So were Warriors really lucky last year to win the title?

[All Net]

All people said was it was luck due to no Love and no Kyrie and how it would of been a different series had they been available.

IF GS finish this series off will people go away from this notion that it was luck and that GS were/are the best team in basketball?

[CelticBaller]

Yeah, pretty much all those asterisks are gone by now
If anything love and kyrie are worse for the cavs

[Hopper15]

Yeah, pretty much all those asterisks are gone by now
If anything love and kyrie are worse for the cavs

Especially Kevin Love. His defense is just a joke.

[NBAGOAT]

no but I think people forget part of the reason last year's series went 6 was just the Warriors underperforming(1st year jitters imo).

[oarabbus]

I just laugh at all the Cavs fans now who tried to say that Kyrie and Love make their team that much better

Without them we lost game 2 and had to go into OT on the first two games

[DMAVS41]

Not sure the two years are this closely related. The Warriors are a whole lot better this year and were battle tested in the West as well.

Last year they weren't as good, didn't have the experience, and didn't get tested in the West.

We obviously don't know what would have happened, but a healthy Cavs team might have won.

People are ignoring that the Warriors are simply better this year.

Not to mention everyone seems to just pretend like the Cavs were responsible for the Warriors playing poorly to start the finals. They really weren't...it was clearly a combination of nerves, lack of experience, and not being tested in the West with all the breaks/injuries.

[Micku]

Not sure the two years are this closely related. The Warriors are a whole lot better this year and were battle tested in the West as well.

Last year they weren't as good, didn't have the experience, and didn't get tested in the West.

We obviously don't know what would have happened, but a healthy Cavs team might have won.

People are ignoring that the Warriors are simply better this year.

Pretty much this.

I was going to post the same thing.

This Warriors team is a different animal in-comparison to last year's team.

[All Net]

Not sure the two years are this closely related. The Warriors are a whole lot better this year and were battle tested in the West as well.

Last year they weren't as good, didn't have the experience, and didn't get tested in the West.

We obviously don't know what would have happened, but a healthy Cavs team might have won.

People are ignoring that the Warriors are simply better this year.

Not to mention everyone seems to just pretend like the Cavs were responsible for the Warriors playing poorly to start the finals. They really weren't...it was clearly a combination of nerves, lack of experience, and not being tested in the West with all the breaks/injuries.

They still win 67 games and were a great team with deadly shooters. You could argue the Cavs are a better team this year as well. So I don't think it should be dismissed.

[CelticBaller]

Not sure the two years are this closely related. The Warriors are a whole lot better this year and were battle tested in the West as well.

Last year they weren't as good, didn't have the experience, and didn't get tested in the West.

We obviously don't know what would have happened, but a healthy Cavs team might have won.

People are ignoring that the Warriors are simply better this year.

Not to mention everyone seems to just pretend like the Cavs were responsible for the Warriors playing poorly to start the finals. They really weren't...it was clearly a combination of nerves, lack of experience, and not being tested in the West with all the breaks/injuries.
They won 67 games with injuries and playing limited minutes R all the star players

I'm pretty sure this year they just were unleashed at their full potential

[Old Man River]

All people said was it was luck due to no Love and no Kyrie and how it would of been a different series had they been available.

IF GS finish this series off will people go away from this notion that it was luck and that GS were/are the best team in basketball?
love's brain is too concussed still I mean you don't heal from one in just a few days, not sure what's up with their protocols. Not an excuse, they probably lose anyway with a 100% love.

[DMAVS41]

They still win 67 games and were a great team with deadly shooters. You could argue the Cavs are a better team this year as well. So I don't think it should be dismissed.

The Cavs are better.

I'm saying that last year the Cavs might have won. I'm not dismissing it all.

The problem is that comparing the two years like the Warriors would have won last year because they are winning this year is kind of stupid.

Last year the Warriors were simply not as good. This is a fact.

In addition to that...they had less experience and didn't face any adversity like they did this year. This year they were pushed and tested in the West and I'd argue that made them ready for the finals in a way they simply weren't last year.

Maybe even most importantly...the nerves are not there. Last year the entire team went into a funk for a stretch...and if they go into that same funk against a healthy Cavs team...maybe they can't dig out of it like they did.

I don't know, but I don't think it's nearly as direct of a comparison as you do.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I remember when Cav fans and LeBron homers laughed their assess off at the notion. :oldlol: Not long-term but in a series against the Warriors, with Love and Kyrie, you're less worried about slowing the tempo and playing defense, and instead, play into the Warriors gameplan trying to outshoot and score an ATG offense.

Like trying to beat SSOL playing their style, when they're masters at it...

[jlip]

What DMAVS said.

It is possible for teams with the same personnel to improve or worsen over time, and we have seen it down through the years. This season's Warriors is better than last season's team. I believe that a healthy Cavs had a better chance of beating last year's Warriors than this season's Warriors.

[Inferno]

No asterisks for winning the title.

[Dragonyeuw]

They may have won even if they just had Kyrie and not Love, as Lebron would have had that second scoring presence he needed in that series. This year's Warriors team is better, Steph is better( though in this series not showing it till last night), so not really comparable situations. The other reality is, the Warriors coming off the OKC series were primed to play at a whole nother level. Cleveland moonwalked through the East with only a minor bump in Toronto, but there was never any doubt they'd be in the finals. It took Cleveland 3 games to adjust to the difference in competition, no more evident than game 2 when the seemed shell-shocked and completely overmatched.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Ive been saying this for a year; 2015 cavs finals mvp was delly not le39%. Glad this year proves it for the boxscore whores.


I LOVE IT!

[Hardjelly]

GSW had the best defense IIRC last year, arguably the best bench and the best player on the planet. Luck had very little to do with it. One team plays an unselfish brand of basketball while the other team doesn't. It's not hard to see the team that shares and welcome success for one another trumps a team that prioritizes individual brands. We see the same thing this year as well. It was "lucky" for Cleveland to steal 2 games last year.

[warriorfan]

people finna say that even though warriors beat the cavs this year while they were healthy, if the cavs were healthy last year they would of won

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[plowking]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The answer is no still though.

[West-Side]

Curry, Bogut, Iggy all injured.
Green's BS suspension.
Klay just playing like shit.

Still, Cleveland barely escaped with a win.

