Is Jordan the most obvious GOAT in all of the major sports?

[stalkerforlife]

Football - Who's the GOAT, Rice or Brady? Jim Brown? No clue.

Baseball - Ruth? Mays? Williams? Mantle? Bonds? No clue.

Hockey - I don't know much about hockey, but I think the consensus is Wayne Gretzky.

Soccer - No clue.

Basketball - Jordan, and there isn't much of a debate unless someone has an agenda.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt has all the records, Russell has all the rings - why is Jordan the obvious GOAT again?

[Boogaboog]

Yes. Hockey has the Gretzky/Lemieux problem. Federer would be absolute GOAT in tennis if he wasn't such a pigeon against Nadal. Tiger went off the rails before he could pass Nicklaus in golf.

[1987_Lakers]

Kareem deserves a mention, the guy is the all-time leading scorer, 6 time NBA MVP, & 5x NBA Champion.

[kamil]

Football - Who's the GOAT, Rice or Brady? Jim Brown? No clue.

Baseball - Ruth? Mays? Williams? Mantle? Bonds? No clue.

Hockey - I don't know much about hockey, but I think the consensus is Wayne Gretzky.

Soccer - No clue.

Basketball - Jordan, and there isn't much of a debate unless someone has an agenda.

Gretzky for hockey, Pele for football (real football, nobody gives a fcuk about handegg).

[MP.Trey]

Gretzky is about as unanimous as it gets. But Jordan's close.

[kamil]

Wilt has all the records, Russell has all the rings - why is Jordan the obvious GOAT again?

Because his competition was this:

http://cdn.ipernity.com/112/54/67/6105467.88522dc7.640.jpg

[kamil]

http://newsroom.mohegansun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/BillRussell52.jpg

Could you post that picture again in high resolution? Thanks.

[bdreason]

Gretzky.

[Done_And_Done]

Jordan for sure.

Gretzky would follow in second, though many feel that Lemieux was the better of the but was hobbled by injuries. With that said, the Great One has numerous records that no modern player will ever sniff.

[CavaliersFTW]

Because his competition was this:

http://cdn.ipernity.com/112/54/67/6105467.88522dc7.640.jpg
Rec athletes from 1910?

[raiderfan19]

Gretzky is the answer.

Unless you include boxing in which case Robinson is the clear cut goat

[jstern]

Because his competition was this:

http://cdn.ipernity.com/112/54/67/6105467.88522dc7.640.jpg
I find it fascinating that Wilt nor Russell were alive yet when that picture was taken.

[QuebecBaller]

http://www.oocities.org/wgretz1999/thegreatone.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

Granted I don't follow hockey closely, but Gretzky would seem to be the most clear cut GOAT in his respective sport. Jordan would probably be second

[choppermagic]

Gretzky in hockey. Guy won rings AND has all the big records. Pretty much loved by fans too.

Boxing - Ali?

[Mr Feeny]

Kareem deserves a mention, the guy is the all-time leading scorer, 6 time NBA MVP, & 5x NBA Champion.

And yet hes was a fraction of the player Jordan was.
There's a reason Jordan is the consensus goat.

[fourkicks44]

Wilt has all the records, Russell has all the rings - why is Jordan the obvious GOAT again?

Has the greatest combination of both.

[Round Mound]

[B]Soccer: Pel

[LAZERUSS]

Because his competition was this:

http://cdn.ipernity.com/112/54/67/6105467.88522dc7.640.jpg

Looks the exact same as MJ's competition... you know, the team that he went 0-6 against?

http://www.geocities.ws/Colosseum/Court/6413/history/1985-86.jpg

Incidently...what was Bill Walton's height again?

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Soccer: Pel

[winwin]

Muhammad Ali Was a Rebel. Michael Jordan Is a Brand Name.

Dozens of news commentators have proclaimed Jordan the greatest basketball player of all time, hands down, as if Wilt Chamberlain somehow doesn’t count because he played before the advent of ESPN. But the hagiography extends beyond the question and coverage of Jordan’s athletic abilities. It often seems that Jordan’s consistent ability to win has worked to inflate our estimation of his character.


Yet it might be worth pausing, in the midst of all this adulation, to ask just what kind of hero we have chosen. Some sports legends—Muhammad Ali, Jackie Robinson, Arthur Ashe—were respected as much for their personalities and ideals as for their athletic prowess. And while he can match and perhaps exceed the athletic accomplishments of men such as these, Jordan doesn’t even compete when it comes to having a lasting, noncommercial impact on society.


