Shaq is the most underrated player in NBA history

[StrongLurk]

Dude was a monster for 18 years, 4 championships, three FVMP, top 3 peak ever.

Also has the highest PER for Finals games (29.2), even higher than MJ himself.

Shaq is without a doubt a top 5 player to play the game. I have him higher than Bird, Magic, Duncan and Kobe for sure.

[Klay 3D]

Brian Shaw f*ckin sucks. As a coach and as a 3x champion.

[HurricaneKid]

I hope that's a typo...

[Kblaze8855]

I changed it.

[NBAGOAT]

I agree. Would say top 2 peak actually and a decent case over MJ.

[Bernkastel]

"Underrated."

[StrongLurk]

I was editing it to Shaq when it looks like an admin already did, NOICE!

Seriously though, he has the same longevity as Kobe/Duncan, but produced more and was more dominant in the playoffs and ESPECIALLY THE FINALS.

He actually has the highest rated PER for finals players (higher than MJ). MDE during his 3-peat.

Duncan/Kobe have had dominant Finals series but overall their numbers are worse in the finals than they are in the regular season and playoffs leading up to the finals.

Also, I think Shaq should be higher than Magic and Bird too.

[FireDavidKahn]

WTF?

Most call Shaq the MDE during his peak:facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

WTF?

Most call Shaq the MDE during his peak:facepalm

yea, peak, thanks for proving the point, hes terribly underrated career wise. Top 5 all time.

[Boogaboog]

It's impossible to be the "most underrated" when you're a household name around much of the world and acknowledged pretty much unanimously to be a top 5 center all-time.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's impossible to be the "most underrated" when you're a household name around much of the world and acknowledged pretty much unanimously to be a top 5 center all-time.

this cat doesnt know the meaning of overrated lol

[Jasper]

fat shaq if stayed in shape would of had 6 + chips if it wasn't for LA life and Kobe fvck face

[StrongLurk]

I say he is underrated because most people think Magic>Shaq or Kobe>Shaq, hell even Duncan>Shaq.

I completed disagree with those.

[FireDavidKahn]

yea, peak, thanks for proving the point, hes terribly underrated career wise. Top 5 all time.
:roll: So just because Shaq wasn't the MDE throughout his career, he is underrated?

Any real basketball fan knows and rates Shaq just fine.

[allball]

Isiah Thomas

[ScalsFan21]

I say he is underrated because most people think Magic>Shaq or Kobe>Shaq, hell even Duncan>Shaq.

I completed disagree with those.

I don't think most people have Kobe or Duncan over Shaq. Shaq leaves both of them in the dust IMO, though with Duncan it's far closer. Kobe vs. Shaq is literally not even a discussion worth having.

Shaq vs. Magic I give the edge to Shaq there too to be honest... he's right there with Kareem for best big to ever play the game.

[PAOK]

MDE statline

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/71/1f/c9/711fc9c927e1d414144197d190f0c7f0.jpg

shaq is clearly in tier 2 all time along with kaj/magic/bird (below MJ)

[StrongLurk]

MDE statline

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/71/1f/c9/711fc9c927e1d414144197d190f0c7f0.jpg

shaq is clearly in tier 2 all time along with kaj/magic/bird (below MJ)


Hahahahathat ish is absurd! Shaq is a monster!

[ClipperRevival]

Dude was a monster for 18 years, 4 championships, three FVMP, top 3 peak ever.

Also has the highest PER for Finals games (29.2), even higher than MJ himself.

Shaq is without a doubt a top 5 player to play the game. I have him higher than Bird, Magic, Duncan and Kobe for sure.

Where did you get PER for the finals?

[tmacattack33]

I mostly see Shaq around the 6 or 7 spot.

Which is fine...he got lazy around 2003 and went downhill fast after 2006.

9 years or whatever Shaq has of top 3 level play is still great though. But I mean Lebron is about to have 10 or 11 years of top 3 level play after this year.

[StrongLurk]

Where did you get PER for the finals?

You can calculate it yourself if you know the formula.

Lebron for instance is right around 27 PER for his career Finals, which is crazy considering his first two finals combined is like 15 PER.

