Again.. Let's compare

[3ball]

.
The rules say that Iggy can't "affect a player's movement" in any way by hand-checking - easy game:


https://media.giphy.com/media/Nk5px4380siVa/giphy.gif



Otoh, Jordan's movement is significantly impeded by legal hand-checking - hard game:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/V2-pAN.gif



Also, Lebron enjoys a wide open paint on every possession due to 3-point shooting teammates and defensive 3 seconds:


https://media.giphy.com/media/SBoU7XAFaW4nK/giphy.gif



Otoh, Jordan faced a packed paint because he didn't have 3-point shooting teammates and paint-camping was legal:


http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2015/B_wITa.gif



It couldn't be clearer - Jordan played in a tougher environment - today's game looks like child's play with the wide open spacing and hands-off defense.. It's a joke..

That's why most pundits, coaches and also current or former players say Jordan would average 40 in today's game.
.

[plowking]

You said there is no handchecking now, but then the second GIF clearly shows Draymond handchecking LeBron...

:oldlol:

[3ball]

You said there is no handchecking now, but then the second GIF clearly shows Draymond handchecking LeBron...

:oldlol:
Hand-checking means "impeding" the offensive player's "forward movement", as I mentioned multiple times in the OP.

That's what the rule says - "impeding" a ballhandler's forward movement is no longer allowed.

The Jordan gif shows Rodman impeding his progress with hand-checking, whereas Draymond isn't - he's just touching Lebron with his hand, which is fine - but the moment Draymond pushes a little bit and impedes, it's a foul.

That's the rule - the defender cannot "impede" the ballhandler's forward movement, which is WEAK AS FUCC

[fourkicks44]

You said there is no handchecking now, but then the second GIF clearly shows Draymond handchecking LeBron...

:oldlol:

For the most part, in theory I agree with 3Ball, However I actually noticed that through out all of tonight's game there was a lot of hand checking getting let go by the refs. Sorta reminded me of the early 90's. Seems they just didn't want to call it during the Finals. I guess traditionally the game is harder in the Finals

Physicality has stepped up in this series. You can see how it is affecting Curry. This is not the regular season and he is feeling it the most.

[Smoke117]

Curry > LeBron > Kobrick > jordan

[3ball]

For the most part, in theory I agree with 3Ball



This is pasted directly from NBA.com:



Hand Checking:

A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket and the offensive player has his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm).

http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html


So the rule says that defenders can't "affect the opponent's movement" in ANY way (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm) - that's actually FAR more restrictive than "impeding"..

Will edit the OP to reflect the more restrictive nature of the rule.






However I actually noticed that through out all of tonight's game there was a lot of hand checking getting let go by the refs. Sorta reminded me of the early 90's.


The 90's playoff basketball was far more physical than this - it's not even close.

Greater physicality was facilitated by defenders being in much closer proximity due to the lack of 3-point shooting..

Go back and watch some footage to refresh your memory - it was a completely different, more physical game - they didn't even have flagrant fouls back then

[fourkicks44]

[QUOTE=3ball]This is pasted directly from NBA.com:


[INDENT]Hand Checking:

[I]A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket and the offensive player has his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court [color="red"]as long as it does not affect the opponent

[Sarcastic]

Curry > LeBron > Kobrick > jordan


Dumbest shit you ever said.


And that's saying something.

[plowking]

Hey 3ball, go have a look at the handchecking rule when Jordan played and what it said about impeding progress to the ring and get back to me. :oldlol:

[3ball]

1978-79:

• Clarification added to prohibit hand-checking through “rigid enforcement” of rule allowing a defensive player to retain contact with his opponent so long as he does not impede his opponent’s progress.



Hey 3ball, can you look up the handchecking rule and what it said about impeding progress to the ring



Forearms were allowed to "impede progress" until 1997-1998 season:



1997-98:

• A defender will not be permitted to use his forearm to impede the progress of an offensive player who is facing the basket in the frontcourt.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html




With regards to hand-checking, the "impeding progress" ban instituted in 1979 still allowed players to maintain contact via hand or forearm anywhere on the court, and also "reroute" or "hold up an offensive player in going from point A to point B" - these things weren't banned until 2001:



2000-01:

• No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.

• Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.




In 2005, the NBA decided to "curtail" hand-checking (enforce the aforementioned 2001 ban on contact above the foul line) and instituted a new defensive 3 second rule meant to "open up the game":



2004-05:

• New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.




The crackdown on hand-checking included banning all contact other than "momentary touching" and all contact that affected any aspect of "movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm)", as shown on the NBA.com "misunderstood rules" page, updated January 2012:



Hand Checking:

A defender may momentarily touch an oppopent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm).

http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html




The new defensive 3 seconds rule that was meant to "open up the game" didn't allow defenders to remain in the paint unless they were within "armslength" of an offensive player while "moving along with the offensive player":



Defensive Three Seconds:

A defensive player is not allowed inside the key area for more than three seconds unless he is guarding the player with the ball or is actively guarding any opponent. To be considered actively guarding, a defender must be within an arms length of an opponent. If an offensive player moves through the key, the defender must be within an arms length, and also move along with the offensive player. He can not just stand there and put his arms out to get a new three second count.

http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html


Today's "armslength" requirement for paint defenders is the opposite of a zone and the strictest defense possible outside of having players stand shoulder-to-shoulder.
.

[ShawkFactory]

[QUOTE=3ball]This is pasted directly from NBA.com:


[INDENT]Hand Checking:

[I]A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket and the offensive player has his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court [color="red"]as long as it does not affect the opponent

[PP34Deuce]

There are definitely better 3 point shooters than midrange shooters.

Defenders pack inside the 3 point line because maybe 1 guy on the floor was a good 3 point shooter back then. Nowadays, teams have 2-3 guys that can hit the 3.

Emphasis on the 3 ball leads to spacing. Those were incredible finishes that Jordan did and he would do them in todays game even more.

But that defender was clumsy in footing and if you think a stronger Lebron couldn't drive on that, you're mistaken.

[3ball]

Emphasis on the 3 ball leads to spacing. Those were incredible finishes that Jordan did and he would do them in todays game even more.


He would finish much easier at the rim in today's game because defenders are helping from outside the paint due to 3-point shooting.. So he wouldn't NEED all the dipsy doo's you saw him do, because the defenders can't wait in the paint like they used to and there are simply less paint defenders than before.





But that defender was clumsy in footing and if you think a stronger Lebron couldn't drive on that, you're mistaken.


"That defender" was back-to-back DPOY Dennis Rodman.. :oldlol:

Jordan averaged 31 ppg on 48% during the 1989-1991 playoffs against a combination of all-time great defenders Dumars and Rodman, as well as every-possession (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210) double teams due to the Jordan Rules.

[jstern]

There are definitely better 3 point shooters than midrange shooters.

Defenders pack inside the 3 point line because maybe 1 guy on the floor was a good 3 point shooter back then. Nowadays, teams have 2-3 guys that can hit the 3.

Emphasis on the 3 ball leads to spacing. Those were incredible finishes that Jordan did and he would do them in todays game even more.

But that defender was clumsy in footing and if you think a stronger Lebron couldn't drive on that, you're mistaken.
Are you referring to Dennis Rodman?

That always breaks my heart, as someone who has kind of copied Jordan's footwork, and know how genius they are, and their subtleties, and effectiveness. And how then how people who are not aware think that the defender was just bad, because Jordan didn't dribble 15 times.

[diamenz]

ya but... that was twenty years ago.

[Prometheus]

Jordan was better than LeBron, right?