Vernon Maxwell says Rockets would have beaten Jordan's Bulls

[Lebron23]

Vernon Maxwell was a tough dude. He was a huge part of the 1994 Rockets team who won the NBA title, and at one point ran into the stands to punch a fan who heckled him. He embodied 90's basketball for his toughness and willingness to pretty much throw down with anyone that wanted a piece of him. He was upset when the Rockets traded for Clyde Drexler in 1995, taking his minutes away which lead to him eventually being waived by the team after the 1995 title.

He hadn't returned to Houston until this week. As part of the Rockets' celebration of the 1995 championship team, he came back and visited with the team and his old teammates. He spoke with the media and he mentioned the most common controversy about those great Rockets teams: whether they could have beaten Jordan's Bulls if Jordan hadn't retired for two years.

"Google the times we played them. They couldn't beat us. (The Rockets) couldn't get past Seattle (in 1996), but if we had, we would have knocked off Chicago. They couldn't match up with us. One time, just one time, I wish I could have gotten a seven-game series with them. I wanted that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25116008/vernon-maxwell-says-rockets-would-have-beaten-jordans-bulls

[NBAGOAT]

Hakeem is a huge mismatch problem but no lol, the Rockets were too weak everywhere else. Stuff like this is why I never get mad when a player says our team would beat this other team, that's for fans to really argue. Part of the reasons guys are in the NBA is their confidence.

[chocolatethunder]

I actually agree and I'm 44 and saw all of those games. I'm pretty sure that I'm in the minority but that's how I feel.

[Goofsta Knicca]

Hakeem is a huge mismatch problem but no lol, the Rockets were too weak everywhere else. Stuff like this is why I never get mad when a player says our team would beat this other team, that's for fans to really argue. Part of the reasons guys are in the NBA is their confidence.

Mad Max was in Micheal's head. Not really, but there's an episode of Open Court where Kenny Smith said they had success against them in the regular season because Maxwell used to try to fight MJ every game. Then after the game he'd bring his kid up to him all decked out in Air Jordan apparel to sign. MJ was like wtf is wrong with this guy? :oldlol:

[scandisk_]

Mad Max was in Micheal's head. Not really, but there's an episode of Open Court where Kenny Smith said they had success against them in the regular season because Maxwell used to try to fight MJ every game. Then after the game he'd bring his kid up to him all decked out in Air Jordan apparel to sign. MJ was like wtf is wrong with this guy? :oldlol:

The Glove barely went into MJ's head but Mad Max :oldlol: dude was a freak

[Roundball_Rock]

Google the times we played them. They couldn't beat us.

That is true but misleading. The Rockets indeed did have a strong record against the early 90's Bulls when Hakeem was in his prime. This is attributed to the Bulls' weakness at center, consistently their weakest position in the 90's.

There are two problems with this, though. First, the Rockets did not reach the Finals other than 94' and 95'. Therefore those are the years to look at. Chicago actually fared well against the Rockets during the Rockets' and Hakeem's best years.

94' I: Rockets win 93-100--but Pippen missed that game.
94' II: Bulls win 82-76. Pippen was back at this point.

95' I: Rockets win 106-83.
95' II: Bulls win 100-81.

The above is in fact what happened when these teams played during those years. They split the series but Chicago went 2-1 when Pippen played. Why are we to believe, based on the small sample size available, that the Bulls would have done worse with MJ?

The second problem with this argument is the notion that the Bulls could not defend and beat teams with elite centers. This is demonstrably false. The Bulls beat Ewing, Daughtery on a perennial basis :oldlol: and also dispatched Mourning multiple times. Shaq won once and lost once against the Bulls but 95' was the weakest edition of any of the 1990-1998 Bulls since they had no legitimate PF. Combined, the Bulls won 6 games in those two series and the Magic 4.

The Rockets narrowly won numerous series during their 94' and 95' runs. They earned their rings but were arguably the weakest back-to-back champions in history. The notion that they could beat the greatest dynasty in modern basketball history, and perhaps of all-time, is a bit ridiculous, in my view.