[ArbitraryWater]

The answer is no still though.

no to what? No as in, they would have won with Love and Irving playing? Dont know if it makes sense to argue with you on anything if you believe that :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Curry, Bogut, Iggy all injured.
Green's BS suspension.
Klay just playing like shit.

Still, Cleveland barely escaped with a win.

You're on some SexSymbol shit bruh... have to add you to ignore. All of this is either wrong or irrelevant (Klay playing like shit lol)

[MintBerryCrunch]

Given that all I heard this year was that the Warriors were better than last year, and they still lost to a finally healthy Cavs, of course they were lucky. This just showed that the Cavs would have killed them last year if healthy.

[IMObjective]

You're on some SexSymbol shit bruh... have to add you to ignore. All of this is either wrong or irrelevant (Klay playing like shit lol)klay did play like shit yesterday. Pretty underwhelming overall the whole series, save game 6.

[Goldrush25]

Curry, Bogut, Iggy all injured.
Green's BS suspension.
Klay just playing like shit.

Still, Cleveland barely escaped with a win.


All that tells me is they don't have the horses to make it to the finish line when they're being challenged.

[ArbitraryWater]

klay did play like shit yesterday. Pretty underwhelming overall the whole series, save game 6.

What does Klay playing like shit have to do with an excuse? Klay was alright, better than last year, and better than Curry, the freakin MVP, this year.. just dumb. You dumb for entertaining it.

[plowking]

no to what? No as in, they would have won with Love and Irving playing? Dont know if it makes sense to argue with you on anything if you believe that :lol


Interesting.

You apply context to the team you like, but then it goes out the window when talking about the other team.
What proof is there that they win last year? There isn't. GSW dusted them.

I can use the same retarded logic you use and say that if Bogut and Curry were fully healthy, and Draymond wasn't suspended, then GSW win.

You know why you can't argue your point? Because it is wrong. GSW won last year. That is the only certainty. Your counter argument will never be.
Warriors were better last year, Cleveland was better this year.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Where is that Inferno f.aggot at? F.ucking clown :oldlol:

[IMObjective]

What does Klay playing like shit have to do with an excuse? Klay was alright, better than last year, and better than Curry, the freakin MVP, this year.. just dumb. You dumb for entertaining it.
Don't get your panties in a bunch, I just saw you laughing at the notion Klay played like shit, and I thought klay kinda did. Curry was kinda shitty too and choked hard yesterday. Not a stan so it's not about that, your man crush had a great legacy boosting series, all right?

[ArbitraryWater]

Interesting.

You apply context to the team you like, but then it goes out the window when talking about the other team.
What proof is there that they win last year? There isn't. GSW dusted them.

I can use the same retarded logic you use and say that if Bogut and Curry were fully healthy, and Draymond wasn't suspended, then GSW win.

You know why you can't argue your point? Because it is wrong. GSW won last year. That is the only certainty. Your counter argument will never be.
Warriors were better last year, Cleveland was better this year.

thats a pretty long winded way of saying 'GSW won last year I dont care about alternatives or context' mate

[plowking]

thats a pretty long winded way of saying 'GSW won last year I dont care about alternatives or context' mate

Kinda like how you don't care about it this time?

Warriors would have won if Bogut was healthy and Green didn't get suspended. Wow, that was easy!

[Kiddlovesnets]

Nope, they were well-deserved champion last year. The Warriors had the best offense and defense last year in the league. This year's Warriors, the offense was still as good but defense really stink, struggling against even the Blazers. Injuries are a part of the game, it helped the Warriors last year and backfired this year, but overall Jesus is fair to everyone.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kinda like how you don't care about it this time?

Warriors would have won if Bogut was healthy and Green didn't get suspended. Wow, that was easy!

but why would we give them an excuse for the Green suspension? Shit makes no sense. Its a suspension. The Bogut stuff you dont even believe yourself.

[plowking]

but why would we give them an excuse for the Green suspension? Shit makes no sense. Its a suspension. The Bogut stuff you dont even believe yourself.

I agreed with the suspension, but many thought it was controversial.

Curry tore his MCL too. Iggy clearly wasn't right.

Argument is pointless. You're too much of a kid to admit one team was better one year, and the other the next.

[ArbitraryWater]

I agreed with the suspension, but many thought it was controversial.

Curry tore his MCL too. Iggy clearly wasn't right.

Argument is pointless. You're too much of a kid to admit one team was better one year, and the other the next.

Iggy wasnt right for 3 qrts.. thats as much as Irving wasnt right for that SAME GAME (leaving this out, no?)... youre like the only 'rational' guy on here who still clings to the Curry MCL stuff. Leave it be.

[plowking]

Iggy wasnt right for 3 qrts.. thats as much as Irving wasnt right for that SAME GAME (leaving this out, no?)... youre like the only 'rational' guy on here who still clings to the Curry MCL stuff. Leave it be.

I think he was injured... What do you want me to say?

This Cleveland title was way bigger than the Warriors last season. Enjoy it. I know you like Bron, but the Warriors were better last year.

[Indian guy]

Oh, absolutely.

If there's one thing this Finals made clear, it's that Cleveland would've won last year with a healthy roster. Or even with just Kyrie healthy. They were the exact same team last season with slightly worse O but far better D, whereas GS was definitely a notch below this year's version. A lot easier to guard.

[HylianNightmare]

Yes

[Prime_Shaq]

Its not really luck, even with Kyrie/Love healthy we wouldn't know how things would play out. Warriors were hungry for a title, they may have been a little complacent this year? Would Kyrie have as much fire as he had without missing last year's Finals?

These types of hypotheticals are just hard to say who is right or wrong. The facts we do have are
Warriors 2015 NBA Champions
Cavaliers 2016 NBA Champions

[ArbitraryWater]

Its not really luck, even with Kyrie/Love healthy we wouldn't know how things would play out. Warriors were hungry for a title, they may have been a little complacent this year? Would Kyrie have as much fire as he had without missing last year's Finals?

These types of hypotheticals are just hard to say who is right or wrong. The facts we do have are
Warriors 2015 NBA Champions
Cavaliers 2016 NBA Champions

stop :roll:

Its clear as day light considering CLE was likely better last year, and GSW CLEARLY worse...

I get other instances where you wouldnt be able to tell, but this one is too obvious.

