Lets Be Real: Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan > LeBron On GOAT List

[Soundwave]

Seriously how can LeBron be ranked over these guys with only 2 titles (even Wade has 3)?

Shaq has 4, Kobe has 5, Duncan has 5, all of them double what LeBron has.

On top of a likely 2/7 Finals record.

Lets be real, LeBron has no business in the top 5 GOAT list right now, Steph Curry will have 2 titles likely by the end of the week too.

LeBron is not top 3, not even top 5, IMO Shaq, Duncan, Kobe should be above him, that doesn't even factor in Jordan and KAJ who are stone cold locks above him, you also have to have Russell/Wilt in there somewhere probably and then Magic/Bird also.

I'm sorry but 2 titles, and 2/7 resume doesn't get you into the exclusive VIP club of the top 5, nice try, but try again.

[Showtime2001]

Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan are above LeChoke.

Water is wet.

[Mr Feeny]

Let's be real Curry, Bron, Duncan and Shaq are all top 10 while Kobe is 12:lol

[riseagainst]

Water is wet
Fire is hot
Ice is cold
Lebron is a choker

[Soundwave]

Let's be real Curry, Bron, Duncan and Shaq are all top 10 while Kobe is 12:lol

I'm not Kobe fan, but he has 5 titles at the end of the day and a 2/3 record in the Finals on his own (if you want to discount the Shaq years).

I'm sorry, but 2 titles and 2/7 does not get you above that. It's just not good enough.

[tmacattack33]

Anybody who seriously thinks losing in the Finals is worse than losing in an earlier playoff round or not making the playoffs at all doesn't get to have a vote for the GOAT bball player lists.

[Showtime2001]

Anybody who seriously thinks losing in the Finals is worse than losing in an earlier playoff round or not making the playoffs at all doesn't get to have a vote for the GOAT bball player lists.
There's nothing impressive about making the finals in the Leastern conference.

[Mr Feeny]

I'm not Kobe fan, but he has 5 titles at the end of the day and a 2/3 record in the Finals on his own (if you want to discount the Shaq years).

I'm sorry, but 2 titles and 2/7 does not get you above that. It's just not good enough.

I'm sorry I don't speak team accomplishments.

And Curry has achieved more in 2 years than Kobe did in 20:oldlol:
Doubled Kobe's entire careers worth of mvps too.

It is what it is my G! Curry slays all!:rockon:

[Soundwave]

Anybody who seriously thinks losing in the Finals is worse than losing in an earlier playoff round or not making the playoffs at all doesn't get to have a vote for the GOAT bball player lists.

Sorry having a losing record in the Finals is a massive hit on one's legacy, but even if it isn't, he only has *two* whopping titles.

Why should he put over someone like Shaq who was unreal at his peak at has 4?

I'm "checking his stats", and they're saying GTFO of the top 5.

[Mr Feeny]

There's nothing impressive about making the finals in the Leastern conference.

There's nothing impressive about missing the playoffs in your prime followed by 2 consecutive 1st round failures and 3 consecutive seasons of missing the playoffs on the way out :lebronamazed:

Why are you here anyways? This is a discussion of top 10 players. Your idol isn't even top 12. Stay out and let the big boys talk:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not Kobe fan, but he has 5 titles at the end of the day and a 2/3 record in the Finals on his own (if you want to discount the Shaq years).

I'm sorry, but 2 titles and 2/7 does not get you above that. It's just not good enough.

Again, this logic that LeBron making 4 extra Finals than Kobe as "the man" is a detriment to his legacy is pure stupidity

[NBAGOAT]

Lebron has a better peak and prime than all of them except Shaq so it's not ridiculous at all. By your logic, Wilt shouldn't be in the top 5 either with just 2 rings. Possibly the same for Bird who "only" has 3 but a lot of people would put him over all 3 guys you listed.

[Soundwave]

Again, this logic that LeBron making 4 extra Finals than Kobe as "the man" is a detriment to his legacy is pure stupidity

Yes it is a detriment, but bottom line is 2 titles simply isn't that impressive.

He has no case over Shaq or Duncan, and even as much as Bran-stans might want to change things, Kobe was a key part of the Lakers first 3 titles too and has 5 total.

The idea that LeBron should just be gifted a spot over them is laughable.

No f**king way.

