champions been tested?

Raptors might not have been contenders but how many teams have really been contenders in the west this year? Warriors, Spurs, Thunder?

Last year? Who besides the Warriors?

[Hey Yo]

It's pretty much trash though...the Raptors simply aren't a title contending team.

Just not as trash as before.

The problem is that the Cavs just have no conceivable way to lose a series before the finals...even if hurt (like last year)...

And it hurts the product and the Cavs chances because they aren't ready to play real title contending teams.

What we know is that the Cavs are elite and that the conferences haven't been remotely balanced in terms of overall strength and contenders for nearly 2 decades now overall.

And yes...it can and does impact the championship.
So then how was Cleveland an OT loss away (game 1) from being up 3-0 in the Finals last year with LeBron playing with mostly postseason virgins?

Who had them even winning a game before and after Kyrie went down, yet they still won 2 in a row and made it a series?

[DoctorP]

agreed!

[DMAVS41]

There's no doubt that the conferences are lopsided but this year it isn't as lopsided as you guys are making it seem.

It can't be trash when there are still multiple good teams. None of the teams I mentioned are trash.

And you talk about being tested before the finals, besides OKC how have the defending western conference champions been tested?

Raptors might not have been contenders but how many teams have really been contenders in the west this year? Warriors, Spurs, Thunder?

Last year? Who besides the Warriors?

When people say trash...we say it because only one team can come out of the conference. If a different team came out...you'd be shocked. All the rest is kind of meaningless. Like I said, it was better this year, but it's still a joke.

There is one contender in the East. That's it...full stop.

What do you mean...besides OKC? They have two of the 7 best players in the league...LOL

Last year? The Warriors weren't tested as it was a down year and odd year. Again, nobody would care if this wasn't the norm. If the East was just down for a year or two...nobody would mention it.

I don't know why I have to make this point time and time again...you bringing up single years means nothing to me...and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone.

This is a problem going on multiple decades now with no sign of changing.

It sucks as a basketball fan...and it sucks simply was someone that likes to see everyone compete fairly.

[DMAVS41]

So then how was Cleveland an OT loss away (game 1) from being up 3-0 in the Finals last year with LeBron playing with mostly postseason virgins?

Who had them even winning a game before and after Kyrie went down, yet they still won 2 in a row and made it a series?

Lebron is great and the Warriors didn't really figure out what to do until game 3...

Like...is this supposed to stump me or something? LOL...

It doesn't change anything I've said...the Cavs could win this series and everything I've said still holds up under scrutiny.

You forget that the Warriors really didn't get tested in the West last year before the finals.

This goes both ways and I'm not a fan of either conference. I just want a fair system. If the West was terrible for 20 years...I'd be arguing with people about it as well.

The system sucks...we don't see the best teams get a fair shake. We don't see the best teams play each other as often as we should...and the East is a ****ing dumpster fire and has been for years.

[NBAGOAT]

When people say trash...we say it because only one team can come out of the conference. If a different team came out...you'd be shocked. All the rest is kind of meaningless. Like I said, it was better this year, but it's still a joke.

There is one contender in the East. That's it...full stop.

What do you mean...besides OKC? They have two of the 7 best players in the league...LOL

Last year? The Warriors weren't tested as it was a down year and odd year. Again, nobody would care if this wasn't the norm. If the East was just down for a year or two...nobody would mention it.

I don't know why I have to make this point time and time again...you bringing up single years means nothing to me...and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone.

This is a problem going on multiple decades now with no sign of changing.

It sucks as a basketball fan...and it sucks simply was someone that likes to see everyone compete fairly.

it depends if you thought the Pacers and Bulls had a legit chance or not. I thought 2008 up t maybe 2012 was decent. Also there's two types of bad. There's the current East where everyone knows the Cavs are coming out and there's early 2000' East(imo worse) where there were a lot of competitive series but you knew none of them really had any chance in the Finals.

[ballinhun8]

Irving
Davis
Bennett
Wiggins
KAT



Even in the last 5 years, the West has gotten the superior talent from the draft.


Philly better score with Simmons and hope Ingram doesn't pan out.

[DMAVS41]

it depends if you thought the Pacers and Bulls had a legit chance or not. I thought 2008 up t maybe 2012 was decent. Also there's two types of bad. There's the current East where everyone knows the Cavs are coming out and there's early 2000' East(imo worse) where there were a lot of competitive series but you knew none of them really had any chance in the Finals.

Definitely not the Pacers...LOL...absolutely not title contenders.

Bulls? Yea...I think they could have given the Mavs a series, but not much of one.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron is great and the Warriors didn't really figure out what to do until game 3...

Like...is this supposed to stump me or something? LOL...

It doesn't change anything I've said...the Cavs could win this series and everything I've said still holds up under scrutiny.

You forget that the Warriors really didn't get tested in the West last year before the finals.

This goes both ways and I'm not a fan of either conference. I just want a fair system. If the West was terrible for 20 years...I'd be arguing with people about it as well.

The system sucks...we don't see the best teams get a fair shake. We don't see the best teams play each other as often as we should...and the East is a ****ing dumpster fire and has been for years.
You said the Cavs not being tested last year hurt their chances in the Finals. I reminded you of what happened in the first 3 games. So basically your theory doesn't work with last years Finals.

So you think your suggestion of using the top 16 teams would be better? 1vs16...2vs15 etc..etc.. would be the better formula? That's what people want to see?

[DMAVS41]

You said the Cavs not being tested last year hurt their chances in the Finals. I reminded you of what happened in the first 3 games. So basically your theory doesn't work with last years Finals.

So you think your suggestion of using the top 16 teams would be better? 1vs16...2vs15 etc..etc.. would be the better formula? That's what people want to see?

Actually it does you clown...it was the Warriors that weren't tested in the West. Go tell David Thorpe he's an idiot...because he literally just said the same thing as me on the Lowe Podcast...but my guess is you don't even know who that is.

The Cavs had to come together and overcome the Love and Kyrie situations in the East...they were more prepared last year imo.

Of course that suggestion would be better...we wouldn't get shit 2nd and 3rd rounds with undeserving teams.

[stalkerforlife]

And why the hell would it take a game against the west to figure that out?

[tpols]

Actually it does you clown...it was the Warriors that weren't tested in the West. Go tell David Thorpe he's an idiot...because he literally just said the same thing as me on the Lowe Podcast...but my guess is you don't even know who that is.

The Cavs had to come together and overcome the Love and Kyrie situations in the East...they were more prepared last year imo.

Of course that suggestion would be better...we wouldn't get shit 2nd and 3rd rounds with undeserving teams.


yup.. spot on man.

it was the cavs who faced adversity last year, and they mentally fed off it .. while the dubs were complacent and untested. That combined with their big style of play is why the Cavs made it so competitive.

