Make a compelling argument for Lebron >>> Duncan

[sportjames23]

Aiight, ISH has debated Lebron vs Kobe to death. We've heard all the arguments for either player, so leave that shit outta this.

But make your argument, Bron fans, for Bron over Duncan. Many consider Duncan the GOAT PF (I personally think of him as a center) and have had him in the Top 10 players of all time for years now.

So how do you have Lebron over him?

[Lebronxrings]

First off both are better than kobe, let's get that out of the way.

Lebron is better all around than Duncan.

[Nilocon165]

Amount of times they came back from a 1-3 deficit to beat a 73 win team

Lebron: 1
Duncan: 0

[SpaceJam]

First off both are better than kobe, let's get that out of the way.

Lebron is better all around than Duncan.

Compelling argument

Best I've seen, much facts, many stats

10/10 would read again

Say no more, it's been decided

[Sarcastic]

Much better individual stats, and accolades.
Eye test.
Was able to win back to back.

[FKAri]

Naturally, big men have more control of the game defensively but little guys can control the game more offensively since they have the ball in their hands and are responsible for the plays and decision making on that end.

Lebron's advantage is that he has the best of both worlds. He has big guy like help defense and PG like control over a game. Duncan's a better interior presence but Lebron's defensive versatility is outstanding and in the modern NBA versatility seems to matter more and more (PnR defense is a premium and Lebron >>> Duncan there). Duncan's a better iso scorer but again in the modern NBA its easier to shut a big guy down and force the ball out of his hands. Lebron ball handling means its hard to get the ball out of his hands. His balance of scoring/playmaking means defenses don't know if they should force him to be a playmaker or a scorer (he has shown success with both).

I do put Lebron slightly over Duncan, mostly because of the demands of the modern era. Lebron's borderline top 5 for me.

[LeBird]

Easy.

Jordan > Duncan.
Lebron > Jordan.
∴ Lebron > Duncan.

[NBAGOAT]

Better offensive player than Duncan. Better scorer and playmaker even though some of that is just due to them playing different positions. Duncan is much more important on defense and better rebounder for the same reason. Better peak(13 or 09 vs 03). Better prime too imo even though Duncan's is longer since Lebron has more top end years. You could argue 09.12 and 13 are all better than Duncan's peak in 03. I take Lebron over Duncan as a playoff performer too even with his bad moments, he has more great series on his resume.

[IllegalD]

Kobe and Duncan are both above LeBron, as Barkley said this morning.

Both have superior Finals records (Kobe: 5-2) (Duncan:5-1) while playing in an elite conference and taking their lumps with one team their whole careers.

:lebronamazed:

LeBron is 3-4 playing in a historically sh*t Leastern Conference, signing 1-year contracts so he can have maximum freedom to abandon sinking ships and get the most help possible (Cavs had the highest payroll in NBA history). And he's not done yet. Just imagine how many all-star/HOF teammates he will have played with in his career through his own machination. He already said he wants to team up with CP3, Melo and Wade (again) before he retires.

Just imagine how many rings Jordan/Kobe/Duncan would have if they approached their careers that same p*ssy, short-cutting way. :eek:

:lebroncry: :dancin

[Quickening]

Kobe and Duncan are both above LeBron, as Barkley said this morning.

Both have superior Finals records (Kobe: 5-2) (Duncan:5-1) while playing in an elite conference and taking their lumps with one team their whole careers.


3>2 :applause:

[bigkingsfan]

Easy.

Jordan > Duncan.
Lebron > Jordan.
∴ Lebron > Duncan.

THIS

[Dray n Klay]

:( :cry:


:hammertime: :hammertime: :djparty


KEEP MELTING DOWN! :lol

[masonanddixon]

Didn't a 37 year old Duncan basically creampie lebron???

Just imagine 2002-2003 Duncan against these Cavs. He's put up 42-18-6 a game.

[Jameerthefear]

OP is the ****ing Sage Steele of ISH. Sets up discussions/makes threads and then immediately shuts the f*ck up because he has nothing important nor intelligent to say.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Its a close battle, but at this moment Duncan still have a tiny edge. I have Duncan at #6 right now while Lebron is #7. Duncan has same number of FMVP/alpha rings, more rings in general, superior finals winning%(5/6 vs 3/7), and better matchup record(2-1 series and 11-5 overall record). Lebron has better stats and more regular season MVP. Its kinda like a toss up, but I give Duncan a tiny edge due to matchup record.

