NBA Talk: Why the Cavaliers beat the Warriors

[robby712]

I know the Finals have ended a week ago, but I wanted to watch some film and analyze all in detail before I made this thread. Just so you know, I will talk only briefly about Lebron, as his incredible performance has been discussed so much already.

1. DEFENSE
Going into the Finals I really thought that this year the Cavs have the offensive power to go head to head with the Warriors. I was wrong. When they have it going, the GSW are the most unstoppable team in the league. Their combination of passing and shooting is too much, even for a good offensive team in Cleveland. So how did the Cavs turn the tides? By playing excellent defense in the last 3 games. They finally realized they don't have to switch everything, just the pick and roles involving Steph and Klay. They were switching everything in the first 4 games and were left with mismatches all over the court.

They more or less shut down Steph and Klay, who never really got crazy hot like they did in other games in the playoffs. Shout out to Kyrie, JR and TT who mostly guarded those 2 and made an excellent job at it. Curry and Thompson shot worse from 3 then Kyrie and Lebron ( Sure, they took more 3's and the defense guarded them differently, but still, Lebron James shot a higher 3P% than Klay Thompson).

But the main reason why the Cavs defense was so effective was the fact that it made the GSW play different than they did all season. Their 3's came from the fact that they were able to get inside and take good shots at the rim. They were playing inside-out. But not in the Finals. They shot less 2's than any other playoff series, they shot bellow 50% on 2's , and because they did not attack the basket they got to the free throw line only 20 times, 4 less than vs OKC and 8 times less than in the regular season. The most affected by this, Steph Curry. In the regular season, 50% of his shots were 2's. In the Finals, 35%. In the RS, Curry shot 56% on 2's. In the Finals, 40%.And not only that, but you can see that he was reluctant to go in the paint. I guess it didn't help the Warriors and Curry that Lebron decided to turn into Dikembe Mutombo for 3 games:oldlol:

2. KYRIE IRVING.
Sure, everyone played their part. JR hit important shots, Love came up big in game 7, TT was a beast almost all series, but man, Kyrie Irving put on a clinic. Doing a great job on Steph, both defensively and offensively, and hitting big bucket after big bucket. He carried the Cavs offensively for important stretches when it seemed they couldn't hit anything, and only the fact that he played along a legend of the game that put one of the greatest performance of all time stopped him for winning FMVP. I am 100% sure the Cavs get swept without Lebron, but I'm starting to think they get swept without Kyrie also. That's how important both of them were for their success.

3. TY LUE.
A bit undecided at the beginning. But a 7 game series is a game of adjustments. Him and his staff made great adjustments. They played Steph and Klay great, they had a plan attacking Curry and stayed with it, they let Barnes free when he basically became a White Walker, but mostly I was impressed by his ability to feel the game. There were instances , especially in games 5 and 7, when Curry or Klay started to feel it a little, the crowd went nuts, immediate timeout. Not a second to late. Reminded me of Pop with his stubbornness to not let the other team get the better of his. Huge props to him.

4. THE GROUP.
Have you watched the benches in game 7? It didn't matter that they were attacking or defending, on every possession in the second half the Cavs players were standing, they were cheering for their guys. On the other end, the GSW appeared deflated. And it reflected onto the court. It seemed that the Cavs wanted it more, their desire was bigger, from the last guy on the bench to their star, they wanted it more. And they got it.

[gigantes]

sounds about right. a couple quibbles:

#2 i think lebron proved last year that he can lead the team fairly well without kyrie. maybe not win it all with the cavs, but.

do people remember that last year the cavs came within a whisker of sweeping the first three games -without- kyrie and love?

#4 i think it's natural that the benches would appear that way in game #7. the dubs were in pretty unfamiliar territory and feeling the pressure. the cavs had to be stoked about battling back and on the verge of pulling off a miracle. let's not fall in to skip bayless thinking, now.

[moongaze]

Gotta disagree that the cavs don't have the offense to match golden state. The cavs won the fastest paced games of the series and were ore efficient

[Bankaii]

Gotta disagree that the cavs don't have the offense to match golden state. The cavs won the fastest paced games of the series and were ore efficient
Cavs definitely have the offense to match. The only difference is it's more reliant reliant on Lebron/Kyrie so if one of them has a bad game the entire offense looks bad.