[ArbitraryWater]

On one hand Golden State is the greatest team ever, on the other it's LeBron's fault that they're gonna lose.. its kind of a problem.

Its either GOAT performance for him or slander, because otherwise you wouldnt come to these conclusions, with his more than good finals in 2014 and 2015... and nobody in their right mind would begin to push blame for '07.

Its just so casual joe talk, man.

Here's the issue: LeBron's standards are held to top 3 all time but people criticise like he's top 15, Curry's standards are top 50 all time but people praise like he's top 10.

Kobe's standards are top 20 all time but people praise top 10.

Whole thing doesn't add up. Never has with LeBron. People talking with their emotions. He won't be properly appreciated until he retires.

[Showtime2001]

There's nothing impressive about missing the playoffs in your prime followed by 2 consecutive 1st round failures and 3 consecutive seasons of missing the playoffs on the way out :lebronamazed:

Why are you here anyways? This is a discussion of top 10 players. Your idol isn't even top 12. Stay out and let the big boys talk:lol
Meltdown.

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/f/images/2-7.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OHRGypjVFio/T1nlL7Kn-9I/AAAAAAAAAaw/GqyLZ6un5q8/s1600/2-7.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

On one hand Golden State is the greatest team ever, on the other it's LeBron's fault that they're gonna lose.. its kind of a problem.

Its either GOAT performance for him or slander, because otherwise you wouldnt come to these conclusions, with his more than good finals in 2014 and 2015... and nobody in their right mind would begin to push blame for '07.

Its just so casual joe talk, man.

Here's the issue: LeBron's standards are held to top 3 all time but people criticise like he's top 15, Curry's standards are top 50 all time but people praise like he's top 10.

Kobe's standards are top 20 all time but people praise top 10.

Whole thing doesn't add up. Never has with LeBron. People talking with their emotions. He won't be properly appreciated until he retires.

Curry and lebron are both top 10 players. Kobe is 13th probably.

[ArbitraryWater]

Curry and lebron are both top 10 players. Kobe is 13th probably.

since when have you jumped on this train? Is this some troll job?

[Mr Feeny]

since when have you jumped on this train? Is this some troll job?Do you not believe that he's almost definitely going to end up top 10?

2 MVPs and counting and 2 titles as lead dog?I'm saying just compare it with Wilt, Duncan etc etc.
He'll probably end up with 4 MVP's and 4 titles or so. Surely that would have him in the upper bracket?

[ArbitraryWater]

Do you not believe that he's almost definitely going to end up top 10?

2 MVPs and counting and 2 titles as lead dog?I'm saying just compare it with Wilt, Duncan etc etc.
He'll probably end up with 4 MVP's and 4 titles or so. Surely that would have him in the upper bracket?

Not really.. I thought so, but he again has not played like it in the playoffs.

Iggy probably is the FMVP so far, again the teams best +/-.

Curry? Most stacked team ever behind him, must be nice to reap all the benefits of its dominance.

[Euroleague]

I'd prefer prime LeBron to start a team with, over prime Duncan.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'd rather have prime LeBron to start a team than prime Duncan.

How would you rank all 4 to start a franchise?

[tmacattack33]

Sorry having a losing record in the Finals is a massive hit on one's legacy, but even if it isn't, he only has *two* whopping titles.

Why should he put over someone like Shaq who was unreal at his peak at has 4?

I'm "checking his stats", and they're saying GTFO of the top 5.

No, losing in the Finals is better than losing in round 3 or earlier.

Getting to the Finals is obviously a good thing and helps a players legacy.

[Euroleague]

Anybody who seriously thinks losing in the Finals is worse than losing in an earlier playoff round or not making the playoffs at all doesn't get to have a vote for the GOAT bball player lists.

It's obviously true that making the finals is better than not making the finals. That is a fact, and anyone saying otherwise is clearly retarded.

However, 2 for 7 in the finals (if that is where LeBron ends up) is absolutely awful.

Anyone not criticizing that finals record is also seriously retarded.

And let's not forget that if Ray Allen does not hit the biggest miracle shot in NBA finals history....LeBron would be looking at 1-8 right now.

Even that 2 for 7 should probably have an asterisk on it, as it would be 1 for 8 if not for the absolute most miracle shot in NBA finals, and maybe NBA playoffs altogether, ever.

[Showtime2001]

No, losing in the Finals is better than losing in round 3 or earlier.

