MJ ALWAYS Had better team in championships

[Kingwillball]

Besides leading every statistical category in series(never been done before by MJ or anybody else) Lebron won 2 championships as Underdog while MJ was ALWAYS on better team. Lebron also beat 2 teams Spurs and Warriors who were as good or better than any MJ beat. Not knocking MJ but there needs to be a little slack cut for Lebron.. oh and that 2-7 you haters can pound that up your arse..:roll:

[kamil]

Besides leading every statistical category in series(never been done before by MJ or anybody else) Lebron won 2 championships as Underdog while MJ was ALWAYS on better team. Lebron also beat 2 teams Spurs and Warriors who were as good or better than any MJ beat. Not knocking MJ but there needs to be a little slack cut for Lebron.. oh and that 2-7 you haters can pound that up your arse..:roll:

Bulls were underdogs in 1991 and 1998.

Quit lying.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Oh come on, Lebron is not even top 5 yet, comparing him to MJ is insane.
:no:

[kamil]

Oh come on, Lebron is not even top 5 yet, comparing him to MJ is insane.
:no:

LeBron* logic dude, they'll do anything to prop up LeBron*. It's ridiculous... the GOAT discussion ended in 2011 and they still bring it up.

[Prime_Shaq]

He won more too.

[Cold soul]

After 2011 that ship has already sailed the best case for Lebron is top three.

[Da_Realist]

Bulls were underdogs in 1991 and 1998.

Quit lying.

And many picked the Suns in 93. But obviously MJ had better teams, as evidenced by them winning 6 titles. Once the Bulls started winning, no one felt comfortable picking against MJ. Even when he came out of retirement and only played 17 games leading into the playoffs, many thought he could pull it off through sheer will.

[andgar923]

Bulls were underdogs in 1991 and 1998.

Quit lying.

They were even underdogs vs teams like the Magic, Hawks (yes the Hawks), Knicks, Pacers.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bulls were underdogs in 1991 and 1998.

Quit lying.

1991? Are you actually serious? Lakers were significant underdogs already the previous series against the Blazers... it was a last run type thing. They were beaten up, too... 1998? Possibly, but in large part due to Pippen missing half of the regular season.

[kamil]

1991? Are you actually serious? Lakers were significant underdogs already the previous series against the Blazers... it was a last run type thing. They were beaten up, too... 1998? Possibly, but in large part due to Pippen missing half of the regular season.

Your memory is shit, lol.

[Da_Realist]

They were even underdogs vs teams like the Magic, Hawks (yes the Hawks), Knicks, Pacers.

Hawks? They were never favored against the Bulls. 98 Pacers, either.

[Da_Realist]

1991? Are you actually serious? Lakers were significant underdogs already the previous series against the Blazers... it was a last run type thing. They were beaten up, too... 1998? Possibly, but in large part due to Pippen missing half of the regular season.

Lakers were favored due to their experience and size. I knew it was BS because I thought the Bulls grew up against Detroit but most of the status quo in the media favored Magic's 5 rings. He was the "winner". No one thought Chicago would win in their first time in the Finals.

Two times I thought the media was wrong: 1988 Pistons and 1991 Bulls. They were written off for the same reason: being young upstarts going against the Lakers. But I saw Detroit grow and handle the Celtics. I knew the Lakers had a problem on their hands. Even Worthy said he underestimated the Pistons in their 30 for 30 special.

Media made the same mistake with Chicago in 91.

[Wade's Rings]

Your memory is shit, lol.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't even old enough to watch ball back then.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Oh come on, Lebron is not even top 5 yet, comparing him to MJ is insane.
:no:

He barely just entered the top 10 over the likes of Wilt and Hakeem and these losers are comparing him to Jordan, who is top 2 all time. Before you know it, they'll be comparing him to the GOAT himself.

:oldlol:

[greymatter]

Only a retard would believe his team was an underdog against the 91 Lakers. That Lakers team needed a 3rd wheel --Vlade Divac-- to play his all time best series just to advance beyond an underperforming Trailblazers team in the WCF.

