Whats your official top 10 now

[juju151111]

After the finals has your top 10 changed?

[NBAGOAT]

well yes. Lebron was fringe top 5 before but not it's more like 4-5 imo.

Edit:

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Lebron
Magic
Shaq
Russell
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem

[Nilocon165]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Russel
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. ilt

[Klay 3D]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Magic

36. Kyrie
37. Curry

[Quickening]

The top ten stay the same, Lebron just jumps to three behind MJ and Kareem.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Shaq
7. Russell
8. Bird
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem

[ArbitraryWater]

I'll have to sit back and really think about how I'll rank MJ/Kareem/Bron.. but Kobe's not making this, that I know right now.

[Lebronxrings]

1a. Jordan
1b. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6.Bird
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Hakeem
10. Horry (kobetard logic)

[Quickening]

I'll have to sit back and really think about how I'll rank MJ/Kareem/Bron.. but Kobe's not making this, that I know right now.

Lebron certainly passes Kareem by the time he hangs them up, just needs another 2-3 seasons of elite play.

[jlip]

Nah... I rank by tiers anyway.

Tier 1- Russell, Wilt, Kareem, MJ

Tier 2- Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron (Hardest tier for me, because cases can be made for either Magic, Bird, or Shaq to enter my tier 1 IMO. Lebron is headed in that direction.)

Tier 3-Oscar, West, Dr. J, Moses Malone, Hakeem, Kobe

[Cold soul]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Kobe
7. Lebron
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Bird

These list are all subjective and can be interchangeable in various ways.

[pauk]

1. Michael Jordan.
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
3-6. Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Lebron James, Magic Johnson.
6-10. Larry Bird, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant.
9-11. Hakeem Olajuwon, Oscar Robertson
11-15. Jerry West, Moses Malone, Julius Erving.

Minimum #6.
Maximum #3.

[Quickening]

I find it crazy how people can put Kobe above Shaq, these are two guys who played together for a long time and it was clear cut who was the best player... they both have similar longevity, Shaq an extra FMVP, Kobe an extra championship.

How do people rate Kobe above Shaq, on what basis? It blows my mind a bit.

[imdaman99]

I find it crazy how people can put Kobe above Shaq, these are two guys who played together for a long time and it was clear cut who was the best player... they both have similar longevity, Shaq an extra FMVP, Kobe an extra championship.

How do people rate Kobe above Shaq, on what basis? It blows my mind a bit.
Well because Kobe maximized his potential while Shaq came up well short. Shaq had GOAT physical ability, Kobe was a great athlete but hardly a physical specimen. Shaq was lazy and left too many teams with a bad taste in his mouth as well as the team he left behind. He was extremely immature and jealous of Penny, Kobe, Wade.

Shaq was the MDE but he also got swept out of the playoffs too many times.

I know you're a Lebron stan which automatically means you hate Kobe, so I don't expect you to ever agree.

[Trollsmasher]

1. MJ
2. LeBron
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Timmy
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

[pauk]

Its Bill Russell i find the most difficult to rank... he is either #1 or #10.... there is no inbetween... you either fully accept that he has ***ing 11 championships in which he could of had 11 FMVPs and 11 damn DPOYs if they existed (and 5 MVPs) and place him #1 with a crazy gap... or you blame it on the weak era and his goat stacked team and that he was "just a Ben Wallace" or whatever and place him #10....

[Klay 3D]

I find it crazy how people can put Kobe above Shaq, these are two guys who played together for a long time and it was clear cut who was the best player... they both have similar longevity, Shaq an extra FMVP, Kobe an extra championship.

How do people rate Kobe above Shaq, on what basis? It blows my mind a bit.
They played together, but Kobe was like 24 years old when he last played with Shaq. Still dropped 30/7/6 at that age. Dude ended up winning 2 more titles without Shaq as the main man. Shaq only won once more as a second fiddle averaging 13ppg. Kobe made many all-defensive teams too.

It's not out of the realm of comprehension to have Kobe>Shaq.

[Quickening]

Well because Kobe maximized his potential while Shaq came up well short. Shaq had GOAT physical ability, Kobe was a great athlete but hardly a physical specimen. Shaq was lazy and left too many teams with a bad taste in his mouth as well as the team he left behind. He was extremely immature and jealous of Penny, Kobe, Wade.

Shaq was the MDE but he also got swept out of the playoffs too many times.

I know you're a Lebron stan which automatically means you hate Kobe, so I don't expect you to ever agree.

None of what you just said explains why Kobe should be ranked higher... Shaq being lazy or not, he still was the significantly better player in their primes, as we seen when we they played together.. they both had a similar amount of elite seasons.

Your logic is, that if Shaq would have worked out more he would have been even better and therefore we should ignore he was better than Kobe anyway? :confusedshrug:

How many times did Kobe team miss the playoffs, or exit the first round post Shaq... enough.

Kobe doesn't have an argument over Shaq... you thinking he spent more time in the gym doesn't alter who was actually more impactful on the floor.