[Prime_Shaq]

stop :roll:

Its clear as day light considering CLE was likely better last year, and GSW CLEARLY worse...

I get other instances where you wouldnt be able to tell, but this one is too obvious.
As evidenced by this year's Finals though, the better team doesn't always win.

[ArbitraryWater]

As evidenced by this year's Finals though, the better team doesn't always win.

dafuq? CLE is officialy the better team now... thats Basketball, a worse team NEVER wins in a 7-game series... you dont fluke yourself into winning 4 out of 7 times.

edit: plus thats a pretty non sensical last option comment to make on your part.. really? 'the better team doesnt always win' ? Lol

[NBAGOAT]

dafuq? CLE is officialy the better team now... thats Basketball, a worse team NEVER wins in a 7-game series... you dont fluke yourself into winning 4 out of 7 times.

edit: plus thats a pretty non sensical last option comment to make on your part.. really? 'the better team doesnt always win' ? Lol

Warriors vs Mavs even if that was more just matchups.. Arguably Rockets vs the Suns twice.

[Rob123]

stop :roll:

Its clear as day light considering CLE was likely better last year, and GSW CLEARLY worse...

I get other instances where you wouldnt be able to tell, but this one is too obvious.


You're clearly retarded.

I was rooting for Cleveland both finals but to say with such certainty that something would have happened in the past because of x happening in the future is the definition of being retarded.

You're absolutely what's wrong with America right now and I honestly kind of hope you die.

[ArbitraryWater]

Warriors vs Mavs even if that was more just matchups.. Arguably Rockets vs the Suns twice.

Nah.. better team won.

Warriors/Mavs is different, these 8-1 upsets are something else...you're right on matchups. The themes for that loss were matchups, coaching mistakes, Dirk's father in hospital, etc. already in the RS, Warriors were the only team who won the RS series over the Mavericks.

But definitely not Rockets/Suns..

Championship swagger, battle tested, mental fortitude are things in what makes a team good... and the Rockets >> Suns in those categories.

[Prime_Shaq]

dafuq? CLE is officialy the better team now... thats Basketball, a worse team NEVER wins in a 7-game series... you dont fluke yourself into winning 4 out of 7 times.

edit: plus thats a pretty non sensical last option comment to make on your part.. really? 'the better team doesnt always win' ? Lol
How many of you Bron fans were crying about how great of a team Warriors were and how much more help LeBron needed? Now after upsetting the Warriors in 7 games, Cleveland is CLEARLY better?

Another example? 2011 Heat Mavs.

[chosen_one6]

LeBron carried a bunch of scrubs to a six game series against the Warriors last season. There's no doubt that with Kyrie and Kevin they would have won last year as well. How can anyone argue otherwise?

Imagine if Steph lost Draymond and Klay last season, and the Cavs win in 6 games. Then this season the Warriors win with Dray and Klay. But the narrative would be completely different because people treat the Warriors differently than any team LeBron is on. Why? Because people just don't like LeBron, for whatever reason.

[Rocketswin2013]

Cleveland would've near swept that significantly worse GS team.

'15 Cavs were almost as good as '16 tbh. The ONLY reason I would give '16 CLE he edge over '15 is because LeBron was much better in '16 than '15 start to finish. On both ends. I feel LeBron nearly peaked in game 6 as a player ffs.

But '15 Cleveland was a much more balanced and well-rounded team when healthy. With Mozgov having his peak year whcih was a huge boost to their lineup flexibility and paint dominance.

These things are why I don't feel even somewhat bad for GSW fans. They've been so fortunate as it is.

[pegasus]

LeBron carried a bunch of scrubs to a six game series against the Warriors last season. There's no doubt that with Kyrie and Kevin they would have won last year as well. How can anyone argue otherwise?

Imagine if Steph lost Draymond and Klay last season, and the Cavs win in 6 games. Then this season the Warriors win with Dray and Klay. But the narrative would be completely different because people treat the Warriors differently than any team LeBron is on. Why? Because people just don't like LeBron, for whatever reason.

How can you say that when we saw how the series was playing out in the 4 four games before the injuries and the suspension happened?

[imdaman99]

I would give both these teams asterisk rings. Warriors benefitted from injuries last year and Cavs did this year + bogus suspension.

It's the only fair thing. But a ring is a ring is a ring.

[ArbitraryWater]

How many of you Bron fans were crying about how great of a team Warriors were and how much more help LeBron needed? Now after upsetting the Warriors in 7 games, Cleveland is CLEARLY better?

Another example? 2011 Heat Mavs.

CLE is better, they won, no arguments.

Nope, 2011 Mavericks were better than the Heat... LeBron choked. That was on him, and a part of his nature at the time.

How is that not legitemate? Meanwhile Dirk went god mode in a 'now or never' setting... its legit.

Some of you trolls weird, but the bad thing is, youre highly disrespectful and ignorant, too.

[Lebron23]

Yes

[plowking]

LeBron carried a bunch of scrubs to a six game series against the Warriors last season. There's no doubt that with Kyrie and Kevin they would have won last year as well. How can anyone argue otherwise?

Imagine if Steph lost Draymond and Klay last season, and the Cavs win in 6 games. Then this season the Warriors win with Dray and Klay. But the narrative would be completely different because people treat the Warriors differently than any team LeBron is on. Why? Because people just don't like LeBron, for whatever reason.

Because they won this one in the last minute of game 7, and it was a toss up at best the entire game? Add in the fact they have a coach who better fits the team, and utilizes the players better. Add in Bogut being out. Add in Draymond not playing a game. Add in Curry possibly still being injured.

This is exactly why this forum sucks. You sit here complain about how Bron gets hated and then say dumb shit like this. The only certainty there is, is that they won a championship each. You have no idea if they were lucky last season. There is a reason you weren't posting this shit prior to the win tonight.

[ArbitraryWater]

Cleveland would've near swept that significantly worse GS team.

'15 Cavs were almost as good as '16 tbh. The ONLY reason I would give '16 CLE he edge over '15 is because LeBron was much better in '16 than '15 start to finish. On both ends. I feel LeBron nearly peaked in game 6 as a player ffs.

But '15 Cleveland was a much more balanced and well-rounded team when healthy. With Mozgov having his peak year whcih was a huge boost to their lineup flexibility and paint dominance.

