Why has LeBron's game regressed as he aged unlike MJ?

[ClipperRevival]

Ususally, as you get older, your skills should get further polished. But LeBron's game has already taken a noticeable dip and he is only 31. His footwork is still awful, he has no midrange game, and the stretch where he had a good post game in Miami is gone.

[STATUTORY]

no skill, no first step, no jump shot, no post up moves

strong stiff arm tho, could been a good running back in the NFL

[bigkingsfan]

Too bad the Cowboys already drafted a RB

[FreezingTsmoove]

I want to say because he does not have Ray Allen helping him anymore but its obvious its a lack of work ethic

You think this dude is in the basketball gym killing himself everyday to become better in the off season? Hell no

[kamil]

Greatest football player ever that wasn't.

[Nilocon165]

Because he sucks.

[game3524]

It is weird how his skills have regressed. I thought he was really skilled his last two years in Miami and I thought he would maintain that skill level as he ages, but now his shooting and post-game has regressed to young Lebron level.

He needs to this shit figured out before it is too late.

[konex]

Going to Miami was the worst thing to happen to his individual game IMO. Run and gun all day on a stacked dunking at the hoop. Playing in the shitty East doesn't help either.

He has not had to go to his 2nd and 3rd moves on offense until the Finals since 2010. Just a very limited scorer

[90sgoat]

No way this guy is in the league at 35 years old.

[NBAGOAT]

jump shot's regressed and too reliant on his athleticism for his age. Maybe focused on conditioning more during the offseason.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You literally just answered your own question...

His in-between game sucks ass.

[plowking]

So had MJ's game not regressed when he was 31 as well? :oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

OP is wrong as always



LeBron has played 45,000 minutes



Jordan only reached 45,000 minutes with the Wizards



Why don't you compare current LeBron to wizards Jordan :confusedshrug:

[TheReal Kendall]

no skill, no first step, no jump shot, no post up moves

strong stiff arm tho, could been a good running back in the NFL

:applause:

[ClipperRevival]

To me, this just proves LeBron never TRULY mastered the fundamentals as a kid. MJ's 3 years in North Carolina helped him tremendously because he was taught the basics of the game. And that mastery of the fundamentals helped him get more polished as he aged.

Not trying to hate but this dude is NOT the 3rd best player ever. Not when you haven't mastered some of the basics of the game.

[fourkicks44]

OP is wrong as always



LeBron has played 45,000 minutes



Jordan only reached 45,000 minutes with the Wizards



Why don't you compare current LeBron to wizards Jordan :confusedshrug:

Cause he was nearly 40? :confusedshrug:

[ClipperRevival]

Greatest football player ever that wasn't.

Would've been the GOAT TE.

[Dray n Klay]

To me, this just proves LeBron never TRULY mastered the fundamentals as a kid. MJ's 3 years in North Carolina helped him tremendously because he was taught the basics of the game. And that mastery of the fundamentals helped him get more polished as he aged.

Not trying to hate but this dude is NOT the 3rd best player ever. Not when you haven't mastered some of the basics of the game.


Answer this


OP is wrong as always



LeBron has played 45,000 minutes



Jordan only reached 45,000 minutes with the Wizards



Why don't you compare current LeBron to wizards Jordan :confusedshrug:

[ClipperRevival]

OP is wrong as always



LeBron has played 45,000 minutes



Jordan only reached 45,000 minutes with the Wizards



Why don't you compare current LeBron to wizards Jordan :confusedshrug:

WTF? You want me to compare a 40 year old to a 31 year old? Are you THIS delusional?

[game3524]

OP is wrong as always



LeBron has played 45,000 minutes



Jordan only reached 45,000 minutes with the Wizards



Why don't you compare current LeBron to wizards Jordan :confusedshrug:

The minutes play a huge role in terms of athleticism and conditioning decline, but it doesn't explain why his overall skills have regressed.

Seriously, Kobe at this stage of his career was on the downside athletically, but his basketball skills had never been better. Bron's skills shouldn't have regressed this much this fast, especially given the improvements he made in Miami.

[Indian guy]

Going to Miami was the worst thing to happen to his individual game IMO. Run and gun all day on a stacked dunking at the hoop.