They played together, but Kobe was like 24 years old when he last played with Shaq. Still dropped 30/7/6 at that age. Dude ended up winning 2 more titles without Shaq as the main man. Shaq only won once more as a second fiddle averaging 13ppg. Kobe made many all-defensive teams too.

It's not out of the realm of comprehension to have Kobe>Shaq.

Yes Shaq won three rings as the main main, Kobe won two... A lot of people would argue that Kobe was at his peak around 2003, on the offensive and defensive end. Yet everyone knew Shaq was the better player, there is a reason he is labelled the MDE.

So Shaq had a better peak/prime... both had similar amount of elite seasons. There is no reason to have Kobe above Shaq, its ridiculous.

[tpols]

MJ
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Lebron
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe





I find it crazy how people can put Kobe above Shaq, these are two guys who played together for a long time and it was clear cut who was the best player... they both have similar longevity, Shaq an extra FMVP, Kobe an extra championship.

How do people rate Kobe above Shaq, on what basis? It blows my mind a bit.


Shaq was at his peak and Kobe was young/pre-prime for most the time when they played together.. so that logic is dumb. It'd be like saying how could anyone have Shaq over Wade since they played together and Wade was clearly better.. poor logic man.

Kobe led B2B title teams with pau gasol and lamar odom as his sidekicks.. shaq already proved he couldnt win w/o a kobe or wade.. a penny hardaway which is a step below just wasnt enough to win for him, but pau was for kobe.


Shaq is like bron if bron came into camp fat and unmotivated every year for the second half of his career.. he hurt his own legacy, so it's not crazy at all to have kobe over him career wise.


you bron stans are too funny.. your guy won the championship and all you can think about is kobe lol. Let it go, bud.

[feyki]

I don't like making top of the top ranking , like 5 or 10 or 15 . But let's do ;

Russell
Kareem
Jordan
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
Mikan
Bird
Magic

..

Lebron will probably in the top 5 when his career over . Durant could be in the top 10 , but i'm not sure about that . But Curry won't be in that group for sure .

[Cold soul]

MJ
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Lebron
Bird
Wilt
Shaq
Kobe







Shaq was at his peak and Kobe was young/pre-prime for most the time when they played together.. so that logic is dumb. It'd be like saying how could anyone have Shaq over Wade since they played together and Wade was clearly better.. poor logic man.

Kobe led B2B title teams with pau gasol and lamar odom as his sidekicks.. shaq already proved he couldnt win w/o a kobe or wade.. a penny hardaway which is a step below just wasnt enough to win for him, but pau was for kobe.


Shaq is like bron if bron came into camp fat and unmotivated every year for the second half of his career.. he hurt his own legacy, so it's not crazy at all to have kobe over him career wise.


you bron stans are too funny.. your guy won the championship and all you can think about is kobe lol. Let it go, bud.

Is this list in order?

[longhornfan1234]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Russell
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Bird
10. Kobe

[tpols]

Is this list in order?

yup.. 7-10 are interchangeable to me, as are 3-6. Russell and MJ will always be GOATs to me unless bron wins couple more.. their resumes are just unbelievable. And MJ will always be GOAT.. he had all the same high points as Bron, but none of the low points, and you cant erase what already happened.

[Quickening]

Shaq was at his peak and Kobe was young/pre-prime for most the time when they played together.. so that logic is dumb. It'd be like saying how could anyone have Shaq over Wade since they played together and Wade was clearly better.. poor logic man.

Kobe led B2B title teams with pau gasol and lamar odom as his sidekicks.. shaq already proved he couldnt win w/o a kobe or wade.. a penny hardaway which is a step below just wasnt enough to win for him, but pau was for kobe.



Too many strawman arguments... peak Shaq was comfortably a better player than peak Kobe, nobody would dispute that. Prime Shaq, over a 5-6 span is a better player than prime Kobe, only an idiot would dispute that.

Seasons as elite player is a wash... like I said, no reason to have Kobe above Shaq, I think realgm which is a neutral a site as you will get has Kobe around 12-13, and Shaq 4-5.

There is a gulf between the two players. It would be like putting Kobe above Lebron now, just ridiculous and people should be ridiculed and laughed at.

[BlazerRed]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Lebron
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Kobe

[tpols]

Too many strawman arguments... peak Shaq was comfortably a better player than peak Kobe, nobody would dispute that. Prime Shaq, over a 5-6 span is a better player than prime Kobe, only an idiot would dispute that.

Seasons as elite player is a wash... like I said, no reason to have Kobe above Shaq, I think realgm which is a neutral a site as you will get has Kobe around 13, and Shaq 5.

There is a gulf between the two players.


No strawmans, I addressed your argument directly, as did others. Your argument was to judge them when placed alongside each other at different points in their careers .. now, since you realize thats kind of retarded, you're switching to over a 5-6 year period. Careers.. means the whole thing. Like 3 different posters tried to teach you the errors in your thinking process, and now you're switching things up and falling back on opinions from others @ real GM... cop out for not being able to say anything yourself.

