Lebron has made more 2 point jumpers on higher efficiency than Steph and Klay.

[VengefulAngel]

This postseason

This postseason, on 2-point jumpers from 15-feet or further:

LeBron: 23-50 (46%)
Klay: 18-54 (33%)
Steph: 15-33 (45.5%)

He's had a great post-season shooting.

[DMAVS41]

I hope you at least realize how different those players are guarded...there is a reason why teams have been begging Lebron to shoot....and entire defenses try to prevent Klay and Steph from shooting.

Use your brain...

[Dray n Klay]

I hope you at least realize how different those players are guarded...there is a reason why teams have been begging Lebron to shoot....and entire defenses try to prevent Klay and Steph from shooting.

Use your brain...

ummm... in that case teams are stupid for guarding LeBron that way when he's making 46% of those shots.


Why would teams back off LeBron and beg him to shoot if he's making 46% of his jumpers?

[VengefulAngel]

I hope you at least realize how different those players are guarded...there is a reason why teams have been begging Lebron to shoot....and entire defenses try to prevent Klay and Steph from shooting.

Use your brain...

Not true at all unfortunately, the nearest defender on these jumpers actually show that Klay and Steph should be shooting more of those shots. USE your brain and go check the stats and then come back to me.

Teams chase Steph off the 3 point line but the midrange game is there for him if they choose to exploit.

Just to prove this,

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight&CF=G*G*10&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs

Steph shoots the same frequency of defender being 'tight' to Lebron from 2 and Lebron has a higher efficiency (38.9 to 52.2%)



If you can't even look up simple stats on the NBA website you are the idiot.

Lebron's problem is his shot from 3 point range, teams are giving him that until he proves he can make it on a consistent basis.

Remember there's always someone who does their research before they post ;)

[Spurs m8]

Not surprised...Wardell is so f*cking scared out there right now

[DMAVS41]

ummm... in that case teams are stupid for guarding LeBron that way when he's making 46% of those shots.


Why would teams back off LeBron and beg him to shoot if he's making 46% of his jumpers?

Teams are backing off Lebron and begging him to shoot..you act like this isn't happening every single game and the entire basketball world hasn't been talking about it.

The dude hasn't even been looking at the basket...not my words...the words of Tim Legler yesterday.

This is hilarious...

[DMAVS41]

Not true at all unfortunately, the nearest defender on these jumpers actually show that Klay and Steph should be shooting more of those shots. USE your brain and go check the stats and then come back to me.

Teams chase Steph off the 3 point line but the midrange game is there for him if they choose to exploit.

Just to prove this,

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight&CF=G*G*10&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs

Steph shoots the same frequency of defender being 'tight' to Lebron from 2 and Lebron has a higher efficiency (38.9 to 52.2%)



If you can't even look up simple stats on the NBA website you are the idiot.

Lebron's problem is his shot from 3 point range, teams are giving him that until he proves he can make it on a consistent basis.

Remember there's always someone who does their research before they post ;)


I'll try to explain this to you, but it will go over your head.

You can't use stats about where the defender is on shots taken...because you aren't accounting for the times the defender is actually taking away the shot....and tight on shots not taken. This number will be high for Steph and Klay...and it will be low for Lebron.

Using stats that account for how tight a defender is on the actual shot is exactly what you wouldn't want to look at actually. You'd want to look at the space each player is given both when they have the ball and when they don't have the ball on 2 point jumpers.

And, sorry, we don't even need the data...we know that Lebron is being given a much bigger cushion than Steph and Klay.

Also, I don't see on the link you put where that is exclusively on midrange jumpers. I just see tight coverage listed...I don't see where it says on jumpers.

[aj1987]

I'll try to explain this to you, but it will go over your head.

You can't use stats about where the defender is on shots taken...because you aren't accounting for the times the defender is actually taking away the shot....and tight on shots not taken. This number will be high for Steph and Klay...and it will be low for Lebron.

Using stats that account for how tight a defender is on the actual shot is exactly what you wouldn't want to look at actually. You'd want to look at the space each player is given both when they have the ball and when they don't have the ball on 2 point jumpers.

And, sorry, we don't even need the data...we know that Lebron is being given a much bigger cushion than Steph and Klay.
:biggums: :biggums:

Did you bump your head on something?

[Im Still Ballin]

DMAVS didn't do his homework on this one

[DMAVS41]

:biggums: :biggums:

Did you bump your head on something?

What are you confused about? Like I said...I wouldn't expect people like you to understand.

[VengefulAngel]

I'll try to explain this to you, but it will go over your head.

You can't use stats about where the defender is on shots taken...because you aren't accounting for the times the defender is actually taking away the shot....and tight on shots not taken. This number will be high for Steph and Klay...and it will be low for Lebron.

Using stats that account for how tight a defender is on the actual shot is exactly what you wouldn't want to look at actually. You'd want to look at the space each player is given both when they have the ball and when they don't have the ball on 2 point jumpers.

And, sorry, we don't even need the data...we know that Lebron is being given a much bigger cushion than Steph and Klay.

I agree with most of this but I think that you are equating the room they are giving him to take three pointers with the amount of space when he's within the 3 point line. It's also important to realise that all the quantifiable data speaks to the fact that Lebron is getting a large cushion from 3 point land this gap closes significantly when he's shooting a two point.

I also don't think you realise the whole point of this thread wasn't to compare Steph and Lebron's shooting it was to show how Lebron exploit's defenses. The whole idea is little complicated to explain for this particular forum. I can understand the fact that you seem to think I was implying that somehow Lebron is better shooter than Steph to the general quality of posts on this forum but this was not my intention.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'll try to explain this to you, but it will go over your head.

You can't use stats about where the defender is on shots taken...because you aren't accounting for the times the defender is actually taking away the shot....and tight on shots not taken. This number will be high for Steph and Klay...and it will be low for Lebron.

Using stats that account for how tight a defender is on the actual shot is exactly what you wouldn't want to look at actually. You'd want to look at the space each player is given both when they have the ball and when they don't have the ball on 2 point jumpers.

And, sorry, we don't even need the data...we know that Lebron is being given a much bigger cushion than Steph and Klay.

Also, I don't see on the link you put where that is exclusively on midrange jumpers. I just see tight coverage listed...I don't see where it says on jumpers.

Did someone lately take all your understanding/unbias or something?

Wtf is this

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS didn't do his homework on this one


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Now we have to debate whether or not teams are defending Lebron differently than Klay and Steph...

Holy shit this forum is a ****ing dumpster fire.

[DMAVS41]

I agree with most of this but I think that you are equating the room they are giving him to take three pointers with the amount of space when he's within the 3 point line. It's also important to realise that all the quantifiable data speaks to the fact that Lebron is getting a large cushion from 3 point land this gap closes significantly when he's shooting a two point.