Run and gun? Miami was a ridiculously slow paced team from 11-14. With an average rank of 21 during those 4 years. Most of LeBron's damage was coming in the half-court. Miami as a team themselves wwew a terrific half-court team, leading the league in half-court efficiency for the majority of those 4 years. The big difference between Heat LeBron and the current version is, of course, LeBron was a very good shooter for 3 of his 4 seasons in Miami. He has been an awful shooter the last 2 seasons.

[Dray n Klay]

WTF? You want me to compare a 40 year old to a 31 year old? Are you THIS delusional?


Same minutes



And even if you do it by age 31 year old LeBron > 31 year old MJ


Either way LeBron is better :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

Why has lebrons game regressed as he aged unlike MJ?

because he cant shoot for shit .. ?

it is a major hindrance on the teams spacing and his hesitance especially against iggy, always requesting screens and such to get off him has shown the FEAR in his heart. He is walkin into the ring with Mike Tyson staring him down and crumbling son.

[FashionIssues]

he can control tempo alone by bringing vintage basket going lebron. foul foul foul.

[fourkicks44]

I would still take old ass Wizards MJ in the Finals over 31 year old Lebron.

[ImKobe]

Same minutes



And even if you do it by age 31 year old LeBron > 31 year old MJ


Either way LeBron is better :confusedshrug:

:roll:

MJ age 31 averaged 32/7/5 on 48% shooting in the Playoffs after being out of the NBA for almost 2 full seasons

[gilalizard]

no skill, no first step, no jump shot, no post up moves

strong stiff arm tho, could been a good running back in the NFL

He's strong and fast and hacks away on defense like an axe murderer (without getting called for it of course). He might of made a good pass rusher too.

[fourkicks44]

Same minutes



And even if you do it by age 31 year old LeBron > 31 year old MJ


Either way LeBron is better :confusedshrug:

MJ was retired and playing baseball at 31.

Is Lebron going to retire, come back and win 3 rings?

[Ramiah]

Lebron doesn't have a jump shot...At all.

His post game is also dead.

He 100% relies on athleticism at 31...Dude is fvcked career wise.

[Poetry]

Why don't you compare current LeBron to wizards Jordan :confusedshrug:

Jordan (age 39-40)
0-3 feet: .614
3-10 feet: .363
10-16 feet: .439
16<3: .424
3P: .291

LeBron (age 30-31)
0-3 feet: .722
3-10 feet: .361
10-16 feet: .348
16<3: .404
3P: .309

LeBron has to work on that jumper if he wants to prolong his career.

[FKAri]

MJ regressed too. Everyone does. Problem with Lebron is out of all his athletic gifts, he chose to base his game around his least impressive one: quickness.

[Heilige]

He's being exposed.

All that unselfishness is just an excuse. He can't keep up with the shooting scheme of GSW, so he always looks for the pass because he knows damn well he can't make the shot. Sucks to hear for Bron stans but it's the truth and we all know it.

He has no tools to work with other than spearheading the paint and throwing up the ball with two hands and then beg for a foul.

And even Igadala and Bogurt have figured it all out..they are stripping him like a 5 year old with a christmas present.

[90sgoat]

MJ regressed too. Everyone does. Problem with Lebron is out of all his athletic gifts, he chose to base his game around his least impressive one: quickness.

'Regressed' MJ

http://media.giphy.com/media/VQ4ZE2kxgsOKk/giphy.gif

When Jordan's regressed prime was over, he invented the only other truly unblockable shot along with Kareems sky hook.

[FKAri]

'Regressed' MJ

http://media.giphy.com/media/VQ4ZE2kxgsOKk/giphy.gif

When Jordan's regressed prime was over, he invented the only other truly unblockable shot along with Kareems sky hook.
So you're arguing that he never regressed? Ok then. You win.

[choppermagic]

Hold on...

Lebron's flopping game has gotten stronger so he hasn't regressed in ALL aspects of his game.

[knicksman]

Because he never cared about winning aka a loser. Hes contented with winning mvps. Winning rings is a different animal but he wants none of that.

[Wade's Rings]

Going to Miami was the worst thing to happen to his individual game IMO. Run and gun all day on a stacked dunking at the hoop. Playing in the shitty East doesn't help either.

