MJ is great but has he ever faced a 73-9 Juggernaut team and won?

[SavageMode]

MJ played in a weak era with no competition. MJ being the MVP for 6 years.

Meanwhile Lebron just decapitated the back to back MVP/Unanimous 2X MVP and his team with 3 All Stars that laid havoc on this more athletic league compared to the weak 90s.

Lets face it. This league is way more athletic than the 90s. Better nutrition, better technological advancements, better diets = better players.

Lebron beat a reigning MVP in the Finals with a juggernaut 73-9 team, down 3-1. While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.

All facts.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well its not just the record that matters, its also about the context. The Warriors may have won 73 games this year, but they are no better than a 63 wins team in the stronger era(90s and 00s).

[SavageMode]

Magic Johnson, Bird, all the well known greats exited their primes in the 90s where Jordan could feast on a weak era of no competition.

[Bawkish]

juggernaut team?

the one that OKC got exposed first? on the verge of being eliminated?

that "juggernaut"?

[LeBird]

Well its not just the record that matters, its also about the context. The Warriors may have won 73 games this year, but they are no better than a 63 wins team in the stronger era(90s and 00s).
LOL @ 90s or even 00s being stronger.

[sportjames23]

LOL @ 90s or even 00s being stronger.

LOL @ you even knowing shit about 90s or 00s.

[Bawkish]

MJ played in a weak era with no competition. MJ being the MVP for 6 years.

Meanwhile Lebron just decapitated the back to back MVP/Unanimous 2X MVP and his team with 3 All Stars that laid havoc on this more athletic league compared to the weak 90s.

Lets face it. This league is way more athletic than the 90s. Better nutrition, better technological advancements, better diets = better players.

Lebron beat a reigning MVP in the Finals with a juggernaut 73-9 team, down 3-1. While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.

All facts.

but low on basketball IQ & fundamentals

[LeBird]

LOL @ you even knowing shit about 90s or 00s.

Go back to watching Space Jam kid.

[SpaceJam]

Go back to watching Space Jam kid.

Keep me out of this please

[bigkingsfan]

Took them four tries just to beat the Pistons :yaohappy:

[3ball]

While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.


Jordan defeated 3 times more 50-win teams in his playoff career than Lebron, as pointed out by ESPN:

http://i.imgur.com/yz8FH5x.jpg





Lebron beat a 73-9 team


Jordan never beat a 73-win team, but he beat Shaq and Magic, who are better players than Lebron ever faced, let alone defeated.

Against Magic, Jordan guarded him for 14 of 20 quarters (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12376705&postcount=45) and dominated the matchup.. The closest Lebron had to this type of two-way challenge is Durant, who outscored him 33 to 29 and outshot him 55% to 50%.

Jordan also significantly outplayed Drexler with 36 ppg on 51%, compared to Drexler's 25 ppg on 43%.. Given the massive gaps between MJ and Magic/Drexler, what would he do to Lebron?.. Magic and Drexler looked pretty good too before Jordan started whizzing by them.





This league is way more athletic than the 90s.



The wings from MJ's era match today's era man-for-man:


...2000-2014.................1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg), Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis



^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars

[Bawkish]

Took them four tries just to beat the Pistons :yaohappy:

Lebron couldn't even beat Jason Terry :lol

[bigkingsfan]

Lebron couldn't even beat Jason Terry :lol
Jordan couldn't even beat prime Danny Ainge. :roll:

[julizaver]

MJ played in a weak era with no competition. MJ being the MVP for 6 years.

Meanwhile Lebron just decapitated the back to back MVP/Unanimous 2X MVP and his team with 3 All Stars that laid havoc on this more athletic league compared to the weak 90s.

Lets face it. This league is way more athletic than the 90s. Better nutrition, better technological advancements, better diets = better players.

Lebron beat a reigning MVP in the Finals with a juggernaut 73-9 team, down 3-1. While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.

All facts.

OK, Lebron made the history and do something special. He fullfilled the prophecy and now he is the King (as his fans called him almost from day 1), finally proved all his doubters wrong, breaking the loser/choker myth.