These things are why I don't feel even somewhat bad for GSW fans. They've been so fortunate as it is.

Its crazy, as finals player, '16 Bron probably peaked...

but to be honest, I dont see much difference between '15 and '16... any time he had a healthy Love and Irving, he was just as good in 2015.

We forget, in game 1 of the finals last year, with Irving on the court, Bron had 41 on 54% shooting... its not a coincedence his FG% plummeted every time 1-2 best offensive help teammates were gone.

[STATUTORY]

Because they won this one in the last minute of game 7, and it was a toss up at best the entire game? Add in the fact they have a coach who better fits the team, and utilizes the players better. Add in Bogut being out. Add in Draymond not playing a game. Add in Curry possibly still being injured.

This is exactly why this forum sucks. You sit here complain about how Bron gets hated and then say dumb shit like this. The only certainty there is, is that they won a championship each. You have no idea if they were lucky last season. There is a reason you weren't posting this shit prior to the win tonight.

preach :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Because they won this one in the last minute of game 7, and it was a toss up at best the entire game? Add in the fact they have a coach who better fits the team, and utilizes the players better. Add in Bogut being out. Add in Draymond not playing a game. Add in Curry possibly still being injured.

This is exactly why this forum sucks. You sit here complain about how Bron gets hated and then say dumb shit like this. The only certainty there is, is that they won a championship each. You have no idea if they were lucky last season. There is a reason you weren't posting this shit prior to the win tonight.

Again, Green is a hot head... thats his persona. Him kicking people in the groin is nothing out of the ordinary, and the combined fouls of him, resulted in a one game suspension... thats what you live with, with a player like him. Thats a threat to happen. I dont see how it can be brought up as a reason for a reasonable alternative.

It wasnt anything unusual.

[West-Side]

How can you say that when we saw how the series was playing out in the 4 four games before the injuries and the suspension happened?

Thank you!
:roll: This forum is a joke.
Retarded Lebron fans dancing in joy because GS suffered key injuries after being up 3-1 on them. Bogut & Iggy might not be superstars but their worth to GS (in terms of match-up) is significant. Curry is clearly playing hurt. I don't know why Klay sucked so bad. The guy was awful.

[plowking]

Again, Green is a hot head... thats his persona. Him kicking people in the groin is nothing out of the ordinary, and the combined fouls of him, resulted in a one game suspension... thats what you live with, with a player like him. Thats a threat to happen. I dont see how it can be brought up as a reason for a reasonable alternative.

It wasnt anything unusual.

Well last year he wouldn't have been suspended. We saw how close it was this time with his suspension, so you could say the Cavs were lucky he got suspended and had he not, then it would have been the same result as last time.

The point is, last year they have Draymond for 7 possible games, and this year they didn't. So you can't use evidence from this year as reason to why they would win, because all things weren't held constant.

[HurricaneKid]

With a two weeks+ left in the season OKC had a 93% chance of getting the 8 seed and it looked like KD and Ibaka would be able to come back for the playoffs. Clips looked like a certainty to come out of the 4/5 and the Spurs were going to be the Conf Finals.

Instead they got the Pels in the 1st round (without their second best player in Jrue).

Memphis in the 2nd Rd (and Conley broke his face).

Houston in the third (without defensive minded Beverly out with injury)

And a Cavs team without two of their three best players in the Final.

Did they get lucky?

Oh, HELL YES. Their toughest matchup was FAR easier than most of us expected their first round to be. But you can't fault a team for beating the teams in front of them. And by winning 67 reg season games they deserved a break or two.

[ArbitraryWater]

Well last year he wouldn't have been suspended. We saw how close it was this time with his suspension, so you could say the Cavs were lucky he got suspended and had he not, then it would have been the same result as last time.

The point is, last year they have Draymond for 7 possible games, and this year they didn't. So you can't use evidence from this year as reason to why they would win, because all things weren't held constant.

I dont care about them having Green for one more possible game last year, when they didnt have Irving for 5 out of the 6 games, lol.

Is it really sooo hard to see the difference between missing Love/Irving the entire series and missing 12 MPG Bogut with a negative +/- for 2 games? :oldlol:

This isnt so hard.

[plowking]

Yes

STFU.

Enjoy your title but stop being a sore winner.

Cleveland barely won this season and you guys act like it is indisputable evidence for last season that GSW would have lost. :oldlol:

You knobs don't even believe the shit you're typing. Didn't see any of you in here before game 7 ended. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

STFU.

Enjoy your title but stop being a sore winner.

Cleveland barely won this season and you guys act like it is indisputable evidence for last season that GSW would have lost. :oldlol:

You knobs don't even believe the shit you're typing. Didn't see any of you in here before game 7 ended. :oldlol:

I'll make this even simpler for you...

2015 playoffs Cavaliers: 90/10
2016 playoff Cavaliers: 90/100

2016 playoffs Warriors: 90/100
2015 playoffs Warriors: 75/100

and there are doubts as to who would win last year? Gimme a break.. you dont even believe that yourself. Just some other weird part of some kind of principle you have with yourself. Maybe you just dont want too think of too many possible 'injustices', maybe thats how youd see the better team losing due to injuries.

[plowking]

I dont care about them having Green for one more possible game last year, when they didnt have Irving for 5 out of the 6 games, lol.



How do you not get the simplicity of what I'm trying to explain to you?

2015 Warriors have Green available for 7 out of 7 possible games. Not 6 out of 7 possible games. Yes, I am actually entertaining the idea of Kyrie having not played in your ridiculous hypothetical...

Now picture in this hypothetical that they played last year, like you are saying. Draymond plays 7 possible games in this hypothetical matchup. Somehow a 4 point Cleveland win, is enough to convince you that they would have just steamrolled GSW? :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

How do you not get the simplicity of what I'm trying to explain to you?

2015 Warriors have Green available for 7 out of 7 possible games. Not 6 out of 7 possible games. Yes, I am actually entertaining the idea of Kyrie having not played in your ridiculous hypothetical...

Now picture in this hypothetical that they played last year, like you are saying. Draymond plays 7 possible games in this hypothetical matchup. Somehow a 4 point Cleveland win, is enough to convince you that they would have just steamrolled GSW? :oldlol:

....

what exactly does Green playing a game less this year, have to do with anything last year, when they werent equal players and teams to begin with? They are different teams... face that reality.

