Would Kerr's offense still be goat-level with Lebron replacing Curry?

[3ball]

:roll:

Of course not.. Lebron had 5-6 coaches in his career, and not a single one has been able to implement a sophisticated, structured offense around Lebron..

His ball-dominant style from the forward position (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12430670&postcount=21) doesn't allow a sophisticated brand of basketball or teammates to play to full capacity.. The only reason he won a couple rings in Miami is because his absurd supporting talent was enough to offset his suboptimal play - for example, it's a documented fact that the Heat were a worse team when Wade and Lebron were both on the floor than otherwise, yet they still managed to eek out 2/4.

Recently, he's tried to play off-ball so teammates can play to full capacity, but he isn't a good enough off-ball player to get HIS max stats off-ball, so the team still plays undercapacity.

The Warriors and Cavs are close talent-wise, but the Warriors strategy and brand of basketball is dimensions superior.

[bigkingsfan]

Would Jordan ever win without Pippen? :eek:

[PP34Deuce]

Curry is Randy Moss. Very good offense turns great when he's plugged in.

Bad offense, his spacing and 3 ball threat makes it good. He can also wilt and mentally isn't always there.

[STATUTORY]

no, all the sudden Dray/Clay/Iggy are just spot up shooters who can't create for themselves and Lebron would need MORE HALP

[riseagainst]

Curry is Randy Moss. Very good offense turns great when he's plugged in.

Bad offense, his spacing and 3 ball threat makes it good. He can also wilt and mentally isn't always there.


:lol
:roll:

[MP.Trey]

So you are admitting this Warriors team is GOAT-level.

You're going to have to switch back to bashing Curry here soon if he picks it up, good thing he likes to go hide in a corner in the Finals while his teammates do his work or he could actually be a threat to MJ.

[3ball]

Would Jordan ever win without Pippen? :eek:


Jordan would've won even MORE rings with Lebron's supporting casts (10-time all-star as his 3rd option, 2nd best shooter ever as his 4th option).

Lebron's teams have been so stacked that he didn't lead his team in scoring for many playoff series, whereas while Jordan led his team in scoring for every series of his career, by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).

No all-time great led their team in scoring for every series of their careers, let alone by 15 ppg like Jordan.

Ultimately, Jordan scored 6 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg) - this is more valuable and controls the game better than Lebron's 2.5 defensive rebound edge (with less offensive rebounds), and 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers).
.

[bigkingsfan]

History says otherwised 1/9

[3ball]

So you are admitting this Warriors team is GOAT-level.

You're going to have to switch back to bashing Curry here when Curry picks it up, good thing he likes to go hide in a corner in the Finals while his teammates do his work or he could actually be a threat to MJ.


See that's the thing - Jordan couldn't AFFORD to not "pick it up".

He would've lost all 6 Finals if he had 2 games in a row with 9 and 14 points like Curry... Jordan never scored less than 22 in a Finals game.. His playoff low is 15 points and he has only 6 playoff games with less than 20 points (179 total games).

Curry isn't even his team's scoring leader for various series, whereas Jordan led his team in scoring for every series of his career, by an average of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920).. No all-time great led their team in scoring for every series of their careers, let alone by 15 ppg like Jordan.

Jordan also led his team in passing - he led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49).. Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the best performance and biggest load ever carried.. It's not even close.
.

[GINOBILI!]

no, all the sudden Dray/Clay/Iggy are just spot up shooters who can't create for themselves and Lebron would need MORE HALP
Yep, and the offense would overall be stagnant.

[3ball]

History says otherwised 1/9


If Jordan had a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option like Lebron did, and the 2nd best three-point shooter ever as his 4th option, he would've won even MORE rings than he did.

You're forgetting that no all-time great led their team in scoring for every series of their careers, let alone by 15 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) like Jordan.. Let that sink in.. Jordan also led his team in passing - he led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49)..

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the best performance and biggest load ever carried.. It's not even close.

[bigkingsfan]

If Lebron had multiple DPOY candidates on this team, he would even win more rings.

[andgar923]

The ball would only move 2 times if the Warriors had Bron.

[AirTupac]

Brons legacy is really taking a hit.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron doesnt want to replace Curry, most likely he will join Curry instead.

[3ball]

If Lebron had multiple DPOY candidates on this team, he would even win more rings.


Rodman didn't make ANY all-defensive teams in 1997 or 1998..

His last good year was 1996.. He wasn't even a starter in 1998 playoffs.. And in 1997 playoffs, he averaged 4 points and 8.4 rebounds, which forced Jordan to go down low and grab 7.9 rebounds - Jordan ended up leading the Bulls in points, assists, steals, blocks, and almost rebounds in those playoffs.. (btw, he led his team in scoring by 13 ppg).

Also, nearly ALL championship teams have great defense - so among championship teams, OFFENSE is the differentiating factor, and the Bulls had the best offenses ever based on ORtg.. The biggest factor in their offense was Jordan's goat scoring load, which was achieved in an optimal fashion (off-ball) that maximized teamwork and brand of basketball.

[bigkingsfan]

Where was his optimal offense and teamwork during 1/9

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Their spacing would be a hell of a worse, that's for sure.

