So Lebron intimidated and bullied the Warriors after Game 4?

[3ball]

is that what happened?

i'm looking at several highlights where Lebron got into exchange with Draymond or Curry, and the body language screams that both were SCARED, and Curry specifically with his screw face looked like Lebron was "in his head"

these soft-ass players from today's creampuff era.. i'd like to see Lebron pull that in the 80's or 90's.. wouldn't happen

[Quickening]

They were going up against the best elimination game performer of all time, of course they were shitting their pants.

[theaussieguy]

kings don't bully, he just RULED over his minions like a true king should, like the greatest of all time could only do.

[scuzzy]

is that what happened?

i'm looking at the body language of several highlights where Lebron got into exchange with Draymond or Curry, and it looked like both were SCARED, and Curry specifically looked "off his game", like Lebron was "in his head"

is that what happened?


After Lebron's 2nd chase down block on Curry in gm 6, Steph NEVER drove to the basket after that and he had many open looks, he settled for threes.

Lebron and Thompson had the Warriors SHOOK to get in the paint.

even Green was settling for 3s all game


LBJ + TT = ELITE Rim Protection

[3ball]

kings don't bully, he just RULED over his minions like a true king should, like the greatest of all time could only do.


the body language screams that both Draymond and Curry were SCARED when Lebron started chirping, and Curry specifically with his screw face looked like Lebron was "in his head"

it shows how soft and creampuff today's players..

i'd like to see Lebron pull that in the 80's or 90's.. it wouldn't happen - guys would happily FIGHT Lebron if he came at them like that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron would probably be just as good in the 80s and 90s as he is today.

At least that's what the NBA TV panel, a personel comprised of 80s and 90s stars, think.

Just saying :confusedshrug:

[MP.Trey]

That's basically what happened, yeah.

Klay/Dray/Speights openly disrespected him and he showed what happens when you do that. And I think he just generally felt disrespected that Curry got the UMVP. As Klay would say "it's a man's game", and LeBron is more of a man on the basketball court than any Warrior.

Watching LeBron block Curry 6 times this series. And to see Curry's dejected look and his salty behavior after each one was oh so gratifying to watch as a LeBron fan.

[Quickening]

Best and most durable athlete ever sitting at 6 foot 8 and 250 pounds of muscle, would struggle with the physicality of the 80s....

:lol :roll: :roll:

[Andrei89]

I put " ctrl + f" and typed " jordan"

Holy shit the OP did not mention him :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[Terahite]

I put " ctrl + f" and typed " jordan"

Holy shit the OP did not mention him :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

OP, who is correct about the Warriors shitting their pants, has been afraid to bring up Jordan explicitly since Sunday after this legendary Finals win from the King

just remember "80s and 90s" is code for Jordan :D

[AintNoSunshine]

I put " ctrl + f" and typed " jordan"

Holy shit the OP did not mention him :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
:roll: :roll: :roll: Did you try Michael? 3ball account got hacked

[3ball]

the NBA TV panel of 80's and 90's stars says Lebron would be just as good in the 80's or 90's most likely


The media has never analyzed the REAL differences between the eras, other than talking about hand-checking or saying "it was a different game" (but essentially dismissing the differences).

Based on this grade school analysis - yes - Lebron would be just as good in the 80's or 90's.

But that analysis is garbage.. Lebron's teammates wouldn't be spacing the floor for him via 3-pointers in the 80's or 90's - the floor setup in these no-spacing environments was COMPLETELY different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot much more because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Look at an example of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration is not POSSIBLE, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange..

This is the primary reason Lebron would be worse back then - his lack of midrange shooting ability - virtually ALL great perimeter scorers in the 80's and 90's had great midrange (just look at the top 10 scorers from 1985 or any year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html) in the 80's or 90's - everyone had great midrange).. But in today's game, it's statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) that most of the top perimeter scorers don't have good midrange jumpshots, because the spacing and hands-off defense allows them easier access to the rim.

[tpols]

bron was able to intimidate the warriors after game 4, because their toughest player was out, and their next toughest player broke his knee. With both those guys gone, the physical yin to steph and klay's finesse yang, Cleveland and bron were able to bully the warriors.

you're right though OP, because not only would players from earlier eras stand up to it more, but the retroactive application of flagrants days after the game is finished also would have never occured. Imagine if we put a microscope on guys like dennis rodman, bill lambier or rick mahorn for all their little scuffles.. they could theoretically be suspended every other game.