Are you really denying Green and Klay not taking major steps in growth this year?

Irving made it last year... he was already the #1 mid range shooter, most hot scorer in the league, and had the 2 biggest scoring performances of the season, while playing at the same level in game 1 as he did during this years finals. In fact, got off quicker, took him until game 3 this year.

[plowking]

and there are doubts as to who would win last year?.

They won the entire series by 4 farking points. There were doubts with 1 minute left. There would be doubts in terms of who would win right now if they played a 7 game series again, and you're talking about last year as if it is some formality? :oldlol:

How old are you? Srs. You have the deduction skills of a 15 year old.

[ArbitraryWater]

They won the entire series by 4 farking points. There were doubts with 1 minute left. There would be doubts in terms of who would win right now if they played a 7 game series again, and you're talking about last year as if it is some formality? :oldlol:

How old are you? Srs. You have the deduction skills of a 15 year old.

Again ignoring the fact that Warriors were a significantly better team than last year and still lost :rolleyes:

lame, dude. Very lame. Try better. The 15 year old line though :oldlol:

Nice presentation of an idiot's guide to arguing.. picking up the last straw, my Aussie friend :lol

[plowking]

....

what exactly does Green playing a game less this year, have to do with anything last year, when they werent equal players and teams to begin with? They are different teams... face that reality.



Oh kind of like the Cavs this year? :oldlol:
How Kyrie was way better? You wanna go and take a look at the jump in his post season numbers from last year to this year. Go ahead. :oldlol:

The bolded is something you really need to get through your head. Different teams. Exactly. So stop acting as if you know anything with certainty had one team had more/different players.

[plowking]

Again ignoring the fact that Warriors were a significantly better team than last year and still lost :rolleyes:

lame, dude. Very lame. Try better. The 15 year old line though :oldlol:

Nice presentation of an idiot's guide to arguing.. picking up the last straw, my Aussie friend :lol

So because the Cavs won this year, they automatically would have won last year?
That is essentially your argument?

And you're saying this isn't extremely basic, child like and simple?

[imdaman99]

Again ignoring the fact that Warriors were a significantly better team than last year and still lost :rolleyes:

lame, dude. Very lame. Try better. The 15 year old line though :oldlol:

Nice presentation of an idiot's guide to arguing.. picking up the last straw, my Aussie friend :lol
Warriors were healthy last year so no they were not the better team this year at the end. Iggy who won Finals MVP looked like a shell of himself this year plus Bogut was hurt. You gonna dispute his impact after watching Ezeli look like the worst player in the league? :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

So because the Cavs won this year, they automatically would have won last year?
That is essentially your argument?

And you're saying this isn't extremely basic, child like and simple?

The point is, they didnt change much as a team.. they were as dominant last year as this.

Meanwhile, the Warriors were obviously, right infront of our own eyes, took off this year... Thompson and Green became all-stars, and became more playoff adjusted.

Its like you cant see this though. Its very simple, but already too much context for you.

[chosen_one6]

Because they won this one in the last minute of game 7, and it was a toss up at best the entire game? Add in the fact they have a coach who better fits the team, and utilizes the players better. Add in Bogut being out. Add in Draymond not playing a game. Add in Curry possibly still being injured.

This is exactly why this forum sucks. You sit here complain about how Bron gets hated and then say dumb shit like this. The only certainty there is, is that they won a championship each. You have no idea if they were lucky last season. There is a reason you weren't posting this shit prior to the win tonight.

The Warriors had everything going for them this season, and got to face the Cavs twice. You don't think they gameplanned better the second time around? If Kyrie and Kevin Love being out didn't matter, and LeBron got 2 games against the Warriors, almost 3, how can you say the Cavs would not have won the first time around as well with full health? Plus, the Warriors were the healthiest championship team ever last season. NO ONE got hurt on their run, but everyone they played had key players that were hurt. This season, their luck ran out. Law of averages homie.

And I don't post shit in this forum because nothing but garbage is ever posted. The OTC forum is even worse. This forum is where people say things online that they'd never say to anyone's face. Almost as bad as YouTube and Facebook comments.

[ArbitraryWater]

Warriors were healthy last year so no they were not the better team this year at the end. Iggy who won Finals MVP looked like a shell of himself this year plus Bogut was hurt. You gonna dispute his impact after watching Ezeli look like the worst player in the league? :lol

Iggy looked like a shell of himself? Iggy led the Warriors in +/- just like last yr through 6 games :oldlol: Even scored at a HIGHER rate dude... it was literally the same Iggy, who then was hurt for 3 quarters. Stop it. The myths are pathetic.

12 MPG Bogut missing 2 games isnt enough to stack up against a series of Irving/Love, a Warriors team not good enough yet to take as much advantage of Love as this years team. In fact, they got blitzed by the Cavs last year during the single Love encounter.

[Knoe Itawl]

Yeah, pretty much all those asterisks are gone by now
If anything love and kyrie are worse for the cavs
:roll:

[imdaman99]

Iggy looked like a shell of himself? Iggy led the Warriors in +/- just like last yr through 6 games :oldlol: Even scored at a HIGHER rate dude... it was literally the same Iggy, who then was hurt for 3 quarters. Stop it. The myths are pathetic.

12 MPG Bogut missing 2 games isnt enough to stack up against a series of Irving/Love, a Warriors team not good enough yet to take as much advantage of Love as this years team. In fact, they got blitzed by the Cavs last year during the single Love encounter.
Steve Kerr was forced to put Ezeli back in the game with a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter. And what does Ezeli do? Foul Lebron on a 3 :biggums:

That was the turning point of the quarter, when the Warriors looked ready to take over after scoring 4 in a row (points were at a premium last night). Believe it or not, even if the Warriors had Bogut for the last 4 mins of the game changes the outcome of the series. Is that so hard to believe?

[plowking]

The point is, they didnt change much as a team.. they were as dominant last year as this.

Meanwhile, the Warriors were obviously, right infront of our own eyes, took off this year... Thompson and Green became all-stars, and became more playoff adjusted.

Its like you cant see this though. Its very simple, but already too much context for you.

Where was this opinion before game 7 though? :oldlol:

So a team that needed the greatest comeback of all time, and being the first team ever to come back from 3-1 down, would just win against the same team last year if they were just healthy.