[NBASTATMAN]

No strawmans, I addressed your argument directly, as did others. Your argument was to judge them when placed alongside each other at different points in their careers .. now, since you realize thats kind of retarded, you're switching to over a 5-6 year period. Careers.. means the whole thing. Like 3 different posters tried to teach you the errors in your thinking process, and now you're switching things up and falling back on opinions from others @ real GM... cop out for not being able to say anything yourself.


YOU OK BRO... I KNOW YOU WERE MELTING DOWN THE OTHER NIGHT.. Hope you are ok.. :rockon:

[tpols]

YOU OK BRO... I KNOW YOU WERE MELTING DOWN THE OTHER NIGHT.. Hope you are ok.. :rockon:

I'm good bro, no need to yell lol.. I was bein sarcastic in thread I started, tried to make it pretty obvious

[ArbitraryWater]

Well because Kobe maximized his potential while Shaq came up well short. Shaq had GOAT physical ability, Kobe was a great athlete but hardly a physical specimen. Shaq was lazy and left too many teams with a bad taste in his mouth as well as the team he left behind. He was extremely immature and jealous of Penny, Kobe, Wade.

Shaq was the MDE but he also got swept out of the playoffs too many times.

I know you're a Lebron stan which automatically means you hate Kobe, so I don't expect you to ever agree.

you dont see how lazy or terrible these reasons come across?


Its Bill Russell i find the most difficult to rank... he is either #1 or #10.... there is no inbetween... you either fully accept that he has ***ing 11 championships in which he could of had 11 FMVPs and 11 damn DPOYs if they existed (and 5 MVPs) and place him #1 with a crazy gap... or you blame it on the weak era and his goat stacked team and that he was "just a Ben Wallace" or whatever and place him #10....

riiiiiiight kiddo

[ArbitraryWater]

Is this list in order?

lmaooo this guy is shook seing other fans of his guy giving in.. soon he will follow :lol


--


cheers, tpols

[Quickening]

No strawmans, I addressed your argument directly, as did others. Your argument was to judge them when placed alongside each other at different points in their careers .. now, since you realize thats kind of retarded, you're switching to over a 5-6 year period. Careers.. means the whole thing. Like 3 different posters tried to teach you the errors in your thinking process, and now you're switching things up and falling back on opinions from others @ real GM... cop out for not being able to say anything yourself.

Huh? You're the one making strawman arguments, and evading answering any of the questions I posed... who had the better 2-3 year peak? Who had the better 5-6 year prime. 99 percent of people would say Shaq, so why is Kobe ranked higher when Shaq had elite longevity as well?

In my opinion Kobe was at his best as an all round player when he was 23-24 years old, he wasn't a good consistent defender after that point, and yet Shaq was still clearly better.

Like I think Shaq was far better than a 28 year old Kobe, or a 30 year... as is the consensus, if you believe Kobe peaked later.

Like I say only idiots and kobe stans would rank him higher, realgm is about as close as I can get to citing a source to try to open your eyes bro.

Anyway I can see it isn't working, and we are going around in circles a bit. The consensus is that Shaq had a comfortably better career, I just wondered peoples logic who rank Kobe higher and you told me your thoughts :cheers:

[Magic 32]

Like I say only idiots and kobe stans would rank him higher, realgm is about as close as I can get to citing a source to try to open your eyes bro.



http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

[Cold soul]

lmaooo this guy is shook seing other fans of his guy giving in.. soon he will follow :lol


--


cheers, tpols

Well several years ago I said Lebron would surpass Kobe eventually so...

[Chadwin]

Too many strawman arguments... peak Shaq was comfortably a better player than peak Kobe, nobody would dispute that. Prime Shaq, over a 5-6 span is a better player than prime Kobe, only an idiot would dispute that.

Seasons as elite player is a wash... like I said, no reason to have Kobe above Shaq, I think realgm which is a neutral a site as you will get has Kobe around 12-13, and Shaq 4-5.

There is a gulf between the two players. It would be like putting Kobe above Lebron now, just ridiculous and people should be ridiculed and laughed at.

I'm not sure why ISH doesn't have Shaq higher all time. The MVP argument is lame.

[~primetime~]

It's very difficult after Jordan...I'd really have to bust the stats out and do some homework before having a list I felt comfortable with

[Quickening]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

You're are too much buddy

:roll: :roll: :lol :cheers:

[Magic 32]

You're are too much buddy

:roll: :roll: :lol :cheers:

You think Bill is an idiot?

[Quickening]

You think Bill is an idiot?

