We all wanted to be in the NBA. Why didnt we work for it?

[Kblaze8855]

Only the best of the best make the league off straight god given talent. Majority of non bigmen make it by working....working harder than like 99% of the world. Ive only personally known 2 players to make the NBA. KG and Shammond Williams. I dont know KGs habits since he went to a rival highschool and I didnt watch him practice. But when Shammond Willims and I were in school that guy was insane in practices. And im talking from like age 14 when he was chubby and maybe 5'8''. I remember him at the local court. Old outside court. No matter how fast you got there after school in middle school he was there first. No matter how late you left he was still there. Only guys even close to working as hard were Shammonds brother and a kid named Merl Code who our school won a state title with. He very briefly made the Denver Nuggets but I dont think he ever played.

Almost always these super workers who make it big. You cant work yourself into being Magic or Jordan.

You can work yourself into being Steve Kerr.

Sam Jones might take 1500 bank shots a day.

Guys like Bird and Mullin always worked hard enough to make sure nobody on the team worked as hard. Bird once said he didnt know if anyone worked harder but if they did he wasnt aware of them. They would play horse in the olympics and the game would take an hour because no matter where they shot from nobody would miss(within reason. Im not talking Bird vs Jordan commercial type shots of course). Bird didnt learn to shoot with his left or from behind the backboard by chance. He worked on it a bit on the off chance hed need to. And got so good he played whole games left handed just for fun(He did that vs the Blazers once). Bill Walton said Bird would stand right under the basket and make shots. Take one step back and do the same. And just go back and back till he was as far away as hed ever need to be. Shoot for hours.

People often mention Dengs midrange shot. Well him and Ben Gordon have keys to the bulls practice courts and weightrooms. Live in the same apartment place and neither can leave home without the other seeing. One goes to practice the other leaes right then just to not be outworked. John Paxon has said no matter how early or late hes there he always hears someone on the court taking shots and its always....always...Ben or Deng.

Bill Bradley in college had to make about 145 shots in a row from various places before hed let himself go home. And that was after a day of practice. Hit 25 in a row from a number of spots. 15 in a row on moving shots. Bunch of hooks. If he missed the shot on 144 hed go back to zero and start over.

Barkley wasnt athletic till he made himself that way. He was slow and fat by his own admission. Went running all the time and jumping back and forth over a fence dozens of times a day. Thats how a guy shaped like a bumble bee was dunking all over everyone.

Pistol Pete had a ball 8 hours a day in the warm months and no less than 4 in the winter. As he said "You dont get her by wishing it kids". His father and him worked on the game and he dedicated himself from age 8 on up. This guy was literally shooting in bed. To perfect his motion he was taking shots in place with a ball before he went to sleep. Just shooting straight up and down over and over.

We love the game dont we? Do we just not love it enough? How much did you practice?

At my peak I was probably 16 taking bank shots at 2 am out on the courts after everyone left the neighborhood park. But when I was 16 I was also on the football team with an afterschool job and other things I just couldnt put to the side for basketball.

Didnt help that because I was 6'3'' 210 coach made me a 4. And no 6'3'' power forward is making the NBA. Truth be told I had a much better shot at the NFL. Impressed a college scout there to see a guy on the other team. But we all know it takes more than a "That kid is pretty good" from a scout to even make D1. Much less the NFL. But at least I could fool myself into thinking I had a shot there. NBA? Never really did. But maybe its just because I wouldnt work for it.

Not the way Bird did. Or Pistol Pete. Too many other things going on.

Its annoying to admit but when it comes down to it....I dont think most of us here are here because of a lack of talent. Most of us just never worked hard enough to develop it. Talent is sure an issue. But many people in the NBA probaly were born with no more than some of us.

But you take 2000 jumpers a day talent doesnt matter quite so much.....

[L.Kizzle]

Clyde Drexler hopped on one foot to school everyday. He hopped back on the opposite on the way home.

[Kblaze8855]

I never heard that. But it sounds like one of those crazy stories of what people do to make it.

[Da KO King]

I used to ball hard as hell. Got to school an hour early but would be a half hour late for my first class playing ball... then I discovered women.

My story is not an uncommon one. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

Because making the NBA is tough. Some people are still trying and havent made it. At some point in life you have to make a choice. Continue trying or plan for something where the odds arent stacked against you and swallow your pride and admit...you're not good enough to make the NBA.

[Kebab Stall]

Great thread. I've always wondered the same. Why do guys who love the sport so much not work hard to get to the top. Then there is the few guys that will do everything in their power to make sure that they become the best. I once heard that Magic would go to the shops and on the way there he would bounce the ball with his left hand then on the way back he'd bounce with his right hand. Those are things people don't really do now, they kinda just rely on their god given talent.

I always try an have a bball with me where ever I go, whether it be the shops, my bed or just sittin next to me while I type on the computer. But no matter what, I always try and have a bball present. When ever I get bored on the computer or of watching TV I will go and shoot a few hundred shots hoping I'll get better.

[StroShow4]

it would be ncie to say that hard work is all it takes, but seriously, it takes more. you have to get lucky on top of all the hard work. you have to end up in good situations where you will get recognized. it is so hard to make the nba hard work is not the only factor.

[Kblaze8855]

I used to ball hard as hell. Got to school an hour early but would be a half hour late for my first class playing ball... then I discovered women.

My story is not an uncommon one.

Yea....

When I was in school my first "real" girfriends parents worked at GE and didnt get off till late. Usually either 8pm or 11. I can go with her to an empty house or stay after school and take 1500 jumpers?

Im not ashamed of my decision but in retrospect maybe it wasnt right.

[Kblaze8855]

it would be ncie to say that hard work is all it takes, but seriously, it takes more.

Of course. But without the hard work the "more" part doesnt even matter.

The work is what everyone has to do. But most dont even do that part to find out if they can make it.

Just assume they cant and let it go.

B the numbers its likely that you cant. But most of the few hundred who did make it at some point had to say "**** it....im gonna try anyway".

I think that is very often the difference.

[GOBB]

Great thread. I've always wondered the same. Why do guys who love the sport so much not work hard to get to the top. Then there is the few guys that will do everything in their power to make sure that they become the best. I once heard that Magic would go to the shops and on the way there he would bounce the ball with his left hand then on the way back he'd bounce with his right hand. Those are things people don't really do now, they kinda just rely on their god given talent.

I always try an have a bball with me where ever I go, whether it be the shops, my bed or just sittin next to me while I type on the computer. But no matter what, I always try and have a bball present. When ever I get bored on the computer or of watching TV I will go and shoot a few hundred shots hoping I'll get better.


Magic's stories are cute and all....but his story isnt rare. Lots of kids have done the same if not more (diff stories on how they worked hard/tried to be the best) and failed. We dont hear about them because they didnt make it mostly due to not being blessed like Magic was. You're competiting with a million other kids and thier "Story"...only few make it.

But there are stories where fans who love the game didnt put in the hard work. So eh

[Da KO King]

Yea....

When I was in school my first "real" girfriends parents worked at GE and didnt get off till late. Usually either 8pm or 11. I can go with her to an empty house or stay after school and take 1500 jumpers?

Im not ashamed of my decision but in retrospect maybe it wasnt right.
I hear you. I faced that crossroads myself. Chics now or ******** later???

I decided a bird in the hand was better than waiting for bush. :oldlol:

[artificial]

One of my favorite quotes:

"Not everyone who do their best have success. But everyone who has success, without exception, have tried their best."


When I was in school my first "real" girfriends parents worked at GE and didnt get off till late. Usually either 8pm or 11. I can go with her to an empty house or stay after school and take 1500 jumpers?
I feel you. I'm doing an extra year of college for about the same reason.

[Kblaze8855]

You're competiting with a million other kids and thier "Story"...only few make it.

I actually think thats a good thing for anyone trying to make it to accept. Got a million kids out there you dont know and they want the same spot you do. The vast vast majority arent gonna go put in some Pistol Pete level work.

You have to basically give up every aspect of life aside from basketball to work as hard as some of those guys did.

[GOBB]

One of my favorite quotes:

"Not everyone who does their best has success. But everyone who has success, without exception, have tried their best."

Bill Walton had a quote on success and failure. I cant remember it.

[GOBB]

I actually think thats a good thing for anyone trying to make it to accept. Got a million kids out there you dont know and they want the same spot you do. The vast vast majority arent gonna go put in some Pistol Pete level work.

You have to basically give up every aspect of life aside from basketball to work as hard as some of those guys did.

Yeah making sacrifices is something that eliminates competition as well.

[Kblaze8855]

Not everyone who does their best has success. But everyone who has success, without exception, have tried their best.

The exception:

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/jerome_james-arton21028-240x240.jpg


Its good to be 7'1'' 280....

[Kebab Stall]

Magic's stories are cute and all....but his story isnt rare. Lots of kids have done the same if not more (diff stories on how they worked hard/tried to be the best) and failed. We dont hear about them because they didnt make it mostly due to not being blessed like Magic was. You're competiting with a million other kids and thier "Story"...only few make it.

But there are stories where fans who love the game didnt put in the hard work. So eh
Yeah I understand that the Magic part was a common thing that many young kids do. I've seen kids do it myself. But like you said, guys like Magic where just ridiculously gifted. And like another poster said it takes more than hard work.

[geeWiz15]

well not all of us have the capability, even if we worked harder than everyone in the world, to make the NBA. some of us are that physically lame.

court sense, quickness, coordination, height... so much missing.

I ran 2 miles every day for 2-3 months and still couldn't do it in 13:30. had to stop because I have a genetic something wrong with my legs that was flaring up and I had to ice daily. some of us just don't have it. hard work is what seperates HS varsity above average players from NBA scrubs perhaps, but in my case if I had worked my ASS off I still wouldn't have gotten any playing time in my varsity team's playoff games (7 man rotation) had I even made the team in the first place.

this is a perspective thing. I bet you had talent... so you have the mentality of "if I had just worked a little harder." well for me I did work hard, I worked my ass off and I was still useless when going against any kind of competition and am immeasurably better now that I'm tall and lazy and never practice.

[Kblaze8855]

How tall are you?

I think youre 17 so its probably too late anyway but.....

I kinda wonder what Steve Kerr did to become Steve Kerr. Im sure outside the NBA he looks a lot more well rounded as a scorer but in the league he stands still and takes a shot when hes open.

Feels like anyone should be able to do that if they truly dedicate themselves to it. Everything else he did was on a basic level. He worked hard but was just basic at other things.

[artificial]

I knew you would bring up someone. :D Yes, Jerome clearly isn't trying hard. And the kid had never played organized basketball until college.

But I'm sure it took more than being 7'1'' & 280 to lead the NCAA in bpg and dunking on a 11'4" basket when touring with the Harlem globetrotters. I bet he worked out as hell at some point.

The point of the quote is that as mentioned, it takes more than trying your best to get to the NBA. But not doing your best assures you won't even step on the start line.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea I know even the bad players in the NBA who show little passion or skills are crazy good. Lot of them just stop going hard once they make it.

[Da KO King]

Something that I think also needs to be mentioned here is a lot of people confuse doing lots of work with working effectively.

Shooting 1,000 spot-up jumpers at a leisurely pace and shooting 1,000 jumpers mixing up spot-up and off the bounce at game pace are not the same.

One helps you while the other is an extended session of mentally pleasuring yourself.

Edit - You guys are going a tad overboard with the censorship

[geeWiz15]

How tall are you?

I think youre 17 so its probably too late anyway but.....
6'0 with 6'5 wingspan


I kinda wonder what Steve Kerr did to become Steve Kerr. Im sure outside the NBA he looks a lot more well rounded as a scorer but in the league he stands still and takes a shot when hes open.

Feels like anyone should be able to do that if they truly dedicate themselves to it. Everything else he did was on a basic level. He worked hard but was just basic at other things.
everyone has limitations. no matter what Wilt and Shaq do their FT%s will never be above 50-60 because they don't have the coordination or touch, and can't. Steve Kerr worked his ass off there's no doubt but he was also born with coordination. you don't shoot the way Kerr shoots unless God gave you some steady ass hands.

plus you have to have the ability to concentrate and make your shots in game. and the speed to get open. and awareness in general. Steve Kerr by normal human being standards is stronger and faster than most people. I've seen pictures of you, you were probably really athletic and probably still are. 90% of the human race either aren't in shape or are in a neverending battle to get there but never will. Steve Kerr isn't some normal average Joe who worked his ass off, he was an athlete too. especially from my perspective.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea there is a difference. Ben Gordon has a paid rebounder and passer who goes with him to workouts and rebounds and hits him on the move for jumpers. Only needs him since nobody paid by the team is there the hours he is.

[Kblaze8855]

Kerr is just the standard "Just a shooter" example guy. Hes als otaller than average. But nothing he does seems totally outside the potential of normal guys. Its easy to assume you cant be as good a shooter as him and not try. I bet he didnt think he could be as good as he was before he tried either. I think accepting that you cant because it seems to hard is the reason so many never find out.


And for the record Wilts problem was mental. He shot 80% in practice and beat Calvin Murphy(who shot 95% one season) a few times. He had FT coaches watch him make nearly a 100 in a row then miss 15 that night. Team paid to send him to a sports psychiatrist. They worked out so much the doctor became a great shooter and he and Wilt used to knock them down by the dozens like nothing. Game starts? Mental block. Even Shaq shoots great(by his standards) when the game isnt being played.

[OneWay]

That's a great question. I had capability to succed in both soccer and basketball and I failed. Everyone say I was lazy. I think I was immature.

I'm now like 6'3" (in shoes), had great quickness, good jumping ability and pretty much a lot that you can ask from a PG.
From ballhandling to court vision to some IQ.
I however lacked in shooting and some more IQ but I never really worked on that.
I would always prefer to play some streetball instead of working on my shooting.

So while I loved the game I guess I never looked at it as work but I just wanted to have fun. Kind of like Smush Parker. And that's the wrong attidude, folks. But apparently I didn't love it enough to make work fun.

I don't know, I really don't know. If I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd take a different approach.
I'd train hard, listen to coaches and work on my flaws.

But I think I was too much of a hot head. Always thought I was right, always thought I knew better and always thought my way was the right way.

However, time flew by. Now I can still play pro ball but I don't see the point anymore. I had my chance and I think I lost it.
But what I find ironic is that instead of playing the game I spent so much time analyzing the game on the internet.

I was also into other things but I know a guy who had all the fun in the world outside of basketball yet he worked just enough to make pro bball.
And he worked quite a bit.

As for great players, they live and breathe basketball. I know a guy who hopefully will be an NBA star soon, I think he has the potential anyway and he's a basketball nut. It's hard to describe how much he loves basketball so I won't even get into it.

I guess basketball is like everything else. While it's a game, it's also work.
if you feel you can make it big which I always felt I could but never had organized myself, you need to work hard to achieve that goal because not many people are talented enough to get in just by talent.
If you don't work hard, you"ll go from a great talent to just average talent.
It happens. Kids are out there, they're crazy about basketball, they're improving each day.
It's up to you, really. Do you want to be the best or do you want to be one of the many.

I don't know really how to describe all those things but it's just that IT.
Some people have it, some don't. And that's why I have so much respect for people who do have it. I think I have it but just didn't know how to use it with all the stuff that I've been into.
I also liked to party yet those basketball nuts wouldn't even think about it, their mind would be on basketball.
In school, they'd hang around basketball people.
After school, they'd play some streetball. After streetball they'd go to practice. After practice they'd still stay and play. After that they'd talk basketball some more.

Guess I just never had all that and with all the stuff, puberty and everything you just lose focus I guess. But then again, maybe you don't love it enough. Maybe you don't want it enough.

But you feel you have that IT. And that's why one day you decide to take a different approach in life.

That's my story at least. Didn't love to train, didn't like coaches, had other things on my mind, became just average. Did it all to myself basically.

[GOBB]

you don't shoot the way Kerr shoots unless God gave you some steady ass hands.

GOD didnt. Its called practice, repetition. Kerr's been shooting since he was a punk kid.

[bomber]

Im about 5'10 165 (15 pounds heavier than about a year and a half ago from working out) white kid.

I worked my ass off at bball and had success (AAU national team, YBOA nat'l champ team) But I wasn't blessed with the NBA size or athletic ability. Even If my shot was perfect and I could handle the ball at an NBA level, I doubt I could realistically get my shot off and create etc at an NBA level.

It's not realistic to work for the NBA and let other aspects of your life fall down in the meanwhile.

[thenextgreatbigman]

I'm busting my ass right now just to make varsity. I talked to a few coaches and they said i could easily make D2, maybe D1 if i really go crazy.
I'm 6'5 and just turned 17. My biggest problem is that i started playing late, i didn't get to touch a basketball till i was 13. Before that i used to swim and that's all i did.

At this point i wake up at 7 on sundays and play till 12, then get home eat some and i'm back on the court at 5-6 till around 9. I got my diet in check and workout everyday.
During the summer i'll be back to playing 10 hours a day and even if everything goes great i'll end up being the 3rd big man coming off the bench, mostly because the two other bigs were on teams since the age of 5.
Having a pops who knew something about basketball would help, all my dad knows is soccer

[20 Dimes A Game]

I always think, there is someone out there working harder and getting better, so i work my butt off.

[Kblaze8855]

I'm now like 6'3" (in shoes), had great quickness, good jumping ability and pretty much a lot that you can ask from a PG.
From ballhandling to court vision to some IQ.
I however lacked in shooting and some more IQ but I never really worked on that.
I would always prefer to play some streetball instead of working on my shooting.

Same **** with me. I developed talent early. Had my ball with me everywhere I went.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2143/ball0gi.jpg

^
Took it on vacations down south. Literally everywhere. Thats the ball George Gervin signed for me and he took a jumper with it before a Bulls game in 86. Kept it forever. I still have it now for my son to bounce around. Played all day every day I could. If raining I threw my siblings out of the kitchen and worked on handle. And I was good then.

In church leagues dominating. And im talking Chicago leagues with hundreds and hundreds of kids. Id just count my numbers in my head and I was probably getting 30/20 a game in games that would end only 60-50 or something. Bigger than everyone as you can see:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5420/kidsa7.jpg

Parents thought it wasnt fair so my dad let me play wit hthe bigger kids. I was like 11 playing with an beating 14-15 yearolds. Best on our team even being younger than everyone.

Few years later I got to this point....

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1033/16bu9.png

^
15

I could dunk at 14 but nobody believed me because it was months after my first dunk before I got another one down clean. Id basically lay it in and hang on the rim but shortly into 15 I could put it off the backboard and dunk. Sloppy windmill. 360s. I was about 6'2''.

And around then I stopped working. I always worked out to be better than my friends. Once I was I didnt have real goals. My best friend and I got into football and thats where I got serious a bit. but honestly I think I did it because I was a natural on the field. I could be the best defensive player on the team(and I was the best on every team from 15-18) just off instinct and talent.

I didnt have to work at it. Id have to work to develop skills in basketball. I just wanted to have fun playing street ball like you mentioned. I was happy to play pickup and catch some lobs and dunk on people to show off for some girls or whatever.

And right then the world caught up to me. I went from the best no matter who I played to just being pretty good. Another year or two I was just athletic as hell and average. Had some good games. Even at 6'3'' I had a 17/16/8 block game. Guarded whoever the other teams best player was.

But football was where I shined and I just let basketball fall behind.

Pisses me off.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Bill Bradley in college had to make about 145 shots in a row from various places before hed let himself go home. And that was after a day of practice. Hit 25 in a row from a number of spots. 15 in a row on moving shots. Bunch of hooks. If he missed the shot on 144 hed go back to zero and start over.

No way I'm buying this one, unless the shots were all short range...hooks and bank shots, etc. Even then it's hard to believe. Just as an example, Ray Allen plays a game called "Plus 1, Minus 2" where you start at 0 and shoot elbow shots until you get to 10 points (win) or -10 (lose). You get 1 point for a make and lose 2 for a miss. If NBA players hit 100+ shots in a row, then a guy like Ray Allen playing "Plus 1, Minus 2" would be like Shaq playing horse from directly under the rim. Ridiculously easy, and essentially pointless. Basically, I don't believe anybody makes 145 shots in a row until I see it. I think it's a big fish story.

