My friend Laz

[colts19]

Hey buddy, would you like to say your sorry for ever having Bron ranked higher than Bird. You have to admit that was one that you were wrong about. Not saying with his physical talent that he shouldn't be better than Bird, but he's not even close.

[LAZERUSS]

Hey buddy, would you like to say your sorry for ever having Bron ranked higher than Bird. You have to admit that was one that you were wrong about. Not saying with his physical talent that he shouldn't be better than Bird, but he's not even close.

I am certainly leaning that way.

BTW, a PEAK Bird was easily better.

I am almost ashamed to have ever claimed that Lebron was Top-10. He has actually dropped in the last week.

Who knows though...maybe he finally and miraculously put it together, and somehow win a ring this year.

But, as of right now...nope...not better than Bird.

[Nilocon165]

LeBeast

[colts19]

Thanks

[Da_Realist]

WHAT! Someone on ISH actually admitting he was wrong? :eek:

Props! :cheers:

[coin24]

Well said Laz


I've been saying for how long bran is more of a pippen and shrivels on the big stage. Also he's a stat padding pos:lol
People are finally starting to wake up

[LAZERUSS]

I am certainly leaning that way.

BTW, a PEAK Bird was easily better.

I am almost ashamed to have ever claimed that Lebron was Top-10. He has actually dropped in the last week.

Who knows though...maybe he finally and miraculously put it together, and somehow win a ring this year.

But, as of right now...nope...not better than Bird.

Of course, it was because of this post that Lebron has gone ballistic in the last two games. He obviously frequents ISH, and I set him off.

IMO, he is on the verge of moving into 6-8 in the all-time list (Shaq and Duncan territory.)

All thanks to me.

IF, he has comes up huge tomorrow night.

[Dray n Klay]

Wait Laz...so why didnt Wilt drop off your Top 10 after his '69 Finals?

[LAZERUSS]

Wait Laz...so why didnt Wilt drop off your Top 10 after his '69 Finals?

Same reason that Lebron is between 6-8 despite his '07 and '11 Finals. He was simply the most dominant player of his era.

BTW, as poorly as Wilt played in the '69 Finals, (the worst post-season series of Chamberlain's career BTW) he still outplayed Russell. And then he easily outplayed Russell in the game seven loss. Of course, if you would research the '69 Finals, you would find that it was Wilt's COACH, who shackled Wilt, and inevitably cost his team a title that season.

[LAZERUSS]

I am certainly leaning that way.

BTW, a PEAK Bird was easily better.

I am almost ashamed to have ever claimed that Lebron was Top-10. He has actually dropped in the last week.

Who knows though...maybe he finally and miraculously put it together, and somehow win a ring this year.

But, as of right now...nope...not better than Bird.

Who would have known?

All thanks to Lebron reading my post.

[Helix]

But, as of right now...nope...not better than Bird.


And STILL.....nope.....not better than Bird.

[Dray n Klay]

Damn, LeBron is better than Wilt now


4 MVPs 3 FMVPs 27.6 career PER > 4 MVPs 1 FMVP 26.1 career PER


:lebronamazed:

[LAZERUSS]

Damn, LeBron is better than Wilt now


4 MVPs 3 FMVPs 27.6 career PER > 4 MVPs 1 FMVP 26.1 career PER


:lebronamazed:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yep...they have put rules in place to LIMIT Lebron alright?

Let me know when they eliminate flopping.

And NOPE...not even CLOSE to Wilt.

[Dray n Klay]

27 ppg Finals scorer vs 18 ppg Finals scorer :confusedshrug:





So LeBron scores 50% more points in a era with 35% less possessions :biggums:

[aj1987]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yep...they have put rules in place to LIMIT Lebron alright?

Let me know when they eliminate flopping.

And NOPE...not even CLOSE to Wilt.
Yep. You're right. LeBron is somewhere around top 5 and Wilt, at best, is borderline top 10.

[Nilocon165]

LeBeast
LeBeast

[SouBeachTalents]

And STILL.....nope.....not better than Bird.

Dumbass :lol

[Helix]

Dumbass :lol


Well, if you think Lebron James is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was, then YOU'RE the dumbass.

[Mr Feeny]

Well, if you think Lebron James is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was, then YOU'RE the dumbass.

The entire planet thinks that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Well, if you think Lebron James is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was, then YOU'RE the dumbass.

Bird has a 'more skillz doe' argument but LeBron has accomplished basically everything Larry did, only with more consistency. Factoring in health and finals play? Should be obvious to most who the more durable and greater player was.

Debating who had the better PEAK could be interesting though.

[fourkicks44]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yep...they have put rules in place to LIMIT Lebron alright?

Let me know when they eliminate flopping.

And NOPE...not even CLOSE to Wilt.

Damn :oldlol:

Was there any flopping in Wilt's era?

When did flopping originate? Could be a goood case study.

[Helix]

Bird has a 'more skillz doe' argument but LeBron has accomplished basically everything Larry did, only with more consistency. Factoring in health and finals play? Should be obvious to most who the more durable and greater player was.

Debating who had the better PEAK could be interesting though.


Well, maybe Lebron HAS accomplished everything Bird did, but he's done it in a far weaker era. And I don't much care what "the entire planet" thinks. I saw Bird's entire career and I've seen Lebron's entire career. Give me Larry Legend.....the better basketball player.

[aj1987]

Well, maybe Lebron HAS accomplished everything Bird did, but he's done it in a far weaker era. And I don't much care what "the entire planet" thinks. I saw Bird's entire career and I've seen Lebron's entire career. Give me Larry Legend.....the better basketball player.
:roll:

:facepalm

Just no. LeBron > Bird. He literally has everything over Bird. Accolades, stats, advanced stats, etc.. There's literally no argument you could use to put Bird over LeBron.

Bird won a ring averaging 15/15/7 on 42% with 2 back to back 8 point games. LeBron put up 36/13/9 on 40% and his team got wrecked.

[Smoke117]

So you guys served in korea together?

[swagga]

I am certainly leaning that way.

BTW, a PEAK Bird was easily better.

I am almost ashamed to have ever claimed that Lebron was Top-10. He has actually dropped in the last week.

Who knows though...maybe he finally and miraculously put it together, and somehow win a ring this year.

But, as of right now...nope...not better than Bird.

god damn laz resorting to this :oldlol:, shit's hurting inside like a motherfukka tbh.

[Helix]

:roll:

:facepalm

Just no. LeBron > Bird. He literally has everything over Bird. Accolades, stats, advanced stats, etc.. There's literally no argument you could use to put Bird over LeBron.

Bird won a ring averaging 15/15/7 on 42% with 2 back to back 8 point games. LeBron put up 36/13/9 on 40% and his team got wrecked.


Per the bolded.....I see it the other way around. The mental aspect of the game is Bird hands down.....not even close. On top of that Bird was a better shooter, a better rebounder, and a better passer. As far as the accolades and stats go, once again, as I said before, Lebron has played in a much weaker era. But hey, if you want to believe that Lebron is a better basketball player than Bird was, be my guest. I simply don't agree. I'll take Bird.....hands down.

[aj1987]

Per the bolded.....I see it the other way around. The mental aspect of the game is Bird hands down.....not even close. On top of that Bird was a better shooter, a better rebounder, and a better passer. As far as the accolades and stats go, once again, as I said before, Lebron has played in a much weaker era. But hey, if you want to believe that Lebron is a better basketball player than Bird was, be my guest. I simply don't agree. I'll take Bird.....hands down.
LeBron is a better scorer, playmaker, and a significantly better defender. Bird played in a much better era? Yeah, ok. Lets also not forget this part: Bird won a ring averaging 15/15/7 on 42% with 2 back to back 8 point games. LeBron put up 36/13/9 on 40% and his team got wrecked.

Has a LeBron led team ever won a SINGLE series, let alone the Finals, which he playing that bad?

[swagga]

Per the bolded.....I see it the other way around. The mental aspect of the game is Bird hands down.....not even close. On top of that Bird was a better shooter, a better rebounder, and a better passer. As far as the accolades and stats go, once again, as I said before, Lebron has played in a much weaker era. But hey, if you want to believe that Lebron is a better basketball player than Bird was, be my guest. I simply don't agree. I'll take Bird.....hands down.

son bird had some horrible stinkers in KEY games which cost the celtics dearly. just because he trash talked a lot doesn't make him more mentally tough.

being a better shooter doesn't imply being a better scorer.
rebounding depends on the type of game (just watch 80s game and see how many bunnies were missed).
bird's passes are more spectacular imo but they needed to be because bird couldn't plow his way down the middle to need a simple layoff to a cutting big like lebron.
And then there is the defensive impact.
And longevity will also be an issue if it isn't one already.
And team composition, bird played on an ultra stacked team, lebron had some really shitty teams.
Opponent strength isn't that imbalanced tbh : the 80s lakers/pistons/76ers on hand and the record breaking GSW/duncan's spurs/big 3 celtics on the other hand. Then add kobe, okc, peak dwight and the realiable late 00s pistons. relative to team-strength one can argue taht lebron has seen more competition which is kinda crazy to think about it.

At the end of the day lebron just produces more and can cover more defensively. It's not a matter of aesthetics but a matter of results. Bird's game is more pleasing, especially from an old school standpoint but lebron is just a fuccking bulldozer with skills.

Besides '11 lebron has always dragged his teams beyond what was expected of them, can't say the same thing about bird (as a 80s and 90s fan).

Saying you're taking bird hands down makes you look like a fanboy tbh. Nobody serious would take bird "hands down". Just too many things lebron does better, you might take bird in some circumstances but hands down is pretty comedic.

[tpols]

Larry Legend still on top ...




http://i.giphy.com/lLAar2yC6CWpq.gif



too easy.

[Helix]

son bird had some horrible stinkers in KEY games which cost the celtics dearly. just because he trash talked a lot doesn't make him more mentally tough.

being a better shooter doesn't imply being a better scorer.
rebounding depends on the type of game (just watch 80s game and see how many bunnies were missed).
bird's passes are more spectacular imo but they needed to be because bird couldn't plow his way down the middle to need a simple layoff to a cutting big like lebron.
And then there is the defensive impact.
And longevity will also be an issue if it isn't one already.
And team composition, bird played on an ultra stacked team, lebron had some really shitty teams.
Opponent strength isn't that imbalanced tbh : the 80s lakers/pistons/76ers on hand and the record breaking GSW/duncan's spurs/big 3 celtics on the other hand. Then add kobe, okc, peak dwight and the realiable late 00s pistons. relative to team-strength one can argue taht lebron has seen more competition which is kinda crazy to think about it.

At the end of the day lebron just produces more and can cover more defensively. It's not a matter of aesthetics but a matter of results. Bird's game is more pleasing, especially from an old school standpoint but lebron is just a fuccking bulldozer with skills.

Besides '11 lebron has always dragged his teams beyond what was expected of them, can't say the same thing about bird (as a 80s and 90s fan).

Saying you're taking bird hands down makes you look like a fanboy tbh. Nobody serious would take bird "hands down". Just too many things lebron does better, you might take bird in some circumstances but hands down is pretty comedic.


I'm certainly no Bird fanboy. I was a big Showtime Lakers fan throughout the 80's and I "hated" the Celtics. I certainly couldn't stand Larry Bird back then, but over the years I've come to respect him for just how damn good he was. Most of your text above is meaningless to me. Like I said previously, I saw Bird's whole career and saw him play hundreds of times. I've seen Lebron play hundreds of times. To me, yes, it IS hands down in favor of Bird. No way would I EVER take Lebron James over Larry Bird.

[LAZERUSS]

27 ppg Finals scorer vs 18 ppg Finals scorer :confusedshrug:





So LeBron scores 50% more points in a era with 35% less possessions :biggums:

Of course, the REAL Finals in Chamberlain's prime, the decade of the 60's, involved the Celtics vs. WILT. In Wilt's prime, he was in the Eastern Conference in seven of those 10 seasons...and faced the GOAT Dynasty in either his first, or second round, in SIX of them. Aside from his '69 season, when his incompetent COACH chose West and Baylor's offense over Wilt's (and was basically run out of town immediately after that Finals), Wilt played in the West in two more seasons. In one, his team was so bad that they didn't make the playoffs (and all Chamberlain could do was average 45 ppg, and lead the league in 15 of the 22 statistical categories of the time.)

So, again, excluding '69, when his coach preferred losing over having Wilt lead his team to a title...Chamberlain faced a Western Division foe exactly...ONCE...in the entire decade of the 60's. Not coincidently, all he could do was average 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and shoot .559 from the floor (in an NBA that shot .420 in that post-season), which included one game of 50 points, and a clinching game seven of 39-26 with 10 blocks. ONE SERIES.

How did a prime Wilt fare against the CELTICS in that decade? Again, let's forget the '69 Finals (in which he still outplayed Russell)...and he had post-seasons of 22-25-7 (on an injured leg in a seven game series); 22-32-10; 28-30; 29-28; 30-31; 31-27; and 34-27.

Furthermore, had Wilt been in the WD in his prime, he likely would have faced the Lakers several times in the WD playoffs. Russell built his post-season stats by feasting on the "center-less" Lakers in that decade. And yet, Chamberlain never had the opportunity to face them even ONCE! How dominant was Wilt against LA in the decade of the 60's? He faced them 86 times, and hung 42 40+ point games against them, including 19 of 50+, seven of 60+, and even two of 70+ (which included a 78-43 game.)

As for "pace"...hmmm, in Wilt's highest scoring Finals, he averaged 29 ppg on 24 FGA (and again, against RUSSELL.) How about Lebron's highest scoring Finals? 36 ppg on...33 FGA per game...and with single-coverage against a role player coming off the bench. Had Wilt taken 33 FGAs (and adjusted his already .517 FG% to '15 post-season levels...or .600), and he would have averaged 20 FGM...or 40 ppg, just on his FGAs. Then, can you imagine Boston single-covering a prime Wilt with a 35 year old Lovellette in his last season? Hell, a prime Chamberlain was pouring in 50+ ppg games against a prime Clyde.

And now, let's move a prime Lebron from his Eastern Conference, to the Western Conference in his career, shall we? Well, luckily for LeChoke, he would never have made the Finals in '07, nor '11, perhaps the two worst ever by a Top-10 player in his prime. Of course, he couldn't even get to the Finals in the weak ECF in '08 and '09, so he wouldn't have sniffed them in the West, either. That leaves '12, '13, '14, '15, and '16.

2012...a breeze to the Finals in the East. Didn't face one team in the ECF that would have beaten a WCF playoff team. Still, his team did beat the Thunder in the Finals...so I will give that to him.

2013. Who knows? One thing, though...his team wouldn't have gone 66-16 in the West. As it was, the East was a POS conference in which no team was close to the Heat. And yet they STILL struggled mightily against a Pacer team that would have been at the bottom of the West in the post-season. Then, they were a miraculous Allen shot away from losing to the Spurs in six games.