[Smoke117]

That is true but misleading. The Rockets indeed did have a strong record against the early 90's Bulls when Hakeem was in his prime. This is attributed to the Bulls' weakness at center, consistently their weakest position in the 90's.

There are two problems with this, though. First, the Rockets did not reach the Finals other than 94' and 95'. Therefore those are the years to look at. Chicago actually fared well against the Rockets during the Rockets' and Hakeem's best years.

94' I: Rockets win 93-100--but Pippen missed that game.
94' II: Bulls win 82-76. Pippen was back at this point.

95' I: Rockets win 106-83.
95' II: Bulls win 100-81.

The above is in fact what happened when these teams played during those years. They split the series but Chicago went 2-1 when Pippen played. Why are we to believe, based on the small sample size available, that the Bulls would have done worse with MJ?

The second problem with this argument is the notion that the Bulls could not defend and beat teams with elite centers. This is demonstrably false. The Bulls beat Ewing, Daughtery on a perennial basis :oldlol: and also dispatched Mourning multiple times. Shaq won once and lost once against the Bulls but 95' was the weakest edition of any of the 1990-1998 Bulls since they had no legitimate PF. Combined, the Bulls won 6 games in those two series and the Magic 4.

The Rockets narrowly won numerous series during their 94' and 95' runs. They earned their rings but were arguably the weakest back-to-back champions in history. The notion that they could beat the greatest dynasty in modern basketball history, and perhaps of all-time, is a bit ridiculous, in my view.

The Rockets, Bulls, and Knicks were all around the same level in 94 without Jordan, so I find it hard to believe that, that Rockets team could beat the Bulls if you add back the best player in the world.

[eliteballer]

94 could go either way, 95 they probably would have considering 5 straight finals runs would have been asking a lot in terms of keeping attrition at bay, especially with a the roster shuffling needed to retool for the 2nd threepeat.

[Da_Realist]

Regular season wins don't mean anything. GSW went undefeated against OKC and CLE (5-0) during the regular season this year.

It would have been a hell of a matchup, though.

[HoopSuperstar]

H. Olajuwon
O. Thorpe
R. Horry
V. Maxwell
K. Smith

S. Cassell

That was one hell of a team.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Rockets, Bulls, and Knicks were all around the same level in 94 without Jordan, so I find it hard to believe that, that Rockets team could beat the Bulls if you add back the best player in the world.

Exactly. Those teams were all in the 55-58 win range and the Knicks played both the Rockets and Bulls in the playoffs. That isn't a perfect metric but it provides some data in addition to their records and head-to-head RS games during that period. Both the Knicks-Bulls and Knicks-Rockets series were razor thin and went 7 games. The Bulls actually outscored the Knicks in their series and I believe the Knicks did the same against the Rockets. So how could the Bulls lose when you add the arguable GOAT--at his very peak?

Moreover, just look at the Rocket's performance those years. They were a very good team. They deserved their championships. However, they were not a dominant team. They won 58 and 47 games. In 94' they needed 7 games to get out the second round. They were one shot away from losing in the Finals. In 95' they again went right to the edge, needed the (then) maximum 5 games to get out the first round and again needed 7 games to get out the second round.

Interestingly the team they twice needed 7 games to beat in the WCSF were the Phoenix Suns--the very team the Bulls defeated in the Finals prior to MJ's retirement.

[Kvnzhangyay]

I believe so too

[eliteballer]

Interestingly the team they twice needed 7 games to beat in the WCSF were the Phoenix Suns--the very team the Bulls defeated prior to MJ's retirement.


Eh, those Suns teams were even more stacked than the 93 team, and the 93 team had Ceballos out for the Finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

Eh, those Suns teams were even more stacked than the 93 team, and the 93 team had Ceballos out for the Finals.

Ceballos was a role player in 93', though. As to whether the 94' and 95' teams were more stacked that is debatable. The 93' team had a productive Richard Dumas and an old, but still contributing role player, in Tom Chambers. The 94' team lost them but gained AC Green. The 95' team had Danny Manning.