Getting to the Finals is obviously a good thing and helps a players legacy.
Nope Kobe never got any props for losing in 2004 or 2008.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nope Kobe never got any props for losing in 2004 or 2008.

Props for losing the finals? Of course not, he was shit.. but he gets props for his amazing run to the '08 finals, why not.

[Showtime2001]

Props for losing the finals? Of course not, he was shit.. but he gets props for his amazing run to the '08 finals, why not.
Played like shit or not makes no difference losing is losing and making the Finals in the East is nothing to brag about.

[Euroleague]

How would you rank all 4 to start a franchise?

With Shaq I think it depends on how you look at the rules. If we are talking the old rules, from Shaq's prime, then I would want Shaq first. But if we are talking the new rules (the current NBA rules where big men are marginalized), then I would want Kobe first, then LeBron second, then Duncan third, and Shaq fourth.

I would take Duncan over Shaq under the current NBA rules.

So old NBA rules, the time when Shaq was dominant:

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Duncan

But under today's rules, Shaq could not have been close to as effective, so with the current rules:

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Duncan
4. Shaq

In today's NBA game, players like Kobe and LeBron are more important than big men. Since these guys kind of overlap in the different rules times when they played, I think you have to consider which rules we are talking about, as for the who you would pick to start a team.

[ArbitraryWater]

Played like shit or not makes no difference losing is losing and making the Finals in the East is nothing to brag about.

bye felicia

lol

I guess thats what I mean by casuals

[Soundwave]

With Shaq I think it depends on how you look at the rules. If we are talking the old rules, from Shaq's prime, then I would want Shaq first. But if we are talking the new rules (the current NBA rules where big men are marginalized), then I would want Kobe first, then LeBron second, then Duncan third, and Shaq fourth.

I would take Duncan over Shaq under the current NBA rules.

So old NBA rules, the time when Shaq was dominant:

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Duncan

But under today's rules, Shaq could not have been close to as effective, so with the current rules:

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Duncan
4. Shaq

In today's NBA game, players like Kobe and LeBron are more important than big men. Since these guys kind of overlap in the different rules times when they played, I think you have to consider which rules we are talking about, as for the who you would pick to start a team.

Shaq would demolish the current weak NBA, no one in the interior would even be able to slow him down.

There is no rule change that stops him from turning and dunking on some weak 6-9 fool in the modern NBA.

[Showtime2001]

bye felicia

lol

I guess thats what I mean by casuals
http://s29.postimg.org/a8mi6c26v/Mountrushmore.jpg

[IllegalD]

since when have you jumped on this train? Is this some troll job?

No. It's a meltdown. :yaohappy:

[NBAGOAT]

Played like shit or not makes no difference losing is losing and making the Finals in the East is nothing to brag about.

:biggums: wat in the hell, you actually said how you play doesn't even matter anymore. Well guess that confirms, Kobe's 06 and 07 seasons just don't matter then because **** context.

[Showtime2001]

:biggums: wat in the hell, you actually said how you play doesn't even matter anymore. Well guess that confirms, Kobe's 06 and 07 seasons just don't matter then because **** context.
http://s33.postimg.org/oenwwh1en/1377503004_399557286_640x440.jpg + http://ballerball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/western-conference-cover.png

vs

http://s33.postimg.org/ky7hrmixr/635791223433416000_AP_Cavaliers_Get_Started.jpg
+
http://sportsunbiased.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NBA-Eastern-Conference11.jpg

[Born Sinner]

Anybody who seriously thinks losing in the Finals is worse than losing in an earlier playoff round or not making the playoffs at all doesn't get to have a vote for the GOAT bball player lists.
Lebrick stans still spewing this bs :lol
Hey loser ass bitch, how bout winning the finals when you make it instead of losing. Stupid ****.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Water is wet

[feyki]

Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan are above LeChoke.

Water is wet.

Mercury is hot

Jupiter is big

Saturn is ring

Earth is breathe

Pluton is cold

Leballoon is Balloooonn .

[NBAGOAT]

http://s33.postimg.org/oenwwh1en/1377503004_399557286_640x440.jpg + http://ballerball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/western-conference-cover.png

vs

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/d14d3f57911d962d7b13d035a0e9d7e6b1356358/c=190-0-2539-3132&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2015/09/29/USATODAY/USATODAY/635791223433416000-AP-Cavaliers-Get-Started.jpg
+
http://sportsunbiased.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NBA-Eastern-Conference11.jpg

did you miss the last part about ****ing context, I was playing devil's advocate because you literally said "Played like shit or not makes no difference losing is losing" like context never matters.. Anyway making the Finals in the East is still more impressive than losing in the 1st round in the West no matter what era you're in.

