Where does Chris Paul rank PG All time

[coined]

As point guard where he ranks?

Point Guards with more rings
Magic
Oscar Robertson
Isaiah Thomas
Bob Cousy
Gary Payton
Walt

[Nilocon165]

[QUOTE=coined]As point guard where he ranks?

Point Guards with more rings
Magic
Oscar Robertson
Isaiah Thomas
Bob Cousy
Gary Payton
Walt

[Quickening]

He is a strange one because if he wins a couple of rings over the next few years playing at the level he normally does in the playoffs, he suddenly gets ranked in the top 2 pgs ever.

Shows how much emphasis people put on team accomplishments when ranking players.

[francesco totti]

Rings argument is dumb

Give him Tim Duncan or Lebron James, he would win one as well much like Kyrie & Porker.Unless you want to debate Blake Griffin is Tim Duncan/Lebron James.

[FKAri]

Why didn't you put K. C. Jones on your first list?

[coined]

You can throw Russell Westbrook better then him as well.
CP0 is vastly overrated

[aj1987]

Rings argument is dumb

Give him Tim Duncan or Lebron James, he would win one as well much like Kyrie & Porker.Unless you want to debate Blake Griffin is Tim Duncan/Lebron James.
Dude had BG, DJ, and JJ and choked away a 3-1 series lead.

Even if we completely ignore rings, Magic, Stockton, WB, Curry, Oscar, Isiah, and GP are better.

[Smoke117]

CP3 isn't a top 10 pg all time? What a moron. :oldlol:

[Young X]

Rings argument is dumb

Give him Tim Duncan or Lebron James, he would win one as well much like Kyrie & Porker.Unless you want to debate Blake Griffin is Tim Duncan/Lebron James.This is why it will always be stupid to put that much emphasis on rings and team success.

If that's the case, Paul isn't even top 20 all-time for his position. All the guys in the OP are better plus guys like Rondo and Dennis Johnson are better.

He's played on a couple good teams but he's never been on the best or 2nd best team in his conference. There were always teams ahead of his in the west every year.

He also never played alongside a truly great HOF caliber player. He's the guy who has made his teams look as good as they are. He's the guy who has elevated the Hornets and Clippers and gave them credibility.

If he was more popular and had a bigger fanbase he would be the most controversial player to rank because there's no middle ground. You either think he's one of the greats or just a decent all-star like Joe Johnson or John Wall or something

[J Shuttlesworth]

CP3 in place of Curry in the finals would probably have won

[Smoke117]

This is why it will always be stupid to put that much emphasis on rings and team success.

If that's the case, Paul isn't even top 20 all-time for his position. All the guys in the OP are better plus guys like Rondo and Dennis Johnson are better.

He's played on a couple good teams but he's never been on the best or 2nd best team in his conference. There were always teams ahead of his in the west every year.

He also never played alongside a truly great HOF caliber player. He's the guy who has made his teams look as good as they are. He's the guy who has elevated the Hornets and Clippers and gave them credibility.

If he was more popular and had a bigger fanbase he would be the most controversial player to rank because there's no middle ground. You either think he's one of the greats or just a decent allstar like Joe Johnson or John Wall.

Most of the ish posters are too dimwitted to understand this.

[SexSymbol]

Magic
Isiah
Cousy
Oscar
Kidd
Nash
Stockton
Payton
Frazier
Billups
Curry

Yeah, he's not top 10

[feyki]

Magic
Oscar
Isiah/Frazier
Stockton
Nash/Kidd
Payton
CP3
Cousy/Davies

9th , probably , right now .

[aj1987]

Magic
Oscar
Isiah/Frazier
Stockton
Nash/Kidd
Payton
CP3
Cousy/Davies

9th , probably , right now .
Wow! That's actually a pretty good list. Pretty much how I rank the top 10 PG's.