What I can disagree is about diminishing MJ's accomplisments. In fact he faced his tougher opposition in the EAST and in the face of Knicks, who were the best defensive team and forced Bulls to G7. Their rivalry together with the Pistons rivalry was more intense than any of Bulls 6 Finals - something Jordan has no fault.

And no - Lebron will never surpases MJ in terms of greatness, although he is the best player of his generation and the closest to Jordan in terms of greatness (sorry Kobe fans/stans).

[Bawkish]

Jordan couldn't even beat prime Danny Ainge. :roll:

Lebron: 17.8 ppg, .478 fg%

Terry: 18 ppg, .494 fg%

:lol

[bigkingsfan]

Lebron: 17.8 ppg, .478 fg%

Terry: 18 ppg, .494 fg%

:lol
Danny torch Jordan on 55% shooting vs 46%. Swept him twice. :lol

[sportjames23]

Jordan couldn't even beat prime Danny Ainge. :roll:


I'm sorry, was Ainge old when he played for Portland in '92 and Phoenix in '93?

Whereas Lebron's been cooked by Duncan when Tim was using a cane.

[DirkNowitzki41]

lebrons the GOAT. and im not even kidding. People can say what they want to, but he is.

People just see MJ as flawless because it's been so long since anyone has watched him. They forget ALL the bad and strictly remember the good.

[bigkingsfan]

I'm sorry, was Ainge old when he played for Portland in '92 and Phoenix in '93?

Whereas Lebron's been cooked by Duncan when Tim was using a cane.
13th and 14th year as a journeyman is prime now? Took Lebron on his 2nd try to beat the Spurs. MJ never beat the Celtics and took four time to finally beat an aging bad boy team. :kobe:

[Bawkish]

Danny torch Jordan on 55% shooting vs 46%. Swept him twice. :lol

MJ is the main offensive option, everyone is guarding him

Jason Terry is not even the MVP of that team & yet still outplayed LBJ :lol

what a joke :lol

[sportjames23]

MJ is the main offensive option, everyone is guarding him

Jason Terry is not even the MVP of that team & yet still outplayed LBJ :lol

what a joke :lol


Got 'em!

[Bawkish]

13th and 14th year as a journeyman is prime now? Took Lebron on his 2nd try to beat the Spurs. MJ never beat the Celtics and took four time to finally beat an aging bad boy team. :kobe:

you mean Ray Allen, right :lol

[bigkingsfan]

MJ is the main offensive option, everyone is guarding him

Jason Terry is not even the MVP of that team & yet still outplayed LBJ :lol

what a joke :lol
So Danny now held MJ to 46% shooting, talk about locked up. Should have just pass the ball. :eek:


you mean Ray Allen, right :lol
You mean the multiple white players that have saved MJ career.

[Bawkish]

So Danny now held MJ to 46% shooting, talk about locked up. Should have just pass the ball. :eek:

no, '86 Celtics held MJ to 46% shooting. Meanwhile, Terry held Lebron to .478 shooting :lol


You mean the multiple white players that have saved MJ career.

no one's saved MJ's career, especially in the Finals. OTOH, Lebron needed Ray Allen & Kyrie to secure his Fnals MVP :lol

[bigkingsfan]

no, '86 Celtics held MJ to 46% shooting. Meanwhile, Terry held Lebron to .478 shooting :lol



no one's saved MJ's career, especially in the Finals. OTOH, Lebron needed Ray Allen & Kyrie to secure his Fnals MVP :lol
Danny guarded MJ more than Terry on Lebron, nice try though.

Pippen alone has saved MJ on more occasions, while having to guard the best player, so MJ could slack off on defense,

[Bawkish]

Danny guarded MJ more than Terry on Lebron, nice try though.

Pippen alone has saved MJ on more occasions, while having to guard the best player, so MJ could slack off on defense,

Ainge guarding MJ is moot. MJ probably averaged 60 pts on him regardless

Pip never saved MJ's ass in the Finals, it's the other way around. Lebron needed his super friends to bail him out

[bigkingsfan]

Ainge guarding MJ is moot. MJ probably averaged 60 pts on him regardless

Pip never saved MJ's ass in the Finals, it's the other way around. Lebron needed his super friends to bail him out
60 points on 46% is not efficient. Celtics happily give him that, and won when Jordan went off. Even his 63 point game, he was only 22/41

Pippen practically allows Jordan to slack off on defense every single game, so he focus on one end. If that's not bailing someone out...