I also don't think you realise the whole point of this thread wasn't to compare Steph and Lebron's shooting it was to show how Lebron exploit's defenses. The whole idea is little complicated to explain for this particular forum. I can understand the fact that you seem to think I was implying that somehow Lebron is better shooter than Steph to the general quality of posts on this forum but this was not my intention.

No. I'm saying they are covered differently...

Of course the defense gets closer to Lebron as he gets closer to the basket.

It doesn't change the fact that when Lebron is 17 ft...teams are still playing him to shoot...they'd rather him shoot than drive.

And when Klay and Kyrie are 17ft...teams are trying to make them drive...not shoot.

Are you denying this?

[aj1987]

What are you confused about? Like I said...I wouldn't expect people like you to understand.
FACT #1 - LeBron is shooting better on 15ft+ shots than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #2 - LeBron is being tightly guarded than either Curry or Klay when attempting those shots.
FACT #3 - OP is talking about LeBron taking those shots and making them, while being better defended than either Klay or Curry.

Those are indisputable FACTS. I'm sorry, if you can't wrap your mind around those simple FACTS.

You're saying that defenders are taking away more shots from Klay and Curry than LeBron? Then back it up with FACTS, instead of your rhetoric. It's that simple.

EDIT: FACT #4 - LeBron takes more shots than Klay and Curry do COMBINED, when the defender is on them and shoots better than BOTH of them.

[DMAVS41]

Did someone lately take all your understanding/unbias or something?

Wtf is this

A well thought out response that actually makes perfect sense.

Like I said...use your brains...

If we now have to argue about whether or not teams are defending these guys differently...I ****ing give up.

[DMAVS41]

FACT #1 - LeBron is shooting better on 15ft+ shots than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #2 - LeBron is being tightly guarded than either Curry or Klay when attempting those shots.
FACT #3 - OP is talking about LeBron taking those shots and making them, while being better defended than either Klay or Curry.

Those are indisputable FACTS. I'm sorry, if you can't wrap your mind around those simple FACTS.

You're saying that defenders are taking away more shots from Klay and Curry than LeBron? Then back it up with FACTS, instead of your rhetoric. It's that simple.

I don't see any data showing that Lebron is being more tightly guarded on exclusively mid range shots than those guys...for starters.

I simply saw a sorting showing a percentage of tightly guarded shots...I did not see it broken down into only mid range shots.

Again though...whether you like it or not...you can't use only shots taken here because it ignores all the times defenses work to take away open shots from Klay and Curry...while they want Lebron taking them over driving. You call that rhetoric...whatever....

If teams let Steph and Klay freely dribble with cushion into mid range jump shots like teams frequently do with Lebron...the Warriors would never lose.

[Im Still Ballin]

FACT #1 - LeBron is shooting better on 15ft+ shots than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #2 - LeBron is being tightly guarded than either Curry or Klay when attempting those shots.
FACT #3 - OP is talking about LeBron taking those shots and making them, while being better defended than either Klay or Curry.

Those are indisputable FACTS. I'm sorry, if you can't wrap your mind around those simple FACTS.

You're saying that defenders are taking away more shots from Klay and Curry than LeBron? Then back it up with FACTS, instead of your rhetoric. It's that simple.
aj putting ROUNDS into DMAVS

ROUNDS

[DMAVS41]

aj putting ROUNDS into DMAVS

ROUNDS

There is no way that link is for mid range shots...

It has Tristan Thompson taking 29.8% of his shots...LOL

The link is just for tightly guarded shots overall.

Of course Lebron is going to have a higher percentage than shooters...he's attacking the basket...so most of his shots that aren't wide open dunks...are going to be tightly contested.

Let me guess though...you won't be able to admit this and you'll want to argue that Tristan Thompson is taking 30% of his shots as mid and long range jumpers...:cheers:


Also, just from a simple logic point of view...Lebron walking into a jumper off the dribble with a decent, but late, contest is a demonstrably easier shot than a guy running off screens and being chased and having to pull up...or being tightly guarded before the actual shot.

Again, you actually have to think and know what it's like to play basketball. And anyone that has ever played knows how much easier it is to walk into a jumper than it is to have a guy right up in your face or challenging your dribble...and then have to make a pull up jumper. Like...this shouldn't have to be explained at all...but I guess it does.

So...I'd need to see video of these tightly guarded situations...because for all I know...they are counting weak/late contests and walk in jumpers for Lebron as tightly guarded...and that is just not remotely the same as what I describe above.

[NBAGOAT]

I don't see any data showing that Lebron is being more tightly guarded on exclusively mid range shots than those guys...for starters.

I simply saw a sorting showing a percentage of tightly guarded shots...I did not see it broken down into only mid range shots.

Again though...whether you like it or not...you can't use only shots taken here because it ignores all the times defenses work to take away open shots from Klay and Curry...while they want Lebron taking them over driving. You call that rhetoric...whatever....

If teams let Steph and Klay freely dribble with cushion into mid range jump shots like teams frequently do with Lebron...the Warriors would never lose.

it's more like teams completely bail out to stop them at the 3 point line so sometimes will give up an open midrange from say on a pump fake. This stat doesn't really mean much however since all 3 take very few midrange shots.

[aj1987]

I don't see any data showing that Lebron is being more tightly guarded on exclusively mid range shots than those guys...for starters.

I simply saw a sorting showing a percentage of tightly guarded shots...I did not see it broken down into only mid range shots.

Again though...whether you like it or not...you can't use only shots taken here because it ignores all the times defenses work to take away open shots from Klay and Curry...while they want Lebron taking them over driving. You call that rhetoric...whatever....

If teams let Steph and Klay freely dribble with cushion into mid range jump shots like teams frequently do with Lebron...the Warriors would never lose.
Some more FACTS for you, DMAVS:

#1 - When the defender is 6+ feet away, Curry takes 3.1 shots, Klay takes 2.8, and LeBron takes 2.6. Fewest open shots among the bunch.
#2 - When the defender is 4ft-6ft away, Curry takes 7.7 shots, Klay takes 6.2, and LeBron takes 6. Again, the fewest among them.
#3 - However, when the defender are playing them tight (2ft-4ft), Curry takes 6.6, the fewest and LeBron takes 6.8 shots. Clay takes the highest at 6.9.

[DMAVS41]

Some more FACTS for you, DMAVS:

#1 - When the defender is 6+ feet away, Curry takes 3.1 shots, Klay takes 2.8, and LeBron takes 2.6. Fewest open shots among the bunch.
#2 - When the defender is 4ft-6ft away, Curry takes 7.7 shots, Klay takes 6.2, and LeBron takes 6. Again, the fewest among them.
#3 - However, when the defender are playing them tight (2ft-4ft), Curry takes 6.6, the fewest and LeBron takes 6.8 shots. Clay takes the highest at 6.9.