[theaussieguy]

Rondo
Curry
Lin
Magic
Isiah
Cousy
Oscar
Kidd
Nash
Stockton
Payton

[PP34Deuce]

He's a top 10 PG All time talent.
His peak is that of an all time great

One ring with his stats and he will be able to creep into the top 10 all time.

Clippers have a 2 year window before they may need to blow it up.

[ClipperRevival]

This is why it will always be stupid to put that much emphasis on rings and team success.

If that's the case, Paul isn't even top 20 all-time for his position. All the guys in the OP are better plus guys like Rondo and Dennis Johnson are better.

He's played on a couple good teams but he's never been on the best or 2nd best team in his conference. There were always teams ahead of his in the west every year.

He also never played alongside a truly great HOF caliber player. He's the guy who has made his teams look as good as they are. He's the guy who has elevated the Hornets and Clippers and gave them credibility.

If he was more popular and had a bigger fanbase he would be the most controversial player to rank because there's no middle ground. You either think he's one of the greats or just a decent all-star like Joe Johnson or John Wall or something

He let his team lose a 3-1 lead against a lower seed. This matters. His epic choke job against OKC also matter. If he doesn't choke in those two situations/series, he might've gone on to play in a finals or two and his legacy looks better. All these things matter. He gets a lot of flak for choking but some of it is warranted.

[yobore]

His teams have never been able to win a series where he wasn't absolutely dominant except for the Memphis series where he was still very good. They've also managed to lose a couple series where he was.

[ClipperRevival]

As for the question, to me, he is the most complete PG ever. Laugh if you want but if you break down every facet of his game, no one was more complete. In terms of sheer talent and impact, he's a top 5 PG ever. He just does so many great things for your team, sort of like a smaller version of LeBron. But he has shown some choking tendencies and some of the criticism is warranted.

[NBAGOAT]

he's a top 5 pg. Even if you want to dock him for lack of team success, you have to do the same for Stockton, Nash, Payton, and Kidd. Also, most of those guys have had bad playoff moments or series too. Isiah is the only who would pass him definitely if you had an emphasis on rings.

[tamaraw08]

[QUOTE=coined]As point guard where he ranks?

Point Guards with more rings
Magic
Oscar Robertson
Isaiah Thomas
Bob Cousy
Gary Payton
Walt

[Young X]

He let his team lose a 3-1 lead against a lower seed. This matters. His epic choke job against OKC also matter. If he doesn't choke in those two situations/series, he might've gone on to play in a finals or two and his legacy looks better. All these things matter. He gets a lot of flak for choking but some of it is warranted.The Rockets weren't a lower seed. They were the 2nd seed and won 56 games while the Clippers were the 3rd seed and also won 56 games.

The Rockets also had homecourt advantage with games 5 and 7 in Houston and Paul missed the first 2 games of the series.

The Clippers shouldn't have even gone that far in the first place, they overachieved even getting past the Spurs who everybody said they would lose to.

Even saying all that, the Clippers still should've won the series against Houston. It's just stupid to put the blame on Paul. He averaged 26/10 on 63 TS% in those 3 losses, his usual level of play didn't drop.

That series was the only time he lost to an arguably inferior team. Every other year he went up against a stronger team. Never lost to a team that won less games than his.

[NBAGOAT]

He let his team lose a 3-1 lead against a lower seed. This matters. His epic choke job against OKC also matter. If he doesn't choke in those two situations/series, he might've gone on to play in a finals or two and his legacy looks better. All these things matter. He gets a lot of flak for choking but some of it is warranted.

OKC is there. The 3-1 lead really came down to game 6 and was really more of Blake's fault at the end of the game(fatigued so won't hold it against him that much) and josh smith and corey brewer playing maybe some of the best basketball they ever played.

[ninephive]

CP3 in place of Curry in the finals would probably have won
Prime Parker in the place of Curry would have won as well. Actually either of his primes.