MJs teams were sizable favorites against against all but the 93 Suns and 98
Jazz. If you were to replay those 6 series over 1000 times, you'd get 5/6 around 70%, 4/6 about 9%, 6/6 about 20%, and 3/6 or fewer about 1%.

All in all, his Bulls teams slightly overachieved.

Prior to this Finals, Lebron's teams were favored in 2 of 6. He lost once as a moderate/strong favorite (Mavs) and won once as slight/moderate underdog (Thunder). The averages say that 2/6 would be the most common result if you replayed those 6 series over and over. When you factor in this year's major upset victory, Lebron goes from batting @ average to being a clear overachiever.

[Indian guy]

They were even underdogs vs teams like the Magic, Hawks (yes the Hawks), Knicks, Pacers.

This is ridiculous. MJ with a full season under his belt was never an underdog against any of those teams with the exception of '93 Knicks.

[Da_Realist]

Cavs scored a big upset but they're not the only ones that would have beaten GSW. OKC should have done it in 6 games just two weeks ago. And nobody aside from DMavs thinks OKC was an all time great team.

[kamil]

Cavs scored a big upset but they're not the only ones that would have beaten GSW. OKC should have done it in 6 games just two weeks ago. And nobody aside from DMavs thinks OKC was an all time great team.

OKC choked during that series too, didnt they have like a 10+ point lead in the last 2 or 3 games going into the 4th quarter?

[Da_Realist]

OKC choked during that series too, didnt they have like a 10+ point lead in the last 2 or 3 games going into the 4th quarter?

They led with just 4 mins to go in Game 6. Then they self-destructed. Plenty of teams would have finished off GSW right there. Wonder if Klay still thinks they are better than Showtime :lol

[andgar923]

This is ridiculous. MJ with a full season under his belt was never an underdog against any of those teams with the exception of '93 Knicks.

Go back and watch

[impulze]

Can we probably try to not bring up MJ once for a whole single page on ISH? Most of you guys weren't even planned back then. Stop with those stupid comparisons.

[hateraid]

LeBron* logic dude, they'll do anything to prop up LeBron*. It's ridiculous... the GOAT discussion ended in 2011 and they still bring it up.

Same could be said for you on Jordan....

[hateraid]

Can we probably try to not bring up MJ once for a whole single page on ISH? Most of you guys weren't even planned back then. Stop with those stupid comparisons.

MJ stans can never let shit go. They always have to hijack every thread reminding everyone how great their idol is

[ImKobe]

no HCA In 93 and 98

93 Suns had the MVP of the league in Barkley and prime Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerie, Dumas, Ainge, the Suns were basically the Warriors of the 90s if you look at how they had the best offense in the league and led the league in 3pt attempts, makes and was top 3 in % with the best record in the league with a top 10 defense.

the 93 Bulls had no HCA in ECF and the Finals, they were down 0 - 2 to the Knicks and responded with a backdoor sweep, the series was 3 - 2 Chicago but since they had no HCA the Suns had the last two games at home under the old format, the Bulls won by 1 point, the Bulls managed to win 3 out of their 4 games on the road in that series after losing twice at home

1998

the Bulls were up 3 - 2 in the series with Utah playing at home, Pippen injured his back and was most likely out for the series had Jordan not hit the game-winner and scored 45 of the Bulls' 87 points, imagine if the Jazz won and had a Game 7 at home to win the series with Pippen not being able to play.

Jordan faced a lot of adversity in his career, but he never lost in the Finals when it counted. You say the 90s was weak but look how many close games Jordan won and how many game-winners he hit and facilitated.

[ImKobe]

MJ stans can never let shit go. They always have to hijack every thread reminding everyone how great their idol is

Retard, this thread was made by a Bran stan, only reason MJ really gets brought up is because someone is stupid enough to compare someone's accomplishments to his when they don't even come close.

The only MJ stan that brings up Jordan every once in a while is 3Ball, that's pretty much it.

[hateraid]

Retard, this thread was made by a Bran stan, only reason MJ really gets brought up is because someone is stupid enough to compare someone's accomplishments to his when they don't even come close.