[Wade's Rings]

I mostly see Shaq around the 6 or 7 spot.

Which is fine...he got lazy around 2003 and went downhill fast after 2006.

9 years or whatever Shaq has of top 3 level play is still great though. But I mean Lebron is about to have 10 or 11 years of top 3 level play after this year.

For the 10 years are you talking about 1995-2005?

[ClipperRevival]

You can calculate it yourself if you know the formula.

Lebron for instance is right around 27 PER for his career Finals, which is crazy considering his first two finals combined is like 15 PER.

What's MJ's finals PER?

[StrongLurk]

What's MJ's finals PER?

Shaq's is 29.2 and MJ's is 29.1

Both made 6 finals, MJ obviously having better success with 6 rings/FMVPS, but Shaq has 4 rings/3FMVPs...which is insane as well.

[ClipperRevival]

Shaq's is 29.2 and MJ's is 29.1

Both made 6 finals, MJ obviously having better success with 6 rings/FMVPS, but Shaq has 4 rings/3FMVPs...which is insane as well.

What's the formula or can you provide a link? I'd like to be able to do this too.

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll: So just because Shaq wasn't the MDE throughout his career, he is underrated?

Any real basketball fan knows and rates Shaq just fine.

That would make him the GOAT, also, that would mean I'd criticize Shaq, not his underrated perception, idiot.

[Gougou]

Wilt Chamberlian and Olajuwon

[plowking]

They really should have beat the Pistons in 2004.

I completely agree on him being underrated for his career. Dude has longevity, peak play, championships, etc. The lot really.

Don't understand how a dude with 4 championships and his level of peak play gets rated lower by some people than a guy like Hakeem. :oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

He should have won in 2004 as well with FMVP, dude was by far the best player in the court.


Too bad Kobe had the worst Finals performance in NBA History



Think about it, Shaq was a Kobe choke away from 5 rings and 4 FMVPs

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MDE statline

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/71/1f/c9/711fc9c927e1d414144197d190f0c7f0.jpg

:oldlol: :bowdown:

Definitely a Top 5 peak ALL TIME and yes, wildly underrated. His run from 95-04 was about as good as anybodies not named Jordan or Kareem (you could probably argue that run was right there with KAJ actually).

[CuterThanRubio]

Scottie Pippen is the most underrated

Who underrates Shaq?

[Prime_Shaq]

:oldlol: :bowdown:

Definitely a Top 5 peak ALL TIME and yes, wildly underrated. His run from 95-04 was about as good as anybodies not named Jordan or Kareem (you could probably argue that run was right there with KAJ actually).
In terms of PEAK, I would argue he's Top 2. Overall in his career you could argue anywhere between Top 4-8.

[NBAGOAT]

In terms of PEAK, I would argue he's Top 2. Overall in his career you could argue anywhere between Top 4-8.

this is going be blasphemous on this forum but he has a decent case over Jordan for GOAT peak. Just being an elite rim protector like he was in 00 means he's more valuable on defense by quite a bit.

[Prime_Shaq]

this is going be blasphemous on this forum but he has a decent case over Jordan for GOAT peak. Just being an elite rim protector like he was in 00 means he's more valuable on defense by quite a bit.
Yeah peak wise its definitely comparable, get ready to be ripped apart though :lol

[UK2K]

Dude was a monster for 18 years, 4 championships, three FVMP, top 3 peak ever.

Also has the highest PER for Finals games (29.2), even higher than MJ himself.

Shaq is without a doubt a top 5 player to play the game. I have him higher than Bird, Magic, Duncan and Kobe for sure.
Absolutely agree.

So dominant, the league had to change rules because of him.

He'd average 85 in this NBA if he could shoot free throws. Imagine him getting the benefit of the soft whistle today. He'd be unstoppable.

[Asukal]

Yeah Shaq was all that but he didn't have the dedication to be the very best. He was too reliant on his godly athleticism and didn't work as hard as he should have. :confusedshrug:

[West-Side]

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem

The only debate I have is Moses or Hakeem.
Shaq had, IMO, had the best peak in history for the first 3 quarters. His weakness at the line hurts him from moving up more. Not being able to close games and being a liability in a close game due to Shaq a Hack hurts him from being with Jordan and KAJ.