2014. Would never have come close to the Finals. The Spurs annihilated them in the Finals.

2015. Would never have sniffed the Finals, and were wiped out by the Warriors in the Finals.

2016. People forget that the Warriors were up 3-1, in a series in which 3" was a passive bystander. Then, a suspension to their best all-around player, an injury to their rim protector, and an injury to Iggy...the same role player who held Lebron to 39% shooting in the Finals. BTW, in their two regular season H2H's, a HEALTHY Iguodala held Lebron to 20.5 ppg on a .404 FG%.

Furthermore...the '16 Cavs had a cakewalk to the Finals. Put them in the WC, where they would have faced two of... either the Spurs, Warriors, or Thunder (the same Thunder team that dominated a much healthier Warrior team in the first four games of the WCF's, and were within a couple of minutes of beating them two more times)...and I seriously doubt that the Cavs would have made it thru that gauntlet to the Finals.

As for MVPs...interesting that Wilt "only' won four MVPs in the '60's, too. He was beaten out by Russell in '61 and '62...and yet was voted First Team All-NBA over Russell in those two seasons. BTW, compare Russell's team success, and Russell's stats ...with Wilt's team success, and Wilt's team success in BOTH '60 and '62...and explain to me how Russell won the MVP in '62, and not in '60, when a rookie Wilt ran away with it. The ONLY thing that changed from '60 to '62...was that Wilt was even far greater in his '62 season.

Russell also won the '65 MVP...BUT, in the EDF's, Chamberlain just CRUSHED him in EVERY facet of the game. Wilt took the same roster that had gone 34-46 the year before...to a game seven, one point loss, against a Celtic team that was it's peak (going 62-18.) In that series, Wilt outscored Russell, 30-16 ppg; outrebounded Russell, 31-25 rpp; outshot Russell from the field .555 to .440; outshot him from the line, .583 to .472; outshot him in TS%, .565 to .450; and even outblocked him in their known games, 35-22.

The reality was, Chamberlain was the best player in the league right from his first game (43-28-17 BTW)...and the MVP in his rookie season...thru the mid-60's when he ran away with the MVP three straight seasons, and even into Russell's last season (and Wilt's last season before he shredded his knee)...when Chamberlain dominated all three of the centers who finished ahead of him in the MVP balloting (Unseld, Reed, and Russell.)


Incidently, Wilt won a FMVP averaging 19 ppg, and would surely have won a FMVP in '67, had the award existed, in a Finals in which he averaged 18 ppg (and an opposing player played like Lebron in the '15 Finals... 41 ppg on a .408 FG%.)

Furthermore, put a prime Wilt in the Finals against the likes of a washed up Rik Smits in his last season; or a 35 year old Mutombo, whom Shaq was already to bloody to a pulp; or a never was in the 6-11 MaCulloch (who had a 4 year year career in which he averaged 6 ppg); or the complete bust in Erik Dampier....and well, needless to say that he would have put up staggering numbers.

[Hoopz2332]

Well, if you think Lebron James is a better basketball player than Larry Bird was, then YOU'RE the dumbass.

lebron has surpassed bird:cheers: :banana:

[Hoopz2332]

Larry Legend still on top ...




http://i.giphy.com/lLAar2yC6CWpq.gif



too easy.

nope

http://giant.gfycat.com/CircularAcidicArcticwolf.gif
http://i.giphy.com/doa6dqher5lni.gif

[swagga]

I'm certainly no Bird fanboy. I was a big Showtime Lakers fan throughout the 80's and I "hated" the Celtics. I certainly couldn't stand Larry Bird back then, but over the years I've come to respect him for just how damn good he was. Most of your text above is meaningless to me. Like I said previously, I saw Bird's whole career and saw him play hundreds of times. I've seen Lebron play hundreds of times. To me, yes, it IS hands down in favor of Bird. No way would I EVER take Lebron James over Larry Bird.

son, if you want to post something worth my time back it up with facts and proper argumentation. Otherwise you're just saying shit like "to me X is better than Y because I've seen them live". And guess what, I've seen half of bird's career (plus more on tape), almost all of jordan's games, and tons of lebron/kobe/shaq/hakeem/duncan spurs/bad boy pistons/knicks when they were decent and so on... when I argue something I still say "x because of argument y"

[Helix]

son, if you want to post something worth my time back it up with facts and proper argumentation. Otherwise you're just saying shit like "to me X is better than Y because I've seen them live". And guess what, I've seen half of bird's career (plus more on tape), almost all of jordan's games, and tons of lebron/kobe/shaq/hakeem/duncan spurs/bad boy pistons/knicks when they were decent and so on... when I argue something I still say "x because of argument y"


Son? You call me "son" and state you saw half of Bird's career. I saw half of Russell's career and almost three fourths of Chamberlain's. So I don't think you calling me "son" is quite appropriate.

[aj1987]

.......
So much bullshit in there. I'll just address a couple of points.

'13 - Miami won 78.8% of their games against EC teams and 83.3% against WC teams.

LeBron against EC teams - 26/8/7 on 56/37/76
LeBron against WC teams - 28/8/7 on 57/45/74

Pace - The Warriors played at a pace of 115 in '64. The Celtics were at 125. The '15 Cavs were playing at a pace of 92. The pace in the Finals was 91. Also, Ilt Chokerlain had a TS% of 50% in the Finals. ~3% higher than LeBron. I would also expect his efficiency to go down, the more his volume increases.

'14 - Yeah, they probably wouldn't have made the Finals, but you can't just displace teams like that, you utter retard. The WC has the vast majority of All-NBA and All-Def players. You can be sure AF, that LeBron would've had a better team, if he was in the WC.

'15 - The 52 win Cavs took the 67 win Warriors to 6 games and were up 2-1. They were extremely close to being up 3-0, if Kyrie wasn't injured. The Warriors won game 1 in OT. This was in a series, in which the Cavs were missing their 2nd and 3rd best players. IIRC, Shump was playing with a torn groin and a shoulder injury. Iggy won FMVP for holding LeBron to 36/13/9 on 40%. LeBron damn near won the FMVP and the Cavs didn't even win the Finals.

'16 - Cavs best the best team ever. That's a fact. Iggy "held" LeBron to 41/16/7/3/3 on 61% TS in G5. LeBron also led BOTH teams in EVERY major statistical category.

'11 - The '11 Heat do not make the Finals in the WC? Are you on crack? :biggums:

End of the day, LeBron has more rings and FMVP's than Ilt. 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% TS in the Finals. Ilt? 18 PPG. Lets not compare Chokerlain ever again to LeBron.

BTW, Wade passed up Ilt Chokerlain in total PO points in FEWER games played. As I said, Wilt should be compared to players ~15-20 like Wade, Dirk, etc..

Laz, you're way out of your depth here. You're basing your arguments on boxscores, since you've never actually seen Ilt play. Even those boxscores don't support your arguments. I'm pretty sure that you've never actually seen game of basketball as well. Kinda hard to evaluate players, when you don't even watch the games.


Son? You call me "son" and state you saw half of Bird's career. I saw half of Russell's career and almost three fourths of Chamberlain's. So I don't think you calling me "son" is quite appropriate.
Yeah, and I've seen everyone play from Mikan to LeBron. LeBron > Bird. :confusedshrug:

[Helix]

Yeah, and I've seen everyone play from Mikan to LeBron. LeBron > Bird. :confusedshrug:


Sure you have.

[swagga]

Son? You call me "son" and state you saw half of Bird's career. I saw half of Russell's career and almost three fourths of Chamberlain's. So I don't think you calling me "son" is quite appropriate.

half of russell's career wasn't even on TV tbh.
How old are you son?

[tpols]

http://i.giphy.com/doa6dqher5lni.gif

notice how in this no look pass, Lebron looked first, and then looked away.. with a wide open passing lane and wide open teammate as well..


now watch the master.



http://i.giphy.com/nydcqt9QlBF84.gif



Bird doesnt look until after.. a true no look pass, and through contested traffic to boot..

[colts19]

The first time I saw Bird was when he was his first year at ISU when he couldn't play, but he could practice. I went to see him and said at that time he was the best forward I had ever seen. I was right then and I am right now. Bron is a great player, but they played in different era's. The league now is full of one and done players that never really learned the fundamentals of the game. The 80's were a much tougher era. That physical toll on your body was something Bron could not have handled. It's clear that he is a physical specimen but he is not mentality tough. Plus he didn't have to ring chase. Plus his team didn't get beat by the largest margin in history in the finals by a team whose players were for the most part past their primes.

The lack of respect you people have for the past greats like Wilt, Bird is crazy. Last year I saw all kinds of post claiming Curry was better than MJ. Get serious people.

[swagga]

The first time I saw Bird was when he was his first year at ISU when he couldn't play, but he could practice. I went to see him and said at that time he was the best forward I had ever seen. I was right then and I am right now. Bron is a great player, but they played in different era's. The league now is full of one and done players that never really learned the fundamentals of the game. The 80's were a much tougher era. That physical toll on your body was something Bron could not have handled. It's clear that he is a physical specimen but he is not mentality tough. Plus he didn't have to ring chase. Plus his team didn't get beat by the largest margin in history in the finals by a team whose players were for the most part past their primes.

The lack of respect you people have for the past greats like Wilt, Bird is crazy. Last year I saw all kinds of post claiming Curry was better than MJ. Get serious people.

he was THE reason for 2 of the most remarkable comebacks in the history of basketball (finals vs spurs and warriors) and on of the GOAT upsets (vs detroit). How the FUCCK is he not mentally strong coming from behind against (overwhelmingly) superior teams in the ECF/finals?

then you go on and talk about people not respecting bird :biggums: y'all nigggas autistic :roll:

[KirbyPls]

The first time I saw Bird was when he was his first year at ISU when he couldn't play, but he could practice. I went to see him and said at that time he was the best forward I had ever seen. I was right then and I am right now. Bron is a great player, but they played in different era's. The league now is full of one and done players that never really learned the fundamentals of the game. The 80's were a much tougher era. That physical toll on your body was something Bron could not have handled. It's clear that he is a physical specimen but he is not mentality tough. Plus he didn't have to ring chase. Plus his team didn't get beat by the largest margin in history in the finals by a team whose players were for the most part past their primes.

The lack of respect you people have for the past greats like Wilt, Bird is crazy. Last year I saw all kinds of post claiming Curry was better than MJ. Get serious people.

The irony is that injury-probe Bird actually couldn't handle the no-defense 80s and its 110 pace. :lol

Bird's body gives out, in part because the hillbilly shoveled driveways in the off-season and punched people in bars during the playoffs, and it's Lebron who can't handle the mental and physical rigors of basketball? :lol :roll:

[colts19]

he was THE reason for 2 of the most remarkable comebacks in the history of basketball (finals vs spurs and warriors) and on of the GOAT upsets (vs detroit). How the FUCCK is he not mentally strong coming from behind against (overwhelmingly) superior teams in the ECF/finals?

then you go on and talk about people not respecting bird :biggums: y'all nigggas autistic :roll:
Coming from behind against the warriors after he cried and had green suspended. (and I hate Green). A warriors team that should have lost to OKC, if Westbrook had a brain and if Durant didn't choke almost a bad as Bron has in several of his games. Then Curry goes out and makes one stupid play after another to hand the game to Cleveland. Plus Kryie made most of the big plays at critical times in that game.
How if Bron is the greatest is it possible that he quit on his team several times in his career, I'm not saying got outplayed, he out right quit.How is it possible that he got beat by the largest margin in finals history. This on a team that he chose Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 and so on.

[colts19]

The irony is that injury-probe Bird actually couldn't handle the no-defense 80s and its 110 pace. :lol

Bird's body gives out, in part because the hillbilly shoveled driveways in the off-season and punched people in bars during the playoffs, and it's Lebron who can't handle the mental and physical rigors of basketball? :lol :roll:

I'll tell you what Bird could handle. Bad boy piston with Mahorne, Laimbeer and
Rodman taking cheap shots at him all series long. Bron would have been laying on the floor crying like a baby and none of those guys would have got suspended.

[aj1987]

Coming from behind against the warriors after he cried and had green suspended. (and I hate Green). A warriors team that should have lost to OKC, if Westbrook had a brain and if Durant didn't choke almost a bad as Bron has in several of his games. Then Curry goes out and makes one stupid play after another to hand the game to Cleveland. Plus Kryie made most of the big plays at critical times in that game.

You're talking about arguably the GOAT G7 and elimination game performer and you're calling him "mentally weak". FOH with your nostalgic BS. LeBron is better than Bird and it's a fact.

Kyrie made big plays? LeBron scored 11 of the teams 18 points in the 4th Q. Kyrie had the 3 and another 2 at the beginning of the quarter. LeBron also scored 8 straight points at one point and 6 straight when the Warriors were looking to pull away after taking a 4 point lead. Also, the block.

If we're making baseless statements, then I'd just say that Bird played in a shitty defensive era and that he'd struggle mightily today. See how easy that is?

EDIT: This is probably the twentieth time I'm posting this, and you retards still can't grasp the concept. Green was suspended because he accumulated more than the permissible number of flagrant foul points. It was an AUTOMATIC suspension.



How if Bron is the greatest is it possible that he quit on his team several times in his career, I'm not saying got outplayed, he out right quit.How is it possible that he got beat by the largest margin in finals history. This on a team that he chose Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 and so on.
Bird won a ring averaging 15/15/7 on 42% with 2 back to back 8 point games. LeBron put up 36/13/9 on 40% and his team got wrecked. LeBron gets crucified for his 8 point Finals game, but "clutch god" Bird had BACK TO BACK 8 point games in the Finals. Not a single of his Finals compares to LeBron Finals he had this season either.

The '14 Heat lost despite LeBron putting up 28/8/4 on 68% TS. Everyone outside LeBron were absolutely terrible and even then, the first game was almost won and Miami won G2 as well.

[LAZERUSS]

So much bullshit in there. I'll just address a couple of points.

'13 - Miami won 78.8% of their games against EC teams and 83.3% against WC teams.

LeBron against EC teams - 26/8/7 on 56/37/76
LeBron against WC teams - 28/8/7 on 57/45/74

Pace - The Warriors played at a pace of 115 in '64. The Celtics were at 125. The '15 Cavs were playing at a pace of 92. The pace in the Finals was 91. Also, Ilt Chokerlain had a TS% of 50% in the Finals. ~3% higher than LeBron. I would also expect his efficiency to go down, the more his volume increases.

'14 - Yeah, they probably wouldn't have made the Finals, but you can't just displace teams like that, you utter retard. The WC has the vast majority of All-NBA and All-Def players. You can be sure AF, that LeBron would've had a better team, if he was in the WC.