[Megabox!]

Didn't a 37 year old Duncan basically creampie lebron???.
Idk what the f*ck you've been snorting but no, no he did not.

[masonanddixon]

Idk what the f*ck you've been snorting but no, no he did not.

Oh wait he was 38. Spanked lebron in 5 games. This just after needing one of the biggest ref jobs ever to get past 8th seeded dirk and monta and d leaguers in the first round.

[ArbitraryWater]

OP is the ****ing Sage Steele of ISH. Sets up discussions/makes threads and then immediately shuts the f*ck up because he has nothing important nor intelligent to say.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Xoush]

Kobe and Duncan are both above LeBron, as Barkley said this morning.

Both have superior Finals records (Kobe: 5-2) (Duncan:5-1) while playing in an elite conference and taking their lumps with one team their whole careers.

:lebronamazed:

LeBron is 3-4 playing in a historically sh*t Leastern Conference, signing 1-year contracts so he can have maximum freedom to abandon sinking ships and get the most help possible (Cavs had the highest payroll in NBA history). And he's not done yet. Just imagine how many all-star/HOF teammates he will have played with in his career through his own machination. He already said he wants to team up with CP3, Melo and Wade (again) before he retires.

Just imagine how many rings Jordan/Kobe/Duncan would have if they approached their careers that same p*ssy, short-cutting way. :eek:

:lebroncry: :dancin
Where did he say this?

[Rocketswin2013]

OP is the ****ing Sage Steele of ISH. Sets up discussions/makes threads and then immediately shuts the f*ck up because he has nothing important nor intelligent to say.
:oldlol:

[IllegalD]

Where did he say this?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15055866/lebron-james-ponders-superteam-carmelo-anthony-chris-paul-dwyane-wade


"I really hope that, before our career is over, we can all play together. ... At least one, maybe one or two seasons -- me, Melo, D-Wade, CP -- we can get a year in," James told Bleacher Report in February for a feature story on James' and Anthony's relationship that was published Wednesday. "I would actually take a pay cut to do that."

In the article, James said he has harbored thoughts about that potential lineup but declined to go into much deeper detail. Asked after the Cavaliers' 113-104 win over the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday whether he has shared those thoughts with Anthony, Paul or Wade, James hinted he has.

"I mean, we've had plenty of conversations," James said. "We've been together for almost 15 years, so we've had plenty of conversations."

[Chadwin]

I can't. Duncan actually carried a team to a title without any other all-nba or all-stars still in their prime.

[Dray n Klay]

I can't. Duncan actually carried a team to a title without any other all-nba or all-stars.

LeBron did the same thing this year dumbass :oldlol: :banana:

[kurple]

Much better individual stats, and accolades.
Eye test.
Was able to win back to back.
None of the first 3 are true tho

[PJR]

LeBron is the better and more versatile basketball talent, but starting from scratch, I'd rather have Duncan on my team, all things considered.

Duncan's team/franchise first attitude, along with his brilliance on the court is what franchises salivate over.

You gotta deal with too much diva shit with LeBron.

[Chadwin]

LeBron did the same thing this year dumbass :oldlol: :banana:

Kyrie was all-star in 2015.

[Fire Colangelo]

Kyrie was all-star in 2015.

And DRob was an all star in 2001.

[tamaraw08]

Kobe and Duncan are both above LeBron, as Barkley said this morning.

Both have superior Finals records (Kobe: 5-2) (Duncan:5-1) while playing in an elite conference and taking their lumps with one team their whole careers.

:lebronamazed:

LeBron is 3-4 playing in a historically sh*t Leastern Conference, signing 1-year contracts so he can have maximum freedom to abandon sinking ships and get the most help possible (Cavs had the highest payroll in NBA history). And he's not done yet. Just imagine how many all-star/HOF teammates he will have played with in his career through his own machination. He already said he wants to team up with CP3, Melo and Wade (again) before he retires.