[lilteapot]

Lebron would run Ordan over and trample over his frail ass

[3ball]

Best and most durable athlete ever sitting at 6 foot 8 and 250 pounds of muscle, would struggle with the physicality of the 80s....

:lol :roll: :roll:
If Lebron is so durable, why does he need to rest during the regular season?

He only plays 35 mpg compared to Jordan's 40, and he only plays 69-75 games compared to Jordan's 82 EVERY YEAR during the second 3-peat, and 82/80/78 during the first 3-peat.

Jordan was clearly more durable and far better stamina (cramps never forced him to be carried from the floor).

Btw, Lebron needs someone to disrespect him, otherwise he can't get up the motivation to be aggressive on every play.. Jordan needed extra motivation too - but not as much, and he would pounce on the tiniest slight by another player as an excuse to play hard.. Whereas Lebron needs someone to call him a BITCH and say his feelings were hurt.. :oldlol:

[KyrieTheFuture]

Don't be mad because this title was more impressive than any of Jordans

jk

[Quickening]

If Lebron is so durable, why does he need to rest during the regular season?

He only plays 35 mpg compared to Jordan's 40, and he only plays 69-75 games compared to Jordan's 82 EVERY YEAR during the second 3-peat, and 82/80/78 during the first 3-peat.

Jordan was clearly more durable and far better stamina (cramps never forced him to be carried from the floor).

Btw, Lebron needs someone to disrespect him, otherwise he can't get up the motivation to be aggressive on every play.. Jordan needed extra motivation too - but not as much, and he would pounce on the tiniest slight by another player as an excuse to play hard.. Whereas Lebron needs someone to call him a BITCH and say his feelings were hurt.. :oldlol:

Lebron was dominating the league at 18, and didn't need a 2 year break from the sport, lol at mj being more durable :lol

[Goldrush25]

Lesson learned is, don't poke the bear.

It's one thing if the player talking shite can back it up. Klay is a nice player with an outside shot at the HOF, but he's not close to Lebron's level. Mo Speights talking shite? Really, lol.

What did they think was going to happen to them?

[3ball]

Lebron was dominating the league at 18



Not as much as 40-year old Jordan:


JORDANI 2003:. 19.3 PER.. 20.0 ppg.. 44.5%
LEBRON. 2004:. 18.3 PER.. 20.9 ppg.. 41.7%


Also - at 22 years old, Lebron averaged 22 ppg on 35% against a championship team and #1 defense (07' Spurs), while 22-year old Jordan averaged 44 ppg on 51% a championship team and #1 defense (86' Celtics).. Jordan broke the playoff record against those Celtics.
.

[PP34Deuce]

part of the disrespect was on lebron. He was passive. It felt like a big kid getting teased by lil kids and forgetting that they are bigger, stronger, and faster than them.

I don't know what happen but it's like he realized he was 6'8 260 and still a freak athlete.

Lebron in the 80's would adjust most likely to the physical play. At the SF position he's easily the fastest and in the middle-up tier of strength.

[3ball]

Lebron in the 80's would adjust most likely to the physical play. At the SF position he's easily the fastest and in the middle-up tier of strength.


On NBA TV, a panel of 80's and 90's stars said Lebron would MOST LIKELY be as good in the 80's or 90's.. But the media has never analyzed the REAL differences between the eras, other than talking about hand-checking or saying "it was a different game" (but essentially dismissing the differences).

Based on this grade school analysis - yes - Lebron would be just as good in the 80's or 90's.

But that analysis is garbage.. Lebron's teammates wouldn't be spacing the floor for him via 3-pointers in the 80's or 90's - the floor setup in these no-spacing environments was COMPLETELY different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot much more because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Look at an example of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration is not POSSIBLE, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange..

This is the primary reason Lebron would be worse back then - his lack of midrange shooting ability - virtually ALL great perimeter scorers in the 80's and 90's had great midrange (just look at the top 10 scorers from 1985 or any year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html) in the 80's or 90's - everyone had great midrange).. But in today's game, it's statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) that most of the top perimeter scorers don't have good midrange jumpshots, because the spacing and hands-off defense allows them easier access to the rim.