[El Barto]

I always knew that I'd be too short and not athletic enough to join even the high school basketball team, but everyone always told me that I could hit fade away jumpers like nothing and had decent range...but I was just too slow for everything else. When high school started I was about to try out for the football team but realized that my mom wouldn't have enough money for the equipment and everything, so I decided to just workout and practice on my own. I regreted not joining in my freshman or sophomore year.

Then my mom died at the end of my sophomore year and I lost all motivation to do anything in sports...been in a funk ever since, until now. But I haven't touched a basketball or football in 3 years.

Like what some of you guys said, you need to have the want to do it and heart to play the game or excel to the next level.

[bdreason]

Better chance of becoming a doctor, and more helpful to society.


You people who say working hard can get you into the NBA are crazy. It takes god-given talents, hard work, and luck.

Steve Kerr is an athelete. I could practice my whole life shooting 500 shots a day and would never be as good at shooting as Steve Kerr (my coordination isn't the best).

I'm a decent athelete. I train MMA 5 days a week, but there is no way I could have ever made the NBA with what I was born with. NO WAY.



ps- forgot to mention I'm 6'4" (175), played B-ball from 4th grade up through my 2nd year of college.

[Kblaze8855]

No way I'm buying this one, unless the shots were all short range...hooks and bank shots, etc. Even then it's hard to believe. Just as an example, Ray Allen plays a game called "Plus 1, Minus 2" where you start at 0 and shoot elbow shots until you get to 10 points (win) or -10 (lose). You get 1 point for a make and lose 2 for a miss. If NBA players hit 100+ shots in a row, then a guy like Ray Allen playing "Plus 1, Minus 2" would be like Shaq playing horse from directly under the rim. Ridiculously easy, and essentially pointless. Basically, I don't believe anybody makes 145 shots in a row until I see it. I think it's a big fish story.

Its not a rumor. Its from his own mouth today. I made this topic watching a CBS special that came on just before the Bulls game. Was them counting down the 10 greatest shooters in college history and talking about how they got that way. That was Bradleys drill. His teamamtes and coach were on there too. Think they all got together before the show and decided exactly what to lie about and how?

[Kblaze8855]

You people who say working hard can get you into the NBA are crazy. It takes god-given talents, hard work, and luck.

Steve Kerr is an athelete. I could practice my whole life shooting 500 shots a day and would never be as good at shooting as Steve Kerr (my coordination isn't the best).

Its easier to say its impossible than to take a few thousand jumpers a day and find out.

Plenty of people have built themselves into machines through sheer will. Guysl ike Herschel Walker



I've read that one thing that you had to do to build yourself up was an incredible amount of push-ups and wind sprints. I mean, give us an idea of the kinds of things you had to do to get to where you wanted to be.

Herschel Walker: I didn't grow up with a lot of money. My high school didn't have a lot of money to afford a lot of the expensive weights. You know all this stuff. They used that as an excuse. I started doing push-ups and sit-ups during commercials as I was watching TV. And started doing about, sometimes 2,000 push-ups, 3,000 sit-ups, 1500 pull-ups, 1000 dips, or different things like that. I started creating different hand positions for all that, and I learned that could work you out.

He was a fat kid losing races to his big sister. And he built himself into a godly running back.

Some of it is the potential your genes give you. But nobody would look at a fat kid and assume he could be this:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2804/wal0018atg4.gif


You go all out...true dedication...never know where you end up.

But 99.9% of people will assume they cant reach the goal so they wont even try.

I bet you arent the least athletic guy who ever made the NBA.

Im not calling it all a work issue. Just saying most never find out because they wont work to begin with.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Its not a rumor. Its from his own mouth today. I made this topic watching a CBS special that came on just before the Bulls game. Was them counting down the 10 greatest shooters in college history and talking about how they got that way. That was Bradleys drill. His teamamtes and coach were on there too. Think they all got together before the show and decided exactly what to lie about and how?

I will assume it was exaggerated, but not entirely false. That's what I'm saying.

[Kblaze8855]

Were talking about one of the best shooters ever doing a drill he did every day in the 60s. No 3 point line. No reason for him to be taking long shots. Id like to see a guy like Arenas do that drill. I wouldnt bet against him finishing.

[OneWay]

Same **** with me. I developed talent early. Had my ball with me everywhere I went.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2143/ball0gi.jpg

^
Took it on vacations down south. Literally everywhere. Thats the ball George Gervin signed for me and he took a jumper with it before a Bulls game in 86. Kept it forever. I still have it now for my son to bounce around. Played all day every day I could. If raining I threw my siblings out of the kitchen and worked on handle. And I was good then.

In church leagues dominating. And im talking Chicago leagues with hundreds and hundreds of kids. Id just count my numbers in my head and I was probably getting 30/20 a game in games that would end only 60-50 or something. Bigger than everyone as you can see:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5420/kidsa7.jpg

Parents thought it wasnt fair so my dad let me play wit hthe bigger kids. I was like 11 playing with an beating 14-15 yearolds. Best on our team even being younger than everyone.

Few years later I got to this point....

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1033/16bu9.png

^
15

I could dunk at 14 but nobody believed me because it was months after my first dunk before I got another one down clean. Id basically lay it in and hang on the rim but shortly into 15 I could put it off the backboard and dunk. Sloppy windmill. 360s. I was about 6'2''.

And around then I stopped working. I always worked out to be better than my friends. Once I was I didnt have real goals. My best friend and I got into football and thats where I got serious a bit. but honestly I think I did it because I was a natural on the field. I could be the best defensive player on the team(and I was the best on every team from 15-18) just off instinct and talent.

I didnt have to work at it. Id have to work to develop skills in basketball. I just wanted to have fun playing street ball like you mentioned. I was happy to play pickup and catch some lobs and dunk on people to show off for some girls or whatever.

And right then the world caught up to me. I went from the best no matter who I played to just being pretty good. Another year or two I was just athletic as hell and average. Had some good games. Even at 6'3'' I had a 17/16/8 block game. Guarded whoever the other teams best player was.

But football was where I shined and I just let basketball fall behind.

Pisses me off.

Yeah, I feel you on that one as well.

From the looks of it, I'm not the athlete that you are (not as big) but there's less competition in Europe so I easily could've made it.

What pisses me off is that I"ll never know how good I could've been.
When my 2 teammates had tryouts for big teams I was posting here because I wasn't even going to practices.

What pisses me off is that it's a do or die situation at that teen age and your whole mind completely changes 10 times a day.

You don't know what you want. You don't know what's the smart thing to do. You know nothing. And you think you know everything.

I think at that age you either need to be really mature or have some guidance. I basically never accepted the guidance from anyone and never had respect for authority people.

It's funny because there was a coach who saw a great deal of talent in me and you could sense that he liked me more than anyone else but what did I do? Nothing. Slacked in practices. Didn't even go to practices.

Even at young age you need to have some sense of professionalism. I didn't have it.

F it. Time blows by. Other kids become good. Sooner than you know you start losing your God given gifts and you turn into an average person.

It's so ironic and kind of sad when you think about it...but you can never know what would've happened if you were smart and in hindsight things look so much easier which only adds to the irony of the situation.

Nothing you can do really. It's what it is now.

A typical Al Bundy story. Lotta folks have had great gifts but wasted it.
We're not the only ones.

However, you need to learn from your mistakes. That's my inspiration I guess. Not to let anything like that happen to me again. Not to be so unprofessional about anything.

Is it the lack of love or lack of maturity? Or lack of anything else? Hard to say. Really hard.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Great thread. You also forgot how Pistol's father used to have him dribble out the passanger seat window of a moving car to get better at his handle.

[geeWiz15]

how many NBA players do you think have actually maximized their potential?

[Kblaze8855]

JJ Reddick. Steve Kerr. Nash maybe. Spud Webb was about as good as he could be. Same for Muggsy. But I guess they could always be better shooters.

[Carbine]

Bird was probably the best at maximizing everything he had.

[Samurai Swoosh]

So in conclusion, white guys usually work the hardest?!?! j/k

[Kblaze8855]

More accurate people with limited physical ability usually have to work hardest. So mostly the slow and short.

[StroShow4]

More accurate people with limited physical ability usually have to work hardest. So mostly the slow and short.

there is no one in the nba who is both slow and short, only slow or short, therefore i guess i am screwed :oldlol:

[dirkdiggler41]

I'm busting my ass right now just to make varsity. I talked to a few coaches and they said i could easily make D2, maybe D1 if i really go crazy.
I'm 6'5 and just turned 17. My biggest problem is that i started playing late, i didn't get to touch a basketball till i was 13. Before that i used to swim and that's all i did.

At this point i wake up at 7 on sundays and play till 12, then get home eat some and i'm back on the court at 5-6 till around 9. I got my diet in check and workout everyday.
During the summer i'll be back to playing 10 hours a day and even if everything goes great i'll end up being the 3rd big man coming off the bench, mostly because the two other bigs were on teams since the age of 5.
Having a pops who knew something about basketball would help, all my dad knows is soccer

Dirk and Duncan did not start before they where around 12-13. Same goes for AI

[StroShow4]

Dirk and Duncan did not start before they where around 12-13. Same goes for AI

dirk and duncan are 7 feet tall. AI is a freak of nature.

[OneWay]

John Starks started at 17 IIRC. Technically, it's still possible but the odds are huge.

[Jailblazers7]

Hard work doesnt always garuntee you success like that and if you get there you arent garunteed to succedd. If im not mistaken Sebastian Telfair would wake up at like 6 and run steps, run on the beach, do drills, and play til extremely late yet he has turned out too well.

[AceVenturaPetDet]

I'm only 6 foot eleven inches, I could 've been in the NBA cuz I got game but its against my religion, I'm part buddhist and part Jehovah's witness.:(

[Jailblazers7]

I wish i had that type of dedication and work ethic but i can never sustain it. I will go a month where i work hard everyday but then i will go the next 2 months doing next to nothing. If i did sustain it i would still be happy to go over to Europe and play because not everyone is cut out for the NBA.

[KWALI]

It's not all about working hard interms of the NBA their are also politics and other **** involved to even get seen...I am telling you right no I knew a couple of guys in Jersey that are better were better and bigger than Jason Collins right now who got black listed by Bobby Hurley's dad at like 15 yrs old and they never got another chance...then they got injuries....and boom no NBA. Also my cousin and his friend been touring intenational leagues for years and never gotten through...I use to go hard with them and they surpassed me they've fainted and **** becuz they went to hard.

And it's not only the choice of do I have something better to do now it's am I willing to work for just a chance? For me I know I was physically able to be a Darell Armstrong type player...when I play with semi pro players now that's the type of role I play...but I hate playin that way....I like playing with guys around my size so I can be more physical around big guys I am reduced to just being a quick guy.

So knowing I'd never be dominant and only be able to play pro (meaning overseas or NBDL not even NBA really) as a defensive gnat bothering people basketball became a hobby.

[Kblaze8855]

Bobby Hurleys dad? Mind explaining that?

[Jailblazers7]

Bobby Hurleys dad? Mind explaining that?

Isnt his dad the coach at St. Benedicts Prep in NJ so maybe he could put i bad word in about him to scouts and coaches or something.

[dirkdiggler41]

dirk and duncan are 7 feet tall. AI is a freak of nature.

They would still be in the nba if they where 6,5

[ronron15]

i started ballin on a serious level kind of late... i just played it for fun in my childhood... n also did not join leagues and stuff n played with mostly the same people

[Jailblazers7]

They would still be in the nba if they where 6,5

What makes you assume that?

[0ne50]

I thought I wanted the NFL actually. But I was a nuckle head in high school. Too smart for my own good. Looking back, I probably should have chosen boxing or baseball. Boxing? because I know I have the physical tools to be a wealthy boxer. Baseball? Well baseball could use more African American athletes maybe I am not the best baseball player but I wished me and my boys would've played more baseball when we were children. Still looking back with the way the NBA is going style wise I think if you are Afican American like me you have a lot of competition coming up. You'd have to really stand out to be in the NBa. I gew yp with guys like Keith Booth, Donta Bright Mark Karcher, Kevin Braswell, Bootsy Thorton, and Antonio Freeman (football) those guys were all stood out more in the community hype wise

[Da KO King]

Bobby Hurleys dad? Mind explaining that?
Hurley Sr is the Tony Soprano of Jersey hoops. He writes you off and your done in Jerz.

[Darius]

Good thread but I disagree with the premise.

Unless you have the basic physical tools, you aren't going to make the NBA.

A very small % of the population has those tools.

Even your one example (Steve Kerr as the everyman) isn't really pertinent. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination and manual dexterity are genetic as well.

Likewise some kid could do math problems all his life but that doesn't mean he will ever become a top mathmatician.

And there's another reason why people don't try to make it playing basketball: it is pretty much an all or nothing skill.

If you fail at becoming atop mathmatician you can still use your tool effectively to make a living. If you fail at becoming an NBA (or top level Euro) player... you done ****ed up.

[Soundwave]

Process of elimination really.

Hundreds of thousands of kids play basketball during their middle school/high school years, only 300 make it to the NBA.

There's just not enough spots, those 300 go to the best of the best, however, some spots are taken by guys who are physical freaks of nature (7+ footers). So really for "normal" people without the height, you're actually looking at maybe 30-50 spots.

[geeWiz15]

Good thread but I disagree with the premise.

Unless you have the basic physical tools, you aren't going to make the NBA.

A very small % of the population has those tools.

Even your one example (Steve Kerr as the everyman) isn't really pertinent. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination and manual dexterity are genetic as well.

Likewise some kid could do math problems all his life but that doesn't mean he will ever become a top mathmatician.

And there's another reason why people don't try to make it playing basketball: it is pretty much an all or nothing skill.

If you fail at becoming atop mathmatician you can still use your tool effectively to make a living. If you fail at becoming an NBA (or top level Euro) player... you done ****ed up.
[jon stewart]naaaiiiled iit[/jon stewart]

[dejordan]

kblaze watched the same "top ten shooters in ncaa history" show i did this afternoon!

i agree with the posters who have said that all the practice in the world won't help if you don't have the basic tools to improve. my uncle played against nba talent when he was in high school, but he never made it to the league because he had a tweener build - 6' 4" but not quick enough to defend guards and too short to defend forwards.

[G-train]

".....practice"
- Allen Iverson

[Raindrops]

For me it was just a lack of focus on one thing. Once you get a job in high school to help pay for college, you don't have as much free time and your game goes away. The summer before my junior year in high school I started working to get money for college, and by the time basketball practice came around my skills had eroded pretty significantly. Once that happened I stopped playing so much until I went to college and had access to a rec center where I can play pickup games any time I want.

By the way I am new here, but I have been reading on this site for a decent amount of time. So hi to everybody.

[Kblaze8855]

Even your one example (Steve Kerr as the everyman) isn't really pertinent. Muscle memory, hand-eye coordination and manual dexterity are genetic as well.

Likewise some kid could do math problems all his life but that doesn't mean he will ever become a top mathmatician.

If I saw someone shoot like they do and never develop a shot id believe they couldnt.

Id love to hear a "He shot 1200 jumpers a day for 5 years....yet still couldnt make them" story.

Even guys like Ben Wallace can shoot pretty well in the right situation. Hes been shown knocking down 5-6 threes in a row in pregame. And he didnt start really working on his shot till he was already in the L and he sure doesnt do it to the extent someone expected to shoot would.

There is a mental thing with free throws for some people(Bruce bowen for one). But I dont buy a guy shooting as much as a guy like Bird and never becoming a good shooter.

I cant call it impossible. Id just like to see it.

[barne100]

i shot every day after school and still about once a week get out and strictly shoot free throws and jump shots for a few hours.

so... tell me... why am i not in the nba?

cause my shot still isnt ****.
and i still suck.

and since 9th grade until now going into my 3rd year in college my shot didnt improve. in fact it may have gotten worse.

stupid quotes and slogans dont make someone succesful.

[KWALI]

Hurley Sr is the Tony Soprano of Jersey hoops. He writes you off and your done in Jerz.

Basically this is correct...Bobby Hurley Senior(I used the Son becuz you'd recognize who I was talking about universally) was, I am sure is, the St Anthony's Academy Basketball Coach...

Now I was in H.S in the nineties...So b4 Mount Zion and Oak HIll Academy and just B4 people went really big from H.S to the NBA regularly...St Anthony's was the school to go to...They were independant so they didn't have to play in teh Parochial League they picked their own usually high profile opponents and followed their ow rules recruiting and such....coming from H/.S in Canada and Jamaica I didn't know recruiting started that early

This guy had endorsement deals everythign...and he controlled the tri-state scene pretty much for a couple of years...I mean there are other guys like that Sonny guy in Philly and the guy who started five Star and those Adidas camps.... but Hurley could get you seen by any school and taken seriously or he could make you invisible..

Basically I think Terry Dehere Jerry Walker and his Sons plus like Roderick Rhodes..those guys made him huge...he hasn't had anyone that I know of since then.

[Kblaze8855]

i shot every day after school and still about once a week get out and strictly shoot free throws and jump shots for a few hours.

so... tell me... why am i not in the nba?

cause my shot still isnt ****.
and i still suck.

and since 9th grade until now going into my 3rd year in college my shot didnt improve. in fact it may have gotten worse.

I used to be playing for hours a day and shooting at night if nobody showed up. Im not talking about that. Im talking serious dedication. I know most people wont dedicate themselves to anything to that degree.

I cant see anyone who grows to maybe....6'1''...gettting the lifetime Pistol Pete treatment and grow up to suck.

I may have to force my son to be great just to prove it.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Were talking about one of the best shooters ever doing a drill he did every day in the 60s. No 3 point line. No reason for him to be taking long shots. Id like to see a guy like Arenas do that drill. I wouldnt bet against him finishing.

That's a good point, and also lends itself to what I said originally, which is that if someone were going to make 145 shots in a row they would have to all be short range. That's incredible, but at least believable.

[elementally morale]

Before reading the thread here is my answer to the original question:

1) I wasn't talented enough (too slow for a PG and too short for a SG by NBA standards)
2) I didn't want it THAT much (I had other interests, too)
3) Euros were not at all common when I played in (and for) my country (until 1994, basically)
4) I always lacked that kind of street hunger

Now I'll read some of the answers you had.

[geeWiz15]

Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability.
--Cicero

[Kblaze8855]

“Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working.”

--some guy who was too busy working to give his name

[20 Dimes A Game]

I'm only 13, i could still make it.

[statman32]

My biggest problem was that I hated practicing by myself. Loved to play games and practice with my older brother but when I had to go out and practice by myself, I lost focus because there was no competition.

I was still pretty damn good until I hit high school and got into other ****. I always played in leagues with kids older than me and played and started on AAU teams with a bunch of kids now playing D1 ball.

I'm disappointed I didn't work harder and stick with basketball but realistically I wouldn't have gone far. Add in the fact that I'm only 5"10, not much athleticism, small hands and the odds were stacked against me.

[bigkingsfan]

Because I got my shot swatted by a female and didn't make my middle school team. :oldlol: I was a mean flag football player though.

[lovethetriangle]

Played tennis 6 hours a day everyday from the age of 8 till 17. I was offered a scholarship at temple university for tennis when i was 17, severely tore ligaments in my wrist and i couldn't play for a year with the threat of it lingering even after it cures. That was the exact time I discovered sex, drugs, and alcohol. Not good. Partied all the way till the end of college as I just turned into a good player with wasted talent.