This year, it is the dubs who are battle hardened and adversity riddled, and it is the Cavs who have been completely unchallenged, which is making the tides swing the other way completely. This disparity is compounded by the cavs being a worse defensive team, and less imposing physically.

[DMAVS41]

yup.. spot on man.

it was the cavs who faced adversity last year, and they mentally fed off it .. while the dubs were complacent and untested. That combined with their big style of play is why the Cavs made it so competitive.

This year, it is the dubs who are battle hardened and adversity riddled, and it is the Cavs who have been completely unchallenged, which is making the tides swing the other way completely. This disparity is compounded by the cavs being a worse defensive team, and less imposing physically.

Yea...but both teams are better. Overall this Cavs team is much better than last year, but they weren't ready for game 1 because they hand't played a real team in like 2 months.

Also, this Warriors team is simply much better. Klay has fully come into his own...the role players know exactly what to do...and they aren't new to "the moment"

I still think the Cavs can make things interesting in this series because they have a lot to throw at the Warriors...and Curry is clearly a bit tired / worn down.

But like I keep saying...the Cavs winning this series does nothing against the points I've made.

[Hey Yo]

Actually it does you clown...it was the Warriors that weren't tested in the West. Go tell David Thorpe he's an idiot...because he literally just said the same thing as me on the Lowe Podcast...but my guess is you don't even know who that is.

The Cavs had to come together and overcome the Love and Kyrie situations in the East...they were more prepared last year imo.

Of course that suggestion would be better...we wouldn't get shit 2nd and 3rd rounds with undeserving teams.
Here's what you original said:


The problem is that it ends up hurting the Cavs by playing in the East once they reach the finals because they haven't been remotely tested like the Warriors were.

So of course in game 1 they are going to be out of sorts because they are playing real teams.
then I stated.


So then how was Cleveland an OT loss away (game 1) from being up 3-0 in the Finals last year with LeBron playing with mostly postseason virgins?

Who had them even winning a game before and after Kyrie went down, yet they still won 2 in a row and made it a series?

So now I'm a clown by saying that you theory of "Cavs are going to be out of sorts in game 1 cause they weren't playing real teams.

You and David Thorpe aren't wrong considering the Cavs lost game 1 (and Kyrie) in OT last year? Then proceeded to win the next 2 games. Cavs were able to prepare themselves/get use to using their back-up point guard in a 2-3 day span?

Game 1 of this year the Cavs had the lead in the 3rd and were down by 1 with 34 seconds left in the 3rd. They lost by 14.

Did the Cavs look or play great in game 1?....no

Was it because they were now all of a sudden playing a "real team?"......no

[DMAVS41]

Here's what you original said:


then I stated.



So now I'm a clown by saying that you theory of "Cavs are going to be out of sorts in game 1 cause they weren't playing real teams.

You and David Thorpe aren't wrong considering the Cavs lost game 1 (and Kyrie) in OT last year? Then proceeded to win the next 2 games. Cavs were able to prepare themselves/get use to using their back-up point guard in a 2-3 day span?

Game 1 of this year the Cavs had the lead in the 3rd and were down by 1 with 34 seconds left in the 3rd. They lost by 14.

Did the Cavs look or play great in game 1?....no

Was it because they were now all of a sudden playing a "real team?"......no


This isn't complicated;

1. Last year the Cavs were tested in a much different way and were forced to come together...and it was the Warriors that were the team that had to face no adversity at all. You can disagree with my point all you want, but using last year is simply ignorant...because last year makes my point for me. The clear cut better team looked worse early on in the series...and within my argument...that makes perfect sense.

2. Saying something does not mean it's false if said thing doesn't happen every single time. I'm not sure when this started, but it seems younger people think that if something doesn't happen every single time...it makes a point invalid.

3. This speaks to the larger problem here and just in general. People point to specific examples about the East being good or not being trash...etc. When, once again, I must explain that my point is a broad one about nearly 2 decades of trends and observation...I, nor anyone, would care if this was a one or two year thing.

4. It's not a theory...it's a simple observation that a team that isn't tested as much and has extended time off is going to take a game or so to get back ready. Does it happen every time? Of course not...only someone incredibly stupid or a child thinks in these absolute terms.

But if you don't think there is a difference from going from the Thunder to the finals...rather than the Raptors to the finals....stop watching NBA and find something else to do with your time because you are lost.

You are the one making absolute statements.

Was it because they played a real team? You answer no...my answer is yes. I don't think the Cavs are nearly that poor of a defensive team at all. They simply had not faced a team...in nearly 6 weeks...that could exploit pick and roll coverage and switches like the Warriors did. They are going to have to do a lot of little extra things harder/better to compete with this Warriors team. Which I actually think they are capable of doing, but it's hard to generate that stuff in practice or be ready when you are playing non contending East teams.

[imnew09]

The Cavs are an elite team regardless of conference...so this game means nothing for conference strength.

The East is of course trash though...been that way overall for nearly 2 decades....but that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't an elite team in this league...which they very clearly are

The problem is that it ends up hurting the Cavs by playing in the East once they reach the finals because they haven't been remotely tested like the Warriors were.

So of course in game 1 they are going to be out of sorts because they are playing real teams.

I'd like to see what happens in game 2...the Cavs did a lot of good things last night and I kind of feel like they were just a bit off overall.

However, Lebron is going to have to make some shots from range consistently to loosen up the defense and get the role players more involved. If they can continue to single cover him and he can't absolutely dominate...the Cavs are drawing dead.


Stopped reading after first sentence

Lmfaaaao

[PickernRoller]

Gino still embarrassing himself with try-hard posts. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

East has been weak since 2011. Lebron's colluding ass ruined all competition on the East.

[game3524]

it depends if you thought the Pacers and Bulls had a legit chance or not. I thought 2008 up t maybe 2012 was decent. Also there's two types of bad. There's the current East where everyone knows the Cavs are coming out and there's early 2000' East(imo worse) where there were a lot of competitive series but you knew none of them really had any chance in the Finals.

I prefer the early 2000s east.

Yes, the conference was shit, but at least it was loaded with marquee/watchable talent. I can't say the same for the current eastern conference, I mean outside of Cleveland, none of these playoff teams have much star power.

[bobopenguin]

i say we swap spur/clippers/thunder with piston/heat/raptor.

now that will balance it out. :lol

[diamenz]

in comparison to the west? or what the east SHOULD be? yes, trash.

the cavs are the only worthy team of reaching the conference finals in the east, where as there's (i'd say) six teams in the west that are conference final material.