[moongaze]

is that what happened?

i'm looking at several highlights where Lebron got into exchange with Draymond or Curry, and the body language screams that both were SCARED, and Curry specifically with his screw face looked like Lebron was "in his head"

these soft-ass players from today's creampuff era.. i'd like to see Lebron pull that in the 80's or 90's.. wouldn't happen

Read an article that said after being down 0-2, that someone suggested he watched old Muhammed Ali tapes and study how he weathered the storm in long title fights, knowing his opponent would tire. He saw haw Ali would taunt his opponents , reminding them that he was the greatest. He copied ali

[warriorfan]

is that what happened?

i'm looking at several highlights where Lebron got into exchange with Draymond or Curry, and the body language screams that both were SCARED, and Curry specifically with his screw face looked like Lebron was "in his head"

these soft-ass players from today's creampuff era.. i'd like to see Lebron pull that in the 80's or 90's.. wouldn't happen

They had to just turn the other way when LeBron was instigating

The commissioner set precedent to what happens if you engage with LeBron and punk him

You get suspended

So Golden State's hands were tied, they had to sit there and let LeBron do whatever he wanted because if anyone would of retaliated in the slightest bit they would of got a bogus suspension a la Draymond Green

[3ball]

Lebron didn't need a 2 year break from the sport


Jordan averaged 36/7/8 on 52% in the 1991-1993 Finals - let that sink in - each Finals was a legendary, all-time performance.. If Lebron had dominated like this, he would've retired FOR GOOD.. :oldlol:

You know it's true - Lebron has more relaxed and lazier mentality than Jordan, which would make him MORE likely to take a break if he had Jordan's god-like domination.

Jordan didn't have any more challenges, so he retired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=9m07s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=16m46s

[warriorfan]

Read an article that said after being down 0-2, that someone suggested he watched old Muhammed Ali tapes and study how he weathered the storm in long title fights, knowing his opponent would tire. He saw haw Ali would taunt his opponents , reminding them that he was the greatest. He copied ali

Watching Ali tapes... :roll:

More like he hit his Adam Silver speeddial button and started pleading to do something about Draymond :oldlol:

[dankok8]

Lebron is essentially Dominique but much stronger, better from long-range, with elite court vision, and way way more committed on defense.

And yet we have 3ball telling us that Lebron wouldn't be all that in the 80's and 90's. Yea right... :oldlol:

[3ball]

Lebron is essentially Dominique but much stronger, better from long-range, with elite court vision, and way way more committed on defense.


The floor setup in no-spacing environments (where Lebron's teammates AREN'T spacing the floor for him with 3-pointers) was completely different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot much more because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Look at an example of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration is not physically possible with so many defenders waiting in the paint, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange.

So your list of Lebron's skills excluded the most important thing required of good perimeter scorers in no-spacing environments - midrange shooting ability - this is how most points were scored back then, which means Lebron's horrible (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17) midrange efficiency would hurt him.
.

[r0drig0lac]

as great as LeBron is, without spacing and without a reliable mid-range he would fight offensively, he probably would compensate in other ways, but it certainly would bring more difficulties

[3ball]

as great as LeBron is, without spacing and without a reliable mid-range he would fight offensively, he probably would compensate in other ways, but it certainly would bring more difficulties
Exactly.. Virtually ALL good perimeter scorers in the 80's and 90's had great midrange (just look at the top 10 scorers from 1986 or any year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html) in the 80's or 90's - everyone had great midrange)... They needed great midrange because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint and prevent penetration, as seen here (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif).

But in today's game, it's statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) that most of the top perimeter scorers DON'T have good midrange jumpshots, because the spacing and hands-off defense allows them easier access to the rim.. It's very intuitive and plain fact - a cursory glance of today's game versus prior eras shows a wide open paint versus and overcrowded one that prevents penetration.

[Hey Yo]

Jordan averaged 36/7/8 on 52% in the 1991-1993 Finals - let that sink in - each Finals was a legendary, all-time performance.. If Lebron had dominated like this, he would've retired FOR GOOD.. :oldlol:

You know it's true - Lebron has more relaxed and lazier mentality than Jordan, which would make him MORE likely to take a break if he had Jordan's god-like domination.