Those are overall you moron...that has nothing to do with 15 plus ft jumpers.

Do you realize this?

You keep posting stats not relevant to the question at hand.

Of course Lebron is going to take a high amount of tightly guarded shots...he is attacking the rim...

Of course Lebron is going to take the least amount of open shots...he has no confidence, at least before game 5, to take his open jumpers. While Curry/Klay are running off screens and taking 3's in transition. In transition...Lebron is attacking the basket...you know...where a defender is likely to be.

Like...this should not be news to anyone watching the games.

Which is, sadly, is Lebron guarded differently than Klay/Curry when it comes to range shooting...LOL...ISH has hit a new low

[DMAVS41]

it's more like teams completely bail out to stop them at the 3 point line so sometimes will give up an open midrange from say on a pump fake. This stat doesn't really mean much however since all 3 take very few midrange shots.

It's more than that...because how you are defended before the shot actually matters...

But that makes my point for me...they are being guarded differently.

[aj1987]

Those are overall you moron...that has nothing to do with 15 plus ft jumpers.

Do you realize this?

You keep posting stats not relevant to the question at hand.

Which is, sadly, is Lebron guarded differently than Klay/Curry when it comes to range shooting...LOL...ISH has hit a new low
Considering the FACT that more of LeBron's shots are contested than either Klay's or Curry's, it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs. Also, if you actually watch a game or two, you'd realize that defenders are leaving LeBron wide open at the 3pt line (thanks to their illegal screens, GSW players are getting wide open shots from there as well). Once he's in the 3pt line and around 17ft away, there's a defender sticking on him. It's not really that hard to observe, IF you watch the games.

As VengfulAngel said, literally no one in this thread said LeBron's a better shooter than either Klay or Curry. How do you not grasp that simple fact? Stop melting down.

EDIT: Also, I didn't say that they were from a specific spot, retard. I just presented some FACTS for your dumbass.

[DMAVS41]

Considering the FACT that more of LeBron's shots are contested than either Klay's or Curry's, it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs. Also, if you actually watch a game or two, you'd realize that defenders are leaving LeBron wide open at the 3pt line (thanks to their illegal screens, GSW players are getting wide open shots from there as well). Once he's in the 3pt line and around 17ft away, there's a defender sticking on him. It's not really that hard to observe, IF you watch the games.

As VengfulAngel said, literally no one in this thread said LeBron's a better shooter than either Klay or Curry. How do you not grasp that simple fact? Stop melting down.

EDIT: Also, I didn't sat that they were from a specific spot, retarded shit. I just presented some FACTS for your dumbass.

Hey moron...all I said was that they are guarded differently. And then all you idiots went nuts.

And what you say above is just false...it does not go hand in hand at all.

And again, how one is guarded before a shot matters...

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6n0nTX0OpILsrpBuwqzWzQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjUwO2g9MzYy/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/video.woven.com/e86f874c0f2501b7d61243818b733006

It may change, but that is how Lebron has been guarded most of these playoffs on his mid range shots. If you think Klay/Steph would be defended like that consistently...sorry...you are ignorant.

[aj1987]

Hey moron...all I said was that they are guarded differently. And then all you idiots went nuts.
No you didn't, ****head. You went on of your routine rants, without backing up your rhetoric.


And what you say above is just false...it does not go hand in hand at all.
Prove it.


And again, how one is guarded before a shot matters...

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6n0nTX0OpILsrpBuwqzWzQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjUwO2g9MzYy/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/video.woven.com/e86f874c0f2501b7d61243818b733006
I could literally post dozens of pictures in which Klay and Curry are open. What exactly does that prove?


Go back to lala land and believing that Dirk is better than Kobe though. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

It's more than that...because how you are defended before the shot actually matters...

But that makes my point for me...they are being guarded differently.

well I will say this then. When Steph or Klay are inside the 3 pt line, there's a pretty good chance they're attacking the basket too. Letting them take a midrange shot is the best outcome for both defenses(obviously for different reasons however).

[DMAVS41]

I hope you at least realize how different those players are guarded...there is a reason why teams have been begging Lebron to shoot....and entire defenses try to prevent Klay and Steph from shooting.

Use your brain...

AJ

This is my first post. I said exactly what I just claimed I did.

Prove what? That Lebron is being guarded differently than Klay/Steph and that looking at tightly guarded shots overall is a flawed analysis when just assuming that stays true for a specific subset of shots far away from the basket...even though we know said player in question is given a large cushion and attacks the rim more than anyone? Like...okay.

Of course you could post some pictures of Klay/Steph being open. The difference is that you couldn't find many, if any, examples in which they are given space by design.

That is the difference. And until you realize that...both your outlook and any stats you bring up will be flawed for this conversation.

[DMAVS41]

well I will say this then. When Steph or Klay are inside the 3 pt line, there's a pretty good chance they're attacking the basket too. Letting them take a midrange shot is the best outcome for both defenses(obviously for different reasons however).

I'm not sure about that. In some cases...absolutely, but it's not like Klay just finishes around the rim amazingly well in guarded situations. And as for Curry...I'd bet his rate of finishing around the rim in the playoffs has fallen off dramatically from the regular season. Blame that on what you will...

Again though...literally my sole point was that you aren't going to find many possessions in which the defense chooses to just give Curry or Klay space 15 to 21 ft from the basket.

They aren't just letting them walk into a jumper or catch at 17 ft without tight coverage.

This is not and should not be a controversial statement...

[aj1987]

As I said, back up your rhetoric with FACTS. I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong. Until you actually post FACTS, I'm done with this thread.

[DMAVS41]

As I said, back up your rhetoric with FACTS. I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong. Until you actually post FACTS, I'm done with this thread.

Well I have posted facts.

I just did...like you accusing me of saying something I didn't when I entered the thread. It is a fact I didn't do what you claimed and I posted my first post.

What facts do you want?

Why can't we just have a logical discussion.

Take the picture I posted. That is considered smart and good defense on Lebron from that distance...which is the distance in question. Klay wants him to take that shot and contest as best he can.

If that was reversed and Klay had the ball there...it would be terrible defense to give him that much room. Same thing with Curry.

I'll ask again...do you deny this? If not, then you just agree with my only point. Which was that these players are guarded too differently for those percentages to mean much.

You make it sound like I have no basis to think this or post it...especially when in the OP it says the following;

"He's (Lebron) had a great post-season shooting"

Oh okay...I'm the one out of bounds for trying to bring in a little context to a number on which Lebron only takes like 11 percent of his shots.