[fourkicks44]

lebrons the GOAT. and im not even kidding. People can say what they want to, but he is.

People just see MJ as flawless because it's been so long since anyone has watched him. They forget ALL the bad and strictly remember the good.

Oh please remind us, I dare you.

[Micku]

Wtf is this sh1t? Just bashing each other without the facts to back up sometimes! lol!

And Dennis Johnson, one of the best guard defenders, guarded MJ a lot. Ainge did too. So did Mchale. So did Bird. Nobody could stop MJ getting his.

[theaussieguy]

Wtf is this sh1t? Just bashing each other without the facts to back up sometimes! lol!

And Dennis Johnson, one of the best guard defenders, guarded MJ a lot. Ainge did too. So did Mchale. So did Bird. Nobody could stop MJ getting his.

1-9

[Gileraracer]

.... with 3 injured starters

[IllegalD]

Children, children, children...

This argument is moot, considering that no opponent is as formidable and legendary as the 2000s era Dynasty Popovich/Spurs that Kobe regularly faced and destroyed in the playoffs throughout his career.

You're talking about a 6 Finals, 5 championship dynasty lead by the greatest PF of all time (and a Top 5-10 GOAT) in Tim Duncan, and arguably the GOAT coach in Popovich. And one of the GOAT defensive teams. Facing one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time (Bowen)

The Twin Towers version (Duncan & Robinson), The Big 3 version (Duncan/Parker/Ginobili) which rivals Bird/McHale/Parish. It doesn't matter, he killed them all when it mattered most.

[Dray n Klay]

LeBron winning has ruined me psychologically. My life will never be the same. Oh and the black people keep stuffing me in lockers at school. :lebroncry:

:lebronamazed: :yaohappy: :hammertime: :hammertime:

[Xoush]

MJ played in a weak era with no competition. MJ being the MVP for 6 years.

Meanwhile Lebron just decapitated the back to back MVP/Unanimous 2X MVP and his team with 3 All Stars that laid havoc on this more athletic league compared to the weak 90s.

Lets face it. This league is way more athletic than the 90s. Better nutrition, better technological advancements, better diets = better players.

Lebron beat a reigning MVP in the Finals with a juggernaut 73-9 team, down 3-1. While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.

All facts.

stopped reading right there

[sportjames23]

.


This is where I stopped reading.

[Dray n Klay]

1-9

Agreed.

[Xoush]

This is where I stopped reading.

I guess you are more experienced than me.

[sportjames23]

0-2.


I know.

[Sarcastic]

Took them four tries just to beat the Pistons :yaohappy:

Yea let's pretend the Pistons weren't a mini dynasty. They won back to back, and nearly 3 peated. They were better than just about any team Lebron lost to.

[diamenz]

oh boy, more athletic. then it must be better!

[Rocketswin2013]

people will have to accept the fact that lebron just did something more impressive than anything jordan has ever done.

[red1]

MJ is great but has he ever faced a 73-9 Juggernaut team and won?
Hmm that's a great question. I'm not sure, let me go find out for you.

[red1]

Wow. So it looks like lebron is the ONLY PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY to beat a 73-9 team.

Un. Be. Leivable.

[Sarcastic]

Wow. So it looks like lebron is the ONLY PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY to beat a 73-9 team.

Un. Be. Leivable.

Pretty sure everyone on the Cavs beat a 73-9 team.

[Xoush]

Pretty sure everyone on the Cavs beat a 73-9 team.

What are you smoking mate, give me some.
Clearly it was mano a mano against Curry.

[red1]

Pretty sure everyone on the Cavs beat a 73-9 team.
Yeah, you're right. I didn't word that properly.

ONLY ALL-TIME GREAT IN NBA HISTORY to beat a 73-9 team.

Un. Be. Leivable.

[ClipperRevival]

MJ played in a weak era with no competition. MJ being the MVP for 6 years.