The only MJ stan that brings up Jordan every once in a while is 3Ball, that's pretty much it.

Read the post again retard. Again, you really lack any sense of comprehension.

And no, Jordan stans dont get dragged in. The force their way. As soon as an accomplishment is brought up not even comparing anyone with Jordan cue in the Jordan stans.

But you're one of them so you obviously wouldn't recognize it. I could take the time to link everytime you've done it. But too easy.

[ImKobe]

Read the post again retard. Again, you really lack any sense of comprehension.

And no, Jordan stans dont get dragged in. The force their way. As soon as an accomplishment is brought up not even comparing anyone with Jordan cue in the Jordan stans.

But you're one of them so you obviously wouldn't recognize it. I could take the time to link everytime you've done it. But too easy.

lol

since Jordan's retirement, every time some new great player has a great Playoff run they get compared to Jordan and the bandwagoners come in

Lebron won in 2012 and 2013, you had Bran stans saying he's greater than MJ. Cavs won last night, yep we have another thread discrediting MJ to prop up James.

Curry won last year and went 73-9 this year, all of a sudden he's a better offensive player than Jordan

There's maybe 2-3 MJ stans that post on ISH in a span of one month, it's mostly Lebron/Curry/Kobe stans comparing them to the GOAT and getting laughed out of the thread, let's be real here.

You're one of the worst posters on ISH when it comes to any kind of basketball knowledge, you shouldn't be talking shit anyways.

[3ball]

.
Jordan was an underdog in 1991:


NBA.com:



"Even with that and home court advantage, the Bulls were considered big underdogs to the Lakers in the Finals and the vast majority of media "experts" predicted an easy Lakers' victory."

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/top-20-moments-1990-91-season.html//




Rolling Stones listed their top 14 playoff upsets, which included the 1991 Bulls:



We know Michael Jordan as Michael Jordan — six-time champion, greatest of all time, in desperate need of a good tailor. But when he went head-to-head with Magic Johnson's Lakers in his first Finals appearance, he seemed like just another upstart due to be defeated by the late-period Showtime squad. Instead, Jordan coronated himself as the best by leading a convincing five-game victory, and so another baton was passed between generations: It was now MJ's league, and he'd win five more championships within the next seven years."

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/lists/14-biggest-nba-playoff-upsets-20140417/chicago-bulls-defeat-los-angeles-lakers-1991-19691231




Jordan also won 2 Finals without homecourt (1993 and 1998)

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan as an underdog lost three straight times to the Bad Boys, so not that surprising really.

[Stringer Bell]

Bulls were underdogs in 1991 and 1998.

Quit lying.


1991? Are you actually serious? Lakers were significant underdogs already the previous series against the Blazers... it was a last run type thing. They were beaten up, too... 1998? Possibly, but in large part due to Pippen missing half of the regular season.

Chicago was a slight betting favorite in the 1998 Finals. It was viewed by many as a pick-em. Chicago was looking very fatigued in their 7 game series against Indiana, while Utah had dominated LA and was viewed as the deeper, fresher team.

The Lakers were definitely the underdog against the Blazers, but I don't know if they were actually the underdogs in the finals against Chicago. Some thought the experience factor would be too much. Going into the series, neither team was a big favorite/underdog.

[97 bulls]

Honestly. In my opinion, there's only been 3 instances where I believed the Bulls were in a position where they might lose. In 91 vs the Pistons and Lakers. And in 96 vs the Magic. And they had a combined record of 12 and 1 vs those teams. And the one win came off a last second shot by Sam Perkins of the Lakers in 91.

Just an awesome team.

[hateraid]

lol

since Jordan's retirement, every time some new great player has a great Playoff run they get compared to Jordan and the bandwagoners come in

Lebron won in 2012 and 2013, you had Bran stans saying he's greater than MJ. Cavs won last night, yep we have another thread discrediting MJ to prop up James.

Curry won last year and went 73-9 this year, all of a sudden he's a better offensive player than Jordan

There's maybe 2-3 MJ stans that post on ISH in a span of one month, it's mostly Lebron/Curry/Kobe stans comparing them to the GOAT and getting laughed out of the thread, let's be real here.