He has not had to go to his 2nd and 3rd moves on offense until the Finals since 2010. Just a very limited scorer

Disagree completely. Going to Miami actually helped his jumpshot and post game. Idk what happened but all of that seems to be gone now.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Ususally, as you get older, your skills should get further polished. But LeBron's game has already taken a noticeable dip and he is only 31. His footwork is still awful, he has no midrange game, and the stretch where he had a good post game in Miami is gone.
He was never a predominantly skill based player.

But yes. At least the past few years he could hit the open 3 or open mid range. Not now. First step is all but gone. Leaping ability is pedestrian to where it used to be.

And even more worrisome, if it wasn't evident today, dude can't even dribble now. I'm not talking about fancy or crafty moves to free himself. I'm talking basic dribbling. He can't do it. He has no touch with the ball now.

Jordan and Kobe weren't just athletic freaks. MJ had elite athleticism and Bryant was very athletic as well but it was their honed skills and craftiness that made them so dangerous even well past their prime into their 30's. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Who wins in a fight once you hit Superman with kryptonite? Him or Batman?

[sportjames23]

Hold on...

Lebron's flopping game has gotten stronger so he hasn't regressed in ALL aspects of his game.

Damn :oldlol:

[MP.Trey]

Because MJ's the GOAT?

[ClipperRevival]

So you're arguing that he never regressed? Ok then. You win.

Of course at some point, every great is rendered a non-factor at the NBA level due to age. But as you age, your skills should get better to compensate for the loss of athleticism. Guys like MJ/Kobe had a mastery of the basic, fundamentals so it was easy for them to expand their skillsets because all advanced moves are an extension of the fundamentals.

[Done_And_Done]

He's being exposed.

All that unselfishness is just an excuse. He can't keep up with the shooting scheme of GSW, so he always looks for the pass because he knows damn well he can't make the shot. Sucks to hear for Bron stans but it's the truth and we all know it.

He has no tools to work with other than spearheading the paint and throwing up the ball with two hands and then beg for a foul.

And even Igadala and Bogurt have figured it all out..they are stripping him like a 5 year old with a christmas present.

Respect to Heilige for being man enough to admit the truth and not allow himself to drown via the deadly grips of denial like so many around here...

[ClipperRevival]

This is why a mid-range jumper is so important for any great scorer. It is a last resort if nothing is there. Like if you can't get by your man, you can always pull up. As bad as Kobe's shot selection was at times, he could carry an offense better because he always had that mid-range jumper to get off if nothing was there. Bron not being able to hit a mid-range jumper to save his life is truly cringeworthy. How can the so called 3rd best player ever not hit a freaken 15-18 footer consistently? Or not travel every few times going to the basket? And not punish guys guarding him who weigh 30-40 lbs less than him in the post?

I'll tell you why. He never mastered the fundamental footworks. So much of bball is footwork. If you don't master it early, you can lean on bad habits and before you know it, your game is flawed.

[SamuraiSWISH]

This is why a mid-range jumper is so important for any great scorer. It is a last resort if nothing is there. Like if you can't get by your man, you can always pull up. As bad as Kobe's shot selection was at times, he could carry an offense better because he always had that mid-range jumper to get off if nothing was there. Bron not being able to hit a mid-range jumper to save his life is truly cringeworthy. How can the so called 3rd best player ever not hit a freaken 15-18 footer consistently? Or not travel every few times going to the basket? And not punish guys guarding him who weigh 30-40 lbs less than him in the post?

I'll tell you why. He never mastered the fundamental footworks. So much of bball is footwork. If you don't master it early, you can lean on bad habits and before you know it, your game is flawed.
Bingo.

In the more physically defended playoffs ... Layups are more difficult, whistles swallowed and 3's are more tightly contended.

At that point the mid range game becomes king to destroying defenses. You can see this even with how Curry is playing. Or how Harden disappears every post season.

[ClipperRevival]

Bingo.

In the more physically defended playoffs ... Layups are more difficult, whistles swallowed and 3's are more tightly contended.

At that point the mid range game becomes king to destroying defenses. You can see this even with how Curry is playing. Or how Harden disappears every post season.