Now been running a business for 2 years and its boring and unfulfilling as I know I could've been travelling the world playing tennis. Decided to give it one last shot. I'm 23, out of shape, but still playing ok. Hopefully it works out. My current sched for the last 5 months have been 6am to 9am tennis/workout, 10am to 6pm work, 6pm to 9pm tennis/workout. Loving every second of it. Spoken to several coaches and they give me 100 to 1 since i'm old (tennis years) and wasted the last 5 years getting out of shape and ruining my lungs. But anything's possible. Lets see.

[Kblaze8855]

Played tennis 6 hours a day everyday from the age of 8 till 17. I was offered a scholarship at temple university for tennis when i was 17, severely tore ligaments in my wrist and i couldn't play for a year with the threat of it lingering even after it cures. That was the exact time I discovered sex, drugs, and alcohol. Not good. Partied all the way till the end of college as I just turned into a good player with wasted talent.

Now been running a business for 2 years and its boring and unfulfilling as I know I could've been travelling the world playing tennis. Decided to give it one last shot. I'm 23, out of shape, but still playing ok. Hopefully it works out. My current sched for the last 5 months have been 6am to 9am tennis/workout, 10am to 6pm work, 6pm to 9pm tennis/workout. Loving every second of it. Spoken to several coaches and they give me 100 to 1 since i'm old (tennis years) and wasted the last 5 years getting out of shape and ruining my lungs. But anything's possible. Lets see.

Good to hear. Ive hit the point(and I think most eventually hit it) where id rather have applied myself and found I didnt have what it takes. The not knowing kills me. Better to know you tried and failed than to assume you will fail and end up wondering if you were right.

And really...worst case? You get in great shape for nothing. As worst cases go thats pretty good.

Good luck.

[lovethetriangle]

Good to hear. Ive hit the point(and I think most eventually hit it) where id rather have applied myself and found I didnt have what it takes. The not knowing kills me. Better to know you tried and failed than to assume you will fail and end up wondering if you were right.

And really...worst case? You get in great shape for nothing. As worst cases go thats pretty good.

Good luck.


Thanks man. I never thought of that as a worst case and it does make me feel better. The hardest thing to let go of is girls, seriously, its tough. 23, single and doing pretty well, that's hard to give up. And you do have to give em up for a while if you really want to make it work.

[reppy]

Back when I was a gym/basketball rat, I used to see Dan Dickau damn near every single time I went. If I went in the morning, he was there. If I went in the evening (sometimes I'd go twice a day), he was there. Dribbling multiple balls at once, shooting jumpers. Sometimes have someone passing shots back to him, sometimes just shooting on his own.

If he wasn't shooting or running, he was lifting weights.

And he's basically a 3rd tier PG in the league, and he put in a ton of work.

[AtTheDriveIn]

I'm only 13, i could still make it.

Ok I'm 16 years old now. There are many many guys at our school who are 13 and say they'll be playing in the NBA.

Our school has this program where they carry a team of 13,14 and 15 years olds to all U16 tournaments and a team of 16 and 17 year olds to the U20 tournaments. Kind of a potential thing, prepping us for the seriousness of the U20 comps.

I captained the U16 team last year (moved up this year) and all, every single one of my players told me they could make it to the NBA. Our best player (co-captain) was also the laziest player on the team, on tournaments around, he would rarely every played the easy games, faking an injury just so he wouldn't have to waste his energy. He said he would make it because of natural talent. Our 12th man that year though he could make it.

Our team wasn't filled with superstars either, we finished 12th in the country or something. Even the winners in Australia only had ONE guy who looked like he could play in the NBL. NBL is a worse version of Euroleague.

The point I'm trying to make is that kids get cocky really quickly when they see they're the best on their team, and then some other kids are really ignorant and think they can make it because they had 1 3pter in the whole season and pride themselves on it.

I've forgotten the stat, but something like 1 in 40,000 (i am honestly not sure, it might be 4,000) makes it to the NBA. 1 in 40/4,000.

Ask yourself what makes you better then every single one of them kids out there? Go watch some of the national games at your age. I remember reading about that Ricky Rubio kid who's my age and was putting up 52 points, 22 rebounds and 20 assists in the final of an INTERNATIONAL championship. Think about what that means. I'm putting up less then 15ppg in our DISTRICT league.

Being the best player on your team doesn't mean you're the best player in your league, or anywhere. It just means you're better then 8 to 12 guys that are on your team. That you know. You know all their weaknesses, makes the job seem a lot less easy doesn't it?

[Gad23]

no one from asia has made it to the nba without being tall. maybe except yuta tabuse. and we asians are mostly really short. Like im 6'3 maybe 6'4 in shoes and im one of the tallest players everytime i play. I play forward/center due to my height.tallest dude here is like 6'6 and hes like the most dominating player. i started when i was 18 and straight away was forced to play inside.

in my country, the culture too is very different. Sports is scorned at as a living. Noone except maybe football players, swimmers and racket sports dudes do sport as a living. Everyone here wants to be a doctor or a lawyer etc. Very competitive to the point when studies take up most of our time.

for me my goal is to get into my national team. i know i will never ever make it to the nba, maybe at most d2 ncaa if i worked my ass off 24 hours a day. Cos im slow, skinny and started too late. Lack of proper coaching too. our basketball league here is just amateur. now im trying to be focused to get into my national team but its hard when u are like the 12th man on ur school team. im turning 20 soon btw so less than 2 years played. And also lack of time, i gotta work and study at the same time. Lots of my frens are like 'wtf are u do playing basketball'? I don't have much of a life in the past 2 years. school then training then working whenever im free. but i simply love the game although i suck at it.

[Lebron23]

I also played in our University and at 6'3" I am playing the PF position but those players in the NBA that have my height are playing the Guard Spot.

In the Philippines their is never a great player who made it in the NBA not to say the Philippines are not good in basketball it is like some of the players are very undersize to play their position you can be playing Center here if you stood 6'7".

Currently our national team is doing well in Asia after a 2 years suspension. They already defeat Division I NCAA Teams that 10 years ago you would not think they can beat them but some of our players

I think the difference why it is very difficult to play in the NBA cause it is loaded with so much talent and some of the B Class player are Superstars in their own country.


I put up 12.3 PPG and 11.2 RPG but that is not enough because someone in other part of the world that are better than me.

[Gad23]

at least u guys have a pro league. one of the best players here was invited to play in the pba but he declined. but things are improving. one dude here was one of the standouts at some nike asia basketball camp despite being 5'8.

[lovethetriangle]

I also played in our University and at 6'3" I am playing the PF position but those players in the NBA that have my height are playing the Guard Spot.

In the Philippines their is never a great player who made it in the NBA not to say the Philippines are not good in basketball it is like some of the players are very undersize to play their position you can be playing Center here if you stood 6'7".

Currently our national team is doing well in Asia after a 2 years suspension. They already defeat Division I NCAA Teams that 10 years ago you would not think they can beat them but some of our players

I think the difference why it is very difficult to play in the NBA cause it is loaded with so much talent and some of the B Class player are Superstars in their own country.


I put up 12.3 PPG and 11.2 RPG but that is not enough because someone in other part of the world that are better than me.


What league u play in? University? I live in the Philippines as well.

[Lebron23]

What league u play in? University? I live in the Philippines as well.


Just our College Department in UST, i try out to the Main roster but i get cut out at the end of the try out cause their are many players like Jerby Cruz playing the same spot at me.

[elementally morale]

So. Here are the reasons.

1) As I said earlier I lacked some natural ability. I'm 6'2 in shoes and developed early. I was the same height at the age of 13-14. At the time it was natural to think I'll play SG or SF and even PF wasn't out of the question since it's not that uncommon for a 13-year-old to grow another 6-7 inches. Well, I didn't. I wasn't fast enough for a PG. If you want to be real quick, you have to work on it from the age of 6. At the time I was playing waterpolo (it's the national sport in my country) and only got into basketball at the age of 9-10. Had I grown another 6-7 inches or had I started to work on my quickness earlier I could have become a PG. I ended up playing an undersized SG. I was OK, made it to the 1st division in my country, was among the 20-25 best in my age category between ages 14-17. Still not good enough.

2) Lack of effort. I didn't try it that much. Had practices 6 days a week. All in all I think I played bball 3-4 hours a day on average between ages 12-20. But I had other interests, too. Women was one. Studying (don't laugh) was another. I was better at science than I was in sports. That kinda decided it.

3) Upbringing. I was raised in an ex-communist country. When I was a child even saying the word 'professional sports' was blasphemism. So there were no kids dreaming of beocming 'spoiled professional athletes' as our leaders put it. You wanted to be an athlete to become 'a better member of society' and to 'honor your country' and not for personal accolades. When all these things changed (1989) I was 15 already and had other things on my mind, too. Mostly science related. (Something I was also not THAT much talented at anyway.) It was a different culture here.

4) A story. We had a few world class swimmers in my county. Many of them. One of the most well known (Krisztina Egerszegi) was a gold medalist several times. She was a national hero. She had a friend who worked just as hard. She was half a second behing Egerszegi and her time would have also been a world record and would have worth a gold medal at the Olympics. Had she gotten there. But she never got there because of Egerszegi.

That just put it in perspective. Both of them put in all the work they could. Both of them were better than everyone else. One is remembered and a hero. The other is unknown but still didn't do anything in her life other than swim 8 hours a day. I'm not sure it was worth it for the non-Egerszegi.

And you just don't know which one you are: The hero or the nobody until all is said and done. And that's sometimes too late.

Will this do for an explanation?

[humbug]

It's all about taking risks. Sacrificing a significant portion of your life for the chance at a cut-throat business like professional sports is a huge risk, which is why so many athletes are either from very rich backgrounds (with money to fall back on) or very poor backgrounds (with nothing to lose). The majority of people look for stability and security in their adult lives, which is somewhat guaranteed if you take the "normal" road in life, taking a 9-to-5 job, etc.

Plus, I think size is the next biggest issue. Majority of people aren't 6'5, 220 lbs. That's something that you can't work on.

[AtTheDriveIn]

3) Upbringing. I was raised in an ex-communist country.



What country if you don't mind me asking. I was raised all around the world. Lived 6 and visited 23 countries by last count.

[DetroitBadBoys]

To make the NBA, I think it takes more than just effort and hardwork. You need skill to start off with, and depending on how much skill you have, you have to work yourself to some extent. MJ didn't become MJ by playing 20 hours of bball everyday, even if I played that much I still wouldn't be that good, cos i wasn't born with the talent MJ had.

And some people find it hard to motivate themselves to practise hours a day. I never seem to be able to stick to a training plan, I might practise alot for a week, then I really can't be bothered to practise so much. But my friend, he had girl-problems for a few months, and during those few months he would run down to the courts after school and play basketball. And during those months he became one of the best players in the school.

[elementally morale]

What country if you don't mind me asking. I was raised all around the world. Lived 6 and visited 23 countries by last count.

Hungary.

[AtTheDriveIn]

Hungary.

Lived there. :D

[elementally morale]

Lived there. :D

Then you know. It's not like the US one bit and it was even less like the US 20 years ago. We didn't have baskeball courts in the parks. It was actually hard to find a place where one could play. There is also a lot less money involved and back then there was no money involved at all. And so on. On top of that we are as white as it gets without very good natural athleticism. There are very few exceptions. I was not one.

[AtTheDriveIn]

Then you know. It's not like the US one bit and it was even less like the US 20 years ago. We didn't have baskeball courts in the parks. It was actually hard to find a place where one could play. There is also a lot less money involved and back then there was no money involved at all. And so on. On top of that we are as white as it gets without very good natural athleticism. There are very few exceptions. I was not one.

Most of the talent in Europe is wasted on Soccer though. It's quite tough to find guys who are good at basketball. C

oming from Bosnia, my father was friends with Radko Varda (not sure of the spelling). Who was in the Pistons a few years back. He trained a load (according to my dad, he trained about 6-8 hours a day, his parents were fairly wealthy), and barley made an impact in the NBA.

Other then that, I remember going to Europe last year, I saw ONE basketball court in one of the neighbourhoods i grew up in. one! from about 6-10pm (sun goes down very late in Europe over the summer), that was packed with about 35-40 people playing teams in's and out's. Before 6 it was too hot to get any training done anyway.

In other words. In some of the poorer European countries, unless you have money, you really don't have much of a chance for any training. You just have to naturally be good at basketball.

[Heretik32]

Then you know. It's not like the US one bit and it was even less like the US 20 years ago. We didn't have baskeball courts in the parks. It was actually hard to find a place where one could play. There is also a lot less money involved and back then there was no money involved at all. And so on. On top of that we are as white as it gets without very good natural athleticism. There are very few exceptions. I was not one.

We used to go on holiday to Hungary some ten years ago. I remember looking for streetball courts. Forget it.

[OneWay]

What are you talking about? There are basketball courts everywhere.

I now live in the crappiest little town in the world and we still have like 15 basketball courts here or something.

[elementally morale]

In other words. In some of the poorer European countries, unless you have money, you really don't have much of a chance for any training. You just have to naturally be good at basketball.

You could play organized basketball though. I had a teammate for years who later on spent some years in the NBA. Kornel David, on the Bulls. He was a scrub. Not a total useless scrub but still a scrub. Well, this one guy started to play basketball at the age of 16. He was 2 years older than me and at the time I was 16-17 he was no better than me. Taller, different position but not any better. He made it to the NBA because he was a lot taller. Became a scrub, came back to Europe and went on to play in many countries winning some championships.

So I'd say had I been somewhat taller I could have become the 10th man on a roster. Didn't really have any chance to become even a backup, let alone starter or 'good player'. I can still kick anyone's asss playing at the park though. :oldlol:

[AtTheDriveIn]

What are you talking about? There are basketball courts everywhere.

I now live in the crappiest little town in the world and we still have like 15 basketball courts here or something.

Lol you live in Bosnia?

Where abouts?

[OneWay]

Ok I'm 16 years old now. There are many many guys at our school who are 13 and say they'll be playing in the NBA.

Our school has this program where they carry a team of 13,14 and 15 years olds to all U16 tournaments and a team of 16 and 17 year olds to the U20 tournaments. Kind of a potential thing, prepping us for the seriousness of the U20 comps.

I captained the U16 team last year (moved up this year) and all, every single one of my players told me they could make it to the NBA. Our best player (co-captain) was also the laziest player on the team, on tournaments around, he would rarely every played the easy games, faking an injury just so he wouldn't have to waste his energy. He said he would make it because of natural talent. Our 12th man that year though he could make it.

Our team wasn't filled with superstars either, we finished 12th in the country or something. Even the winners in Australia only had ONE guy who looked like he could play in the NBL. NBL is a worse version of Euroleague.

The point I'm trying to make is that kids get cocky really quickly when they see they're the best on their team, and then some other kids are really ignorant and think they can make it because they had 1 3pter in the whole season and pride themselves on it.

I've forgotten the stat, but something like 1 in 40,000 (i am honestly not sure, it might be 4,000) makes it to the NBA. 1 in 40/4,000.

Ask yourself what makes you better then every single one of them kids out there? Go watch some of the national games at your age. I remember reading about that Ricky Rubio kid who's my age and was putting up 52 points, 22 rebounds and 20 assists in the final of an INTERNATIONAL championship. Think about what that means. I'm putting up less then 15ppg in our DISTRICT league.

Being the best player on your team doesn't mean you're the best player in your league, or anywhere. It just means you're better then 8 to 12 guys that are on your team. That you know. You know all their weaknesses, makes the job seem a lot less easy doesn't it?

What kind of money is it in your Australian league?

I think money in Europe is good only if you play for a big club or in Spain, Greece or Italy. Pretty much..

[elementally morale]

We used to go on holiday to Hungary some ten years ago. I remember looking for streetball courts. Forget it.

You won't find any unless you really know your way around a city. There are some but hard to find. 20 years ago there were none. Croatia is different. You'll find many streetball courts there.

[OneWay]

Lol you live in Bosnia?

Where abouts?

Sorry, I thought you were talking about region in general.

[AtTheDriveIn]

What kind of money is it in your Australian league?

I think money in Europe is good only if you play for a big club or in Spain, Greece or Italy. Pretty much..

$300,000 a year if you're lucky.

Our top Rugby League (biggest sport in Aus) players get only $800,000 at most per year.

Guys before played for free.

[OneWay]

$300,000 a year if you're lucky.

Our top Rugby League (biggest sport in Aus) players get only $800,000 at most per year.

Guys before played for free.

Wow boy, $300,000? That's a lot of cash.
Is that like an average salary or do only top players get that kind of cash?

That's comparable to soccer salaries here

Now excuse me while I go practice as I've already made a plan to move to Australia. :oldlol:

Dayum, you folks make some nice cash of basketball.

[AtTheDriveIn]

Wow boy, $300,000? That's a lot of cash.
Is that like an average salary or do only top players get that kind of cash?

That's comparable to soccer salaries here

Now excuse me while I go practice as I've already made a plan to move to Australia. :oldlol:

Dayum, you folks make some nice cash of basketball.

Sarcasm? lol

$300,000 is top players.

Average players would get maybe half that and less. I know some guys who play in the league near where I live (QABL) that work a job as well as play basketball. Cash is **** here.

[OneWay]

Half of that is still a lot, $150,000. Much more than what most people make.
Less, let's assume $80,000+...still a lot.

And from what I know, competition isn't that good, not as good as in Europe. Not nearly as good as in the USA.

That QABL league is not a top league, right?

And what, is your top league as good as some mediocre leagues in Europe?

IDK, looks pretty good to me.

[AtTheDriveIn]

Half of that is still a lot, $150,000. Much more than what most people make.
Less, let's assume $80,000+...still a lot.

And from what I know, competition isn't that good, not as good as in Europe. Not nearly as good as in the USA.

That QABL league is not a top league, right?

And what, is your top league as good as some mediocre leagues in Europe?

IDK, looks pretty good to me.

I'm talking about Australian money by the way. $300,000AU is like $200,000US.

The league is bad, but not that bad. I think the best team would be fairly average to maybe good if they got some Europeans on it. They play 48mins and NBA court size too. In Europe the court is smaller and less time.

QABL is like the NBDL. Kind of an upbringing for young players who are serious about trying out for the NBL teams. There's also the AIS which is a school, they only accept about 10 or so basketballers per year, and maybe 5 at most go to the NBL from there. No money involved.

The players are almost as big as NBA players just the talent is a lot worse. It's about the same heights as NBA players.


Average League Height - 198.4cm
Average League Weight - 96.3kg
Average League Age - 27.0 years

All NBA standards, just the quality of play is much worse. By the way, how much is the pay in Europe for a good player.

[OneWay]

Money in Europe is so-so. It all depands.
I don't know how much you get paid in most countries but from what I've heard, money is generally good in Spain, Greece and Italy. Not sure about other rich countries but I guess it depands on many things.

For average ballers, I don't think money is any good. If we're talking about Euroleague teams here...well, they earn A LOT.

[bence23]

**** i should go to europe. I'd be the Mexican Steve Kerr:rockon:

[RoseCity07]

I would no doubt bet my life I could have made it to the NBA if I were 6'-5". I have no fear on the court, I have the drive, I respond well to the hardest challenges. I play better when someone trash talks, and I talk trash. I have perfect form, but get blocked by taller players because I'm only 5'-9". Height is so crucial.

That's why I wonder how in the hell Earl Boykins made it. I see kids today at 6'2 that play like centers because so many shorter players are quicker and better. When in reality at their height they should be crossing people over like crazy and driving into the lane.

[Gad23]

I'm talking about Australian money by the way. $300,000AU is like $200,000US.

The league is bad, but not that bad. I think the best team would be fairly average to maybe good if they got some Europeans on it. They play 48mins and NBA court size too. In Europe the court is smaller and less time.

QABL is like the NBDL. Kind of an upbringing for young players who are serious about trying out for the NBL teams. There's also the AIS which is a school, they only accept about 10 or so basketballers per year, and maybe 5 at most go to the NBL from there. No money involved.

The players are almost as big as NBA players just the talent is a lot worse. It's about the same heights as NBA players.