Otoh GSW has a more balanced offense so even if Steph/Klay/Dray have a bad game the system allows the offense to proceed without barely skipping a beat.

[Ai2death]

"When Curry or Klay started to feel it a little, the crowd went nuts, immediate timeout. Not a second to late. Reminded me of Pop with his stubbornness to not let the other team get the better of his."

My only disagreement, Pop loves making his team dig out of their woes. Happens time & time again.

[riseagainst]

Simple, 1 reason:

The Cavs have Lebron James.

[JebronLames]

Simple, 1 reason:

The Cavs have Lebron James.
This

[Ben Simmons]

Gotta disagree that the cavs don't have the offense to match golden state. The cavs won the fastest paced games of the series and were ore efficient
Honestly if the Cavs bench wasnt so terrible, golden state would of been run out the gym

[gigantes]

Simple, 1 reason:

The Cavs have Lebron James.
the cavs had lebron james for what... nine different seasons in total?

obviously something was different this time.

[robby712]

Gotta disagree that the cavs don't have the offense to match golden state. The cavs won the fastest paced games of the series and were ore efficient

Yes, but they won it with their defence. I do believe the Cavs have a great offense, but outside of Lebron,Kyrie , JR and to a point , Love, they don't have guys that can heat up and go wild. And because they play a more iso oriented game, it's difficult for other players to get quality looks like Barbosa, Iggy, Barnes , Livingston do from time to time. The GSW could win game 1 without any starter giving them major points. I don't have the time right now to search for the total bench points difference, but I'm guessing it's huge.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Honestly if the Cavs bench wasnt so terrible, golden state would of been run out the gym

This. Cavs bench sans RJ was f.ucking terrible in the Finals. Get some rung chasers to fill in the holes this offseason and they 2peat.

[JohnMax]

Dwight Howard would fix all of the Warriors problems.

[Hey Yo]

sounds about right. a couple quibbles:

#2 i think lebron proved last year that he can lead the team fairly well without kyrie. maybe not win it all with the cavs, but.

do people remember that last year the cavs came within a whisker of sweeping the first three games -without- kyrie and love?

#4 i think it's natural that the benches would appear that way in game #7. the dubs were in pretty unfamiliar territory and feeling the pressure. the cavs had to be stoked about battling back and on the verge of pulling off a miracle. let's not fall in to skip bayless thinking, now.
Kyrie played the first game (43+mins)...but the knee injury kept him out the remainder of the series.

[robby712]

"When Curry or Klay started to feel it a little, the crowd went nuts, immediate timeout. Not a second to late. Reminded me of Pop with his stubbornness to not let the other team get the better of his."

My only disagreement, Pop loves making his team dig out of their woes. Happens time & time again.

Yes he does, but also he is one of the best at stopping opponents momentum and getting his guys back into the game mentally. It's quite a down moment when you are away from home, and Steph just hits 2 consecutive 3's and the crowd goes wild. It happened in game 7 after Curry stole the ball, scored on Love and then hit a 3. Lue immediately took a timeout although the Cavs were only down by 5. It's all about momentum and I think Lue made the right decisions at least in the last games. Honestly, it reminded me of Pop because of game 2 in the 2014 Finals. The Spurs were ok, they were playing well, but after 3 straight buckets by Lebron, Pop took a timeout just to stop James's flow.

[robby712]

sounds about right. a couple quibbles:

#2 i think lebron proved last year that he can lead the team fairly well without kyrie. maybe not win it all with the cavs, but.

do people remember that last year the cavs came within a whisker of sweeping the first three games -without- kyrie and love?

#4 i think it's natural that the benches would appear that way in game #7. the dubs were in pretty unfamiliar territory and feeling the pressure. the cavs had to be stoked about battling back and on the verge of pulling off a miracle. let's not fall in to skip bayless thinking, now.

You just can't assume that. Do you believe that the GSW would lose game 2 if they lost game 1? I don't. I think that knowing Kyrie is out , they did not come as focused and did not expect such a hard response from the Cavs in game 2.

[warriorfan]

Why the Cavaliers beat the Warriors

1. Curry's MCL injury

2. Adam Silver suspending Draymond Green

3. Andre Iguodala's back

4. Andrew Bogut getting injured

[JebronLames]

the cavs had lebron james for what... nine different seasons in total?

obviously something was different this time.
Meltdown :roll:

[NumberSix]

Because the Warriors, and especially Steph Carried choked. It's that simple. Steph Carried was flat out garbage and nobody else on the warriors stepped up to fill that gap.

[gigantes]

You just can't assume that. Do you believe that the GSW would lose game 2 if they lost game 1? I don't. I think that knowing Kyrie is out , they did not come as focused and did not expect such a hard response from the Cavs in game 2.
i'm not assuming it, and i understand how the butterfly effect works.

what i'm talking about is just the pure accomplishment of all that, mainly by lebron dragging what was left of the cavs along with him.

[gigantes]

Meltdown :roll:
are you drunk?

did you read the post i was replying to?

[warriorfan]

#1 reason

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/maxresdefault.jpg

[ILLsmak]

Because the Warriors, and especially Steph Carried choked. It's that simple. Steph Carried was flat out garbage and nobody else on the warriors stepped up to fill that gap.

yea he looked like 2011 Bron or Bron vs Celtics. Times where you feel that a player isn't as much choking but willfully not playing. And it's like... why?

Maybe he was injured... maybe the pressure got to him. Maybe it was about finals MVP, not sure. But he looked like he was trying to lose out there tbh. Some of his plays were just like wow...

-Smak

[Da_Realist]

Good analysis. Especially this part:


But the main reason why the Cavs defense was so effective was the fact that it made the GSW play different than they did all season. Their 3's came from the fact that they were able to get inside and take good shots at the rim. They were playing inside-out. But not in the Finals. They shot less 2's than any other playoff series, they shot bellow 50% on 2's , and because they did not attack the basket they got to the free throw line only 20 times, 4 less than vs OKC and 8 times less than in the regular season. The most affected by this, Steph Curry. In the regular season, 50% of his shots were 2's. In the Finals, 35%. In the RS, Curry shot 56% on 2's. In the Finals, 40%.And not only that, but you can see that he was reluctant to go in the paint. I guess it didn't help the Warriors and Curry that Lebron decided to turn into Dikembe Mutombo for 3 games:oldlol:

This is one of the reasons I never thought GSW was one of the greatest teams of all time, despite the regular season wins record. If Lebron can intimidate Curry out of the paint, what would Olajuwon or Ewing do? GSW never faced a team that forced them to adjust or alter their style until the WCF. I said it during the regular season, there is no way GSW would win 73 games in the 90's. There was many more diverse styles of play and some of those "lesser" teams would present huge matchup problems for GSW. There were too many copycat teams that played uninspired basketball during this past regular season.

[tpols]

^^

Curry didnt look the same finishing all playoffs long .. so I wouldnt be super surprised if next year he shoots way better in the paint and in between game in general. his "last step" looked so much slower than it did all season long.. even if he beat somebody it was like slow motion to the rim after.

seriously.. if you look at how curry killed portland and okc, it wasnt layups.. he was just chucking 30 footers and strings of them would go in and knock em out, but against Cleveland he could never find his rhythm or catch fire.. part of that is due to Cleveland's defense, but the Thunder played him even better and he was still draining the most ridiculous shots by the end of the series.

point is though i cant see curry shooting sub 40% inside the arc when he regains his full mobility back .. hell he was better last year against a more disruptive defensive frontline of mozgov, thompson, and Lebron.. this year he couldnt finish over kevin love.. so i dont expect that to continue

thats the part of his game hes gotta take care of the most though .. i still dont know what curry can do about the off ball beatings that seemingly only he is allowed to take .. this is why Golden State needs guys like Bogut.. he softens that blow for curry by gooning steph's defenders in the time he's on the court.. he's able to soften them up like a momma bird chewing meal before she feeds it to her youngins.. and then curry can devour. i really hope they dont lose bogut, because that will really hurt them. They need to save that guy for just playoffs, no regular season spurs style.

[tanks1]

Defense,Defense,Defense:

Being able to switch on the pick and roll.............

Tristan Thompson - after the switch on pick and roll, being able to guard Curry or Klay one on one. (This was huge)

Physical..........they were able to grab/hold/elbow the screener.....

[Im Still Ballin]

The game changed when LeBron decided to take it over