You're one of the worst posters on ISH when it comes to any kind of basketball knowledge, you shouldn't be talking shit anyways.

Lol, nobody is discrediting Jordan you ****. And because somebody feels Lebron is better is not discrediting Jordan. It's a personal opinion. People are allowed to have them.

But you Jordan stans get so bent out of shape about it. Hence hijacking any thread that would praise another player making sure that everyone knows Jordan is the greatest.

The problem is you don't think objectively. You think every single post is dedicated to bringing down Jordan.

Posters says , "Curry is the greatest offensive player of all time."
You automatically think it's to discredit Jordan. When in fact his name wasn't even mentioned. Can't a Wilt stan assume it's to discredit Wilt? Saying Curry is the greatest isn't addressing anyone in particular.

My basketball knowledge is top tier. I've had threads where people have requested to learn NBA history and it's players from me. You lack basic comprehension skills and relay all posts to sucking Jordan's dick. Real talk. In a real NBA circle I'd eat you up and chew you out. Not only is your NBA knowledge very basic, you're just a dumb person.

Hater out, *drops mic*

[Roundball_Rock]

In terms of wins here is how it looks:

Bulls 61, Lakers 58
Bulls 67, Blazers 57
Suns 62, Bulls 57
Bulls 72, Sonics 64
Bulls 69, Jazz 64
Bulls/Jazz 62

So clearly they were superior in terms of performance. That of course is not a perfect metric: after all they had a GOAT-caliber player and their opponents did not. MJ was a big part of those strong records. However, LeBron's teams also had a similar caliber of player so it is a wash.

In terms of HOF'ers here is how it looks:

Bulls 2, Lakers 2
Bulls 2, Blazers 1
Bulls 2, Suns 1
Bulls 3, Sonics 1
Bulls 3 (technically 4 but I don't count Parish), Jazz 2
Bulls 3, Jazz 2

The above does not count Phil Jackson--arguably the GOAT coach.

This all suggests strong inherent advantages for Jordan's team over his opponents.

In contrast look at the same for LeBron. Wins:

Spurs 58, Cavs 50
Heat 58, Mavs 57
Thunder 47, Heat 46
Heat 66, Spurs 58
Spurs 62, Heat 54
Warriors 67, Cavs 53
Warriors 73, Cavs 57

In other words for Jordan it was +3, +10, -5, +8, +5, equal.
For LeBron James it was -8, +1, -1, +8, -8, -14, -16.
There is an obvious stark difference here.

How about HOF'ers?

Spurs 3, Cavs 1
Heat 3, Mavs 1
Heat 3, OKC 3
Spurs 4, Heat 3
Spurs 4, Heat 3
Warriors 3, Cavs 2 (I didn't count Love since he didn't play in the Finals)
Warriors 3, Cavs 3

LeBron has had more HOFers only in 2011 and has been even only twice.
Jordan had more HOFers each time except for 91' and even then he was even.

[Rondo]

And many picked the Suns in 93. But obviously MJ had better teams, as evidenced by them winning 6 titles. Once the Bulls started winning, no one felt comfortable picking against MJ. Even when he came out of retirement and only played 17 games leading into the playoffs, many thought he could pull it off through sheer will.

MJ had better teams because of him. It's no coincidence they won 3 straight pre-retirement and 3 straight post-comeback.

[Dro]

He had better teams because umm....they had MJ on them...smh...

[Roundball_Rock]

I think the argument is MJ had a better "supporting cast." That is, if you removed MJ from the team and then also removed the best player from the other team which team wins? We actually have some real world data on this point:

94' Bulls without Jordan: 55 wins
94' Suns with Barkley: 56 wins
94' Blazers with Drexler: 48 wins (only two years removed)

Who wins if you remove the best player from each team? (Magic, Drexler, Barkley, Payton, Malone). IMO:

91' Bulls win
92' Bulls win
93' Bulls win
96' Sonics win (the Bulls were a bit banged up by the Finals and the Sonics were strong)
97' Bulls win
98' Bulls win