All NBA standards, just the quality of play is much worse. By the way, how much is the pay in Europe for a good player.

my club teammate recently played in the 2007 NBL season for the Singapore Slingers. Cant say how much he got but its lesser than 200,000. he's like one of the best players in Singapore; 6'7 center but over there hes a forward. lol. still gets 10th man playing time. The quality can't be that bad. They are always saying its top 5 in the world. Best in Asis at least. Produced a few NBA players. I have a friend whos 5'11 and is blistering fast and can do 360 dunks easily but has difficulty getting in. Thats very uncommon here. lol.

[WoGiTaLiA1]

For me it was in year 8(12-13) when I worked out how genetics worked. I'd always been the best player on every team I'd played on and it was no different that year but I learnt that genetics had me ****ed, asbolute best case scenario I would end up being a 6'4 guy over in Australia. Reality was that my mum's genes were much more dominant in me than dads and that 6' was a realistic hope. A 6'4 PG has a chance, but 6' on the other side of the world is a lost cause.

Basically by the end of that year I hadnt even had a growth spurt realised that reality said no to me being a basketballer. Ended up 5'10 and a half. No chance in other words.

On top of that, I discovered other sports and moved houses from one where I had my own half court set up to not having one. The dream died when I moved again to a neighbourhood where I didnt have one of my own and the aboriginals would rip any public court rims down within 3 days of them being up. Stopped playing all together by year 10 to focus on Aussie Rules and Cricket, though not as serious about either as I was about basketball.

It's actually amazing how much you will lose in just a couple of months, I went from being automatic from the foul line in with either hand to not being able to hit 20 10 footers in a row. You lose all feel for handling the ball to the point where I got told to "look up when dribbling" in a pickup game a few years later for the first time since I was 7.

Basically, I learnt about reality through basketball. Sometimes it wont matter how much you want something. Just like that 3' kid cant ride on a ride with a 4' minimum limit, a 5'10 guy in Australia cant play in the NBA and until someone proves me otherwise, I'm going to stand by that. So far Australia has produced 6 NBA players that I can think of. Longley was 7'3 and average at best. Bogut is 7' and again, average at best, Anstey was 7'1 and out of the league in a year, Schenscher is 7'1 and as far as I care, out of the league. Gaze and Heal are the two best domestic players in Australian history, both 6'4 SGs who were as good as useless in the NBA. Quite simply the odds were against me if I grew to 6'6, nevermind the realistic 6'.

[WoGiTaLiA1]

The players are almost as big as NBA players just the talent is a lot worse. It's about the same heights as NBA players.

The heights are similar but the athletiscm is on a different level. Guys that you would consider amongst the slowest in the NBA would be amongst the quickest in the NBL, especially the big guys. NBL is like watching the WNBA to be honest. It is so slow its boring. To put it in perspective, most of the imports in the league are Div II and Div III players and a lot arent even stand outs. There are a couple of Div I guys around but not many and none of the elite ones.

Europe is certainly at a higher level and the money is much bigger(some guys are making millions). I'd have said the Russian league was certainly a better asian league(even if they compete in Europe, Russia is still Asian), Japan has a case and both the Korean and Chinese leagues are closing the gap rapidly if they havent already. Australia just doesnt care enough about basketball anymore at one point it had a strong influence over here.

[wang4three]

Limited athletic ability and soccer was my first passion growing up. Being a 6'1" shooting guard would've been tough, but in all honesty, in my athletic peak, I wasn't nearly as fast, strong, as the walk-ons of the guys on the Illini basketball team-who I've played against.

But I'm making up for it. Just graduated yesterday and am trying to find a job in the NBA for awhile. I just can't help it since Hubie always talks about it like a fraternity and I just want to be part of it.

[Gad23]

are u serious? good lucky. btw i totally agree with WoGiTaLiA1. the NBL is slow paced. and there are tons of turnovers. There are a few good players thought. There's this 6 foot sg mike helms who averaged like 20+ points in d1 or d2 can remember. He's explosive but probably average by NBA standards. lol.

[JtotheIzzo]

good thread, and I agree with a lot of what people say, but here is my two cents. I have been paid to play the game overseas (had a good enough college career and nice enough size to draw interest), so I know what it is like first hand to be really good but not NBA level good.

To get to the L a lot of things have to happen, and if one link falls off the chain your chances of getting there drop significantly, because I can tell you first hand there are a ton of 6'4" to 6'8" muthafalkas all over the globe who can flat out ball ( I played at 6'5" 235lbs).

first of all there is the 'it' factor

-everyone who has had even the slightest sniff the NBA has 'it'. The ones who make it have a lot of other things going for them as well.

-we go through 'it periods' at different times in our life and if we exploit 'it' things can happen. For me it was going from a grade ten 5'9" PG to a grade eleven 6'4" forward. That growth spurt put my small man skills in a big body and got me dunking hard on people. People took notice, I started getting plays called for me regularly colleges started writing. other guys I played with in college had 'it' but didn't realize till they hit a big shot in a game or crushed someone repeatedly in a drill in practice, immediately their confidence shot up and they were a different player.

-desire was another factor heavily discussed and we all know that, but I think desire can be covered up by size and athleticism. A few of the other imports I balled with overseas were NBA ready physically and had talent oozing out of every orafice, but they were just plain lazy, waltzed through practice (they knew they'd play 40 minutes a game) and hit the clubs everynight.

-Shooting alone isn't good enough. I hear Steve Kerr mentioned a lot, but Steve was a stud in college and scored in a lot of different ways, he made his career longer by shooting, but he has a great bball IQ and can put the ball on the floor.

-Coachability is huge too, because if you are a borderline player, but are willing to listen and execute in practice you will be chosen as 11th or 12th man over someone more talented, a lot of undeserving players talentwise have made the NBA this way. And it is part of the reason there are as many white players as there are in the league (I know that sounds racist, but falk it, I am keepin it real, on average white guys will buy in and do as their told more often, and for end of the bench fodder the last thing a team needs is someone constantly beyotchin about playing time).

-good competition early is also key. You learn more in your first college practice than you do in your entire HS career. Ball with the best players in your city everytime you can, the speed, the knowledge you can get from their game is invaluable.

-win everytime. I played one on one versus Ricky Pierce one time at a basketball camp when he was retired, dude was lookin fat, I was in peak form, I figured I'd wax him and be able to brag about it. Dude owned me, took his fat old arse, backed me down (dude was one of the most solidly balanced ballers Ihave ever seen) stuck it on me spun and faded and drove me nuts with endless twine. He wasn't gonna lose despite being out of shape. You keep beating people then all of a sudden you real good.


Bottom line is you wont make the NBA, but if you can get good enough you can play in college (a great experience) and you might even get to travel and collect pay checks while playing. Not a bad trade off.

[JalenRawley]

This is way more information that anyone would ever care to read, but **** it.. It made the first half of my workday breeze by pretty quickly. :) I didn't enjoy playing basketball until after I was out of high school. I never played on my junior high or high school teams, because growing up I used to play baseball and I absolutely LOVED playing baseball. Never liked watching it much, but loved to play it. My family were all basketball nuts, my cousins all played at Valparaiso and Purdue, my uncle lived next door to the Drew family (Homer was/is the coach at Valpo, Bryce played in the NBA for one hot minute, thanks to help from the aforementioned Steve Kerr), etc.

But when I got into Little League, I got my first taste of politics and nepotism. When you're a kid in baseball, you of course want to do the exciting positions. First base, shortstop, pitching, etc. I wanted to be an infielder, and felt most comfortable at third base, but liked second base too. But, the coach had his son on his team, and the coach's son got to play first base, even though we had several players who really wanted and worked hard to be there. And of course, the coach's son's friends all got to be the infielders, and people like me ended up lost in the shuffle in the outfield, where we were rarely utilized and never worked with. I stopped trying to work on my game, and soon didn't even have the interest in playing at all. Halfway through my first year in the league I was just going through the motions. I never played past the B league, and by my last year I couldn't care less about playing another organized sport again as long as I lived.

In junior high, I ended up finding bicycle freestyling, skateboarding and music. Soon, the only team sports I was involved in were on the Nintendo. I still enjoyed watching games, I just had no desire to play. In high school, I ended up going to a private school for a couple years and they were all basketball crazy. It was a smaller school, and they didn't even have a football or baseball program. We had basketball, soccer, and tennis. Soccer bored the piss out of me, tennis was a chick sport (that's right Agassi, a chick sport), so I ended up playing a lot of basketball. I really had no desire to work very hard at it, but I still had a few minor skills from playing pickup games. There's something about Indiana, maybe it's in the corn, but jumpers just come naturally to us. I never played for the team, but I'd practice with the team. Some of the players on the team wanted me to join, but I was nowhere near good enough to be more than the 9th or 10th man off the bench and after spending my baseball years picking dandelions in the outfield, I didn't feel like spending my basketball years picking splinters out of my ass.

To pass the time in the summer, we'd play pickup ball at the local park, and it ended up being a nightly affair starting right around 7pm and ending somewhere around 2-3am. A lot of us got pretty good, and soon afterwards I ended up working at a fitness center and befriending a few of the personal trainers there and they helped me work up a nice regimen for lifting and training. We had a basketball court upstairs, and after being there for a while, I had keys the building. I worked afternoons, and we closed at 9pm, but we worked until midnight. We usually finished our work by 10:30 and played ball until midnight. Everyone else would leave, I would stay until at least 3am every night, working on my game on the court, or downstairs in the weight room/pool/etc. Occasionally I would invite the rest of my night owl friends up to the center after midnight, and we'd had some raging all-night games. If there weren't events planned for the weekend, I'd go open up the building and we'd play until we passed out. At one point, we started getting enough people up there that we stopped playing full court and had two half-court 5 on 5 games running, and we'd have mini-tournaments. We were just starting to get organized to having stable teams instead of pickup games when things just kinda fell apart over time. The only NBA-level player who ever ran with us got cut in training camp with the Jazz a couple years ago, Jermaine Boyett. I ended up moving to Indianapolis and playing with some ex-college players. Small time though, nobody major. Players from Rose-Hulman, Ball State and Indiana State.

I never had any aspirations of the NBA because I was never under any illusions that I would ever be able to afford to go to college. Had I had a different experience with Little League, I might have had a better point of view towards organized sports, and might have put forth a little more effort. But even if I was the next greatest baseball hero, I never would

[GothamKnight]

GOD didnt. Its called practice, repetition. Kerr's been shooting since he was a punk kid.

I disagree. I don't play or practice much, but I could always shoot. I have no motivation and hate running so that didn't help as far as getting into good enough shape to play competitively.

[INDI]

I ran 2 miles every day for 2-3 months and still couldn't do it in 13:30. had to stop because I have a genetic something wrong with my legs that was flaring up and I had to ice daily. some of us just don't have it. hard work is what seperates HS varsity above average players from NBA scrubs perhaps, but in my case if I had worked my ASS off I still wouldn't have gotten any playing time in my varsity team's playoff games (7 man rotation) had I even made the team in the first place.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Had a kid at my high school named Rolando back in 94, this dude had no skills whatsoever, he was a powerforward only because he was wide, he had no hops no shot no handle no speed, he had some power but nothing special, the only thing this dude had was heart and determination. Often in the summer time if you woke up early enough you would catch him doing suicides on the court while carrying two suitcases full with clothes, everyone often laughed at him but he was so focused he didnt care. He made the highschool varsity team but many attributed to the fact that the coach loved the effort he put forth in his tryouts and figured he would be someone good for his starters to practice against (he barely ever got off the bench in gametime besides blowouts). Rolando was a funny cat, and though he never did make the NBA the last I heard of him was that he was a starting point guard for a team overseas making close to a six figure salary.

[Kblaze8855]

a 5'10 guy in Australia cant play in the NBA and until someone proves me otherwise, I'm going to stand by that.

Shane Heal is listed at 6' and 180. Played in the NBA. "Cant" is the most overused word when it comes to what people think they can do.

Cant is almost always used in place of "Unlikely". Just because basketball is at best the 3rd or 4th biggest sport there doesnt mean nobody can become good enough there to make it at 5'10''. Just means the vast majority wouldnt even try and added to the already tough odds it might make it feel like a "cant" but it isnt.

People more often than not use cant not after being shown then cant but as a reason not to try in the first place.

[Howard5Dirk41]

i wanted to be in mlb not the nba sorry

[Ballastic]

Started hanging out with the wrong crowd, started smoking and drinking and experimented with a few recreational drugs.

[deion2123]

Im not in the NBA because Im not a 6'7" black guy who can run and jump

[BigTicket]

Personally I'm just not very good, never tried to be either, play ball maybe once a month with a couple of friends and we all suck, bricked layups and short jumpers everywhere. It's fun though, and I enjoy watching it on TV. But I never tried to make it big or dreamt of doing so.
Ofcourse things are different since I'm danish, noone plays basketball here, our national team would get killed by any D1 school.

[RainierBeachPoet]

i dont know the details of his life, but muggsy bogues must have an amazing story

to be 5'3", play on that awesome dunbar team with reggie williams, david wingate and reggie lewis, play at wake forrest and dominate the game as a guard then to last so many years in the nba-- not as a bench player but a starter

how much work and hours of practice did muggs put in...

[mhg88]

Ever seen an asthmatic 5'7" white guy in the NBA? Didn't think so

[geeWiz15]

"Every life form seems to strive to its maximum except human beings. How tall will a tree grow? As tall as it possibly can. Human beings, on the other hand, have been given the dignity of choice. You can choose to be all or you can choose to be less. Why not stretch up to the full measure of the challenge and see what all you can do?"
--Jim Rohn

[Kblaze8855]

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

[Soundwave]

Well lets just use simple mathematics.

Say there's 100,000 worldwide kids who play basketball and maybe even think of playing pro or pretend to be an NBA star on their drive way.

There are 300 roster spots in the NBA.

That's a 0.003% chance, without factoring in things like other people being bigger than you, faster than you, etc.

Work ethic can mean a lot, but this is simply a case of an occupation which is extremely limited. Imagine there were only 300 positions in the world for a doctor for instance. If that were the case there would be a lot of people who are pretty good doctors right now who put in a lot of hard work that would not make the cut.

To make the NBA you have to be the best of the best of the best ... either that or be a freakish physical specimen that can serve as a big man (that means actually being able to move/run/be agile).

[Aussie Outcast]

Sarcasm? lol

$300,000 is top players.

Average players would get maybe half that and less. I know some guys who play in the league near where I live (QABL) that work a job as well as play basketball. Cash is **** here.

I play in QABL where abouts is the nearest team to you?

[AtTheDriveIn]

I play in QABL where abouts is the nearest team to you?

Logan Thunder, where do you play.

PM me sometime when your team plays around here.

[Orlando Magic]

I didn't work for it because I didn't care about playing in a structured (team) environment. I tried out once for my Jr. High team, made the team, totally zoned out during practice and didn't pay attention at all. I didn't like it. I never tried out for the team again even though coaches begged me throughout the rest of Jr. High & HS.

I liked getting out there on the court and playing "free". Playing on a team was never my thing.

There's a strong possibility I would have ended up playing at least D1 ball in college had I actually worked for it. But I didn't... one bit... so nothing ever happened. I was whipping up on people like Reggie Nelson & Leonard Weaver way back when we were teenagers & little kids. Of course, they both went to the NFL... not the NBA... but they were both really good athletes as kids... still are. Hell, Nelson went in the first round of the NFL draft this year as most of you know.

http://img0716.paintedover.com/uploads/thumbs/0716/reg.jpg (http://paintedover.com/uploads/show.php?loc=0716&f=reg.jpg)

http://img0716.paintedover.com/uploads/thumbs/0716/reg2.jpg (http://paintedover.com/uploads/show.php?loc=0716&f=reg2.jpg)

lol @ what he listed for awards... talk about foreshadowing... last time I saw him was what at least 3-4+ years ago at a movie theater he walked up to me and said hey... must have remembered all the beatings he took in basketball.

He's really the only "famous" person I've ever known at all. That's his "signature" in the second picture. Not sure why he signed it Reggie Miller, but whatever... oh yeah, that's my 6th grade yearbook. Haha.

[Richie2k6]

I think a lot of people growing up wanted to be in the NBA, just nobody made the effort. And a lot of people can't picture themselves there, with all the hype about only 1 in whatever actually make it. All the pressure and having to be better than everyone else and getting scouted and training for hours everyday was just too much for people to bear. As kids, we all wanted to be in the NBA. We all wanted to be Jordan hitting that free-throw line jumper against the Jazz. We all wanted to be Bird stealing that inbounds pass and dishing it off for an easy layup. We all wanted to be Wilt scoring 100 points. But no one took it seriously enough, and when we finally hit the age where it's time to decide what you want to do with your life, NBA basketball just isn't realistic for most people.

[Budadiiii]

One of the best threads I've ever had the pleasure to read

[RoundMoundOfReb]

i sort of disagree with the notion that we all could've been steve kerr if we worked hard enough.

[sejoon101]

i sort of disagree with the notion that we all could've been steve kerr if we worked hard enough.

Pretty sure OP's message is, most of the NBA players love the game enough to give their lives for the game. And anything can be achieved, even by the average Joe, if you put effort into something for a long period of time and stick with it.

I am a 5 ft 10 Korean. I played ball every damn day for about 6 years. I sure as hell was never going to make it to the NBA... But who knows, if I tried hard as these guys...?

[inclinerator]

alot of those stories are greatly exaggerated

[InfiniteBaskets]

Dave Hopla, NBA shooting coach of the Knicks, Wizards, and I believe some other teams, is a good example of someone who works their ass off everyday even at age 50, and wasn't good enough to make the NBA when he was in his prime.

I think he's 5'10, probably doesn't have the same ups or quickness as the typical NBA athlete. He does have a record of making 1,234 free throws in a row, and has held world records for three point shooting... But all of that is done with him being unguarded. You throw an NBA level type defender and he's not going to get open even if they double off him because he's so much slower and smaller. Plus on the other end, it's an easy back down for a bucket.

He did end up playing pro bball overseas so it did pay off to some degree. But there's only so much you can do when competing against elite athletes.

[Fresh Kid]

I definitely could of made it, I was like an Iverson type player but smaller version with a 3 point shot and creative offensive moves, believe it or not my potential was that high, even today I still could make at least d-league if i worked out everyday on condition, exercising everyday and if i had a trainer and shooting coach. I just gaved up in high school, i was failing in my first couple years of high skool mainly cuz i always cutting class all tha time and tried to fit in with tha kool kids. Then other interests got in way especially after I had my ankle injury at 17, that took a toll on me as well. Its okay tho, took me a while just to get over it, but I found something even better to accomplish in tha near future, so im kool.

[Miller for 3]

i sort of disagree with the notion that we all could've been steve kerr if we worked hard enough.

Ya its kind of insulting. Kerr was a scrub, if I wanted to I could be better than Jordan. But I have a life, so sorry

[Real Men Wear Green]

I tried going pro out of HS, unfortunately I couldn't get a first round guarantee. Apparently 5'10 forwards (3/4 combo! VERSATILITY) are a rarity in the NBA. And I had SG-caliber ballhandling. Everyone doesn't need to shoot threes. It's prejudice. Whatever, I was better at football anyway. But for the record, NBA, you missed out on my final growth spurt. Not that I would bother. I skipped college to post on Insidehoops full-time.

[CanYouDigIt]

I tried going pro out of HS, unfortunately I couldn't get a first round guarantee. Apparently 5'10 forwards (3/4 combo! VERSATILITY) are a rarity in the NBA. And I had SG-caliber ballhandling. Everyone doesn't need to shoot threes. It's prejudice. Whatever, I was better at football anyway. But for the record, NBA, you missed out on my final growth spurt. Not that I would bother. I skipped college to post on Insidehoops full-time.


:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[gts]

I was told 5'11'' white guys with crappy vertical who can't go to their left, or right were not a hot commodity in the NBA. Still waiting for the NBA to institute designated free throw shooter rule for my big break

[tmacattack33]

Only the best of the best make the league off straight god given talent. Majority of non bigmen make it by working....working harder than like 99% of the world. Ive only personally known 2 players to make the NBA. KG and Shammond Williams. I dont know KGs habits since he went to a rival highschool and I didnt watch him practice. But when Shammond Willims and I were in school that guy was insane in practices. And im talking from like age 14 when he was chubby and maybe 5'8''. I remember him at the local court. Old outside court. No matter how fast you got there after school in middle school he was there first. No matter how late you left he was still there. Only guys even close to working as hard were Shammonds brother and a kid named Merl Code who our school won a state title with. He very briefly made the Denver Nuggets but I dont think he ever played.

Almost always these super workers who make it big. You cant work yourself into being Magic or Jordan.

You can work yourself into being Steve Kerr.

Sam Jones might take 1500 bank shots a day.

Guys like Bird and Mullin always worked hard enough to make sure nobody on the team worked as hard. Bird once said he didnt know if anyone worked harder but if they did he wasnt aware of them. They would play horse in the olympics and the game would take an hour because no matter where they shot from nobody would miss(within reason. Im not talking Bird vs Jordan commercial type shots of course). Bird didnt learn to shoot with his left or from behind the backboard by chance. He worked on it a bit on the off chance hed need to. And got so good he played whole games left handed just for fun(He did that vs the Blazers once). Bill Walton said Bird would stand right under the basket and make shots. Take one step back and do the same. And just go back and back till he was as far away as hed ever need to be. Shoot for hours.

People often mention Dengs midrange shot. Well him and Ben Gordon have keys to the bulls practice courts and weightrooms. Live in the same apartment place and neither can leave home without the other seeing. One goes to practice the other leaes right then just to not be outworked. John Paxon has said no matter how early or late hes there he always hears someone on the court taking shots and its always....always...Ben or Deng.

Bill Bradley in college had to make about 145 shots in a row from various places before hed let himself go home. And that was after a day of practice. Hit 25 in a row from a number of spots. 15 in a row on moving shots. Bunch of hooks. If he missed the shot on 144 hed go back to zero and start over.

Barkley wasnt athletic till he made himself that way. He was slow and fat by his own admission. Went running all the time and jumping back and forth over a fence dozens of times a day. Thats how a guy shaped like a bumble bee was dunking all over everyone.

Pistol Pete had a ball 8 hours a day in the warm months and no less than 4 in the winter. As he said "You dont get her by wishing it kids". His father and him worked on the game and he dedicated himself from age 8 on up. This guy was literally shooting in bed. To perfect his motion he was taking shots in place with a ball before he went to sleep. Just shooting straight up and down over and over.

We love the game dont we? Do we just not love it enough? How much did you practice?

At my peak I was probably 16 taking bank shots at 2 am out on the courts after everyone left the neighborhood park. But when I was 16 I was also on the football team with an afterschool job and other things I just couldnt put to the side for basketball.

Didnt help that because I was 6'3'' 210 coach made me a 4. And no 6'3'' power forward is making the NBA. Truth be told I had a much better shot at the NFL. Impressed a college scout there to see a guy on the other team. But we all know it takes more than a "That kid is pretty good" from a scout to even make D1. Much less the NFL. But at least I could fool myself into thinking I had a shot there. NBA? Never really did. But maybe its just because I wouldnt work for it.

Not the way Bird did. Or Pistol Pete. Too many other things going on.

Its annoying to admit but when it comes down to it....I dont think most of us here are here because of a lack of talent. Most of us just never worked hard enough to develop it. Talent is sure an issue. But many people in the NBA probaly were born with no more than some of us.

But you take 2000 jumpers a day talent doesnt matter quite so much.....

That's cute, but it's complete BS.

I, like most people, am 5'9 or under. Our chances of making the NBA are almost 0 based exclusively on this fact.

[HurricaneKid]

The basic premise of this thread is absurd. Sure everyone that plays in the NBA has dedicated themselves to the game and becoming the player they are. But they also had biological advantages that no one (or at least very few) here had.

I played against an NBA All-Star when I was at my peak (while he was in college). It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I immediately recognized it was never going to happen.

[IGOTGAME]

this is silly. no matter how hard 99% of people work they couldn't make it to the NBA.

[Fresh Kid]

this is silly. no matter how hard 99% of people work they couldn't make it to the NBA.
you sir iz a straight up damn pessimist:coleman:

[kshutts1]

Edited previous post. It was too long and not really on topic.

I did work hard enough for one year. My junior year in HS. Ironically, also doubles as the lone year I didn't play organized ball.

But every other year I didn't care enough. One year, when I was 10, I played the entire year, including the season, with my off hand to try to develop that. But that is the only real "I'm trying to go pro" moment I had.

[jbryan1984]

I'm 5'10.
I'm white.
I partied in hs, not dedicated myself to the game.
My small town team sucked anyway.
It wasn't meant to be

However, LeBron went to school half hour up the road, same graduating year, 2003. Dammit mom and dad, why couldn't you have sent me to St. Vincant-St. Mary?

[IGOTGAME]

you sir iz a straight up damn pessimist:coleman:

I pushed myself playing basketball. I played high level high school/AAU and small college. I know my limitations. I could have played overseas in some domestic league but the NBA was beyond my talent. No level of work ethic(2000 makes a day, training etc.) would change that. some people just dont get it.

I would have dumped on 97-98% of the people in the world. Still doesn't make you even close to an NBA player.

This also presupposes that working extremely hard isn't a talent itself.

[Mr Exlax]

I had a shitty attitude and was a horrible teammate. Sore loser and sore winner. Couple that with limited ability for my height and an unwillingness to go to practice on the weekends and skipped a ton of practices after school to get up on them hoes.

[JMT]

The basic premise of this thread is absurd. Sure everyone that plays in the NBA has dedicated themselves to the game and becoming the player they are. But they also had biological advantages that no one (or at least very few) here had.

I played against an NBA All-Star when I was at my peak (while he was in college). It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I immediately recognized it was never going to happen.

Exactly. The weeding out process doesn't begin at NBA level. It begins in 4th and 5th grade. As the wheat is separated from the chaff sure, some guys with talent fall by the wayside due to lack of interest, injury, success in other sports/pursuits, etc.

But "Talent" is the operative word. You can work all day on a skill set and, if you don't have a decent level of natural ability, your ceiling is still going to limited. Some people can pick up a guitar and instinctively play with little instruction. Others can play a lifetime and still never reach a level of proficiency.

The problem with this assumption and the board in general is the immature notion that "I could've made it". No, you probably couldn't have. And to think that you "could've" based off success in jr high or low-end high school ball... or worse, pickup ball... just shows that you don't live in reality.

Steve Kerr is used as an example. If 99.8% of ISH were to, in their prime, have faced Steve Kerr up to a few years after his retirement, he would have destroyed you. Not just because he was a great shooter, but because he'd be a better ball handler than you'd ever seen in person, would be physically and mentally tougher than you, and would basically run your ass ragged. He would kill you without ever taking a 3. Seriously, a guy like that would clown you. There's that much difference between who the kids on here call "scrubs" and what you perceive is your level of talent. The worst NBA player would be the best player that ever walked into your gym. Every time. By a lot.

I'm 6'8 and played D1 ball a hundred years ago. Really good player. Dominated at a high-end high school level. Played Rucker Park, Sonny Hill league in Philly, Fon du Lac Rec in Houston. Lots of high caliber opposition. Didn't get there without out-working everyone in my immediate peer group and having size/talent.athletic ability. But it still didn't take a genius to see the difference between me and the
guys that were going to be successful at the next level. And trust me, I was the guy who walked into your pickup game and decided how it was going to go. It's just a whole different level.

[niko]

Me, i had no choice. i could have the greatest work ethic in the history of mankind and my 5'5'' small frame lungs don't work well body wasn't going to work. I think all things considered i did pretty well sports wise. But you figure things out fast, and you go more toward where your talents lie.

[Fresh Kid]

Me, i had no choice. i could have the greatest work ethic in the history of mankind and my 5'5'' small frame lungs don't work well body wasn't going to work. I think all things considered i did pretty well sports wise. But you figure things out fast, and you go more toward where your talents lie.
I understand that being short definitely lowers your confidence, but sometimes you just have to believe in yourself that you can do it, and push yourself real hard everyday to get your body fit for tha league. I know I messed up but I truly believe I would of made it if I tried my absolute best. If damn earl boykins and mugsy can make it then anybody can. This goes for anything too, no fear plus faith equals great chance.

[IGOTGAME]

I understand that being short definitely lowers your confidence, but sometimes you just have to believe in yourself that you can do it, and push yourself real hard everyday to get your body fit for tha league. I know I messed up but I truly believe I would of made it if I tried my absolute best. If damn earl boykins and mugsy can make it then anybody can. This goes for anything too, no fear plus faith equals great chance.

impressive flame.

[BoutPractice]

Excellent thread.

Personally I don't think I ever truly "wanted" to be in the NBA. I just enjoyed playing. When I was 14-15 had I turned that switch on (had I had that switch to turn on in the first place) it just might've worked out... I was 6'5, 6'6 with very long arms, a jumpshot, a variety of post moves with soft touch, and an automatic fadeaway. My coach told me I could be a pro. I worked hard out of pure love for the game, but not as hard as someone who actually wants to be a pro... another problem was that I played quite passive on offense. "If I had your body and skills I would dominate", I heard that quite a bit. But I didn't feel like dominating. On defense I gave my all but on offense I was content playing within the flow, getting myself good looks, passing the ball to the open teammate. Every once in a while I had the sort of 1 on 1 play where my coach and teammates would tell me "why the **** don't you do that every play". I would suddenly (usually out of desperation because there was no one to pass to and no time on the shot clock) cross a guard over, spin and finish, or come up with a dream shake. I'd do it once, twice... then I'd go back to passing it out and waiting for that open midrange J. I'd stay under the radar, help the team win.

The point is, not everyone wants it. I loved the game but I never even considered trying to make a career out of it. It didn't seem to me the sort of thing you could do for a career anyway, the idea seemed very remote to me.

[lakerspng]

I love the game, had really great skills (ball handling, range, fadeaway, finishing) and was very athletic even though I'm only 6' tall (I could throw a tomahawk down in my 20s)... but I had a career (and still do) that I was more passionate about. If I'd dedicated myself to being just one thing; being a basketball player from an early age, who knows... but I never came close to the level of single-minded focus it takes to be a pro player. Had way too many other interests that pulled at me.

[magnax1]

I didn't really want to be in there honestly. I mean, it would've been cool, but even when I was playing like 4 hours a day almost every day in highschool I never thought about playing in the NBA. Hell, I never thought about trying out for the Varsity team after the one year I played. Now that I haven't touched a bball consistently for like 8 years, I never really think about anything like that.

[Shade8780]

What about Steve Nash though? What God-given talents does he have. He's that good from pure hard work.

[pauk]

Great thread & question Kblaze.

What happened to me is in short words.... bad luck, war, immigration, injury, age and finally surrender.... or even in shorter words NOT LIVING IN USA.....

In longer words.... First of all basketball for me started with my father (pbuh) who played basketball in fr. Yugoslavia for 30 years, he then became a coach, he got me into it at toddler age in the late 80s.... Since then i have been playing up to 8-10 hours of basketball everyday, 2-3 hours of organized team practice & games and the rest of the hours was spent alone inside or outside (winter, rain, who cares) on mostly jumpshots & ballhandling, i came home only to Eat/Sleep/Watch Basketball (it was mostly Drazen Petrovic, Reggie Miller, Larry Bird i was watching & copying)......

I felt like i worked harder than anybody on planet earth, i felt i loved the game more than anybody on planet earth, i was at one point so confident/cocky about my game i think i could play a PG/SG in the NBA better than anybody easily and i also felt like nobody could shoot the ball like me..... i had a dream and i gave my entire life to go and get it..... i turned down women/partying/friends/anything etc. just to play basketball, i was that into it...

Well what happened?

I turned 17 and finally landed try-outs / practice with a pro/FIBA team i wanted to play with since i was a baby, the KK Cibona (Croatia), this was the team Drazen Petrovic once played with (an idol of mine obviously & the one i completely patterned my game after in every way).... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KK_Cibona
http://www.cibona.com/
This was the furthest i ever got..... everything went well the first month, i felt i was nearing a contract and my independence being soon 18.... What happened before anything of that was the Yugoslavian war, fearing horrific death we/my family had to immigrate to Denmark from Bosnia.......

We lived there running around immigration camps for 5 years before we got the residence papers..... the only serious basketball i could play during those 5 years was in my DREAMS..... All of the sudden i am 22-23 years old in a foreign country (which hates / is horrible at basketball) and have lost my game entirely, i didnt give up and started to practice/play basketball again while learning the language & going to school.... During that time i played with a Danish team in Copenhagen.... Years passed and when i finally got my game together I was hit by ligament problems in my left foot... with no professional help i rested for a year.... now im 28..... and i feel like its no point / its to late chasing that dream any further.... i went to University (Network Engineering) and that was it....

At this point i have a good job and am even older.... basketball is still my sanctuary.... i still go out everyday and play/shoot....

I think i could have managed to play College/NCAA ball and moved perhaps into the NBA if i/we did something as simple as lived in America..... i really do.... i would go as far as even say i guarantee i would considering how much i wanted it and how much i worked for it....

[Kblaze8855]

Steve Kerr is used as an example. If 99.8% of ISH were to, in their prime, have faced Steve Kerr up to a few years after his retirement, he would have destroyed you.

You think that was in dispute?

The issue is why so many people did not even try to match the people who are not as gifted as the untouchables.

Steve Kerr is no doubt great playing a normal guy and he was effective in the NBA. But...

A guy like me...a guy like millions of americans....

We can equal or best Steve Kerr as athletes.

From an article on him:



Steve Kerr insists that even on his best days he could not dunk a basketball, which is difficult to believe. Most guys who are 6-3 and have enough skills to play in the NBA can dunk, even if that is not something that is part of their in-game repertoire. Sometimes during TNT telecasts, Kerr will joke in a self-deprecating way about his lack of jumping ability but he insists, straight faced, “I am 6-3 and I couldn’t dunk. I just got by with what I had.”

That extra gear that Kerr lacked in terms of vertical and lateral explosiveness is something that he always had to compensate for, particularly on defense.

“It was the biggest challenge for me, trying to keep up with all of the players,” Kerr admits. “Everybody I played against was quicker and stronger than I was, pretty much. So I had to learn how to stay in front of guys because if I didn’t there was no way that I was going to stay on the floor. As long as you are putting the effort in and you are paying attention and you have energy then you are going to improve. My stamina, my quickness, my strength all got better and better and I was able to at least stay on the floor defensively.”


Steve Kerr is about the size I was in my prime minus a bit of muscle. I was stronger than Kerr. And bet your ass I could outjump him. I bet I was faster. Quicker? Hard to say. But you put me vs Kerr in a series of tests to see who is most athletic he is not gonna kick my ass.

Hes just a hell of a lot better than me at basketball and would drop 54 on me and laugh while he did it.

Am I really to believe that while he was working his ass off and I was acting like a typical teenager that the work he put in is not largely what puts him so far ahead of me and the millions more athletic than I ever was?

If not...what?

Hand eye I suppose? Muscle memory? Stamina? What are we crediting with it if not the fact that he lived to improve and I just played casually and spent my teen years slacking off?

You think Kerr woke up at 19 a great shooter?

Its the work he put in every day.

And its in no way insulting to Kerr. I respect the work.

I respect a Kerr or a Craig Hodges for what it takes to get there. But im not gonna pretend that they arent built off work ethic. I bet they wouldnt either.

[CelticBaller]

I stuck to the sports I was better at

[Jailblazers7]

The basic premise of this thread is absurd. Sure everyone that plays in the NBA has dedicated themselves to the game and becoming the player they are. But they also had biological advantages that no one (or at least very few) here had.

I played against an NBA All-Star when I was at my peak (while he was in college). It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I immediately recognized it was never going to happen.

Yep, I think my wake-up moment came in like 9th grade. Played against TJ McConnell who plays PG at Arizona now when he was an 8th grader playing up. He was a good 30 lbs lighter and 4-5" shorter than me and he dominated the game. End to end he was the best player on the court by far as an 8th grade shrimp who I we laughed at during warm-ups.

I was a good HS player and could have played in college but decided to pursue an academic scholarship at a better academic institution. I had a terrible work ethic tho and if I really worked hard during my HS year I probably could have made my way onto a small D1 roster.

[inclinerator]

ive seen jj reddick ballhandling in practice, nothing impressive

[3peated]

i don't know. maybe i have bad genes but i never saw making it in the NBA, NFL, or anything like that a realistic option.

[Foster5k]

As others have said, it comes down to A LOT of variables. I'm not going to name them all, because most have been stated already.

Basically, let's take a look at Nate Robinson.

Nate Robinson is the perfect example of why most people cannot make the NBA.

First off, Nate Robinson is 5'9. The genetic disadvantage. Most people are this height or maybe a little taller give or take. Being this height means you're just like the next guy trying to make it into the league.

So, person A is 5'9 and person B is 5'9 and both basically have the same skill set.

Now, for either person A or person B to make it into the league compared to all the other person Cs, Ds, etc. That person must be extraordinary physically. Hence, you have Nate Robinson.

Nate Robinson is me. He is you. However, he has a secrete. He is 10x more athletic than the average 5'9 human. Nate Robinson has a 43.5+ inch vertical. He is pound for pound one of the quickest humans on Earth. He is pound for pound one of the strongest humans on Earth, with all his other attributes. Pound for pound other guys 5'9 may be stronger than Nate, but they surely can't jump as high or be as quick or as fast all at the same time.

Nate Robinson is the reason you're not in the league. Because, even with all that being said about how great psychical specimen Nate Robinson is, even he is at a severe disadvantage in the NBA. He's a strong ant trying to fight a tarantula.

So, the average ISH poster, being 5'9 give or take a little, absolutely has NO SHOT at making the league.

[inclinerator]

What about Steve Nash though? What God-given talents does he have. He's that good from pure hard work.
steve nash said if every1 worked as hard as him he would not be in the nba

[IGOTGAME]

so people think if they work really really hard they could shoot like Ray Allen or handle like Chris Paul? You guys are hilarious. A lot of the skills you think are pure hard work are very much capped off based on natural talent. No matter how many millions of jumpers some people take they will never be Ray Allen.

I was a bit more athletic than JJ Reddick but there is no way I could make the NBA even if I worked a 1000 times as hard as he did. I wasn't born with that touch, a rare innate ability that I could develop. Same with Steve Kerr. That wasnt just hard work, it was an innate talent.

Apply this to IQ and jobs or LAST and law school admissions and see how silly this sounds. There are just certain limits on what people can achieve based on their innate abilities.

A guy with a 90 IQ isn't becoming a rocket scientist. And a guy with bottom 1% genetics and aptitude for basketball isnt going to work his way to being one of the top 400 basketball players in the world.

Anyone who has been around high level players and competed knows this...

[chips93]

Am I really to believe that while he was working his ass off and I was acting like a typical teenager that the work he put in is not largely what puts him so far ahead of me and the millions more athletic than I ever was?

If not...what?

Hand eye I suppose? Muscle memory? Stamina? What are we crediting with it if not the fact that he lived to improve and I just played casually and spent my teen years slacking off?

You think Kerr woke up at 19 a great shooter?

would you agree there is some natural ability in skills though?

its totally anecdotal, but when i played a couple years back (very low level) i know i worked harder than most guys on the team. our best player barely did any practice outside of team practices. id go and shoot at the gym for a couple hours like 5 days a week in the summer. then our season would start up again, and within a week or two, he would shake off the rust, and be a better shooter than me.

even though i had completely out worked him.

im not saying steve kerr didnt work his ass of to get where he is, but some guys just have innate talent that cant be matched.