'15 - The 52 win Cavs took the 67 win Warriors to 6 games and were up 2-1. They were extremely close to being up 3-0, if Kyrie wasn't injured. The Warriors won game 1 in OT. This was in a series, in which the Cavs were missing their 2nd and 3rd best players. IIRC, Shump was playing with a torn groin and a shoulder injury. Iggy won FMVP for holding LeBron to 36/13/9 on 40%. LeBron damn near won the FMVP and the Cavs didn't even win the Finals.

'16 - Cavs best the best team ever. That's a fact. Iggy "held" LeBron to 41/16/7/3/3 on 61% TS in G5. LeBron also led BOTH teams in EVERY major statistical category.

'11 - The '11 Heat do not make the Finals in the WC? Are you on crack? :biggums:

End of the day, LeBron has more rings and FMVP's than Ilt. 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% TS in the Finals. Ilt? 18 PPG. Lets not compare Chokerlain ever again to LeBron.

BTW, Wade passed up Ilt Chokerlain in total PO points in FEWER games played. As I said, Wilt should be compared to players ~15-20 like Wade, Dirk, etc..

Laz, you're way out of your depth here. You're basing your arguments on boxscores, since you've never actually seen Ilt play. Even those boxscores don't support your arguments. I'm pretty sure that you've never actually seen game of basketball as well. Kinda hard to evaluate players, when you don't even watch the games.


Yeah, and I've seen everyone play from Mikan to LeBron. LeBron > Bird. :confusedshrug:

One-by-one for Ajackoff...

'13. The Heat played two-thirds of their games against the East, and one-third against the West. You can throw out two game samples, especially when you factor in the creampuffs that they faced in the East.

REALITY: Including the Heat, the East had TWO teams that won 50+ games. The West had FIVE. Including the Heat, the East had seven teams that won 40+, while the West had TEN. Oh, and the THREE WORST teams in the entire league, and by a considerably margin...ALL played in the East. NO WAY in Hell do the Heat go 66-16 in the West. They would have been lucky to win 60, and likely would have been around 55. Oh, and again, they were a miraculous Allen shot away from losing that series, 4-2. Of course, when the two played again the next year...well, Lebron stat-padded his way to the worst beating in Finals history.

PACE? There is NO such a thing as "pace." There are FGAs and FTAs...which result in POINTS. Furthermore, if you factor in "pace" you HAVE to adjust eFG%'s, as well. Bottom line...in the '64 Finals, the two teams combined to average 103.2 ppg per team, while in '15, the two combined to average 97.1 ppg.

TS%? First of all, you can safely ADD 2% to Wilt's career TS%'s. Why? Because he played in an era of "three-to-make-two", and "two-to-make-one. (as well as SINGLE foul shots.) His EFFECTIVE FT% was considerably higher than his ACTUAL FT%. Why? Because going 0-3 was the same as going 0-2; going 1-3 was the same as going 1-2; and going 2-3 was the same as going 2-2. Yes, they counted ALL FTAs, but the reality was, there was a significant difference in EFFECTIVE FT shooting. And no one benefitted from it more than Wilt. He was a relatively poor FT shooter, and had a HUGE volume. BTW, none of that takes into account his IMPACT from the line...which gave his teammates a TON of FTAs.

Oh, and let's compare Lebron's '15 Finals TS% of .477, with Wilt's '64 Finals of .498 shall we? Lebron's came in a Finals in which the two teams combined to shoot a TS% of .498. Wilt's came in a Finals in which the two teams combined to shoot .441. Lebron's TS% was two percentage points LOWER than the Finals average...while Wilt's was SIX percentage points HIGHER (and again...his EFFECTIVE FT% and TS%...would likely have added 2% more...or EIGHT percentage points above the Finals average.)

'14? They were CRUSHED by the Spurs (who should have beaten them in '13.) They would never have sniffed the Finals in '14 (and one of Lebron's highest efficiency Finals...BUT, with ZERO impact.)

'15? Same problem as '13 and '14 for Lebron. THREE teams, including the Cavs, that won 50+ games, and three more that won 40+. The West? Seven and nine. A Massive difference. So, instead of breezing thru the East as Lebron has done in his seven Finals...who know? Maybe only 2-3.

'16? Cavs did NOT beat the best team ever. Compare rosters of the Warriors with the '80's Lakers, Celtics, the Bad Boys in the late 80's, and the Sixers in '83...sorry, not even close.

Furthermore, Lebron was a passive bystander in the first four games. it was COMICAL. He would let his teammates shoot until...the games were decided. How about his game four? Talk about stats-padding. He was driving the lane in the last minute for easy layups, when the Cavs needed 3pt shots just to have a remote chance of catching up. In the last 46 seconds, Lebron took an open layup with his team trailing by margins of 98-89, 102-93, and 104-95. Incidently, that allowed Chokurry to add 8 points from the FT line in those last few seconds.

Game five...Draymond was suspended for this...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/18/are-the-nba-finals-rigged.html


Warriors All-Star Draymond Green was suspended for Game 5 after tapping LeBron James in the groin while the Cavaliers star stood over him. No foul was called during the game, but a retroactive flagrant foul was called, putting Green over the postseason limit for flagrants, and forcing Golden State to play a pivotal home game without him.

Clearly, that turned the series.

As for the Lebron-Iggy battles...yep...Lebron FINALLY put up ONE good game against Iggy. He barely hit 50% though....and coming into the series, he had shot .401 in his last eight H2H's against Lebron (BTW, basically playing him one-on-one.). His INJURY was HUGE in both game's six and seven. BTW, just how "clutch" was LeChoke down the stretch of that game seven...he went 0-4 from the field in the last four minutes. Fortunately for 3", ChoKurry was even worse.

None of that includes the Bogut injury, or ChoKurry putting up an epic choke job the entire series, but most certainly the worst game seven by a reigning MVP in league history.


'11 - The '11 Heat do not make the Finals in the WC? Are you on crack?

WTF? They were badly whipped by the much less talented Mavs in the Finals...in series in which both Lebron and Wade choked (Wade puked all over the floor in the clinching game six.) Again, they would NOT have made the Finals in '11 had they played in the WC.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...


End of the day, LeBron has more rings and FMVP's than Ilt. 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% TS in the Finals. Ilt? 18 PPG. Lets not compare Chokerlain ever again to LeBron.

BTW, Wade passed up Ilt Chokerlain in total PO points in FEWER games played. As I said, Wilt should be compared to players ~15-20 like Wade, Dirk, etc..

ONE MORE DAMNED time...Lebron has played in the POS Eastern Conference his entire career. A Prime Chamberlain played in the East almost his entire 10 seasons...in a conference that had the GOAT Dynasty. While Lebron shot .355 against the '08 Celtics...the ONE great defensive team in his Eastern career, a prime Chamberlain was shooting .500, .517, .555, and .556 against RUSSELL and his SWARMING teammates (I can, and have, provided articles in which Russell's TEAMMATES attested to that very point.)

And AGAIN...the NBA Finals in the decade of the 60's were... The Celtics vs WILT. Hell, Wilt single-handedly took essentially the same LAST PLACE roster he inherited in his rookie season, now only older and worse...to a game seven, two point loss against Russell's Celtics in the '62 EDF's. A peak Baylor, who averaged 41 ppg in the Finals...and a prime West ...TOGETHER...lost a game seven in the same Finals by three points. And Wilt was the only player in the 60's to beat the Dynasty...and he DESTROYED them when he did.

As I mentioned earlier...Wilt's "Finals" in the decade of the 60's...and the NBA Finals in the decade of the 60's...were almost always...the EDF's...when Chamberlain battled the GOAT Dynasty. And he did so with series of 22-25-7; 22-32-10; 28-30; 29-28; 30-31; 31-27[ and 34-27.

Lebron leading his Cavs over a decimated Warrior squad in the '16 Finals...with a narrow game seven win? How about comparing that with Wilt's '65 EDF's, when he took a 40-40 team, that had gone 34-46 the year before without him...to a game seven, one-point loss, against the 62-18 Celtics. In a series in which Chamberlain just annihilated Russell in EVERY facet of the game. 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, .555 eFG%, .565 TS%, and 7 bpg. In a post-season that shot an eFG% of .429 BTW.

The difference between the two series? Kyrie hitting the game-winner, and Wilt's teammate having his in-bounds pass under the Celtic basket stolen Havlicek.

Wilt was the best player in the league in the entire decade of the 60's. He won FOUR MVPs, but was cheated out of MVPs in '62, and '64...and even in '69...all while dominating those that finished ahead of him. Hell, Russell somehow beat him out in '61 and '62...and yet finished behind Wilt in the All-NBA First Team selections. In fact, in the decade of the 60's, Wilt held a 7-2 margin over Russell in First-Team selections...and slaughtered him in his H2H's in '63 and '65...the two years that Russell beat him out.


Bus-Rider Wade??? :roll: :roll: :roll:

First of all, in his ONE glorious moment...Bus-Rider won a FMVP with what was CLEARLY a RIGGED Finals. Think about this: During the regular season, Wade-the-Fade averaged 10.7 FTA per game. In the playoffs...a reasonable 10.9 FTA. How about the Finals? 16.1 FTA! Not only that, but in the last two games, both of which were clearly rigged... 25 and 21 FTAs! 21 in that last game, in which they won by 3 pts.

But, don't take my word for it. You can google the 2006 Finals...and all kinds of "Rigged" articles will come up...including this one...

http://www.thumpernewman.com/rigged_nba_games.htm


Game 5 2006 NBA Final Miami Heat vs Dallas Mavericks

David Stern decided that game 5 would be his chance to pay back all his sponsors. Dywane Wade who was a spokes person for Converse, Gatorade, T-mobile cell phones, Lincoln cars & whose Jersey is in the top 3 in sales was the benefactor . In total Wade went to the foul line 25 xs, There were 5 separate fouls on Wade in which he was never touched. The internet bloggers refer to them as the Phantom Fouls. Miami as a team went to the line 49 xs to Dallas 25 xs. Dallas finished with 6 more field goals 11 more rebounds & lost the game by one. Both of Dallas low post defenders were in foul trouble Diop fouled out Dampier finished with 5 fouls.



Then there was the laughable game six...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2zonUdXJkQ


Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...


End of the day, LeBron has more rings and FMVP's than Ilt. 27/10/7/2/1 on 57% TS in the Finals. Ilt? 18 PPG. Lets not compare Chokerlain ever again to LeBron.

BTW, Wade passed up Ilt Chokerlain in total PO points in FEWER games played. As I said, Wilt should be compared to players ~15-20 like Wade, Dirk, etc..

In the '72 WCF's, a 35 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, was outscored by a peak 25 year old Kareem, by a 34-11 ppg margin.

And yet...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

[QUOTE]In the post-season, the Lakers swept the Chicago Bulls,[92] then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks of young superstar center and regular-season MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly Lew Alcindor). The matchup between Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar was hailed by LIFE magazine as the greatest matchup in all of sports. Chamberlain would help lead the Lakers past Abdul-Jabbar and the Bucks in six games.[92] Particularly, Chamberlain was lauded for his performance in Game 6, which the Lakers won 104

[Dray n Klay]

Honestly Laz, NOBODY I repeat NOBODY thinks Wilt is better than LeBron after LeBrons 3rd ring



LOL an 18ppg Finals choker??

[tpols]

by god .. laz w/ the ultimate slays.. providing that context. listen up bron kiddies

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

Wilt's "scoring" in the post-season. First of all, no other all-time great sacrificed as much of their offense, as Wilt did in his career. I find it amusing that the "bashers" always use 30-22-18 (actually, 30-23-19) without CONTEXT.

How about this? Do you think Phil Jackson would have asked MJ to become a facilitator, and cut his scoring by 10 ppg or more? And do you think Jackson would have asked Shaq to play the HIGH POST? Yet, Wilt's COACHES asked Chamberlain to do both. And he complied.

A "scoring" Wilt averaged 33 ppg in his 52 post-season games...30 of which came against RUSSELL. In those 52 games, he had 11 of 40+...or 21%. He had post-seasons of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and 37 ppg. He had post-season series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. He had FOUR games of 50+, including THREE in "must win" games. He had "must win" playoff games against RUSSELL of 46 and 50 points. He had a "must win" Finals game of 45 (on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.)

Some idiots here have used Wilt's '67 playoff run as an example to rip his scoring. All Chamberlain did in that run, was put up series of 28-27-11 .617; 22-32-10 .556; and 18-29-7 .560. In the very first two games of the playoffs he scored 41 and 37 points (on a combined 35-54 shooting ...or 65%.) CLEARLY, had he NEEDED to, he could have scored FAR more. As it was, in his series clinching Final against Russell, he outscored Russell 29-4 (which is deceptive, since he had 22 at the half when the game was still close); outrebounded Russell, 36-21; outshot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5; outassisted Russell, 13-7; and even took the time to swat 7 shots. In the '67 Finals, he outscored Thurmond in five of the six games; outrebounded him in five of the six games; outassisted him five of the six games; and outshot him in EVERY game (and by a staggering .560 to .343 overall.) In the clinching game six win, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond by a 24-12 margin, outrebounded him by a 23-22 margin, and outshot him by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin.

Even after his knee injury in the '69-70 season, Wilt came back to hang the only 20-20- .600 Finals in NBA history ( 23.2 ppg, 24. rpg, and on a .625 FG%.)

I already mentioned it, but he outplayed Kareem in their '71 WCF's, and then by ALL accounts, outplayed him again in their '72 WCF's H2H. Time Magazine went so far as to claim that Wilt DECISIVELY outplayed KAJ. BTW, in their two series clinching H2H games... Wilt outshot KAJ from the floor by a .545 (18-33) to .383 (23-60) margin.

Oh, and in his six Finals, he collectively outshot his opposing centers (all in the HOF BTW)...by a .559 to .439 margin.


And for the idiots that claim that Wilt was a "choker"...

in his 23 "must win" playoff games, all he did was average 31.1 ppg (just behind Lebron's 32.6 and MJ's 31.3 ppg), with 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .540 FG%. In his 37 "must win" and "series clinching" games... 29.5 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .546 FG% (in leagues that shot about .435 in that same span.) All while destroying his opposing centers in every facet of the game.

The bottom line, though, was that Wilt did what was asked of him by his coaches...even against his better judgement (see the '69 Finals.)

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Finally...

Wade over Wilt?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A PRIME Chamberlain, and before his injury, was the best player in the game for the entire decade of the 60's. Again, his FOUR MVPs were deceptive, as he was robbed in '62 (the most disgraceful balloting in MVP voting history); '64, and even '69. And again, he destroyed Russell in his H2H's in '61, '62, '63, and '65, when Russell won the MVPs, as well as easily outplaying him in '69, when neither won it. And one more time...in the decade of the 60's, Wilt held a 7-2 margin over Russell in First-Team All-NBA selections.

He came in second (again, ROBBED) in two more. He had another third, two fourths, a fifth, and a seventh (nothing suspicious about this MVP balloting either...in a season in which he averaged 45-25...and crushed Red Kerr, who finished ahead of him by outscoring him by a seasonal margin of 43-19 ppg, including beatdowns by 60-21 and 70-14. Oh, and he had less first place votes than Terry Dischinger, who played on a 25-55 team.)

