Playoff Win Shares Leaders (since 2000) & a point about Gasol 2010

[ArbitraryWater]

Only since 2000 since my point is not to show all leaders historically (for your info, Duncan, Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem, Barkley, were the previous leaders), but just make a point on how generally, the best, or minimum, a top 3 player leads....


2016 NBA LeBron James 4.69 CLE
2015 NBA Stephen Curry 3.93 GSW
2014 NBA LeBron James 4.30 MIA
2013 NBA LeBron James 5.20 MIA
2012 NBA LeBron James 5.82 MIA
2011 NBA LeBron James 3.81 MIA
2010 NBA Pau Gasol 4.25 LAL
2009 NBA LeBron James 4.83 CLE
2008 NBA Kevin Garnett 4.10 BOS
2007 NBA LeBron James 3.73 CLE
2006 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 5.39 DAL
2005 NBA Chauncey Billups 4.59 DET
2004 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 3.86 LAL
2003 NBA Tim Duncan 5.94 SAS
2002 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 3.81 LAL
2001 NBA Kobe Bryant 3.76 LAL
2000 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 4.67 LAL




So what do we do with 2010 Gasol? How does he fit in there?

As you know I always said he was close to Kobe that year. Even led LAL in PER in the regular season... most advanced metrics back it up.

so where does he rank for you in 2010? If he doesnt make your top 5 or nigh top 5, or you think he wasnt close to Kobe in impact, why not?

He led the Lakers in RS PER, Playoffs WS, and also in the playoffs in Ortg/Drtg, and only trailed Kobe by .7 in PER.. oh, and also in FG% and even TS%.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

In all seriousness Gasol was a great second option and a great player overall during the Lakers 3-year run but Kobe was quite clearly better.

2010 Kobe had started to decline, though. He peaked 2006-08.

[Asiantastic]

Any real Laker fan appreciates what he did for the franchise, especially that year. Only idiots will say otherwise.

Did he deserve to win Finals MVP? Perhaps. But the general consensus, outside of ISH at least, is that Kobe deserved to win and it's true. Stats don't show the whole picture.


2016 NBA LeBron James 4.69 CLE
2015 NBA Stephen Curry 3.93 GSW
2014 NBA LeBron James 4.30 MIA
2013 NBA LeBron James 5.20 MIA
2012 NBA LeBron James 5.82 MIA
2011 NBA LeBron James 3.81 MIA
2010 NBA Pau Gasol 4.25 LAL
2009 NBA LeBron James 4.83 CLE
2008 NBA Kevin Garnett 4.10 BOS
2007 NBA LeBron James 3.73 CLE
2006 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 5.39 DAL
2005 NBA Chauncey Billups 4.59 DET
2004 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 3.86 LAL
2003 NBA Tim Duncan 5.94 SAS
2002 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 3.81 LAL
2001 NBA Kobe Bryant 3.76 LAL
2000 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 4.67 LAL

All bolded players did not win Finals MVP and/or win the championship that year, despite leading their respective teams in win shares.

[ArbitraryWater]

Any real Laker fan appreciates what he did for the franchise, especially that year. Only idiots will say otherwise.

Did he deserve to win Finals MVP? Perhaps. But the general consensus, outside of ISH at least, is that Kobe deserved to win and it's true. Stats don't show the whole picture.



All bolded players did not win Finals MVP and/or win the championship that year, despite leading their respective teams in win shares.

I guess thats why the best team wins the title, no? :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Only since 2000 since my point is not to show all leaders historically (for your info, Duncan, Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem, Barkley, were the previous leaders), but just make a point on how generally, the best, or minimum, a top 3 player leads....


2016 NBA LeBron James 4.69 CLE
2015 NBA Stephen Curry 3.93 GSW
2014 NBA LeBron James 4.30 MIA
2013 NBA LeBron James 5.20 MIA
2012 NBA LeBron James 5.82 MIA
2011 NBA LeBron James 3.81 MIA
2010 NBA Pau Gasol 4.25 LAL
2009 NBA LeBron James 4.83 CLE
2008 NBA Kevin Garnett 4.10 BOS
2007 NBA LeBron James 3.73 CLE
2006 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 5.39 DAL
2005 NBA Chauncey Billups 4.59 DET
2004 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 3.86 LAL
2003 NBA Tim Duncan 5.94 SAS
2002 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 3.81 LAL
2001 NBA Kobe Bryant 3.76 LAL
2000 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 4.67 LAL




So what do we do with 2010 Gasol? How does he fit in there?

As you know I always said he was close to Kobe that year. Even led LAL in PER in the regular season... most advanced metrics back it up.

so where does he rank for you in 2010? If he doesnt make your top 5 or nigh top 5, or you think he wasnt close to Kobe in impact, why not?

He led the Lakers in RS PER, Playoffs WS, and also in the playoffs in Ortg/Drtg, and only trailed Kobe by .7 in PER.. oh, and also in FG% and even TS%.

Excellent research. I've always tried to argue that 2010 Gasol was Kobe equal. Judging from these, you could actually make the case that he was slightly ahead that season if anything.

[NBAGOAT]

Kobe's volume scoring is most likely still enough for 10 even if he was declining a little that year. Advanced metrics aren't as great over a smaller sample size like the playoffs. Postseason, Gasol was definitely a top 5 player. Regular season he was around top 10 but I say Kobe was only around top 5 for just RS so it's fairly close.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe's volume scoring is most likely still enough for 10 even if he was declining a little that year. Advanced metrics aren't as great over a smaller sample size like the playoffs. Postseason, Gasol was definitely a top 5 player. Regular season he was around top 10 but I say Kobe was only around top 5 for just RS so it's fairly close.

Tbf Gasol did lead the Lakers in per for that 82 game season.
In the biggest games (game 7 against Boston especially, he played significantly better and carried the lakers). It's close either way but no wonder many people think Gasol was snubbed in 2010 and deserved the fmvp.

[SouBeachTalents]

Excellent research. I've always tried to argue that 2010 Gasol was Kobe equal. Judging from these, you could actually make the case that he was slightly ahead that season if anything.

So was Kobe Shaq's equal in '01?

[ArbitraryWater]

So was Kobe Shaq's equal in '01?

Tbh that argument ends after the first advanced stat though... Gasol even led them in PER in the regular season, and was only off 0.7 in the playoffs, and led them in other metrics.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

So was Kobe Shaq's equal in '01?

No, but Kobe was pretty freaking amazing in 2001.

[IMObjective]

In all seriousness Gasol was a great second option and a great player overall during the Lakers 3-year run but Kobe was quite clearly better.

2010 Kobe had started to decline, though. He peaked 2006-08.
I like your posts when you're not trolling.

No doubt, Pau was beasting those 3 years. What the fvck happened to him in 2011? He was never the same again after 2010.

[Mr Feeny]

So was Kobe Shaq's equal in '01?

Err...why exactly would he be?
Like a.w. said, Shaq was miles ahead in almost all advanced stats. He was just the better player. Leave an isolated metric such as win shares aside.
Gasol also lead the Lakers in per as a.w. mentioned.

[34-24 Footwork]

Kobe's volume scoring is most likely still enough for 10 even if he was declining a little that year. Advanced metrics aren't as great over a smaller sample size like the playoffs. Postseason, Gasol was definitely a top 5 player. Regular season he was around top 10 but I say Kobe was only around top 5 for just RS so it's fairly close.

Gasol was a top 5 player in the 2010 post season folks.

You heard it here, first.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol @ that 2001 finals PER. Got em scrambling for answers without contradicting themselves.

[Mr Feeny]

Gasol was a top 5 player in the 2010 post season folks.

You heard it here, first.Not the first people have heard of this. In fact lots of basketball fans think the same thing and believe he was better in the 2010 playoffs than kobe:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

I like your posts when you're not trolling.

No doubt, Pau was beasting those 3 years. What the fvck happened to him in 2011? He was never the same again after 2010.

I guess the same could be said about Kobe, really

[ArbitraryWater]

Gasol was a top 5 player in the 2010 post season folks.

You heard it here, first.

Look at the leaders of Win Shares, and tell me all the names from that list, which werent top 5....


let me guess, the only one is Gasol? :lol (and maybe Billups)



yeah, very convenient on your part.. we will take your opinion very seriously :lol

[34-24 Footwork]

Look at the leaders of Win Shares, and tell me all the names from that list, which werent top 5....


let me guess, the only one is Gasol? :lol (and maybe Billups)



yeah, very convenient on your part.. we will take your opinion very seriously :lol

Watch the game bro. Gasol was not a top 5 player in 2010 playoffs. He was phenomenal for the Lakers. But a top 5 player.....???

How is this not trolling. If it's not, it's definitely revisionist history.

[ArbitraryWater]

Watch the game bro. Gasol was not a top 5 player in 2010 playoffs. He was phenomenal for the Lakers. But a top 5 player.....???

How is this not trolling. If it's not, it's definitely revisionist history.

were talking about the playoffs... so guys that you might take for him over the season stretch like Melo, fall out...

he was H2H w/ Kobe ffs, how much more top 5 does it get :confusedshrug:

1) Wade
2) Dirk
3) Bron

?

[riseagainst]

Duncan in 03.

:bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

Watch the game bro. Kobe was not a top 5 player in 2010 playoffs. He was phenomenal for the Lakers. But a top 5 player.....???

How is this not trolling. If it's not, it's definitely revisionist history.

Fixed that for you.
Gasol probably was top 5 or 6. If nothing else, he was the best laker during the 2010 playoffs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Look at the 5+ guys... '03 Duncan, '12 LeBron...

but the most impressive, '09 LeBron... only leader while not playing all arounds.

Dude had more WS's than Kobe and Kobe had a whole round more to play in...

dude nearly clipped the 5er mark while playing a total 14 games





















out of this world.

[SouBeachTalents]

Look at the 5+ guys... '03 Duncan, '12 LeBron...

but the most impressive, '09 LeBron... only leader while not playing all arounds.

Dude had more WS's than Kobe and Kobe had a whole round more to play in...

dude nearly clipped the 5er mark while playing a total 14 games

I'm very surprised '00 Shaq didn't make the 5 WS list

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm very surprised '00 Shaq didn't make the 5 WS list

not sure what it is, maybe the low FT percentage, but something on Shaqs end is doing him any favors with WS.

[34-24 Footwork]

were talking about the playoffs... so guys that you might take for him over the season stretch like Melo, fall out...

he was H2H w/ Kobe ffs, how much more top 5 does it get :confusedshrug:

1) Wade
2) Dirk
3) Bron

?

I gotta give it to you. You're one of the bran stans that's not a troll.

However, you do you have a screw loose.

Check out the Lakers vs Suns 2010 series and get back to me.

[ArbitraryWater]

I gotta give it to you. You're one of the bran stans that's not a troll.

However, you do you have a screw loose.

Check out the Lakers vs Suns 2010 series and get back to me.

check out the finals, Kobe's vintage 41% shooting, get back to me

[34-24 Footwork]

Thread literally has nothing to do with Kobe. He's done and has been done for some time now.


This thread is about Gasol being a top 5 player in the 2010 playoffs. Waiting for someone to explain that

[ArbitraryWater]

Thread literally has nothing to do with Kobe. He's done and has been done for some time now.


This thread is about Gasol being a top 5 player in the 2010 playoffs. Waiting for someone to explain that

There have been various marks in which Gasol carried the title winning team in the playoffs in, which have already been stated, but you want to ignore...

I'll name more and compare them with Bryant, who was a top 5 player since '01 and can easily be taken as barometer here.

Gasol in the playoffs: 20 ppg on 13 fga (thx Kobe), 11 rpg, 4 apg, 3 bpg... on 60% TS.. first off, thats HUGE.

He led the Lakers in Win Shares (both sides), second trailing by 0.7 in PER, led them in Ortg, Drtg, FG%, TS%, RPG, BPG

Round by Round:

18 PPG/12 RPG/4 APG
24 PPG (61% FG)/15 RPG/3 APG/3 BPG
20 PPG (57% FG)/7 RPG/ 4 APG/2 BPG
19 PPG/12 RPG/4 APG/3 BPG

Kobe becomes the lowest shooting FMVP ever. The only star ever to go two consecutive finals series with not a single game shooting 50% or better.

And I did a game by game comparison of the two, in which Gasol easily bested Bryant for the post-season:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11521012

You are WELCOME.

[34-24 Footwork]

There have been various marks in which Gasol carried the title winning team in the playoffs in, which have already been stated, but you want to ignore...

I'll name more and compare them with Bryant, who was a top 5 player since '01 and can easily be taken as barometer here.

Gasol in the playoffs: 20 ppg on 13 fga (thx Kobe), 11 rpg, 4 apg, 3 bpg... on 60% TS.. first off, thats HUGE.

He led the Lakers in Win Shares (both sides), second trailing by 0.7 in PER, led them in Ortg, Drtg, FG%, TS%, RPG, BPG

Round by Round:

18 PPG/12 RPG/4 APG
24 PPG (61% FG)/15 RPG/3 APG/3 BPG
20 PPG (57% FG)/7 RPG/ 4 APG/2 BPG
19 PPG/12 RPG/4 APG/3 BPG

Kobe becomes the lowest shooting FMVP ever. The only star ever to go two consecutive finals series with not a single game shooting 50% or better.

And I did a game by game comparison of the two, in which Gasol easily bested Bryant for the post-season:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11521012

You are WELCOME.

Those are great numbers. He was great for us in 2009/2010.

By the way, Not sure why you added the FG% for a guy that's 7'1. Lol. Literally does nothing for your argument.

Nice try. Thanks for reminding us that Gasol truly played some of his best basketball when he was alongside Kobe.

[pastis]

Dirk, Duncan, James with over 5 WS

so sad that dirk didnt win in 06....combining his 06 RS and playoffs, it would have been one of the best overall runs in the history of the game.

[ArbitraryWater]

Those are great numbers. He was great for us in 2009/2010.

By the way, Not sure why you added the FG% for a guy that's 7'1. Lol. Literally does nothing for your argument.

Nice try. Thanks for reminding us that Gasol truly played some of his best basketball when he was alongside Kobe.


FG% isnt a factor for 7 footers anymore? :oldlol: So its basically one less category they can shine in?

Wait, I thought that size should come in as an advantage somewhere!! :lol