[pauk]

If you live in the USA.... and have not made it into the NBA its only because of lack of required WILL & WORK ETHIC to obtain such a feat.... i refuse to believe anything else, unless you are/were suffering from a genetic disfunction or horrific injury or something else objectively understandable like that which literally cuffs you from doing what your mind really wants/wanted....

[L.Kizzle]

I was actually too good, it wouldn't even be fair.

I'd make Michael Jordan look like Popeye Jones (literally and physically.)

I was gettin Wilt like NBA-numbers in middle school.

They wouldn't even let me play high school ball because the media would have gotten a wif of me and all hell would have broke loose. Y'all thought LeBron was hyped up in HS. I would have been LeBron x100.

[Foster5k]

A person can have all the will or work ethic they want. When you're versus a psychical specimen, gifted by nature(not by hard work or work ethic) you will lose every time.

Nature beats hard work.

Look at ants. Ants work harder than anything. However, it's fairly easy to step on one. Same is true to you versus an NBA baller.

[fpliii]

Great thread, some of the posts are a little depressing though.

[kshutts1]

A few general notes:
1) Had no clue this thread was so old until I finally started reading through it. LOL.

2) Hard work can only take you so far. There are no amount of shots (2k + per day, even) that can turn an innately bad shooter into a "good enough for the NBA" shooter. Just a predisposition, to a point.

3) A lot more to athleticism than just running, jumping, dunking.

4) Gotta look at the NBA as a career. It's not "just practice and lift weights"... you need to practice, lift weights, run, stay in shape, eat and sleep the right way, practice more, and when everyone else is done practice... you practice still more. And then, and only then, you MIGHT make the L, much less be good. It is a lifetime dedication for anyone that is not an otherworld athlete/natural player. But everyone has limitations. No matter how much I practice/try, I just can't draw. Can't do it. Everyone else in my family has sold art work, but I just can't draw at a 3rd grade level (exaggeration), much less sell something. But my "floor" is so much higher than the normal person in most sports... basketball, football, badminton, tennis, volleyball, baseball... always had more natural talent (not to be confused with athleticism) than 95% of the people I have met. But my ceiling, because of the aforementioned athleticism, is not so high itself. D3-D2 in most of those sports.

[LT Ice Cream]

The fact that you thought you could make the NBA and wanted to make the NBA and still didn't "work hard" enough already shows that you could never become Steve Kerr /thread.

[outbreak]

the NBA is the best of the best, maybe some people scrape in as bench warmers who worked hard and weren't the most naturally gifted but I'd say it's rare. It's the same as playing an instrument, you can practice every day of your life and being extremely good but some people are just wired for doing certain things and you won't be one of the best players in the world unless you have a natural gift to push you over the top. I used to skate every day back in school, I got pretty good and could do similar stuff on handrails and gaps around here that pros did in skate videos but you'd still meet some people who barely skated who could just naturally pull off crazy shit like it was nothing without even trying or barely practising. I've skated with some pros from around here too and the ease they do stuff is just crazy

[hihofink]

This thread is beyond frustrating to read. The notion that Steve Kerr worked harder than anyone else in the country to make the NBA is ridiculous. I assure there were thousands of guys in the driveways and at the park shooting thousand of jumpers every day (and practiced harder than Kerr ever did) and never had a chance.

First off, Steve Kerr is a tremendous athlete. If you are under the belief that he is a stiff and can only just shoot you are greatly mistaken. If you put him in a gym with D3 players, he would look like AI.

As many other mentioned, not dunking and not being tall and or muscular does not mean you didn't hit the genetic lottery. Kerr was born an athlete with incredible vision, hand-eye coordination, quick feet, and tremendous muscle memory. Yes he worked hard, but these basic foundations were needed for him to succeed. As a guy who went the gym every single day after High School to take hundreds and jumpers, I knew a lot of guys that worked their ass off - and this was the hope to simply play D-3 college ball at best.

Sure there are great stories of players taking thousands of jumpers that made the NBA, but there are thousands of untold stories of guys doing the exact same thing (and more) but did not make the NBA simply because they didn't have the athletic ability (the DNA). I could practice 10 hours a day for the rest of my life and never develop even close to the jump shot of Steve Kerr. The thought that muscle memory can be trained for perfect shooting is simply wrong. Yes Kerr practiced the jump shot to perfection, but he had a foundation that 99.9% of the population didn't have. Practice simply is not everything.

I am sure that there were thousands of guys that could have made the NBA if the practiced harder - but this would have to be from the top .1% of the country's athletes. However, 99.9% of the country regardless of how hard they practice would never succeed as they simply don't have the athletic ability.

Maybe you were in that top 1% of the athletes and maybe you could have made the NBA if you practiced hard enough. However, the majority of people here never had that chance.

[pauk]

so people think if they work really really hard they could shoot like Ray Allen or handle like Chris Paul? You guys are hilarious. A lot of the skills you think are pure hard work are very much capped off based on natural talent. No matter how many millions of jumpers some people take they will never be Ray Allen.

Bullshit excuses like this for the lack of their actual will & work ethic i heard alot of times....

Would you believe me if i told you i could get into a groove/rythm and make 60+ NBA range 3PTers in a row and hit 200+ freethrows in a row at any random day at one point in my life?

Would you believe me when i say that is the final result of me shooting the ball since the age of 8 until age of 18, 8 hours every single day? Or do you still believe its natural talent??

Whenever i see shooters of the Drazen, Mark Price, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller and so on magnitude i immediately admire, cherish and respect more than anybody.... because i know in every single detail what they have done to become that good shooters....

Natural talent is more something like Harold Miner or so....

[inclinerator]

This thread is beyond frustrating to read. The notion that Steve Kerr worked harder than anyone else in the country to make the NBA is ridiculous. I assure there were thousands of guys in the driveways and at the park shooting thousand of jumpers every day (and practiced harder than Kerr ever did) and never had a chance.

First off, Steve Kerr is a tremendous athlete. If you are under the belief that he is a stiff and can only just shoot you are greatly mistaken. If you put him in a gym with D3 players, he would look like AI.

As many other mentioned, not dunking and not being tall and or muscular does not mean you didn't hit the genetic lottery. Kerr was born an athlete with incredible vision, hand-eye coordination, quick feet, and tremendous muscle memory. Yes he worked hard, but these basic foundations were needed for him to succeed. As a guy who went the gym every single day after High School to take hundreds and jumpers, I knew a lot of guys that worked their ass off - and this was the hope to simply play D-3 college ball at best.

Sure there are great stories of players taking thousands of jumpers that made the NBA, but there are thousands of untold stories of guys doing the exact same thing (and more) but did not make the NBA simply because they didn't have the athletic ability (the DNA). I could practice 10 hours a day for the rest of my life and never develop even close to the jump shot of Steve Kerr. The thought that muscle memory can be trained for perfect shooting is simply wrong. Yes Kerr practiced the jump shot to perfection, but he had a foundation that 99.9% of the population didn't have. Practice simply is not everything.

I am sure that there were thousands of guys that could have made the NBA if the practiced harder - but this would have to be from the top .1% of the country's athletes. However, 99.9% of the country regardless of how hard they practice would never succeed as they simply don't have the athletic ability.

Maybe you were in that top 1% of the athletes and maybe you could have made the NBA if you practiced hard enough. However, the majority of people here never had that chance.
there are many dead eye shooters, dave hopla, etc world record holders, do you think they were born with god like coordination? or was it decades of hard work

[Foster5k]

Let's just say an ISH poster can shoot like Stephen Curry. That ISH poster would still probably not make the league. First, are you 6'3? Curry is. Can you handle the rock at an elite level? Curry can. Did you go to the right school and get the right exposure? Curry did. Are you quick? Curry is. Are you all around athletic? Curry is. Can you play defense? Curry can.

Can you answer yes to all those questions? Well, you might make the league. However, that's all based on the fact if you can actually shoot as good as Stephen Curry, one of the greatest NBA shooters of all time. Good luck.

[Dro]

As others have said, it comes down to A LOT of variables. I'm not going to name them all, because most have been stated already.

Basically, let's take a look at Nate Robinson.

Nate Robinson is the perfect example of why most people cannot make the NBA.

First off, Nate Robinson is 5'9. The genetic disadvantage. Most people are this height or maybe a little taller give or take. Being this height means you're just like the next guy trying to make it into the league.

So, person A is 5'9 and person B is 5'9 and both basically have the same skill set.

Now, for either person A or person B to make it into the league compared to all the other person Cs, Ds, etc. That person must be extraordinary physically. Hence, you have Nate Robinson.

Nate Robinson is me. He is you. However, he has a secrete. He is 10x more athletic than the average 5'9 human. Nate Robinson has a 43.5+ inch vertical. He is pound for pound one of the quickest humans on Earth. He is pound for pound one of the strongest humans on Earth, with all his other attributes. Pound for pound other guys 5'9 may be stronger than Nate, but they surely can't jump as high or be as quick or as fast all at the same time.

Nate Robinson is the reason you're not in the league. Because, even with all that being said about how great psychical specimen Nate Robinson is, even he is at a severe disadvantage in the NBA. He's a strong ant trying to fight a tarantula.

So, the average ISH poster, being 5'9 give or take a little, absolutely has NO SHOT at making the league.
I completely agree with this. I'm shocked that people actually DON'T agree with this....

[IGOTGAME]

Bullshit excuses like this for the lack of their actual will & work ethic i heard alot of times....

Would you believe me if i told you i could get into a groove/rythm and make 60+ NBA range 3PTers in a row and hit 200+ freethrows in a row at any random day at one point in my life?

Would you believe me when i say that is the final result of me shooting the ball since the age of 8 until age of 18, 8 hours every single day? Or do you still believe its natural talent??

Whenever i see shooters of the Mark Price, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller and so on magnitude i immediately admire, cherish and respect more than anybody.... because i know in every single detail what they have done to become that good shooters....

Honestly, I dont care much either way. If true, I would still say it was a natural talent honed. Dwight Howard could do the exact same thing and he still couldnt shoot. It is a talent that has to be honed.

[CelticBaller]

As others have said, it comes down to A LOT of variables. I'm not going to name them all, because most have been stated already.

Basically, let's take a look at Nate Robinson.

Nate Robinson is the perfect example of why most people cannot make the NBA.

First off, Nate Robinson is 5'9. The genetic disadvantage. Most people are this height or maybe a little taller give or take. Being this height means you're just like the next guy trying to make it into the league.

So, person A is 5'9 and person B is 5'9 and both basically have the same skill set.

Now, for either person A or person B to make it into the league compared to all the other person Cs, Ds, etc. That person must be extraordinary physically. Hence, you have Nate Robinson.

Nate Robinson is me. He is you. However, he has a secrete. He is 10x more athletic than the average 5'9 human. Nate Robinson has a 43.5+ inch vertical. He is pound for pound one of the quickest humans on Earth. He is pound for pound one of the strongest humans on Earth, with all his other attributes. Pound for pound other guys 5'9 may be stronger than Nate, but they surely can't jump as high or be as quick or as fast all at the same time.

Nate Robinson is the reason you're not in the league. Because, even with all that being said about how great psychical specimen Nate Robinson is, even he is at a severe disadvantage in the NBA. He's a strong ant trying to fight a tarantula.

So, the average ISH poster, being 5'9 give or take a little, absolutely has NO SHOT at making the league.
This right here.

[Kblaze8855]

I mentioned Shammond Williams earlier(as in...6 years ago). When he was at Southside high just up the street from here he was kinda chubby and just....ok. He worked harder than anyone I ever knew though. Soon he was stocky and not chubby. Then muscular. He went from a good shooter if open to waiting till someone closes out on him to shoot on purpose just because an open shot wasnt a challenge.

He had nothing you could see that made it likely he makes it.

His little brother however?

Alfred Williams. He was called Fluff for a reason I dont remember. Good friend of my little cousins and he was from my neighborhood so I knew him. Saw him all the time playing ball.

He had all Shammond didnt.

He was 6'4'', was dunking his ass off at 15, and he moved in the air like Vince Carter. He didnt dunk like him but I mean that fluid effortless look like Vince had.

He was in the finals of a dunk contest at a pep rally and missed a dunk from the FT line while another guy I know jumped over the old gym teacher and made it. He lost...but he put on a show.

But he didnt do what shammond did. You didnt go by the courts and see him working in the drizzle shooting by himself.

He hung around my little brother and their friends bullshitting talking about how he was gonna be in the NBA but doing nothing on his own time to make it happen.

Just off talent he did play I think D2 or 3. This is him here:


http://www.xula.edu/athletics/mb/photos/alfredwilliamsaction.jpg


Hes an assistant coach at some NAIA school after he played for some teams so obscure they sound like a joke.

Just off talent he made a life in basketball.

But if you were around it....these brothers. One gifted with it all and one a chubby short kid(Hes 5'11'').....

One made the Lakers the other was just....a good pickup game player?

If you saw the difference in work ethic I dont think you would attribute anything else to the difference in success.

And there are so many people like that in my life and my past. All these "Im a short white guy" posts I dont really relate to. Not just because im not a short white guy...but because I didnt come up around many.

Im from chicago....then the south. My high school was 85% black. I grew up with people who were no less athletic than a lot of the people we watched on tv. My uncle played but got into other things and never went anywhere. His friend briefly made the NBA in the 70s. My mom was the center on a team that lost the state championship by a single shot.

I played church league, middle school, and HS ball because its what we did. So many I ran into too many "That dud was a beast....till he stopped caring"cases and it skews my perception....


But from where I sat....the guys I saw make something of themselves did it off hard work.

And people like my cousin Andre who was the quickest ball handler I knew slacked off and ended up getting 20 years in jail on drug charges. Or people like my brothers friend Pat who played for the ****ing Cumberland Patriots(The one who beat Fluff in the dunk contest) chase girls through high school then walk on at some school nobody ever heard of then end up doing nothing....

This is him:


http://www.cumberlandspatriots.com/imagesImported/phpPXEhhK11132005.jpg

Those guys didnt fail for lack of potential. They didnt even make a serious effort.

Perhaps there are less of them than my upbringing and neighborhoods made me believe.....but ive seen too many. Its frustrating.

Especially because I was one of them.

Im not saying I should be in the NBA.

Im saying.....I love basketball more than anything and I didnt even try.

And it bugs me in retrospect.

[pauk]

Honestly, I dont care much either way. If true, I would still say it was a natural talent honed. Dwight Howard could do the exact same thing and he still couldnt shoot. It is a talent that has to be honed.

You are somewhat right about such natural talents, but shooting ability.... that there is not a natural talent, trust me!

[inclinerator]

Honestly, I dont care much either way. If true, I would still say it was a natural talent honed. Dwight Howard could do the exact same thing and he still couldnt shoot. It is a talent that has to be honed.
he can shoot, 80 percent ft in practice

[IGOTGAME]

I grew up playing with Taquean Dean, was a great shooter at Louisville. Guy worked as hard as I think was possible for him. Just couldnt develop as a ballhandler, wasnt that he didnt try.

[pauk]

A person can have all the will or work ethic they want. When you're versus a psychical specimen, gifted by nature(not by hard work or work ethic) you will lose every time.

Yea, if you were playing 1 on 1.... but in a basketball game the "midget hard working me" will use my ballhandling/vision/passing ability/shooting ability/IQ to impact the game more so than his size or vertical leap can.....

[mr beast]

i personally think it can be achieved through hard work. everyone can make the nba if they can dedicate the time and know what to train on to make the cut. especially when it comes down to skill sets such as shooting and handling the ball.

your god given abilities is what makes you a great or not. almost all the great players have some sort of athletic advantage over normal players in one way or another

[BoutPractice]

I completely agree with this. I'm shocked that people actually DON'T agree with this....
But a lot of people DO have the genetics. And within that category 99.9% don't take full advantage of it.

[inclinerator]

alot of ppl underrate their genetics, eye coordination etc. they just didnt put enough work in to see

[Shade8780]

would you agree there is some natural ability in skills though?

its totally anecdotal, but when i played a couple years back (very low level) i know i worked harder than most guys on the team. our best player barely did any practice outside of team practices. id go and shoot at the gym for a couple hours like 5 days a week in the summer. then our season would start up again, and within a week or two, he would shake off the rust, and be a better shooter than me.

even though i had completely out worked him.

im not saying steve kerr didnt work his ass of to get where he is, but some guys just have innate talent that cant be matched.
What type of gyms did you go to? In Galway you have to book basketball courts for big fees per hour, no indoor free/membership gyms like in the US.

[Kblaze8855]

so people think if they work really really hard they could shoot like Ray Allen or handle like Chris Paul? You guys are hilarious. A lot of the skills you think are pure hard work are very much capped off based on natural talent. No matter how many millions of jumpers some people take they will never be Ray Allen.


Funny you should say that about Ray. Ray HATES people saying hes a natural talent. The Heat commentators joked about him going off on someone saying how talented he was.

Ray says its 3 million jumpers not talent. You dont have to agree. Im just saying the said that he said it. Just came back to me reading your post.

[IGOTGAME]

[QUOTE]so people think if they work really really hard they could shoot like Ray Allen or handle like Chris Paul? You guys are hilarious. A lot of the skills you think are pure hard work are very much capped off based on natural talent. No matter how many millions of jumpers some people take they will never be Ray Allen./QUOTE]


Funny you should say that about Ray. Ray HATES people saying hes a natural talent. The Heat commentators joked about him going off on someone saying how talented he says.

Ray says its 3 million jumpers not talent. You dont have to agree. Im just saying the said that he said it. Just came back to me reading your post.

I've heard him say that and it reminds me of people who do well with high aptitudes and say it 100% work ethic. It actually bothered me when I heard it. Work ethic is necessary but not sufficient.

[Dro]

But a lot of people DO have the genetics. And within that category 99.9% don't take full advantage of it.
I disagree with this. I just do. Like dude said, the average person is around 5'9 or something. I don't know many dudes who actually enjoy and play basketball who are taller than like 6'2 honestly. And I used to play ball all the time. I'm talking just at the park or the YMCA, or whatever gym you play in. Now, yes in leagues, many dudes are tall and skilled but on the average, I don't think so.

[BoutPractice]

I disagree with this. I just do. Like dude said, the average person is around 5'9 or something. I don't know many dudes who actually enjoy and play basketball who are taller than like 6'2 honestly. And I used to play ball all the time.
I'm not talking about the average. I'm just saying that the pool of people who have the minimum athleticism required to become basketball pros is much, much larger than the pool of those who do make it, as a statistical fact. Something has to differentiate those who do make it from those who don't, and that would be hard work (although to be fair a part of hard work itself is genetics, the rest being education/environment)

[fragokota]

Says who that "we all wanted to be in the nba" ? Heck, i love the sport, i used to play just for the fun of it, but it wasn't my dream of becoming a professional player. I also love music and movies, it doesn't mean i have an interest in becoming either a musician or an actor...

[SpanishACB]

Exactly. The weeding out process doesn't begin at NBA level. It begins in 4th and 5th grade. As the wheat is separated from the chaff sure, some guys with talent fall by the wayside due to lack of interest, injury, success in other sports/pursuits, etc.

But "Talent" is the operative word. You can work all day on a skill set and, if you don't have a decent level of natural ability, your ceiling is still going to limited. Some people can pick up a guitar and instinctively play with little instruction. Others can play a lifetime and still never reach a level of proficiency.

The problem with this assumption and the board in general is the immature notion that "I could've made it". No, you probably couldn't have. And to think that you "could've" based off success in jr high or low-end high school ball... or worse, pickup ball... just shows that you don't live in reality.

Steve Kerr is used as an example. If 99.8% of ISH were to, in their prime, have faced Steve Kerr up to a few years after his retirement, he would have destroyed you. Not just because he was a great shooter, but because he'd be a better ball handler than you'd ever seen in person, would be physically and mentally tougher than you, and would basically run your ass ragged. He would kill you without ever taking a 3. Seriously, a guy like that would clown you. There's that much difference between who the kids on here call "scrubs" and what you perceive is your level of talent. The worst NBA player would be the best player that ever walked into your gym. Every time. By a lot.