All 4 titles Shaq won was because Kobe/Wade were great closers. They were the go to guys late in games unless Shaq had an open dunk. It's not a coincidence he couldn't win a title without those two, despite having some good players around him. His only weakness to me was his FTs and that weakness created a trend. For instance, GS fouling Tristan to quickly gain possession back with a great chance of him missing at least 1 shot. That is significant because it stops the clock.

Can't put him higher when he was subbed out in key moments in the 4th because of his free throws.

But Shaq was so talented and athletic. He had great vision for a big, good handles for his size, great rebounder, one of the 3 most efficient scorers in history and a great playoff resume.

[NBAGOAT]

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem

The only debate I have is Moses or Hakeem.
Shaq had, IMO, had the best peak in history for the first 3 quarters. His weakness at the line hurts him from moving up more. Not being able to close games and being a liability in a close game due to Shaq a Hack hurts him from being with Jordan and KAJ.

All 4 titles Shaq won was because Kobe/Wade were great closers. They were the go to guys late in games unless Shaq had an open dunk. It's not a coincidence he couldn't win a title without those two, despite having some good players around him. His only weakness to me was his FTs and that weakness created a trend. For instance, GS fouling Tristan to quickly gain possession back with a great chance of him missing at least 1 shot. That is significant because it stops the clock.

Can't put him higher when he was subbed out in key moments in the 4th because of his free throws.

But Shaq was so talented and athletic. He had great vision for a big, good handles for his size, great rebounder, one of the 3 most efficient scorers in history and a great playoff resume.

this is kind of myth for 2000. Ft shooting was a problem but teams didn't hack a shaq that often back then. The Lakers still played Shaq most of the 4th, Going steal some info from some post I saw on realGM by Colts18.

Top 5 in 4th Quarter points per 36 minutes in 2000:
1. Shaq 29.4 PPG, .584 TS%
2. Malone 27.9 PPG, .604 TS%
3. Carter 26.3 PPG, .573 TS%
4. Iverson 25.9 PPG, .504 TS%
5. Hill 25.4 PPG, 56.6 TS%
Kobe was 9th at 23 point per 36.

The Lakers had a 110 O rating when Shaq was on the court in the 4th quarter. Here are those same ratings, except for the playoffs (min. 2 playoff series):
1. Shaq 32.3 PPG, .637 TS%
2. Wells 29.6 PPG, .617 TS%
3. Mourning 23.7 PPG, .524 TS%
4. Miller 23.0 PPG, .654 TS% (his team had a 124.3 O rating in the 4th with him on the court)
5. Malone 22.6 PPG, .490 TS%.

Per 36 is fine here since Shaq played most of the 4th.

[Overdrive]

this is kind of myth for 2000. Ft shooting was a problem but teams didn't hack a shaq that often back then. The Lakers still played Shaq most of the 4th, Going steal some info from some post I saw on realGM by Colts18.

Top 5 in 4th Quarter points per 36 minutes in 2000:
1. Shaq 29.4 PPG, .584 TS%
2. Malone 27.9 PPG, .604 TS%
3. Carter 26.3 PPG, .573 TS%
4. Iverson 25.9 PPG, .504 TS%
5. Hill 25.4 PPG, 56.6 TS%
Kobe was 9th at 23 point per 36.

The Lakers had a 110 O rating when Shaq was on the court in the 4th quarter. Here are those same ratings, except for the playoffs (min. 2 playoff series):
1. Shaq 32.3 PPG, .637 TS%
2. Wells 29.6 PPG, .617 TS%
3. Mourning 23.7 PPG, .524 TS%
4. Miller 23.0 PPG, .654 TS% (his team had a 124.3 O rating in the 4th with him on the court)
5. Malone 22.6 PPG, .490 TS%.

Per 36 is fine here since Shaq played most of the 4th.

I don't get how this Shaq sat in the 4th myth gets perpetuated.Good post.