When Jordan flashed a less amicable side—when he reportedly called New York Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy a “****ing hockey puck,” for instance—the press tended to chuckle and dismiss it. Critical assessments of Jordan seemed to be off-limits. And why was it that only Time magazine and one Milwaukee newspaper ran a story about a woman who filed a paternity suit against Jordan last year?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222878

[Hey Yo]

http://www.oocities.org/wgretz1999/thegreatone.jpg
The obvious smaller size of equipment and smaller goalies that Gretzky faced for his first 10yrs or so.


http://wpmedia.o.canada.com/2014/08/gretzky12_27456351.jpg





Today's standard size goalie equipment with thicker body mass.

https://2e0a24317f4a9294563f-26c3b154822345d9dde0204930c49e9c.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/8592276_new-goalie-equipment-more-cameras-coming_78f83660_m.jpg


I'm not saying "The Great One" wasn't great but.....

[HighFlyer23]

Gretzky more so than MJ

[FKAri]

Gretzky. If Lemeiux had a legit career than they'd be closer and the answer to this question would be Jordan.

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Soccer: Pel

[TheMan]

Lol at the clown who posted Russell.

Russell isn't even the GOAT player at his position :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

Looks the exact same as MJ's competition... you know, the team that he went 0-6 against?

http://www.geocities.ws/Colosseum/Court/6413/history/1985-86.jpg

Incidently...what was Bill Walton's height again?


Damn.

OWNED.

[bigkingsfan]

All about them rangs 11 > 6

[Bless Mathews]

All about them rangs 11 > 6

:facepalm

You mean when there was 8 teams with 6'6" white centers that smoked cigarettes at halftime and bagged groceries in off season?

:roll:

Please

And "rangs" is my trademOarked term.

You will receive a demand letter from my team.

Mj is goat of all goats.

[livinglegend]

Russell has a better case than MJ for GOAT.

[bigkingsfan]

:facepalm

You mean when there was 8 teams with 6'6" white centers that smoked cigarettes at halftime and bagged groceries in off season?

:roll:

Please

And "rangs" is my trademOarked term.

You will receive a demand letter from my team.

Mj is goat of all goats.

8 teams mean everyone is STACKED, not watered down with expansion teams during MJ ERA. RANGS!

[Mr Feeny]

Russell has a better case than MJ for GOAT.

Your mom has better case for a dong downstairs than you

[nightprowler10]

As a huge MJ fan, lol no.

[Mr Feeny]

The GOAT is by far Sachin Tendulkar. Or gretsky. Or messi. Or fed. Or MJ.

Meh. Shouldn't have said "by far"

[AirBonner]

Tom Brady at the very least is equal to Jordan. He has done more with less. He was never considered as a top player when he was drafted and literally came out of nowhere which makes his legacy even more unbelievable :pimp:

[Round Mound]

Gretzky. If Lemeiux had a legit career than they'd be closer and the answer to this question would be Jordan.


Messi is basically Maradona 2.0 (not saying Messi is much better but he is sort of like a modernized Maradona). And Pele played so long ago that it was almost a different game.

:facepalm :no:

[HighFlyer23]

The GOAT is by far Sachin Tendulkar. Or gretsky. Or messi. Or fed. Or MJ.

Meh. Shouldn't have said "by far"

No

[Bless Mathews]

8 teams mean everyone is STACKED, not watered down with expansion teams during MJ ERA. RANGS!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Damn. Dumbest Poast of the decade nominee!!!!!


6'6" 200 pound white guys going against Bill.

:roll:


Seriously. Dumbest Poast in history.

The level of skill and size in the 50's??

[Soundwave]

Wayne Gretzky is the only one that has a case out of modern team sports IMO.

[bigkingsfan]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Damn. Dumbest Poast of the decade nominee!!!!!


6'6" 200 pound white guys going against Bill.

:roll:


Seriously. Dumbest Poast in history.

The level of skill and size in the 50's??
Craftiness, high basketball IQ. These current dark skins dumb as fk. STACKED TO DA ROOF!

Stop poasting bra.

[sd3035]

Wayne Gretzky is the answer

[Asukal]

Yes he is, the phrase "Michael Jordan of" is created because of him. Gretzky is great no doubt but hockey is not as popular as basketball worldwide.

[Uncle Drew]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Football: Pel

[INDI]

Football - Who's the GOAT, Rice or Brady? Jim Brown? No clue.

Baseball - Ruth? Mays? Williams? Mantle? Bonds? No clue.

Hockey - I don't know much about hockey, but I think the consensus is Wayne Gretzky.

Soccer - No clue.

Basketball - Jordan, and there isn't much of a debate unless someone has an agenda.

Soccer - PELE. He dominated his sport greater than anyone else. Not only that but he did it against racist competition and refs that did their best to stop him and couldn't.