[kshutts1]

As for the question, to me, he is the most complete PG ever. Laugh if you want but if you break down every facet of his game, no one was more complete. In terms of sheer talent and impact, he's a top 5 PG ever. He just does so many great things for your team, sort of like a smaller version of LeBron. But he has shown some choking tendencies and some of the criticism is warranted.
I won't laugh, but you really think he's more complete than Oscar and Kidd and Stockton? In what ways?

[ClipperRevival]

The Rockets weren't a lower seed. They were the 2nd seed and won 56 games while the Clippers were the 3rd seed and also won 56 games.

The Rockets also had homecourt advantage with games 5 and 7 in Houston and Paul missed the first 2 games of the series.

The Clippers shouldn't have even gone that far in the first place, they overachieved even getting past the Spurs who everybody said they would lose to.

Even saying all that, the Clippers still should've won the series against Houston. It's just stupid to put the blame on Paul. He averaged 26/10 on 63 TS% in those 3 losses, his usual level of play didn't drop.

That series was the only time he lost to an arguably inferior team. Every other year he went up against a stronger team. Never lost to a team that won less games than his.

You are right about the Rockets seeding. Same record but Houston had HCA.

But the bottom line is, as the leader of his team, he shouldn't have let his team lose a 20 point lead, AT HOME, in game 6. That's not a good look. As a certified GOAT level PG, you have to put your foot down and say, "enough." But there are times when CP3 just settles and defers, to a fault. Game 6 was one of them.

I'm not saying he's some epic choke artist. Far from it. What i'm saying is some of the criticism is warranted.

[ClipperRevival]

I won't laugh, but you really think he's more complete than Oscar and Kidd and Stockton? In what ways?

Let me flip it around and ask you, what weaknesses does CP3 have in his game, breaking down each skill individually?

[Kiddlovesnets]

1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Bob Cousy
5. John Stockton
6. Chris Paul
7. Walt Frazier
8. Jason Kidd
9. Gary Payton
10. Kevin Johnson

Hes right there at the #6 spot, although to make a case for top 5 is difficult if he cant make it to WCF.

[kshutts1]

Let me flip it around and ask you, what weaknesses does CP3 have in his game, breaking down each skill individually?
He doesn't have any weaknesses per se, but that's a vastly different point than the one you made.

To nit-pick, I'd say that he lacks the drive/edge/fire/whatever to regularly make plays for himself, just like Stockton. Possibly too focused on setting up his team.

Then while Paul's good defensively, I believe that he's too small to be as good a defender as he could be.

Again, I'm literally nit-picking. I think he's a phenomenal player and talent, and really, really high on my all-time rankings. I don't know where, exactly, but certainly top 50, more likely top 35.

[Young X]

You are right about the Rockets seeding. Same record but Houston had HCA.

But the bottom line is, as the leader of his team, he shouldn't have let his team lose a 20 point lead, AT HOME, in game 6. That's not a good look. As a certified GOAT level PG, you have to put your foot down and say, "enough." But there are times when CP3 just settles and defers, to a fault. Game 6 was one of them.

I'm not saying he's some epic choke artist. Far from it. What i'm saying is some of the criticism is warranted.There were a couple opportunities he could've took better advantage of (that game is one, game 7 against the Spurs is another) and he definitely deserves the criticism for it. No question.

But that's not enough for me. It's still stupid to use that to deny his greatness as a player (not saying you're doing that). It's not like he's the only great player to let a few opportunities slip away.

Even in that game against Houston he was arguably the best player on the court even with the 4th quarter. 31/11/7 on 65 TS% in that game.

[kshutts1]

1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Bob Cousy
5. John Stockton
6. Chris Paul
7. Walt Frazier
8. Jason Kidd
9. Gary Payton
10. Kevin Johnson

Hes right there at the #6 spot, although to make a case for top 5 is difficult if he cant make it to WCF.
Kevin Johnson is a really unique inclusion. What reasoning do you use to have him over Parker or Curry or Davies, in particular?

[ClipperRevival]

There were a couple opportunities he could've took better advantage of (that game is one, game 7 against the Spurs is another) and he definitely deserves the criticism for it. No question.