I would still say the 93' team was the best. It had Barkley in MVP form and that is why I pick them. Barkley was a top 3 player that year. That was his last top 5 season. In 94' Barkley got hurt and was no longer a top 5 player but rather a top 10 player in 94' and 95'. In terms of success, the 93' team was clearly the best. It won the most games and reached the Finals. It had the best record in the league. I can see an argument for the 95' team, though.

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u1QTfm_ZhM


Vernon Maxwell (51pts/30 in 4QT)

[PJR]

I remember Hakeem giving the Bulls WORK every time during the regular season matchups.

[Dragonyeuw]

The only version of MJ's Bulls they beat is 95 due to their paper-thin frontline, ultimately what did them in against Orlando. They wouldn't have beaten the Bulls in 94 if he hadn't retired.

[Stringer Bell]

1996 against the 72-10 Bulls? I don't think so.

1995 when Jordan came back? Yes. There's a reason the Bulls got eliminated by the Magic, and it was much more than Jordan's rust (which gets overblown).

The Bulls were weak with their interior defense. Horace Grant left and then killed the Bulls in that series. Jordan & Pippen had to expend extra energy trying to make up for this weakness. The Bulls got Rodman in the off-season, Jordan got more time to get used to playing with his new teammates, bulked up a bit and improved his already terrific post game and fadeaway.....and then you get a record-setting season.


The only version of MJ's Bulls they beat is 95 due to their paper-thin frontline, ultimately what did them in against Orlando.

Definitely.

Jordan's rust gets overblown. Now there's some truth to it, but it was probably more of Jordan just not being used to his teammates, and only having 17 regular season games to get used to them. As opposed to all of training camp and the pre-season like usual.

It's actually extremely impressive how much Jordan's legs improved from March 1995 when he first came back, to the playoffs. So much more explosiveness, with the first step and leaping ability. A lot of people would be surprised if they watched some of the games against the Magic, particularly games 2 (when he went back to 23), 3, and 5, at how spry he was.

[feyki]

For 95 ? Yes .. But 94 ? No .

[sportjames23]

I remember Hakeem giving the Bulls WORK every time during the regular season matchups.

I remember MJ doing the same to Houston. Some of his biggest games were against the Rockets. Too bad regular season matchups generally don't mean shit.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan's rust gets overblown. Now there's some truth to it, but it was probably more of Jordan just not being used to his teammates, and only having 17 regular season games to get used to them. As opposed to all of training camp and the pre-season like usual.

This is what "rust" is referring to. It incorporates all of it. He jumped into the fire. Every game was either playoff games or games to decide playoff positioning. Even with that, the Bulls were one blown layup by Luc to sending it to game 7 where anything could have happened. And MJ was gassed at the end of game 6 due to lack of consistent conditioning. It's possible the Bulls could have won anyway though Orlando was still the favorite.

[Dragonyeuw]

Definitely.

Jordan's rust gets overblown. Now there's some truth to it, but it was probably more of Jordan just not being used to his teammates, and only having 17 regular season games to get used to them. As opposed to all of training camp and the pre-season like usual.

It's actually extremely impressive how much Jordan's legs improved from March 1995 when he first came back, to the playoffs. So much more explosiveness, with the first step and leaping ability. A lot of people would be surprised if they watched some of the games against the Magic, particularly games 2 (when he went back to 23), 3, and 5, at how spry he was.

He had a few uncharacteristic errors and missed shots, but for the most part his production level was on par with other championship efforts. His conditioning to go all-out over the course of a tough series wasn't there. Grant and/or Rodman on the team probably reverses the result, 4-2 Bulls. Pippen 95 playoffs>Pippen 96, so any 'rust' or off-play from MJ in 95 was at least somewhat counter-balanced by Pippen's better overall playoff play in 95. You had B.J there as a 4th offensive option behind M.J, Pip, and Kukoc. Grant's 14/10 averages and interior defense/rebounding would have tipped it towards Chicago, but I don't think they beat Houston without MJ playing at prime championship level. Then again, you never know. It easily would have been the Bulls toughest finals opponent.

[ClipperRevival]

1996 against the 72-10 Bulls? I don't think so.