Sorry, he hasn't had a great post season shooting. It's been dreadful overall.

He's shooting 30 percent 3 to 10 ft, 30 percent 10 to 15 ft, and 34 percent from 3. 64% from the ft line. And again...you can call it rhetoric, but it is simply a fact...teams have been instructed to give him range shots all playoffs...which makes the efficiency even worse.

Unless you are counting his finishes at the rim as part of his "shooting"...I don't think you can defend your claim at all. And we all know you aren't talking about his layups and dunks when you say "shooting"...so come on...educate us. Tell us why the basketball world is full of morons writing articles about Lebron's broken shot...when, in fact, he's been shooting great.

You guys think people have just completely made up his shooting struggles with articles left and right about his broke jumper? You think other coaches are just defending him this way for fun?

:confusedshrug:

[VengefulAngel]

Well I have posted facts.

I just did...like you accusing me of saying something I didn't when I entered the thread. It is a fact I didn't do what you claimed and I posted my first post.

What facts do you want?

Why can't we just have a logical discussion.

Take the picture I posted. That is considered smart and good defense on Lebron from that distance...which is the distance in question. Klay wants him to take that shot and contest as best he can.

If that was reversed and Klay had the ball there...it would be terrible defense to give him that much room. Same thing with Curry.

I'll ask again...do you deny this? If not, then you just agree with my only point. Which was that these players are guarded too differently for those percentages to mean much.

You make it sound like I have no basis to think this or post it...especially when in the OP it says the following;

"He's (Lebron) had a great post-season shooting"

Oh okay...I'm the one out of bounds for trying to bring in a little context to a number on which Lebron only takes like 11 percent of his shots.

Sorry, he hasn't had a great post season shooting. It's been dreadful overall.

He's shooting 30 percent 3 to 10 ft, 30 percent 10 to 15 ft, and 34 percent from 3. 64% from the ft line. And again...you can call it rhetoric, but it is simply a fact...teams have been instructed to give him range shots all playoffs...which makes the efficiency even worse.

You guys think people have just completely made up his shooting struggles with articles left and right about his broke jumper? You think other coaches are just defending him this way for fun?

:confusedshrug:

:facepalm

Your posts have become laughable. I'll point out some of the logical fallacies, you talk about having logical discussion and then attempt to prove a point my providing one clip without context, do you only believe that 1 clip outweighs the statistics we've presented, if you do you are deluded. I'm done with replying to your comments as you don't even hold yourself accountable for the absolute garbage that you post.

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm

Your posts have become laughable .


Sorry...your posts were/are...etc.

Tell me what is wrong with the above please. Did you or did you not claim Lebron has had a great post-season shooting?

Did you or did you not take issue with me claiming that the players are defended differently?

Notice how everyone ran away...nothing of substance being posted in relation to what I've posted. You not responding...just calling something laughable.

I'd like to know why Lebron has had a great playoffs shooting. Please explain.

[LBJFTW]

Sorry...your posts were/are...etc.

Tell me what is wrong with the above please. Did you or did you not claim Lebron has had a great post-season shooting?

Did you or did you not take issue with me claiming that the players are defended differently?

Notice how everyone ran away...nothing of substance being posted in relation to what I've posted. You not responding...just calling something laughable.

I'd like to know why Lebron has had a great playoffs shooting. Please explain.

This should be good. :lol

[VengefulAngel]

Sorry...your posts were/are...etc.

Tell me what is wrong with the above please. Did you or did you not claim Lebron has had a great post-season shooting?

Did you or did you not take issue with me claiming that the players are defended differently?

Notice how everyone ran away...nothing of substance being posted in relation to what I've posted. You not responding...just calling something laughable.

I'd like to know why Lebron has had a great playoffs shooting. Please explain.

See the edit. I might agree with some parts of your point but it doesn't mean that at times you post absolute rubbish.

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm

Your posts have become laughable. I'll point out some of the logical fallacies, you talk about having logical discussion and then attempt to prove a point my providing one clip without context, do you only believe that 1 clip outweighs the statistics we've presented, if you do you are deluded. I'm done with replying to your comments as you don't even hold yourself accountable for the absolute garbage that you post.

You haven't presented any stats specifically about the shots in question. All you did in your response to me was link the data of tightly guarded shots overall...not on mid range jumpers.

And you already agreed with me that the actual data needs to be put into context because of how defenses are trying to prevent Klay/Curry from shooting...while they are far more okay with Lebron shooting from that distance.

The picture is just an example.

Tell me what you disagree with;

1. That is how Klay should cover Lebron until he starts taking and making that shot. Klay's goal should be to prevent Lebron from driving to score or setting up a corner 3.

2. If it was Klay or Steph with the ball there...it would be terrible defense to give that cushion with your hands down.

Which one of those statements...1 or 2...do you disagree with?

[DMAVS41]

See the edit. I might agree with some parts of your point but it doesn't mean that at times you post absolute rubbish.

Notice how I'm here willing to take on anything you say...and you are running...

What rubbish? Please explain.

You think me posting a single picture as an example of what I'm talking about is the same thing as me thinking I've won the argument because I found a picture?

You are calling things rubbish in which I'm not even attempting to use them for.

And I'll point out again...in your first response to me...you posted a link that had to do with overall tightly guarded situations...not tightly guarded situations on jumpers. Shocking...Lebron has more tightly guarded shots...I never would have guessed it coming from a guy that takes damn near half his shots at the rim. Just...wow....so enlightening.

You haven't brought shit to the table other than their fg percentages on certain jumpers....and certainly haven't made any argument for why Lebron has had...and I quote...

"A great post-season shooting"

So I'll be around if you ever get the balls to either admit you were wrong or keep up with anything worthwhile to say

[ZMonkey11]

This thread is in fact correct.

LeBron shooting wide open 2pts >>> Steph/Klay shooting contested 2pts.

OP, way to uncover hidden stat gems about events no one could figure out.

[aj1987]

Well I have posted facts.

I just did...like you accusing me of saying something I didn't when I entered the thread. It is a fact I didn't do what you claimed and I posted my first post.

What facts do you want?

Why can't we just have a logical discussion.
You have yet to post a single fact, which actually pertains to the topic at hand. No one called LeBron a good or a great shooter. No one called him a better shooter than Curry or Klay. Yet, you decided to have your period and go on an irrelevant rant.


Take the picture I posted. That is considered smart and good defense on Lebron from that distance...which is the distance in question. Clay wants him to take that shot and contest as best he can.
Ok...? What does that have anything to do with the FACTS I presented or the topic at hand?


