I have a question for fans who think players are more athletic today

[3ball]

.
MJ won his last ring 18 years ago in 1998 - so 18 years from now, will you be saying Lebron's stats are watered down because he played against inferior athletes?


FYI - Jordan won MVP over the following all-stars in 1998:


Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, Duncan, Kobe, Grant Hill, Drexler, Pippen, Penny, Payton, David Robinson, Hakeem, Alonzo and more..


That sounds like a much better list than today's top 10 MVP vote-getters: http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2016.html

[hateraid]

Did you actually have a question? Because looks to me as if you wanted to make a long winded statement

[SouBeachTalents]

.
MJ won his last ring 18 years ago in 1998 - so 18 years from now, will you be saying Lebron's stats are watered down because he played against inferior athletes?


FYI - Jordan won MVP over the following all-stars in 1998:


Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, Duncan, Kobe, Grant Hill, Drexler, Pippen, Penny, Payton, David Robinson, Hakeem, Alonzo and more..


That sounds like a much better list than today's top 10 MVP vote-getters: http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2016.html

How the hell did Pippen finish in the top 10 in '98 when he missed 38 games?

[3ball]

Did you actually have a question? Because looks to me as if you wanted to make a long winded statement
Can you read?

I highlighted the first sentence, which is a question.

Can you answer the question, or are you going to avoid it

[Living Being]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTerkZHNJo4/hqdefault.jpg

[hateraid]

Can you read?

I highlighted the first sentence, which is a question.

Can you answer the question, or are you going to avoid it

Usually questions are inquiries you don't know the answer to. You didn't pose a question because your answer is already predetermined. Therefore what you are doing is trolling. Did you want to hear an answer or are you going to dikk ride Jordan the whole way through. Otherwise I'd just advise the other posters to ignore the troll post.

[deja vu]

People think that players are more athletic today, but the truth is that medicine, nutrition, supplements, and training have improved so players naturally look more athletic. It's not because of evolution or genetic advances.

If you give Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq these benefits they would be more beastly. Heck, Wilt would put Deandre Jordan to shame.

[3ball]

Usually questions are inquiries you don't know the answer to. You didn't pose a question because your answer is already predetermined.


Are you kidding me?.. I want to know what YOU AND OTHER FANS THINK - I don't know what your answer to the question will be, which is why I asked.

I'm genuinely curious whether fans will say Lebron's stats are watered down 20 years from now, the way they say Jordan's are

So will you and other fans say Lebron's stats are watered down due to inferior athletes or not?

[hateraid]

Are you kidding me?.. I want to know what YOU AND OTHER FANS THINK - I don't know what your answer to the question will be, which is why I asked.

I'm genuinely curious whether fans will say Lebron's stats are watered down 20 years from now, the way they say Jordan's are

So will you and other fans say Lebron's stats are watered down due to inferior athletes or not?

:lol
Dude, the only thing you are genuine about is to try and achieve your agenda in boosting Jordan. Your thread is so transparent I can see your Jordan Haynes

[Sarcastic]

In 18 years the average pg will be 7 foot. The average center will be like Wun Wun.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/20/590x/secondary/Wun-Wun-572208.jpg

[NBAGOAT]

In 1998, no one knew Garnett, Kidd, Duncan, and Kobe would become all time greats. There are going be young players who we know 20 years from now ended up as all time greats.

[3ball]

but the truth is that


First of all, you didn't answer the question - do you think that fans will say Lebron's stats are watered down 20 years from now due to inferior athletes, the way they say Jordan's are?





medicine, nutrition, supplements, and training have improved so players naturally look more athletic. It's not because of evolution or genetic advances.


Those things help with stamina, live longer, and injury recovery, but not athleticism.

Also, I think plenty of players in the 80's and 90's were careful and ate very well - so I don't think nutrition is much better today and supplements don't make a big difference.. If they did, then every grocery bagger at Safeway would go buy a bunch and be jumping out of the gym - but we all know supplements don't do that for anyone.





If you give Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq these benefits they would be more beastly. Heck, Wilt would put Deandre Jordan to shame.