[Odinn]

The thing about Shaq is he got the respect and admiration in his playing days that he deserved. But the game dynamics has changed (especially rules and small lineups) and people forgot a goat level big can be a huge force on the field. Shaq, Timmy and KG were the last true all-time great bigs we saw and their best days are nearly 10 years behind us.
Also every other all-time greats kept achieveing after Shaq's good days. Kobe went to 3 NBA Finals while winning 2 of them, Duncan won 1 out of 2. LeBron's entire achievements came after Shaq's good days. When people compare Shaq to these 3, they tend to favour the newer achievements.

I recall threads saying Duncan > Shaq after Timmy's 5th ring and I still don't agree with that even though I'm a Duncan fan. Peak and prime, those are the most important thing when it comes to rankings/comparisons.

[Old Man River]

they let him offensive foul on every play he got the ball

[Big164]

Was 2002 Shaq the most dominant scorer in Finals History?

36.3 PPG on .636 TS%


The only thing close was Jordan's 41 ppg on .558 TS%

[feyki]

Was 2002 Shaq the most dominant scorer in Finals History?

36.3 PPG on .636 TS%


The only thing close was Jordan's 41 ppg on .558 TS%

21 PPG on %48.6 TS against Spurs same year .

Shaq probably most overrated player ever , with his playing against non-competitive match ups in finals . His 2001 postseason probably most impressive playoffs in his entire career . But 00 or 02 finals are just hype of Shaq .

[KKittles30]

When you get SWEPT in the NBA Finals by Hakeem Olajuwon who bullied Shaq into becoming the beast he was as he said, "Never Again!" would it happen.. That's why you he will always not be as good as the ones above him...He's top 10 for sure... but, Top 5 I just can't put him that high even as dominant as he was.

[Big164]

21 PPG on %48.6 TS against Spurs same year .

Shaq probably most overrated player ever , with his playing against non-competitive match ups in finals . His 2001 postseason probably most impressive playoffs in his entire career . But 00 or 02 finals are just hype of Shaq .
You bring up a series where Shaq was double teamed by two hall of fame centers?

Call the 02 finals what you will, but no other player has put up numbers like that on such a high TS%. Not Kareem, not MJ, not Bron, not Wilt... no one.

[MintBerryCrunch]

He is so underrated on ISH. LeBron underrated more, but LeBron is probably 2nd.

[SexSymbol]

it's really hard to put his career into perspective
He was a collossal choker sometimes in PO and then goes on to have GOAT level finals series.
Then he quits on teams and calls out teammates in certain seasons, then goes back to being a good leader and a very competitive guy in other ones.
Shaq's character is the definition of mood swing.
Guy is top 10, but any comparison with Jordan, Russell or KAJ is just silly

[Spurs5Rings2014]

21 PPG on %48.6 TS against Spurs same year .

Shaq probably most overrated player ever , with his playing against non-competitive match ups in finals . His 2001 postseason probably most impressive playoffs in his entire career . But 00 or 02 finals are just hype of Shaq .

Dudes don't look at context. Duncan absolutely bodied Shaq H2H for their career across the entire board, but since Shaq feasted on some scrubs in the Least he's somehow better and top 5 all time.

:oldlol:

That and playing with the 2nd and 3rd best SG's of all time help as well (no ATG except Duncan has won multiple chips without an All-NBA teammate).

[SexSymbol]

Dudes don't look at context. Duncan absolutely bodied Shaq H2H for their career across the entire board, but since Shaq feasted on some scrubs in the Least he's somehow better and top 5 all time.

:oldlol:

That and playing with the 2nd and 3rd best SG's of all time help as well (no ATG except Duncan has won multiple chips without an All-NBA teammate).
Duncan is definitely ahead of Shaq all time and i'm one of Shaq's greatest supporters on this site

[feyki]

You bring up a series where Shaq was double teamed by two hall of fame centers?

Call the 02 finals what you will, but no other player has put up numbers like that on such a high TS%. Not Kareem, not MJ, not Bron, not Wilt... no one.

Admiral was playing with 25 minutes a game and played only 3 games of 5 in that series .

