Just watched some of the Bulls-Suns 1993 series

[Trollsmasher]

My God, LeBron would score 50 per game on that shit tier defense. Heck, Durant or Kobe would come close to doing that too. It's fvcking funny watching this kind of prehistoric basketball in 2016:lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8MP6839B78

I mean you only need to look at how that first shot is defended to see what a bunch of idiots those coaches and players were when it came to defense:lol

Weak contests all around, no resistance at the rim (notice how the offensive bigs just push the defenders out of the way in the paint, making the path completely free), if you make more than two passes you get an open shot...

shit was ez af, yo:lol

[Asukal]

Just watched G7 "highlights" of the 2016 finals....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgr4JFZtoKw

My Gad, MJ would score 100 per game on that shit tier defense. Heck, Barkley or Olajuwon would come close to doing that too. It's fvcking funny watching this kind of weak modern basketball.

I mean you only need to look at how that first shot is defended to see what a bunch of idiots those coaches and players were when it came to defense.

Weak contests all around, no resistance at the rim (notice how lebron stiff arms his way to the basket), if you make more than two passes you get an open shot...

shit was ez af, yo :hammerhead:

[Trollsmasher]

https://therdsports.com/2013/06/19/the-mythic-1990s/

required reading for kids and nostalgic mj stans right here

Defenses today are objectively superior to the past ones by every conceivable measure


First off, you’ll probably notice that Bill Laimbeer deters Jordan from finishing around the rim about as well as my office’s “no Youtube” policy keeps me from watching KBlaze mixtapes on slow afternoons. But besides Laimbeer’s awful individual effort, there are a number of instances in which the Pistons, as a team, wait for Jordan to make his move before taking action to stop him from scoring. Also, the on-ball defender seems to have no plan for where to push Jordan. Often Dumars et al play him straight, and [lets] Jordan decide where he wants to go. …

Even a cursory examination of these two tapes will prove that the Celtics’ intricate strategy is far superior to the Pistons’ organized thuggery. In the first minutes of the clip above, the Celtics are called for two defensive three-second violations because they are preemptively over-rotating to fill the spaces LeBron would like to use. Bron still managed to have an excellent game, but you can see the foundation of how the Celtics were able to force him out of simply exploding past his defender to the basket.

Although ‘89 Jordan may be able to escape his first defender more easily in today’s game [due to his thoughts on hand-checking], good defensive teams would employ more aggressive and nuanced schemes to keep him from the hoop. Ultimately, it’s these second and third lines of defense that matter most. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are still average defenders at best, but they can apply heavy pressure to quicker offensive players far away from the hoop because the Boston Big Men are ready to aggressively rotate. Modern defenses force wing scorers like LeBron, Kobe, and Wade to analyze layers of team defense in a way Jordan didn’t. Add that to the advances in statistics and scouting, and NBA defenses know more than ever about a scorer’s preferences and habits.

The numbers and video don’t lie. Jordan would have to ball futuristic just to maintain his 1989 scoring levels against the evolved, more sophisticated defenses and slower offensive pace of today’s NBA.

[3ball]

My God, that shit tier defense.



Lebron enjoys a wide open paint on every possession due to 3-point shooters that draw defenders out of the paint, and also defensive 3 seconds:


https://media.giphy.com/media/SBoU7XAFaW4nK/giphy.gif



Otoh, Jordan faced a packed paint because he didn't have 3-point shooting teammates and paint-camping was legal:


http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2015/B_wITa.gif



Furthermore, today's rules say that Iggy can't "affect a player's movement" in any way by hand-checking - easy game:


https://media.giphy.com/media/Nk5px4380siVa/giphy.gif



Otoh, Jordan's movement is significantly impeded by legal hand-checking - hard game:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/V2-pAN.gif



It couldn't be clearer - Jordan played in a tougher environment - today's game looks like child's play with the wide open spacing and hands-off defense.. It's a joke..

That's why most pundits, coaches and also current or former players say Jordan would average 40 in today's game..