[FKAri]

in comparison to the west? or what the east SHOULD be? yes, trash.

the cavs are the only worthy team of reaching the conference finals in the east, where as there's (i'd say) six teams in the west that are conference final material.
There are only 4 teams in the West that were better in the regular season than the Raptors.

[Young X]

When people say trash...we say it because only one team can come out of the conference. If a different team came out...you'd be shocked. All the rest is kind of meaningless. Like I said, it was better this year, but it's still a joke.

There is one contender in the East. That's it...full stop.

What do you mean...besides OKC? They have two of the 7 best players in the league...LOL

Last year? The Warriors weren't tested as it was a down year and odd year. Again, nobody would care if this wasn't the norm. If the East was just down for a year or two...nobody would mention it.

I don't know why I have to make this point time and time again...you bringing up single years means nothing to me...and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone.

This is a problem going on multiple decades now with no sign of changing.

It sucks as a basketball fan...and it sucks simply was someone that likes to see everyone compete fairly.The bolded is what I have a problem with.

One contending team in a conference doesn't necessarily make it trash.

Last year, the Warriors were the only true contender in the west. But it was far from a weak conference.

Yes the conferences still are imbalanced and I'm with you that they should possibly look into getting rid of them but trash isn't the right word to describe the east this year.

I honestly think this was a down year for teams in general. I think the Spurs and Warriors records might've been slightly inflated but that's another topic.

[clipps]

A thread about the East being terrible? OP sure is full of original, well thought out topics.

[imnew09]

A thread about the East being terrible? OP sure is full of original, well thought out topics.

Oh man you shouldve seen the amount of posters who claim the East is a bloodbath before the Finals started.

[riseagainst]

Oh man you shouldve seen the amount of posters who claim the East is a bloodbath before the Finals started.

All retarded lebron stans. Most of them the same person.

[diamenz]

There are only 4 teams in the West that were better in the regular season than the Raptors.

if the grizzlies and clippers where healthy, the raptors would not be in this conversation man.

[Young X]

I don't know why people think the Clippers are better than the Raptors.

[NBAGOAT]

I don't know why people think the Clippers are better than the Raptors.

Guessing people are thinking of how the Clippers would do with a normal Blake. Without Blake, the Raptors would definitely have a good argument. It hurts that the Raptors also played pretty poorly the 1st 2 rounds too but teams who are new to contending play poorly in the playoffs all the time.

[Young X]

Guessing people are thinking of how the Clippers would do with a normal Blake. Without Blake, the Raptors would definitely have a good argument. It hurts that the Raptors also played pretty poorly the 1st 2 rounds too but teams who are new to contending play poorly in the playoffs all the time.Raptors this year had as good a season as any Clipper team even the ones with Blake.

People just refuse to give them credit because they're the Raptors but they're as good as any team in the league besides the Warriors, Cavs, Spurs and Thunder.

[DMAVS41]

I don't know why people think the Clippers are better than the Raptors.

Because a healthy Clippers team has by far the best player in the series, the 2nd best player, a coach that has won a championship, and an overall more talented roster.

Why do you think the Raptors are better? The dynamic duo of Lowry and Derozan that had the worst scoring efficiency performances I can remember.

You think Derozan's 46% TS on 31% usage is beating any decent team?

The Raptors were garbage the entire playoffs....absolutely garbage. No way they beat a team like the Clippers playing like they did in the playoffs...

I don't think people realize just how pathetic Derozan was overall....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=usg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=30.8&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=0.463&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Take some time and look at that. Derozan is basically the only player we've seen in the modern era have an extended run with such bad shooting and such high usage.

If I add in 19 or more field goal attempts...you get this;

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=usg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=30.8&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=0.463&c3stat=fga_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=19&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

It's literally the worst extended playoff run by a scorer ever.

Holy shit...

[NBAGOAT]

Raptors this year had as good a season as any Clipper team even the ones with Blake.

People just refuse to give them credit because they're the Raptors but they're as good as any team in the league besides the Warriors, Cavs, Spurs and Thunder.

that's true. I would argue then just based on on paper talent which the Clippers have more of even if that isn't everything. Also I say when the Clippers were closer to the top tier contenders in 14 and 15 than the Raptors were this year to any of the top 4 teams. OKC-LAC and HOU-LAC were closer than CLE-TOR.

[Young X]

Because a healthy Clippers team has by far the best player in the series, the 2nd best player, a coach that has won a championship, and an overall more talented roster.

Why do you think the Raptors are better? The dynamic duo of Lowry and Derozan that had the worst scoring efficiency performances I can remember.

You think Derozan's 46% TS on 31% usage is beating any decent team?

The Raptors were garbage the entire playoffs....absolutely garbage. No way they beat a team like the Clippers playing like they did in the playoffs...

I don't think people realize just how pathetic Derozan was overall....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=usg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=30.8&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=0.463&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=wsWell first of all the Clippers were literally never once healthy this year.

They had one star player, Paul and he wasn't "far better" than Lowry this year.

Raptors have much better bench players like Joseph, Biyombo, coming off the bench while the Clippers' bench is garbage. That makes up for the Clippers having better "talent" in their staring lineup.

If they were so bad in the playoffs, how did they manage to beat the Heat who were a decent team and take 2 games from the Cavs?


that's true. I would argue then just based on on paper talent which the Clippers have more of even if that isn't everything. Also I say when the Clippers were closer to the top tier contenders in 14 and 15 than the Raptors were this year to any of the top 4 teams. OKC-LAC and HOU-LAC were closer than CLE-TOR.They're in the same group as teams. 55+ wins but no one seriously has either team threatening to win a championship.

[tpols]

Because a healthy Clippers team has by far the best player in the series, the 2nd best player, a coach that has won a championship, and an overall more talented roster.

Why do you think the Raptors are better? The dynamic duo of Lowry and Derozan that had the worst scoring efficiency performances I can remember.

You think Derozan's 46% TS on 31% usage is beating any decent team?

The Raptors were garbage the entire playoffs....absolutely garbage. No way they beat a team like the Clippers playing like they did in the playoffs...

I don't think people realize just how pathetic Derozan was overall....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=usg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=30.8&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=0.463&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Take some time and look at that. Derozan is basically the only player we've seen in the modern era have an extended run with such bad shooting and such high usage.

If I add in 19 or more field goal attempts...you get this;

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=usg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=30.8&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=lt&c2val=0.463&c3stat=fga_per_g&c3comp=gt&c3val=19&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

It's literally the worst extended playoff run by a scorer ever.

Holy shit...