But that's not enough for me. It's still stupid to use that to deny his greatness as a player (not saying you're doing that). It's not like he's the only great player to let a few opportunities slip away.

Even in that game against Houston he was arguably the best player on the court even with the 4th quarter. 31/11/7 on 65 TS% in that game.

Fair enough. Before he came to LAC, I knew he was good but after seeing him up close for all these years, I didn't realize he was this good. It was eye opening.

[ClipperRevival]

OKC is there. The 3-1 lead really came down to game 6 and was really more of Blake's fault at the end of the game(fatigued so won't hold it against him that much) and josh smith and corey brewer playing maybe some of the best basketball they ever played.

It was cringe worthy watching Smith and Brewer just go OFF like that in game 6.

[ninephive]

1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Bob Cousy
5. John Stockton
6. Chris Paul
7. Walt Frazier
8. Jason Kidd
9. Gary Payton
10. Kevin Johnson

Hes right there at the #6 spot, although to make a case for top 5 is difficult if he cant make it to WCF.
Parker has as many rings (and more FMVPs) than the last 6 on your list combined.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Parker has as many rings (and more FMVPs) than the last 6 on your list combined.

Well Duncan is a top 6 player of alltime, its easier to win if you are the sidekick of such a legend.

[ClipperRevival]

He doesn't have any weaknesses per se, but that's a vastly different point than the one you made.

To nit-pick, I'd say that he lacks the drive/edge/fire/whatever to regularly make plays for himself, just like Stockton. Possibly too focused on setting up his team.

Then while Paul's good defensively, I believe that he's too small to be as good a defender as he could be.

Again, I'm literally nit-picking. I think he's a phenomenal player and talent, and really, really high on my all-time rankings. I don't know where, exactly, but certainly top 50, more likely top 35.

Yeah, when I evaluate his game, I see no weaknesses in terms of skill. Only thing I can think of is the obvious lack of height and like you said, lack of drive at times.

But in terms of actual game, he could do it all. Had take over game iso scoring ability, could get to anywhere on the court with his dribble, get to the rack anytime he wanted to, amazing mid-range game, finish at the rim, solid 3 point shot, great off the triple threat position, could play with his back to the basket and post guys up, great FT shooter, GOAT level at maximizing every possession on offense, great passer, GOAT at turnover/assist ratio and elite at generating steals.

And I would have to disagree about his D. When he was motivated and closer to his prime physically, I saw this guy literally get a steal when he wanted too after a bad play. He's an amazing defender. He holds his ground well, very quick, great hands and great IQ. To me, he's one of the best PG defenders ever.

So I just don't see a weakness in his game.

[kshutts1]

Getting back to my previous point of (very mild) contention, how is Paul more well-rounded than Oscar in particular, but also Kidd and Stockton?

None of them have any glaring holes, either. The most obvious ones, though, are...
Oscar's "lack" on D (which I believe is overblown)

Kidd's poor shooting numbers and being "reckless" at times (fair argument, though some points given for era)

Stockton's lack of take-over ability (but he never needed to thanks to Karl. Could he have if needed?)

[ClipperRevival]

Getting back to my previous point of (very mild) contention, how is Paul more well-rounded than Oscar in particular, but also Kidd and Stockton?

None of them have any glaring holes, either. The most obvious ones, though, are...
Oscar's "lack" on D (which I believe is overblown)

Kidd's poor shooting numbers and being "reckless" at times (fair argument, though some points given for era)

Stockton's lack of take-over ability (but he never needed to thanks to Karl. Could he have if needed?)

Kidd and Stockton didn't have CP3's offensive game. CP3 could get off a shot from almost anywhere on the court and get to the rack almost anytime he wanted too, at least in his prime. They never had that level of offensive game and honestly weren't great offensive PGs. They were more "play within the offensive flow and get mines when the opportunity is there" type PGs. Having that take over offensive game is a big asset. CP3 had it, those guys didn't.