Jordan didn't have any more challenges, so he retired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=9m07s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=16m46s
:roll:

A gambling addict got tired of winning, so he quit competing.....:roll:

So why did he comeback? What presented a new challenge....better teammates than 2yrs before??

:oldlol:

[LBJ 23]

Listen to the commentary....that's pretty much what happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4_2Q7zyVW8

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The media has never analyzed the REAL differences between the eras, other than talking about hand-checking or saying "it was a different game" (but essentially dismissing the differences).

Grade school analysis...

Sure they have.

Watch the Open Court series where a fan posed the question, and Barkley n crew answered directly suggesting the question was ridiculous.

They talked about LeBron being better individually on defense because he COULD handcheck; work more inside and use his strength even MORE SO to his advantage. Keep in mind this epsiode aired around the time Bron was hitting the midrange shot (2013-ish), so I would assume had he practiced it long enough he'd probably be decent at it. During his peak at least.

I'm of the opinion dude would be the same player with maybe a slight decline in FG%. More or less because of the inconsistent in-between game and rules that favored defenses. Guy would still be in contention for best player in the world honors with MJ certain seasons.

[bigkingsfan]

Like Detroit on Jordan

[3ball]

They had to just turn the other way when LeBron was instigating

The commissioner set precedent to what happens if you engage with LeBron and punk him

You get suspended


Curry or Draymond would NOT have been suspended for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wLW2UwkcG4&t=3m37s


that was in Game 7 btw

I believe Dray and Curry were intimidated based on their body language and passiveness in responding - they could've gotten in his face and let him know they weren't punks.. but they didn't.. lessons learned :confusedshrug:
.

[Hey Yo]

Tell us again how the ultimate competitor/ gambling addict got bored with winning and decided to quit the game. How he had no competition, yet came back 2yrs later to play with better teammates, fresher legs and against lesser competition.

:roll:

[Tmuston Beltics]

is that what happened?

i'm looking at several highlights where Lebron got into exchange with Draymond or Curry, and the body language screams that both were SCARED, and Curry specifically with his screw face looked like Lebron was "in his head"

these soft-ass players from today's creampuff era.. i'd like to see Lebron pull that in the 80's or 90's.. wouldn't happen

Of course it wouldn't happen.. Who would be scared of 10-year-old kid?

[3ball]

Tell us again how the ultimate competitor/ gambling addict got bored with winning and decided to quit the game. How he had no competition, yet came back 2yrs later to play with better teammates, fresher legs and against lesser competition.

:roll:
That's the whole point - there was nothing else to compete for!

But you can't comprehend the domination of averaging 36/7/8 over 3 straight Finals - it leaves you with nothing else to prove, which is death for a competitor like Jordan.

If Lebron had dominated like this, he would've retired FOR GOOD.. You know it's true - Lebron has more relaxed and lazier mentality than Jordan, so he's MORE likely to take a break if he had Jordan's god-like domination.

Jordan didn't have any more challenges, so he retired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=9m07s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=16m46s

[3ball]

Lebron's teammates wouldn't be spacing the floor for him via 3-pointers in the 80's or 90's - the floor setup in these no-spacing environments was COMPLETELY different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot much more because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Look at an example of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration is not POSSIBLE, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange..

This is the primary reason Lebron would be worse back then - his lack of midrange shooting ability - virtually ALL great perimeter scorers in the 80's and 90's had great midrange (just look at the top 10 scorers from 1985 or any year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html) in the 80's or 90's - everyone had great midrange).. But in today's game, it's statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) that most of the top perimeter scorers don't have good midrange jumpshots, because the spacing and hands-off defense allows them easier access to the rim.




An NBA TV panel said LeBron would be better individually on defense because he COULD handcheck; work more inside and use his strength even MORE SO to his advantage. Keep in mind this epsiode aired around the time Bron was hitting the midrange shot (2013-ish), so I would assume had he practiced midrange long enough he'd probably be decent at it. During his peak at least.


So your claim that Lebron would be just as good in the 80's and 90's rests on the assumption that Lebron would have the required midrange "if he practiced it long enough"?

That's simply false and wishful thinking.. He's been in the league for 13 years and he's practiced it plenty, just like his 3-point shot - but his midrange percentage is below 40% for 10 of 13 seasons (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17), and his career 3-point percentage was 28% this season and 32% for his playoff career.