You're my favourite Kobe stan, you're relentless little man :cheers: :cheers:

[Magic 32]

You're my favourite Kobe stan, you're relentless little man :cheers: :cheers:

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/kid-dancing.gif

[LikeABosh]

1. Lebron James
2. Lebron
3.James
4. Bron
5. King James
6. LeGod
7. LeGOAT
8. Lealpha
9. LeThick
10. Steph Curry's step father

[tpols]

lmaooo this guy is shook seing other fans of his guy giving in.. soon he will follow :lol


--


cheers, tpols

cheers aw, hope you're having fun sport

[the mesiah]

This list changes depending on the week ,

1.Jordan
2.Magic
3.Lew
4.Wilt
5.Bird
6.Duncan
7.Kobe
8.Lebron
9.Shaq
10.russell

[bond10]

You guys are crazy and just roused up...after a few weeks when your brains are back to thinking logically...the top 10 will be like this:

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Lebron
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Kobe

[Mr Feeny]

I'd go with :

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. Ilt

I'm leaning towards saying I have lebron at 2 but it seems premature. I think I need another mvp or title to help work through the cognitive dissonance that comes with putting him 2nd.but I don't think kareem is better than he is.

I think we're watching the 2nd greatest basketball player of all time.

[Chadwin]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. LeBron
9. Bird
10. Hakeem

[Bosnian Sajo]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Kobe
4. Shaq
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Lebron
10. Hakeem

[ArbitraryWater]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Kobe
4. Shaq
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Lebron
10. Hakeem












http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/lol-duck.gif

[Cold soul]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/lol-duck.gif

That gif is a classic.

[ninephive]

1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Duncan
5. Lebron
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Bird
9. Shad
10. Kobe

[Riley Martin]

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
LeBron

[DMAVS41]

Assuming no huge injury for Lebron...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Duncan
6. KAJ
7. Wilt
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

If at age 31 Lebron is capable of beating that Warriors team with this Cavs team...with a broken as **** jumper for most of the series. I give up...I don't know what else to say. It's a flaw...an actual big flaw in his game, but the ****er is so good that he can overcome it and do historical things like this.

I didn't see Russell or Wilt play...so it's hard to rank them.

Lebron is now officially the 2nd best player I've ever seen...slightly over Magic and Duncan for guys I'd draft to start a team knowing their abilities and how their careers played out.

Back in 09 and 10 I thought Lebron had a legit shot to be GOAT...then 11 happened...and his game didn't quite develop the way I thought it would and I thought that would prevent him from challenging MJ.

This title is huge for that though...I still take MJ in a second over Lebron peak vs peak, but Lebron has a chance to do something from a longevity standpoint that has simply never been done. He's already 13 years in...if this dude is the best or one of the best players in the league for the next 5 years (I would not be shocked at this point)...he's simply going to have an unprecedented run. And if he adds more titles and more iconic performances...we are going to have to have some interesting conversations.

**** me if this guy somehow develops a consistent jumper as he ages...

[Odinn]

1a. Michael Jordan
1b. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O'Neal or LeBron James
5. LeBron James or Shaquille O'Neal
6. Tim Duncan
7. Larry Bird
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. Magic Johnson
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Kobe Bryant
12. Moses Malone

[HALLandOATES]

Hes top 5 to me but him being as low as 3 wouldnt bother me

Mj and Kareem are the only ones that are over him until he outs them in titles won,so he isn't getting any higher than 3 unless he wins 5,6 titles.

Number 3 is still f*cking awesome and hes established himself as clear cut better then Kobe,Duncan,Hakeem,Russell ,Wilt and probably Shaq.( I'd have Shaq at number 3 if he had 2-3 more years of prime play)

Bird and Magic are really the only interchangables to me for him in top 5

I think Durant will def be in the top 10 before his career is over to..

[ArbitraryWater]

DMAVS, why are you so low on Kareem? Is it his uninspiring leadership?

[ScalsFan21]

1. Jordan
2. LeBron
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Russell
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Wilt

As DMavs mentioned, I find it borderline impossible to definitively rank either Russell or "ilt". Not only did I never see them play but the game really was so different at the time. I think they're both worthy of top 10-12 status or higher though. I didn't realize how many bigs I have in my personal top 10 until I just thought about it.

[Doranku]

I am also curious as to why you have Kareem so low, DMavs.

Anyway, my list:

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Bill
4. LeBron
5. Magic/Ducan
6. Duncan/Magic
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Wilt
10. Kobe

[Cold soul]

Hes top 5 to me but him being as low as 3 wouldnt bother me

Mj and Kareem are the only ones that are over him until he outs them in titles won,so he isn't getting any higher than 3 unless he wins 5,6 titles.

Number 3 is still f*cking awesome and hes established himself as clear cut better then Kobe,Duncan,Hakeem,Russell ,Wilt and probably Shaq.( I'd have Shaq at number 3 if he had 2-3 more years of prime play)

Bird and Magic are really the only interchangables to me for him in top 5

I think Durant will def be in the top 10 before his career is over to..

What? Durant will be lucky be in top 25 outside his MVP season in 14 what has he accomplished?

[NBAGOAT]

What? Durant will be lucky be in top 25 outside his MVP season in 14 what has he accomplished?

6 years of I wanna say being top 5 in the league, 4 being top 3. A peak on the level of guys like Oscar, Kobe, Wade, and Tmac if not better. Obviously, he's also going be great for awhile and he really doesn't have a black mark in the playoffs besides this year. top 10 will be tough as hell since all those guys are great but it's not impossible.