[hold this L]

Pele is up there for footy, even though he's been the most ignorant dumbass in regards to anything about the sport since he's retired. :facepalm

[Psileas]

Not at all, regardless of what the overwhelming majority has been led to believe (that it isn't even close and it's blasphemous to think he's not the GOAT), unless all other major sports have had mythical, incredible competition that definitely overwhelms Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, etc. He's neither the MDE (Wilt) nor the GOAT winner/team impact player (Russell) nor does he "obviously" have the GOAT overall basketball career (Kareem, Russell, Wilt all have great cases) nor did he have the GOAT competition in his position career wise nor did he have the GOAT team competition when he was winning titles.
He may be the GOAT at certain fields, but it's definitely not set in stone that he owns the best combination of all criteria to certainly be the GOAT - most people aren't even 100% able to find the best combination between 2 fields, let alone find the best combination among much more of them. Not to mention, most fans set their criteria after they have declared someone the greatest, so, setting the criteria is irrelevant, it will be done to suit your choice. And if someone is on the verge of catching their GOAT favorite in these criteria, most of these fans will move the posts or add more criteria to make it seem it's still not close.

Let me take another step and ask this: If Jordan is, for some reason, the obvious GOAT, how come there is no obvious #2 GOAT?

[sd3035]

Pele is another good answer, probably even better than Gretzky

[moey-]

Sir Donald Bradman is the unanimous greatest cricket batsman that has ever lived. Statistically he is streets ahead of the next best. An absolute icon of the game. Nobody comes close.

[StephHamann]

Pele will only be remebered for his erectile dysfunctionality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s32uMiY0HGY

[sd3035]

Sir Donald Bradman is the unanimous greatest cricket batsman that has ever lived. Statistically he is streets ahead of the next best. An absolute icon of the game. Nobody comes close.

I think we're talking about real sports here :lol

[stalkerforlife]

Soccer - PELE. He dominated his sport greater than anyone else. Not only that but he did it against racist competition and refs that did their best to stop him and couldn't.

Damn. Props.

[stalkerforlife]

Not at all, regardless of what the overwhelming majority has been led to believe (that it isn't even close and it's blasphemous to think he's not the GOAT), unless all other major sports have had mythical, incredible competition that definitely overwhelms Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, etc. He's neither the MDE (Wilt) nor the GOAT winner/team impact player (Russell) nor does he "obviously" have the GOAT overall basketball career (Kareem, Russell, Wilt all have great cases) nor did he have the GOAT competition in his position career wise nor did he have the GOAT team competition when he was winning titles.
He may be the GOAT at certain fields, but it's definitely not set in stone that he owns the best combination of all criteria to certainly be the GOAT - most people aren't even 100% able to find the best combination between 2 fields, let alone find the best combination among much more of them. Not to mention, most fans set their criteria after they have declared someone the greatest, so, setting the criteria is irrelevant, it will be done to suit your choice. And if someone is on the verge of catching their GOAT favorite in these criteria, most of these fans will move the posts or add more criteria to make it seem it's still not close.

Let me take another step and ask this: If Jordan is, for some reason, the obvious GOAT, how come there is no obvious #2 GOAT?

Because Jordan stands alone and is so blatantly obvious the choice as GOAT.

Most people have Kareem second, though.

[Jasper]

Football - Who's the GOAT, Rice or Brady? Jim Brown? No clue.

Baseball - Ruth? Mays? Williams? Mantle? Bonds? No clue.

Hockey - I don't know much about hockey, but I think the consensus is Wayne Gretzky.

Soccer - No clue.

Basketball - Jordan, and there isn't much of a debate unless someone has an agenda.
Football - Marino (IMO Walter Payton)
Baseball - Babe Ruth
Hockey - Gretzky
Soccer- Peli

And then we come to BBall-

Jordan is the prototypical Goat because we don't know if he would of won 6 in a row , or 8 or 9 titles if he did not retire and then come back.
Holding many records , he dominated his sport like no other.
His 72 win team playing on the playground against the Warriors would of destroyed the Warriors.
Curry would of been luck if he got 10 points while Jordan would of DESTROYED him.
But we are talking about legacies and that means how an athlete is depicted as a representative of his sport or all of sports.
Jordan depicts sports and bball in general(.)

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Soccer: Pel

[90sgoat]

Yes, MJ is goat, Ali is not even considered the best boxer, that goes to someone like Sugar Ray Robinson and even in heavies you have people picking Joe Louis.