Lebron is simply not a good midrange shooter, which would hurt him in eras where the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint and prevent Lebron's preferred penetration - Lebron would face this (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) on a regular basis, where overcrowded paints make penetration physically impossible.. And again - the notion that he would morph into a good midrange shooter flies in the face of empirical facts and reality.

[Hey Yo]

That's the whole point - there was nothing else to compete for!

But you can't comprehend the domination of averaging 36/7/8 over 3 straight Finals - it leaves you with nothing else to prove, which is death for a competitor like Jordan.

If Lebron had dominated like this, he would've retired FOR GOOD.. You know it's true - Lebron has more relaxed and lazier mentality than Jordan, so he's MORE likely to take a break if he had Jordan's god-like domination.

Jordan didn't have any more challenges, so he retired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=9m07s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ_jNwyNu0Q&t=16m46s
So he had no competition, yet came back 2yrs later to play on fresher legs, with better teammates and against lesser competition?

That was his new challenge?.............:oldlol:

Weak ass trolling on your part, Chico

[3ball]

So he had no competition, yet came back 2yrs later to play on fresher legs, with better teammates and against lesser competition?

That was his new challenge?.............:oldlol:

Weak ass trolling on your part, Chico



That's right - Jordan had no competition during 1st three-peat because he dominated HOF's:



JORDAN 1991 FINALS:. 31/7/11 on 56%
MAGICV 1991 FINALS:. 19/7/11 on 43%


JORDANI 1992 FINALS:. 36/5/7 on 53%
DREXLER 1992 FINALS:. 25/8/5 on 41%


Not having competition is DEATH to a competitor like Jordan, so he retired after winning 1 more in 1993 (where he averaged 41/9/6 and broke the Finals scoring record)

[Smoke117]

Kareem > Lebron > Jordan

[3ball]

Kareem > Lebron > Jordan


Kareem wasn't the best player for most of his championships, and averaged 14 ppg and 17 ppg in various playoff runs.. Jordan was far better on both ends (best scorer and defender ever at his position - the only player in history that can say that - THE goat two-way player).

As for Lebron, he has half the rings and half the fmvps - so he needs to redo his entire career over to match Jordan.. good luck with that - i'm sure you'll be wishing upon a star that he does it though - happy wishing

[3ball]

You get suspended if you stand up to Lebron

So Golden State's hands were tied



Not true - Dray and Curry wouldn't get suspended if they stood up to Lebron like this:


https://media.giphy.com/media/p1HGuwdBGa9Ne/giphy.gif


This was in a Game 7 btw.. Here's Jordan saying that he "needed to talk trash to the bully, so we ALL could gain confidence":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wLW2UwkcG4&t=3m37s


That's how it's done.. That's leadership.
.

[AirBonner]

LeBron would absolutely shit on the weak ass expansion era. gtfo op. you live in the past. Players today are FAR more athletic then the stiffs Jordan played back then.

[diamenz]

So he had no competition, yet came back 2yrs later to play on fresher legs, with better teammates and against lesser competition?

That was his new challenge?.............:oldlol:

Weak ass trolling on your part, Chico

you could say the same thing about james going back home to the cavs.

[3ball]

LeBron would absolutely shit on the weak ass expansion era.


The higher level of euros and international players made the NBA less athletic - today's NBA also has 10 more teams, so an extra 150 players make today's diluted, watered down league than the 80's.

Btw, look at the all-star teams in 1998 - Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Kobe, Grant Hill, Penny, Pippen, Jordan, Drexler, Hakeem, David Robinson - these guys are better athletes and players than today's players.

The 80's and 90's is the modern era, but it was the UNSPACED phase of the modern era - that's a tougher time period than today's SPACED phase of the modern era.. It's statistical fact that Lebron and Curry achieve their stats WITH teammates spacing the floor (their teams take 30 threes per game), while Jordan achieved his stats WITHOUT teammates spacing the floor (Bulls took 5 threes per game in 1991).





Players today are FAR more athletic then the stiffs Jordan played back then.


Not true - the furthest dunk behind the FT line happened in the EIGHTIES by Mike Conley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXmnV0HoLE8&t=0m7s


The athleticism of humans doesn't evolve in short periods of time like you think - if that was the case, players would be dunking from the 3-point line by now.. But the FT line is still the standard, just like it was in the 70's with Dr. J, the 80's with MJ/Drexler/Pippen/Brent Barry (who all dunked from FT line in dunk contest), and today.. The FT line will be the standard for the rest of our lifetimes..