If that was reversed and Klay had the ball there...it would be terrible defense to give him that much room. Same thing with Curry.
Yet, 58% of Curry's shots are considered to be open or wide open. Only 45% of LeBron's shots are considered to be open/wide open.


I'll ask again...do you deny this? If not, then you just agree with my only point. Which was that these players are guarded too differently for those percentages to mean much.
Of course they are. I've said that like a billion times. Defenders give LeBron space to shoot 3's. They do no do that for Klay/Curry.


"He's (Lebron) had a great post-season shooting"
From the specific distances and for the specific shot, he did.


Sorry, he hasn't had a great post season shooting. It's been dreadful overall.
LeBron has made 1 fewer shot than Curry from mid-range the entire postseason. LeBron is shooting ~40%. To put that in perspective, Klay is shooting ~33% from mid-range for the postseason.


He's shooting 30 percent 3 to 10 ft, 30 percent 10 to 15 ft, and 34 percent from 3. 64% from the ft line. And again...you can call it rhetoric, but it is simply a fact...teams have been instructed to give him range shots all playoffs...which makes the efficiency even worse.
Where are you getting your numbers from? LeBron is shooting 40% from mid-range the ENTIRE PO's.


Unless you are counting his finishes at the rim as part of his "shooting"...I don't think you can defend your claim at all. And we all know you aren't talking about his layups and dunks when you say "shooting"...so come on...educate us. Tell us why the basketball world is full of morons writing articles about Lebron's broken shot...when, in fact, he's been shooting great.

You guys think people have just completely made up his shooting struggles with articles left and right about his broke jumper? You think other coaches are just defending him this way for fun?
Again, I never said he was having a great shooting postseason. :facepalm :facepalm

What I've been asking you to do the entire time is to show me evidence (proper FACTS) that LeBron is being guarded different from the specific locations and shot types that OP stated.

[TemporaMutantur]

I hope you at least realize how different those players are guarded...there is a reason why teams have been begging Lebron to shoot....and entire defenses try to prevent Klay and Steph from shooting.

Use your brain...

Word. These kids are ****ing dumb. The people stating that if he's shooting well, why aren't they playing him tighter...it's simple, he's a ****ing force in the paint, and you have to give something up, and the jump shot is the better choice, he's just stepping up, but let's be real, he's been struggling this year from midrange.

[DMAVS41]

AJ

I'll try this again.

All I said was that they are guarded differently. That's it. Go back and read the thread and tell me who went on a rant after my first post.

What you call evidence...I don't. You are posting about overall guarded situations...not guarded situations referring to the jumpers in question.

Lebron takes roughly half his shots at the rim...if you can't grasp why he's going to be technically "guarded tighter" on a higher percentage of his shots because of this...I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not going to go through game tape, snap photos, post them....if you are arguing that Lebron sees the same type of defense on range shots as Klay/Curry...we will just have to agree to disagree.

The OP clearly stated that Lebron is having a great shooting playoffs. You know that is not true...so your counter is that on an incredibly small sample of a specific shot...he's been great? Okay...whatever floats your boat.

Yes, Lebron, on roughly 11% of his mid range shots with a nice cushion...has shot well overall.

Again though...you dismiss immediately what I do post. That picture I posted...I could post more...show you the kind of defense I'm talking about.

That wasn't bad defense by Klay...it's how a coach would want you to guard Lebron at that spot. And you damn well know the entire team, players, and coaching staff would be yelling if that kind of defense was being played on Klay/Steph if they had the ball in the spot.

Are you denying this? I just want to know...what are you saying;

Are you saying?

1. Klay is not doing what his coaches would want in he picture

2. That how Klay is guarding Lebron is exactly how a coach would want Klay/Steph guarded in the same situation

Tell me your take. Because the reason i posted that picture was to try to simply get a visual of what the defense wants to do when Lebron gets it there...and I need to know if you think it's smart defense to treat Klay/Steph the same way.

Lastly, why don't you provide some real evidence. You've shown absolutely nothing relating to guarded mid range jumpers. None. The entire basketball world has been talking about Lebron's broke jumper, his lack of confidence, and just how big of a cushion he's routinely getting.

So post some god damn evidence or reasons to think Lebron is being guarded 17ft from the basket the same way Klay/Curry are...

I got my numbers from basketball reference. It depends on how you are defining mid range, but the dude has been broke as ****. Shooting a good percentage on 11% of his shots doesn't change that.

[GINOBILI!]

I wasn't aware that teams used dare to shoot strategies on Curry and Klay like they do LeBron. :hammerhead:

Also, Curry sat for a large chunk of the playoffs.

[StrongLurk]

Wow people will hate on Lebron for ANYTHING.

The dudes jump shot has been great and people STILL COMPLAIN about him!

[Blue&Orange]

FACT #1 - LeBron is shooting better on 15ft+ shots than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #2 - LeBron is being tightly guarded than either Curry or Klay when attempting those shots.
FACT #3 - OP is talking about LeBron taking those shots and making them, while being better defended than either Klay or Curry.

Those are indisputable FACTS. I'm sorry, if you can't wrap your mind around those simple FACTS.

You're saying that defenders are taking away more shots from Klay and Curry than LeBron? Then back it up with FACTS, instead of your rhetoric. It's that simple.

EDIT: FACT #4 - LeBron takes more shots than Klay and Curry do COMBINED, when the defender is on them and shoots better than BOTH of them.
And Kyrie is outplaying both Curry and Klay, that shows really who is really the stacked team. Yet 2/7. :applause:

[aj1987]

All I said was that they are guarded differently. That's it. Go back and read the thread and tell me who went on a rant after my first post.
I posted a single sentence with fewer than 10 words after you started acting like you were on your period.


What you call evidence...I don't. You are posting about overall guarded situations...not guarded situations referring to the jumpers in question.
Cool. Then provide evidence. I've shown than Curry is open-wideopen on the majority of his shots. I've shown that LeBron takes more contested shots than Curry. The onus of proof is on you now.


I'm not going to go through game tape, snap photos, post them....
Then just hold this L and move on.


The OP clearly stated that Lebron is having a great shooting playoffs. You know that is not true...so your counter is that on an incredibly small sample of a specific shot...he's been great? Okay...whatever floats your boat.
Are you here to talk about basketball or semantics?


Yes, Lebron, on roughly 11% of his mid range shots with a nice cushion...has shot well overall.
He's guarded on more of his shots than Curry or Klay.


Again though...you dismiss immediately what I do post. That picture I posted...I could post more...show you the kind of defense I'm talking about.
Do it for all of his shots from G5. That's just only game. Again, I could post tens of dozens of pictures which show that Curry takes a ton of open shots (thanks to the illegal screens).