Just imagine how many rings Jordan/Kobe/Duncan would have if they approached their careers that same p*ssy, short-cutting way. :eek:

:lebroncry: :dancin
THIS!. :rockon:

Lebron I think just cemented himself as GOAT SF but him abandoning his teamS to join legit stars somewhat tarnishes his reputation.
We are not talking about just good players here. You leave your team to join with future HOF'S in DWade and Bosh plus great support players like Allen, Battier etc going 2-2, you then abandon them bec Wade has aged and then join a rising rookie of the year Irving, hardnosed defender and elite rebounding in Thompson PLUS a player who averaged like 22 pts, 13 rebs in Kevin Love.
Lastly, we forget how GREAT Duncan was esp his first 7 years.

[hateraid]

Easy.

Jordan > Duncan.
Lebron > Jordan.
∴ Lebron > Duncan.

Easily the most simple and straight forward answer.

/thread

[Boogaboog]

Kobe and Duncan are both above LeBron, as Barkley said this morning.

Both have superior Finals records (Kobe: 5-2) (Duncan:5-1) while playing in an elite conference and taking their lumps with one team their whole careers.

:lebronamazed:

LeBron is 3-4 playing in a historically sh*t Leastern Conference, signing 1-year contracts so he can have maximum freedom to abandon sinking ships and get the most help possible (Cavs had the highest payroll in NBA history). And he's not done yet. Just imagine how many all-star/HOF teammates he will have played with in his career through his own machination. He already said he wants to team up with CP3, Melo and Wade (again) before he retires.

Just imagine how many rings Jordan/Kobe/Duncan would have if they approached their careers that same p*ssy, short-cutting way. :eek:

:lebroncry: :dancin

You're only half-right, as Kobe and Duncan indeed showed more character by never leaving, but Kobe started his career on Shaq's Lakers, and Duncan with David Robinson. You can't really compare beginning your NBA career with a future hall-of-famer teammate to LeBron hopping onto the 17 win Cavaliers. No player in history could win a ring with LeBron's pre-Kyrie help in Cleveland.

[HurricaneKid]

Is this seriously a question?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=duncati01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

There are VERY FEW things Timmy has advantages in. Timmy has played 4 extra seasons but LeBron already leads him in WS, VORP, etc by staggering amounts. Even if you just look at playoff WS/VORP, etc its not close.

So then we are just down to the "how many Championships" argument. And given that Timmy has been outplayed in Finals by Manu, TP, AND Kawhi at various points it seems a pretty poor leap to risk. And given just how superior LeBron's statlines are in the playoffs, that he has more MVPs, we are really approaching the fact that it is Duncan that doesn't have an argument.

[LeBird]

Is this seriously a question?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=duncati01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

There are VERY FEW things Timmy has advantages in. Timmy has played 4 extra seasons but LeBron already leads him in WS, VORP, etc by staggering amounts. Even if you just look at playoff WS/VORP, etc its not close.

So then we are just down to the "how many Championships" argument. And given that Timmy has been outplayed in Finals by Manu, TP, AND Kawhi at various points it seems a pretty poor leap to risk. And given just how superior LeBron's statlines are in the playoffs, that he has more MVPs, we are really approaching the fact that it is Duncan that doesn't have an argument.

:applause:

[tmacattack33]

Lebron's had more years as the best player in the league.

Really I can just stop right there.




But since everyone likes to talk about Finals...

- Lebron has taken worse teams to the Finals.

- Lebron has done better than expected in the Finals, going 3 for 7 when he was the favorite in only 2 of 7. I don't think Duncan has done this.

- Lebron has been his teams best player in at least 5 of his 7 Finals. Duncan? ...3 out of 6 off the top of my head.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe and Duncan are both above LeBron, as Barkley said this morning.

Both have superior Finals records (Kobe: 5-2) (Duncan:5-1) while playing in an elite conference and taking their lumps with one team their whole careers.

:lebronamazed:

LeBron is 3-4 playing in a historically sh*t Leastern Conference, signing 1-year contracts so he can have maximum freedom to abandon sinking ships and get the most help possible (Cavs had the highest payroll in NBA history). And he's not done yet. Just imagine how many all-star/HOF teammates he will have played with in his career through his own machination. He already said he wants to team up with CP3, Melo and Wade (again) before he retires.

Just imagine how many rings Jordan/Kobe/Duncan would have if they approached their careers that same p*ssy, short-cutting way. :eek:

:lebroncry: :dancin
You literally didn't mention basketball..