The American record for the 100 yard dash is the same as when Ben Johnson ran 9.78 in 1988... The Jamaicans are the only country to go lower, and they are a severe anomaly (small island where they do secret things).. The high jump and long jump records have stood for decades.





Lebron would destroy the stiffs Jordan played back then.



The wings from MJ's era match today's era man-for-man:


...2000-2014.................1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg), Jamaal Mashburn, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison



^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars
.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie deserves a little more credit than he has gotten, tbh. He averaged 31 points per game on 51% from the field in the final 5 games of the series.

Let that sink in for a second.

[3ball]

Kyrie deserves a little more credit than he has gotten, tbh. He averaged 31 points per game on 51% from the field in the final 5 games of the series.

Let that sink in for a second.


Kyrie averaged 27 ppg on 47%, which is far better than anything Pippen ever did - Pippen's playoff high is 24 ppg, in a series where Jordan averaged 45 ppg (1992 1st Round) and his high in the Finals is 21 ppg.

We know for a FACT that Kyrie's performance was more impactful than Pippen's 1996 Finals (15 ppg on 34%) or 1998 Finals (15 ppg on 41%).. So Kyrie stepped up and gave Lebron more help.

[CuterThanRubio]

After game 4, you mean when their most important player was suspended and their center got injured?

Lets pretend that they weren't up 3-1 before those events occurred

:hammerhead:

The 2016 Cavs and Warriors would beat any team from the 90s at full strength

[LebronsHairline]

Curry got punked. Fact.

[3ball]

The 2016 Cavs and Warriors would beat any team from the 90s at full strength


The Warriors barely beat Durant/Westbrook, while the 1998 Jazz SWEPT Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers, and Duncan/Robinson/Popovich's 56-win Spurs.

So I don't think the Warriors beat the Jazz, especially considering how weak the Warriors are inside and vulnerable to physicality.

Everyone is now aware that the kryptonite for the Warriors' 3-point gimmick style is to be physical, intimidate and dominate the glass and interior - that's 90's ball all the way.. A ton of teams would beat these Warriors in playoff basketball, which is why it shouldn't be a surprise (in hindsight) that Lebron's Cavs won.

[diamenz]

The 2016 Cavs and Warriors would beat any team from the 90s at full strength

because athleticism is everything and iq is nothing, right?

[3ball]

because athleticism is everything and iq is nothing, right?


Klay, Curry, Draymond and Bogut aren't that athletic and they all start - tons of 90's teams were more athletic.

Brand of basketball has always been more important than athleticism, which is why Lebron and Team USA lost repeatedly in international competition to unathletic euros - they didn't place first in 2002, 2004, or 2006, despite having GOAT advantage in talent and athleticism.

[AintNoSunshine]

High school kids today be able to do Dunk Contest winning dunks in the 80s

Nuff said.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

LeBron in the 80s/90s averages 34/10/10

[dankok8]

The floor setup in no-spacing environments (where Lebron's teammates AREN'T spacing the floor for him with 3-pointers) was completely different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot much more because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Look at an example of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration is not physically possible with so many defenders waiting in the paint, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange.

So your list of Lebron's skills excluded the most important thing required of good perimeter scorers in no-spacing environments - midrange shooting ability - this is how most points were scored back then, which means Lebron's horrible (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17) midrange efficiency would hurt him.
.

Ok so if this is true then how did Nique who is again less strong than Lebron, a worse shooter from long-range, and with far less court vision DOMINATE the 80's and 90's offensively? And Drexler who had better court vision but was even smaller and not a great shooter...

[dankok8]

I will give 3ball credit in that humans evolve very slowly and that today's best athletes aren't inherently superior to those of the earlier decades by any measurable amount. The gap is likely due to better diet, exercise, health practices and equipment rather than genetics. Guys like Wilt, Russell, and Dr J doing what they did back then would do even better with today's technology. I have said this many times.

I think it would be stupendous to rank Lebron ahead of Jordan all time. He just doesn't measure up in total accomplishments. However, comparing them as players one against the other there is no right or wrong answer. Lebron's legendary performances have put him in the same tier as Jordan.