[Showtime2001]

did you miss the last part about ****ing context, I was playing devil's advocate because you literally said "Played like shit or not makes no difference losing is losing" like context never matters.. Anyway making the Finals in the East is still more impressive than losing in the 1st round in the West no matter what era you're in.
https://m.popkey.co/268c58/grZAZ.gif

[stalkerforlife]

Water is wet.

The media and the NBA can only fool a fool.

[FKAri]

I'm not Kobe fan, but he has 5 titles at the end of the day and a 2/3 record in the Finals on his own (if you want to discount the Shaq years).

I'm sorry, but 2 titles and 2/7 does not get you above that. It's just not good enough.
Didn't make it to the playoffs in his prime. That's what shows he's more flash than substance. I still think he's tied with Lebron, who himself has flaws. I don't know who to put higher.

[Wade's Rings]

On one hand Golden State is the greatest team ever, on the other it's LeBron's fault that they're gonna lose.. its kind of a problem.

Its either GOAT performance for him or slander, because otherwise you wouldnt come to these conclusions, with his more than good finals in 2014 and 2015... and nobody in their right mind would begin to push blame for '07.

Its just so casual joe talk, man.

Here's the issue: LeBron's standards are held to top 3 all time but people criticise like he's top 15, Curry's standards are top 50 all time but people praise like he's top 10.

Kobe's standards are top 20 all time but people praise top 10.

Whole thing doesn't add up. Never has with LeBron. People talking with their emotions. He won't be properly appreciated until he retires.

Bron was horrible in the '07 Finals of course he deserves blame. We've discussed his '14 Finals before.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Didn't make it to the playoffs in his prime. That's what shows he's more flash than substance. I still think he's tied with Lebron, who himself has flaws. I don't know who to put higher.

Yeah that season where Kobe missed 20 games and had Lamar Odom (who missed more games than Kobe) Chucky Atkins and Chris Mihm as his big three is what shows he was more flash than substance :lol :lol

Kareem missed the playoffs two straight years in his prime while playing with HOFers, including a season where he played all 82 games.

[D. Toretto]

Yes, all of them are.

[MEB2kDeez]

Of course

[NBAGOAT]

Yeah that season where Kobe missed 20 games and had Lamar Odom (who missed more games than Kobe) Chucky Atkins and Chris Mihm as his big three is what shows he was more flash than substance :lol :lol

Kareem missed the playoffs two straight years in his prime while playing with HOFers, including a season where he played all 82 games.

let's be fair it was a big 2 of Odom and Caron Butler(you forgot him). I don't blame him for that season at all but admittedly it's one of the weakest seasons in his prime.

[ImKobe]

Can't even put the man above Hakeem the Dream after this series :kobe:

Hakeem won b2b Finals MVPs in his 30s, so did Kobe, so did Jordan (3 straight), even Kareem was winning Finals MVPs in his mid/late 30s playing on the same team with Magic...even Dirk had an all-time great championship run past his prime, Lebron is looking funny in the light because he isn't as athletic as he used to be and teams can now force him to shoot his broke ass jumper.

[HylianNightmare]

Agreed

[sportjames23]

On one hand Golden State is the greatest team ever, on the other it's LeBron's fault that they're gonna lose.. its kind of a problem.

Its either GOAT performance for him or slander, because otherwise you wouldnt come to these conclusions, with his more than good finals in 2014 and 2015... and nobody in their right mind would begin to push blame for '07.

Its just so casual joe talk, man.

Here's the issue: LeBron's standards are held to top 3 all time but people criticise like he's top 15, Curry's standards are top 50 all time but people praise like he's top 10.

Kobe's standards are top 20 all time but people praise top 10.

Whole thing doesn't add up. Never has with LeBron. People talking with their emotions. He won't be properly appreciated until he retires.

No, son. Just no.

[eliteballer]

Hakeem is also better than him. Those two runs in 94 and 95 were beyond what LeBron has shown in any playoff run.

[Cold soul]

Agreed. Those three players are above Lebron.