Of course it is simple. Sports is simple. It is why we don't even play the games out anymore. We have people like you who can just tell us who would win.


I'm not even going to bother discussing this. I refrained from calling you an idiot, but your replies are literally of the "I know you are, but what am I" variety. You're becoming more repetitive than 3ball in here.
Keep talking in certainties when it comes to sports though. We've all seen that is how sports works. Shit just carries over that simply.

I mean it is exactly why the Heat were able to beat the Spurs twice for the championship. They already played the year before, the Heat won, so they automatically won the 2014 championship. That is just the way it works. Oh wait, no, it isn't.

[ArbitraryWater]

Steve Kerr was forced to put Ezeli back in the game with a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter. And what does Ezeli do? Foul Lebron on a 3 :biggums:

That was the turning point of the quarter, when the Warriors looked ready to take over after scoring 4 in a row (points were at a premium last night). Believe it or not, even if the Warriors had Bogut for the last 4 mins of the game changes the outcome of the series. Is that so hard to believe?

Really? You will try to put that single play as difference maker, like Bogut is a god defending you at the 3 point line? :oldlol:

Who says hed even have been on the court? Chances are he wouldnt, since he only played 12/48 MPG. That wasnt the turning point, either... game was tired for 4 minutes straight.

[ArbitraryWater]

Where was this opinion before game 7 though? :oldlol:

So a team that needed the greatest comeback of all time, and being the first team ever to come back from 3-1 down, would just win against the same team last year if they were just healthy.

Of course it is simple. Sports is simple. It is why we don't even play the games out anymore. We have people like you who can just tell us who would win.


I'm not even going to bother discussing this. I refrained from calling you an idiot, but your replies are literally of the "I know you are, but what am I" variety. You're becoming more repetitive than 3ball in here.
Keep talking in certainties when it comes to sports though. We've all seen that is how sports works. Shit just carries over that simply.

I mean it is exactly why the Heat were able to beat the Spurs twice for the championship. They already played the year before, the Heat won, so they automatically won the 2014 championship. That is just the way it works. Oh wait, no, it isn't.

Thing is, we know you have a hard on for Steph and these Warriors... I dont know where the bias for them is coming from but its apparent. Its why you still havent commentated on the teams strength during last year, and during this year... :oldlol: dodging like Floyd lol

[plowking]

The Warriors had everything going for them this season, and got to face the Cavs twice. You don't think they gameplanned better the second time around? If Kyrie and Kevin Love being out didn't matter, and LeBron got 2 games against the Warriors, almost 3, how can you say the Cavs would not have won the first time around as well with full health? Plus, the Warriors were the healthiest championship team ever last season. NO ONE got hurt on their run, but everyone they played had key players that were hurt. This season, their luck ran out. Law of averages homie.



How can I say they wouldn't have won with full health?

I dunno, because they barely won this year? Because sports is funny and things can play out in so many different ways.

Both you and AW can answer this actually. If CLE and GSW were to play this series 100 more times, how many would each win?

[ArbitraryWater]

How can I say they wouldn't have won with full health?

I dunno, because they barely won this year? Because sports is funny and things can play out in so many different ways.

Both you and AW can answer this actually. If CLE and GSW were to play this series 100 more times, how many would each win?

Seems like a pointless excercise... 100 times in a row? Is fatique/age taken into consideration? Is it just 100 different alternative universes? Theres no point... would be 55-45, maybe? Thats of course for the 2016 season... 2015 theres just no reason to see GSW beating a healthy Cavs squad. None.

[Sarcastic]

Of course they got lucky. They've played 2 healthy teams in the last years, and are 1-1 against them, and went 7 games in both. They've played the weaker teams in the West, and barely beat the Cavs who were depleted last year, and lost to them when healthy this year.


They are the greatest 3 point shooting team of all time, but they are actually pretty bad in the other facets of the game.

[plowking]

Thing is, we know you have a hard on for Steph and these Warriors... I dont know where the bias for them is coming from but its apparent. Its why you still havent commentated on the teams strength during last year, and during this year... :oldlol: dodging like Floyd lol

You do realize how dumb you sound talking in certainties don't you? I'm being serious here. Not even trying to get at you or anything. It is dumb on the same level as the idiots on here who promise one team, or one player will do something of which they have no control over. A reason we have threads like imnew promising to eat a dildo if GSW lose.

I'm not commenting on it because it doesn't matter. I don't think I ever even said who I think would win. I'm commenting on the stupidity of people on here like yourself acting as if it is a lock, or a certainty.

The point is, were the Warriors lucky to face a few injured teams on the way to the finals and in the finals themselves last year? Sure.
Do we know if the Cavs would have beaten them with a fully healthy team? Nope. No idea.

[ArbitraryWater]

Of course they got lucky. They've played 2 healthy teams in the last years, and are 1-1 against them, and were nearly 0-2. They've played the weaker teams in the West, and barely beat the Cavs who were depleted last year, and lost to them when healthy this year.


They are the greatest 3 point shooting team of all time, but they are actually pretty bad in the other facets of the game.

stop making sense!!11! Green was suspended once! Dont you know that just because they won this year doesnt mean they would have won last?!?!??!

[plowking]

Seems like a pointless excercise... 100 times in a row? Is fatique/age taken into consideration? Is it just 100 different alternative universes? Theres no point... would be 55-45, maybe? Thats of course for the 2016 season... 2015 theres just no reason to see GSW beating a healthy Cavs squad. None.

55-45?

But you just told me with absolute certainty that the Cavs last year would not lose if healthy to the Warriors based on this result. Yet you can't with absolute certainty tell me this years Cavs would beat this years Warriors with absolute certainty? :oldlol:

And with that, I'm done here. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

You do realize how dumb you sound talking in certainties don't you? I'm being serious here. Not even trying to get at you or anything. It is dumb on the same level as the idiots on here who promise one team, or one player will do something of which they have no control over. A reason we have threads like imnew promising to eat a dildo if GSW lose.

I'm not commenting on it because it doesn't matter. I don't think I ever even said who I think would win. I'm commenting on the stupidity of people on here like yourself acting as if it is a lock, or a certainty.

The point is, were the Warriors lucky to face a few injured teams on the way to the finals and in the finals themselves last year? Sure.
Do we know if the Cavs would have beaten them with a fully healthy team? Nope. No idea.