The Raptors were worse than Portland, and Clippers were spanking the trailblazers before Paul and Griffin's body's gave out at once. Chris Paul was having a field day, I can only imagine what hed do against the trash bros.

[DMAVS41]

Well first of all the Clippers were literally never once healthy this year.

They had one star player, Paul and he wasn't "far better" than Lowry this year.

Raptors have much better bench players like Joseph, Biyombo, coming off the bench while the Clippers' bench is garbage. That makes up for the Clippers having better "talent" in their staring lineup.

If they were so bad in the playoffs, how did they manage to beat the Heat who were a decent team and take 2 games from the Cavs?

Seems like a bad argument. Nobody is claiming, at least I'm not, that an injured Clippers team was better. I'm arguing that a healthy Clippers team would be better. The other is a pointless argument.

How did they beat the Heat and win 2 games from the Cavs...like really? That is the bar for this team.

You honestly don't think a healthy Clippers team wouldn't do that? No way you actually believe that.

And again, do we need to really remind you about the thread? The East is trash. I'm not impressed by any team other than the Cavs...and they certainly don't look impressive playing a real team right now.

Again...you didn't respond to the Derozan stuff.

He had the worst scoring efficiency extended playoff run in the modern era by a huge margin.

If that isn't evidence against the East I don't know what is. And the fact that Lowry was also abysmal all playoffs as well doesn't help you either.

You shouldn't be able to play that bad and come within 2 games of the finals. Only is a shit conference is that possible.

[DMAVS41]

The Raptors were worse than Portland, and Clippers were spanking the trailblazers before Paul and Griffin's body's gave out at once. Chris Paul was having a field day, I can only imagine what hed do against the trash bros.

Did you see the derozan stuff...he had, by far, the worst scoring efficiency extended playoff run in the modern era. Not one other player scoring like he did played more than 5 games.

Think about that....he made it to 20 games.

And when you add in how bad Lowry was....it is beyond clear that it was a trash conference.

But people are stupid and won't respond to this.

[NBAGOAT]

Did you see the derozan stuff...he had, by far, the worst scoring efficiency extended playoff run in the modern era. Not one other player scoring like he did played more than 5 games.

Think about that....he made it to 20 games.

And when you add in how bad Lowry was....it is beyond clear that it was a trash conference.

But people are stupid and won't respond to this.

Lowry wasn't all bad. He was just ridiculously inconsistent and his bad games were really bad and even wore than Derozan's. He also had 5 35+point games these playoffs however that were all efficient too which is pretty ridiculous when you think abut it when the Raptors played 20 games these playoffs. Definitely won a few games on his own. People also forget that a lot of teams underachieve in the playoffs their 1st year of contending because of the lack of experience.


They're in the same group as teams. 55+ wins but no one seriously has either team threatening to win a championship.

That's a good point too but I think the Clippers still had some people predicting they make the Finals the last 2 years. Not a lot but they were out there.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Young X on his typical CP3 damage-control bullshit.

A healthy Clipper team would 100% WITHOUT QUESTION beat the Craptors, who Cleveland literally played down to (everyone saw what happened in game 6).

This "why did they take Cleveland to 6 games tho" garbage would be like me asking why the Lakers only took Boston to 6 games in 2008...yet Atlanta took them to 7 just a few rounds before.

....Does anybody think the Hawks were better than LA in 2008? Lame ass arguments everywhere man. :oldlol:

[tpols]

Did you see the derozan stuff...he had, by far, the worst scoring efficiency extended playoff run in the modern era. Not one other player scoring like he did played more than 5 games.

Think about that....he made it to 20 games.

And when you add in how bad Lowry was....it is beyond clear that it was a trash conference.

But people are stupid and won't respond to this.


yes, derozan was god awful for 90% of the playoffs.. him and lowry both would show up like every third game or so and have good games, and they'd follow it with pure garbage for bulk of time in between.

The Cavs couldve went 12-0 through the East if they didnt let up completely in those two toronto games.. a sort of fake "hey look we faced adversity! we did!" let down from cleveland to make their run not seem so unchallenged. Well, it was.

[Young X]

Seems like a bad argument. Nobody is claiming, at least I'm not, that an injured Clippers team was better. I'm arguing that a healthy Clippers team would be better. The other is a pointless argument.

How did they beat the Heat and win 2 games from the Cavs...like really? That is the bar for this team.

You honestly don't think a healthy Clippers team would do that? No way you actually believe that.

And again, do we need to really remind you about the thread? The East is trash. I'm not impressed by any team other than the Cavs...and they certainly don't look impressive playing a real team right now.

Again...you didn't respond to the Derozan stuff.

He had the worst scoring efficiency extended playoff run in the modern era by a huge margin.

If that isn't evidence against the East I don't know what is. And the fact that Lowry was also abysmal all playoffs as well doesn't help you either.

You shouldn't be able to play that bad and come within 2 games of the finals. Only is a shit conference is that possible.But that's the thing, a healthy Clipper team never existed. They were injured the entire season. The Raptors were better than them the entire time.

You said the Raptors were terrible in the playoffs, I don't see how they could've beaten a decent Miami team and taken 2 games from the Cavs by playing terrible. At some point you gotta give them some credit.

You're getting too caught up in their stars' struggles. Yes, Lowry and DeRozan struggled but they had other guys step up. They're not as reliant on star power as other teams.

You keep thinking I'm opposing what your saying about balancing the conferences. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. But you're overexaggerating the difference between the conferences this year.

[DMAVS41]

Lowry wasn't all bad. He was just ridiculously inconsistent and his bad games were really bad and even wore than Derozan's. He also had 5 35+point games these playoffs however that were all efficient too which is pretty ridiculous when you think abut it when the Raptors played 20 games these playoffs. Definitely won a few games on his own. People also forget that a lot of teams underachieve in the playoffs their 1st year of contending because of the lack of experience.



That's a good point too but I think the Clippers still had some people predicting they make the Finals the last 2 years. Not a lot but they were out there.


We aren't grading on a curve though. You don't get extra points in games for being in your first playoff run. So this point means absolutely nothing.

Lowry, overall, was terrible...being ridiculously inconsistent is a death sentence in the playoffs against real teams. You simply can't afford to do that.

Together...Lowry/Derozan basically combined for a 60% usage and a 48% TS mark. That has to be, by far, the worst scoring combo in modern NBA history to ever make it to 20 games in the playoffs.

I bet it's not even remotely close to be honest.

The only way that is possible is to play in a weak as **** conference. Simple as that.

[DMAVS41]

But that's the thing, a healthy Clipper team never existed. They were injured the entire season. The Raptors were better than them the entire time.

You said the Raptors were terrible in the playoffs, I don't see how they could've beaten a decent Miami team and taken 2 games from the Cavs by playing terrible. At some point you gotta give them some credit.