That wasn't bad defense by Klay...it's how a coach would want you to guard Lebron at that spot. And you damn well know the entire team, players, and coaching staff would be yelling if that kind of defense was being played on Klay/Steph if they had the ball in the spot.
Cool. Good for them, but LeBron is guarded closely on more shots than Curry or Klay.

You keep saying this shit, but I've shown you PROOF that Curry is WIDE OPEN on 7+ FGA's a game. Not just open, but WIDE OPEN. Is everyone playing shitty defense on Curry?


1. Klay is not doing what his coaches would want in he picture
That's not an indicator of every defensive possession. You keep going on about the tiny sample size OP provided, but yet, you think a SINGLE picture is good enough? :oldlol:


Lastly, why don't you provide some real evidence. You've shown absolutely nothing relating to guarded mid range jumpers. None. The entire basketball world has been talking about Lebron's broke jumper, his lack of confidence, and just how big of a cushion he's routinely getting.
I did. Several times over. Can't be bothered to keep typing it out over and over again. Go back and read my posts.


So post some god damn evidence or reasons to think Lebron is being guarded 17ft from the basket the same way Klay/Curry are...
Read the OP.


I got my numbers from basketball reference. It depends on how you are defining mid range, but the dude has been broke as ****. Shooting a good percentage on 11% of his shots doesn't change that.
Good for you.


And Kyrie is outplaying both Curry and Klay, that shows really who is really the stacked team. Yet 2/7. :applause:
By your logic, Kyrie >>> Curry and Klay. Yet, LeBron has been better than Kyrie. So, Kyrie + LeBron >>>>>>>>> Curry and Klay? Damn, the Warriors are a stacked AF team.

I wouldn't expect a NY Kucks retard to understand it though.

[DMAVS41]

AJ

Lebron takes half his attempts at the rim. Do you realize this? Next...do you realize this means nothing for our conversation? Those tightly guarded attempts mean nothing for our conversation...nothing.

I made the claim that they are guarded differently...an intelligent response to that is not to post numbers about how tightly they are guarded overall on attempts when the type of attempts the players are taking...are drastically different.

You have provided no evidence at all...and can't back up your claims. I'll post another picture;

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/shaun.jpg?quality=90&w=956&h=531

Again, this is smart defense by Liv. Cushion and hands down...wanting him to shoot. If someone defended Klay/Curry in that spot that way...they'd be pulled from the game.

I'll just keep asking. Would you want your team to defend Klay/Curry the same way Liv is defending Lebron in that picture?


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2772457/Screen_Shot_2013-06-12_at_12.51.11_AM_medium.png

You act like this is new...it's not. Teams, smart ones at least, have been playing Lebron with a huge cushion on his mid range jumper for years.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2772523/Screen_Shot_2013-06-12_at_1.24.35_AM_medium.png

Again, this is by design. Those aren't broken down plays or Lebron beating coverage. Teams are purposely guarding him like that.

You keep posting about Curry taking more open shots. If you can't understand why that makes perfect sense...I just need to stop posting here. These types of concepts should not have to be explained. Curry is running off screens...he's taking transition 3's...he's not taking half his shots at the rim that are going to almost always be tightly guarded by definition. Curry handles the ball much better than Lebron and creates more space on his jumper off the dribble as well.

In addition, Lebron has blatantly refused to take open shots at times throughout he playoffs. LOL...of course you are going to take more guarded shots if you are turning down open looks in favor of driving into 3 guys because you are afraid to shoot.

But please...I'm all ears on how the above would be the proper strategy to defend Klay/Steph...and if you don't think it is. Then you agree with me.

You have been utterly ****ing destroyed in this thread, as usual, and I'd advise you to think a bit more before you post in the future.

[moongaze]

:biggums: :biggums:

Did you bump your head on something?

:oldlol:

[aj1987]

Lebron takes half his attempts at the rim. Do you realize this? Next...do you realize this means nothing for our conversation? Those tightly guarded attempts mean nothing for our conversation...nothing.
IIRC, he takes 55% of his shots at the rim. So what?


I made the claim that they are guarded differently...an intelligent response to that is not to post numbers about how tightly they are guarded overall on attempts when the type of attempts the players are taking...are drastically different.
Since you do not want to do it, or are completely incapable of doing it, I'll post this again.

Considering the FACT that more of LeBron's shots are contested than either Klay's or Curry's, it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs. Also, if you actually watch a game or two, you'd realize that defenders are leaving LeBron wide open at the 3pt line (thanks to their illegal screens, GSW players are getting wide open shots from there as well). Once he's in the 3pt line and around 17ft away, there's a defender sticking on him. It's not really that hard to observe, IF you watch the games.



You have provided no evidence at all...and can't back up your claims. I'll post another picture;
I did. Several times over. You just chose to ignore it.



Again, this is smart defense by Liv. Cushion and hands down...wanting him to shoot. If someone defended Klay/Curry in that spot that way...they'd be pulled from the game.
Once again, you post a picture of a skinny dude, who can only dream of guarding LeBron at the 3pt line, while I've been constantly saying that teams have been giving up LeBron that shot. Just proves that Livingston is not as smart of a defender as Iggy.


I'll just keep asking. Would you want your team to defend Klay/Curry the same way Liv is defending Lebron in that picture?
I repeat my first question I asked in this thread.

I'll say this one last time though. Klay and Curry get the vast majority of their points from jumpshots. The majority of their shots are open-wide open. That's a FACT.


You act like this is new...it's not. Teams, smart ones at least, have been playing Lebron with a huge cushion on his mid range jumper for years.
Are we going back to the '13 Finals?


Again, this is by design. Those aren't broken down plays or Lebron beating coverage. Teams are purposely guarding him like that.
Let's look at the '15 Finals. ~50% of LeBron's shots were outside the paint. LeBron was guarded (tight-very tight) on ~65% of his shots. Look at this picture:

https://s31.postimg.org/qjw14vx3v/Screen_Shot_2016_06_16_at_11_34_13_AM.png

Iggy drags him out and sticks on from from there.


You keep posting about Curry taking more open shots. If you can't understand why that makes perfect sense...I just need to stop posting here. These types of concepts should not have to be explained. Curry is running off screens...he's taking transition 3's...he's not taking half his shots at the rim that are going to almost always be tightly guarded by definition. Curry handles the ball much better than Lebron and creates more space on his jumper off the dribble as well.
Didn't you just say that Klay and Curry are guarded tighter and more of their shots are contested than LeBron's?


You have been utterly ****ing destroyed in this thread, as usual, and I'd advise you to think a bit more before you post in the future.
If you think posting rhetoric with ZERO facts is destruction, then I can't help you. Not really surprising from a mouth breather like you who thinks Dirk is better than Kobe though. Can't wait for you to ignore all the FACTS I post and continue with your mindless rhetoric.