Other than Magic and Bird, everyone you listed would be an elite athlete today - they wouldn't need extra help..

Also, the 1998 all-stars that I listed in the OP - Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Kidd, Garnett, Penny, Grant Hill, Pippen, Penny, Drexler, David Robinson, Hakeem - these guys either crossed over into today's era and/or were better athletes than most of today's players anyway.

[hateraid]

:lol
I hope. No one falls for this. What 3ball is insinuating is that players were more athletic back in Jordan's days so why does Lebron fail with less athletic competition? He's trying to prop up Jordan

His agenda is so transparent. Don't get suckered into a 3ball 10 pager proving MJ had better competition. Talk about "genuine" :lol

[hateraid]

First of all, you didn't answer the question - do you think that fans will say Lebron's stats are watered down 20 years from now due to inferior athletes, the way they say Jordan's are?



Those things help with stamina, live longer, and injury recovery, but not athleticism.

Also, I think plenty of players in the 80's and 90's were careful and ate very well - so I don't think nutrition is much better today and supplements don't make a big difference.. If they did, then everyone we know would go buy a bunch and be jumping out of the gym - but we all know supplements don't do that for anyone.



Other than Magic and Bird, everyone you listed would be an elite athlete today - they wouldn't need extra help..

Also, the 1998 all-stars that I listed in the OP - Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Kidd, Garnett, Penny, Grant Hill, Pippen, Penny, Drexler, David Robinson, Hakeem - these guys either crossed over into today's era and/or were better athletes than most of today's players anyway.
Agenda. Nailed it :lol

[3ball]

In 1998, no one knew Garnett, Kidd, Duncan, and Kobe would become all time greats. There are going be young players who we know 20 years from now ended up as all time greats.
Actually, everyone knew they WOULD be all-time greats..

But apparently, you didn't watch back then.. There's a reason they were all selected as all-stars that year despite being so young.

[pauk]

Appreciating & clinging to only one era & player is not being a basketball fan 3ball.... and yes Jordan is the GOAT, but you need to let him go man... its not healthy... let other players come by and be great without showing your "Yeaaaaa but Jordan did this!!" down our throats, we know, we all know what he did... but we have moved on as basketball fans, let him go, let the era gooooooooo....

I mean even if you cling to one era/player, how the hell does that work as a "basketball fan"? Do you just just re-watch 80s/90s games / Jordan clips-games all day? Fun!?

[NBAGOAT]

Actually, everyone knew they WOULD be all-time greats..

But apparently, you didn't watch back then.. There's a reason they were all selected as all-stars that year despite being so young.

so what you're saying is we all know right now that demarcus cousins, anthony davis, jimmy butler and andre drummond will become all time greats because they're all young all stars. Pls that's absurd. I have a feeling about what your "counterargument" will be already.

[TheOne]

Yes, in general pro athletes will be more athletic in future. Putting MJ in today's league he would be more athletic than the old himself, facing more athletic opponents. But that doesn't take away his competitive edge.

[Poetry]

People think that players are more athletic today, but the truth is that medicine, nutrition, supplements, and training have improved so players naturally look more athletic. It's not because of evolution or genetic advances.

I've read that humans reached their "natural" peak in 1988 and athletic achievement has stagnated ever since.

[3ball]

Putting MJ in today's league he would be more athletic than the old himself


Since jordan was already double-pumping from the FT line with ease in the 80's, how far BEHIND the line do you think he'd be dunking from now??.. My guess is it would be the same.

Players don't evolve as fast as you think they do.. If they did, then players would be dunking from the 3-point line by now, since they were dunking from the FT line in the 80's - Dr. J, Drexler, Jordan, and Pippen all did FT line dunks in 80's dunk contest.