Let's go thru that again...

1. 1 7th
2. 1 5th
3. 2 4ths
4. 1 3rd (in his second to last season, and then he outplayed the MVP, a peak KAJ in the WCF's, and carried the second place finisher, West, who shot .325 in the Finals...en route to winning the FMVP.
5. 2 2nds (one which he averaged 50 ppg...and the other in a year in which Russell won it...and Wilt SLAUGHTERED him the EDF's.)
6. 4 1sts.

How about Wade-the-Fade?

In his highest balloting...ONE THIRD place. ONE. A THIRD place finish.
Then ONE 5th. ONE 6th. ONE 7th. TWO 10ths. ONE 12th.

The man was NEVER considered even remotely close as the best player in the league... at ANY time.

Scoring titles? Wilt with a 9-1 edge. How about the post-season? Wade had ONE post-season run of 30+ ppg (and in a five game series in which his team lost). Chamberlain? FOUR. How many 50+ point playoff games? Wilt with a 4-0 edge. Hell, Finals high game... Wilt 45, Wade 43.

Rebounding titles? :roll: :roll: :roll: Chamberlain with an 11-0 margin (and the reality was, Wilt was on his way to both another scoring and rebounding title in his '70 season, when he went down with his knee injury.) And Wilt is the GOAT rebounder in BOTH the regular season, AND post-season.

Assist titles? Yes, assist titles... Wilt with a 1-0 margin (and the two highest apg seasons between the two.) Post-season? Wilt led the entire post-season in '67 with a 9.0 apg average...Wade...nope, nowhere to be found.

Blocked shots? yes, Wade has been a good shot-blocker for his position...but, let's get real here...Wilt was the GOAT shot-blocker in BOTH the regular season, AND the post-season.

FG% titles? Wilt with a 9-0 edge. Oh, and the highest FG% in a season in NBA history. Post-season? Chamberlain with a 2-0 margin.

Defensive awards? Wade with 3 second place all-defense awards (in a position that includes two players.) Unfortunately for Wilt, they didn't have that award until his four seasons (and he was injured in one those)...and yet he STILL had TWO FIRST team all-defensive selections (and would surely have won DPOY in one of them had the award existed)...in a position that only had one selection.

Records?

Wilt literally holds HUNDREDS, and even THOUSANDS of NBA records (if you include "streak" records.) How about his POST-SEASON records? Most 20-20 games, most 30-20 games, most 40-20 games, most 50-20 games, and most 50-30 games. Most 20-20 post-seasons? Most 30-20 post-seasons. Most 35-20 post-seasons. Most 50+ point games in must win games. Most 20+ rpg post-seasons. Highest career rpg in NBA Finals history. Highest rebounding playoff game (41, and against RUSSELL BTW.) These lists are nearly endless.

Now, go ahead and give us the Wade NBA records.

Oh, and how about RULE CHANGES? Wilt was directly responsible for FOUR of them (including the elimination of the dunking of FTs...which he was capable of...and of which Tex Winter headed a committee to ban such "freakish activity" before Wilt ever stepped on the college floor.)

How about Wade? Please give me the "Wade Rules."

So, let's never mention Wade-the-Fade EVER again in the same sentence as Chamberlain. Wade is a borderline top-25 player (at best...right there with Pippen), while Wilt is easily Top-3, and has a case for GOAT (and please, don't bring up the night janitors who drew names out of hat in ESPN's latest "ranking.") If you want to use an ESPN ranking, use their '99 Sport Century, which had MJ at #1, Wilt at #2, Magic at #3, Russell at #4, and KAJ at #5. And no way does Lebron, Duncan, or Shaq come close, either.

[LAZERUSS]

Honestly Laz, NOBODY I repeat NOBODY thinks Wilt is better than LeBron after LeBrons 3rd ring



LOL an 18ppg Finals choker??

Had a prime Wilt faced the likes of a washed-up Smits in his last season; a 35 year old Mutombo whom Shaq was allowed to bloody to a pulp; a never was career 6 ppg scorer in MacCulloch; and a complete bust in Dampier...in four Finals, ... and his "18 ppg Finals" would have approached 30-40 ppg in those four Finals alone.

BTW, when I mentioned "bloody to a pulp"...I wasn't kidding...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

I counted at least FOUR offensive fouls in that sequence alone, as well as a full-blown charge.

BTW, regarding Lebrons' three rings (and Wilt's two)...Lebron was one Ray Allen 3pter, and one Kyrie 3pter away from "1-7." Meanwhile, Chamberlain was one bad inbounds pass, and one stolen dribble by two teammates...away from four rings. TWO shots, and TWO turnovers away from Chamberlain holding a 4-1 margin over Lebron.

[aj1987]

One-by-one for Ajackoff...
You come up with insults like a 5 year old. Just terrible. :facepalm


...
Again, the Heat had a significantly better record against WC teams than the EC teams. It's a FACT. As a matter of fact, LeBron always performs better against WC teams than EC teams, statistically. Usually has a better record against them as well.


...
Heat winning "55" is not "reality". That's just your retarded opinion.

FACT: Miami was on a 68 win pace against WC team.

That literally is a fact and a reality. Not Miami would've won 55. Learn english, dude.


...
I know that you're in denial, about Ilt playing in a garbage ass era and choking his ass off, but:

Pace
Pace Factor (available since the 1973-74 season in the NBA); the formula is 48 * ((Tm Poss + Opp Poss) / (2 * (Tm MP / 5))). Pace factor is an estimate of the number of possessions per 48 minutes by a team. (Note: 40 minutes is used in the calculation for the WNBA.)


...
Christ! I'm not even going to touch this. If you're just adding percentages and numbers you pulled out of your ass, lets increase LeBron's numbers by about 60% to factor in pace and the ridiculously hilarious level of play from that shitty era.


...
Once again, Chokerlain played in a garbage ass era, and you can safely increase LeBron's numbers by 60% to translate to that trash era. In short, LeBron would be putting up 50/20/15 on over 60%, if he played back then.

You still fail to comprehend the FACT that Chokerlain did it on significantly lower volume as well.


...
'14 - Yeah, they probably wouldn't have made the Finals, but you can't just displace teams like that, you utter retard. The WC has the vast majority of All-NBA and All-Def players. You can be sure AF, that LeBron would've had a better team, if he was in the WC.

Zero impact is what you get from Chokerlain. The two times he won, he was a bottom feeding scrub of a scorer. Overrated scoring "impact". Whenever he tried to score, his teams failed miserably.


...
Again, you retard. You can't just displace teams. The Warriors, Spurs, etc. have multiple All-NBA/All-Def level players. The EC teams have significantly fewer ones. The WC teams just have better talent. If LeBron was in the WC, he'd be one a significantly better team as well. How hard is that concept to understand?

Then again, once the Cavs made the Finals, they nearly took out the 67 win Warriors. They had a shot to go up 3-0 and were actually up 2-1. This is without LeBron's #2 and #3. Now imagine Chokerlain playing without West and Baylor on the Lakers. Dude wouldn't even make the PO's.


'16? Cavs did NOT beat the best team ever. Compare rosters of the Warriors with the '80's Lakers, Celtics, the Bad Boys in the late 80's, and the Sixers in '83...sorry, not even close.
2x MVP, steals leader, and All-NBA First

Runner-up DPOY, All-Def First, and All-NBA second

All-NBA Third

Runner-up 6th MOY and reigning FMVP

COY

The deepest bench in the league as well.


Furthermore, Lebron was a passive bystander in the first four games. it was COMICAL. He would let his teammates shoot until...the games were decided.
It's comical how you actually do not watch the games, but decide to comment on them. LeBron put up 32/11/6/2/1 on 54% in G4. But yeah, he was a "passive bystander" though. Watch the games before you comment on them. I know it's kinda hard as you've never actually seen a game before, but trust me. It's more fun can going over endless pages of numbers.



...
Lets seen. LeBron's shot wasn't falling and Kyrie wasn't taking any 3's either. LeBron did what he though was best. Drive and hope for a foul. That was the game when the Cavs complained about LeBron not getting FT's at ALL.

"He never gets calls," Tyronn Lue said of James during his postgame press conference. "(He) attacks the paint every single play. He doesn't get a fair whistle all the time because of his strength and because of his power and guys bounce off of him. But those are still fouls, and we weren't able to get them. But we've got to play through officiating."

http://www.sportal.co.nz/nba/game-4-nba-finals-lebron-james-fouls-free-throws-tyronn-lue-richard-jefferson/p7yl8kbwh9vj12nc8g7gbfpbj

Of course, you would know that if you actually follow the sport, instead of jerking off to a stat padding career loser like Ilt Chokerlain.


Game five...Draymond was suspended for this...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/18/are-the-nba-finals-rigged.html

Clearly, that turned the series.
He wasn't suspended for that, moron. He was given a flagrant foul, which was deserved.

Jeff should just put this in a new thread and sticky it.

Green was suspended because he accrued more than the permissible amount of flagrant foul points. It was an AUTOMATIC suspension.


...
Games 3-5, LeBron put up 33/13/7/2/3 on 53%. He shot 54%, 52%, and 53% during that stretch. Again, those are from games 3-5. Not even including G6, in which Iggy played 30 minutes and LeBron put up 41/16/7/3/3 on 61% TS or G7 in which Iggy played 40 minutes and LeBron put up 27/11/11/2/3.

If we include those games, LeBron averaged 33/12/9/2/3 on 52% after playing terribly in the first two games.

Game 7 - LeBron scored 11 of the Cavs' 18 points in the 4th Q. LeBron scored in one quarter nearly what Wilt averages for his CAREER in the Finals. After GSW went up 4, LeBron scored 6 straight points to keep the Cavs in the game. Scored 8 straight points at one point. Singlehandedly kept the Cavs in the game.

The four minute stretch? Neither team scored a SINGLE point until Kyrie made that incredible 3. LeBron also had the block and the game and title sealing FT in the end.


...
Love how you forget that Love was playing injured. As were Irving and Shumpert. Yeah, lets ignore that though. Only when it comes to Chokerlain failing on a constant basis, we bring up stuff like that. It's quite hilarious that you think Chokerlain is the GOAT, but blame the '69 loss on his freaking coach. :oldlol:


...
They lost in the Finals, you drooling retard. They didn't lose in the conference Finals. LeBron choked in the Finals (just like your lover), not the conference Finals. Even with that choke, Miami were one missed 3 away from taking a 3-0 lead. You would know that, if you watched the games, instead of going over numbers for days together.

BTW, Wade had a typical Chokerlain Finals game in G6.


...
I'm not doing this, as it's been done several times before. Look up the DRtg's and the ranks of the teams LeBron played against. Not really that hard.

Fact #1 - Chokerlain played in an absolutely shitty and garbage ass era
Fact #2 - Chokerlain played for his stats and didn't give a shit about winning
Fact #3 - Chokerlain choked HARD and this can be evidenced by his significant drop off in production

[aj1987]

.....
Thumpernewman.com.... Holy ****! I literally am at a loss for words.

I'll just leave this here:


Right here:

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=126843

Interesting facts:

In this playoff run, Dirk Nowitzki sets a record for must FT's hit during the playoffs shooting 209-229. Wade on the other hand shoots 202-250 with both players playing 23 games in the playoffs that year. For a player who is more of a slasher, Wade only managed to get 21 more free throws?

Furthermore, Wade shot 10 and 14 free throws in the first two games, so its not like he just got more free throws the next few games. He was already getting to the line a lot.

The total foul count in the series was 146 fouls committed by the Miami Heat and 160 fouls committed by the Mavericks. Fairly equal if anything.

Furthermore, it's amazing it was soo close considering the Heat have Shaq and Wade on their team. Wade is a driver who gets a lot of free throws anyway, and Shaq is a guy who teams love to send to the line. Also, the Mavericks were more of a jumpshooting team, with most of their driving coming from Harris and Howard.

Quick facts:
--Miami outrebounded the Mavs in 4 of the 6 games in the series.
--In the 4 games Miami won, they shot better in 3 of those matchups, with the only time they shot worse being by .8 of a %.
--Miami shot less threes then the Dallas team in 5 of the 6 games. The one time they shot more threes then the Dallas team, they lost.

Game 3:
Mavericks up 83-71 with 8:30 left. A lot of people claim that the refs took over here and helped guide Wade to victory.
Up to the 3rd quarter Wade had shot 15 free throws. In the 4th quarter, Wade shot only 3 free throws, and only 1 free throw within the 8:30 left. So the two other free throws he shot were before the 12 point lead the Mavs had.

Not to mention with the game score was 97-95 in favor of the Heat with 3 seconds to go and Dirk gets given 2 free throws. So the Mavs were given a chance to tie the game, and Dirk only hit 1 of 2 free throws to make the score 97-96 in favor of the Heat.

So in actual fact, Wade got no free throws in that 8:30, due to the free throws he recieved being out of desperation and the Mavs hacking to be able to get another shot off. So a total of 0 shooting fouls were called for Wade in the 4th.


Game 4:
98-74 win for the Heat. Mavs shot 31% and Wade had 9 free throws. Nothing to talk about really. Mavs completely outplayed.

Game 5:
This is the game where Wade goes onto shoot as many free throws as the entire Dallas team. 21-25 went Wade and 21-25 went Dallas. Game went into overtime as well.
Wade had 22 points going into the 4th quarter. Wade scored 17 in the 4th quarter with the last 6 points all coming from jumpers. Even the game tying shot was a jumper to level the game at 93-93 with 2 seconds left. No free throws needed. 7 of Wade's 17 points came from FT's. So he basically maintained his average foul shot per quarter rate in the 4th.

Then in the overtime, the score was 100-99 in favor of the Mavs with 2 seconds left and Wade was given 2 free throws. As many of you know, at the time there was great debate as to whether this was a foul or not. The play involved Harris and Nowitzki both hacking Wade and Nowitzki being called for the foul.
https://s28.postimg.org/rsojewxdp/7Efvj5G.jpg


That was the play for those who have forgot. Many people say this wasn't a foul. Now take a look at what happened on this play:

https://s30.postimg.org/6kt9xx2kx/qr98Ae1.gif

Harris' leg clearly fouling Wade.

Also:
Dirk giving Wade a huge shove, just look at the amount of contact.

https://s24.postimg.org/js7rf6cth/GZdbKdf.jpg

Not to mention Harris grabbed Wade's other hand on the way to the basket, but I don't have a picture. He didn't just slap it, but grabbed it and didn't allow Wade to have shooting motion. That is a foul even in late game situations. Two players hacking and getting a huge amount of contact. On his leg, one arm and pushing on his back. That has to get called even in the dying seconds.

EDIT: Picture found.

https://s30.postimg.org/deotrvqxd/CfMyCFs.jpg

Harris' grabbing Wade's shooting arm, pretty much not allowing a shot to be attempted.