You're getting too caught up in their stars' struggles. Yes, Lowry and DeRozan struggled but they had other guys step up. They're not as reliant on star power as other teams.

You keep thinking I'm opposing what your saying about balancing the conferences. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. But you're overexaggerating the difference between the conferences this year.


I'll ask again...who is arguing that a Clippers team without Paul is better? You are arguing with a ghost here. Still don't see the point at all as nobody is claiming otherwise.

I'm not getting caught up....they were terrible and happened to play bad to mediocre teams.

You are the one getting caught up in them barely beating a Heat team that is absolutely nothing of note at all.

Also, the rest of the team did nothing of note.

Carroll and Patterson shot horribly from range. Shooting something like 31% on 8 attempts game. Val and Bismack were nice...I'll give you that, but not needle moving against legit teams. You just aren't winning virtually any series against legit teams with other superstars when your two best players play that poorly on such high usage.

[Young X]

Young X on his typical CP3 damage-control bullshit.

A healthy Clipper team would 100% WITHOUT QUESTION beat the Craptors, who Cleveland literally played down to (everyone saw what happened in game 6).

This "why did they take Cleveland to 6 games tho" garbage would be like me asking why the Lakers only took Boston to 6 games in 2008...yet Atlanta took them to 7 just a few rounds before.

....Does anybody think the Hawks were better than LA in 2008? Lame ass arguments everywhere man. :oldlol:"damage control"? What?

I'm asking how a 56 win/2nd seeded team that gets to the conference finals and takes 2 games from the #1 seed not that good? How are they so much worse than the Clippers when they just had a season better than any season LAC ever had?


I'll ask again...who is arguing that a Clippers team without Paul is better? You are arguing with a ghost here. Still don't see the point at all as nobody is claiming otherwise.

I'm not getting caught up....they were terrible and happened to play bad to mediocre teams.

You are the one getting caught up in them barely beating a Heat team that is absolutely nothing of note at all.The Clippers didn't just suddenly get injured in the playoffs you know that right?

Griffin got injured in December, missed like 50 games and basically was useless from that point on. We literally never got to see them healthy this year.

What I'm saying is, the Clipper team we saw all season was not better than the Raptors. And they weren't.

And once again I agree with you that they should look into doing something about the playoff format.

It's just the terms you're using. No the Raptors were not terrible, and no the east was not trash. Not as good as the west yes, but not trash.

[DMAVS41]

"damage control"? What?

I'm asking how a 56 win/2nd seeded team that gets to the conference finals and takes 2 games from the #1 seed not that good? How are they so much worse than the Clippers when they just had a season better than any season LAC ever had?

The Clippers didn't just suddenly get injured in the playoffs you know that right?

Griffin got injured in December, missed like 50 games and basically was useless from that point on. We literally never got to see them healthy this year.

What I'm saying is, the Clipper team we saw all season was not better than the Raptors. And they weren't.

And once again I agree with you that they should look into doing something about the playoff format.

It's just the terms you're using. No the Raptors were not terrible, and no the east was not trash. Not as good as the west yes, but not trash.

The Clippers didn't need Griffin to beat the Raptors in a series though. They'd have won without him...as long as Paul was right they win that series.

I never said the Raptors were terrible. I said they played terrible.

And, yes, the East was absolute trash yet again in the terms we are talking about now. You should not be able to play as poorly as the Raptors and be 2 games away from the finals.

You realize that there is no way the Raptors even get out of the first round in the West...right?

I'll try this again...in round 1...Lowry and Derozan averaged a 53% usage rate combined and averaged 41% TS...

They aren't even beating the Mavericks...they aren't beating the Blazers...the only team they are beating in the West playing like that is a destroyed Grizzlies team.

So you going on and on about beating the Heat....it literally means nothing to me...and it shouldn't matter to anyone. It's nothing of note at all....like nothing.

The Blazers were infinitely more impressive than the Raptors were.

[Young X]

The Clippers didn't need Griffin to beat the Raptors in a series though. They'd have won without him...as long as Paul was right they win that series.

I never said the Raptors were terrible. I said they played terrible.

And, yes, the East was absolute trash yet again in the terms we are talking about now. You should not be able to play as poorly as the Raptors and be 2 games away from the finals.

You realize that there is no way the Raptors even get out of the first round in the West...right?

I'll try this again...in round 1...Lowry and Derozan averaged a 53% usage rate combined and averaged 41% TS...

They aren't even beating the Mavericks...they aren't beating the Blazers...the only team they are beating in the West playing like that is a destroyed Grizzlies team.

So you going on and on about beating the Heat....it literally means nothing to me...and it shouldn't matter to anyone. It's nothing of note at all....like nothing.

The Blazers were infinitely more impressive than the Raptors were.The Blazers? Really? So there's no way the Raptors could've beaten the Blazers? Definitely disagree with you there.

Me bringing up them beating the Heat and taking 2 games from Cleveland isn't to say they did something super impressive but it's a response to something like that.

56 wins, 2nd seed, conference finals and there's no way they could've gotten past Portland? I'm not seeing it.

[NBAGOAT]

yes, derozan was god awful for 90% of the playoffs.. him and lowry both would show up like every third game or so and have good games, and they'd follow it with pure garbage for bulk of time in between.

The Cavs couldve went 12-0 through the East if they didnt let up completely in those two toronto games.. a sort of fake "hey look we faced adversity! we did!" let down from cleveland to make their run not seem so unchallenged. Well, it was.

that is definitely true. I know you're one of the guys who thinks Portland was better than any non Cavs team out East and I argue Golden Sate played down to them too(and that's without Curry). Their defensive intensity wasn't close to what it was vs OKC and Cle..

[imnew09]

The Blazers? Really? So there's no way the Raptors could've beaten the Blazers? Definitely disagree with you there.

Me bringing up them beating the Heat and taking 2 games from Cleveland isn't to say they did something super impressive but it's a response to something like that.

56 wins, 2nd seed, conference finals and there's no way they could've gotten past Portland? I'm not seeing it.


Are you really bragging about Raptors beat Miami lol... And the 2 freebies they got from the Cavs to sell more tickets


Miami roster against the Raptors was from the fken D League level.... I bet you couldnt name those players without seeing their Jersey man

[Young X]

Are you really bragging about Raptors beat Miami lol... And the 2 freebies they got from the Cavs to sell more tickets


Miami roster against the Raptors was from the fken D League level.... I bet you couldnt name those players without seeing their Jersey manNot bragging, but I don't see how a team can do that playing terribly.