Meanwhile Lebron just decapitated the back to back MVP/Unanimous 2X MVP and his team with 3 All Stars that laid havoc on this more athletic league compared to the weak 90s.

Lets face it. This league is way more athletic than the 90s. Better nutrition, better technological advancements, better diets = better players.

Lebron beat a reigning MVP in the Finals with a juggernaut 73-9 team, down 3-1. While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.

All facts.

Stopped reading after first sentence.

[LeBird]

Yea let's pretend the Pistons weren't a mini dynasty. They won back to back, and nearly 3 peated. They were better than just about any team Lebron lost to.

Not the year they lost to the Bulls. They weren't even OKC level.


I don't like facts.

Ok

[Sarcastic]

Not the year they lost to the Bulls. They weren't even OKC level.



Ok


Talkin' bout the years they lost to the Pistons doe...

[LeBird]

Talkin' bout the years they lost to the Pistons doe...

People can't use the excuse that Jordan had weak teams because even if no one expected him to lead a weak team to the finals, you could reasonable expect a GOAT caliber player to improve his team's record significantly.

But he didn't. Despite his gaudy numbers, Jordan was a perennial loser until Pippen and Phil came. And he would have remained so without the perfect cast and he wouldn't have won as much in a more competitive league, even if he had them.

Lebron makes his team contenders by virtue of himself. He did it with Cleveland almost a decade ago in his youth and he's done it again here.

The myth that Jordan could do the same with the same resources needs to die. He couldn't even dream of it and he never did it in real life.

[Sarcastic]

People can't use the excuse that Jordan had weak teams because even if no one expected him to lead a weak team to the finals, you could reasonable expect a GOAT caliber player to improve his team's record significantly.

But he didn't. Despite his gaudy numbers, Jordan was a perennial loser until Pippen and Phil came. And he would have remained so without the perfect cast and he wouldn't have won as much in a more competitive league, even if he had them.

Lebron makes his team contenders by virtue of himself. He did it with Cleveland almost a decade ago in his youth and he's done it again here.

The myth that Jordan could do the same with the same resources needs to die. He couldn't even dream of it and he never did it in real life.


The needing Pippen/Phil thing is so overstated. The team started getting good in 88/89, before Phil took over, and before Pippen was a good player. They made it all the way to the ECF, with Pippen being the 4th best player for the Bulls in that series. In 1990, Pippen couldn't even handle the pressure, and got migraines.

[Hey Yo]

Go back to watching Space Jam kid.
:oldlol: 13yr old MJ stan ruined

[Bawkish]

People can't use the excuse that Jordan had weak teams because even if no one expected him to lead a weak team to the finals, you could reasonable expect a GOAT caliber player to improve his team's record significantly.

But he didn't. Despite his gaudy numbers, Jordan was a perennial loser until Pippen and Phil came. And he would have remained so without the perfect cast and he wouldn't have won as much in a more competitive league, even if he had them.

Lebron makes his team contenders by virtue of himself. He did it with Cleveland almost a decade ago in his youth and he's done it again here.

The myth that Jordan could do the same with the same resources needs to die. He couldn't even dream of it and he never did it in real life.

he got outplayed by Terry doe :lol

[jlip]

I may be missing a Finals somewhere, but the 57 win Cavs defeating the 73 win Warriors might qualify as numerically the greatest Finals upset in NBA history when considering win differential. They were separated by 16 wins. The next closest I can think of is the 1975 Finals where the 48 win Warriors defeated the 60 win Bullets. That was 12 games.

[bigkingsfan]

Yea let's pretend the Pistons weren't a mini dynasty. They won back to back, and nearly 3 peated. They were better than just about any team Lebron lost to.
Lebron would absolutely be crucify if he couldn't beat a team three straight times. Hell, he would have been this year losing to a 73 wins team, 2nd straight year. It's okay for Jordan though.

[oh the horror]

The amount of gymnastics you kids are going through to prop Lebron up as being better than Mike is astounding and a complete waste of time.



But keep going though. It's humorous to read.

[Height Freak]

Lets face it. This league is way more athletic than the 90s. Better nutrition, better technological advancements, better diets = better players.