[K Xerxes]

I do tiers:

Tier 1: MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt

Tier 2: Shaq, LeBron, Duncan

Tier 3: Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe

So right now I have LeBron firmly between 5 and 7. It's hard to rank players I've not seen though, so he's either the second or third best I've seen at the time. I'm having a hard time between him and Shaq, but I think peak Shaq was simply too great, and definitely better than LeBron. Though LeBron's all around impact and versatility is something unprecedented, and is what makes him unique and unlike any other player.

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS, why are you so low on Kareem? Is it his uninspiring leadership?

Long story short...yes.

[ShawkFactory]

Long story short...yes.
I can understand where you're coming from there, but he was just too great of a player to have outside of the top 5. Look at his accomplishments. Unreal

I love Timmy but I don't think there's any way he can be ranked above Kareem.

[leMVP]

From whole basketball/acclodes perspective:

1.Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. LeBron
5. Shaq
6. Magic/Bird
7.Bird/Magic
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

From basketball perspective alone.

1. Jordan/Lebron
2. Lebron/Jordan
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kareem
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

3-6 interchangeable.

[DMAVS41]

I can understand where you're coming from there, but he was just too great of a player to have outside of the top 5. Look at his accomplishments. Unreal

I love Timmy but I don't think there's any way he can be ranked above Kareem.

Okay...well, he wasn't out of my top 5 until Lebron entered it.

Yes, his accomplishments are great, but so are Duncan's, for example. I'm not sure how many MVP's Duncan wins in the 70's in place of Kareem...but I know it's considerably more than the two he won in this era. So I don't think it's a strong argument to go down the MVP road there.

They both had absurd longevity. They were both great two way players. Kareem better on offense. Duncan better on defense.

Again, Kareem solely as a basketball player in terms of skill was superior to Duncan. I get this and agree with it.

However...

You ask me who I want to start a franchise with...I'll take Duncan. I'll take the unselfish two way monster that was a great leader, great teammate, put his franchise first no matter what, made sacrifices both on and off the court, proved he could win playing any style...etc.

And certainly didn't have the luxury of a Magic.

Not saying Kareem wasn't great...and have no issue with someone taking him over everyone all time. I just disagree.

[Fudge]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Magic
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Russell
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

[r0drig0lac]

GOAT LEVEL
1- MJ
2- BILL

TIER 2
3- KAJ
4- WILT

TIER 3
5- DUNCAN
6- LEBRON
7- SHAQ
8- BIRD
9- MAGIC

TIER 4
10- KOBE
11- Dr. J
12- DREAM
13- WEST
14- OSCAR

[brownmamba00]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
4. Larry Bird
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. LeBron James
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Bill Russell/Wilt/Mikan/Oscar

I can't judge on pre 70s bball so I put them at 10.

4 to 8 is interchangeable really

[SexSymbol]

1.Bill Russell
2.Michael Jordan
3.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4.Larry Bird
5.Magic Johnson
6-8.Kobe Bryant
6-8.Tim Duncan
6-8.Shaquille O'neal
9.LeBron James
10.Hakeem Olajuwon
If we're counting ABA as valuable as nba then Dr.J in 9 and bump bron to 10

[Derka]

GOAT LEVEL
1- MJ
2- BILL

TIER 2
3- KAJ
4- WILT

TIER 3
5- DUNCAN
6- LEBRON
7- SHAQ
8- BIRD
9- MAGIC

TIER 4
10- KOBE
11- Dr. J
12- DREAM
13- WEST
14- OSCAR

This. Exactly this for me. Lebron moves into the Larry/Magic tier with this one and if he wins another one, he goes up with Duncan above both of them but below KAJ and Wilt.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Assuming no huge injury for Lebron...

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Duncan
6. KAJ
7. Wilt
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

If at age 31 Lebron is capable of beating that Warriors team with this Cavs team...with a broken as **** jumper for most of the series. I give up...I don't know what else to say. It's a flaw...an actual big flaw in his game, but the ****er is so good that he can overcome it and do historical things like this.

I didn't see Russell or Wilt play...so it's hard to rank them.

Lebron is now officially the 2nd best player I've ever seen...slightly over Magic and Duncan for guys I'd draft to start a team knowing their abilities and how their careers played out.

Back in 09 and 10 I thought Lebron had a legit shot to be GOAT...then 11 happened...and his game didn't quite develop the way I thought it would and I thought that would prevent him from challenging MJ.

This title is huge for that though...I still take MJ in a second over Lebron peak vs peak, but Lebron has a chance to do something from a longevity standpoint that has simply never been done. He's already 13 years in...if this dude is the best or one of the best players in the league for the next 5 years (I would not be shocked at this point)...he's simply going to have an unprecedented run. And if he adds more titles and more iconic performances...we are going to have to have some interesting conversations.

**** me if this guy somehow develops a consistent jumper as he ages...


Why the FUUUUCCCK do you say that as if he is playing with a bunch of scrubs? The Warriors and Cavs are easily the most stacked teams in the league, you acting like Kyrie and co are a bunch of scrubs?? :facepalm




These Lebron nut huggers are too much.