[NBAGOAT]

Are you really bragging about Raptors beat Miami lol... And the 2 freebies they got from the Cavs to sell more tickets


Miami roster against the Raptors was from the fken D League level.... I bet you couldnt name those players without seeing their Jersey man

:facepalm the main thing Miami has going for them is name value since most of their guys are old. You're telling me you don't know Wade, Whiteside, Dragic, Joe Johnson, Deng, and amare. They're not the ****ing celtics or hornets.

[imnew09]

:facepalm the main thing Miami has going for them is name value since most of their guys are old. You're telling me you don't know Wade, Whiteside, Dragic, Joe Johnson, Deng, and amare. They're not the ****ing celtics or hornets.


Did you watch game 6 and 7?

Prolly not... Because Miami was playing some of the players who never logged a minute in the playoff

[dontgetchoked]

Not bragging, but I don't see how a team can do that playing terribly.
Did you watch that series? Some of the worst basketball I have seen, and we had what 7 games of that? pathetic

[NBAGOAT]

We aren't grading on a curve though. You don't get extra points in games for being in your first playoff run. So this point means absolutely nothing.

Lowry, overall, was terrible...being ridiculously inconsistent is a death sentence in the playoffs against real teams. You simply can't afford to do that.

Together...Lowry/Derozan basically combined for a 60% usage and a 48% TS mark. That has to be, by far, the worst scoring combo in modern NBA history to ever make it to 20 games in the playoffs.

I bet it's not even remotely close to be honest.

The only way that is possible is to play in a weak as **** conference. Simple as that.

the point was more about how Toronto played in the playoffs wasn't reflective of their true ability. They're in mind definitely better than the Blazers who are comparable to the Pistons. Another small point is having highs and lows is actually better vs a great team. If Lowry put up his normal statline of like 20 points 56 ts% vs a team like gsw or okc, there's almost no chance they win. The only way they have a chance is if he put up one of those 35 point 70ts% games like he did a few times in the playoffs. The lows would mean even bigger blowouts in losses but that doesn't really matter.

[NBAGOAT]

Did you watch game 6 and 7?

Prolly not... Because Miami was playing some of the players who never logged a minute in the playoff

yes ik they played their rookies a lot(who actually all contributed for them this year), The only guy I listed who was injured was Whiteside. Anyway your post made it seem like you didn't know most of the guys on the court when that was almost never true with Wade, Dragic, Deng, and JJ.

[imnew09]

yes ik they played their rookies a lot(who actually all contributed for them this year), The only guy I listed who was injured was Whiteside. Anyway your post made it seem like you didn't know most of the guys on the court when that was almost never true with Wade, Dragic, Deng, and JJ.


Yea JJ, Deng, Dragic are all big names but please list their stats.

Trash.

[NBAGOAT]

Yea JJ, Deng, Dragic are all big names but please list their stats.

Trash.

that's not the point. I was pointing out that you called the Heat a bunch of no names. Also JJ and Deng were bad but Dragic's stats were decent(19/5/3) and played well some games.

[DMAVS41]

The Blazers? Really? So there's no way the Raptors could've beaten the Blazers? Definitely disagree with you there.

Me bringing up them beating the Heat and taking 2 games from Cleveland isn't to say they did something super impressive but it's a response to something like that.

56 wins, 2nd seed, conference finals and there's no way they could've gotten past Portland? I'm not seeing it.

It's getting a tad tiresome with you adding things to every post.

Did I say "there is no way"??? Of course I didn't say that.

I said they aren't beating them with the way they were playing. This, as shouldn't need to be explained, is my opinion...not a fact....and hardly an absolute statement.

Given how they played in the playoffs...no, I don't see how they are beating Portland.

Again...this needs to sink in...no player has ever played worse offensively as a scorer in an extended playoff run than Derozan for a main threat...nobody even comes close.

That would be bad enough, but his running mate was almost as bad...

Please think about this...you should not be able to play the worst basketball of your career and still be 2 games away from the finals. The only reason that happened was because it's a trash conference.

And when we say trash conference...we are talking in terms of what kind of teams that can actually contend and beat good teams. I'm not talking abut whether or not some teams like the Celtics and Hornets have improved.

[DMAVS41]

the point was more about how Toronto played in the playoffs wasn't reflective of their true ability. They're in mind definitely better than the Blazers who are comparable to the Pistons. Another small point is having highs and lows is actually better vs a great team. If Lowry put up his normal statline of like 20 points 56 ts% vs a team like gsw or okc, there's almost no chance they win. The only way they have a chance is if he put up one of those 35 point 70ts% games like he did a few times in the playoffs. The lows would mean even bigger blowouts in losses but that doesn't really matter.

Of course they were better in the regular season...that isn't in dispute.

They were better than the Blazers in the regular season, but how a team plays in the playoffs...which is what the whole regular season is about...getting the best seed within reason while also developing the players/team to compete in the most important games...

The Raptors were awful

[tpols]

the raptors are always horrible in the playoffs .. this isnt some new, green team that just broke out and had some first playoffs jitters. They have averaged over 50 wins a season for 3 years straight.. and they lost with HCA in BOTH the previous two years including being swept off the floor by the wizards last year. They were one bad Q of play from being knocked out by an 8 seed this year, and in general are just horrible playoff chokers. and they somehow were the top contender out east besides cavs.. it is what it is.

[NBAGOAT]

Of course they were better in the regular season...that isn't in dispute.

They were better than the Blazers in the regular season, but how a team plays in the playoffs...which is what the whole regular season is about...getting the best seed within reason while also developing the players/team to compete in the most important games...

The Raptors were awful

I'm guessing you're arguing you would take the Blazers over the Raptors overall based off how they played vs the Warriors but I argue the Warriors did what the Cavs did in the conference finals by not having their foot on the pedal and that was without Curry for 3 games. Let's not forget, the Blazers had trouble with the Deandre, Reddick, Jamal Clippers. I'm almost sure Lowry/Derozan wouldn't play that poorly if they were guarded by Lillard/CJ and the Raptors are better everywhere else. I still take the Raptors over the Blazers even with how bad they played in the playoffs.

[Young X]

It's getting a tad tiresome with you adding things to every post.

Did I say "there is no way"??? Of course I didn't say that.

I said they aren't beating them with the way they were playing. This, as shouldn't need to be explained, is my opinion...not a fact....and hardly an absolute statement.

Given how they played in the playoffs...no, I don't see how they are beating Portland.

Again...this needs to sink in...no player has ever played worse offensively as a scorer in an extended playoff run than Derozan for a main threat...nobody even comes close.

That would be bad enough, but his running mate was almost as bad...

Please think about this...you should not be able to play the worst basketball of your career and still be 2 games away from the finals. The only reason that happened was because it's a trash conference.