Yea, shts really hard when all indicators point that way man....

Is the Great Dane bigger than a Chihuahua? Who knows, honestly?

[ArbitraryWater]

55-45?

But you just told me with absolute certainty that the Cavs last year would not lose if healthy to the Warriors based on this result. Yet you can't with absolute certainty tell me this years Cavs would beat this years Warriors with absolute certainty? :oldlol:

And with that, I'm done here. :oldlol:

Its based on the simple fact this series was competitive, even with GSW being a significantly stronger team than last year... too hard to grasp? You'll come back anyway.

Like I said, senseless excercice to begin with. Cavs won, and the Warriors werent near to this years level last year. Thats something you cant handle, and thus wont adress.

[plowking]

Yea, shts really hard when all indicators point that way man....

Is the Great Dane bigger than a Chihuahua? Who knows, honestly?

Why play 2 games at home and 2 games away in the season anyway?

We just gotta use AW's deduction and reasoning skills and we can deduce who would win based on the last game if all things are constant. Well 90% constant... Well more kinda constant... Well more constant, but only the things that favour my argument constant...

Ya know?

[moongaze]

Yes they were lucky and should hand their fake trophy over to Cleveland . Everything I said in response to the stupid notion of cavs being better without love and Irving was proven right.

People said irvings lack of defense would kill them against golden stste and the cavs won twice last year because they had better defenders in Delly and Thompson as opposed to Kyrie and love. Well, curry had a worse finals this year statistically compared to last year. I also that for all his defense, Delly could never match Curry's production and that Kyrie could match it and exceed it. He did so. Kevin love also had the highest +/- in game 7 and the cavs wo with him.

So I was right and my prediction has always been that a healthy cavs would have beaten last year's golden state in 5 games.

[livinglegend]

The series was 2-1.
Cavs had guys like Shawn Marion and James Jones in the rotation ( because Love was injured).
Cavs made a competitive series without Kyrie ( the guy who outplayed Curry in game1).
With more depth and more options offensively, Cavs would win. 2015 Warriors were the luckiest team ever.

[plowking]

Its based on the simple fact this series was competitive, even with GSW being a significantly stronger team than last year... too hard to grasp? You'll come back anyway.

Like I said, senseless excercice to begin with. Cavs won, and the Warriors werent near to this years level last year. Thats something you cant handle, and thus wont adress.

Yes they were. All stats point to them being extremely similar. 67 wins in a better Western Conference vs 73 wins this year.

They were better defensively last season too.

And how about you address the fact that Kyrie was far better this season, as was Love.
Are you going to sit and ignore the fact Kyrie couldn't crack 20ppg scoring in the playoffs last season, and now he is a 25ppg scorer in the playoffs this season? Just make a note about it in your next post.

[Sarcastic]

Just look at the competition the last 2 years.

2015
Pelicans - missing Jrue Holiday
Memphis - Conley had various injuries, including a broken face.
Rockets - missing Pat Beverly
Cavs - missing Kyrie and Love

2016
Rockets - just an awful team
Portland - should not have been there; only won because CP3/Blake injuries
OKC - healthy team; pushed Warriors to 7 and were up 3-1
Cavs - healthy team; lost


There are very few paths in the history of the NBA where a team sees as easy/hurt competition as this.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why play 2 games at home and 2 games away in the season anyway?

We just gotta use AW's deduction and reasoning skills and we can deduce who would win based on the last game if all things are constant. Well 90% constant... Well more kinda constant... Well more constant, but only the things that favour my argument constant...

Ya know?

How am I to take you seriously when you dont even take yourself seriously? You cant even decide on staying or not :oldlol:


Where was this opinion before game 7 though? :oldlol:

So a team that needed the greatest comeback of all time, and being the first team ever to come back from 3-1 down, would just win against the same team last year if they were just healthy.

Of course it is simple. Sports is simple. It is why we don't even play the games out anymore. We have people like you who can just tell us who would win.


I'm not even going to bother discussing this. I refrained from calling you an idiot, but your replies are literally of the "I know you are, but what am I" variety. You're becoming more repetitive than 3ball in here.
Keep talking in certainties when it comes to sports though. We've all seen that is how sports works. Shit just carries over that simply.

I mean it is exactly why the Heat were able to beat the Spurs twice for the championship. They already played the year before, the Heat won, so they automatically won the 2014 championship. That is just the way it works. Oh wait, no, it isn't.


55-45?

But you just told me with absolute certainty that the Cavs last year would not lose if healthy to the Warriors based on this result. Yet you can't with absolute certainty tell me this years Cavs would beat this years Warriors with absolute certainty? :oldlol:

And with that, I'm done here. :oldlol:

Get that sorted out, then come back to me when you adress the Warriors last year, and this year, and the difference in level of play....

I'LL BE WAITING, skippy :cheers:

[moongaze]

Mental edge plays a big part in any matchup. After losing the finals while injured then losing the regular season matchups while recovering from injuries the cavs were unsure of themselves against golden state. That's why they lost the first two games. After winning have 3, that mental edge golden state had went away and they went on to lose the next 4 out of 5 games. . 4-1 like I predicted last year. The games weren't that close, either. The cavs led for all but 14 minutes in game 3,5,6 wins and had the lead longer in the second half last night.

Plowking is like those idiots that claimed the cavs were better without love and irving

[plowking]

How am I to take you seriously when you dont even take yourself seriously? You cant even decide on staying or not :oldlol:





Get that sorted out, then come back to me when you adress the Warriors last year, and this year, and the difference in level of play....

I'LL BE WAITING, skippy :cheers:

You keep making dumb posts and tempting me back. I'm a sucker for continually proving you wrong. :oldlol:

You still have not addressed that last post you quoted. :oldlol:
And the fact Kyrie and Love were both better this year, and the fact they were under new coaching.

[ArbitraryWater]

Um.... Kyrie and Love werent better this year. Kyrie made further progression likely, but he was already at this level of greatness last year.

Love? Are you serious? Have you watched any ball this year? Love was better this year.

Green was a 12/8/4 on 44% player last year lol... and you think making a point on how he'd play all 7 games is some kind of difference maker?

Mate, please for once, just think about what you're saying...

Thompson's ppg went up by five points this post-season...