1995 when Jordan came back? Yes. There's a reason the Bulls got eliminated by the Magic, and it was much more than Jordan's rust (which gets overblown).

The Bulls were weak with their interior defense. Horace Grant left and then killed the Bulls in that series. Jordan & Pippen had to expend extra energy trying to make up for this weakness. The Bulls got Rodman in the off-season, Jordan got more time to get used to playing with his new teammates, bulked up a bit and improved his already terrific post game and fadeaway.....and then you get a record-setting season.



Definitely.

Jordan's rust gets overblown. Now there's some truth to it, but it was probably more of Jordan just not being used to his teammates, and only having 17 regular season games to get used to them. As opposed to all of training camp and the pre-season like usual.

It's actually extremely impressive how much Jordan's legs improved from March 1995 when he first came back, to the playoffs. So much more explosiveness, with the first step and leaping ability. A lot of people would be surprised if they watched some of the games against the Magic, particularly games 2 (when he went back to 23), 3, and 5, at how spry he was.

Isn't that what "rust" is?

[Stringer Bell]

Isn't that what "rust" is?

That's part of it but I mean more from a physical standpoint. People talk about his "baseball" legs. Take a look at his legs, his first step, his leaping ability, in the Magic series. His first step was never that quick again.

I also think he had to expend extra energy to try to make up for the weak points that the Bulls had.

[riseagainst]

MJ would set a new playoff record, averaging 50 ppg in the finals in a 4-0 sweep win.

[Da_Realist]

That's part of it but I mean more from a physical standpoint. People talk about his "baseball" legs. Take a look at his legs, his first step, his leaping ability, in the Magic series. His first step was never that quick again.

I also think he had to expend extra energy to try to make up for the weak points that the Bulls had.

He was a one of a kind athlete but he didn't have the conditioning or his top end feel for the game. There was some slippage due to the long layoff. He couldn't even coast his way back -- he had to immediately play at level 10 because those 17 games had playoff implications. He was arrogant to think he could just step back on the court and rule the roost like he did before he left. He was embarrassed by it but truth be told, he played better rusty than most other players do at their best. But he was rusty.

I seriously wonder if they could have taken Orlando without Rodman or Grant if MJ played the whole year. It should have gone to a 7th game as it was.

[ClipperRevival]

That's part of it but I mean more from a physical standpoint. People talk about his "baseball" legs. Take a look at his legs, his first step, his leaping ability, in the Magic series. His first step was never that quick again.

I also think he had to expend extra energy to try to make up for the weak points that the Bulls had.

17 games is a decent amount of time. MJ would've had most of his legs under him by this time but I don't know if he truly had his tip top, middle of the season basketball legs where he can go HARD for an entire game like he normally did.

But beyond the physical aspect, I think the chemistry aspect was more important. 17 games is not a lot of time to get acquainted with new teammates and finding out their style of play and what is the best way to maximize the talent on the team. That takes months at minimum.

[Dragonyeuw]

I seriously wonder if they could have taken Orlando without Rodman or Grant if MJ played the whole year. It should have gone to a 7th game as it was.

I personally can't see it, even with MJs brilliance, that frontline was left too thin from Grants departure.

[OldSchoolBBall]

There's no way Houston beats Chicago in 1994 if Jordan stays. Even if you assume Hakeem/Jordan are a wash (which I don't), Pippen was way better tahn anyone else on Houston, and then so was Grant. Plus you had a proven championship nucleus and coaching. No way.

1995 could be interesting if Grant still leaves, but definitely not 1994.

[Smoke117]

He was a one of a kind athlete but he didn't have the conditioning or his top end feel for the game. There was some slippage due to the long layoff. He couldn't even coast his way back -- he had to immediately play at level 10 because those 17 games had playoff implications. He was arrogant to think he could just step back on the court and rule the roost like he did before he left. He was embarrassed by it but truth be told, he played better rusty than most other players do at their best. But he was rusty.

I seriously wonder if they could have taken Orlando without Rodman or Grant if MJ played the whole year. It should have gone to a 7th game as it was.

If nothing else he was crap defensively in 95 as he had no gas tank to play defense.