And when we say trash conference...we are talking in terms of what kind of teams that can actually contend and beat good teams. I'm not talking abut whether or not some teams like the Celtics and Hornets have improved.I didn't add anything bruh.

You said there was "no way" the Raptors would get past the first round in the west. Then you named some teams they wouldn't beat. That's literally what you had in your post I didn't add anything.

So many times me and you seem to argue and it's just a matter of the use of certain terms.

In my opinion just because there is only one team in a conference that can truly contend doesn't mean it's trash. I used the west last year as an example.

Derozan struggling like that and still getting to within 2 game of the finals shows that the conferences still are unbalanced and that the league should possibly look into changing the playoff format. But it doesn't mean the entire conference is trash, that can't be the case when there are still multiple decent, competitive teams fighting.

[MJistheGOAT]

Is this even a discussion???
Only a delusional Lebald fan would call the East other than trash out of Cavs.
Toronto, Miami and Atlanta?? LOOOL that's as bad as initial 2000s East.

[DMAVS41]

I didn't add anything bruh.

You said there was "no way" the Raptors would get past the first round in the west. Then you named some teams they wouldn't beat. That's literally what you had in your post I didn't add anything.

So many times me and you seem to argue and it's just a matter of the use of certain terms.

In my opinion just because there is only one team in a conference that can truly contend doesn't mean it's trash. I used the west last year as an example.

Derozan struggling like that and still getting to within 2 game of the finals shows that the conferences still are unbalanced and that the league should possibly look into changing the playoff format. But it doesn't mean the entire conference is trash, that can't be the case when there are still multiple decent, competitive teams fighting.


I'll try to explain this again. When we say "trash"..we aren't talking about some average teams that have improved.

We are talking about whether or not it is conceivable for more than 1 team to reach the finals.

If it is basically impossible for any team other than 1 team to make the finals in a conference...and that one team is a good, but hardly all time elite cavs team....then the conference is a joke

This really isn't even opinion...it's objective fact. What else do you call a contest that can only have 1 winner? It's a joke...is it not?

When I said that about Raptors...I'm talking about how they played. Which you seem to continue to ignore. The worst shooting combo of 2 players in NBA history is not beating certain teams in a 7 game series.

Now, if you want to make the argument that they wouldn't play that poorly against Some West...fine, but that is a different point.

I can only go off what I saw...and what I saw was a pathetic display of basketball virtually all playoffs by the Raptors...yet they somehow still got to 2 games from the finals.

So what am I supposed to conclude about the teams that couldn't beat them with the Raptors playing terribly and their 2 main offensive players playing the worst in NBA history?

I'd like an answer to this...did you look at what I posted? Derozan had the worst run basically ever out of a high usage player. You think that is good? You think that is good enough to beat real teams?

[DMAVS41]

I'm guessing you're arguing you would take the Blazers over the Raptors overall based off how they played vs the Warriors but I argue the Warriors did what the Cavs did in the conference finals by not having their foot on the pedal and that was without Curry for 3 games. Let's not forget, the Blazers had trouble with the Deandre, Reddick, Jamal Clippers. I'm almost sure Lowry/Derozan wouldn't play that poorly if they were guarded by Lillard/CJ and the Raptors are better everywhere else. I still take the Raptors over the Blazers even with how bad they played in the playoffs.

The Raptors definitely could not play that poorly and still beat the Blazers. The Blazers improved a lot throughout the year. I feel like everyone here is pretty guilty of thinking teams don't evolve and grow throughout a year.

This is especially true with a team like the Blazers that was new and incorporating new players and a new team.

Of course if the Raptors played a lot better...they'd have a much better chance...I'm not refuting that.

But Lowry was simply in a terrible slump and he clearly lost confidence and he could have played against air some of those games and still sucked.

Derozan? The game he plays in and of itself is going to be shit in the playoffs. Harder to get easy baskets. Other teams are locked in. Can't shoot from range. Relies on difficult mid range shots...teams don't make as many defensive mistakes...less in transition...etc.

Derozan's game is just always going to be pretty damn inefficient. He was terrible last year in the playoffs and he was terrible this year in the playoffs.

I'm not just assuming he somehow plays well by playing a different team.

Like tpols said...these guys were awful last year as well when they got swept by the Wizards. I know Lowry was't right, but back to back 46% TS years in the playoffs for Derozan should not be overlooked. It's just hard to beat good teams if you are doing that on 30% usage....

Again, there is a reason why it was the worst extended run any offensive player main stay has ever had scoring wise. This just can't be shrugged off....it was all time bad.

[Young X]

I'd like an answer to this...did you look at what I posted? Derozan had the worst run basically ever out of a high usage player. You think that is good? You think that is good enough to beat real teams?Of course it's not good enough. They would've easily lost to the Warriors, Thunder or Spurs. And that does show the difference in conference strength that they were able to get to within 2 games of the finals.

But they're good enough to beat anybody else. You're underrating them if you don't think they could.

[DMAVS41]

Of course it's not good enough. They would've easily lost to the Warriors, Thunder or Spurs. And that does show the difference in conference strength that they were able to get to within 2 games of the finals.

But they're good enough to beat anybody else. You're underrating them if you don't think they could.

They definitely could if they played at their regular season clip.

However, I see no evidence that they would. They badly struggled against average/mediocre teams....and Derozan's game is not well suited for the playoffs.

Why would I think he'd play well against West teams when he's had terrible series after terrible series?

He was horrid against the Wizards in 15
He was horrid against the Pacers
He was horrid against the Heat

He was alright against the Cavs, but that series was honestly just kind of a joke in my opinion. The Cavs clearly didn't respect them at all.

I'm just not seeing much out of team or Derozan that makes me think they'd just all of a sudden start playing better in the playoffs.

[Young X]

They definitely could if they played at their regular season clip.

However, I see no evidence that they would. They badly struggled against average/mediocre teams....and Derozan's game is not well suited for the playoffs.

Why would I think he'd play well against West teams when he's had terrible series after terrible series?

He was horrid against the Wizards in 15
He was horrid against the Pacers
He was horrid against the Heat

He was alright against the Cavs, but that series was honestly just kind of a joke in my opinion. The Cavs clearly didn't respect them at all.

I'm just not seeing much out of team or Derozan that makes me think they'd just all of a sudden start playing better in the playoffs.I don't think you should just throw out the regular season like that. Both the regular season and postseason should be taken into account when evaluating how good a team is.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think you should just throw out the regular season like that. Both the regular season and postseason should be taken into account when evaluating how good a team is.

It's hard to ignore watching a team that has played well below their regular season level for the playoffs two years in a row.