Game 6:

Heat win the championship with a 95-92 win. No controversy here

Wade had the best Finals performance in NBA History... Putting the team on his back in the Final 4 games (all wins) and scored over 35 pts per game in each one:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...rforma nces-1

^ GREATEST Finals Performance EVER !!



The opposing team couldn't stop Wade without fouling, so he exploited that and won his team the game?

They changed the rules to get the scoring back up after the 04 season, handchecking was made illegal. It's why guys like Kobe,Lebron and AI had huge gains in the PPG department in 05-06, they learned how to exploit the new rules that favored the offensive player.

Here's a good post

From his Blog Maverick weblog, Mark Cuban's article 'If It’s Not Broke, Doesn’t Mean It’s Optimal. Even in the NBA';Feb 4th 2009:

Cuban got his wish and the already stringent anti-contact rules for perimeter play became even more strict. The unintended backlash ended up blowing up in his face:

"The NBA eliminated all forms of hand-checking before the 2004-2005 season. The rule was intended to give offensive players more freedom, but has given offensive players an unfair advantage. It’s virtually impossible to keep perimeter players out of the paint.

Cuban has done a lot for the NBA. But the hand-checking rule was better left unchanged."

http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/04/if-its-not-broke-doesnt-mean-its-optimal-even-in-the-nba/

Suck on that, Loozerus. LeBron >>>>>>> Chokerlain and it's not even close.

Wade surpassed the "GOAT" scorer in PO point in fewer games played as well.

GOAT statpadder and choker for sure though.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~20 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5 :roll: :roll:

[swagga]

@ laz, give it up. lebron has surpassed Bird, now live with it:lol


https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/bird_vs_james2.jpg

lebron basically trumps Bird in all advances stats and the only raw stat he's not better in is rebs which can be explained by pace


trying to compare 1980s stats to 2000s stats straight-up.

Lebron's TS% is actually 58.1%, well above Bird's 56.4%.

In '79-'80, when Bird came into the league, the average game had 220 possessions/game (counting shots and turnovers). By the time he retired in 1992 that had dropped to 210.

In '03-'04, when Lebron came into the league, the average game had 190 possessions/game. It dropped to 186 by '06 before rising to 197 now.


Bird's basically getting a 12% bump on every stat just because guys were running up and down the floor and letting the ball fly in the 1980s. The game was a lot more wide open.


By 100 possessions, the numbers are:

Lebron: 36.9 points, 9.7 boards, 9.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.1 blocks
Bird: 30.3 points, 12.5 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.0 blocks


Add in the better shooting, and Lebron kills Bird on the advanced stats.

PER: Lebron 27.7, Bird 23.5
Win shares/48: Lebron .240, Bird .203
BPM: Lebron 9.2, Bird 7.2
VORP: Lebron 108.6, Bird 79.7



.....lets not even get stated on defense which tips the scale waaayy to lebrons side



Bill Simmons and reggie miller are both Larry stans ad they have Lebron higher now all time

Any Given Wednesday with Bill Simmons: LeBron on track to become the GOAT (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdCu2C6_4iQ



Reggie Miller Kicks Larry Bird Out of His All-Time Top-5 for LeBron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fCKlHZt5II


...lebron is now the consensus best small forward ever

187 in progress.

[Helix]

Once again, Chokerlain played in a garbage ass era, and you can safely increase LeBron's numbers by 60% to translate to that trash era. In short, LeBron would be putting up 50/20/15 on over 60%, if he played back then.

Keep on fantasizing there, sonny boy. You take Lebron James and drop him into the NBA back in the mid 60's and I GUARANTEE you he would NOT be a player at the level of Baylor, West, and Robertson. He simply does not have that level of BB IQ, nor does he have the mental toughness it took back then to play at their level. Factor in the huge drop in technology and money, and the REAL basketball rules he would have to play under, too. I'm not saying he couldn't be a very good player.......he probably would, but certainly nothing like you kids like to think.

[aj1987]

Keep on fantasizing there, sonny boy. You take Lebron James and drop him into the NBA back in the mid 60's and I GUARANTEE you he would NOT be a player at the level of Baylor, West, and Robertson. He simply does not have that level of BB IQ, nor does he have the mental toughness it took back then to play at their level. Factor in the huge drop in technology and money, and the REAL basketball rules he would have to play under, too. I'm not saying he couldn't be a very good player.......he probably would, but certainly nothing like you kids like to think.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I really can't tell if you're trolling or legit retarded, kid.

[Helix]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I really can't tell if you're trolling or legit retarded, kid.


Well son, if you and so many of the past generation or two want to buy into all the Lebron James hype and live in a fantasy world, be my guest. I stand by what I said.

[aj1987]

Well son, if you and so many of the past generation or two want to buy into all the Lebron James hype and live in a fantasy world, be my guest. I stand by what I said.
I'm not the one living in a fantasy world, kid. If you think those dude's from the '60's are all better than LeBron, you're living in delusion.

Also, why do you turds need so many accounts to validate your retarded claims? Be a man and stick to one account.

One more quote:

"I can't deny LeBron James, he's definitely on my Mt. Rushmore. He's a winner and we've never seen anybody with his all around skill set."

- Magic Johnson

[Helix]

I'm not the one living in a fantasy world, kid. If you think those dude's from the '60's are all better than LeBron, you're living in delusion.

Also, why do you turds need so many accounts to validate your retarded claims? Be a man and stick to one account.

One more quote:

"I can't deny LeBron James, he's definitely on my Mt. Rushmore. He's a winner and we've never seen anybody with his all around skill set."

- Magic Johnson


Per the bold.......that's NOT what I said.

As for accounts, I've only ever had one.......the one I'm posting under now.

And........Magic has said a lot of things.

[aj1987]

Per the bold.......that's NOT what I said.

As for accounts, I've only ever had one.......the one I'm posting under now.

And........Magic has said a lot of things.
Ugh. No point in discussing with someone who has no idea about basketball except "theyre better cause I said so!!!!111".

[Helix]

Ugh. No point in discussing with someone who has no idea about basketball except "theyre better cause I said so!!!!111".


You make a post like this........

"Originally Posted by aj1987
Once again, Chokerlain played in a garbage ass era, and you can safely increase LeBron's numbers by 60% to translate to that trash era. In short, LeBron would be putting up 50/20/15 on over 60%, if he played back then."

.......and then claim that "I" have no idea about basketball?!

[aj1987]

You make a post like this........

"Originally Posted by aj1987
Once again, Chokerlain played in a garbage ass era, and you can safely increase LeBron's numbers by 60% to translate to that trash era. In short, LeBron would be putting up 50/20/15 on over 60%, if he played back then."

.......and then claim that "I" have no idea about basketball?!
What do you expect me to post when you and Laz are posting some asinine shit?

[LAZERUSS]

Now the REALITY of the '06 Finals.

It was so BLATANTLY obvious that they were rigged that even the near-brain-dead Bill Simmons agreed...

https://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620


Speaking of the refs, Game 5 of the Finals took its rightful place alongside Game 7 of the Seattle-Phoenix series in 1993, Game 6 of the Kings-Lakers series in 2002, Game 5 of the Knicks-Celtics series in 1973 and some of the other famous entries in the Pantheon of One-Sided Officiated Games. We're running some e-mails in a sidebar (look to the right), but you know it's bad when the owner of the losing team runs out onto the floor to stare down the commissioner after the game -- the last time that happened at a sporting event, Vince McMahon was involved.

(FYI: In today's Miami Herald, Greg Cote writes that Cuban was screaming profanely at referee Joe DeRosa right after the game, "then turned to Stern and other NBA officials who were seated at the scorer's table and was overheard to shout venomously in the jubilant din, '[Bleep] you! [Bleep] you! Your league is rigged!'" Remember when I wrote that, on a scale of 1-to-10 about being excited for the moment when Stern handed Cuban the trophy, I was a 35? Now I'm a 72. Although Cuban did deny saying this on his blog.)

I tackled this in a Cowbell blog last year, but it's worth rehashing again: The NBA doesn't fix games. That's impossible. And stupid. It could never happen. (Well, except for the Hubert Davis game -- that was fixed. Just kidding. Kind of.) A few months ago, I looked David Stern in the eye and asked him about the ongoing officiating problems, and he seemed agonized enough about it that I actually believed him. Unless he was pulling a DeNiro-level acting performance on me. Which I doubt. But there are three major problems here.

First, Dwyane Wade shot as many free throws (25) as the entire Dallas team in Game 5. I just don't see how there's any way this can happen in a fairly-called game. It's theoretically impossible.

Second, everyone knew the officiating would be a problem heading into this series because of Cuban's past problems with the league. In my Finals preview, I wrote that "No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet." Well, we had our two games -- Game 3 (the last five minutes were just obscene) and Game 5 (again, a top-five debacle). And the series isn't over yet.

Third, here's a theory on referees that I described in a blog last spring:

"I don't think the NBA fixes games, but they have one trick that they use for situations like this -- when they want a home team to win the game, they invariably assign the worst referees possible to that game for two reasons: Bad referees have a tendency to get swayed by the home crowd, and bad referees never have the stones to make a tough call on the road. In a related story, I went to 35 Clippers games this year and kept a list of the referees in my pocket which I also used to follow the referees for any televised games. And yes, the referees in the NBA -- as a whole -- have never been worse. But there were six referees that stuck out as being especially terrible."

Then I went on to list the worst six referees. Here was No. 2 on the list:

"2. Bennett Salvatore -- Always one of the worst, he took it to another level this season. If you see him on the court at the start of the game, get ready for about six technicals, two near-brawls and both coaches having to be restrained by their assistants at various times."

Why is this relevant? Not only did Salvatore officiate Game 4 of the Suns-Lakers series (the one where Kobe tied it at the end of regulation and won it at the end of OT on two shaky non-calls on Nash, both by Salvatore), not only did Salvatore officiate Sunday night's Game 5 (in which Miami had a 40-12 free-throw advantage at one point), but Salvatore called the foul on Wade's final drive in overtime (remember, the call where ABC couldn't find a replay to show that anyone touched him?) even though he was standing at midcourt a full 35-40 feet from the play, and even though two other refs were closer to the play. Not only was that NOT his call, he butchered it.

Considering I brought this up LAST spring, do you find any of this a little strange? Why aren't the best referees calling these games? Why do the worst ones always seem to get assigned to games in which it would be better for the league if the home team won? Why am I the only one who notices this stuff or seems to care? Why do I find myself watching these games and concentrating more on the one-sided officiating than some of Wade's spectacular plays? As my buddy House e-mailed on Monday morning: "I don't think I can take much more of NBA refs insisting on controlling the outcomes of the most significant games. The NBA is a disgrace and should be completely embarrassed. I hate this game."

And that's coming from one of the last 19 NBA diehards -- I can only imagine what the casual fans thought after watching such a one-sided travesty. Look, we all love Dwyane Wade. He's fantastic. But there's absolutely no scenario in which a 2-guard should be attempting as many free throws as everyone on the other team. It's absolutely unfathomable. And here's what really kills me: If there's a Game 7, you KNOW they'll come up with the best possible officials for that particular game. So why wouldn't every Finals game work like that? We have seven possible games spread over 17 days ... they couldn't pick the best three or four refs and have them work every game, like how MLB picks the best seven umps to comprise the World Series crew? Why wouldn't that work? Is there a single reason you can come up with? Arrrrrrrrgh.

AND, that was BEFORE the game SIX debacle which was CLEARLY as bad as game five (and both games 3 and 4 were highly suspect, as well.)

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

I have seen three sure-fire basketball related "fixes" in my life.

1. The '72 Gold Medal Game. This game was going to be given to the Soviets no matter what. And they proved it by continually giving them a last second shot...until they FINALLY made it. And I have no doubt, that if they hadn't made the shot...they would still be playing the same game today...until the pre-determined outcome came to fruition.

2. '02 WCF's. Ok, I knew about the "fix" before most everyone. How? I watched game FIVE live. For those that claim game six was rigged...well, game FIVE was officiated every bit as badly. Even the last sequence was a joke, when Webber kicked the ball out of bounds, and they still gave the ball to the Kings. Oh, and Shaq averaged 11 FTAs a game in that series. In game five...exactly ONE.

Of course, the real difference between the '02 WCF's, and the '06 Finals was this. The refs didn't care who won the '02 WCF's. They just ensured that it went to seven games. Which brings us to ...

3. The '06 Finals. BLATANT one-sided officiating the last FOUR games. Interesting that Fade averaged 10.7 FTAs per game in the regular season, and even a reasonable 10.9 FTAs in the playoffs. But, 16.1 FTAs in the Finals??? Including an eye-popping... 46 ...yes 46 FTAs in the last two games???

Not only that, he was pushing off in every game, blowing down the lane, barreling into defenders, and eagerly anticipating the next trip to the line. And almost endless parade to the FT stripe.

But don't take my word for it...how about these...

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4152/the-salvatore-side-of-the-story-crucified-in-the-2006-finals

"The SalvatoreSide of the Story: "Crucified" in the 2006 Finals"

Interesting to note that the writer is doing all he can to SUPPORT the calls in that game five. And even he, as blind as he was, admitted this...


When I first watched the video, I had forgotten all about the particulars of everyone's complaints. I just watched it. And I was struck by Wade's shove of Terry.

When I started rolling that video for Bennett Salvatore, I stopped it a few seconds, just before Jason Terry went sprawling to the floor. Frankly, that play, to me, looked exactly like Michael Jordan shoving Bryon Russell to the floor. It was far from the hoop, and because it came with much more time on the clock, it may not have been nearly as game-changing as the subsequent foul on Nowitzki. (If Wade gets called for the offensive foul at that stage of the game, who knows how the game ends?)

Nevertheless, to my eyes ... that's a foul.

That was one of the things that Mark Cuban was really mad about after the game. "You mean when [Wade] pushed [Terry]? I don't know," Cuban said, ramping up the facetiousness: "I guess that's not a foul."



Salvatore was brushing aside the notion that Terry was shoved. What I was hearing was not squaring with what I was seeing.



And how about these:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110412210406AAcq1kb

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174482

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1173800-10-worst-officiated-games-in-nba-history-could-the-nba-really-be-rigged

http://www.topix.com/forum/nba/T3F0SUUJSO9ES7PEJ

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2014/05/19/report-mark-cuban-hired-former-fbi-agent-to-investigate-league-referees-after-2006-finals/

http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-rigged-rumors-league-fixed-fly-finals-begin-1295675

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-nba-conspiracy-theories-2013-6

https://www.quora.com/Were-the-2006-NBA-finals-Mavericks-v-Heat-rigged

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/the-nba-s-greatest-ugliest-series.html

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=831438

And I could post links until the comes home.

It will be interesting when Fade retires (which he should have done 5 years ago BTW)...and then publishes the truth in that series.