[TheOne]

Lebron has as many MVPs as those 3 conbined. There is no way he is worse than them all.

[Mr Feeny]

Tbf Duncan lebron and Shaq are all top 10 players however you rank them


Why a 12th ranked player is mentioned in the same sentence as these legends is beyond me:oldlol:
Kobe just isn't in any of their leagues:pimp:

[Showtime2001]

Tbf Duncan lebron and Shaq are all top 10 players however you rank them


Why a 12th ranked player is mentioned in the same sentence as these legends is beyond me:oldlol:
Kobe just isn't in any of their leagues:pimp:
2/7 is not top 10.

:yaohappy:

Kobe/Shaq/Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeChoke.

[SouBeachTalents]

2/7 is not top 10.

:yaohappy:

Kobe/Shaq/Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeChoke.

:lol

[Keno]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

lebron is higher than all 3 of them.

[AirBonner]

:lol
Savage :lol these lakers fans are an embarrassment to society.

[Nilocon165]

Can't even put the man above Hakeem the Dream after this series :kobe:

Hakeem won b2b Finals MVPs in his 30s, so did Kobe, so did Jordan (3 straight), even Kareem was winning Finals MVPs in his mid/late 30s playing on the same team with Magic...even Dirk had an all-time great championship run past his prime, Lebron is looking funny in the light because he isn't as athletic as he used to be and teams can now force him to shoot his broke ass jumper.
:kobe: :whatever: :rolleyes:

[Mr Feeny]

Hakeem is also better than him. Those two runs in 94 and 95 were beyond what LeBron has shown in any playoff run.

Hakeem, Duncan and lebron are all top 10 players and higher than your idol. :lol

[pauk]

No problem, as long as you are strict to your "its all abour rings" logic and dont contradict yourself.... ok?

Hence....

Your new top 10 (based on the 10 usual suspects) should then be:

1. Russell (11)

*MASSIVE GAP*

2. Kareem (6)
3. Jordan (6)
4. Duncan (5)
5. Magic (5)
6. Kobe (5)
7. Shaq (4)
8. Lebron (3)
9. Bird (3)
10. Wilt (2)

or if you REALLY want to take your "its all about rings" logic to the extreme:

1. Russell (11)
2. Sam Jones (10)
3. John Havlicek (8)
4. Tom Heinsohn (8)
5. KC Jones (8)
6. Tom Sanders (8)
7. Jim Loscutoff (7)
8. Frank Ramsey (7)
9. Robert Horry (7)
10. Cousy (6)

and then if you want to be strict to your "XofX in Finals" logic:

GOAT = John Havlicek (8 of 8 in Finals)






Do you agree or are you gonna disagree with this ranking & hence contradict yourself exposing your true agenda?

[Lebron23]

OP is a Bitch.

[Hoopz2332]

:oldlol:

[T_L_P]

If LeBron retired today he'd be in the same tier as Duncan and Shaq, but I'd still probably take him first.

[scuzzy]

Sorry guys, that debate ended years ago for both

the General Consensus is the voice of the masses

LeBron is undisputable Top 3, arguable Top 2 and knocking on GOAT's door

Its not worth wasting keystrokes over anymore

[red1]

this thread :roll:

[riseagainst]

Lebron is top 3 all time. It's not even debatable at this point.

[jlip]

If LeBron retired today he'd be in the same tier as Duncan and Shaq, but I'd still probably take him first.

This

[sdot_thadon]

:lol
Savage .:cheers:

[Hey Yo]

2/7 is not top 10.

:yaohappy:

Kobe/Shaq/Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeChoke.
Has this bitch ^^^ shown his face since the greatest comeback ever???

[Hoopz2332]

Has this bitch ^^^ shown his face since the greatest comeback ever???

:lol

[Prime_Shaq]

If LeBron retired today he'd be in the same tier as Duncan and Shaq, but I'd still probably take him first.
Yes, but I would still Shaq first.

[kamil]

If LeBron retired today he'd be in the same tier as Duncan and Shaq, but I'd still probably take him first.

No you wouldn't. Nobody that's ever played has stopped Shaq. Some have slowed him down, but not completely.

LeBron* on the other hand, has been embarrassed by role players.

[Smoke117]

If LeBron retired today he'd be in the same tier as Duncan and Shaq, but I'd still probably take him first.

I'd definitely take Lebron over Duncan, but not Shaq.