[Keno]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Magic
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Russell
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

damn, probably the best list I seen. :applause: spot on

[DMAVS41]

Why the FUUUUCCCK do you say that as if he is playing with a bunch of scrubs? The Warriors and Cavs are easily the most stacked teams in the league, you acting like Kyrie and co are a bunch of scrubs?? :facepalm




These Lebron nut huggers are too much.

A few things;

1. You can always tell when you are being objective and balanced because you'll have different people accuse of being a "stan" and "hater" while posting.

2. Scrubs? Hardly, but you aren't understanding what a nightmare matchup that is for the Cavs. Frye is unplayable. Delly is unplayable. Love is severely diminished.

3. If you can't marvel at what did the last 3 games of that series...especially games 5/6...I give up. I've been hard on Lebron recently for his inability to make jumpers...then he made jumper after jumper in games 5/6 and willed his team to a game 7. And while he didn't play his best game...he did enough and won the title in epic fashion.

4. Like it or not...there is nothing more to really say about Lebron. He's proven, despite his flaws as a player (and he does have them), that he's capable of doing things that are unprecedented. He's one of the handful of best players ever...and barring and injury...he's the 2nd best player all things considered I've seen in my lifetime.

5. This stuff is fragile...that is why I'm always arguing with people on here about results mattering and how one plays matters. It simply matters that Lebron had an epic finish to drag his team to victory down 3-1...rather than just losing in game 5 with a poor performance. We have to give the man credit for what he did. What can't just say..."yea...we knew how good Lebron was in 2010 and nothing else needs to happen"

Lebron came up huge when his team needed him the most and overcame a big hurdle for him with his range shooting and made it happen.

Nothing else to say other than wow and respect.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

it's too fugging impossible to 1. narrow it to 10, and 2. organize the 10 in exact order. So I'm going (tier members are in random order)

Tier 1 - Michael Jordan
Tier 2 - LeBron James
Tier 3 - Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird
Tier 4 - Kobe Bryant
Tier 5/#10 - Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Hakeem Olajuwan (roll a dice, any of those are fine at #10)

[GoSpursGo1984]

So Lebron is now 3-7 and now people think he is behind or just as good as Jordan lol people are such prisoners of the moment

[Nilocon165]

So Lebron is now 3-7 and now people think he is behind or just as good as Jordan lol people are such prisoners of the moment
He just led a 1-3 comeback while leading in every category against one of the best teams of all time

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

So Lebron is now 3-7 and now people think he is behind or just as good as Jordan lol people are such prisoners of the moment
Do you watch basketball? Or just look at resumes?

[GoSpursGo1984]

Do you watch basketball? Or just look at resumes?

No I do I saw a guy who got bailed out by Ray Allen in one Finals and in another got help by the NBA to get Draymond Green suspended and got carried by Kyrie Irving in Game 7.

[scandisk_]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Lebron
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Shaq

[Dray n Klay]

No I do I saw a guy who got bailed out by Ray Allen in one Finals and in another got help by the NBA to get Draymond Green suspended and got carried by Kyrie Irving in Game 7.


Going by that logic, duncan doesnt even have 1 legit ring :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

He just led a 1-3 comeback while leading in every category against one of the best teams of all time


you guys really need to stop wording it like the cavs weren't on the same talent level plane as the warriors were.. Lebron's second option was a 27 ppg player.. and none of the warriors were playing up to their potential besides draymond green, who was suspended in the game 5 swing game which flipped momentum and made golden state's defense soft as butter (especially with bogut simultaneously going down). Lebron exploded, but he didnt do it til all these issues piled on.. every all time great catches breaks so you still have to give him his due, but please.. the exxagerations on this best team ever.. Curry and Klay threw that away this post season, and it was becoming pretty evident even in the WCFs when it took strings of miracle shots for them to win. That combined w/ the injuries and misseed time and they were hardly the best team ever. There are a ton of teams that couldve beat them in the condition they were in by the end of the playoffs.

[scandisk_]

you guys really need to stop wording it like the cavs weren't on the same talent level plane as the warriors were.. Lebron's second option was a 27 ppg player.. and none of the warriors were playing up to their potential besides draymond green, who was suspended in the game 5 swing game which flipped momentum and made golden state's defense soft as butter (especially with bogut simultaneously going down). Lebron exploded, but he didnt do it til all these issues piled on.. every all time great catches breaks so you still have to give him his due, but please.. the exxagerations on this best team ever.. Curry and Klay threw that away this post season, and it was becoming pretty evident even in the WCFs when it took strings of miracle shots for them to win.