In any case...with link-after-link, quote-after-quote, forum debate-after-forum debate ad nauseum...there can be NO DOUBT that the '06 Finals were RIGGED.

In fact, just googling '06 NBA Finals...and the endless links pop up, one-right-another.

It's also interesting that the shortly after, there are countless links on Wade, himself, defending the '06 Finals. But again...after he retires I am sure he will step forth and give us all the truth.

The REALITY was... Fade was GIFTED the '06 Finals MVP, as were the Heat.

Of course, he never again approached that level of play again, and in fact, couldn't handle the load as "the man" in '11 (and puked all over the floor in the clinching loss); played nothing more than decent in '12 (and still shot poorly); was mediocre in '13; and was a POS in the '14 Finals.

BTW, just how important was Deewayne to the Heat from '11-'14? He missed 65 games...and the Heat could only go 47-18 in them.

The Bus-Rider.

[swagga]

Continuing...

I have seen three sure-fire basketball related "fixes" in my life.

1. The '72 Gold Medal Game. This game was going to be given to the Soviets no matter what. And they proved it by continually giving them a last second shot...until they FINALLY made it. And I have no doubt, that if they hadn't made the shot...they would still be playing the same game today...until the pre-determined outcome came to fruition.

2. '02 WCF's. Ok, I knew about the "fix" before most everyone. How? I watched game FIVE live. For those that claim game six was rigged...well, game FIVE was officiated every bit as badly. Even the last sequence was a joke, when Webber kicked the ball out of bounds, and they still gave the ball to the Kings. Oh, and Shaq averaged 11 FTAs a game in that series. In game five...exactly ONE.

Of course, the real difference between the '02 WCF's, and the '06 Finals was this. The refs didn't care who won the '02 WCF's. They just ensured that it went to seven games. Which brings us to ...

3. The '06 Finals. BLATANT one-sided officiating the last FOUR games. Interesting that Fade averaged 10.7 FTAs per game in the regular season, and even a reasonable 10.9 FTAs in the playoffs. But, 16.1 FTAs in the Finals??? Including an eye-popping... 46 ...yes 46 FTAs in the last two games???

Not only that, he was pushing off in every game, blowing down the lane, barreling into defenders, and eagerly anticipating the next trip to the line. And almost endless parade to the FT stripe.

But don't take my word for it...how about these...

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4152/the-salvatore-side-of-the-story-crucified-in-the-2006-finals

"The SalvatoreSide of the Story: "Crucified" in the 2006 Finals"

Interesting to note that the writer is doing all he can to SUPPORT the calls in that game five. And even he, as blind as he was, admitted this...






And how about these:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110412210406AAcq1kb

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174482

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1173800-10-worst-officiated-games-in-nba-history-could-the-nba-really-be-rigged

http://www.topix.com/forum/nba/T3F0SUUJSO9ES7PEJ

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2014/05/19/report-mark-cuban-hired-former-fbi-agent-to-investigate-league-referees-after-2006-finals/

http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-rigged-rumors-league-fixed-fly-finals-begin-1295675

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-nba-conspiracy-theories-2013-6

https://www.quora.com/Were-the-2006-NBA-finals-Mavericks-v-Heat-rigged

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/the-nba-s-greatest-ugliest-series.html

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=831438

And I could post links until the comes home.

It will be interesting when Fade retires (which he should have done 5 years ago BTW)...and then publishes the truth in that series.

In any case...with link-after-link, quote-after-quote, forum debate-after-forum debate ad nauseum...there can be NO DOUBT that the '06 Finals were RIGGED.

In fact, just googling '06 NBA Finals...and the endless links pop up, one-right-another.

It's also interesting that the shortly after, there are countless links on Wade, himself, defending the '06 Finals. But again...after he retires I am sure he will step forth and give us all the truth.

The REALITY was... Fade was GIFTED the '06 Finals MVP, as were the Heat.

Of course, he never again approached that level of play again, and in fact, couldn't handle the load as "the man" in '11 (and puked all over the floor in the clinching loss); played nothing more than decent in '12 (and still shot poorly); was mediocre in '13; and was a POS in the '14 Finals.

The Bus-Rider.

son sorry to ruin your parade but if you look at the mavs wing defenders (none could even stay in front of wade) and at the mavs gameplan (can't help because dirk) it's obvious why wade shot so many free throws ... sure some of them were given easily but overall he earned them, dallas were forced into bad tactics by a bad matchups personnel wise.

wilt is dead son, let him rip.

[LAZERUSS]

son sorry to ruin your parade but if you look at the mavs wing defenders (none could even stay in front of wade) and at the mavs gameplan (can't help because dirk) it's obvious why wade shot so many free throws ... sure some of them were given easily but overall he earned them, dallas were forced into bad tactics by a bad matchups personnel wise.

wilt is dead son, let him rip.

I guess EVERYONE else must have been watching a different Finals than you "son."

[aj1987]

I guess EVERYONE else must have been watching a different Finals than you "son."
It's funny how you completely ignored my post, in which I presented pictures and FACTUAL evidence.

Even funnier is the fact that you bring up watching the games. I've watched all 6 games at least 10 times each. I remember them like they happened this season. You best bring your best shit, kiddo. Else, you'll just murdered like you always do.

When was the last time you actually saw a basketball game, BTW?

EDIT: I missed that you called Bill Simmons brain dead and then proceed to agree with him, ignoring all the FACTS and EVIDENCE I presented. :roll:

[Mayday Malone]

"There is only one Larry Bird"
Magic Johnson

"There will never be another Larry Bird"

That's Magic's true quote. Magic would have killed LeSoft on the floor. Showtime would have eaten LeSponser alive. No help defense, no understanding of work together defense, Magic would have steamrolled any team LeQuit would have put on the floor.

He was afraid of Larry Bird. Magic is in the HOF with greats like Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Russell.

Yet he's afraid of Larry Bird.

So, I ask, if LeCoward is better than Bird, is he better than Magic?

Who in the NBA does The Big Failure really scare, within a historical perspective?

[KirbyPls]

"There is only one Larry Bird"
Magic Johnson

"There will never be another Larry Bird"

That's Magic's true quote. Magic would have killed LeSoft on the floor. Showtime would have eaten LeSponser alive. No help defense, no understanding of work together defense, Magic would have steamrolled any team LeQuit would have put on the floor.

He was afraid of Larry Bird. Magic is in the HOF with greats like Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Russell.

Yet he's afraid of Larry Bird.

So, I ask, if LeCoward is better than Bird, is he better than Magic?

Who in the NBA does The Big Failure really scare, within a historical perspective?


Why does Lebron need scare Bird when he surpassed him in the GOAT rankings on June 19, 2016, and as the better player in 2014?

[tpols]

Who in the NBA does The Big Failure really scare, within a historical perspective?

it's like people have forgotten that bran needed to make a gigantic scene out of nothin at the end of game 4.. dude literally threw a temper tantrum "i got kids man, i got kids".. and then got up on a podium and begged the league to suspend his competitions best player. He would get eaten alive playing against a guy like Bird.. especially if they played in an era free of retroactive officiating and overly stringent flagrant rules.. like the one Larry played in .

bron fam is grasping at straws at best.

[LAZERUSS]

Ajackoff:


Fact #1 - Chokerlain played in an absolutely shitty and garbage ass era

Sure did.

Here is a picture of a two time MVP in the 60's...

http://www.unsportsmanlike.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/steve-nash-carries-a-man-purse.jpg

Here is actual footage of a typical white PG in the 60's, including the commentary...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=993UTozPECc

Truly laughable...that dork shot ...get this... .368 from the field.


Compare that with this gifted 6-5 PG from the current era...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qv0YS1wHoQ


Now, here was a 6-7 3/4" white player from the 60's, who actually led the league in rebounding one season (RAN AWAY with the rpg title)...and put up a season of 26-12, as well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY


Bill Russell was a shade taller than 6-9 1/2. Sure he was a world class high jumper with these skills...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc

BUT, that was in the 60's.

Nope...not in today's NBA. Today's centers are much taller. Guys like DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, and Dwight Howard. And those guys have jump shots from 20 feet, too.

Here is a picture of the shrimp Russell, in his 70's (and having probably lost 1-2" BTW), standing next to the much taller "6-11" Howard...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/dharocks/dwight_zps72910c96.jpg

And the "7-2" Mutombo...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/dharocks/deke_zpsa6ad2dc6.jpg

Continued...

[Hoopz2332]

"There is only one Larry Bird"
Magic Johnson

"There will never be another Larry Bird"

That's Magic's true quote. Magic would have killed LeSoft on the floor. Showtime would have eaten LeSponser alive. No help defense, no understanding of work together defense, Magic would have steamrolled any team LeQuit would have put on the floor.

He was afraid of Larry Bird. Magic is in the HOF with greats like Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Russell.

Yet he's afraid of Larry Bird.

So, I ask, if LeCoward is better than Bird, is he better than Magic?

Who in the NBA does The Big Failure really scare, within a historical perspective?

what Magic thinks

https://s13.postimg.io/3jpf2un53/Screenshot_Aug_31_2016_9_51_PM.png

http://cavsnation.com/magic-johnson-impressed-lebron-james-gives-incredibly-high-honor/

[LAZERUSS]

Continued...

A 38-41 year old KAJ outscored, and massively outshot a 22-25 Hakeem in their 23 career H2H's. In fact, a 38-39 year Kareem, in his first 10 H2H's with Olajuwon...AVERAGED 32 ppg, on... get this... a .630 FG%! Which included THREE 40+ point games (40, 43, and 46.)

Here is a sample...

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/09/13/20130803-kareem-vs-rockets.nba/

Oh, and in the same week he was plastering the "Twin Towers", he outscored Ewing 40-9 (and outshot him by a 15-22 to 3-17 margin.)


Ok, let's move back to when Kareem was at his PEAK, shall we? A PEAK Kareem faced a fading full-time Thurmond ('69-'73) in 35 H2H's. His HIGH game against Nate? 34 points. And only a total of FIVE 30+ games against him in those H2H's. Oh, and he also shot...get this... .447 against him! Then, in Kareem's PEAK season, in the '71-72 playoffs, Thurmond OUTSCORED and OUTSHOT Abdul-Jabbar (25.0 ppg to 22.8 ppg, and .437 to...get this... .405!)

BTW, a PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain faced Thurmond 13 times from '65 thru their first game in '67...and had a total of SIX 30+ point games against him...including beatdowns by margins of 38-15 and 45-13. In their six regular season H2H's in the '67 season, Wilt outscored a PEAK Nate, 20.8 ppg to 13.0 ppg; outrebounded him, 25.0 to 21.4 rpg; and outshot him by...get this... a .633 to .308 margin!

BTW, and speaking of Hakeem. Shaq, at his peak, in the '99 WC playoffs, had his career high game against a fading Olajuwon... of ... 37 points.


Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

In Wilt's LAST season, at age 36, he battled a PEAK 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier in six H2H games...


vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%

Lanier, KAJ, Cowens, McAdoo, Gilmore played in the 70's (and even into the 80's)...and Chamberlain faced them all, and by most accounts, outplayed them all (well. he did outplay Kareem in their two post-season H2H's anyway...but then again...we all know that KAJ was a career post-season choker, right?). All at near the end of his career.

You already know about an old Kareem just abusing a poor Hakeem by now...but in their first ten H2H's, a 34-35 year old Gilmore pounded Hakeem to the tune of 24 ppg on a ...get this... .677 FG%.


Interesting too that, guys like KAJ, and Gilmore were in their primes in the 70's, and yet shot a FAR higher FG% in the 80's. In fact, a prime KAJ, right in the middle of the 70's, averaged 27.7 on a .529 FG%. In his 80-81 season, and at age 33, Kareem averaged 26.2 ppg on a .574 FG%. And just the year before, shot a career high .604. From '80 thru '87, and up to age 40, Kareem's LOW FG% was .564.

Gilmore's rise in efficiency was even more pronounced from the 70's to the '80's. He, of course, dominated the ABA, but after the merger, and at age 27, he averaged 18.6 ppg on a .522 FG%. In '81, at age 31, he averaged 17.9 ppg on a .670 FG%, and was still putting up staggering seasons at age 35 in the mid-80's (19.1 ppg on a .623 FG%.)

BTW, player-for-player, whose careers spanned the 60's and into the '70's, shot better in the 70's. Same with those players whose careers spanned the 70's and into the 80's. What happened? Were defenses that much WORSE as each decade progressed?

As for some interesting matchups in the 70's...Bob McAdoo outscored Kareem in the majority of their H2H's in the 70's. Hell, he had one game against KAJ in which he pumped in 45 points, and at one point, had made 17 straight shots! Gilmore and Lanier pretty much gave KAJ all he could handle. And while a more peak Kareem ('70 thru '72) just murdered Cowens...as the decade progressed, Cowens had his shares of "wins" against Kareem.

And speaking of matchups...along came Moses "The Kareem-Killer" Malone in the late 70's. Absolutely OWNED Kareem in their 40 career H2H's, and especially in their 7 post-season H2H's (which Malone's teams won by a 6-1 margin.) How dominant was Moses? Late in his career, and well past his prime...he was still outrebounding a prime Hakeem in their four H2H's...in a season in which Olaujwon would win the rpg title.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

For those that question the talent levels of Wilt's era...

Here was an interesting one...

The 6-6 230 lb Gus Johnson.

http://www.cornerclubmoscow.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2


When Johnson played at Idaho in 1963, he already had a reputation as a leaper of the highest order. One evening at the Corner Club, a local tavern on Main Street in Moscow, Johnson was requested by owner Herm Goetz to display his rare ability to the patrons. The Corner Club was a very modest establishment, converted from a white-stuccoed small chapel in the 1940s with hardwood floors and a beamed ceiling. From a standing start near the bar, Johnson touched a spot on a beam 11'6" (3.505 m) above the floor. This spot was ceremoniously marked with a nail by Goetz, who then proudly proclaimed that anyone who could duplicate the feat could drink for free. A 40-inch (1.016 m) diameter circle was painted on the floor, and both feet had to start inside the circle to ensure a standing start. A full 23 years went by with many attempts at Gus Johnson's Nail, including Bill Walton in the summer of 1984, but there were no successes.

That was until 1986, when the College of Southern Idaho basketball team from Twin Falls stopped in town in January on their way to a game against NIC in Coeur d'Alene. Joey Johnson, a younger brother of then NBA star Dennis Johnson, was brought into the Corner Club for a try. The 6'3" (1.905 m) guard had a 48" (1.219 m) vertical leap and could put his chin on a basketball rim (10 feet (3.048 m)) with a running start.

Johnson laced up his shoes and touched the nail on his first try but was disqualified because he did not start with both feet inside the 40-inch circle. The next attempt came from a legal static start but was just a bit short. On his third try, Johnson grabbed and bent the legendary nail, a landmark event in Vandal sports history. Goetz pulled the nail out of the beam and pounded it back in, a half inch (13 mm) higher.