[inclinerator]

Just watched G7 "highlights" of the 2016 finals....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgr4JFZtoKw

My Gad, MJ would score 100 per game on that shit tier defense. Heck, Barkley or Olajuwon would come close to doing that too. It's fvcking funny watching this kind of weak modern basketball.

I mean you only need to look at how that first shot is defended to see what a bunch of idiots those coaches and players were when it came to defense.

Weak contests all around, no resistance at the rim (notice how lebron stiff arms his way to the basket), if you make more than two passes you get an open shot...

shit was ez af, yo :hammerhead:

:eek: that physical defense, every single play had body on body contact

[3ball]

:eek: that physical defense, every single play had body on body contact
child's play compared to previous eras..

it's interesting that you say body-on-body - it's nothing like previous eras.

today's rules mandate space between defender and offensive player in many spots on the court - this makes the game look weird with no one touching or banging into each other - the space between players and wide open spacing from 3-pointers makes the setup look like a marching band or dance routine, not a ballgame.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Suns defense wasn't all that - true. I always thought their frontcourt was small and Jordan had a layup brigade because of it.

If you want to see great defense and physicality, just watch MJ pulverizing the Knicks and/or Pistons; teams he also torched.

[Trollsmasher]

just a takedown after takedown

[QUOTE]In today

[3ball]

I always thought their frontcourt was small and Jordan had a layup brigade because of it.


Even though the Suns didn't have a towering front line, it was as big as the Warriors, and Jordan faced more defenders in the paint, due to the lack of 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds.

This is undeniable - when he caught the ball on the perimeter, he didn't see a wide open paint like today's player sees - he saw BODIES and no spacing.

[Trollsmasher]

Even though the Suns didn't have a towering front line, Jordan still faced more defenders in the paint, due to the lack of 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds.

This is undeniable - when he caught the ball on the perimeter, he didn't see a wide open paint like today's player sees - he saw BODIES - the paint defense was superior back then due to the lack of spacing.
that "packed paint" was mostly just dudes standing around, boxing out each other and paying no mind to the slashing player

https://youtu.be/x8MP6839B78?t=2m18s

also featuring Dan "All NBA Defense" Majerle:roll:

[inclinerator]

honestly who is 3balls trying to fool

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Even though the Suns didn't have a towering front line, it was as big as the Warriors, and Jordan faced more defenders in the paint, due to the lack of 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds.

This is undeniable - when he caught the ball on the perimeter, he didn't see a wide open paint like today's player sees - he saw BODIES and no spacing.

Mark West and Barkley were NOT as 'big' of a front line as Bogut/Ezeli/Draymond. Their front line wasn't nearly as effective on defense either.

Come on, lets be serious for a minute. :oldlol:

[andgar923]

Yeah.... F*ck MJ for having the ability to move without the ball, read and react before the doubles arrive, be smart enough to recognize mismatch and know how to take advantage, have the skills to get better looks and be athletic as f*ck to make triple and double teams appear non-existent.

The Sund threw everything at him, they simply couldn't defend him.

Majerle was a good defender even late in his career in the 2k era.
Ainge was known to be tough.
Dumas was tall and athletic.
KJ was quick on his feet.

They attempted double and triple teams but it didn't matter.

Btw the game posted was after MJ struggled and they lost. This was a statement game.

[3ball]

just a takedown after takedown


You posted an article, which is someone's opinion of the rules - the article doesn't shot the ACTUAL rules, which I will post shortly.

That article is sheer opinion, like you say my posts are, except my posts include the ACTUAL rules, so the reader and see that my interpretation is correct.
.

[3ball]

Mark West and Barkley were NOT as 'big' of a front line as Bogut/Ezeli/Draymond. Their front line wasn't near as effective on defense either.

Come on, lets be serious for a minute. :oldlol:
don't leave out oliver miller, who was a very good shot blocker - miller, west, barkley, chambers and Dumas is about the same size as the Warriors, and those guys were allowed to be more physical and stay in the paint longer, due to more lenient defensive rules.

also, Jordan faced more defenders in the paint, due to the lack of 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds.. This is undeniable - when he caught the ball on the perimeter, he didn't see a wide open paint like today's player sees - he saw BODIES and no spacing.

[3ball]

that "packed paint" was mostly just dudes standing around, boxing out each other and paying no mind to the slashing player

https://youtu.be/x8MP6839B78?t=2m18s

also featuring Dan "All NBA Defense" Majerle:roll:


Lebron's teammates wouldn't be spacing the floor for him via 3-pointers in the 80's or 90's - the floor setup in those no-spacing environments was COMPLETELY different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot rather than get to the rim because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Here's a reminder of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration isn't possible, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange..

This is the primary reason Lebron would be worse back then - his lack of midrange shooting ability - virtually ALL great perimeter scorers in the 80's and 90's had great midrange (just look at the top 10 scorers from 1985 or any year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html) in the 80's or 90's - everyone had great midrange).. But in today's game, it's statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) that most of the top perimeter scorers don't have good midrange jumpshots, because the spacing and hands-off defense allows them easier access to the rim.

[Dray n Klay]

The Suns defense was horrible

[3ball]

.
Rule 2e of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to sag off into the paint for 2.9 seconds when guarding someone standing behind the 3-point line, just like today's defenders:



2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than 2.9 seconds.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html



That's why every game from previous eras shows defenders routinely sagging off their man just like today's game.. But the real coup was when an offensive player was BELOW the 3-point line but above the FT line, since his defender could paint camp for as long as they wanted in the "middle defensive area" (upper part of the paint):



2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the free throw line extended "upper defensive area", his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds


Otoh, when today's offensive player is between the FT line and 3-point line, the defender can only dip into the paint for 2.9 seconds, per the defensive 3 second rule - they can't stay in the "middle defensive area" (upper part of the paint) as long as they want like previous era defenders.

[Nilocon165]

.
Defenders in previous eras were allowed to sag off into the paint for 2.9 seconds when guarding someone standing behind the 3-point line, just like today's defenders:



2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than 2.9 seconds.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html



That's why every game from previous eras shows defenders routinely sagging off their man just like today's game.. But the real coup was when an offensive player was BELOW the 3-point line but above the FT line, since his defender could paint camp for as long as they wanted in the "middle defensive area" (upper part of the paint):



2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the free throw line extended "upper defensive area", his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds


Otoh, when today's offensive player is between the FT line and 3-point line, the defender can only dip into the paint for 2.9 seconds, per the defensive 3 second rule - they can't stay in the "middle defensive area" (upper part of the paint) as long as they want like previous era defenders.

i don't know a lot about sports but didn't Jordan go 1-9 without Pippen

[3ball]

i don't know a lot about sports but doesn't today's NBA ban paint-camping



Today's defender must remain within "armslength" of an offensive player to remain in the paint - so they cannot stand under the rim while their man is 8 feet away on the block, since that's out of "armslength":



A defensive player is not allowed inside the key area for more than three seconds unless he is guarding the player with the ball or is actively guarding any opponent. To be considered actively guarding, a defender must be within an arms length of an opponent. If an offensive player moves through the key, the defender must be within an arms length, and also move along with the offensive player. He can not just stand there and put his arms out to get a new three second count.

http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html



But in previous eras, defenders were allowed to stand under the rim while their man was on the block because defenders could paint-camp "with no time limitation" when their man was within 3 feet of the lane on either side:



2b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.



See the difference here, where Pau is reaching out his arm to stay within "armslength" of Duncan on the block, so he can't contest Kawhi at the rim:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-01-2015/-GwNKZ.gif



Here's another example - Maurice Speights must follow Tristan Thompson to the block to stay within "armslength", which prevents him from contesting Lebron at the rim - you can see how wide the paint is on this angle (16 feet wide).


https://media.giphy.com/media/qoijGMUGGV4dO/giphy.gif



But in previous eras, defenders didn't have to be within "armslength" - they could camp under the rim while their man was on the block (and up to 3 feet outside the lane), so Kawhi would NOT have gotten a wide open dunk:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-01-2015/Rc9D-4.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-01-2015/mPufIB.gif

[CuterThanRubio]

That was despicable!

20 seconds into the video and Jordan is getting freebies in the FINALS!

Single coverage by Majerle and Kevin Johnson, what a travesty, terrible coaching and stupid illegal defense rules forced the Suns into an unwinnable situation.

Jordan would NEVER see single coverage in 2016, he'd be D-Wade with worse passing.

3ball loves to ramble on about paint camping, but look at the LACK of awareness, Tom Chambers is lingering under the basket with his arms down, great strategy!

You can't deny VISUAL EVIDENCE, these 80s and 90s DENIERS need a refresher course!

The quality of basketball during that era is not accurately depicted in their posts!

"Handchecking and paint camping, todays league is soft LeBron would never last"

*Presses play on any 90s NBA video and sees slow white guys giving up layups all game

:hammerhead:

[3ball]

.
Lebron can't bulldoze THROUGH players, which is what he would need to penetrate against the overcrowded paints in previous eras


https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif


Since he can't go THROUGH players, he'd need a better midrange jumpshot, just like everyone else back then.. But his midrange is horrible, so he wouldn't be as good in a no-spacing environment.

[Trollsmasher]

i don't know a lot about sports but didn't Jordan go 1-9 without Pippen
he did

he also has a losing record for his entire career without Pippen

190-194

lil boy got his shit pushed in until the great teams of the 80s went over the hill and the league got watered down by expansion teams

[CuterThanRubio]

.
Lebron can't bulldoze THROUGH players, which is what he would need to penetrate against the overcrowded paints in previous eras


https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif


Since he can't go THROUGH players, he'd need a better midrange jumpshot, just like everyone else back then.


http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/11/16/131115-lebronfadeaway2.gif

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-James-4th-Quarter-Shot-Gm-7-NBA-Finals.gif

[3ball]

.
Rule 2e of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to sag off into the paint for 2.9 seconds when guarding someone standing behind the 3-point line, just like today's defenders:



2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than 2.9 seconds.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html



That's why every game from previous eras shows defenders routinely sagging off their man just like today's game.. But the real coup was when an offensive player was BELOW the 3-point line but above the FT line, since his defender could paint camp for as long as they wanted in the "middle defensive area" (upper part of the paint):



2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the free throw line extended "upper defensive area", his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds


Otoh, when today's offensive player is between the FT line and 3-point line, the defender can only dip into the paint for 2.9 seconds, per the defensive 3 second rule - they can't stay in the "middle defensive area" (upper part of the paint) as long as they want like previous era defenders.


Rule 2e (described above) applies to strongside defenders..

Rule 2a applies to weakside defenders, and it allowed defenders to paint-camp indefinitely in the "outside" lane when sagging off corner/sideline 3-point shooters (the outside lane is the outer partition running up both sides of the paint):


2a. Weakside defenders may be in a defensive position within the "outside lane" with no time limit, and within the "Inside lane" for 2.9 seconds. The defensive player must re-establish a position with both feet out of the "Insidelane" to be considered as having legally cleared the restricted area.


Today's paint doesn't even have an "outside" lane - the paint is all one because defenders have a maximum of 3 seconds no matter what part of the paint they're in.

[Dray n Klay]

The Suns defense was horrible

[3ball]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/11/16/131115-lebronfadeaway2.gif


...NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
..(all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)



.......................Midrange Efficiency .

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202
M Jordan. 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 43.2%.. 476/1101

Lebron.. 2004 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 33.2%.. 183/551
Lebron.. 2005 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.0%.. 217/602
Lebron.. 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.4%.. 242/630
Lebron.. 2007 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 35.1%.. 204/581
Lebron.. 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259


Lebron's midrange percentage is below 40% for 10 of 13 seasons and his career 3-point percentage is only 32% in the playoffs.

The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler ALL (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) have poor midrange and 3-point efficiency, but they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows good athletes easier access to the rim.

MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he had better midrange efficiency than Curry (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12438405&postcount=31), which gives him a massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.. MJ had Lebron/Westbrook's athleticism, with better midrange shooting than Steph Curry.. That's the goat

[Spurs m8]

Lets see if LeBron stans act like bigger f*ckwits than Curry fans did this season just gone....surely not....

[Hey Yo]

that "packed paint" was mostly just dudes standing around, boxing out each other and paying no mind to the slashing player

https://youtu.be/x8MP6839B78?t=2m18s

also featuring Dan "All NBA Defense" Majerle:roll:
The master rim protector, Oliver Miller, is dumbfounded how to handle Jordan.

:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

3ball seriously used Oliver Fat F*ckin' Miller to compare the front line of the 93 Suns...to present day Golden State.

You cannot make this shit up. :oldlol:

I'm not even debating team strength or competition. Only that the Warriors had a superior front line, which they did. :confusedshrug:

[JohnMax]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-finals-bulls-vs-suns.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1993.html

[Da_Realist]

My God, LeBron would score 50 per game on that shit tier defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8MP6839B78

Hilarious. Lebron wouldn't do sh*t. The Suns strategy, except for game 4, was to make MJ beat them from the outside. His drive and midrange game scared them to death. :oldlol:

If they tried that same strategy on Lebron he would have to face his greatest enemy, the Wide Open Jumpshot!

Make sure you look at how MJ moved in the triangle -- cutting, screening, popping out, etc, to get good looks at the basket. You'll never see Lebron move like that. He would palm the ball, jab step, jab step, jab step, do his awkward dribble between his legs thing where he's still in the same spot after he finishes before he shoots an off balance, ugly, falling away jumpshot prayer. :lol

[90sgoat]

The Suns defense was horrible

You are horrible, waste of space, you're lucky to not be banned.

[livinglegend]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
WTF was the defense?
And that teams made the finals with that defense:roll:

[Dray n Klay]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
WTF was the defense?
And that teams made the finals with that defense:roll:

:roll: :roll:

[Poetry]

If anyone was wondering what the pace was for that series...

1993 NBA Finals (89.7)
2015 NBA Finals (90.7)
2016 NBA Finals (92.0)

[AirBonner]

3ball seriously used Oliver Fat F*ckin' Miller to compare the front line of the 93 Suns...to present day Golden State.

You cannot make this shit up. :oldlol:

I'm not even debating team strength or competition. Only that the Warriors had a superior front line, which they did. :confusedshrug:
This. 3ball is a crock just like the competition that Ordan faced.

[Da_Realist]

Can anybody dispute the vids that 3ball posted? They back up what he is saying. It sure looks like Lebron routinely had wide open lanes to drive in. I can only surmise what MJ would do with a toll-free lane straight to the basket.

[livinglegend]

Apart from the extremly bad defense, another thing to notice is how they call fouls for Jordan with little contact.
If those kind of fouls were called in this year's finals, both teams would foul out.

[Dray n Klay]

Did I mention that the Suns defense was horrible?

[bigkingsfan]

Might as well be playing patty cake out there.

[madmax]

The master rim protector, Oliver Miller, is dumbfounded how to handle Jordan.

:roll:

:lol :roll:

[3ball]

Might as well be playing patty cake out there.



How can you guys think THIS (wide open paints):


https://media.giphy.com/media/SBoU7XAFaW4nK/giphy.gif



tougher than THIS (packed paints):


http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2015/B_wITa.gif



Ignorance and a blindness to the facts, that's how

[3ball]

The master rim protector, Oliver Miller, is dumbfounded how to handle Jordan.

:roll:



You guys talk shit, but you know nothing about the game - you should be ****ing embarrassed



..............................................Oliv er Miller........ Andrew Bogut

Career Blocks per 100....................3.4........................ 2.8
Career Block Percentage................4.7%.................... .4.3%



You guys should know that bigs in previous eras were far superior - Oliver Miller would view today's frontcourts as like, JV or something

[julizaver]

My God, LeBron would score 50 per game on that shit tier defense. Heck, Durant or Kobe would come close to doing that too. It's fvcking funny watching this kind of prehistoric basketball in 2016:lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8MP6839B78

I mean you only need to look at how that first shot is defended to see what a bunch of idiots those coaches and players were when it came to defense:lol

Weak contests all around, no resistance at the rim (notice how the offensive bigs just push the defenders out of the way in the paint, making the path completely free), if you make more than two passes you get an open shot...

shit was ez af, yo:lol

Suns were not famous with their defense at that time. During those years teams in the east were better defensively. Just as a note. If someone one to watch defense just see the Knicks Bulls games.

[Bawkish]

seems like most of Bron's stans today knew more about trolling rather than posting legit basketball knowledge.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dude, I was ABOUT to make this thread... crazy, brother...

That defense is so terrible.. either late to close out or easy to blow by.

[diamenz]

of course the defense looks like shit - jordan was carving it up.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Defense? I don't see any defense in that vid

[andgar923]

Bron stans mad that MJ was simply too skilled, had a higher IQ, and was a superior athlete.

That's basically what it comes down to.

MJ repeatedly beat doubles/traps/triple teams with his IQ court awareness.
He moved without the ball to get open looks.
Attacked before the defense settled.
Used a variety of jab steps, pump fakes, cross overs and other moves to get better looks.
He beat the defense before they settled with his elite quickness and speed.

Meanwhile Bron takes forever making decisions. He has no footwork, mediocre first step, no balance, can't move without the ball, bad court awareness and decision making, his only move is the Jerome Bettis bulldoze full steam ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpC9Yqf5vJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8fV9DFkJ_A

There is NO comparison.

Bron is 4 feet from the rim and he passes the ball!!!

He misses layups terribly.

Bron needs to take multiple dribbles and time to back up Curry:facepalm
Can't blow by big men:facepalm
Instead of pump faking to get a better mid range shot, he settles for 3s with 10 seconds on the clock:facepalm

FACT is, Bron simply dribbles too much, is slow making decisions, lacks explosiveness, footwork, skills

Seriously a 6'8 260 pound "Athletic" monster that can't take advantage of Curry?

The Suns MJ faced may not have been the best defense from that era, but it was still better than what Bron faces.

Just think about how KJ would've locked up Bron, let alone Majerle an all defensive team member still locking up people in the 2k era.

[andgar923]

of course the defense looks like shit - jordan was carving it up.

this

Bron makes weak defense look great tho

[3ball]

The master rim protector, Oliver Miller, is dumbfounded how to handle Jordan.

:roll:



You guys don't know anything about players in previous eras - you shouldn't talk shit about things you know nothing about



..............................................Oliv er Miller........ Andrew Bogut

Career Blocks per 100....................3.4........................ 2.8
Career Block Percentage................4.7%.................... .4.3%



Obviously, the frontcourt competition that Miller faced was far superior - he would view today's frontcourts as like, JV or something

Also, the Suns defense was ranked the same as Dallas' defense in 2011 - we saw how Lebron did against Dallas and Terry/Barea/old Marion.

[andgar923]

You guys don't know anything about players in previous eras - you shouldn't talk shit about things you know nothing about



..............................................Oliv er Miller........ Andrew Bogut

Career Blocks per 100....................3.4........................ 2.8
Career Block Percentage................4.7%.................... .4.3%



Obviously, the frontcourt competition that Miller faced was far superior - he would view today's frontcourts as like, JV or something

Also, the Suns defense was ranked the same as Dallas' defense in 2011 - we saw how Lebron did against Dallas and Terry/Barea/old Marion.

Majerle was an All Defensive Team member... and a high caliber defender even late in his career (early 2k era).

[3ball]

that "packed paint" was mostly just dudes standing around, boxing out each other and paying no mind to the slashing player


Lebron's teammates wouldn't be spacing the floor for him via 3-pointers in the 80's or 90's - the floor setup in those no-spacing environments was COMPLETELY different, so today's skillsets wouldn't be as effective back then.

Specifically, players in previous eras were forced to use their midrange jumpshot rather than get to the rim because the lack of 3-point shooting allowed defenders to overcrowd the paint.. Here's a reminder of the standard setup in this gif (https://media.giphy.com/media/WM0txsXFKjLP2/giphy.gif) - penetration isn't possible, so Jordan must pull-up from midrange..

This is the primary reason Lebron would be worse back then - his lack of midrange shooting ability - virtually ALL great perimeter scorers in the 80's and 90's had great midrange (just look at the top 10 scorers from 1986 or any year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_top_10.html) in the 80's or 90's - everyone had great midrange).. But in today's game, it's statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) that most of the top perimeter scorers don't have good midrange jumpshots, because the spacing and hands-off defense allows them easier access to the rim.

[3ball]

Bron stans mad that MJ was simply too skilled, had a higher IQ, and was a superior athlete.

That's basically what it comes down to.

MJ repeatedly beat doubles/traps/triple teams with his IQ court awareness.
He moved without the ball to get open looks.
Attacked before the defense settled.
Used a variety of jab steps, pump fakes, cross overs and other moves to get better looks.
He beat the defense before they settled with his elite quickness and speed.

Meanwhile Bron takes forever making decisions. He has no footwork, mediocre first step, no balance, can't move without the ball, bad court awareness and decision making, his only move is the Jerome Bettis bulldoze full steam ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpC9Yqf5vJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8fV9DFkJ_A

There is NO comparison.

Bron is 4 feet from the rim and he passes the ball!!!

He misses layups terribly.

Bron needs to take multiple dribbles and time to back up Curry:facepalm
Can't blow by big men:facepalm
Instead of pump faking to get a better mid range shot, he settles for 3s with 10 seconds on the clock:facepalm

FACT is, Bron simply dribbles too much, is slow making decisions, lacks explosiveness, footwork, skills

Seriously a 6'8 260 pound "Athletic" monster that can't take advantage of Curry?



Lebron looked horrible against Curry - people have no concept of how QUICKLY Jordan would've destroyed Curry in all of those spots that Curry was guarding Lebron:


https://media.giphy.com/media/m1Wek95lX21C8/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/dXGcYtCXJ3zJS/giphy.gif



Part of the reason Lebron looks so bad against Curry is because he's reluctant to use a turnaround jumpshot to simply shoot OVER Curry, since his jumpshot is broke - those shots above by Jordan would be BAD SHOTS for Lebron - he'd brick those most of the time - that kind of skill isn't in his repertoire, so he must bang away and look shitty trying to bully Curry.. Like you said - no comparison.

[Hey Yo]

You guys don't know anything about players in previous eras - you shouldn't talk shit about things you know nothing about



..............................................Oliv er Miller........ Andrew Bogut

Career Blocks per 100....................3.4........................ 2.8
Career Block Percentage................4.7%.................... .4.3%



Obviously, the frontcourt competition that Miller faced was far superior - he would view today's frontcourts as like, JV or something

Also, the Suns defense was ranked the same as Dallas' defense in 2011 - we saw how Lebron did against Dallas and Terry/Barea/old Marion.
LOL @ using per 100 and percentage. Maybe because Bogut 1.6 career avg and Miller at 1.5?


Miller was a career journeyman that was a starter for 1yr out of the 10 he was in the league.

What next......gifs of MJ getting layups on Greg Kite? Maybe Chris Dudley?

How about that one you always post with cement footed James Edwards??

:facepalm

[Just2McFly]

Majerle was an All Defensive Team member... and a high caliber defender even late in his career (early 2k era).
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/ShaneDawg021/raydisgusted.png

Stop this.

Thunder Dan was aight.... he ain't no Bruce Bowen/Shawn Marion/Kawhi/Iggy

[ClipperRevival]

Miller was a decent rim protector early in his career.

1.9 bpg in only 26.1 mpg in his first 4 seasons.