Idiots are claiming Steph is having a "bad finals", but his presence ALONE makes his team who they are. A big reason Draymond is gonna have a whale of a series...is because Cleveland is overplaying Curry.

[3ball]

Where was his optimal offense and teamwork during 1/9


In the 80's, Jordan's supporting cast was like today's Sixers, but imagine if they were in the Western Conference and playing the Warriors, Spurs, or OKC in the first round.

Think about it - Lebron gets thoroughly destroyed by Spurs/Warriors even though he has good supporting casts (Wade/Bosh and Kyrie/Love).. Imagine if he played Spurs or Warriors in the first round with a Sixers-type supporting cast.

[bigkingsfan]

Imagine if ordan could lead those putrid cavs team to 60+ wins and final appearances. Ain't happening.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Imagine if ordan could lead those putrid cavs team to 60+ wins and final appearances. Ain't happening.

If Mike had squads entirely built around his skillset, not only would dude have made more finals BUT he would also have more rings.

BTW, what's up with this "ordan" nonsense?

You do realize Jordan had a better 'J' than LeBron, right? Clown. :oldlol:

[bigkingsfan]

If......... :oldlol:

[kamil]

Would Jordan ever win without Pippen? :eek:

Would LeBron* win without collusion?! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif


3-point shooters like Curry provide better spacing



Not sure I agree - 3-point shooters only cause a single defender to hug them on the perimeter, which doesn't do anything BY ITSELF - it takes the entire Warrior team shooting 3-pointers TOGETHER to provide floor-spacing.

Otoh, when a dangerous rim attacker is on the floor, ALL defenders must cheat off their man (see Isiah Thomas above), which leaves 3-point shooters and other teammates more open than otherwise.. This is basketball 101.

Essentially, 3-point shooters need teammates to help them space the floor, whereas a single rim attacker frees up teammates all by themselves, by forcing the entire defense to cheat off their man.

However, the problem is that Lebron isn't a devastating rim attacker anymore - defenders can stay in front of him and force him to use the forearm.. More importantly, Lebron CAN'T SHOOT from midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17) or 3-point land.. When the #1 option can't shoot, that means the team must GRIND OUT possessions - and his broke jumper can't GET HOT, so opponents don't need to make as many adjustments to prevent that, and it reduces his team's ability to explode and overwhelm teams.

[3ball]

You do realize Jordan had a better 'J' than LeBron, right?



Jordan had a better jumpshot than Steph Curry too - from midrange and inside 20 feet - his efficiency was better on 6 times the volume:




Overall midrange % (all shots inside the 3-point line but outside the paint)

JORDAN 1997:. 48.9%, 1202 fga
CURRY.. 2015:. 41.1%, 285 fga
CURRY.. 2016:. 42.5%, 200 fga



........................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..................Curr y 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)............ Curry 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/) <--- link to nba.com data

5-9 ft.......... 49.2%, 126 fga........... 40.3%, 72 fga.......... 48.6%, 72 fga

10-14 ft....... 51.5%, 466 fga........... 52.9%, 85 fga.......... 50.9%, 57 fga

15-19 ft....... 49.5%, 594 fga........... 43.9%, 132 fga........ 37.3%, 102 fga
.

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan used always claim his hands were bigger, but they weren’t. Scottie was very blessed down below. And that killed Michael. Johnny said, “you should have seen the girls pippen had waiting for him everywhere we went. Madonna used to pick him up in a limo with a hot tub every time we went to L.A. Michael used to tell Madonna he could satisfy her better, to which Madonna would tell him “not a chance.”

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Unbelievable from midrange, 3ball, just as I expected. Don't think I compared him to Curry but an interesting post nonetheless.

Too bad we don't have midrange stats for Bird, Bernard King and guys like Alex English and Adrian Dantley. Those guys were murder from in-between.

[3ball]

Unbelievable from midrange, 3ball, just as I expected. Don't think I compared him to Curry but an interesting post nonetheless.

Too bad we don't have midrange stats for Bird, Bernard King and guys like Alex English and Adrian Dantley. Those guys were murder from in-between.


Those guys were insane from midrange - some of those guys scored MOST of their points from midrange, which were often highly contested.. If we had those stats, they would show that good midrange efficiency was standard among players back then, even more than good 3-point shooting is standard for players in today's era.

In Lebron's case, he can't shoot from midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17) or 3-point land, so his team must GRIND OUT possessions.. Also, his broke jumper can't GET HOT, so opponents don't need to make adjustments to prevent that (double-teams), and it reduces his team's ability to explode and overwhelm teams.

[Jasper]

Kerr' does NOT have an offense.

Its called gun away, air ball or not , shoot shoot shoot.

They typically out shoot their opponents by 10-15 shots a game.

Do the math :D

[Marchesk]

Where was his optimal offense and teamwork during 1/9

He was still perfecting his navigational efficiency and off ball shooting.

[Cap'n Obvious]

This is just a hypothetical question that we cannot know for sure.

[Lakernation92]

no, all the sudden Dray/Clay/Iggy are just spot up shooters who can't create for themselves and Lebron would need MORE HALP

This.