Here is some of the very limited footage of Gus that is out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHcrG6gfJhI

Just look at his shooting skills in that footage. He had a smooth jump shot out past the FT line.

Ok, so here we have a "mini-Lebron", playing in the 60's... a physical marvel that was an amazing athlete, with soft shooting skills. Obviously, against the short white guys of the 60's, Gus must have put up a ton of 30-20 seasons, right?

Not quite. He had ONE season of 20+ ppg (20.7 ppg), and his high season in rpg... 17.1 rpg (his next highest... 13.9 rpg.)


Then there was John Havlicek. A 6-5 white guy who could play either SG or SF. Played 16 seasons in the NBA, splitting time equally from the 60's and into the '70's (BTW, he outshot his career high FG% in the 60's, in ALL eight seasons that he played in the 70's.) For those that would claim that Bill Russell "made" Hondo...Havlicke had seasons of 24, 24, 28, and even 29 ppg AFTER Russell. He also played on TWO title teams AFTER Russell. BTW, for tghose that like this to use this stat... 8/8 in his Finals.

Ok, here was an old Hondo, in 1978, playing in his LAST game of his career...just a 29-8-4 game BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI


Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continued...

For Ajackoff, and his comment that Wilt played in a "garbage Era"...

For the record, Chamberlain faced Lovellette, Cowens, Hayes, Unseld, Reed, Bellamy, McAdoo, Lanier, Thurmond, Russell, Gilmore (yep, and badly outplayed him in the 71-72 ABA-NBA ASG), and Kareem. ALL in the HOF. And keep in mind that Chamberlain played in leagues between eight to 17 teams. He was facing these guys on a nightly basis. And he either outplayed, or downright dominated them all (only a PEAK Kareem would have an argument...and again, in their two playoff series H2H's, a way-past-peak Wilt was considered the "winner.")

Ok, ...how about some quick comparisons between what a PRIME Chamberlain did against the SAME centers that a PEAK Kareem would face a few years later.

Willis Reed. A PRIME Chamberlain only faced a Reed, at center, in 12 games early in their career, and two more in the '68-69 season...and BATTERED him. Kareem's high game against Reed...41 points. Wilt AVERAGED 38.6 ppg against Reed in their 12 H2H's in the '65 season...which included beatdowns by margins of 46-25, 41-9, 52-23, and even 58-28. In their two H2H's in the '69 season (and before Wilt shredded his knee early on in the 69-70 season), Wilt outscored Reed by a 28 ppg to 20 ppg margin, outrebounded him by a 22.0 to 9.5 rpg margin, and outshot him from the field by a .688 to .459 margin. Incidently, I always get a kick out of those that use Reed's two Finals ('70 and '73) against Wilt (and even though Wilt still outplayed him in both). Those two series came AFTER Wilt's major knee surgery.

Connie Dierking. Dierking is interesting. A Chamberlain, at the beginning of his '69-70 season, and just before he blew out his knee, put up a 43 point game on Dierking. And just the season before, in a season in which Wilt averaged about 10 FGAs, he hung a 60 point game on Dierking. A peak Kareem faced Dierking over the span of several seasons...and his high game was 41 points. Now, how about a PRIME Chamberlain against Dierking? Many 40+ point games including a 63 point game, and another game in which he outscored Dierking by a 59-4 margin.

Jim Fox. This isn't really fair to Wilt. A PRIME Chamberlain never faced Fox. Now, a PEAK Kareem faced him on many occasions, and his high game...again... 41 points. Wilt faced Fox in his 68-69 season, and in one game, he hung a 66 point game on him (on 29-35 shooting.) Oh, and in the game in which Wilt shredded his knee in '69? He had scored 33 points, in 28 minutes, and on 13-14 shooting. He was well on his way to a 40+ point game, and perhaps his last 50 point game.

Darrell Imhoff. Kareem's high game against Imhoff? 46 points. How about Wilt's high game against Imhoff. Yep... 100 points (granted, not all of the scoring came against Imhoff.) Wilt had many huge games against Imhoff in his career, but how about Imhoff's favorite game against Wilt? After Chamberlain had hung the 100, the two met a couple of days later. Imhoff tells the story that he busted his ass the entire game. Fronted, backed, hacked, you name it. Played his heart out. And as he was leaving the floor in the last minute, he received a standing ovation (the only time in his career BTW.) Why? Because he had "held" Wilt to 58 points!

Thurmond. I have already covered this earlier...but a quick recap. A PEAK Kareem, in the 35 H2H's against a full-time Thurmond, had a TOTAL of FIVE 30+ point games against him, with a HIGH game of 34 points. In their first 13 H2H games, Chamberlain had SIX 30+ games against Nate, including games of 38 and 45.

Finally...Walt Bellamy. First of all, "Bells" was listed at 6-11, but Marty Blake measured him at 7-0 barefoot. Kareem battleda fading Bellamy in 25 H2H's. His high game against Bellamy... 40 points. His next highest... 39 points. His next highest... 35 points. Now, how about Wilt? In their very first H2H game, Bellamy came into the game averaging 30 ppg. Chamberlain proceeded to block his first NINE shots, and wound up outscoring Bellamy by a 53-14 margin. In their first 10 H2H games, all in the 61-62 season... Wilt AVERAGED 52.7 ppg against Bellamy. AVERAGED. In his next 10 H2H's, in the 62-63 season, Chamberlain AVERAGED 43.7 ppg. AVERAGED. So, in their first 20 straight games, Wilt AVERAGED 48.2 ppg. Which included THREE games of 60+, and a high game of 73 (with 36 rebounds BTW.) Chamberlain continued to pound Bellamy their entire career (for instance, in his '67 season, Wilt averaged 22.7 ppg on...get this... a .709 FG%, which included a 35 point game on 15-18 shooting.)


BTW, Chamberlain and rookie Kareem (Alcindor) met in ONE game, before Chamberlain's injury. In that game, Wilt outscored Kareem, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him, 3-2 (which included TWO "unblockable" sky-hooks), and outshot him from the field by a 9-14 to 9-21 margin.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

Wilt's "garbage era" competition included many 6-11 and legit 7-0+ footers. Not only that, but those players were generally measured in bare feet. So, most all of them were at LEAST 7-0 tall.

I mentioned Russell earlier. For years Russell was labeled a "small" center. After all, he was "only" 6-9. Well, he was actually a shade under 6-10 in bare feet. Think about this... Dwight Howard, Demarcus Cousins, DeAndre Jordan, and Andre Drummond...most all listed at 6-11....were measured at 6-9 1/2 in the draft combine. I found it laughable, when a couple of years ago, Spencer Hawes was listed 7-1 (it has since been changed to 7-0 BTW.) He was measured at 6-10.5 in the draft combine.

And slightly off topic, but when the "6-11" Bill Walton squared off against the
7-0" Hakeem in the 80's, ... Walton had at LEAST a 2" height advantage. Walton simply attributed it to the floor being warped.

In any case, Nate Thurmond, who had a higher standing reach than Wilt BTW (and keep in mind that Wilt had a 7-8 wingspan), was listed at 6-11. In today's NBA he would be listed at between 7-0 to 7-1. Same with the 6-11 Bob Lanier. I already mentioned the "6-11" Walt Bellamy was actually a full 7-0...so he would be measured at between 7-1 to 7-2 today. Of course, Gilmore was a full 7-2, and Kareem was just a shade under. Which is interesting, since he was at LEAST as tall as the "7-4" Ralph Sampson in their H2H's (BTW, Mark Eaton was 7-3 or 7-4, and he said that he was at least two inches taller than Sampson, as well.)

So, when you see the 6-10, 6-11, and 7-0 footers that Chamberlain was facing almost every night...most all of them would be listed at between 1-2" taller in today's NBA.

Wilt, himself, was slightly over 7-1, and would likely be listed at 7-3 today. And Shaq, himself, has admitted that he was "only" 6-11.5...and the pics which have the two (and an late 50's to early 60's Wilt) seem to give Wilt at least an inch edge (and a younger Wilt likely two.) That coupled with incredible athleticism (he was a high jump champion at KU, and did so part-time, and with poor technique...as well as a long jumper.) There is footage in which Wilt is blocking a shot, and his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard. And there is an article taken in 1968, which gave Wilt a 12'9" jump. But that was when Wilt was in his 30's. There were eyewitness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard. That, and Tex Winter heading up an NCAA committee to ban the dunking of FTs BECAUSE of Wilt's "freakish activity" is all you need to know.

Wilt was also a sprinter at KU. And there is a newspaper article, in the mid-60's, with Chamberlain trying out for the Chiefs. Wilt was 27 at the time, and weighed about 290. Without warm-ups, Hank Stram clocked him at 4.6 in the 40...which was faster than any of the Chief RBs at the time.

Of course, the internet is PLASTERED with articles and links on Chamberlain's unfathomable strength. 450-500- and 500+ lb bench press numbers. But it goes well beyond that. None other than Arnold Schwartzenegger claimed that he was stunned by Wilt's strength. And in Robert Cherry's book on Chamberlain, he interviewed a well-known weight lifter by the name of Fluke Flucker, who himself supposedly could bench 500 lbs...who claimed that Wilt could curl 100 lbs like "you or I would pick up a telephone receiver." In any case, there are so MANY first hand accounts of Wilt's legendary strength...and virtually NONE that DISPUTE them, that he was among the most powerful, if not THE most powerful basketball players of all-time.

How about skill sets?

Keep in mind that we only have about 2% of Wilt's career on video. But here is my favorite...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

If you want something more comprehensive...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94iJr8ZbzM

Which has nearly all known footage of Chamberlain.

[Hoopz2332]

:biggums:

[aj1987]

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5


Lets look at a couple of physical behemoths from the '60's:

https://s9.postimg.org/b2eeiqye7/0_wilt_chamberlain_4.jpg
https://s9.postimg.org/kbgksv7a7/Bob_Cousy_1950_17688992.jpg




:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Yep...the "declining" Wilt.

I always find it amusing that Wilt gets ripped for his "decline", which of course is NEVER taken in CONTEXT.

MJ faced the Bad Boys four straight seasons. And he didn't finally get a win until the Pistons were just a shell in that fourth season. BUT, not only that, his numbers DECLINED CONSIDERABLY from his regular season numbers when he faced them. How come?

Same with a PEAK Shaq. When he faced the Robinson-led Spurs from '99-'02...numbers DECLINED CONSIDERABLY. BTW, there is mis-conception that the Spurs were swarming Shaq with Robinson and Duncan. The reality was, Popovich loaded up his rosters with CENTERS, most all of whom basically defended Shaq one-on-one. And Duncan RARELY defended Shaq. Hell, the 6-7 Malik Rose was defending him quite often.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/02playoffs/bonus-shaq.htm


San Antonio, even though it lost the season series to the Lakers 3-1 this season, is one of the few teams that can meet O'Neal's strength with strength of its own. Seldom do they match Tim Duncan against O'Neal, but David Robinson has the strength and quickness to at least offer some resistance. Robinson has a good enough outside shot to draw O'Neal away from the basket at the other end.

O'Neal was the most fouled player in the league, 9.3 times a game, and he went to the line a league-high 10.7 times a game.

"I never get tired. I get beat up," O'Neal says of the multitude of strategies against him.

One of the best at guarding O'Neal is 6-7, 255 pound Spurs reserve Malik Rose, who bodies up well and is just basically annoying.

"You can't be afraid of him, that's the first rule," Rose says.

Malik fuc...g Rose!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


And then there was a PEAK Kareem. From 71-73, he averaged 33 ppg on a .563 FG% against the NBA. In his five playoff series against Wilt and Thurmond? A combined 26 ppg on a ... get this... .456 FG%.

Wilt faced RUSSELL...the GOAT defensive center...and his SWARMING teammates (yes, even his teammates would tell you that)...in EIGHT post-season series. And all but one in either his first or second round.

The reality was, Chamberlain seldom had the luxury of facing stiffs like Ostertag, or Dampier, or a washed up Smits, or a never-was like MacCulloch. Chamberlain was routinely facing the likes of Bellamy, Reed, Thurmond, Russell, and KAJ. On top of that, Wilt was asked to change his game in the mid-60's, and his scoring dropped. In his "scoring" prime, he averaged 33 ppg in the playoffs, and in his 52 playoff games in that span...he faced Russell in 30 of them.

Furthermore, Chamberlain played 62 of his post-season games post-surgery. And he STILL was the most dominant player on the floor in the majority of those.


Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

Gotta love the Ajackoffs of this site. CONTEXT. He has no clue what that means.

Scoring? How about post-season runs of 28, 29, 33, 35, 35, and 37 ppg? How about post-season series of 37, 37, 39, and 39 ppg? How about post-season series of 28-30, 29-28, 30-31, 31-27, and 34-27 against RUSSELL? How about 13 playoff games of 40+...11 of which came in his 52 playoff games in his "scoring" seasons (21% for those keeping track.) How about MUST WIN games of 45-27 (Finals BTW), 46-34 (against RUSSELL BTW), 50-22, 50-35 (against RUSSELL BTW), and even a 56-35-12 game? As well as another 50 point game in the '64 WDF's. Or series clinching games of 30-32, 30-26, 38-26, and 39-26-10?

How about his MUST WIN playoff games? In his 23 must win playoff games...

31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

How about his 37 MUST WIN, and SERIES CLINCHING playoff games?

29.5 ppg, 26.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, and on a .546 FG% (again, in post-seasons that shot .435 in that span...or nearly TWELVE percentage points above the league average.)


Rebounding? Simply...the GOAT post-season rebounder in NBA history. Yes, Russell had a slightly higher average... 24.9 rpg to 24.5 rpg...BUT, in their eight playoff series H2H's, Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of them. Including margins of 5, 6, and even 9 rpg! Oh, Chamberlain is also the all-time FINALS leading rebounder with a career average of 24.6 rpg.

He played in 13 post-seasons, and his LOW was 20.2 rpg. He also had post-seasons of 28, 29, and even 30 rpg. And he had series of 30 and 31 rpg (both against RUSSELL BTW.) In his LAST post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games... 22.5 rpg, in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (just this last season the NBA averaged 42.0 rpg.) That translates to 19 rpg in the '16 playoffs. In his LAST season.

He played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of them. He was outrebounded by PF Jerry Lucas in ONE...and by a 21.0 to 20.0 rpg margin/ However, when the two faced each other as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded the 31 year old Lacas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.

Wilt was outrebounding Reed by 14 rpg, Thurmond by 7 rpg, and Russell by 9 rpg.


Playoff RECORDS? Surely this "declining" Wilt would not have any post-season records, right? How about, and by far, the most 20-20 games, the most 30-20 games, the most 20-30 games, the most 30-30 games, the most 40-20 games, the most 40-30 games, the most 50-20 games, and the most 50-30 games? How about the most post-seasons of 20-20, 30-20, 30-25, 35-20?