Curry had the biggest ppg rise from an MVP ever...

ADRESS!

[Xoush]

Just look at the competition the last 2 years.

2015
Pelicans - missing Jrue Holiday
Memphis - Conley had various injuries, including a broken face.
Rockets - missing Pat Beverly
Cavs - missing Kyrie and Love

2016
Rockets - just an awful team
Portland - should not have been there; only won because CP3/Blake injuries
OKC - healthy team; pushed Warriors to 7 and were up 3-1
Cavs - healthy team; lost


There are very few paths in the history of the NBA where a team sees as easy/hurt competition as this.

Wow.
Talking about the competition your main rival faced, while taking the easy route to the final is very rich.

[plowking]

Um.... Kyrie and Love werent better this year. Kyrie made further progression likely, but he was already at this level of greatness last year.

Love? Are you serious? Have you watched any ball this year? Love was better this year.

Green was a 12/8/4 on 44% player last year lol... and you think making a point on how he'd play all 7 games is some kind of difference maker?

Mate, please for once, just think about what you're saying...

Thompson's ppg went up by five points this post-season...

Curry had the biggest ppg rise from an MVP ever...

ADRESS!

Learn how to spell address.

Love definitely was better. So was Kyrie. You don't make a 6ppg boost with better shooting for no reason. I dare you to make a thread and ask if Kyrie was better this year than last. Dare you. :oldlol:

You can point to the stats increases in the GSW players, but the fact is, they occurred due to Curry being out. Thompson went back to his usual self once Curry returned.
Green put up near identical stats over last years playoffs and this years, and when you consider the extra load he had to carry that Curry was out for all those games, it says a lot.

Yes, Curry had the biggest PPG rise... but then he wasn't himself in the playoffs. How is it that you don't understand that?

So your rebuttal for Kyrie and Love clearly being better through statistical evidence is "but they aren't"! Where as I actually gave you an explanation, not that it mattered, since once again, you cannot with certainty say that the Cavs would win last year.

Your reasoning is so simplistic and stupid, yet you seem intent on pushing it. :oldlol:

I'll put it in ways you can understand. Know how Barcelona thrashed Real Madrid without Messi earlier last season? Then Messi came back and they lost, right? Know why? Because simply adding and subtracting players doesn't guarantee anything. You acting like sports is simple addition and subtraction goes to show your little understanding of sports if you actually do believe the bullshit you're typing.

[ArbitraryWater]

First off, comparing different sports makes no sense.

I conceed Irving is growing and becoming even better, but the main point is: he already made the jump to star LAST YEAR.

For Draymond Green, it was THIS YEAR.

Irving was ALREADY outplaying Curry LAST YEAR.... get it through your thick head.

Thompson also clearly took it to another level. 37 pt quarter? Being able to shoulder a bigger load is a clear sign of progression.

There is zero evidence for Love being better this year :oldlol: Zero. His FG% actually got even worse, by 1% in the regular season, by THREE % in the post-season. All other statistics are pretty much identical.

I just read a post by DirkNowitzki41, and was reminded of how far the extent of this discussion should go:



Injured Cavs - Lose
Healthy Cavs - Win

Proof is in the pudding, boys.

..

[plowking]

Of course comparing different sports doesn't work. Apparently basketball is the only sport where your retarded theory of "add and subtract = magic" works.

Literally, the only reason you're holding on to this argument is because you stan Bron hard, and want to make his standing in basketball look better than it is. He doesn't need it bro. He may possibly be the best basketball player to ever play. He doesn't need help from you.

Go ahead and prove the Cavs would win last year. Oh wait, you can't. That is how simple it is.

[hold this L]

No? You could make a case Warriors lost since Bogut got hurt, a silly suspension and Curry playing injured. Truth is Warriors beat them last year, Cavs beat them this year. That's that. But Warriors choked it in a pretty spectacular fashion. Each team won at the other's stadium. Hoping the rivalry continues onto next year if Bron decides to stay.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No? You could make a case Warriors lost since Bogut got hurt, a silly suspension and Curry playing injured. Truth is Warriors beat them last year, Cavs beat them this year. That's that. But Warriors choked it in a pretty spectacular fashion. Each team won at the other's stadium. Hoping the rivalry continues onto next year if Bron decides to stay.

Yeah, Ezeli is just AWFUL. He doesn't play like a "big man" and has terrible hands (those loose rebounds he couldn't corral were embarrassing).

Bogut would have at least helped protect the Warriors interior defense. That and he can pass the damn ball.

[hold this L]

Yeah, Ezeli is just AWFUL. He doesn't play like a "big man" and has terrible hands (those loose rebounds he couldn't corral were embarrassing).

Bogut would have at least helped protect the Warriors interior defense. That and he can pass the damn ball.
He was better before his injury. Man came back turned into a D league player. Why Kerr put him on with 5 minutes left in g7 I'll never fcking know either :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Of course comparing different sports doesn't work. Apparently basketball is the only sport where your retarded theory of "add and subtract = magic" works.

Literally, the only reason you're holding on to this argument is because you stan Bron hard, and want to make his standing in basketball look better than it is. He doesn't need it bro. He may possibly be the best basketball player to ever play. He doesn't need help from you.

Go ahead and prove the Cavs would win last year. Oh wait, you can't. That is how simple it is.

right, but we work with hypotheticals everywhere... so do you. Youve been making posts the last few years saying Bron = MJ, when he had 2 titles to MJ's 6.. but for you, different circumstances were the reasons for those totals... so you applied hypotheticals.

We all do.

Im just saying, this is one of the easier ones :oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

yeah they were

[SilkkTheShocker]

No s.hit. *15 Warriors are the biggest asterisk title winner of all-time. Paper f.ucking champions.

[bobopenguin]

Just look at the competition the last 2 years.

2015
Pelicans - missing Jrue Holiday
Memphis - Conley had various injuries, including a broken face.
Rockets - missing Pat Beverly
Cavs - missing Kyrie and Love

2016
Rockets - just an awful team
Portland - should not have been there; only won because CP3/Blake injuries
OKC - healthy team; pushed Warriors to 7 and were up 3-1
Cavs - healthy team; lost


There are very few paths in the history of the NBA where a team sees as easy/hurt competition as this.

u forgot to add: League stepped in after 3:1.