[DMAVS41]

AJ

You just said this...again;

Considering the FACT that more of LeBron's shots are contested than either Klay's or Curry's, it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs.

It is not safe to assume that...I've explained this to you before. You are using data heavily influenced by shots at the rim and extending that to areas it does not make sense. And, my god, it matters what the defense is before the actual shot or contest. You aren't accounting for all the shots that Klay/Steph don't get because of the defense played on them...and these are incredibly small percentage of overall shots as well.

Did you watch game 5? Are you honestly arguing that they covered Lebron tight? I'm sorry, but I don't believe you for a second that you think this.

Klay and Steph getting more open looks is not what this is about. It's about how they are being guarded. Klay and Steph have far better skillsets to get open shots within an offense.

They aren't dribbling the air out of the ball going one on one a ton...they also take their open shots because they are great shooters. Lebron has been turning down open shots in favor of dribbling into 3 guys...another thing that skews the numbers.

Yes, we are going back to 13...Lebron's jumper was better back then...and the Spurs gave him a huge cushion all over the court.

Sorry...none of your points make any sense. You keep holding to this notion that because Lebron's at rim shots are contested...it follows that he's contested like that everywhere...which is just demonstrably false as I've showed now with plenty of evidence. You can't just discount all the pictures...I called this...why would I go through the games and take pictures when every time you are going to say something like "bad defense"...or "skinny guy can't cover him"...I won't even get into how much of a double standard this.

You also can't solely use Iggy...you can't say no other defense matters outside of one of the best defenders in the league to try and prove your point. But it fails on that standard as well...because Iggy has been giving him a cushion...he has not been pressing up real tight. He might have to now, but game 5...it was let Lebron shoot from all over...that was the strategy.

Not sure what that graphic does for you. All I see is Lebron bricking the **** out of the ball in guarded situations as he gets closer to the basket...which would support me. That as Lebron goes farther away from the basket...the defense gives him more of a cushion. Color me not surprised that at 16.5 ft there are more uncontested shots available to him.

And back to my original and only point really...there is no such thing as "let Klay/Stecph shoot from all over" strategy...that doesn't exist. Never has and never will.

But there is one for Lebron...because it makes sense given his inconsistent jumper and ability to finish at the rim.

Hence...once again...coming back to them clearly being defended differently.

And that is just obvious to any unbiased intelligent basketball fan. With Lebron...you want him taking long jumpers. With Steph/Klay...you don't. It would never be good defense to force Lebron to drive over taking a jumper...and it would never be good defense to sag off Klay/Curry and let them walk into jumpers with a cushion.

[aj1987]

Ugh... I'm done trying to explain how LeBron is guarded to you. You're either just stubborn and do not want to change your opinion or you're just plain dumb. I'll just repost what I've said earlier.

Considering the FACT that more of LeBron's shots are contested than either Klay's or Curry's, it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs. Also, if you actually watch a game or two, you'd realize that defenders are leaving LeBron wide open at the 3pt line (thanks to their illegal screens, GSW players are getting wide open shots from there as well). Once he's in the 3pt line and around 17ft away, there's a defender sticking on him. It's not really that hard to observe, IF you watch the games.

Let's look at the '15 Finals. ~50% of LeBron's shots were outside the paint. LeBron was guarded (tight-very tight) on ~65% of his shots. Look at this picture:

https://s31.postimg.org/qjw14vx3v/Screen_Shot_2016_06_16_at_11_34_13_AM.png

Iggy drags him out and sticks on from from there.


FACT #1 - LeBron is shooting better on 15ft+ shots than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #2 - LeBron is being tightly guarded than either Curry or Klay when attempting those shots.
FACT #3 - OP is talking about LeBron taking those shots and making them, while being better defended than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #4 - LeBron takes more shots than Klay and Curry do COMBINED, when the defender is on them and shoots better than BOTH of them.

#1 - When the defender is 6+ feet away, Curry takes 3.1 shots, Klay takes 2.8, and LeBron takes 2.6. Fewest open shots among the bunch.
#2 - When the defender is 4ft-6ft away, Curry takes 7.7 shots, Klay takes 6.2, and LeBron takes 6. Again, the fewest among them.
#3 - However, when the defender are playing them tight (2ft-4ft), Curry takes 6.6, the fewest and LeBron takes 6.8 shots. Klay takes the highest at 7.9.


One Final point, LeBron's defenders can always sag off him at the 3pt line, because they know that there's another man or two willing to leave their defensive assignments to cut off LeBron, when LeBron decides to drive.

[DMAVS41]

AJ...


1. Half of your "facts" have absolutely nothing to do with the debate.

2. We aren't solely talking about the finals

3. How Lebron is guarded? It's literally obvious to everyone but you. He's given a ton of space at the three point line, less space with still a cushion on his mid range jumper, and then he is challenged without over helping off 3 point shooters when he drives.

The defense wants him to take long jumpers...end of story. That is how he is guarded.

I've posted pictures...given sound arguments as to why this is the case...and I've showed you why your arguments and "facts" don't add up.

It has nothing to do with being stubborn.

I'm not relenting...why? Because for **** sake...I'm sick of debating facts on here with people.

Lebron James is defended differently than Klay and Steph are. Klay and Steph would never be allowed to walk into long jumpers with a cushion...it's not ****ing happening...ever...never...by design.

Wake up or GTFO...

[Sarcastic]

Not sure why this is surprising, at least with regards to Curry. He's playing far below his regular season numbers.

[aj1987]

AJ...


1. Half of your "facts" have absolutely nothing to do with the debate.

2. We aren't solely talking about the finals

3. How Lebron is guarded? It's literally obvious to everyone but you. He's given a ton of space at the three point line, less space with still a cushion on his mid range jumper, and then he is challenged without over helping off 3 point shooters when he drives.

The defense wants him to take long jumpers...end of story. That is how he is guarded.

I've posted pictures...given sound arguments as to why this is the case...and I've showed you why your arguments and "facts" don't add up.

It has nothing to do with being stubborn.

I'm not relenting...why? Because for **** sake...I'm sick of debating facts on here with people.

Lebron James is defended differently than Klay and Steph are. Klay and Steph would never be allowed to walk into long jumpers with a cushion...it's not ****ing happening...ever...never...by design.

Wake up or GTFO...
Considering the FACT that more of LeBron's shots are contested than either Klay's or Curry's, it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs. Also, if you actually watch a game or two, you'd realize that defenders are leaving LeBron wide open at the 3pt line (thanks to their illegal screens, GSW players are getting wide open shots from there as well). Once he's in the 3pt line and around 17ft away, there's a defender sticking on him. It's not really that hard to observe, IF you watch the games.