GOAT in a non major sport is probably Aleksandr Karelin the greco-roman olympic wrestler, he has a record of 887 wins and 2 losses (on technicalities in his last years).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Karelin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_dDKWmyz4k

Karelin was 6'3'', 280lbs and fought in the superheavy division, where he quite literally picked up other 280lbs opponents and threw them like ragdolls. He claims, and people believe it, to have carried a washing machine up to his USSR apartment on the 3rd floor in one go.

And he has one of the best quotes:

"I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs"

[hold this L]

Cristiano will probably go down as greatest player to ever grace a football field
No he won't. Dude gets bodied in national competition on a regular basis, sometimes with humiliating Ls. Both he & Messi taking Ls on the national stage.

[Psileas]

Because Jordan stands alone and is so blatantly obvious the choice as GOAT.

Ηοw does he stand alone if he's not the GOAT at any of the fields I mentioned?


Most people have Kareem second, though.

No, they don't, if by "most", you mean the absolute majority (more than 50%) - even more so if we're talking about general opinion, not a certain NBA board alone, since many don't consider Kareem even top 5. I doubt a poll for the #2 GOAT would give to anyone more than around 35% of all votes - and so it should be regarding #1, as well. I don't see anything that pushes Jordan (or whoever) so far ahead of his competition that should warrant those crazy 80-85% figures that Jordan gets now. Heck, Jordan was still getting like 60%+ of all votes for #1 after his 1st retirement, after 9 years, when he hadn't yet clearly overtaken players like Bird or current Shaq or Duncan accolade-wise, let alone the absolute GOATs. So, this "6 rings, 6 F.MVP's" thing was a newer criterion, but, as history has shown, it was more or less fake or needless to the mind of most fans, since just half this resume was already doing the job according to the '93 majority.

[stalkerforlife]

Ηοw does he stand alone if he's not the GOAT at any of the fields I mentioned?



No, they don't, if by "most", you mean the absolute majority (more than 50%) - even more so if we're talking about general opinion, not a certain NBA board alone, since many don't consider Kareem even top 5. I doubt a poll for the #2 GOAT would give to anyone more than around 35% of all votes - and so it should be regarding #1, as well. I don't see anything that pushes Jordan (or whoever) so far ahead of his competition that should warrant those crazy 80-85% figures that Jordan gets now. Heck, Jordan was still getting like 60%+ of all votes for #1 after his 1st retirement, after 9 years, when he hadn't yet clearly overtaken players like Bird or current Shaq or Duncan accolade-wise, let alone the absolute GOATs. So, this "6 rings, 6 F.MVP's" thing was a newer criterion, but, as history has shown, it was more or less fake or needless to the mind of most fans, since just half this resume was already doing the job according to the '93 majority.

:biggums:

[moey-]

I think we're talking about real sports here :lol

2nd or 3rd most popular sport in the world.

[retaxis]

Seriously when Wilt and Russ played, they were paid less than the average accountants and postman of their time. No one wanted to touch a basketball back then because it wasn't a sport you can make any money in. thats why there were only 8 teams full of random guys between 5 feet and 6 foot 5.

These days being a franchise player can help you make hundreds of millions so a lot more people are into it and try to play the sport seriously from a very young age. Regardless the talent in the past is not comparable to the talent offered today.

If GSW played in the 50s and 60s...They would win 20 championships in a row.

[k0kakw0rld]

Football - Who's the GOAT, Rice or Brady? Jim Brown? No clue.

Baseball - Ruth? Mays? Williams? Mantle? Bonds? No clue.

Hockey - I don't know much about hockey, but I think the consensus is Wayne Gretzky.

Soccer - No clue.

Basketball - Jordan, and there isn't much of a debate unless someone has an agenda.
KAJ is considered the GOAT by a vast majority of basketball fans.

Soccer: Pele (Even tho I disagree)



Hockey: Gretzky, but Jagr cause of longevity I mean the man is 44 years of age and scoring goals like he is in his 30s. :bowdown:

Football: Manning

[LAZERUSS]

:biggums:

In 1999 ESPN's 50 Greatest Athletes had Kareem ranked 5th, behind MJ, Wilt, Magic, and Russell.

https://espn.go.com/sportscentury/athletes.html


Aside from a washed up Jordan, who played two more seasons...none of the rest have played a game since.

[stalkerforlife]

KAJ is considered the GOAT by a vast majority of basketball fans.

Soccer: Pele (Even tho I disagree)



Hockey: Gretzky, but Jagr cause of longevity I mean the man is 44 years of age and scoring goals like he is in his 30s. :bowdown:

Football: Manning

:lol

[sd3035]

2nd or 3rd most popular sport in the world.