I'm 6'8 and played D1 ball a hundred years ago. Really good player. Dominated at a high-end high school level. Played Rucker Park, Sonny Hill league in Philly, Fon du Lac Rec in Houston. Lots of high caliber opposition. Didn't get there without out-working everyone in my immediate peer group and having size/talent.athletic ability. But it still didn't take a genius to see the difference between me and the
guys that were going to be successful at the next level. And trust me, I was the guy who walked into your pickup game and decided how it was going to go. It's just a whole different level.

Listen to this guy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOw8aC78LoU

[pauk]

Being a normal sized PG Internationally making to the NBA is viciously much harder than being that from USA/College/NCAA aswell.... you have to be something extremly exceptional/one of a kind to stand out and even then its not a guarantee and even then you might get into the NBA a bit to late.... and even then you might not get a decent shot at it when you do get there (playing time, starting spot).... like Sarunas Jasikevicius, Arvydas Sabonis and so on.... even the greatest European player ever (Drazen) had to go through that....

Seems like the few NBA scouts that do spend time here look mostly for size / natural talent kids.... they go after that "potential"... and then try to develope that potential.... like Giannis Antetokounmpo or something....

Living/Developing as a basketball player from the get go in the USA i feel is the most helpful path towards the NBA or successful Basketball career in general.... Highschool, College/NCAA, Draft, NBA.... yay... if not NBA then you most likely will have a contract with some international team and still get decent money enough to do what you love....

[Kblaze8855]

I've heard him say that and it reminds me of people who do well with high aptitudes and say it 100% work ethic. It actually bothered me when I heard it. Work ethic is necessary but not sufficient.

Ray Allen has not had a burger in 18 years. He eats right, works out like a maniac, shoots all day, jogs all night and has done it since like 1992.

http://www.grafxhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/rayallen2.jpg

If you worked to have an 18 pack and shot a million jumpers alone in the gym and showed up 4 hours before tipoff to warm up would you want someone saying you are a natural? Or someone offering the due praise for the insane work you put in?



"You see so many things happen, so many temptations," Allen said. "I just always said to myself, I wanted to be great at what I was doing. For me, it's a testament to just saying, 'Well, I'll have fun later. Right now, I need to put my work in.' Get the work in at the early part of the day, so you can enjoy the latter half of the day -- whether it's the latter half of the latter quarter of the day, you get to enjoy that knowing you put your work in."

It is no coincidence that -- like Miller, like Larry Bird, like all the great shooters -- Allen arrives at arenas hours before many of his teammates, a slave to a pregame routine that has him shoot up to 300 shots, from all over the court, for up to an hour.

Threes from the corner, from the wings, from the top of the key. Post-ups in the lane, floaters, runners. Shots off pin-downs, shots with the ball over his head, shots with the ball at his ankles. Shots backing up, where he doesn't see where he's going. Even shots getting up off the floor. He does this before every game -- preseason, regular season and playoffs.


Ray Allen is a machine.

Hes also 6'5'' and athletic. Which no doubt helps. But id say(and so would he) that there is nothing natural about where he is. He decided to dedicate his life to it. And it paid off.

I think its reasonable to assume a lot more could have done it. Everyone? No. Some people are 5'2'' and unathletic.

But the above average athlete?

I dont know what you become if you work like that and live that clean.

But it probably isnt an ISH poster.


You might be next to Ray 3 hours before tipoff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIMq1LLij_U

[IGOTGAME]

Ray Allen has not had a burger in 18 years. He eats right, works out like a maniac, shoots all day, jogs all night and has done it since like 1992.

http://www.grafxhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/rayallen2.jpg

If you worked to have an 18 pack and shot a million jumpers alone in the gym and showed up 4 hours before tipoff to warm up would you want someone saying you are a natural? Or someone offering the due praise for the insane work you put in?





Ray Allen is a machine.

Hes also 6'5'' and athletic. Which no doubt helps. But id say(and so would he) that there is nothing natural about where he is. He decided to dedicate his life to it. And it paid off.

I think its reasonable to assume a lot more could have done it. Everyone? No. Some people are 5'2'' and unathletic.

But the above average athlete?

I dont know what you become if you work like that and live that clean.

But it probably isnt an ISH poster.


You might be next to Ray 3 hours before tipoff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIMq1LLij_U

yea, they prob wouldnt be in the NBA. They would have played college basketball and got a job(remember most D3 and D2 athletes are for the most part way above the average American athletically for their sport), like many people do. The idea of playing in a domestic league for peanuts isnt appealing to everyone or maybe they want to maximize another interest or maybe that was above their talent level too.

Id say you are both naive. If he doesn't want to believe he has an innate talent than so be it. I know people in my field that are partners at huge law firms. They will all go on about how hard they work, and they do work hard. But make no mistake, there is a minimum level of aptitude needed and no amount of hard work is gonna overcome a insufficient IQ. Shooting, which requires coordination, touch and depth perception, is the similar in that way.

btw...I post on ISH from my job and I'm successful in my field. Posting on a bball forum isn't some career kiss of death. And not making it to the NBA isn't some indictment on your work ethic.

[Dro]

I'm not talking about the average. I'm just saying that the pool of people who have the minimum athleticism required to become basketball pros is much, much larger than the pool of those who do make it, as a statistical fact. Something has to differentiate those who do make it from those who don't, and that would be hard work (although to be fair a part of hard work itself is genetics, the rest being education/environment)
Ok, I see what you're saying...

[Kblaze8855]

I post from work as well. Im sure many do. It isnt about work ethic in life. Nobody I know ever questioned my work ethic. But I mean as it related to sports of course.

And if Ray Allen is cloned tomorrow and never exposed to the game he might well be someone saying it cant be done. But fact is most will never even try.

Im not the type to assume I cant do what ive never tried. Within reason at least. And too many people with little physical talent make it for me to call it unreasonable.

[IGOTGAME]

I post from work as well. Im sure many do. It isnt about work ethic in life. Nobody I know ever questioned my work ethic. But I mean as it related to sports of course.

And if Ray Allen is cloned tomorrow and never exposed to the game he might well be someone saying it cant be done. But fact is most will never even try.

Im not the type to assume I cant do what ive never tried. Within reason at least. And too many people with little physical talent make it for me to call it unreasonable.

I busted my ass playing ball. 2 guys from my AAU team are in the NBA, the only reason I was on that squad was because I was a hard worker putting up thousands of shots a day etc. I'm not saying I didn't try...I'm just not ashamed to say I didn't make and it wasn't just because was goofing off instead. I'm happy with the outcome tho.

If Ray thought that as a 6"6 guy with top .001% genetics than he would be silly. What I'm saying, as someone who has seen a lot of NBA guys come through the ranks, is that your premise is a joke. Most basketball skills are based a large part on innate talent.

[mr beast]

Ray Allen has not had a burger in 18 years. He eats right, works out like a maniac, shoots all day, jogs all night and has done it since like 1992.

http://www.grafxhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/rayallen2.jpg

If you worked to have an 18 pack and shot a million jumpers alone in the gym and showed up 4 hours before tipoff to warm up would you want someone saying you are a natural? Or someone offering the due praise for the insane work you put in?





Ray Allen is a machine.

Hes also 6'5'' and athletic. Which no doubt helps. But id say(and so would he) that there is nothing natural about where he is. He decided to dedicate his life to it. And it paid off.

I think its reasonable to assume a lot more could have done it. Everyone? No. Some people are 5'2'' and unathletic.

But the above average athlete?

I dont know what you become if you work like that and live that clean.

But it probably isnt an ISH poster.


You might be next to Ray 3 hours before tipoff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIMq1LLij_U



lol i remember a few years back, Ray Allen was ripping players for saying thanks for the god given ability to come out and have a great night during interviews because he busted his ass to get to where he' at.

[avonbarksdale]

it isn't like that


every single one of those guys are amazing athletes, no debating whatsoever

you can look at the most unathletic guy in the league, and he will smash the record set at your high school for the beep test, and will be a natural at any other sport he plays

while obviously these guys worked on their game much harder than any of us, you cannot ignore the freak size and athleticism required to make it big, and that is simply a fact

if you're a 5'8 unathletic white guy who practices like ray allen, you won't be ray allen - plain and simple

[Kblaze8855]

Its hard to call a lot of this shit genetics.

How much credit do you give to DNA and how much to eating right for 20 years, running, and shooting all day?

What part of his greatness is talent? You dont roll out of bed never having touched a ball and be Ray Allen. Ray Allen is created by blood, sweat, and tears.

Its hard to even define talent. You dont just...have within you basketball ability. It has to be created. You can have....athletic ability. But thats about it. You arent just gonna naturally have the nicest finger roll or be able to break ankles.

None of it comes from genetics.

I know there are musical prodigies but I dont know man...

Some things just arent in your blood. An inside out crossover into a floater in traffic is one of them.

[Kblaze8855]

you can look at the most unathletic guy in the league, and he will smash the record set at your high school for the beep test, and will be a natural at any other sport he plays

That just....isnt true at all.

At all.

There are Randy Moss types who are just absurd athletes...and there are guys like Jerome James.

You arent gonna just...be born to be great at any sport. You can be born likely to be athletic. But that isnt the same thing. There are plenty of things you could beat an NBA player at if he has not put in the work.

Monta ellis would beat my ass in tennis because he played it and hes a crazy athlete.

Me and Brad Miller hit the tennis court with equal inexperience...hes not gonna just absord greatness from the air and go to work.

[Psycho]

That just....isnt true at all.

At all.

There are Randy Moss types who are just absurd athletes...and there are guys like Jerome James.

You arent gonna just...be born to be great at any sport. You can be born likely to be athletic. But that isnt the same thing. There are plenty of things you could beat an NBA player at if he has not put in the work.

Monta ellis would beat my ass in tennis because he played it and hes a crazy athlete.

Me and Brad Miller hit the tennis court with equal inexperience...hes not gonna just absord greatness from the air and go to work.


I don't know man. I knew a guy in high school who went on to play Div 1 football who had never played lacrosse in his life, and just decided to pick it up his senior year to mess around with his buddies after getting accepted to college. He ended up being one of the best players on varsity by the end of the season, and he wasn't even taking the sport seriously.

[veilside23]

i think its obvious thats its a combination of talent and dedication ...

blood sweat and tears and sacrifice...


but great thread...

[avonbarksdale]

That just....isnt true at all.

At all.

There are Randy Moss types who are just absurd athletes...and there are guys like Jerome James.

You arent gonna just...be born to be great at any sport. You can be born likely to be athletic. But that isnt the same thing. There are plenty of things you could beat an NBA player at if he has not put in the work.

Monta ellis would beat my ass in tennis because he played it and hes a crazy athlete.

Me and Brad Miller hit the tennis court with equal inexperience...hes not gonna just absord greatness from the air and go to work.


lol, if you played volleyball in high school and thought you were good, anyone in the nba could play it for a week even if they never have and would be 10000000x better than you ever were

these guys are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES, for you to think they are not athletic enough to smash the beap test and be good at any sport you are simply being absurd

the biggest slowest scrub in the nba is still being played millions of dollars to play a sport, and i can guarantee you they are freak athletes

edit - yes brad miller would beat you in tennis if neither of you had played it. the coordination, speed, skill and general athletic ability he possess will easily make him better than you and i am certain of this

[Kblaze8855]

lol, if you played volleyball in high school and thought you were good, anyone in the nba could play it for a week even if they never have and would be 10000000x better than you ever were

these guys are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES, for you to think they are not athletic enough to smash the beap test and be good at any sport you are simply being absurd

the biggest slowest scrub in the nba is still being played millions of dollars to play a sport, and i can guarantee you they are freak athletes

edit - yes brad miller would beat you in tennis if neither of you had played it. the coordination, speed, skill and general athletic ability he possess will easily make him better than you and i am certain of this

Yea....a guy who never played baseball is just gonna step out and be able to hit a ****ing curveball because he can score in the post.

Shannon Brown is gonna out sweep me in curling if neither of us have done it because of his vertical.

It doesnt matter if Steph Curry ever fought a day in his life. Hes gonna come kick my ass if we had a MMA match because his jumper is so nice even if im bigger and stronger. He can split a pick and roll so he has a strong chin and absorbs wrestling ability from the air without learning it.

I played linebacker and DE in highschool but since he was in the NBA Spud Webb is more equipped to take on an offensive lineman than me even if hes the size of a 7th grader.

You speak like someone who has never been around athletes.

NBA players lose BASKETBALL GAMES to people off the street who would never sniff the league......

They can lose a basketball game to non professions.....the game they dedicate their lives to.

But....

Tyrone Nesby is naturally more capable as a cross country skiier than my friend who runs marathons .

Carlos Boozer is just gonna kick my ass as a high diver.

JJ Barea...way more capable of making a horse jump high in the olympics than us mere mortals.

Having the tools to be great at one sport....just means you are better than everyone at everything if you wanted to be.

So since Reggie Miller could destroy me on the court...if we step over into the weightroom and do some olympic style clean and jerks....hes gonna own me there too. Hes lanky and was 190 pounds at 6'7'' in his prime. His frame isnt made to support much weight at odd angles. But....his jumper and reflexes are such that he would own me.....just because.

Kevin Durant couldnt bench 135 as a rookie but I could do it in 9th grade.

But 19 year old KD is gonna beat my adult version in say....a strongman competition....because a nasty jumper helps him lift rocks and flip tires right?


**** outta here.

they are athletes fit to do what they do and a few other things that let them use similar skills.

They are not super soldiers.

[avonbarksdale]

Yea....a guy who never played baseball is just gonna step out and be able to hit a ****ing curveball because he can score in the post.

Shannon Brown is gonna out sweep me in curling if neither of us have done it because of his vertical.

It doesnt matter if Steph Curry ever fought a day in his life. Hes gonna come kick my ass if we had a MMA match because his jumper is so nice even if im bigger and stronger. He can split a pick and roll so he has a strong chin and absorbs wrestling ability from the air without learning it.

I played linebacker and DE in highschool but since he was in the NBA Spud Webb is more equipped to take on an offensive lineman than me even if hes the size of a 7th grader.

You speak like someone who has never been around athletes.

NBA players lose BASKETBALL GAMES to people off the street who would never sniff the league......

They can lose a basketball game to non professions.....the game they dedicate their lives to.

But....

Tyrone Nesby is naturally more capable as a cross country skiier than my friend who runs marathons .

Carlos Boozer is just gonna kick my ass as a high diver.

JJ Barea...way more capable of making a horse jump high in the olympics than us mere mortals.

Having the tools to be great at one sport....just means you are better than everyone at everything if you wanted to be.

So since Reggie Miller could destroy me on the court...if we step over into the weightroom and do some olympic style clean and jerks....hes gonna own me there too. Hes lanky and was 190 pounds at 6'7'' in his prime. His frame isnt made to support much weight at odd angles. But....his jumper and reflexes are such that he would own me.....just because.

Kevin Durant couldnt bench 135 as a rookie but I could do it in 9th grade.

But 19 year old KD is gonna beat my adult version in say....a strongman competition....because a nasty jumper helps him lift rocks and flip tires right?


**** outta here.

they are athletes fit to do what they do and a few other things that let them use similar skills.

They are not super soldiers.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMxebBNvjU sidney crosby - who does not play baseball hits an out of the park homerun very easily, because he is a crazy athlete


if you are a good athlete you will be good at most sports. i dont know why you would say a strongman contest that has nothing to do with being athletic that is just practice and dedication. you are freaking out because i said that nba players are better natural athletes than most people and with no experience they would be better at sports that you also have no experience in

if you don't think that is true you clearly don't know anything about athletics

[KobeClutchAsFK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMxebBNvjU sidney crosby - who does not play baseball hits an out of the park homerun very easily, because he is a crazy athlete


if you are a good athlete you will be good at most sports. i dont know why you would say a strongman contest that has nothing to do with being athletic that is just practice and dedication. you are freaking out because i said that nba players are better natural athletes than most people and with no experience they would be better at sports that you also have no experience in

if you don't think that is true you clearly don't know anything about athletics

I agree with this for the most part. Naturally, basketball skills won't translate over to every sport, but they will pick those other sports up faster than most people because their coordination, balance, dexterity, agility, body control, reaction time, etc... is better than the vast majority of people.

[iamgine]

And for the record Wilts problem was mental. He shot 80% in practice and beat Calvin Murphy(who shot 95% one season) a few times. He had FT coaches watch him make nearly a 100 in a row then miss 15 that night. Team paid to send him to a sports psychiatrist. They worked out so much the doctor became a great shooter and he and Wilt used to knock them down by the dozens like nothing. Game starts? Mental block. Even Shaq shoots great(by his standards) when the game isnt being played.
Funny how it's always the great big guys who get this "mental block". The great people who dominates in every other way. If they really have mental block, why doesn't it show in any other facet? So it just shows in the least pressurized part of the game? What kind of nonsense is this?

I honestly don't see why it would be mental block when their form is terrible. But then if they do great in practice...wtf?

[avonbarksdale]

I agree with this for the most part. Naturally, basketball skills won't translate over to every sport, but they will pick those other sports up faster than most people because their coordination, balance, dexterity, agility, body control, reaction time, etc... is better than the vast majority of people.


exactly. i am not saying that basketball translates to other sports, i am simply saying that if you are a good enough athlete to become an nba player, you are clearly a good enough athlete to easily be above average in other sports

[B-Easy8]

I like your point about being forced to play the 4 at 6'3. I was 6'4 playing ball in highschool and I was forced to play C. Get to pro level and there are PG's that are 6'4.

I would have loved to play ball and run all day to attempt to make my dreams come true but at the end of the day its too risky. I had to study in order to get a good degree instead of continuing to ball and playing divi 2 college ball or playing professionaly in a shitty league somewhere.

My mate and I took different paths when we hit 16. We were the starting PF and C for our team. I studied hard and got into a good university and he balled out all day and is now playing college ball for a lowly divi 1 team. At the end of the day you have had a great 3 or 4 years at college but what after that?

[tpols]

Aside from natural height, speed, and strength I think were overlooking natural coordination here..

like Reggie Evans could practice his ballhandling for thousands of hours and he likely did playing everyday in college practices high school practices just messing around.. hell never be able to handle the ball like Lebron.. and hes built just like him as a speciman. Reggie just doesnt move his body the same way. Lebron may be able to put in the same hours as reggie, but he just has a knack for handling the ball.. the way he moves with fluidity and handles all the subtle motions, it's just better.


Hakeem and Duncan didnt play basketball until they were basically men.. but they were trained heavy in coordination sports. Duncan was a swimmer and to be a great swimmer you need to perfect coordination of stroking with your arms and legs and combining it all. Hakeem played soccer which is all coordination. Thats why these guys could pick up bball so easily.. they had form perfected so well it could translate to anything much easier than someone like Dwight who never perfected form in any discilpline and just relied on his size and speed to get by.

[FKAri]

i dont know why you would say a strongman contest that has nothing to do with being athletic that is just practice and dedication.

http://medias.omgif.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Damned.gif

[Mirjalovic]

I busted my ass playing ball. 2 guys from my AAU team are in the NBA, the only reason I was on that squad was because I was a hard worker putting up thousands of shots a day etc. I'm not saying I didn't try...I'm just not ashamed to say I didn't make and it wasn't just because was goofing off instead. I'm happy with the outcome tho.

If Ray thought that as a 6"6 guy with top .001% genetics than he would be silly. What I'm saying, as someone who has seen a lot of NBA guys come through the ranks, is that your premise is a joke. Most basketball skills are based a large part on innate talent.
who are that players ?

[9512]

I didn't make it because I am 5 foot 8 but can't play pg. I am slow to boot, have a low IQ for the game, wasn't even durable enough to play jv ball (no cuts btw), didn't have mental toughness, etc, etc, plus my experience playing was not fun because one guy on the team whose dad was the coach didn't like me so I got black balled big time.