Years from now that narrative that he posted will be SET IN STONE. It's all LeBron, just like MJ with no Pip and Kobe with no Pau

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

No I do I saw a guy who got bailed out by Ray Allen in one Finals and in another got help by the NBA to get Draymond Green suspended and got carried by Kyrie Irving in Game 7.
funny. I see a 6'8" beast who can run and fly w/ the best of them, has some of the best court vision, passing skills, and bball IQ in history, can post, can drive, can shoot, can rebound, can defend at godly levels, can take over games, can get his entire team involved, ...basically can pretty much do anything required of any player at the highest level in the sport. Who else can claim this? :confusedshrug:

The only thing holding him back is he isn't a super-alpha psychopath. But, we're talking basketball, not psychology, right?

[CAstill]

The all time list by skilled dominance and accolades combined.

1. Jordan - Is what it is. He had a fairy tale career. No one better.


Second tier - fell short but at peak play was unstoppable
2. Kobe
3. Shaq

Those two are the greatest duo of all time. They both get credit for the threepeat. They both reached a level of play that only Jordan has reached.

3rd tier - Has the accolades and peak play too but why don't I get a mention?list. (Slightly out skilled)
4. Duncan
5. Magic
6. Kareem
7. Lebron.

This is where Lebron has landed now, lucky number 7. If he keeps winning he will be in top 5. Kareem has one of the better resumes but I feel the players listed before are better skilled and could impact the game more. Magic and Duncan both just got it done no questions asked. Duncan missing the dominance and Magic out skilled by the top of the list.

Great but not long enough
8. Bird
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem.

All top tier but accolades don't measure or injury cut career short. Bird is victim of injuries. Wilt needs more than 2 titles. Hakeem too. All top 10 players though.

[NBAGOAT]

The all time list by skilled dominance and accolades combined.

1. Jordan - Is what it is. He had a fairy tale career. No one better.


Second tier - fell short but at peak play was unstoppable
2. Kobe
3. Shaq

Those two are the greatest duo of all time. They both get credit for the threepeat. They both reached a level of play that only Jordan has reached.

3rd tier - Has the accolades and peak play too but why don't I get a mention?list. (Slightly out skilled)
4. Duncan
5. Magic
6. Kareem
7. Lebron.

This is where Lebron has landed now, lucky number 7. If he keeps winning he will be in top 5. Kareem has one of the better resumes but I feel the players listed before are better skilled and could impact the game more. Magic and Duncan both just got it done no questions asked. Duncan missing the dominance and Magic out skilled by the top of the list.

Great but not long enough
8. Bird
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem.

All top tier but accolades don't measure or injury cut career short. Bird is victim of injuries. Wilt needs more than 2 titles. Hakeem too. All top 10 players though.

Even Tmac has reached a level of play similar to Kobe if you're looking at a single year, get out of here :lol

[CAstill]

Even Tmac has reached a level of play similar to Kobe if you're looking at a single year, get out of here :lol

Tmac has never reached a level of championship play :roll:
Kobe has always been a better player, you're a clown sit down.

[Segatti]

1. Kareem
2. Lebron
3. Russell
4. Jordan
5. Shaq
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Hakeem
9. Bird
10. Duncan

[Bernie Nips]

1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Kareem
4. Lebron
5. Russell
6. Magic
7. Wilt
8. Shaq
9. Duncan
10. Kobe

[NBAGOAT]

Tmac has never reached a level of championship play :roll:
Kobe has always been a better player, you're a clown sit down.

so you don't consider 06 Kobe the best version of Kobe? There's not much difference at all between 06 Kobe and 03 Tmac. Anyway, 01-03 tmac could've won a title with Shaq, got to apply context.

[Im Still Ballin]

http://im2.ezgif.com/tmp/1545fb7291.gif

[raprap]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. LeBron
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

[inclinerator]

3-5 range havent made my decision

[90sgoat]

This win meant Lebron gets to keep his 9-13 position, while if he lost he would have fallen to 15-18 position.

I have Lebron as a very generous 11.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

This win meant Lebron gets to keep his 9-13 position, while if he lost he would have fallen to 15-18 position.

I have Lebron as a very generous 11.
:lol :hammerhead:

[Lebron23]

This win meant Lebron gets to keep his 9-13 position, while if he lost he would have fallen to 15-18 position.

I have Lebron as a very generous 11.


Wannabee Skip Bayless

[Fudge]

No I do I saw a guy who got bailed out by Ray Allen in one Finals and in another got help by the NBA to get Draymond Green suspended and got carried by Kyrie Irving in Game 7.
ME
LT
DO
WN

[CAstill]

so you don't consider 06 Kobe the best version of Kobe? There's not much difference at all between 06 Kobe and 03 Tmac. Anyway, 01-03 tmac could've won a title with Shaq, got to apply context.


Kobe was already a 3 time champ by that season. He already learned how to be a champion. Doesn't matter he didn't win it that year.

[masonanddixon]

Jordan
Bird
Kareem
Kobe
West
Wilt
Oscar
Russell
Duncan
Almighty

[IllegalD]

1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) Shaq
6) LeBron
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Wilt
10) Russell

[Nilocon165]

1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) Shaq
6) LeBron
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Wilt
10) Russell
:biggums:
This is awful. Do you even basketball?

[masonanddixon]

:biggums:
This is awful. Do you even basketball?