Indians aren't real athletes

[r0drig0lac]

Pele because it is basically a hybrid of Wilt and Russell

[ArbitraryWater]

No he won't. Dude gets bodied in national competition on a regular basis, sometimes with humiliating Ls. Both he & Messi taking Ls on the national stage.

whats that, 3 games every two years? Lol

[LAZERUSS]

I'm no expert when it comes to hockey, but last time I checked, Gretzky held something like 63 records.

Wilt? Depending on the source, anywhere from 72...to Pollack's 100+... to ME, and my HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS.

BTW, Chamberlain holds MANY PLAYOFF RECORDS as well.


We could also go with Larry Bird, who once claimed that Jordan was God playing basketball.

http://www.nba.com/2012/history/features/05/20/season-of-giants-wilt-ahead-of-time/index.html


When the topic of all-time greatest player was once raised, a fellow named Larry Bird didn't hesitate. "Let me tell you something," Bird said. "For a while, they were saying that I was the greatest. And before me, it was Magic who was the greatest. And then it's Michael's turn. But open up the record book and it will be obvious who the greatest is."

How about Kareem?

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/05/kareem-abdul-jabbar-questions-scottie-pippens-argument-that-lebron-james-may-be-the-greatest-player-.html


Every team had the opportunity to amass a solid nucleus. Only the cream of the basketball world got to play then. So MJ has to be appraised in perspective. His incredible athletic ability, charisma and leadership on the court helped to make basketball popular around the world -- no question about that. But in terms of greatness, MJ has to take a backseat to The Stilt.

How about Bill Russell's opinion?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


"Nobody seems to appreciate what an incredible player Wilt was," Russell said at 1997 All-Star Game when the league named and honored its 50 greatest players. "He was the best player of all time because he dominated the floor like nobody else ever could. To be that big and that athletic was special."

How about Rick Barry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTt_TxoFVo


You can go right down the list.

There are those that have MJ, or Kareem, or Russell as the GOATs...but there is no question that Wilt is also in the discussion.

[Hey Yo]

Indians aren't real athletes
Not surprised you've never heard of Jim Thorpe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe

[hateraid]

The obvious smaller size of equipment and smaller goalies that Gretzky faced for his first 10yrs or so.


http://wpmedia.o.canada.com/2014/08/gretzky12_27456351.jpg





Today's standard size goalie equipment with thicker body mass.

https://2e0a24317f4a9294563f-26c3b154822345d9dde0204930c49e9c.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/8592276_new-goalie-equipment-more-cameras-coming_78f83660_m.jpg


I'm not saying "The Great One" wasn't great but.....

That would matter. Even amongst his generation he was smashing goals. The guy one year had more assists than the second place person had points.

Gretzky would be 9/10, Jordan 7.5/10

[hateraid]

I'm no expert when it comes to hockey, but last time I checked, Gretzky held something like 63 records.

Wilt? Depending on the source, anywhere from 72...to Pollack's 100+... to ME, and my HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS.

BTW, Chamberlain holds MANY PLAYOFF RECORDS as well.


We could also go with Larry Bird, who once claimed that Jordan was God playing basketball.

http://www.nba.com/2012/history/features/05/20/season-of-giants-wilt-ahead-of-time/index.html



How about Kareem?

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/05/kareem-abdul-jabbar-questions-scottie-pippens-argument-that-lebron-james-may-be-the-greatest-player-.html



How about Bill Russell's opinion?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain



How about Rick Barry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTt_TxoFVo


You can go right down the list.

There are those that have MJ, or Kareem, or Russell as the GOATs...but there is no question that Wilt is also in the discussion.

Actually Gretzky holds the record for the most records held by an athlete in their sport

[AirBonner]

]
KAJ is considered the GOAT by a vast majority of basketball fans.

Soccer: Pele (Even tho I disagree)



Hockey: Gretzky, but Jagr cause of longevity I mean the man is 44 years of age and scoring goals like he is in his 30s. :bowdown:

Football: Manning
You are dumb. Manning has the most one and dones in the playoffs. Great regular season quarterback but shrunk like a little boi when the lights were bright. Brady was both great regular season and playoff quarterback. Brady>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Forehead

[Nilocon165]

Lebron James

[Soundwave]

Gretzky was incredible, but the second half of his career wasn't nearly as remarkable and some of his stats likely were inflated by hilariously bad goaltending early in his career.

For example Gretzky didn't win a Cup (championship) for the last 11 years of his career. Jordan does have Gretzky beat on championships too ... 6 vs 4.

Hockey as a sports changed more dramatically from the 80s to the mid-late 90s than basketball did because the goaltending position and equipment changed dramatically also the way defence was coached changed entirely and things like the trap came into effect.

[La Frescobaldi]

Eddie Merckx and it isn't even close.

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/images/alltime25graph.gif

Individual achievements, team achievements, franchise leader.... doesn't matter. Nobody is remotely close to The Cannibal.

[Kblaze8855]

I was gonna bring up Bradman but someone beat me to it. not a sport I concern myself with but worldwide...its more major than American football by a lot. That guy is so much beyond anyone else its hard to conceive. Even without knowing the sports....the numbers alone? The difference between him and everyone else? If you put the ratio by which he leads everyone else in batting in basketball terms...its like a career scoring average of 45 or so ppg. His test(whatever the **** that is) average is 99.94....#2? 61. Hes 99.

#2 all time?

61.

Hes so far ahead of everyone else its literally beyond all discussion.

Also...Michael Schumacher. When you really look into it he was absurd. Another sport I dont care about....but still. Ive read articles from people suggesting they weigh his car down just to make it fair.

Also...Alexander Karelin. Olympic wrestler. He went 887-2 for his career...and was screwed out of one of the losses. He gave up one point...in life. Outside the 2000 olympics...he never gave up a point in his career.

[feyki]

Bill Russell or Johann Cruyff .

[Just2McFly]

the d!ck riding is out of control, like people are really that disrespectful to KAJ/Magic and Shaq? SMH.

[alenleomessi]

Also...Michael Schumacher. When you really look into it he was absurd. Another sport I dont care about....but still. Ive read articles from people suggesting they weigh his car down just to make it fair.

.
lots of people consider ayrton senna the greatest..

[r0drig0lac]

lots of people consider ayrton senna the greatest..
1- Senna
2- Fangio
3- Prost
4- Schumacher

[ArbitraryWater]

Bill Russell or Johann Cruyff .

this isnt 'name your favorites' but more so asking for consensus opinions.

[alenleomessi]

this isnt 'name your favorites' but more so asking for consensus opinions.
then why did you name CR? Most people still consider Cruyff the greatest european

[ArbitraryWater]

then why did you name CR? Most people still consider Cruyff the greatest european

Because he will GO DOWN as GOAT.. piling up too many CL trophies right now.

Both he and Messi have won 3 finals but everyone remembers how much of a sham '09 was.. and Ronaldo has made it to one more final. All on less talented squads. No way around him :bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

Because he will GO DOWN as GOAT.. piling up too many CL trophies right now.

Both he and Messi have won 3 finals but everyone remembers how much of a sham '09 was.. and Ronaldo has made it to one more final. All on less talented squads. No way around him :bowdown:

If you think cr is even a patch on messi then you truly know nothing about football. Nobody who does would take you seriously.

[Mr Feeny]

then why did you name CR? Most people still consider Cruyff the greatest european

Because he's a Cristiano fanboy. Cristiano isn't even better than Gerd muller or Franz, nevermind cruyff.
He's basically what Kobe is in basketball. His fanboys overrate him and throw tantrums when the majority of fans don't consider him a top 10 player while those fanboys insist he's goat.
He's Kobe in every sense. Overrated. And just nowhere as good as his fans think so nevermind comparing him with the GOAT -messi.

[ArbitraryWater]

my alt slipping up in here


srsly though, dont talk football if you think Cristiano isnt even better than Gerd, lol.

[Mr Feeny]

Fwiw,

Messi has 8 leagues, 4 ucls and and 4 cups and 28 trophies overall while
CR who's 3 year older has 4 leagues (1 since he moved to Spain and went head to head against messi), 3 ucls (the first featured him being the only man United player to miss a penalty and would have cost them the ucl but for terry slipping and the latter two he was the worst player on the pitch as voted by marca readers - madrids own fans.

Sergio ramos and Gareth bale were there to save him both times.
This is no different from.the way Shaw won the 3 titles for the Lakers and Kobe stands wanting to use them to make an argument for him as a top 5 player.

Anyone who actually understands football would laugh :cheers:

[j3lademaster]

I would say so. How many times have you heard someone is the "Michael Jordan" of something when complimenting one's domination. People need to realize that the majority of sports fans are going to be casual fans, so being the most popular athlete with the most commercial endorsements goes a long way for GOAT status.

[Mr Feeny]

my alt slipping up in here


srsly though, dont talk football if you think Cristiano isnt even better than Gerd, lol.

Don't talk football of you think cr is better than Gerd.

And yea lol you and I argue so much that I'm surprised people think I'm your alt:lol

[feyki]

this isnt 'name your favorites' but more so asking for consensus opinions.

Perspective is key factor here .

I'm looking with who were more succesful in their sports . Media,perceptions,votes ; they don't tell the truth . They tell what they can see .


And , every era overrates players of their times . This is classic . For a 2010's boy , Of course , You should overrate Ronaldo or Lebron or Messi . Some people will overrate Curry a few years later , like 80's people claims Bird and Magic as Goat . This is normal .

If i do rank some player , i want to adjust their competition to see what they did actually , in reality . I didn't watch past couple years football . But I didn't see Ronaldo was succesful as good as Cruyff in World cups . Same competition . Before Mid 90's Players didn't had Champions league like after 95 players consistently .

[sd3035]

Not surprised you've never heard of Jim Thorpe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe


That guy isn't from India :lol

Not surprised you don't know geography

[Hey Yo]

That guy isn't from India :lol

Not surprised you don't know geography
So they're called Indians...... not Indonesians?

[sd3035]

So they're called Indians...... not Indonesians?


Indonesia is a completely different country :roll: :roll:

You really need to take a look at a map

[Psileas]

I was gonna bring up Bradman but someone beat me to it. not a sport I concern myself with but worldwide...its more major than American football by a lot. That guy is so much beyond anyone else its hard to conceive. Even without knowing the sports....the numbers alone? The difference between him and everyone else? If you put the ratio by which he leads everyone else in batting in basketball terms...its like a career scoring average of 45 or so ppg. His test(whatever the **** that is) average is 99.94....#2? 61. Hes 99.

#2 all time?

61.

Hes so far ahead of everyone else its literally beyond all discussion.

Also...Michael Schumacher. When you really look into it he was absurd. Another sport I dont care about....but still. Ive read articles from people suggesting they weigh his car down just to make it fair.

Also...Alexander Karelin. Olympic wrestler. He went 887-2 for his career...and was screwed out of one of the losses. He gave up one point...in life. Outside the 2000 olympics...he never gave up a point in his career.

I also wanted to mention Bradman, but I'm not aware of cricket records, let alone teams and championships.

For people who also consider popular board games as sports, I also want to add another name: Dr. Marion Tinsley, draughts (checkers) legend:
-Could see even 60+ moves ahead.
-Won multiple world championships in a row, then retired due to boredom, literally (even his best opponents were afraid of trying to win against him, thus always played conservatively, trying to draw), then came back and dominated even more, at age 60+.
-Had an ELO of 2800+, while nobody else could get to 2700.
-Lost 7 games in his 45 year pro career, only 5 to humans. Never lost a major tournament.
-A powerful computer (for the era) was developed just in order to beat him in a series of games. It lost the series. They made it even more powerful, it played a new series of games. It drew, before Tinsley retiring due to serious health problems. The latest version of the computer was able to solve the whole game of checkers. So, a slightly better player than Tinsley would only be someone who could literally analyze all the billions upon billions of positions of the game.

[SamuraiSWISH]

In team sports? MJ. Because of dominance individually on both sides of the ball. Plus team success. Closest otherwise is Gretzky. But he was just an offensive power house.

[ArbitraryWater]

Fwiw,

Messi has 8 leagues, 4 ucls and and 4 cups and 28 trophies overall while
CR who's 3 year older has 4 leagues (1 since he moved to Spain and went head to head against messi), 3 ucls (the first featured him being the only man United player to miss a penalty and would have cost them the ucl but for terry slipping and the latter two he was the worst player on the pitch as voted by marca readers - madrids own fans.

Sergio ramos and Gareth bale were there to save him both times.
This is no different from.the way Shaw won the 3 titles for the Lakers and Kobe stands wanting to use them to make an argument for him as a top 5 player.

Anyone who actually understands football would laugh :cheers:

counting all these baby trophies for Messi... a CL in which he didn't play the final or a single knockout game besides the R16 first leg? Come on....

two leagues where he was barely a starter yet?

And fck Ronaldo's low league count.... makes me mad :coleman:

[ArbitraryWater]

No he won't. Dude gets bodied in national competition on a regular basis, sometimes with humiliating Ls. Both he & Messi taking Ls on the national stage.

.....




































wins EURO's :yaohappy:

[K Xerxes]

In terms of truly global sports and household names, Jordan is the closest thing to a consensus there is. His closest competitor would be Ali, but in boxing circles Ali isn't widely considered the best boxer of all time. That would be Sugar Ray. In terms of ability and cultural impact in their sport, Jordan has both. federer would be in this discussion if he wasn't Nadal's personal boy toy in H2H. Bolt may be in this discussion given some time too.

Gretzky shouldn't even be considered because very few outside of North America has heard of him. There are many region-specific sports with unanimous GOATs, e.g. Lin Dan of badminton, Jan-Ove Waldner of table tennis, but of course Americans are too pompous to recognise there exists a sporting world outside of their gravity.