And the furthest dunk behind the FT line happened in the 80's by Mike Conley Sr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXmnV0HoLE8&t=0m7s


Btw, look at the all-stars in 1998: Jordan, Drexler, Pippen, Grant Hill, Penny, Garnett, Shaq, Duncan, Kidd, David Robinson, Hakeem, Kobe - do you really think these guys are inferior athletically?.. That was 18 years ago - so do you think Lebron's stats should be considered watered down in 18 years due to inferior athletes?.. Sounds ridiculous to me, just like it's ridic to say that about Jordan's stats.





in general pro athletes will be more athletic in future.


Athleticism in the NBA took a massive jump when African-Americans were allowed to play.. But those increases settled down once there was full integration, which didn't happen until the 70's - (in the 60's, many teams still had a lot of white players).

By the 80's, the NBA had about the same athleticism as today, which is why Dr. J, Drexler, Jordan, and Pippen all dunked from the FT line in dunk contests during the 80's.

And look at track and field - the American record for the 100 yard dash is the same as when Ben Johnson ran 9.78 in 1988... The Jamaicans are the only country to go lower, and they're a severe anomaly.. The high jump and long jump records have stood for decades too.

Btw, the higher level of euros and international players made the NBA less athletic - and today's NBA also has 10 more teams, so an extra 150 players make today's diluted, watered down league than the 80's...

[jstern]

I think it has to do more with the picture quality of television. Because I remember around 2007 or so teenage Kobe stans saying that Jordan played against inferior athletes so wasn't as good as Kobe. And I'm thinking wow, 1998 wasn't that long ago, and neither was 2002.

But recently I've been seeing a lot of Golden State saying that players from 6, 7 years ago just wouldn't be able to compete in this era. So maybe is just a new lot comes every few years and make the same claims. Young people that see 7 years as a really long time.

[Cali Syndicate]

Appreciating & clinging to only one era & player is not being a basketball fan 3ball.... and yes Jordan is the GOAT, but you need to let him go man... its not healthy... let other players come by and be great without showing your "Yeaaaaa but Jordan did this!!" down our throats, we know, we all know what he did... but we have moved on as basketball fans, let him go, let the era gooooooooo....

I mean even if you cling to one era/player, how the hell does that work as a "basketball fan"? Do you just just re-watch 80s/90s games / Jordan clips-games all day? Fun!?

Watching old school games is definitely entertaining. Why wouldn't it be? The nba has a long history and the 80s-90s was a great era,, which also happened to be where Jordan endured his career. Only reason you don't think it's fun is because you're having to deal with t he fact mj wasnt the flopper you thought he was.

[LeBird]

People think that players are more athletic today, but the truth is that medicine, nutrition, supplements, and training have improved so players naturally look more athletic. It's not because of evolution or genetic advances.

If you give Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq these benefits they would be more beastly. Heck, Wilt would put Deandre Jordan to shame.

They don't look more athletic, they are more athletic.

But Basketball is not athletics, it is a sport that requires skill. That's why Steph Curry had a greater offensive season than any Jordan had despite the difference in pure athletic ability.

[TheReal Kendall]

Honestly I feel like in basketball after like the 70s the athleticism of the players are pretty much at the same level.

I say this cause you can always find counterpart to a player from today to one back then. The players really just are more flashy now with less skills.

In football I would say that's a different story at least it feels like that.

[Nuff Said]

:lol
I hope. No one falls for this. What 3ball is insinuating is that players were more athletic back in Jordan's days so why does Lebron fail with less athletic competition? He's trying to prop up Jordan

His agenda is so transparent. Don't get suckered into a 3ball 10 pager proving MJ had better competition. Talk about "genuine" :lol
Where did you even get that from? Damn the comprehension skills are severely lacking.

[diamenz]

in 18 years, players, supplements and training will be even more advanced than it is now. today's game will be laughed at because players will be able to get across the court in 2 dribbles and halfcourt shots will be considered as high percentage.

[CTbasketball92]

.
MJ won his last ring 18 years ago in 1998 - so 18 years from now, will you be saying Lebron's stats are watered down because he played against inferior athletes?


FYI - Jordan won MVP over the following all-stars in 1998:


Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, Duncan, Kobe, Grant Hill, Drexler, Pippen, Penny, Payton, David Robinson, Hakeem, Alonzo and more..