Per 36 minutes, that comes out to 2.7 bpg.

He wasn't Hakeem/DRob but he wasn't no Kevin Love either.

[andgar923]

Lebron looked horrible against Curry - people have no concept of how QUICKLY Jordan would've destroyed Curry in all of those spots that Curry was guarding Lebron:


https://media.giphy.com/media/m1Wek95lX21C8/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/dXGcYtCXJ3zJS/giphy.gif



Part of the reason Lebron looks so bad against Curry is because he's reluctant to use a turnaround jumpshot to simply shoot OVER Curry, since his jumpshot is broke - those shots above by Jordan would be BAD SHOTS for Lebron - he'd brick those most of the time - that kind of skill isn't in his repertoire, so he must bang away and look shitty trying to bully Curry.. Like you said - no comparison.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2016/Isk-1a.gif (http://makeagif.com/Isk-1a)

https://media.giphy.com/media/PmWkoHdU9Yj5e/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/MGDWmE3MfQpPO/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/nwa5aNJuVbI0o/giphy.gif


Bron simply isn't as skilled, as fast, lacks the IQ/court awareness, footwork, to beat the defense like MJ.

I can post many many more examples of such cases.

MJ simply made defense look weak, but it was his skill, athleticism and IQ that made it look so.

[andgar923]

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/ShaneDawg021/raydisgusted.png

Stop this.

Thunder Dan was aight.... he ain't no Bruce Bowen/Shawn Marion/Kawhi/Iggy

He wasn't on their level per se, but he was still an All NBA Defensive player. I'd say he was closer to a mix between Bowen and Battier than Marion, Leonard and Iggy.

He was strong, had decent quickness, but was tough and smart. Bowen and Battier weren't athletic at all, but they were smart and tough and neither of them as strong as Majerle. Hell, they were probably just as quick on their feet as Majerle. The thing that Majerle, Bowen and Battier have in common is they understand angles and proper positioning.

Funny you bring up Marion since both he and Majerle were the defensive stoppers in the Suns. And this is way past Majerle's prime, that's how smart and tough he was.

The coaches wouldn't have selected Majerle as an All NBA Defense twice if he couldn't play defense.

MJ was simply TOO fast for him. But MJ was too fast for every 2 guard he ever faced which is why they tried to play shorter players on him.. thus having KJ guard him to keep him from penetrating. And even then, he was too fast for him at times.

MJ simply too fast, too good, too smart for any defender.

Bron would've struggled vs Majerle no doubt.

[andgar923]

Miller was a decent rim protector early in his career.

1.9 bpg in only 26.1 mpg in his first 4 seasons.

Per 36 minutes, that comes out to 2.7 bpg.

He wasn't Hakeem/DRob but he wasn't no Kevin Love either.

People think that blocking shots = great rim protector

But that's only half of it.

Being a rim protector also means clogging up the lane, switching and rotating, altering shots, being physical.

Oliver took up space and was long enough to alter many shots. We've seen Bron struggle going up against players 6'8 as it stands. The nerve of Bron stans to mock a legit 7 ft 300 pounder is a joke:oldlol: :oldlol:

https://media.giphy.com/media/WI2pw3C1xtHyg/giphy.gif

^^ why didn't he go to his left? Why did he go to the right where the defense was?

Dat high IQ :facepalm

[Piccolo]

You guys don't know anything about players in previous eras - you shouldn't talk shit about things you know nothing about



..............................................Oliv er Miller........ Andrew Bogut

Career Blocks per 100....................3.4........................ 2.8
Career Block Percentage................4.7%.................... .4.3%



Obviously, the frontcourt competition that Miller faced was far superior - he would view today's frontcourts as like, JV or something

Also, the Suns defense was ranked the same as Dallas' defense in 2011 - we saw how Lebron did against Dallas and Terry/Barea/old Marion.

You don't even watch basketball. What are you talking about? Reading stats doesn't equal watching games. Highlight videos don't count either. Take your own advice. Oliver Miller?????????????? :roll: No comment.