Actually , you did pick a series , which was Shaq against Todd McCollouch .

All centers in history , played against tough competitions ; beside of Shaq . Actually , Shaq played too . But that hype put him in that situation . Cause like i said 00 and 02 finals were just hype of Shaq . That criticism not about Shaq . It's about media and fans . Being act like Jordan and Shaq were only players to peaked higher than anyone in history is totally ignore of other legends and being ignorant about basketball history .

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Admiral was playing with 25 minutes a game and played only 3 games of 5 in that series .
:lol

[NBAGOAT]

Dudes don't look at context. Duncan absolutely bodied Shaq H2H for their career across the entire board, but since Shaq feasted on some scrubs in the Least he's somehow better and top 5 all time.

:oldlol:

That and playing with the 2nd and 3rd best SG's of all time help as well (no ATG except Duncan has won multiple chips without an All-NBA teammate).

where the hell does this myth come from. Here's the head 2 head stats http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=onealsh01. That's even accounting for more of Shaq's games coming from past his prime. Ofc when Duncan feasts on the Nets, suddenly it's an all time great performance. Also you're forgetting Hakeem Olajuwon in 94.

[Odinn]

where the hell does this myth come from. Here's the head 2 head stats http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=onealsh01. That's even accounting for more of Shaq's games coming from past his prime. Ofc when Duncan feasts on the Nets, suddenly it's an all time great performance. Also you're forgetting Hakeem Olajuwon in 94.
Not that I'm sayin' Duncan pwned Shaq, but if we stick to 1999-2001-2002-2003-2004 series, here's their h2h numbers in the playoffs;

Duncan; 25.8 ppg / 12.9 rpg / 4.1 apg / 2.4 bpg / 0.9 spg on .483 fg / .727 ft (.552 ts / 29.44 eff per game)
O'Neal; 23.9 ppg / 13.5 rpg / 2.5 apg / 2.8 bpg / 0.6 spg on .536 fg / .532 ft (.550 ts / 27.52 eff per game)

Keep in mind, Shaq's ppg from 1999 to 2004* in the playoffs was 27.5 on .553 fg.
*You can say Shaq was far from his best in 2004, but I'd like to remind Shaq was the better one in 2004 series, at least onwards the series got moved to LA.


I don't think there's something wrong with saying Duncan has a certain edge against Shaq in h2h playoffs performances.

[necya]

shot the fock op and go eat your cornflakes

[Big164]

Duncan is definitely ahead of Shaq all time and i'm one of Shaq's greatest supporters on this site

Ahead in what exactly? cuz Duncan's certainly NOT touching him in any major offensive category.

Shaq
Finals 28.8 ppg .589 TS%
Playoffs 24.3 ppg .565 TS%
Regular Season 23.7 ppg .586 TS%

Duncan
Finals 20.8 ppg .538 TS%
Playoffs 20.6 ppg .548 TS%
Regular Season 19.0 ppg .551 TS%

Duncan got one extra ring playing in garbage time, but was never the unstoppable Beast Shaq was.

[90sgoat]

Dude was a monster for 18 years, 4 championships, three FVMP, top 3 peak ever.

Also has the highest PER for Finals games (29.2), even higher than MJ himself.

Shaq is without a doubt a top 5 player to play the game. I have him higher than Bird, Magic, Duncan and Kobe for sure.

Nope, Bird and Magic were better and most importantly beat far better competition.

Shaq got swept in the playoffs by Malone and Stockton despite having a good team, got swept by MJ.

I have him 5th all time after MJ, Kareem, Bird, Magic.

[Cold soul]

Shaq has top three peak play easily he ranks anywhere from 5-9. I'm huge Shaq fan he could've been so much more he should of been in GOAT discussion.

[Prime_Shaq]

Nope, Bird and Magic were better and most importantly beat far better competition.

Shaq got swept in the playoffs by Malone and Stockton despite having a good team, got swept by MJ.

I have him 5th all time after MJ, Kareem, Bird, Magic.
Interesting. You have him above Russell? Always tough for me to rank players I've never watched (ie. Russell and Chamberlain)