I don't need to go any further. I suck at basketball and that's fine (no excuses) but this doesn't stop me from playing a game of around the world or horse with friends.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Probably because I grew up spoiled with overly supportive parents.

[sundizz]

When you know that your height, athleticism, and speed are barriers you can't overcome with skill. Even at 5'7, with shitty all of those, I am still usually the best player on most courts I step onto. I got every move in the book, post move, etc. I did that whole sleep, dribble, eat etc with a bball from 6 till 17. I'm awesome at hoops. My body is not awesome for athletics. It is what it is. I maximized my potential. Sadly, my potential was a walk-on D1 player.

[I<3NBA]

i'd just like to point out that there's a difference between working hard and working hard correctly. if you shoot 1,000 jumpers with your form wrong, then you're just reinforcing your bad shooting. you have to work hard but work correctly.

some just keep working hard but doing the wrong forms, or practicing wrong things.

imo, height is really the only limiting factor in basketball. all the other things can be worked at. you can bulk up, lose weight, hustle harder, improve your skills - but height? you can't be any taller than what your genes have made you.

that's why i like soccer more. the physical limitations preventing you from playing it competitively is less. even small guys can dominate in soccer. you don't even have to be athletic. just fast on your feet.

i mean, i got into my HS varsity team even if i was such a scrub. i got in on passing IQ alone. admittedly, i had to work on my stamina and endurance. i can get by not carrying the ball so much just by passing the ball fluidly. i knew where all my teammates where at all times and i knew how to break down the defense. i was a natural midfielder.

we practiced daily. we would run the field 3 hours non stop and i'd never get tired. i got better at playing but to be that good to be a professional? i knew even if i worked day and night i'd probably never sniff even 2nd division in Asian clubs. and i come from a non-footballing nation. basketball is our craze.

now, coaching, that i know i can do.

[Swaggin916]

I didn't have the work ethic. If I thought the way I do now then, I would have worked 8+ hours a day doing what I needed to do with a fresh young body. The thought would be, I love this game so much that it makes no sense not to work hard and make a career out of it. It's all good though... I believe that if I wanted to I could make a career out of it now somewhere. The belief in hard work and perseverance paying will always be there for me with whatever I do. I could have been like a Mark Price or a Steve Nash though... I have the potential to be a freak shooter and if I got comfortable enough with my handles to where I never even thought about them... offensively the game would come super easy. Defense would be probably always be a struggle tho... Just not that shifty. I would work on relentlessly though.

But yea most young people just can't see that far ahead... having a good mentor goes a long way. In the end it's still u[ to the kid though and how bad they want it.

[che guevara]

i sort of disagree with the notion that we all could've been steve kerr if we worked hard enough.
Yeah, this. By normal standards, Kerr is tall, incredibly coordinated, and extremely athletic.

I'm 5'9" and a totally average athlete, even when I was in shape in HS. Here's the list of players 5'9" or shorter to have an NBA career worth mentioning:

Nate Robinson
Calvin Murphy
Spudd Webb
Earl Boykins
Muggsy Bogues
Isaiah Thomas

The common theme with these guys, is that they're ABSOLUTE FREAKS OF ****ING NATURE compared to the average human. They have other insane physical gifts that help make up for their lack of height; there's a reason we never have, and never will see a 5'8" guy with average (relative to the population) athleticism make the league. It doesn't matter how how hard you worked or how skilled you are, the bottom line is that you aren't going to make the NBA without being a genetic outlier (whether it be height, coordination, speed/quickness, etc.)

[Kblaze8855]

Sidney crosby can hit a home run?

There are people on this site who can hit a home run. I couldnt because I sucked at baseball(offense at least)l. It isn't because baseball players are flat out more athletic than I was.

And strength competitions dont count as athletics?

So....an olympic power lifter isnt even an athlete?

A guy throwing a ball in a hole is an athlete but someone throwing a shotput is.....what?

Nobody said NBA players arent athletic. I said they arent just going to be great at anything because they can play basketball. The great athletes would be great at most things that let them take advantage. You get to the point you act like Brad Miller is is gonna be some great tennis player because of his speed(....) and athletic ability you are just not thinking it out.

At 18 I was probably more athletic than the great majority of the planet(think it out...how many people by percentage are even 6' and can touch a rim? Most people are women and of the men most arer short and many are out of shape).

And I wasnt anything to be amazed by.

There are millions of NBA level athletes.

Just not NBA level ball players.

There are NBA players a lot of ISH would run circles around just as athletes. Not the Vince Carters.....

But Vince Carter was like 12% god.

You take the top 10 athletes on ISH and put them against prime Jeff Hornacek hes gonna drop 80 if he feels like it.

Drop all 11 into a decathlon?

That is a very different matter.

Hes taller than me and never dunked. Why should I assume hes more athletic than my cousin Brian who could dunk at 5'11'', was quicker than I ever was, and busted my ass running hills?

Because Jeff can shoot his ass off and handle the ball?

Im not saying he cant have some hard to quantify traits like hand eye coordination, reflexes, and so on.

Im saying....you measure their physical ability in conventional fashion you wont find that Jeff is something amazing.

He is an amazing basketball player.

Not an amazing athlete. He may well have a great heartrate....stamina...be quick over short bursts...fine.

We have all heard the stories of NBA players being tested and being found to have almost inhuman reflexes. Wouldn't surprise me to learn Jeff is one of them. He might bust my ass in dodgeball.

But he isn't out jumping my cousin, he isn't out running him till we get to long distances, and if hes stronger I suspect it isn't weightroom strength we could measure. So why would I assume hes naturally more athletic?

Because he worked at basketball all his life and my cousin started smoking, never played for a team, and now can barely get rim? How do I not assume most of the difference is the immense work put in by one and not the other?

It just doesn't make sense to ignore. It also doesn't make sense to ignore that Jeff was probably in the top 1% in the world height wise. Only 14% of America is even 6 feet tall....so imagine the worldwide percentage of people over 6'4'' when you factor in 3 billion Asians who tend to be shorter than Americans?

They are gifted with height in almost all cases.

And Jeff clearly was.

Doesn't mean hes gonna be a better outfielder than me if hes slower, weaker, and cant outjump me.

I bet he would be a better hitter just off the hand eye...

But hes not running down some balls I could get at 17-18. And he isn't winning a dunk contest either. So im not going to assume hes just....some athletic specimen. I respect the work he put in and I did not. And I leave it at that.

[ripthekik]

Jesus, kblaze u couldn't make the nba even if u practice 18 hrs a day, give it up.

[Kblaze8855]

I did give it up clearly. I never even put in the effort. Not giving up is why an awful lot of the non freaks are there.

Humans are negative by nature. Every NBA story by the little guys is full of "They all said I couldnt...." stories. Gilbert Arenas wore 0 because thats how many minutes his friends said he would play in HS...and college...and when he went in the second round in the NBA they said it again. People generally don't support each other. A guy will tell his best friend he cant do something and not even see a problem with it. Of course the internet where people have devolved into little but haters who say outlandish things because they don't have to deal with people face to face would be full of people saying what cant be done.

If Steph Curry never played the game, posted a picture of himself, and said "I could have made it if I tried" every single poster here would clown him and tell him how impossible it is.

The only reason we know it isn't....is because he did it.

There are hundreds of thousands of people with the athletic ability who simply started working normal jobs, never cared about sports, or just got discouraged by the hard work needed.

There are a lot of pro athletes who are simply not that special genetics wise.

As I said years ago...

If Herschel Walker can decide after being a fat kid who lost a race to his sister to just work out like a psycho till he turned into Superman im not buying that hard work isn't a huge factor. And probably the #1 one.

[El Kabong]

I'm really good at giving high fives, cheering and handing people towels. I still think I have what it takes to make it in the NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

Well ill let him tell it:




At 15, he said he "started working out after watching 'Love Connection' and started doing push-ups and sit-ups," he said. "I started doing it on my own -- that gave me confidence."

As he developed into an athlete, his interests varied from two-man bobsledding to ballet.

"When I started out as little kid, I didn't say I just want to run football. I wanted to be a great athlete," he said. "It's mind over matter. You got to work at it. You can't assume you're a great football player so you'll win in bobsledding. It doesn't mean you don't have to work."



But im sure he was the only fat kid who could start doing 750 pushups in the morning and 2000 situps at night along with chin-ups and jumping rope so people would stop picking on him for his appearance and stutter.

If some other pudgy kid started working out like Batman and eating like a bird he would stay fat and never be athletic.

It isn't in his blood. So 4 hours of working out a day wouldn't do anything for him....

[ripthekik]

I see your point about some of us having hidden athletic potentials and never maximizing them. Im good in a lot of sports, and i often wonder what happens if i spend all my time focusing on that sport, would i make it to allstate level? National level? Im not talking basketball. Im talking about things like bowling, swimming, tennis, etc.

But for bball, could i have made it if i tried my best? Prob not. Im skilled but am limited by my height at 6', and my athleticism. When you get to the nba, you need size, athleticism, and hard work.

Size stopped most of us. Athleticism is the second. Hard work is the after thought.

You didnt give up because you didnt work for it. You gave up because you found out you weren't big enough, strong enough, and fast enough. We all learn this lesson in our lives, sooner or later. Sorry, bro.

[Kblaze8855]

So tell me....

Steph Curry.

You think hes bigger, stronger, and faster than me?

Or is his dad just a basketball lifer who had all his sons shooting jumpers at age 3?

Size didn't stop me. Im bigger than almost everyone I know and im about the size of a normal NBA point. Athletic ability didn't stop me. And work may not have been enough...but who knows?

You say you are about 6'. That alone makes you unusual.

Lets talk about you not me.

Lets say you dedicated your life to your physical condition like Walker did.

Tell me...what do you think happens?

You wake up at 5:30 and do 750-1500 pushups. OR as many as you could do to start...and get to that level by sticking to it every day of your life. You do 300 pull ups. You do 2000 situps. You jump rope for 3 hours.

Think it works for him but you would stay you?

Im not asking if you win the Heisman.

Im asking how different do you believe you could be if you ignored your assumptions about what you could do and worked out like he did with no evidence you could succeed,

[ripthekik]

So tell me....

Steph Curry.

You think hes bigger, stronger, and faster than me?

Or is his dad just a basketball lifer who had all his sons shooting jumpers at age 3?

Size didn't stop me. Im bigger than almost everyone I know and im about the size of a normal NBA point. Athletic ability didn't stop me. And work may not have been enough...but who knows?

You say you are about 6'. That alone makes you unusual.

Lets talk about you not me.

Lets say you dedicated your life to your physical condition like Walker did.

Tell me...what do you think happens?

You wake up at 5:30 and do 750-1500 pushups. OR as many as you could do to start...and get to that level by sticking to it every day of your life. You do 300 pull ups. You do 2000 situps. You jump rope for 3 hours.

Think it works for him but you would stay you?

Im not asking if you win the Heisman.

Im asking how different do you believe you could be if you ignored your assumptions about what you could do and worked out like he did with no evidence you could succeed,
For bball or for other sports? If i worked out like him i prob still wouldn't be good enough to go pro for bball or football. The athleticism ia the difference here. If i start at 0 and i work til 10. Someone who starts at 5 will work to 15. Our genetic base plays a part. Hard work dont give you everything.

You have size over curry, but do you have athleticism over him too really? He can dunk, so hes got some hops. So you have higher vert than him, run faster than him, and have better eye hand coordination than him? Id say not.

You say curry might not be special if it wasnt his dad making him shoot at 3. Well, have you wonder whether it was because of the genes from his dad?

[ripthekik]

And btw, you do know there are probably millions of ppl who have actually dedicated their lives to playing bball and not making it right?? Look at all the division 1 players. Im sure most of them work their ass off, and work even harder to try to reach the nba.

Tons of nba sons whose dad trained from young ages also couldn't make it. Pat ewing jr is now in europe. Early training and hard work can only get u so far.

I think youre saying all this almost as if the nba players are the only ones who worked hard, and we all gave up early. Not true, each year there are thousands of college players who cant make it despite being the best during hs, despite working their ass off.

Its the best of the best of the best of the best. Top 300 out of 6 billion. Youll need a hell lot more than hard work.

[Kblaze8855]

It isn't top 300 out of 6 billion. Its the top 300 out of those who put the work in. Im sure 90% of the world never touched a basketball. Which is part of my assumption that we cant say those who have...and did it all day for 10-15 years....just have more natural ability than people not trying.

Steph Curry isnt witchcraft and he isn't blessed with some unearthly athletic ability. Its a guy who has been around the game since before he had memories.

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/stephen-curry-dell-curry-don-nelson-mitch-richmond.jpg




His dad didn't force the game on him but....come on. His dad is a great shooter....hes been shooting since he was 4. And his brother came right behind him.

You don't just be born a great shooter. Ray Allens kids will not shoot like him if they don't take 600,000 jumpers.

You can be born with genes to make you a lot of things.

Born to shoot?

Id need to see some serious research into that.

He had the genes to make him tall. So did I. I have 7 footers in my family. My mom was a HS center. Not just huge but she was like 5'10'' or 5'11'' which makes her probably top 2-3% for women. Shes like 5'9'' now and shes old and shrinking.

I suspect he was born with no more athletic potential than I was. But I never put in the work and my father wasn't there to teach me every trick and give me every advantage.

Doesn't mean if Dale Ellis was my dad id be in the NBA. But I suspect that being the same person...if Dale Ellis, Earl Monroe, or Walt Frazier were my father....id have been pushed more than I was.

When we have two guys of similar build....one watches ball....one plays it daily for 15 years while shooting 2 hours a night.


One is much better than the other.

How do we ignore the whale in the swimming pool?

One lived for the game and the other didn't.

Not saying there aren't other factors.

But how is that not the #1 factor?

[DCL]

there are only 450 spots in the nba.

to put that small number into perspective, there are more usd billionaires in the world than there are nba players.

what were your realistic chances of making it? the probability's so small that it's practically zero.

[Kblaze8855]

Cant really compare those two. There are billionaires literally born into it. Just....get it from their parents literally. The Miami Heat owners father started carnival cruise lines so he gets to be rich. You make yourself into an NBA player and there is nobody who can give it to you even if you have the genes.

Ok well....maybe if you are 7'5'' and somewhat mobile.

But you know what I mean.

Also...anyone know if Robin and Brook Lopez are identical? I know they don't look exactly alike but....not all identical twins stay identical. Workout differences. Hair. Diet. Things like that.

If so....what would you say accounts for one being a star and the other being just....ok?

I know the Morris twins are identical but one is better.

I knew a couple sets of twins. One set Chris and Christopher...one was pretty good on the court the other was just athletic.

The other set....both played soccer but one was a lot better.

I need to find some identical twins on the black market and mold them into athletes for my research/

[catquickspider]

I always ask myself that question when I see people above 6 feet tall. Some people are just not talented enough even if they work hard.

[CeltsGarlic]

yeah, I think I could have made it somewhere, but the one thing that stopped me was that I was way too small in size and physically when it mattered, as I started growing much later than everyone.. Right now Im 6ft at 21 and growing. I practiced during summer at least for 4-6h a day, maybe even more.. Right now I have great fundamentals, but its just too late..

[retaxis]

Work ethic is 95%. And thats not just working on your game but working on becoming mentally strong as well. I am not surprised the 24/7 trolls on this forum would have no idea what work ethic means since they do not have the drive or coping mechanisms to achieve or even understand what it takes.

[Fresh Kid]

Work ethic is 95%. And thats not just working on your game but working on becoming mentally strong as well. I am not surprised the 24/7 trolls on this forum would have no idea what work ethic means since they do not have the drive or coping mechanisms to achieve or even understand what it takes.
do u even have tha drive??:biggums:

[retaxis]

For people who could not make a career of pro basketball, Basketball becomes an interest/hobby just like playing an instrument, art, history, reading novels, golfing etc. It is only an issue when people who have no activities of producitivity (work/study) as a result causes them to have little identity/meaning/structure in their life. A lack of confidence/belonging/feeling of worth causes various resident posters (e.g. 9erempire, Jabbar, Wilds etc) to find and invest meaning into other activities such as leisure activities. This causes conflict because while most people can relate their confidence and self worth to who they are as a person and the work they do (identity), some of our resident posters do not have this and thus treat what otherwise is a leisure/hobby as their identity and source of confident. This of course is not a stable pillar of confidence and is similarly to e.g. being proud of your race or what country your from (nothing you have accomplished personally).

[Cleverness]

Some people have the shot and some people don't. Shaq probably shot over 1,000,000 FTs and he still ain't good at it. Meanwhile, I haven't shot nearly as many, and I'm around 80% from the line.

It's not a coincidence the average height is 6'7".

[avonbarksdale]

kblaze you are the stupidest. yes steph curry is better at everything than you, i'm sorry

[Kblaze8855]

Shaq is a perfectly good Ft shooter he just isn't in games. He like all the other awful Ft shooters has a mental block. Remember the Lakers season practice records coming out showing that Dwight shot 82% in practice? That isn't unusual.....


kblaze you are the stupidest. yes steph curry is better at everything than you, i'm sorry

You need to do only one thing to prove that false.

Go to any gym in America with free weights. Watch normal people work out. See people smaller than me benching 200 warming up. Then go check the predraft workout numbers of NBA players. I was benching 185 more times than Curry could in the predraft when I was 16.

Tyreke Evans did it 7 times. I could probably do 225 more times than Curry could do 185. You don't need to believe me. Ask anyone playing high school football what their junior and senior year linebackers bench then get back to me.

If only for being so lanky NBA players are not terribly strong. And Curry is pretty much a high schooler from a physical standpoint. My then 17 year old little cousin Emilio:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/images.berecruited.com/photos/athletes/medium/74134470.jpg


http://s3.amazonaws.com/images.berecruited.com/photos/athletes/medium/67286669.jpg

was outperforming recorded records of Currys physical ability in my damn basement.

He does sets with 225 now and hes 19 and barely even working out anymore.

These are not superhumans.

They are great basketball players. But there are a million NBA level athletes.

If you think Curry is just some physical beast the likes of which doesn't exist outside professional sports go down to Cornell park in Chicago or even Mt.Pleasant in tiny ass Greenville south Carolina and be blown away because it sounds like you have never seen sports outside tv.

[chocolatethunder]

Some people have the shot and some people don't. Shaq probably shot over 1,000,000 FTs and he still ain't good at it. Meanwhile, I haven't shot nearly as many, and I'm around 80% from the line.

It's not a coincidence the average height is 6'7".
In what league do you shoot 80%? Because if for some reason you're confusing shooting at the gym or playground and thinking that that is in some way close to playing in the NBA and getting slammed into and bodied up by the best of the best and then having to shoot a FT, then you're way off base. Dudes who shoot 75% from the line during a game shoot in the 90s% at practice and 90% shooters don't miss in practice. Most nba players will shoot about 70% on their jumpshots in practice from anywhere on the floor. A good shooter will shoot about 90% when he's practicing.

[IGOTGAME]

Curry has a natural touch and coordination that is off the charts. Curry was a better shooter than 95 % of the lg at age 17. By that time he had put up hundreds of thousands of shots less than NBA players. The main difference was his innate talent for shooting.

[IGOTGAME]

In what league do you shoot 80%? Because if for some reason you're confusing shooting at the gym or playground and thinking that that is in some way close to playing in the NBA and getting slammed into and bodied up by the best of the best and then having to shoot a FT, then you're way off base. Dudes who shoot 75% from the line during a game shoot in the 90s% at practice and 90% shooters don't miss in practice. Most nba players will shoot about 70% on their jumpshots in practice from anywhere on the floor. A good shooter will shoot about 90% when he's practicing.
Not everyone is like this. I shot between 78-82% in college and about the same in practice. This wasn't on limited attempts either.

Obviously it would be higher if I shot in blocks of 100 but that isn't very helpful IMO because that isn't similar to a game. I can legit shot better than Shaquille with my left hand or granny style.

[imnew09]

my genetic stopped me. Standing 5' 8 :cry: