A lot of you guys are ignorant about the triangle

[3ball]

.
It was an "equal opportunity" offense, which meant the positions on the floor were largely interchangeable - everybody made the same cuts - Kerr made the same cuts as Jordan.

Most importantly, virtually any player on the court (except maybe the center) could "initiate" the triangle, which entailed making the first pass to the wing or post (and then cutting) - that's what guys like Jordan and Pippen did by "initiating" the offense, and other players like Kerr, Harper or Kukoc did the exact same thing.. Here's a video showing how all players "initiated" the offense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUiXwNtgV2k


Also, every player on the team could be on the RECEIVING end of the "initiating" pass to the wing or post - after catching that pass, they had the option of handing off to a cutter, shooting or otherwise passing (see the video above) - guys like Kerr and Longley would hand-off most of the time, while guys like Jordan and Pippen would shoot more.

So this notion that certain guys initiated the offense or "ran" the offense is not true - all players had the responsibility of initiating the offense, and no one "ran" it.

[MoBe1Kanobi]

bro its crazy how all u do is promote equal opportunity intrinsically good and fundamental basketball and all you get labeled as is a jordan stan pyschopath who is hell bent on not letting anyone destroy the legacy of mj

when in reality

guys like mj kobe shaq etc played in offenses that were enhanced because they were in it rather than having entire offenses built around the exploitation of specific limited skillsets within our players nowadays ala Warriors 3PT chuckfest ball and drive n kick ball for lebron

the reality is, yes, jordan averaged 35-40ppg at one point similar to what lebron has did at times throughout his career... only difference is jordan kobe shaq, etc put their numbers up entirely in spite of the way they had to limit their exploratative opportunities due to the nature of their offense DEMANDING the inclusion of all the players

guys like lbj, curry, great players but they are literally given EVERY opportunity to accrue scoring numbers due to how they're teams are not teams at all nowadays but simply promotional groups to help build up the storyline of 1-3 players and the basketball STRATEGY on the court reflects this

again bro, its sad cause everything u say about MJ is true but as soon as lebron drops a 30, 8, 8 game on 50% FG all the ESPN heads are gonna continue to rape the nba fan with their incessant need to promote new players over old mainly by hiring analysts that know how to disguise their uninformed ignorant opinions as "professional" and "close to the story"

:coleman: :confusedshrug:

[Nilocon165]

You're ignorant about the fact that nobody takes your posts seriously

[97 bulls]

.
It was an "equal opportunity" offense, which meant the positions on the floor were largely interchangeable - everybody made the same cuts - Kerr made the same cuts as Jordan.

Most importantly, virtually any player on the court (except maybe the center) could "initiate" the triangle, which entailed making the first pass to the wing or post (and then cutting) - that's what guys like Jordan and Pippen did by "initiating" the offense, and other players like Kerr, Harper or Kukoc did the exact same thing.. Here's a video showing how all players "initiated" the offense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUiXwNtgV2k


Also, every player on the team could be on the RECEIVING end of the "initiating" pass to the wing or post - after catching that pass, they had the option of handing off to a cutter, shooting or otherwise passing (see the video above) - guys like Kerr and Longley would hand-off most of the time, while guys like Jordan and Pippen would shoot more.

So this notion that certain guys initiated the offense or "ran" the offense is not true - all players had the responsibility of initiating the offense, and no one "ran" it.
Who dictates where they're gonna set it up?????? Pippen. And there's different variations of the triangle. Yes it's an equal opportunity offense and everyone must be on the same page, but someone has to dictate where they're gonna run it. Thus the term "initiate".

[97 bulls]

This video shows the different variations of the triangle as well as where it's run.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1YJsxMcAJoA

[Bankaii]

It's crazy how you're so technical on everything yet you're also always inaccurate.

The players aren't robots, and some of the players had more freedom than others. Pippen had that freedom but was still limited by Phil, and Jordan obviously had free reign to do as he wished.
Although it's and equal opportunity offense everyone didn't have equal freedom. Do you really think Kerr had the freedom to take as many shots as MJ?

Another thing is that they don't always walk up the court and get right into the triangle. They have to reset the offense and set it up at various areas of the court. Pippen was the one that did that. As well as the fact that if the play broke down Pippen had the ability to make the right play and keep the offense in motion.

Your attempt to downplay Pippen's ATG play making ability is so pathetic.

[FKAri]

Im just copy paste this in every one of your threads from now on:

Someone on Lebron's team played poor?
-"lebron ball diminishes teammates"
-OP makes this thread:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411794

Someone on Lebron's team played well?
-"team is stacked; he has more help than anyone in history"
OP makes this thread:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411790

:lol

[3ball]

Im just copy paste this in every one of your threads from now on:

Someone on Lebron's team played poor?
-"lebron ball diminishes teammates"
-OP makes this thread:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411794

Someone on Lebron's team played well?
-"team is stacked; he has more help than anyone in history"
OP makes this thread:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411790

:lol
Kyrie is the only star teammate that played better WITH Lebron in the playoffs - his performance was so extraordinary for a 2nd option, that I made a thread about it and pointed out how much better he played than Pippen ever did.

But Lebron mostly makes star teammates worse in the playoffs: Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Mo Williams, and Kevin Love - that's 4 all-stars (4 times what Jordan played with) - they all played worse with Lebron in the playoffs - so yeah, that's threadworthy too
.

[3ball]

Although it's and equal opportunity offense everyone didn't have equal freedom. Do you really think Kerr had the freedom to take as many shots as MJ?


The thing that makes the offense "equal opportunity" is that everyone makes the same cuts, everyone initiates the offense by making the first pass to the wing or post, and everyone catches the ball on the post and has the option of passing, handing off, or shooting.

So technically, everyone has the same OPPORTUNITY... But within these movements, certain players will be more CAPABLE to shoot and make plays - that's why guys like Kerr and Longley mostly hand-off when they catch it on the post, while guys like Jordan and Pippen will shoot more often.

And sure, Pippen and Jordan had the freedom to break the offense completely if they want - but only Jordan did that with any consistency, particularly at the end of shot clocks when the Bulls would just put the ball in his hands to make a play.

[Bankaii]

Kyrie is the only star teammate that played better WITH Lebron in the playoffs - his performance was so extraordinary for a 2nd option, that I made a thread about it and pointed out how much better he played than Pippen ever did.

But Lebron mostly makes star teammates worse in the playoffs: Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Mo Williams, and Kevin Love - that's 5 all-stars (5 times what Jordan played with) - they all played worse with Lebron in the playoffs - so yeah, that's threadworthy too
You aren't even aware of your own bullshit:roll:

[90sgoat]

Most of you guys would do well to actually read what 3Ball is writing.

The way the triangle works is completely different from how 9/10 teams play in the NBA which is heavily based upon one or two players getting p'n'r from the top.

Triangle is a beautiful system which produced very entertaining ball and yes it is a system which requires a great deal of bball IQ to run AND the willingness to be part of the team.

It's a system made for high IQ talented players. It keeps their touches in check and letting everyone touch the ball, while still giving lots of semi-isos at the top of the key.

Compare the constant ball movement of the Bulls triangle to the 'stand and watch in the corner' of Lebron ball. No contest.

[3ball]

You aren't even aware of your own bullshit:roll:
it's a typo, which i fixed

i'm bound to have some, don't you think?

#graspingatstraws

[Da_Realist]

bro its crazy how all u do is promote equal opportunity intrinsically good and fundamental basketball and all you get labeled as is a jordan stan pyschopath who is hell bent on not letting anyone destroy the legacy of mj

when in reality

guys like mj kobe shaq etc played in offenses that were enhanced because they were in it rather than having entire offenses built around the exploitation of specific limited skillsets within our players nowadays ala Warriors 3PT chuckfest ball and drive n kick ball for lebron

the reality is, yes, jordan averaged 35-40ppg at one point similar to what lebron has did at times throughout his career... only difference is jordan kobe shaq, etc put their numbers up entirely in spite of the way they had to limit their exploratative opportunities due to the nature of their offense DEMANDING the inclusion of all the players

guys like lbj, curry, great players but they are literally given EVERY opportunity to accrue scoring numbers due to how they're teams are not teams at all nowadays but simply promotional groups to help build up the storyline of 1-3 players and the basketball STRATEGY on the court reflects this

again bro, its sad cause everything u say about MJ is true but as soon as lebron drops a 30, 8, 8 game on 50% FG all the ESPN heads are gonna continue to rape the nba fan with their incessant need to promote new players over old mainly by hiring analysts that know how to disguise their uninformed ignorant opinions as "professional" and "close to the story"

:coleman: :confusedshrug:

I didn't miss this gem :applause:

[Bankaii]

it's a typo, which i fixed

i'm bound to have some, don't you think?

#graspingatstraws
It wasn't a typo. You've used Kyrie times before as an example to push your "Lebron makes teammates worse" agenda.

This year's postseason completely debunks that bullshit though.
If you actually typed out arguments instead of copy/pasting them maybe your info would be a little updated.

[Hey Yo]

Kyrie is the only star teammate that played better WITH Lebron in the playoffs - his performance was so extraordinary for a 2nd option, that I made a thread about it and pointed out how much better he played than Pippen ever did.

But Lebron mostly makes star teammates worse in the playoffs: Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Mo Williams, and Kevin Love - that's 4 all-stars (4 times what Jordan played with) - they all played worse with Lebron in the playoffs - so yeah, that's threadworthy too
.
So your saying LeBron's championship wins were tougher? More of a one man show?


Making an All-NBA team >>>>> being voted an all-star.

[3ball]

bro its crazy how all u do is promote equal opportunity intrinsically good and fundamental basketball and all you get labeled as is a jordan stan pyschopath who is hell bent on not letting anyone destroy the legacy of mj

when in reality

guys like mj kobe shaq etc played in offenses that were enhanced because they were in it rather than having entire offenses built around the exploitation of specific limited skillsets within our players nowadays ala Warriors 3PT chuckfest ball and drive n kick ball for lebron

the reality is, yes, jordan averaged 35-40ppg at one point similar to what lebron has did at times throughout his career... only difference is jordan kobe shaq, etc put their numbers up entirely in spite of the way they had to limit their exploratative opportunities due to the nature of their offense DEMANDING the inclusion of all the players

guys like lbj, curry, great players but they are literally given EVERY opportunity to accrue scoring numbers due to how they're teams are not teams at all nowadays but simply promotional groups to help build up the storyline of 1-3 players and the basketball STRATEGY on the court reflects this

again bro, its sad cause everything u say about MJ is true but as soon as lebron drops a 30, 8, 8 game on 50% FG all the ESPN heads are gonna continue to rape the nba fan with their incessant need to promote new players over old mainly by hiring analysts that know how to disguise their uninformed ignorant opinions as "professional" and "close to the story"

:coleman: :confusedshrug:


Nice post.. You're right - Jordan accomplished his league-leading scoring within an offense where everyone has the same cuts and movements!!!

Everyone has equal opportunity!!... That's a stark contrast to Lebron holding the ball for as long as he wants until he finds something..

It's crazy to contemplate the level of skill required to lead the league in scoring in an "equal-opportunity" offense.

Otoh, Lebron held the ball for a disgusting 12.0 minutes (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) per game in the 2015 Finals, which was an utterly insane 50% higher than the RS leader John Wall's 8.2 minutes (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season).. In the 2016 Finals, he held the ball for 7.5 minutes (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) per game, which would put him among the top 5 point guards in RS.. It's funny how people give Lebron's stats the utmost props even though he holds the ball longer than anyone else.