[f0und]

when someone is so good at something, far beyond any of their peers, they are said to be "The Michael Jordan" of so and so. they dont say that for no reason.

[DaHeezy]

In terms of truly global sports and household names, Jordan is the closest thing to a consensus there is. His closest competitor would be Ali, but in boxing circles Ali isn't widely considered the best boxer of all time. That would be Sugar Ray. In terms of ability and cultural impact in their sport, Jordan has both. federer would be in this discussion if he wasn't Nadal's personal boy toy in H2H. Bolt may be in this discussion given some time too.

Gretzky shouldn't even be considered because very few outside of North America has heard of him. There are many region-specific sports with unanimous GOATs, e.g. Lin Dan of badminton, Jan-Ove Waldner of table tennis, but of course Americans are too pompous to recognise there exists a sporting world outside of their gravity.
The question is who is the most dominant in their sport, not who's the most globally recognized

Dumb answer

[Akrazotile]

It's obviously very close among a handful of guys, but I think ultimately Lebron has that little bit of extra separation that gives him the edge to be considered the GOAT of the GOATs.


Excellent question tho, OP, and definitely a worthwhile discussion to have. :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

In terms of truly global sports and household names, Jordan is the closest thing to a consensus there is. His closest competitor would be Ali, but in boxing circles Ali isn't widely considered the best boxer of all time. That would be Sugar Ray. In terms of ability and cultural impact in their sport, Jordan has both. federer would be in this discussion if he wasn't Nadal's personal boy toy in H2H. Bolt may be in this discussion given some time too.

Gretzky shouldn't even be considered because very few outside of North America has heard of him. There are many region-specific sports with unanimous GOATs, e.g. Lin Dan of badminton, Jan-Ove Waldner of table tennis, but of course Americans are too pompous to recognise there exists a sporting world outside of their gravity.

Have you read my thread on Waldner?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383443

The first paragraph is a bit shady.. I just heart he had some personality syndrome something like that.

[swagga]

it's got to be that swimmer dude, so many medals.

[Dro]

Gretzky is the answer.

Unless you include boxing in which case Robinson is the clear cut goat
This is false. You have people who think Ali or even Mayweather are the greatest...

[Dro]

Russell has a better case than MJ for GOAT.
lol, how?

[Mayday Malone]

Secretariat is the right answer.

Jordan wasn't even the best player on the court for his first nine years. He had to wait until the Bird/Isaiah/Magic trio got old for everyone to say, "Hey, Jordan learned how to pass the ball! Now he's winning!" Except he hadn't, the true competition just did what it had to do for him to win; it got old.

[JBSptfn]

Secretariat is the right answer.

Jordan wasn't even the best player on the court for his first nine years. He had to wait until the Bird/Isaiah/Magic trio got old for everyone to say, "Hey, Jordan learned how to pass the ball! Now he's winning!" Except he hadn't, the true competition just did what it had to do for him to win; it got old.

Dude, you are a poet. MJ isn't the best ever. Wilt and the Big O were better.

Also, the OP said that Rice and Brady are candidates for the best NFL player ever? :roll:. I don't think so. Rice and Brady were products of team success. Jim Brown is the correct answer.

[LAZERUSS]

In terms of pure domination in a major professional team sports (at least American and Canadian major team sports, and not including soccer)...

No one approaches Chamberlain.

Harvey Pollack had Wilt with over 90 NBA records, but the reality was, he had HUNDREDS, and in all likelyhood, THOUSANDS of NBA RECORDS.

And in BOTH the regular season, AND the post-season...combined.

[K Xerxes]

The question is who is the most dominant in their sport, not who's the most globally recognized

Dumb answer

The title suggests 'major' sports. My point is that the American-centric view is not necessarily true on the global scale. Ice Hockey isn't even close to a global sport. There are numerous obscure sports which have a dominant GOAT - Gretzky can be compared to them. But we're talking major sports which people around the world actually watch and participate, e.g. soccer, basketball, tennis, athletics etc.

[AirBonner]

Dude, you are a poet. MJ isn't the best ever. Wilt and the Big O were better.

Also, the OP said that Rice and Brady are candidates for the best NFL player ever? :roll:. I don't think so. Rice and Brady were products of team success. Jim Brown is the correct answer.
Yeah cuz Bill was soooo successful in cleveland before he had brady

[jayfan]

Yes. Hockey has the Gretzky/Lemieux problem. Federer would be absolute GOAT in tennis if he wasn't such a pigeon against Nadal. Tiger went off the rails before he could pass Nicklaus in golf.

Hockey is Gretzky/Gordie Howe.

Federer is probably still undisputed GOAT in spite of his problems with Nadal.



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