And I can't comment on Oscar because I never saw him play. I know he put up great, all-around numbers but numbers don't tell you exactly what strengths/weaknesses a player had.

[Young X]

You could take away a major component of Paul's game and he'd still be an all-star caliber player.

Take away the passing, he's a Kyle Lowry level player.

Take away the scoring/shooting, he's basically Rondo or John Wall level.

Take away the defense, he's a slightly worse Nash, basically prime Deron Williams level.

What other PG's can you say this about? A guy that can run a #1 offense while playing All-NBA caliber defense.

But we're gonna sit here and act like this dude isn't a great player because he doesn't have a ring and because of his playoff record?

When he's elevated 2 losing franchises in the probably the most competitive conference ever. When he's losing to stronger, higher rated teams almost every year (aside from last year).

If you can't see it you're just an idiot.

[bizil]

At this point, I think CP3 is a top 10 GOAT PG. Peak wise, he's been a top 10 PG for some years now. GOAT wise, these would be my top 10 GOAT: (no particular order other than the top 3)


1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Zeke
4. Stockton
5. Kidd
6. Cousy
7. Frazier
8. GP
9. Nash
10. CP3

When it comes to PG's who combined scoring, defense, and passing the best, I think CP3 is in the top 3 along with GP and Frazier.

[NBAGOAT]

At this point, I think CP3 is a top 10 GOAT PG. Peak wise, he's been a top 10 PG for some years now. GOAT wise, these would be my top 10 GOAT: (no particular order other than the top 3)


1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Zeke
4. Stockton
5. Kidd
6. Cousy
7. Frazier
8. GP
9. Nash
10. CP3

When it comes to PG's who combined scoring, defense, and passing the best, I think CP3 is in the top 3 along with GP and Frazier.

imo his peak was definitely top 5, good case for top 3. Have a hard time putting anyone else's peak above his besides maybe Nash if you really believe in his offensive impact. He was in the MVP conversation with arguably peak Kobe and prime Lebron. Played defense as good as anyone not named GP, Frazier, or Kidd and anchored a top 5 offense with just West, Peja, and Chandler. Also unbelievable at limiting TO's, one of the best ever at the PG position.

[bizil]

imo his peak was definitely top 5, good case for top 3. Have a hard time putting anyone else's peak above his besides maybe Nash if you really believe in his offensive impact. He was in the MVP conversation with arguably peak Kobe and prime Lebron. Played defense as good as anyone not named GP, Frazier, or Kidd and anchored a top 5 offense with just West, Peja, and Chandler. Also unbelievable at limiting TO's, one of the best ever at the PG position.

Well said! CP3 is the total package at the PG position. A pass first floor general who can ALSO be a great scorer. And from there has the great defense. Due to the multitude of score first PG's in the league today, CP3 is kind of the last of a dying breed at PG in a sense.

[Wade's Rings]

imo his peak was definitely top 5, good case for top 3. Have a hard time putting anyone else's peak above his besides maybe Nash if you really believe in his offensive impact. He was in the MVP conversation with arguably peak Kobe and prime Lebron. Played defense as good as anyone not named GP, Frazier, or Kidd and anchored a top 5 offense with just West, Peja, and Chandler. Also unbelievable at limiting TO's, one of the best ever at the PG position.

West put up 21pts on 48% shooting, Peja put up 16pts on 44% shooting from the field and 3, Chandler's points were mostly spoon fed baskets or putbacks. The bench from what I recall was pretty weak but the starting 5 was great.

[NBAGOAT]

West put up 21pts on 48% shooting, Peja put up 16pts on 44% shooting from the field and 3, Chandler's points were mostly spoon fed baskets or putbacks.

west was an all star but not really a super star level big man. Comparable to guys like Boozer or Randolph. Peja was still pretty good but benefited from Paul creating open looks too. The help was good but not great and didn't scream top tier offense. Definitely still up there at the time but I take the Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Pistons supporting casts at the time. Possibly even the Magic or Jazz.