Blocked shots? Tim Duncan just retired with the "official" post-season blocked shot record of 568 in his 251 playoff games. Well nbastats.net contributor, Julizaver found blocked shot data for 81 of Wilt's 160 post-season games...or roughly half (and almost all of it from the mid-60's on)...and... 590 blocked shots...in 81 games! Hell, an old Wilt blocked 33 shots in his '72 WCF's in the four known games of that series, and 15 of those were on KAJ!

Defense? Wilt held Russell to playoff series FG%'s of .399, .397, .386, and .358 (in a season in which Russell shot .454 against the NBA.) He held Thurmond to playoff series of .392, .373, and .343 (a PEAK Nate BTW...and in a season in which Thurmond shot .437 against the NBA.) He held Bellamy to .450 in a season in which Bellamy shot .521 against the NBA, and then to .421 in a season in which Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA. Oh, can't forget Kareem, either. KAJ shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in '71 and '72. Against Wilt in those two post-seasons? .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

How about Wilt's FG% in his six Finals? .559...all while holding his opposing centers (all in the HOF BTW)...to a combined .439. Or how about his two game seven's of the Finals? He outshot Reed and Russell by a combined .708 to .333 margin (all while averaging 19.5 ppg and 25.5 rpg.)


Passing? Find me a CENTER who averaged 9.0 apg in an entire playoff run (which, BTW, led the post-season that year.) Or a center who had two straight triple-double series (28-27-11, and 22-32-10)?


Of course, had a PRIME Wilt faced the likes of a washed Smits, or a 35 year old Mutombo (whom Shaq was allowed to beat to a bloody pulp in some of the most disgraceful offciating in Finals history), or a never-was in the career 6 ppg scoring MacCulloch, or the complete bust in Eric Dampier... in his Finals...no doubt he would have been putting up 30-40-and 50 point playoff games against them.


So, next time someone claims that Wilt was NOT a Top-5 playoff performer...well, they would be wrong.

[aj1987]

The excuses for the choking mental midget continue:

Again, REALITY:

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5

I'll give Ilt Chokerlain some credit though. He definitely is in the top 15-20 range. Right there with Barkley and KG.

[LAZERUSS]

Two can play that game...


Gotta love the Ajackoffs of this site. CONTEXT. He has no clue what that means.

Scoring? How about post-season runs of 28, 29, 33, 35, 35, and 37 ppg? How about post-season series of 37, 37, 39, and 39 ppg? How about post-season series of 28-30, 29-28, 30-31, 31-27, and 34-27 against RUSSELL? How about 13 playoff games of 40+...11 of which came in his 52 playoff games in his "scoring" seasons (21% for those keeping track.) How about MUST WIN games of 45-27 (Finals BTW), 46-34 (against RUSSELL BTW), 50-22, 50-35 (against RUSSELL BTW), and even a 56-35-12 game? As well as another 50 point game in the '64 WDF's. Or series clinching games of 30-32, 30-26, 38-26, and 39-26-10?

How about his MUST WIN playoff games? In his 23 must win playoff games...

31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

How about his 37 MUST WIN, and SERIES CLINCHING playoff games?

29.5 ppg, 26.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, and on a .546 FG% (again, in post-seasons that shot .435 in that span...or nearly TWELVE percentage points above the league average.)


Rebounding? Simply...the GOAT post-season rebounder in NBA history. Yes, Russell had a slightly higher average... 24.9 rpg to 24.5 rpg...BUT, in their eight playoff series H2H's, Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of them. Including margins of 5, 6, and even 9 rpg! Oh, Chamberlain is also the all-time FINALS leading rebounder with a career average of 24.6 rpg.

He played in 13 post-seasons, and his LOW was 20.2 rpg. He also had post-seasons of 28, 29, and even 30 rpg. And he had series of 30 and 31 rpg (both against RUSSELL BTW.) In his LAST post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games... 22.5 rpg, in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (just this last season the NBA averaged 42.0 rpg.) That translates to 19 rpg in the '16 playoffs. In his LAST season.

He played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of them. He was outrebounded by PF Jerry Lucas in ONE...and by a 21.0 to 20.0 rpg margin/ However, when the two faced each other as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded the 31 year old Lacas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.

Wilt was outrebounding Reed by 14 rpg, Thurmond by 7 rpg, and Russell by 9 rpg.


Playoff RECORDS? Surely this "declining" Wilt would not have any post-season records, right? How about, and by far, the most 20-20 games, the most 30-20 games, the most 20-30 games, the most 30-30 games, the most 40-20 games, the most 40-30 games, the most 50-20 games, and the most 50-30 games? How about the most post-seasons of 20-20, 30-20, 30-25, 35-20?


Blocked shots? Tim Duncan just retired with the "official" post-season blocked shot record of 568 in his 251 playoff games. Well nbastats.net contributor, Julizaver found blocked shot data for 81 of Wilt's 160 post-season games...or roughly half (and almost all of it from the mid-60's on)...and... 590 blocked shots...in 81 games! Hell, an old Wilt blocked 33 shots in his '72 WCF's in the four known games of that series, and 15 of those were on KAJ!

Defense? Wilt held Russell to playoff series FG%'s of .399, .397, .386, and .358 (in a season in which Russell shot .454 against the NBA.) He held Thurmond to playoff series of .392, .373, and .343 (a PEAK Nate BTW...and in a season in which Thurmond shot .437 against the NBA.) He held Bellamy to .450 in a season in which Bellamy shot .521 against the NBA, and then to .421 in a season in which Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA. Oh, can't forget Kareem, either. KAJ shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in '71 and '72. Against Wilt in those two post-seasons? .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

How about Wilt's FG% in his six Finals? .559...all while holding his opposing centers (all in the HOF BTW)...to a combined .439. Or how about his two game seven's of the Finals? He outshot Reed and Russell by a combined .708 to .333 margin (all while averaging 19.5 ppg and 25.5 rpg.)


Passing? Find me a CENTER who averaged 9.0 apg in an entire playoff run (which, BTW, led the post-season that year.) Or a center who had two straight triple-double series (28-27-11, and 22-32-10)?


Of course, had a PRIME Wilt faced the likes of a washed Smits, or a 35 year old Mutombo (whom Shaq was allowed to beat to a bloody pulp in some of the most disgraceful offciating in Finals history), or a never-was in the career 6 ppg scoring MacCulloch, or the complete bust in Eric Dampier... in his Finals...no doubt he would have been putting up 30-40-and 50 point playoff games against them.


So, next time someone claims that Wilt was NOT a Top-5 playoff performer...well, they would be wrong.

In fact...

GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[aj1987]

Has anyone who's considered to be an "ATG" had a dropoff as bad an Ilt Chokerlain? Nope. Keep them excuses coming though, retard.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5

[Mr Feeny]

The excuses for the choking mental midget continue:

Again, REALITY:

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5

I'll give Ilt Chokerlain some credit though. He definitely is in the top 15-20 range. Right there with Barkley and KG.

I'm no fan of AJ but he pretty much shut down this thread. These numbers are embarassing:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

I'm no fan of AJ but he pretty much shut down this thread. These numbers are embarassing:oldlol:

Yep...just like these embarrassing numbers...




Gotta love the Ajackoffs of this site. CONTEXT. He has no clue what that means.

Scoring? How about post-season runs of 28, 29, 33, 35, 35, and 37 ppg? How about post-season series of 37, 37, 39, and 39 ppg? How about post-season series of 28-30, 29-28, 30-31, 31-27, and 34-27 against RUSSELL? How about 13 playoff games of 40+...11 of which came in his 52 playoff games in his "scoring" seasons (21% for those keeping track.) How about MUST WIN games of 45-27 (Finals BTW), 46-34 (against RUSSELL BTW), 50-22, 50-35 (against RUSSELL BTW), and even a 56-35-12 game? As well as another 50 point game in the '64 WDF's. Or series clinching games of 30-32, 30-26, 38-26, and 39-26-10?

How about his MUST WIN playoff games? In his 23 must win playoff games...

31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

How about his 37 MUST WIN, and SERIES CLINCHING playoff games?

29.5 ppg, 26.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, and on a .546 FG% (again, in post-seasons that shot .435 in that span...or nearly TWELVE percentage points above the league average.)


Rebounding? Simply...the GOAT post-season rebounder in NBA history. Yes, Russell had a slightly higher average... 24.9 rpg to 24.5 rpg...BUT, in their eight playoff series H2H's, Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of them. Including margins of 5, 6, and even 9 rpg! Oh, Chamberlain is also the all-time FINALS leading rebounder with a career average of 24.6 rpg.

He played in 13 post-seasons, and his LOW was 20.2 rpg. He also had post-seasons of 28, 29, and even 30 rpg. And he had series of 30 and 31 rpg (both against RUSSELL BTW.) In his LAST post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games... 22.5 rpg, in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (just this last season the NBA averaged 42.0 rpg.) That translates to 19 rpg in the '16 playoffs. In his LAST season.

He played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of them. He was outrebounded by PF Jerry Lucas in ONE...and by a 21.0 to 20.0 rpg margin/ However, when the two faced each other as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded the 31 year old Lacas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.

Wilt was outrebounding Reed by 14 rpg, Thurmond by 7 rpg, and Russell by 9 rpg.


Playoff RECORDS? Surely this "declining" Wilt would not have any post-season records, right? How about, and by far, the most 20-20 games, the most 30-20 games, the most 20-30 games, the most 30-30 games, the most 40-20 games, the most 40-30 games, the most 50-20 games, and the most 50-30 games? How about the most post-seasons of 20-20, 30-20, 30-25, 35-20?


Blocked shots? Tim Duncan just retired with the "official" post-season blocked shot record of 568 in his 251 playoff games. Well nbastats.net contributor, Julizaver found blocked shot data for 81 of Wilt's 160 post-season games...or roughly half (and almost all of it from the mid-60's on)...and... 590 blocked shots...in 81 games! Hell, an old Wilt blocked 33 shots in his '72 WCF's in the four known games of that series, and 15 of those were on KAJ!

Defense? Wilt held Russell to playoff series FG%'s of .399, .397, .386, and .358 (in a season in which Russell shot .454 against the NBA.) He held Thurmond to playoff series of .392, .373, and .343 (a PEAK Nate BTW...and in a season in which Thurmond shot .437 against the NBA.) He held Bellamy to .450 in a season in which Bellamy shot .521 against the NBA, and then to .421 in a season in which Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA. Oh, can't forget Kareem, either. KAJ shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in '71 and '72. Against Wilt in those two post-seasons? .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

How about Wilt's FG% in his six Finals? .559...all while holding his opposing centers (all in the HOF BTW)...to a combined .439. Or how about his two game seven's of the Finals? He outshot Reed and Russell by a combined .708 to .333 margin (all while averaging 19.5 ppg and 25.5 rpg.)


Passing? Find me a CENTER who averaged 9.0 apg in an entire playoff run (which, BTW, led the post-season that year.) Or a center who had two straight triple-double series (28-27-11, and 22-32-10)?


Of course, had a PRIME Wilt faced the likes of a washed Smits, or a 35 year old Mutombo (whom Shaq was allowed to beat to a bloody pulp in some of the most disgraceful offciating in Finals history), or a never-was in the career 6 ppg scoring MacCulloch, or the complete bust in Eric Dampier... in his Finals...no doubt he would have been putting up 30-40-and 50 point playoff games against them.


So, next time someone claims that Wilt was NOT a Top-5 playoff performer...well, they would be wrong.

In fact...

GOAT.

[aj1987]

I'm no fan of AJ but he pretty much shut down this thread. These numbers are embarassing:oldlol:
Ilt Chokerlain's mental midget ass getting exposed has thoroughly ruined Loozerus.

[LAZERUSS]

Ilt Chokerlain's mental midget ass getting exposed has thoroughly ruined Loozerus.

That would be 3" LeChoke my friend.

Interesting too, that LeChoke needed a Ray Allen miracle (after a wild miss by LeChoke BTW), and a clutch Kyrie shot, from going "1-7."

[aj1987]

That would be 3" LeChoke my friend.
Why are you obsessed with LeBron's *****? I've seen you post that a couple of dozen times?


Interesting too, that LeChoke needed a Ray Allen miracle (after a wild miss by LeChoke BTW), and a clutch Kyrie shot, from going "1-7."
Even if Kyrie missed the shot, the game was tied.

The mental midget had a teammate score 38/5/7 on 49% and still lost the Finals. This was after being up 2-0 and 3-2. Talk about choking. :roll: :roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Why are you obsessed with LeBron's *****? I've seen you post that a couple of dozen times?


Even if Kyrie missed the shot, the game was tied.

The mental midget had a teammate score 38/5/7 on 49% and still lost the Finals. This was after being up 2-0 and 3-2. Talk about choking. :roll: :roll:


I have seen the term LeThick here mentioned far more (which, as everyone knows...is simply not true.)

Yep... Wilt lost in that Finals...because it was WEST (and Baylor) taking all the shots. If anyone deserves the blame...blame his COACH. Who was basically fired right after game seven. And then Wilt's new coach, Joe Mullaney came in, and immediately put Wilt in as the focal point of the offense. Chamberlain was leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG% and with 20.6 rpg) when he went down with his knee injury.

And LeChoke lost in a Finals when he scored 36 ppg, BUT, on a .398 FG%...and a .477 TS% in a Finals in which the two teams collectively shot a TS% of .498...and watched as the role player who defended him, won the FMVP.

[Mr Feeny]

That would be 3" LeChoke my friend.

Interesting too, that LeChoke needed a Ray Allen miracle (after a wild miss by LeChoke BTW), and a clutch Kyrie shot, from going "1-7."

Lebron lead both teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals and shot blocking. He put on the greatest performance in finals history you pillock :oldlol:
Who are you trying to fool? There's a reason everyone immediately put lebron in the top 3 bracket in the all time list following this finals, tiers ahead of your idols Wilt and kobe:oldlol:

You sound really upset that a player you hate just left your heros in dust!

[aj1987]

I have seen the term LeThick here mentioned far more (which, as everyone knows...is simply not true.)
And I care because? You're the one obsessed with that dudes *****.


Yep... Wilt lost in that Finals...because it was WEST (and Baylor) taking all the shots. If anyone deserves the blame...blame his COACH. Who was basically fired right after game seven. And then Wilt's new coach, Joe Mullaney came in, and immediately put Wilt in as the focal point of the offense. Chamberlain was leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG% and with 20.6 rpg) when he went down with his knee injury.
Yeah, it's always someone else's fault when it comes to the mental midget.


And LeChoke lost in a Finals when he scored 36 ppg, BUT, on a .398 FG%...and a .477 TS% in a Finals in which the two teams collectively shot a TS% of .498...and watched as the role player who defended him, won the FMVP.
Yeah, missing his 2nd and 3rd best players and another two wing players playing with injuries. Yet, he went on to take them to a 2-1 lead and would've been a 3-0, if only the game didn't go to OT. This, against a 67 win team.