Whats so bad about his list? It's not like anyone here watched NBA prior to about 2000.

[IllegalD]

:biggums:
This is awful. Do you even basketball?

It's only awful to you because you're a LeBron nutrider and probably 15 years old.

Aren't you also from Cleveland? You guys know very little about championship sports until very recently, so you have a warped perspective of things. :roll:

[Nilocon165]

Whats so bad about his list? It's not like anyone here watched NBA prior to about 2000.
Kobe at 2? Wilt ahead of Russell? Magic not top 5? Duncan at 4?

[Kiddlovesnets]

1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) Shaq
6) LeBron
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Wilt
10) Russell

http://eduncovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg

[Nilocon165]

http://eduncovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg
thank you

[IllegalD]

Kobe at 2? Wilt ahead of Russell? Magic not top 5? Duncan at 4?


Magic never won a championship without Kareem (another GOAT/Top 10 level player) and isn't an elite defensive player. Also average longevity. #context

[Kiddlovesnets]

thank you

Well Kobe should be below Lebron, this is unquestionable, or I should say he was already below Lebron with or without Cavs winning this one.

[G0ATbe]

1. Kobe
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. O'neal
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Russell
9. Hakeem
10. Moses

[Nilocon165]

Magic never won a championship without Kareem (another GOAT/Top 10 level player) and isn't an elite defensive player. Also average longevity. #context
Still doesn't explain my other 3

[Prime_Shaq]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4-7. Magic/Shaq/LeBron/Bird
8-10. Kobe/Wilt/Hakeem

[Kiddlovesnets]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Magic Johnson
4. Kareem Abdur Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Tim Duncan
7. Lebron James
8. Bill Russell
9. Shaquille O'neal
10. Oscar Robertson

[masonanddixon]

Kobe at 2? Wilt ahead of Russell? Magic not top 5? Duncan at 4?

Kobe at 2 isn't far fetched at all, from 04-07 he was playing at a Jordan level and in a very tough conference.

None of us actually saw Wilt and Russell.

Why is Magic top 5? Pretty much everyone in the 80s agreed Bird was the better player.

Whats wrong with Duncan at 4? 5 titles and had one of the greatest runs ever in 02-03.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobe at 2 isn't far fetched at all, from 04-07 he was playing at a Jordan level and in a very tough conference.

None of us actually saw Wilt and Russell.

Why is Magic top 5? Pretty much everyone in the 80s agreed Bird was the better player.

Whats wrong with Duncan at 4? 5 titles and had one of the greatest runs ever in 02-03.

Well ESPN and SportsIllustrated both had Kobe at #12, while RealGM's voting had Kobe at #13. I know one media/source may be biased, but multiple sources have confirmed that Kobe is at around 12-13 so its not a coincidence to me.

[masonanddixon]

Well ESPN and SportsIllustrated both had Kobe at #12, while RealGM's voting had Kobe at #13. I know one media/source may be biased, but multiple sources have confirmed that Kobe is at around 12-13 so its not a coincidence to me.

lol thats like saying the media is right every time it blames a white cop when a black thug gets killed.

You're a grown man, you should be able to form opinions of your own. I watched Kobe with my own two eyes against Dallas when he outscored my own team, and thats something no else I have ever watched besides Jordan could dream of doing.

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol thats like saying the media is right every time it blames a white cop when a black thug gets killed.

You're a grown man, you should be able to form opinions of your own. I watched Kobe with my own two eyes against Dallas when he outscored my own team, and thats something no else I have ever watched besides Jordan could dream of doing.

Yeah I am a grown man and I am able to form my opinion. However, my opinion is the same as the three sources, Kobe is around 12-13th alltime.

[IllegalD]

lol thats like saying the media is right every time it blames a white cop when a black thug gets killed.

You're a grown man, you should be able to form opinions of your own. I watched Kobe with my own two eyes against Dallas when he outscored my own team, and thats something no else I have ever watched besides Jordan could dream of doing.

Hey, you're allright, bro. :cheers:

Sorry for calling you a racist all those times. Heat of the moment.

[masonanddixon]

Yeah I am a grown man and I am able to form my opinion. However, my opinion is the same as the three sources, Kobe is around 12-13th alltime.

Yeah and thats perfectly fine. I have no problem with him being anywhere from #2-20th or so based on whoever is making the ranking. There is no point really to citing some media outlet that's obviously pandering as an omniscient being.

[inclinerator]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html


might wanna watch this buddy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdCu2C6_4iQ

basically says he passed kareem, magic and bird putting lebron at 3rd all time

[IllegalD]

might wanna watch this buddy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdCu2C6_4iQ

basically says he passed kareem, magic and bird putting lebron at 3rd all time


So when Bill Simmons says LeBron is on pace to become GOAT and #3 all time you take it as bible truth. But when he says Kobe is a Top 8 player of all time in his book, "LOL, NO ONE HAS 12thBE in their Top 10". And this with Simmons being one of the biggest Celtic-homers and Laker/Kobe haters ever... :lol