Exactly. The game today is flawed because of this. It's such a basic part of the game and here we are, at the highest level, all but throwing that aspect out of the game. You see guys look like deer in headlights sometimes when they are given a wide open 15-18 footer because they are used to only shooting 3's. It's almost unbelievable to be honest.

[3ball]

Ususally, as you get older, your skills should get further polished. But LeBron's game has already taken a noticeable dip and he is only 31. His footwork is still awful, he has no midrange game, and the stretch where he had a good post game in Miami is gone.


This is why he hasn't aged well - you answered your own question.

People mistakenly think old age has robbed Lebron of his moves.. But the reality is that Lebron NEVER had elite moves - back in his most athletic days (the late 2000's), he scored primarily via ball-dominant drives - without that, he simply isn't that great.

One thing a pure shooter never loses is their jumpshot - here's jerry west at 75-years old draining midrange shot after shot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buYB75cMehY


do you think Lebron can do that NOW?.. No way - he's a bricklayer.. And we saw Jordan beat jimmy butler in a shooting contest in 2015 (youtube "jordan jimmy butler").

[Bawkish]

this is what you expect from skipping college and landing straight to the pros

Strong fundamentals is very important if you want to stay competitive for long time. Players today would rather spend their summer at rave parties than drilling 100 jumpshots a day. Goodbye work ethic...

[FKAri]

Of course at some point, every great is rendered a non-factor at the NBA level due to age. But as you age, your skills should get better to compensate for the loss of athleticism. Guys like MJ/Kobe had a mastery of the basic, fundamentals so it was easy for them to expand their skillsets because all advanced moves are an extension of the fundamentals.
That's why I said Lebron's game is based too much on speed. He assumes he can get by his man. Any skill he has is built on that assumed fact. For example, he is quite skilled in his ability to finish inside and in traffic. MJ's skills weren't based on the assumption that he'll always be able to blow past the first defender. If he did, then he would never have developed the turn around fadeaway as it would seem pointless.

[Soundwave]

His footwork and shooting are simply not strong points and they're never going to be. If he hasn't learned by age 31, it's never going to happen, dude already has some grey showing in his beard.

He is what he is, and it will get harder for him every year from here on out as the 30s kick in hard and quick.

[Glide2keva]

This is why a mid-range jumper is so important for any great scorer. It is a last resort if nothing is there. Like if you can't get by your man, you can always pull up. As bad as Kobe's shot selection was at times, he could carry an offense better because he always had that mid-range jumper to get off if nothing was there. Bron not being able to hit a mid-range jumper to save his life is truly cringeworthy. How can the so called 3rd best player ever not hit a freaken 15-18 footer consistently? Or not travel every few times going to the basket? And not punish guys guarding him who weigh 30-40 lbs less than him in the post?

I'll tell you why. He never mastered the fundamental footworks. So much of bball is footwork. If you don't master it early, you can lean on bad habits and before you know it, your game is flawed.
Because it is now an NBA Live/2K type of league.

Everything is either a dunk, or a three. The mid-range jumper is almost a thing of the past, and that's sad. That's why Livingston was able to kill them in Game 1. He kept peppering them with mid-range jump shots.

[Dragonyeuw]

So you're arguing that he never regressed? Ok then. You win.

Regressed in terms of athletic explosion, sure. Who doesn't? His skill/fundamental level was such that he was able to come back at 33/34/35 and dominate effectively a new era of stars. I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Lebron's jumper, but that's not normal. And his footwork was never elite to the degree that he can rely on that at this point, like Jordan/Kobe did after 30. I'd say Lebron is going to be better off long-term operating from the post, but the post-game he was starting to develop in Miami seems to have gone missing too for the most part.

[TheMan]

Same minutes



And even if you do it by age 31 year old LeBron > 31 year old MJ


Either way LeBron is better :confusedshrug:
You're an idiot

[Lebron23]

He already played more games, and more mileage than Jordan in the NBA. Jordan was a 22 yrs.old Rookie while LeBron was an 18 years old rookie.

[Optimus Prime]

Don't forget that the NBA implemented mandatory HGH testing last season (I think?). It's no coincidence that the HGH testing coincides with LeBron's performance falling off the cliff.