And, most importantly, one of the players in question happens to have a game that just by itself is going to struggle against good teams in the playoffs...and probably just most teams in the playoffs.

I'm a big playoffs guy as you know. It's just too easy for players like Derozan to fool everyone by playing well against teams not locked in during the regular season. Seen it way too many times in my life watching the NBA.

Until Derozan does otherwise...I'm lumping him in that group. And he's such a big part of the team...I don't think they can overcome that against most good playoff teams.

[yeaaaman]

It's hard to ignore watching a team that has played well below their regular season level for the playoffs two years in a row.

And, most importantly, one of the players in question happens to have a game that just by itself is going to struggle against good teams in the playoffs...and probably just most teams in the playoffs.

I'm a big playoffs guy as you know. It's just too easy for players like Derozan to fool everyone by playing well against teams not locked in during the regular season. Seen it way too many times in my life watching the NBA.

Until Derozan does otherwise...I'm lumping him in that group. And he's such a big part of the team...I don't think they can overcome that against most good playoff teams.

Is this year's Portland team a "good team" that someone would struggle against in the Playoffs? I dunno, they took two from Cleveland who just pounded the Warriors tonight, while playing as ass as you say they did.

I don't know what the point is, that Portland would hypothetically beat Toronto if they were to meet in the playoffs based on, them beating a dismantled Clippers team? Sure, if that makes people feel better than fine. I don't see that as some sort fact but hey, maybe Portland is a lot better than I'm giving them credit for.

[DMAVS41]

Is this year's Portland team a "good team" that someone would struggle against in the Playoffs? I dunno, they took two from Cleveland who just pounded the Warriors tonight, while playing as ass as you say they did.

I don't know what the point is, that Portland would hypothetically beat Toronto if they were to meet in the playoffs based on, them beating a dismantled Clippers team? Sure, if that makes people feel better than fine. I don't see that as some sort fact but hey, maybe Portland is a lot better than I'm giving them credit for.

No, the point is that you can't prop up a team for making the conference finals like the Raptors are in this thread.

They played far below their regular season level overall in the playoffs (for the 2nd straight year mind you) and it seems like everyone just wants to ignore how historically bad Kyrie and Derozan were as well.

My point about Portland was that I don't think the Raptors would even beat them in a series playing as poorly as they did in rounds 1 and 2. So using the regular season as an indicator of this teams strength seems misguided..just like it is for a team like the Blazers that were significantly better by the end of the year.

[Young X]

^ I wasn't propping the Raptors up for making the conference finals but let's not act like they were terrible. At some point you have to give them credit for having guys step up.

[DMAVS41]

^ I wasn't propping the Raptors up for making the conference finals but let's not act like they were terrible. At some point you have to give them credit for having guys step up.

We just see it differently. I think it had more to do with the competition than stepping up.

I think if they play a team as good as the 15 Wizards...they go home in round 1 again...maybe they get it to 6 this year.

[yeaaaman]

No, the point is that you can't prop up a team for making the conference finals like the Raptors are in this thread.

They played far below their regular season level overall in the playoffs (for the 2nd straight year mind you) and it seems like everyone just wants to ignore how historically bad Kyrie and Derozan were as well.

My point about Portland was that I don't think the Raptors would even beat them in a series playing as poorly as they did in rounds 1 and 2. So using the regular season as an indicator of this teams strength seems misguided..just like it is for a team like the Blazers that were significantly better by the end of the year.

The Blazers were significantly better at the end of the...regular season, in which the Raptors were what the 3rd best team post all-star break after SA and GSW. So really it still doesn't say that much.

I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure what the Raptors are being made out to be. From what I did see I jumped in on Portland apparently being better than them. Is there a guarantee that Portland would beat IND? Miami? Because Toronto DID, that's really what I'm looking at, especially with Lowry and Derozan having the shooting struggles they did.

I'm not sure how much they're being propped up but I dunno, they handled the teams in front of them and played CLE better than anyone in the East. And I'm not sure I'd put POR as the 2nd best team in the east. The Raptors are not perfect but I'd venture to say that Portland is also far from it. Everything is hypotheticals, I just don't see the main indicators of POR being better than TOR. The west better than the East? Sure but I think that comparison is a bit of a stretch. Just my opinion.

[imnew09]

Man, GSW about to finish these Weak East finalist in 5. :facepalm Even the Rockets took GSW to 5 games

[DMAVS41]

Yes we can. It's a trash conference and their champion hasn't been battle tested enough to challenge a real conference's champion....as evidenced by tonight.

Cavs just pissed their pants when the game was close in the 4th qtr...Lebron and his boys only know how to front run.

Can't really blame though...they haven't played a real team in 6 weeks before this.

[Dray n Klay]

3 out of the last 5 champions came from the East

[LakersDaBEst]

OP has been taking so many Ls lately :roll:

[red1]

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[FLDFSU]

Yes we can. It's a trash conference and their champion hasn't been battle tested enough to challenge a real conference's champion....as evidenced by tonight.

Cavs just pissed their pants when the game was close in the 4th qtr...Lebron and his boys only know how to front run.

Can't really blame though...they haven't played a real team in 6 weeks before this.

Jesus this is just pathetic.

[DMAVS41]

Jesus this is just pathetic.

What?

It's spot on...the Cavs struggled to match the Warriors intensity the first 4 games of the series.

Why?

Because they had not been remotely tested for 6 weeks prior to the finals.

The way the finals played it proves my point in that post.

[SexSymbol]

East is still trash with one above average team in Cleveland and everybody else average or pure trash.

[Xoush]

The East is still trash, it's not like the entire Eastern Conference beat the Warriors, just one team did. Does not change the overall picture, and does not change the cakewalk to the Finals.

[DMAVS41]

The Cavs are an elite team regardless of conference...so this game means nothing for conference strength.

The East is of course trash though...been that way overall for nearly 2 decades....but that doesn't mean the Cavs aren't an elite team in this league...which they very clearly are

The problem is that it ends up hurting the Cavs by playing in the East once they reach the finals because they haven't been remotely tested like the Warriors were.

So of course in game 1 they are going to be out of sorts because they are playing real teams.

I'd like to see what happens in game 2...the Cavs did a lot of good things last night and I kind of feel like they were just a bit off overall.

However, Lebron is going to have to make some shots from range consistently to loosen up the defense and get the role players more involved. If they can continue to single cover him and he can't absolutely dominate...the Cavs are drawing dead.

FLDFSU...

Tell me what is off with this....:no:

[Quickening]

The east has won 3 of the last 5 finals :cheers:

[inclinerator]

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[Quickening]

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[InsanityKills]

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