Lebron's effect on Big Men

[ripthekik]

I found some interesting stats:

Let's first visit Chris Bosh:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html

You'll see that in 2010, before playing with Lebron, he was averaging:
24 ppg, 10.8 rpg, shooting 51.8% from the field.
The following year, joining Lebron at Miami in 2011, he averaged:
18.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, shooting 49.6% from the field.
Finally, when Lebron left for the 2014-15 season, Bosh averaged:
21.1 ppg, 7 rpg, shooting 46%

Next, Let's take a look at Kevin Love:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html

Before joining Lebron in Cleveland, with the Wolves in 2014 he averaged:
26.1 ppg, 12.5 rpg, and 4.4 apg
After joining Lebron in Cleveland in 2015, he started to average:
16.4 ppg, 9.7 rpg, and 2.2 apg

NOW, very clear drop-offs from when they started playing with Lebron. Usually, big men's numbers improve when they join a play-maker, as evidenced from Big men playing with Chris Paul, Steve Nash, etc. So whatever is going on here? They become shells of their former selves... I didn't make up the number, guys, take a look yourselves..

What's worse is that Bosh's numbers went up as soon as Lebron left... If Kevin Love got traded or Lebron left.. we are sure to see him play like an allstar again.. so What's going on here?

[Akrazotile]

How many playoff series wins did they lead teams to without LeBron?

[SouBeachTalents]

Very impressive numbers. Can't imagine how they did in the playoffs those years. Please list those as well

[FKAri]

Bosh was putting up monster numbers and W's in the playoffs in Toronto right, dumbass? :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Those guys were great at putting up big numbers as first option on 35-win teams

[Gileraracer]

Everyone knows, Lebron makes his teammates worse. That's why, according to his stans, he never has enough help

[Prime_Shaq]

Yeah his numbers dropped when he went from the first option to a third option. No shit.

[ripthekik]

What's funny is that when you look at other big men stats, they don't drop.

Look at Pau Gasol:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

Check his stats from when he was in Memphis, and when he started playing with Kobe. If Kobe was such a ball-hog and had such high usage of the ball, surely Pau's stats would dropped, like the big men's with Lebron did right? Wrong.

Pau's PPG remained the same, in fact, his rebounds rose every year, as well as blocks and other stats too.

[r15mohd]

ripthekik back from the dead - how ironic this time of the year :hammerhead:

[SpaceJam]

What's funny is that when you look at other big men stats, they don't drop.

Look at Pau Gasol:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

Check his stats from when he was in Memphis, and when he started playing with Kobe. If Kobe was such a ball-hog and had such high usage of the ball, surely Pau's stats would dropped, like the big men's with Lebron did right? Wrong.

Pau's PPG remained the same, in fact, his rebounds rose every year, as well as blocks and other stats too.

Kobe helped those offensive rebound numbers :oldlol:

[3ball]

.
Lebron achieves his stats by lowering his teammates' PPG and APG.

Specifically, he turns them into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing):



................................................AP G, ASSIST %....... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (2015):..... 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

[3ball]

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)


FYI...

Pippen with... Jordan 91'-93':...... 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen w/out Jordan 94'-95':...... 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen with... Jordan 96'-98':...... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)

[Wally450]

Yeah his numbers dropped when he went from the first option to a third option. No shit.


Shhh, don't want to mess with OP's agenda.

[plowking]

What's funny is that when you look at other big men stats, they don't drop.

Look at Pau Gasol:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

Check his stats from when he was in Memphis, and when he started playing with Kobe. If Kobe was such a ball-hog and had such high usage of the ball, surely Pau's stats would dropped, like the big men's with Lebron did right? Wrong.

Pau's PPG remained the same, in fact, his rebounds rose every year, as well as blocks and other stats too.

Why did Gasol's numbers jump when he left the Lakers and went to Chicago?

And his scoring went down from his last two years in Memphis to when he went to Lakers.

[ShawkFactory]

Haven't threads EXACTLY like this been made for the past 5 years?

Say something new.