Anyway, LeBron only has a few apparent basketball skills:

1. Barreling into the lane like a running back, complete with stiff arms that would make the best NFL RBs jealous.

2. Refs.

3. Flopping.

4. Turning star teammates into spot-up shooters.

It seems that he never really learned true basketball skills, and he's off the juice now, so of course his performance would plummet as he ages. I said a while ago (I think it was right around when HGH testing was started) that LeBron's fall will be dramatic. In this instance, I love being right.

:kobe:

[Dragonyeuw]

Don't forget that the NBA implemented mandatory HGH testing last season (I think?). It's no coincidence that the HGH testing coincides with LeBron's performance falling off the cliff.



Even if this were true( and I'm not getting into a debate about it either way), what effect would HGH have on his shooting ability? I would think HGH would impact things like speed, stamina/endurance, explosiveness....but not shooting accuracy.

[GINOBILI!]

You're an idiot
Nothing new there.

[Chadwin]

When he was training with Hakeem he looked like a robot trying to learn post moves. Prime Hakeem looked like he was a better dribbler tbh.

[sd3035]

Don't forget that the NBA implemented mandatory HGH testing last season (I think?). It's no coincidence that the HGH testing coincides with LeBron's performance falling off the cliff.

Anyway, LeBron only has a few apparent basketball skills:

1. Barreling into the lane like a running back, complete with stiff arms that would make the best NFL RBs jealous.

2. Refs.

3. Flopping.

4. Turning star teammates into spot-up shooters.

It seems that he never really learned true basketball skills, and he's off the juice now, so of course his performance would plummet as he ages. I said a while ago (I think it was right around when HGH testing was started) that LeBron's fall will be dramatic. In this instance, I love being right.

:kobe:

very accurate post :applause: :applause:

[AirFederer]

I`m far far away from being a fan of Bron, but guys, come on.

1. Don`t compare his game to the goat, it`s not fair.

2. Lebron is doing fine. We can`t demand any more until now; he`s made it back to the finals. Stellar season. Is it his fault East is kind of weak? No.

3. His jumper is missing but he`s doing what he can. He`s posting fine stats, and his team is doing okay, but they are up against a historically good GSW team. GSW is not better than Bulls but they are truly great.

His game is not anywhere as aesthetically pleasing as MJs but it never was.

As I stated in another thread I`d like Bron to step up on D on every play and show more guts, more will. Not to point fingers when he makes a mistake.

He needs to go into beast mode if he (still) has one...

[Hey Yo]

So had MJ's game not regressed when he was 31 as well? :oldlol:
He quit the game in his prime at age 30 and 31, to rest up only to comeback 2yrs later at the end of the season to try to win a cheap ring.


Maybe that's what James should have done last season and he'd be more respected.....:rolleyes:

[Dro]

So had MJ's game not regressed when he was 31 as well? :oldlol:
Umm...his post game got better, his jump shot got better, his passing got better, his shot selection got better...how did MJ regress again?

[scuzzy]

Because he sucks.


F.R.A.U.D.

[Jasper]

Ususally, as you get older, your skills should get further polished. But LeBron's game has already taken a noticeable dip and he is only 31. His footwork is still awful, he has no midrange game, and the stretch where he had a good post game in Miami is gone.
Is it possible he started in the pro's right after high school :confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

Ususally, as you get older, your skills should get further polished. But LeBron's game has already taken a noticeable dip and he is only 31. His footwork is still awful, he has no midrange game, and the stretch where he had a good post game in Miami is gone.

It's what happens when a player relies on physical skills and not basketball skills.

[Hey Yo]

It's what happens when a player relies on physical skills and not basketball skills.
Originally Posted by sportjames23

If Bron leads the Cavs back to win this series, I'll rock a Lebron avy forever and permanently keep the sentences "Lebron is the greatest player in NBA history. **** MJ, Magic and Bird." in my sig.
Man up bitch or GTFO!!

[ScalsFan21]

For real SJ. You aren't ducking that forever. :lol

[warriorfan]

Originally Posted by sportjames23

Man up bitch or GTFO!!

Considering the circumstances the series was decided over, (Commissioner Interference, resulting injuries), sportjames does not have to honor the agreement