Let's look at the '15 Finals. ~50% of LeBron's shots were outside the paint. LeBron was guarded (tight-very tight) on ~65% of his shots. Look at this picture:

https://s31.postimg.org/qjw14vx3v/Screen_Shot_2016_06_16_at_11_34_13_AM.png

Iggy drags him out and sticks on from from there.


FACT #1 - LeBron is shooting better on 15ft+ shots than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #2 - LeBron is being tightly guarded than either Curry or Klay when attempting those shots.
FACT #3 - OP is talking about LeBron taking those shots and making them, while being better defended than either Klay or Curry.
FACT #4 - LeBron takes more shots than Klay and Curry do COMBINED, when the defender is on them and shoots better than BOTH of them.

#1 - When the defender is 6+ feet away, Curry takes 3.1 shots, Klay takes 2.8, and LeBron takes 2.6. Fewest open shots among the bunch.
#2 - When the defender is 4ft-6ft away, Curry takes 7.7 shots, Klay takes 6.2, and LeBron takes 6. Again, the fewest among them.
#3 - However, when the defender are playing them tight (2ft-4ft), Curry takes 6.6, the fewest and LeBron takes 6.8 shots. Klay takes the highest at 7.9.


One Final point, LeBron's defenders can always sag off him at the 3pt line, because they know that there's another man or two willing to leave their defensive assignments to cut off LeBron, when LeBron decides to drive.

[pauk]

I hope you at least realize how different those players are guarded...there is a reason why teams have been begging Lebron to shoot....and entire defenses try to prevent Klay and Steph from shooting.

Use your brain...

Reading that there you would think Lebron was some roleplayer or something, that Klay was a top 10 all-time legend / one of top 3 most deadliest overall/allround offensive players to guard in NBA history who has seen more double-triple treams, physical contact, flops, charges, shading & traps and best defenses ever (individually 1on1 aswell)... or something.... that Lebron is a Klay/Curry/Korver/Reddick/Reggie or something running around abusing screens for open/comfortable catch-n-shoot or something....

[riseagainst]

ummm... in that case teams are stupid for guarding LeBron that way when he's making 46% of those shots.



So Lebron being left wide open from mid range only shoots 46%. That's pathetic.

[Dray n Klay]

So Lebron being left wide open from mid range only shoots 46%. That's pathetic.


#rentfree

[chazzy]

Dmavs destroying you obnoxious people who are seriously stupid enough to believe teams aren't conceding the jumper to Lebron.. LMAO

Just because you keep spamming "FACTS" doesn't mean you're correct, especially when you follow that up with statements like


it's safe to assume that his mid-range shots are more contested than either of theirs.

I swear it's like we're trying to analyze an untelevised game

[DMAVS41]

Reading that there you would think Lebron was some roleplayer or something, that Klay was a top 10 all-time legend / one of top 3 most deadliest overall/allround offensive players to guard in NBA history who has seen more double-triple treams, physical contact, flops, charges, shading & traps and best defenses ever (individually 1on1 aswell)... or something.... that Lebron is a Klay/Curry/Korver/Reddick/Reggie or something running around abusing screens for open/comfortable catch-n-shoot or something....

What?

We are talking about range shooting...a known weakness for Lebron. We are solely talking about shooting.

And, I'm sorry, it's just a simple fact that teams concede jumpers to Lebron most of the time for 3 big reasons;

1. Lebron has an inconsistent jumper that sometimes goes severely broke and he loses confidence and, at least recently, has been afraid to shoot

2. He's probably the 2nd best rim attacker in NBA history. Even with a weak jumper he finds a way to take roughly half his shots at the rim and is an amazing finisher.

3. He's also an excellent passer....so forcing him into a shooter...especially long 2's...makes a lot more sense than having to worry about stopping him at the rim (good luck) or finding the open man for an easy basket or open 3

This has literally nothing to do with his all time ranking or anything like that.

This is about the simple fact that teams defend Lebron differently than great shooters. And honestly I hate myself that I keep responding to morons that think that is a controversial statement.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What in the f*ck happened to Bron's jumper after 2013 and 2014? :confusedshrug: Did he just stop practicing it?

Somebody earlier posted his shooting stats from 10-15 / 15-23 feet, and they were damn impressive.

[DMAVS41]

AJ

Unless you actually address my responses and come up with valid arguments. I won't respond.

You just posted the same response with nothing new even though I addressed, several times now, why you it isn't "safe to assume"...and how none of that even accounts for what we are talking about

Your sample of "facts" is ruined by the actual fact that Lebron takes half his shots at the rim...and those are included in your sample.

The Iggy stuff from 15 that you posted does not support your conclusion. All it shows is that Lebron isn't guarded as tightly around 16.5 ft. Which is my ****ing point...the closer he gets to the basket...the tighter he's guarded.

So...you just have no clue as to what you are even posting anymore. You post something that shows Lebron taking a bunch of uncontested shots in the range we are talking about...and you think it favors your side? Like...seriously? You are that dumb?

[DMAVS41]

What in the f*ck happened to Bron's jumper after 2013 and 2014? :confusedshrug: Did he just stop practicing it?

Somebody earlier posted his shooting stats from 10-15 / 15-23 feet, and they were damn impressive.

It's definitely fallen off in a vacuum, but go back and watch games 1-6 of the 13 finals.

It was laughable how much space the Spurs were giving him and also laughable how little confidence he had.

It wasn't until the end of game 6...and obviously game 7...when he started hitting.

This has been a problem a long long long time.

Some of the numbers are misleading as well...as he was basically only taking jumpers in which was really comfortable taking on Miami when they had that luxury.

[iamgine]

Teams are giving this inefficient long 2s to Lebron and he's been making em in the playoff. Kudos to him.

Note that he does not usually shoot long 2s this good and when he gets to the rim his %age is much higher so teams are smart to give him this shot.

[sixer6ad]

What are you confused about? Like I said...I wouldn't expect people like you to understand.

When you really don't have a legitimate argument and you just type something that acts like you do, try typing something like:

"Those stats surprise me."

"Lebron has shot the ball much better than anyone would expect."

"It's game 6 and he's that much higher? Maybe they should get a hand in his face?"

Or you can just continue to type meaningless words and pretend you know the game.

[DMAVS41]

Dmavs destroying you obnoxious people who are seriously stupid enough to believe teams aren't conceding the jumper to Lebron.. LMAO

Just because you keep spamming "FACTS" doesn't mean you're correct, especially when you follow that up with statements like



I swear it's like we're trying to analyze an untelevised game


It's unreal...