Lebron beat a reigning MVP in the Finals with a juggernaut 73-9 team, down 3-1. While Jordan coasted against inferior competition.

All facts.

98% of this era top players are Betas, have low Basketball IQ and are basically soft competitors (all hugs and smiles with their pals from other teams).

[SexSymbol]

well first of all, the warriors that were in the finals was not the 73-9 team from the regular season, they had an injury affected curry, toying with their lineups and rhythm all throughout the playoffs because of it and then they lost their best defensive big mid-series and even Iggy got hurt.

[Height Freak]

well first of all, the warriors that were in the finals was not the 73-9 team from the regular season, they had an injury affected curry, toying with their lineups and rhythm all throughout the playoffs because of it and then they lost their best defensive big mid-series and even Iggy got hurt.


Injuries are part of the game and should not be an excuse to not deliver. Yes yo might get very unlucky but still, it's not an excuse.

Many NBA championship teams have dealt with big injuries to big players before or during the playoffs/finals and despite them not being 100% they delivered a championship.

[hiphopfan777]

LeBron James has huge asterisks, one was lockout, one was ray allen, this one he had a glue guy suspended, a center bogut didn't play, iguodada hurt his back. He just shoulders his way in . No moves like Shaq or Duncan . Has the worst shooting for a perimeter player today.

[hateraid]

This is where I stopped reading.
We all know. You're illiterate and can't read

[Nilocon165]

We all know. You're illiterate and can't read
:lebronamazed:

[Roundball_Rock]

The needing Pippen/Phil thing is so overstated. The team started getting good in 88/89, before Phil took over, and before Pippen was a good player.

We have real world data on this. Pippen missed 9 games in 1989. He was not even a starter for the first third of the season. What happened? They were 4-5 without him and 43-30 with him. They started the year 13-12 and then immediately won something like 9 of 11 when Pippen became a starter. In other words, we saw what they were without Pippen: another 0.500 team.


People can't use the excuse that Jordan had weak teams because even if no one expected him to lead a weak team to the finals, you could reasonable expect a GOAT caliber player to improve his team's record significantly.

But he didn't. Despite his gaudy numbers, Jordan was a perennial loser until Pippen and Phil came. And he would have remained so without the perfect cast and he wouldn't have won as much in a more competitive league, even if he had them.

Lebron makes his team contenders by virtue of himself. He did it with Cleveland almost a decade ago in his youth and he's done it again here.

The myth that Jordan could do the same with the same resources needs to die. He couldn't even dream of it and he never did it in real life.

:applause:


Not the year they lost to the Bulls. They weren't even OKC level.

Correct. They barely won 50 games that year--and that was good enough for the #2 seed. So they were the second best team in what was a weak conference that year, hence their ECF trip. The following year they were out in the first round.

[ArbitraryWater]

They won 50 in his rookie year with Pip avg 8ppg. Lets not act like Pippen was the catalyst.

[CuterThanRubio]

The 2016 Cavs and Warriors are the best teams I've ever seen, whoever won the title was bound to have that label bestowed upon them by knowledgeable analysts.

Jordan never faced competition half as strong.

Please remember that two of The Bulls championships were won during the shortened three point line era, and you cannot compare the harlem globetrotter NBA gimmick years to the titans of today's league!

[juju151111]

We have real world data on this. Pippen missed 9 games in 1989. He was not even a starter for the first third of the season. What happened? They were 4-5 without him and 43-30 with him. They started the year 13-12 and then immediately won something like 9 of 11 when Pippen became a starter. In other words, we saw what they were without Pippen: another 0.500 team.



:applause:



Correct. They barely won 50 games that year--and that was good enough for the #2 seed. So they were the second best team in what was a weak conference that year, hence their ECF trip. The following year they were out in the first round.
Mj at 35 with a messed up wrist was on pace for 50+ won woth no Pippen a a severely decling destracted rodman in 98. Mj beat a 57 win team in 89 has the underdog. Contenters my ass He only wemt to the finals once with Cle before he returned. The east was weak shit. He even loss to Magics with a better record and then lost to Celtics. Show me where LJ did something impressive in his forst stint in Cle. The east was weak shit. Then he ran to the heat.