That sounds like a much better list than today's top 10 MVP vote-getters: http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2016.html

High schoolers were doing Vince Carter dunks 5 years after he did them. Now 16 year olds are windmilling from the freethrow line. Kids are running 10 flat 100m dash times at 18, 19 years old. People are getting more and more athletic and there's nothing really arguing against it. The best athletes in the 1980s would still be elite today, and even improved, but the average today is greater. Steph. Curry has at least a 36 inch vertical, which would've been considered somewhat elite in the 80s' 90s, and even he can easily do a 360, which scouts praised michael jordan for being able to do in high school.

MJ would be an even greater athlete today, but as is I'd say a 1990 MJ would still be right there with Westbrook and LeBron pretty easily. I think LeBron and others are reaching close to the peak of human capability for a while. Usain Bolt's 9.58 100m is so absurd, I can't see anyone running a 9.4 or 9.3 100m. It just might not be possible. It might not be possible for Aaron Gordon or LeBron or westbrook to ever be seen as unathletic.

So no, I don't. Maybe 50 years from now.

[ClipperRevival]

There's no doubt the league is more athletic across the league than its ever been. But what some people don't understand is that bball isn't just a game of pure athleticism, like a sprint. It requires skills, feel for the game, bball IQ, etc. And the way the game is going with the lack of emphasis on the fundamentals is hurting the overall NBA product. We aren't seeing the game at the highest level. When the so called best team of this era doesn't have one guy who can score inside the 3 point line against a set D, that rests my case.

[riseagainst]

But Lebron is just a flat out better basketball player than MJ. Sure he isn't #1 yet on the GOAT list above MJ because he only has 3 chips compared to MJ's 6 as their teams' best players.

[bdreason]

If anything, Humans are becoming less athletic over time, because our social construct allows physically inferior people to survive and breed at a higher rate.

[ClipperRevival]

But Lebron is just a flat out better basketball player than MJ. Sure he isn't #1 yet on the GOAT list above MJ because he only has 3 chips compared to MJ's 6 as their teams' best players.

:roll:

[NumberSix]

So you're telling me that Tim Duncan didn't win the MVP in his first season? Kobe didn't win the MVP when he was a bench player?

[lilteapot]

OP doesn't prove that players nowadays are less athletic. It's just a bunch of nonsense.

It's an OBJECTIVE fact that players nowadays are quicker, faster, bigger with more versatile skill sets, and are stronger, better ball handlers.

[eliteballer]

Players as a whole might be marginally more athletic, but look at guys like Love, Curry, the Spurs this year, etc.

Talent and skill will always take precedence.

[CuterThanRubio]

Random white kids in college gyms are dunking from the free throw line nowadays, this thread is not based in reality~!

[sundizz]

It's basic math you imbecile. There is a much much much much larger pool of talent. This doesn't affect the ten or so best players in the league - those would be stars in any era pretty much. It does affect how good the rest of the league is though. As bad as Barnes was this playoff he is miles better than say Byron Russell (who would be a good comparison player).

[KiiiiNG]

What pisses Jordan fans off about LeBron is that LeBron makes it look easy with his superior size, athleticism, ball-handling, and passing compared to Jordan. LeBron is naturally a better player and athlete compare to Jordan and it drives them nuts.

They wish Jordan was The Chosen One. But LeBron's the one and only. Jordan was a 3rd pick with a chip on his shoulder. LeBron's been the best since he was a freshman in High School. LeBron is physically, mentally, and socially superior to Jordan.

[Dray n Klay]

What pisses Jordan fans off about LeBron is that LeBron makes it look easy with his superior size, athleticism, ball-handling, and passing compared to Jordan. LeBron is naturally a better player and athlete compare to Jordan and it drives them nuts.

They wish Jordan was The Chosen One. But LeBron's the one and only. Jordan was a 3rd pick with a chip on his shoulder. LeBron's been the best since he was a freshman in High School. LeBron is physically, mentally, and socially superior to Jordan.

Amazing Post :applause: :banana: