2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title

[SilkkTheShocker]

Easy to see Cleveland would had won that series with Irving playing. And anything from Love would had been gravy. Warriors were way better this season, and they still lost. Not hard to see Cleveland should be celebrating back-to-back titles if they weren't relying on a backup PG to produce like a #2. The Warriors 15 title is biggest asterisk title of all-time. Just an all-out epic joke. What makes it even sadder is the league MVP getting outplayed by role players in the last two Finals. :oldlol: PATHETIC.

[Im Still Ballin]

True!

[Spurs m8]

http://i.giphy.com/888hCuypyqoF2.gif

[DirkNowitzki41]

true

healthy cavs = cavs win
injured cavs = cavs lose

no surprise.

[Real14]

Draymond's game 5 suspension completely discredits Cavs' *16 Title.

[Boogaboog]

Draymond's game 5 suspension completely discredits Cavs' *16 Title.

Nope.

41 points and an L w/ Draymond on the court

41 points and an L w/ Draymond not on the court

[ArbitraryWater]

true

healthy cavs = cavs win
injured cavs = cavs lose

no surprise.

and dude, posters like plowking here think GSW would have still won last year lol

[Real14]

Nope.

41 points and an L w/ Draymond on the court

41 points and an L w/ Draymond not on the court
Nope.
Bogut was injured and Iggy was hurt.

[Xoush]

The Cavaliers were down 3-1. A healthy Curry would have closed the series.

[aj1987]

Nope.
Bogut was injured and Iggy was hurt.
As were Love and Irving, Cecil.

[Jasper]

Easy to see Cleveland would had won that series with Irving playing. And anything from Love would had been gravy. Warriors were way better this season, and they still lost. Not hard to see Cleveland should be celebrating back-to-back titles if they weren't relying on a backup PG to produce like a #2. The Warriors 15 title is biggest asterisk title of all-time. Just an all-out epic joke. What makes it even sadder is the league MVP getting outplayed by role players in the last two Finals. :oldlol: PATHETIC.
This is what happens with 1 year era championships.

[Jasper]

The Cavaliers were down 3-1. A healthy Curry would have closed the series.
pathetic excuse for a MVP player that played in finals and got owned

[moongaze]

Nope.
Bogut was injured and Iggy was hurt.

Bogut was a net negative throughout the series. Warriors were actually better without him. Iggy did not miss any time because of his back and played heavy minutes in game 7. While a very important one, he's still a bench player and his injury wasn't significant enough to say it was the reason golden state lost.

Healthy cavs have always been a step above golden state.

[Da_Realist]

The Cavs won in the last minute of the 7th game. It really could have gone either way. Steph could have easily made one three that would have sealed it. No one knew Harrison Barnes would miss every single wide open shot he took for the last three games. The Cavs couldn't have planned for that. Who knows what would have happened if Dray played in Game 5. That would have been the easiest game for them to win. They felt no pressure -- They were not going to leave Cleveland with a win and they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in Game 7. Neither team owns the other.

[Gileraracer]

Bogut, Iggy (FMVP, locked lebron down to 39%) where injured. 2016 Cavs title has the biggest asterisk ever

[moongaze]

The Cavs won in the last minute of the 7th game. It really could have gone either way. Steph could have easily made one three that would have sealed it. No one knew Harrison Barnes would miss every single wide open shot he took for the last three games. The Cavs couldn't have planned for that. Who knows what would have happened if Dray played in Game 5. That would have been the easiest game for them to win. They felt no pressure -- They were not going to leave Cleveland with a win and they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in Game 7. Neither team owns the other.

Draymond greens presence was not stopping a team that had two players go for 41, especially when one was shooting 70 percent from the field. It was also. 15 point loss. Draymond didn't play but klay Thompsons game more than made up for it. Had dray played that would have been less shots for klay. Also dray played the next game and the cavs won by only one less point.

The cavs lost the first two games of the series because golden state had a mental edge on them. After losing to them while injured in the finals and during g the season when Kyrie was still working himself back into shape, the cavs were unsure of themselves when playing golden state and it showed the first two games where they looked nothing like the team that steamrolled it's way through the playoffs.

After first quarter gsme 3 the cavs regained that confidence and started playing more like themselves. The result was a lopsided rest of the series where the cavs led for all but 14 minutes in games 3,5,6 and won 4 of the last 5 games . The series wasn't really close after games 1 and 2

[moongaze]

Bogut, Iggy (FMVP, locked lebron down to 39%) where injured. 2016 Cavs title has the biggest asterisk ever

Bogut was a net negative=warriors were outscored when be played
Lebron shot 39 percent due to no love and Irving. Lebron abused Iggy and everyone this year

[Rocketswin2013]

yup

[Kiddlovesnets]

A win is a win, the Cavs deserve 2016 title, and the Warriors deserved 2015 title.

[Da_Realist]

Draymond greens presence was not stopping a team that had two players go for 41, especially when one was shooting 70 percent from the field. It was also. 15 point loss. Draymond didn't play but klay Thompsons game more than made up for it. Had dray played that would have been less shots for klay. Also dray played the next game and the cavs won by only one less point.

The cavs lost the first two games of the series because golden state had a mental edge on them. After losing to them while injured in the finals and during g the season when Kyrie was still working himself back into shape, the cavs were unsure of themselves when playing golden state and it showed the first two games where they looked nothing like the team that steamrolled it's way through the playoffs.

After first quarter gsme 3 the cavs regained that confidence and started playing more like themselves. The result was a lopsided rest of the series where the cavs led for all but 14 minutes in games 3,5,6 and won 4 of the last 5 games . The series wasn't really close after games 1 and 2

You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum. There are a lot of conditionals to think about in a series decided in the last minute of Game 7. It could have gone either way. Maybe Bogut makes one block that starts a fast break that gives GSW enough of a cushion to pull away. Maybe Iggy goes for the dunk and draws a foul and 2 free throws instead of going for the layup that Lebron blocked if his back was healthy. Neither one of these teams are clearly better than the other.

[Da_Realist]

Bogut was a net negative=warriors were outscored when be played
Lebron shot 39 percent due to no love and Irving. Lebron abused Iggy and everyone this year

What did the analytics say about the possibility that Kevin Love would stay with Curry and force a huge miss that would seal the win in Game 7? Exactly. You can not predict how someone will impact a game. Bogut was injured and that hurt GSW regardless of what the numbers say. They named him a starter, after all. Some things can't be measured by numbers and then there is always the chance that someone will do something out of the norm. In most cases, it wouldn't matter but when two teams don't separate until the last minute of Game 7, everything matters.

[riseagainst]

absolutely.

[warriorfan]

Last years Warriors title is discredited

As well as this years Cavaliers title is discredited

We will have to wait till next season to see the rematch

The last times we have seen both squads meet up while healthy, Curry and Golden State have dominated though

[nba_55]

You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum. There are a lot of conditionals to think about in a series decided in the last minute of Game 7. It could have gone either way. Maybe Bogut makes one block that starts a fast break that gives GSW enough of a cushion to pull away. Maybe Iggy goes for the dunk and draws a foul and 2 free throws instead of going for the layup that Lebron blocked if his back was healthy. Neither one of these teams are clearly better than the other.

You can't use the Green suspension as an excuse. That was a result of his own actions.
Iggy got injured, but Kyrie also got injured the same game. He was clearly limited in the 2nd half of game 6. Also, if he didn't get injured, he may even score more in game 7. So, these 2 cancels out.
Bogut was playing 12 minutes a game and he was a huge negative on the court when he was playing. Still, that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game and the effect of the concussion was clearly visible for 2-3 games. When it finally went out, he beasted in game 7.
So the injuries canceled out at the end.

[nba_55]

Last years Warriors title is discredited

As well as this years Cavaliers title is discredited

We will have to wait till next season to see the rematch

The last times we have seen both squads meet up while healthy, Curry and Golden State have dominated though

Last year is descredited, but not this year. Kyrie and Love's injuries this year cancel out the Iggy and Bogut injury. You can't say the same for last year.

[warriorfan]

You can't use the Green suspension as an excuse. That was a result of his own actions.
Iggy got injured, but Kyrie also got injured the same game. He was clearly limited in the 2nd half of game 6. Also, if he didn't get injured, he may even score more in game 7. So, these 2 cancels out.
Bogut was playing 12 minutes a game and he was a huge negative on the court when he was playing. Still, that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game and the effect of the concussion was clearly visible for 2-3 games. When it finally went out, he beasted.
So the injuries cancel out at the end.

Stop the excuses

Cavaliers were banged up last year

Golden State was banged up this year

Next season we will see the rematch we have all been waiting for

The last times Golden State has played Cavaliers while both teams have been fully healthy, Golden State has destroyed them

[nba_55]

Stop the excuses

Cavaliers were banged up last year

Golden State was banged up this year

Next season we will see the rematch we have all been waiting for

The last times Golden State has played Cavaliers while both teams have been fully healthy, Golden State has destroyed them

What excuses? Didn't Kyrie suffer an injury in game 6? Didn't Love get a concussion in game 2? These are facts.

[warriorfan]

What excuses? Didn't Kyrie suffer an injury in game 6? Didn't Love get a concussion in game 2? These are facts.

Cleveland had injuries last year

Golden State had injuries this year

Last time both teams faced each other while at 100%, Golden State beat them by 30+ points in Cleveland

[nba_55]

Cleveland had injuries last year

Golden State had injuries this year

Last time both teams faced each other while at 100%, Golden State beat them by 30+ points in Cleveland

Cleveland had injuries last year, Warriors didn't.
Warriors had injuries this year, Cleveland also had injuries this year. It canceled out this year.

[moongaze]

You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum. There are a lot of conditionals to think about in a series decided in the last minute of Game 7. It could have gone either way. Maybe Bogut makes one block that starts a fast break that gives GSW enough of a cushion to pull away. Maybe Iggy goes for the dunk and draws a foul and 2 free throws instead of going for the layup that Lebron blocked if his back was healthy. Neither one of these teams are clearly better than the other.

For one, draymond was not guarding Kyrie much at all during the rest of the games and when he did Kyrie scored at will on him. So I'm not sure how his presence would have stopped Kyrie's game. We do know that lebron could score the same amount whether dray plays or not because he did so in game 6. Sure bogut can make one block that starts svfsdt break, but by going off the stats, golden state would have most likely been down more with him playing. I'm not sure what Iggy's back has too do with the fact that he chose to double pump a layup that jr Smith contested well. His back sure looked fine when he converted a layup in the pain against multiple cavs defenders to end the third quarter. His back sure looked fine playing 30+ minutes.

[Da_Realist]

You can't use the Green suspension as an excuse. That was a result of his own actions.
Iggy got injured, but Kyrie also got injured the same game. He was clearly limited in the 2nd half of game 6. Also, if he didn't get injured, he may even score more in game 7. So, these 2 cancels out.
Bogut was playing 12 minutes a game and he was a huge negative on the court when he was playing. Still, that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game and the effect of the concussion was clearly visible for 2-3 games. When it finally went out, he beasted in game 7.
So the injuries canceled out at the end.

Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.

[nba_55]

Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.

You never know what could have happened with Bogut out there. Cavs may have played even better with him out there (the stats/facts actually support this theory more than yours), but still that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game because of it and he looked affected because of that the whole series except for game 7. Warriors suffered injuries, but Cavs also did. In 2015, that wasn't the case. Cavs missed 2 starting 5 players, Shumpert was injured also and Warriors had no one even injured.

[moongaze]

What did the analytics say about the possibility that Kevin Love would stay with Curry and force a huge miss that would seal the win in Game 7? Exactly. You can not predict how someone will impact a game. Bogut was injured and that hurt GSW regardless of what the numbers say. They named him a starter, after all. Some things can't be measured by numbers and then there is always the chance that someone will do something out of the norm. In most cases, it wouldn't matter but when two teams don't separate until the last minute of Game 7, everything matters.


Kevin love stayed with curry on ONE play. Does that mean he could have guarded curry for an entire quarter or game? No. I'm not sure how you can say that the bogut injury hurt golden state when stats for 5 games(plenty of time and evidence) shows that golden state was worse with him playing. Could he have made some nice plays , sure? Can Kevin love cause curry into a tough shot , sure? But can both players do so for an extended period of time? No. Statistics say otherwise and saying otherwise is without any basis.

Consider, also that the warriors made their comeback last year down 2-1 to the cavs AFTER benching bogut.

The warriors excuses are insignificant at best, especially compared to Clevelands in 2014-2015 finals

[moongaze]

Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.

What part of golden state being outscored when bogut played don't you get? You keep talking about how much of a factor this guy was while disregarding the statistics that actually show his worth in the series. At some point you have to stop hanging on to this weak excuse of bogut missing two and a half games. The guy actually helped the cavs more than he helped his own team.

[AintNoSunshine]

The Cavs won in the last minute of the 7th game. It really could have gone either way. Steph could have easily made one three that would have sealed it. No one knew Harrison Barnes would miss every single wide open shot he took for the last three games. The Cavs couldn't have planned for that. Who knows what would have happened if Dray played in Game 5. That would have been the easiest game for them to win. They felt no pressure -- They were not going to leave Cleveland with a win and they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in Game 7. Neither team owns the other.


But it's hard to make a well guarded 3 if you are choking

[Da_Realist]

Kevin love stayed with curry on ONE play. Does that mean he could have guarded curry for an entire quarter or game? No. I'm not sure how you can say that the bogut injury hurt golden state when stats for 5 games(plenty of time and evidence) shows that golden state was worse with him playing. Could he have made some nice plays , sure? Can Kevin love cause curry into a tough shot , sure? But can both players do so for an extended period of time? No. Statistics say otherwise and saying otherwise is without any basis.

Consider, also that the warriors made their comeback last year down 2-1 to the cavs AFTER benching bogut.

The warriors excuses are insignificant at best, especially compared to Clevelands in 2014-2015 finals

That's the point. ONE play. That's all it would have taken to flip the series. Bogut or Dray or someone else could have made that ONE play to change the series had the circumstances been different. Dray could have made ONE play in game 5 to start a comeback run for GSW. It happens all the time. Bogut could have made ONE block or been just enough of a deterrent defensively to push GSW to a win in game 7. Cleveland won at the last minute over a shorthanded team the last 3 games. They may have won anyway or they could have lost. They could have lost game 7 anyway. Kyrie hit a big shot but Curry and Dray missed shots just like that beforehand. If they had knocked down ONE shot to send the crowd into a frenzy, they could have ridden the rest of the game on adrenaline and won that way. Draymond missed a wide open shot that he made all year long. Cleveland had nothing to do with him missing a wide open shot.

[Da_Realist]

What part of golden state being outscored when bogut played don't you get? You keep talking about how much of a factor this guy was while disregarding the statistics that actually show his worth in the series. At some point you have to stop hanging on to this weak excuse of bogut missing two and a half games. The guy actually helped the cavs more than he helped his own team.

You aren't getting it because you don't want to get it. In the grand scheme of things, Bogut is nothing. Not a star. Nothing. But he does mean something to GSW beyond what is measured in the boxscore. He could have played enough so that the change of pace small ball could have been more effective. Maybe he snatches a couple of rebounds. We are only talking a minute difference that could have flipped the series. Cleveland wasn't unbeatable with or without Bogut.

[moongaze]

That's the point. ONE play. That's all it would have taken to flip the series. Bogut or Dray or someone else could have made that ONE play to change the series had the circumstances been different. Dray could have made ONE play in game 5 to start a comeback run for GSW. It happens all the time. Bogut could have made ONE block or been just enough of a deterrent defensively to push GSW to a win in game 7. Cleveland won at the last minute over a shorthanded team the last 3 games. They may have won anyway or they could have lost. They could have lost game 7 anyway. Kyrie hit a big shot but Curry and Dray missed shots just like that beforehand. If they had knocked down ONE shot to send the crowd into a frenzy, they could have ridden the rest of the game on adrenaline and won that way. Draymond missed a wide open shot that he made all year long. Cleveland had nothing to do with him missing a wide open shot.

It's not about one play.its about the fact that for the 12 minutes he averaged,golden state was being outscored. So anything he would have done would have come in a losing fashion. Your argument is illogical and I think you know this. Lol at Cleveland playing a short handed team. The only player that missed significant time was bogut and he was a detriment to his team. How is this so hard for you to understand?

[clipps]

Injuries or not, the Warriors choked a 3-1 lead with HCA. And took them 6 games to beat the depleted Cavs last year.

[Da_Realist]

It's not about one play.its about the fact that for the 12 minutes he averaged,golden state was being outscored. So anything he would have done would have come in a losing fashion. Your argument is illogical and I think you know this. Lol at Cleveland playing a short handed team. The only player that missed significant time was bogut and he was a detriment to his team. How is this so hard for you to understand?

Cleveland did not stomp GSW by 15 points. They won almost on the last play of game 7. Therefore, the series could have been won by either team if only one or two things had changed. It was that close. Bogut doesn't need to be a huge factor for 12 mins a game. All he needed to do is be a difference on one or two plays and that would have been enough. Same with Dray. This is not hard to understand. You always want your team at full strength. When your 3rd best player is suspended for a game, and the series is won based on one shot, you realize that could have changed things. When a guy that has had some success defensively on Lebron gets hurt and clearly has some issues with his back, you realize that could have turned the tide. When you have a starter miss 2.5 games (all losses) then you realize he could have played a part in stemming the tide.

GSW led 3-1 when Bogut was available to play the whole game. How's the statistic? That's not to say Cleveland didn't deserve it and it doesn't mean they wouldn't have won anyway. But these things should be pointed out when you see that Cleveland outscored GSW by a grand total of 4 points over the course of the series. Cleveland was not unbeatable. They played inspired ball over the last 3 games, GSW had a couple of breaks go against them and Cleveland took advantage of them. GSW didn't field their full team since Game 4. If Cleveland had won in 5 or 6 games then it may not have mattered but since they won in the last minute of the last game, and they did most of their damage in the games where GSW were not playing at full strength, then it at least deserves to be mentioned if you are honest. It may not have made a difference but the series was so close we can't rule it out.

[moongaze]

Cleveland did not stomp GSW by 15 points. They won almost on the last play of game 7. Therefore, the series could have been won by either team if only one or two things had changed. It was that close. Bogut doesn't need to be a huge factor for 12 mins a game. All he needed to do is be a difference on one or two plays and that would have been enough. Same with Dray. This is not hard to understand. You always want your team at full strength. When your 3rd best player is suspended for a game, and the series is won based on one shot, you realize that could have changed things. When a guy that has had some success defensively on Lebron gets hurt and clearly has some issues with his back, you realize that could have turned the tide. When you have a starter miss 2.5 games (all losses) then you realize he could have played a part in stemming the tide.

GSW led 3-1 when Bogut was available to play the whole game. How's the statistic? That's not to say Cleveland didn't deserve it and it doesn't mean they wouldn't have won anyway. But these things should be pointed out when you see that Cleveland outscored GSW by a grand total of 4 points over the course of the series. Cleveland was not unbeatable. They played inspired ball over the last 3 games, GSW had a couple of breaks go against them and Cleveland took advantage of them. GSW didn't field their full team since Game 4. If Cleveland had won in 5 or 6 games then it may not have mattered but since they won in the last minute of the last game, and they did most of their damage in the games where GSW were not playing at full strength, then it at least deserves to be mentioned if you are honest. It may not have made a difference but the series was so close we can't rule it out.


At this point I'm just going to assume that you are mentally challenged.

[Da_Realist]

At this point iyn just going to assume that you are mentally challenged.

Childish response. Come on now. Agree or disagree but personal attacks reflect on your character not mine. If it made no sense, you wouldn't be so frustrated.

[Nilocon165]

At this point I'm just going to assume that you are mentally challenged.
:roll:

[Da_Realist]

I've said all I can say anyway. I've been watching basketball since 1987 so I'm not stupid. I've seen how small changes make a big difference between two teams in a series more lopsided than the 2016 NBA Finals. No need to keep saying the same thing over and over anyway.

[tpols]

Da Realist .. you're arguing with dumb trolls for future ref bro

[Da_Realist]

Da Realist .. you're arguing with dumb trolls for future ref bro

I'm starting to see that. The first post was a good analysis so I thought this would be a good thread but now i see no thread is safe. :lol

[Da_Realist]

I'm starting to see that. The first post was a good analysis so I thought this would be a good thread but now i see no thread is safe. :lol

Oops. Wrong OP. Was thinking of the thread moongaze started when I said this --> http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412714

[ArbitraryWater]

I think it should be obvious to anyone that a healthy Cavs team was far better than a healthyy GSW team in 2015.. not sure why people debate it.

GSW was like 20% less good in 2015 than in 2016.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Yep. I was saying before the series started that the winner of the 2016 finals really wins two championships

4/7 :bowdown: :bowdown:

[aj1987]

Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.

#1 - Bogut played a total of 12 minutes a game.
#2 - Bogut played in ONE 4th Q and GSW were leading by 20+
#3 - Game 5, when Bogut was playing, LeBron scored 25 (the first half)
#4 - Bogut was a net negative in the Finals

Yeah, but lets pretend that Bogut's injury changed the outcome.

Ezeli played "big" minutes after Bogut went down. It was a lineup which murdered teams in the RS. Yet, they still got punched by the Cavs.


You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum.
LeBron dropped 41 on Green and Iggy the very next game on better percentages. If Green played in G5, LeBron probably would've shot better. You don't know that.


You aren't getting it because you don't want to get it. In the grand scheme of things, Bogut is nothing. Not a star. Nothing. But he does mean something to GSW beyond what is measured in the boxscore. He could have played enough so that the change of pace small ball could have been more effective. Maybe he snatches a couple of rebounds. We are only talking a minute difference that could have flipped the series. Cleveland wasn't unbeatable with or without Bogut.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

How do you not understand the FACT that the Warriors were getting outscored with Bogut ON THE COURT? Dude hadn't played in the 4th quarters, except in ONE blowout. Yeah, even if he was healthy, they weren't winning the chip.

You keep bringing up one play could've changed the outcome and bring up Green's suspension and Bogut's injury, but that one play happened at the END of the 4th in G7. Bogut wouldn't be on the floor, even if he was healthy and Green didn't do shit.

[warriorfan]

Watch game 7. Ezeli and Varejao completely shit the bed. Kevin Love dominated them and had 15 rebounds in that game...

Notice that the only game that Andrew Bogut doesn't play in...Kevin Love goes off and the Cavaliers win?

Even if Andrew Bogut plays 15 to 20 minutes, those are important minutes. If GS had Bogut playing for 12 minutes instead of Varejao and Ezeli, they would of won the game.

[Koresh]

The most ignorant way to discredit the 2016 Cavs title ever:

1. Bogut only played 12 minutes. These idiots act like he is prime Olajuwon.

2. Iggy had back spasms not a broken back. He played major minutes in game 7. He wasn't that injured after all.

3. The Cavs were winning game 5 with or without Green on the floor. It was their most important elimination game of the postseason; Green played in Game 6 and LeBron had the same production, so did it make much difference?

4. I guess you forget Kevin Love had a concussion in this series. Kyrie Irving hurt his foot in game 6 and was questionable for game 7 but he still played. Both teams were banged up.

5. Most important one. Warriors blew a 3-1 lead. They had multiple chances to seal the deal but they didn't. Cavs took advantage and they wanted to win and they deserved to win, end of story.


Stop crying. It's convenient to talk injuries now but all last year in 2015 was "no excuses" for the Cavs. That's all you heard but now you have to not give credit to the Cavs for winning a tough series. Makes no sense. Warriors faced 3 teams last year with all starting PGs being injured but no one said shit except "you beat the team that is in front of you LOL." Now it's flipped because it's LeBron James. This is really pathetic but this is ISH, I don't expect anything less than retardation.

[moongaze]

Watch game 7. Ezeli and Varejao completely shit the bed. Kevin Love dominated them and had 15 rebounds in that game...

Notice that the only game that Andrew Bogut doesn't play in...Kevin Love goes off and the Cavaliers win?

Even if Andrew Bogut plays 15 to 20 minutes, those are important minutes. If GS had Bogut playing for 12 minutes instead of Varejao and Ezeli, they would of won the game.

They would have won the game by getting outscored? Boy, that's a new one. The warriors were considerably better with ezeli and varejao playing than with bogut. Outside of game 2 he was completely worthless

[aj1987]

Watch game 7. Ezeli and Varejao completely shit the bed. Kevin Love dominated them and had 15 rebounds in that game...
Imagine that. A player making $22M has 9 points and 14 rebounds. :eek:


Notice that the only game that Andrew Bogut doesn't play in...Kevin Love goes off and the Cavaliers win?
Love had 17/13/2/1 in G1. I might be wrong, but I think Bogut played that game. :oldlol:


Even if Andrew Bogut plays 15 to 20 minutes, those are important minutes. If GS had Bogut playing for 12 minutes instead of Varejao and Ezeli, they would of won the game.
How about Curry making a bit more than 4 3's on 14 tries in G7. The lineup with Ezeli absolutely murdered teams in the RS. Curry shit the bed and they lost.

Again, since you're a bit dense, Bogut was net negative this series. No offense and the defense he provided wasn't sufficient for him to be a net positive player.

[moongaze]

Even bogut own team knows that he was worthless:. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/29/report-warriors-frustrated-with-andrew-bogut-could-trade-him-which-would-clear-room-for-kevin-durant/#

Excerpts

Monte Poole of CSN Bay Area:

Drafting Jones also was, according to league sources, an indication of the team

[KingPush]

Warriorfan still melting down. Bruh its been 2 weeks already :roll: :roll: :roll:

[red1]

Watch game 7. Ezeli and Varejao completely shit the bed. Kevin Love dominated them and had 15 rebounds in that game...

Notice that the only game that Andrew Bogut doesn't play in...Kevin Love goes off and the Cavaliers win?

Even if Andrew Bogut plays 15 to 20 minutes, those are important minutes. If GS had Bogut playing for 12 minutes instead of Varejao and Ezeli, they would of won the game.
warriorsfan pulling out every excuse in the book :roll:

just face it. kyrie outplayed curry, bron outplayed everyone in the series and your team just didn't close the deal.

it happens

[Sarcastic]

[QUOTE=moongaze]Even bogut own team knows that he was worthless:. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/29/report-warriors-frustrated-with-andrew-bogut-could-trade-him-which-would-clear-room-for-kevin-durant/#

Excerpts

Monte Poole of CSN Bay Area:

Drafting Jones also was, according to league sources, an indication of the team

[aj1987]

How can you be displeased with a guy for getting injured? He got injured playing for your team. He put his body on the line for your team.
[QUOTE]The Warriors apparently were displeased with much of Bogut

[Sarcastic]

..

[QUOTE]Bogut

[aj1987]

Like I said, how can getting injured wearing your jersey, annoy you?
I'm sure it was the injuries that were annoying them and not Bogut. It can be quite annoying when your DPOY level starting center can't even stay on the floor. I know that Bogut wasn't faking it or intentionally getting injured, but it can be frustrating to the FO, when the team is a contender and a key piece is never healthy.

[moongaze]

Like I said, how can getting injured wearing your jersey, annoy you?

Unreliable, on top of sucking.

[ArbitraryWater]

#1 - Bogut missed 2 games, playing 12 minutes a game through the previous 5
#2 - Bogut played in ONE 4th Q and GSW were leading by 20+
#3 - Bogut didn't play in last years finals after game 3 (was sat)
#4 - Game 5, when Bogut was playing, LeBron scored 25 (the first half)
#5 - Bogut was a net negative in the Finals

[ArbitraryWater]

Igoudala had back spasms in the second half of game 6, meanwhile Irving had ankle issues the same half, both were questionable for game 7, both played.

The only legit injury of the 2016 finals was to Cavalier Kevin Love, who because of a concussion, missed the second half of game 2, entire game 3, and played limited minutes in game 4 (25).

[Cali Syndicate]

Finals went to game 7 and was decided by basically a game winner. By ish logic = straight domination. :facepalm

[moongaze]

Finals went to game 7 and was decided by basically a game winner. By ish logic = straight domination. :facepalm

Outside of the first two games, where Cleveland was playing shook and golden state still had the mental edge after beating them in the final and 5 straight , it was domination. Cleveland won 4 out of the last 5 games and led for all but 14 minutes in games 3,5, 6. Even in game the game 4 loss Cleveland lead till late in the 3rd.

[Da_Realist]

Brent Barry with a fair analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5Z8O0HDqQ

[ArbitraryWater]

Brent Barry with a fair analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5Z8O0HDqQ

fair? Lmao stop being a salty MJ stan

He was naming injuries and you think it was fair... but not a single word heard on Kyrie's game 6 injury or Love :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

fair? Lmao stop being a salty MJ stan

He was naming injuries and you think it was fair... but not a single word heard on Kyrie's game 6 injury or Love :oldlol:

How the hell am I salty when I was hoping Cleveland would win? You kids get emotional every time someone disagrees with you. Stan this, stan that. Someone on the internet disagrees with you. So what? Go outside and play. ISH ain't real life.

It should be obvious why he didn't mention Irving. He was a major factor in winning 2 of the last 3 games. He didn't mention Love because Cleveland won without him.

[houston]

A win is a win, the Cavs deserve 2016 title, and the Warriors deserved 2015 title.


this true right here.

[ArbitraryWater]

How the hell am I salty when I was hoping Cleveland would win? You kids get emotional every time someone disagrees with you. Stan this, stan that. Someone on the internet disagrees with you. So what? Go outside and play. ISH ain't real life.

It should be obvious why he didn't mention Irving. He was a major factor in winning 2 of the last 3 games. He didn't mention Love because Cleveland won without him.

So because Cleveland made it past their injuries, they're less relevant?

You MJ clowns have no shame.... whole comment section calling Barry out but apparently it was 'fair analysis :oldlol:

Gimme a break... Irving had 20 pts on 50% at HT of game 6, dude hurt his ankle, and had to play decoy in the second half, taking just 6 shots, making one... forced a super human effort out of LeBron.

But instead were mentioning Iggys injury? FOH.

[SexSymbol]

Warriors were healthier last year. Irving was a worse player and Love sucked.
Last year it wouldn't even be 6 games if Cavs were healthy.

[K Xerxes]

Warriors were healthier last year. Irving was a worse player and Love sucked.
Last year it wouldn't even be 6 games if Cavs were healthy.

It's one thing not believing that Cavs would win, but to say it wouldn't even be as competitive with Kyrie and Love?

You are quite easily the worst poster on this site. Best part is you try to pass yourself off as 'reasonable' :lol

[Lebron23]

I hope we have another rematch next year.

[SexSymbol]

It's one thing not believing that Cavs would win, but to say it wouldn't even be as competitive with Kyrie and Love?

You are quite easily the worst poster on this site. Best part is you try to pass yourself off as 'reasonable' :lol

The cavs from last year and this year a vastly different team, because last year's team was almost exclusively defensive minded. The coaching change helped the team focus a little bit more on offense.
Last year, only defense won them those two games, and with Kyrie and Love they would've been either swept or won one game on their home court.
This year's cavs are just much better from a coaching standpoint.

[red1]

The cavs from last year and this year a vastly different team, because last year's team was almost exclusively defensive minded. The coaching change helped the team focus a little bit more on offense.
Last year, only defense won them those two games, and with Kyrie and Love they would've been either swept or won one game on their home court.
This year's cavs are just much better from a coaching standpoint.
What?

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j370/Jezey/Gag%20Disgust%20Eww%20Gifs/stare_look_away_disgusted.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

What?

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j370/Jezey/Gag%20Disgust%20Eww%20Gifs/stare_look_away_disgusted.gif

whatever helps him sleep at night

[SexSymbol]

What?

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j370/Jezey/Gag%20Disgust%20Eww%20Gifs/stare_look_away_disgusted.gif
can't handle the truth huh

[scuzzy]

Ah yes

The "Fans" eff rating

[K Xerxes]

The cavs from last year and this year a vastly different team, because last year's team was almost exclusively defensive minded. The coaching change helped the team focus a little bit more on offense.
Last year, only defense won them those two games, and with Kyrie and Love they would've been either swept or won one game on their home court.
This year's cavs are just much better from a coaching standpoint.

So they lacked offense last year, and the addition of Kyrie and Love would have led to a sweep... you do realise they would vastly improve their offense, as well as give some help to LeBron so he doesnt have to iso every position, nor require backup pg delly to play 40 minutes every game :oldlol:

[Rocketswin2013]

So they lacked offense last year, and the addition of Kyrie and Love would have led to a sweep... you do realise they would vastly improve their offense, as well as give some help to LeBron so he doesnt have to iso every position, nor require backup pg delly to play 40 minutes every game :oldlol:
agreed. there is no way the '15 Warriors give the healthy Cavs a loss.

[moongaze]

Sexsymbol is a retard. How can someone live with themselves being such a piece of shit? I wouldn't be able to stand myself.

[Hobbs]

Don

[hold this L]

People are complicating this way too much. In 15, Warriors had help with the injury to Kyrie since Love is hot garbage vs Warriors. Cavs had help since the Steph was playing hurt, Green got suspended and then both Bogs and Iggy were injured, the latter playing hurt. "The block" as it's known would have had 0 chance of happening with a healthy Iggy as he slammed that ball into the net instead of a layup. You can argue semantics on which team was hurt the most for the injuries, but both played huge roles for the Warriors and Cavs then to win their titles. Hopefully if there is a rematch this upcoming postseason, I wish for both teams to be healthy as they go at it. :pimp:

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Dubs going to Win it all this Year and the next and the next and the next

:mad: :mad:

[Nilocon165]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Dubs going to Win it all this Year and the next and the next and the next

:mad: :mad:
See you in the finals

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

See you in the finals

:cheers:

In the Mean time, lets admire perfection

http://www.femuita.altervista.org/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=4022

https://www.repstatic.it/content/nazionale/img/2016/08/06/193427360-68b192f0-d735-4d7b-a957-f3e65b90b285.jpg

http://www.blogsicilia.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Rossella-Fiamingo.jpg

[aj1987]

So much BS in Hobbs' post.

#1. TT was playing ~27 minutes a game before G5.
#2. With Bogut out, TT grabbed only 3 rebounds in G7, while playing 32 minutes.
#3. TT was averaging nearly 10 RPG in the first 4 games and averaged ~11 RPG in the following 3 games. ~1.5 increase in RPG, with an increase of ~12 minutes of playing time.
#4. Bogut was playing a negligible ~10 minutes a game and was a blackhole on offense.

Yeah, even with a healthy Bogut, the Cavs weren't losing. The Cavs also do not win without Love. Love was more important to the Cavs than Bogut was to the Warriors. The Warriors could've still won, if it wasn't for Ezeli's foul, Curry's retarded behind the back pass, and a plethora of bricks in the clutch in G7. Again, WITHOUT Bogut. The Cavs don't

Even if we exclude the game in which Bogut was injured, dude was averaging 3 rebounds a game. Now we're acting like he was a rebounding monster? Laughable. Also, Warriors got out rebounded in Games 1 & 3. WITH a HEALTHY Bogut. Funny how you forgot to mention that part.

Bogut missed 11 games in the RS and the Warriors went 11-1 in those games. The one loss coming against the Spurs, in a game in which Curry and Klay played like dog shit. Bogut was also a net negative in games 1, 3, 4, and 5. His minutes also fell significantly in the Finals. He played more minutes in the first 3 rounds in the WC.

If we go back to the previous season, Bogut BARELY played in the '15 Finals. The Cavs were crushing the Warriors with Bogut in the lineup and it pretty much reversed, when he was done.

So yeah, the Warriors small ball lineup >> their lineup with Bogut in it. Bogut's injury wasn't the reason Warriors lost.

[ArbitraryWater]

People are complicating this way too much. In 15, Warriors had help with the injury to Kyrie since Love is hot garbage vs Warriors. Cavs had help since the Steph was playing hurt, Green got suspended and then both Bogs and Iggy were injured, the latter playing hurt. "The block" as it's known would have had 0 chance of happening with a healthy Iggy as he slammed that ball into the net instead of a layup. You can argue semantics on which team was hurt the most for the injuries, but both played huge roles for the Warriors and Cavs then to win their titles. Hopefully if there is a rematch this upcoming postseason, I wish for both teams to be healthy as they go at it. :pimp:

Lmao, you've become pathetic, son. Even trying to equate the scenarios screams lunacy.

3-1 and lost, get fcked

[plowking]

Jesus AW is a turd. Does anyone take anything this little kid writes seriously?

Dude literally just posts about all his different sport crushes on here, from different sports, and how they're the best. Can it kid. No one wants to hear it.

[Jasper]

Easy to see Cleveland would had won that series with Irving playing. And anything from Love would had been gravy. Warriors were way better this season, and they still lost. Not hard to see Cleveland should be celebrating back-to-back titles if they weren't relying on a backup PG to produce like a #2. The Warriors 15 title is biggest asterisk title of all-time. Just an all-out epic joke. What makes it even sadder is the league MVP getting outplayed by role players in the last two Finals. :oldlol: PATHETIC.
Never thought of it that way.

War's best player =
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7MSh8zPpv8

[Hobbs]

So much BS in Hobbs' post.

#1. TT was playing ~27 minutes a game before G5.
#2. With Bogut out, TT grabbed only 3 rebounds in G7, while playing 32 minutes.
#3. TT was averaging nearly 10 RPG in the first 4 games and averaged ~11 RPG in the following 3 games. ~1.5 increase in RPG, with an increase of ~12 minutes of playing time.
#4. Bogut was playing a negligible ~10 minutes a game and was a blackhole on offense.

Yeah, even with a healthy Bogut, the Cavs weren't losing. The Cavs also do not win without Love. Love was more important to the Cavs than Bogut was to the Warriors. The Warriors could've still won, if it wasn't for Ezeli's foul, Curry's retarded behind the back pass, and a plethora of bricks in the clutch in G7. Again, WITHOUT Bogut. The Cavs don't

Even if we exclude the game in which Bogut was injured, dude was averaging 3 rebounds a game. Now we're acting like he was a rebounding monster? Laughable. Also, Warriors got out rebounded in Games 1 & 3. WITH a HEALTHY Bogut. Funny how you forgot to mention that part.

Bogut missed 11 games in the RS and the Warriors went 11-1 in those games. The one loss coming against the Spurs, in a game in which Curry and Klay played like dog shit. Bogut was also a net negative in games 1, 3, 4, and 5. His minutes also fell significantly in the Finals. He played more minutes in the first 3 rounds in the WC.

If we go back to the previous season, Bogut BARELY played in the '15 Finals. The Cavs were crushing the Warriors with Bogut in the lineup and it pretty much reversed, when he was done.

So yeah, the Warriors small ball lineup >> their lineup with Bogut in it. Bogut's injury wasn't the reason Warriors lost.

Yet TT had 16 rebounds during game 6 (one game after Bogut’s injury).

I didn’t say Bogut was a rebounding monster -- he was a crucial rim protector and shot-blocker for GS. Just look back at the OKC series and you’ll see how instrumental he was. He was largely benched, however, due to being in constant foul trouble and hacking being a big concern during the 4th quarter for the Dubs.

Bogut was a net negative overall because, again, Curry and Thompson had gone bizarrely cold on shooting throughout the series. He also played limited minutes in games 1 & 2 because GS’s bench was for some reason performing much better than their small ball death squad and as such Kerr didn't have any need to put him on the floor.

GS was out-rebounded in those games, yes, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Bogut was a crucial piece to their defense.

[jstern]

It is so true. I was thinking about that yesterday, that if any championship teams deserves an asterisk it's the 2015 Warriors. Forget just about the Finals, every one of their series was against teams that were severely handicapped due to injury.

[Jasper]

Yet TT had 16 rebounds during game 6 (one game after Bogut’s injury).

I didn’t say Bogut was a rebounding monster -- he was a crucial rim protector and shot-blocker for GS. Just look back at the OKC series and you’ll see how instrumental he was. He was largely benched, however, due to being in constant foul trouble and hacking being a big concern during the 4th quarter for the Dubs.

Bogut was a net negative overall because, again, Curry and Thompson had gone bizarrely cold on shooting throughout the series. He also played limited minutes in games 1 & 2 because GS’s bench was for some reason performing much better than their small ball death squad and as such Kerr didn't have any need to put him on the floor.

GS was out-rebounded in those games, yes, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Bogut was a crucial piece to their defense.
War's don't care about rebounds, they are happy in bounding the ball and throwing it up from 1/2 court. For them to start playing conventional , would be beyond Kerr's demeanor.

How many teams go on a 1 on 4 and throw up a 3 pointer like War's ????
NONE

[aj1987]

[QUOTE=Hobbs]Yet TT had 16 rebounds during game 6 (one game after Bogut

[BigKAT]

He also had a 13 rebound game WITH Bogut and a 3 rebound game WITHOUT Bogut (which happened to be Game 7).


Isn't that what I said? Bogut played nearly 20 minutes a game against the Thunder and ~12 minutes a game against the Cavs. Dude averaged 1 block a game against the Thunder and 2 a game agains the Cavs (which included and outlier G2). You yourself are claiming that he was a liability in the 4th and was often benched. How could he have done any "damage" sitting on the bench?


Curry and Thompson went ape shit in G4 and Bogut has a +/- of 0. The worst on the team from anyone who played over 5 minutes a game.


Yeah, he sure was. Dude was shutting down teams with his mammoth 10 minutes of defense a game.

Since you missed this part from my previous post:

If we go back to the previous season, Bogut BARELY played in the '15 Finals. The Cavs were crushing the Warriors with Bogut in the lineup and it pretty much reversed, when he was done.

The Cavs win even if Bogut played 10 minutes in games 6 & 7. But yeah, if you want to believe that Bogut, a player who was a net negative, was the reason why the Warriors lost, be my guest.


Dude.
Please.
Give up.

If it was Barnes who got hurt, they would've sworn that without him the death lineup was defunct and they couldn't win without his proper stretching of the floor, and might even cite his uber defense on LBJ.

And if it was Livingston who was hurt they would say that the lack of depth in the bench made them lost and point to Livingston scoring so much in the start of the series.

Give up man.

[BedroomBully]

http://i.giphy.com/888hCuypyqoF2.gif
:roll: :roll:
What ever happened to this low life?

[SamuraiSWISH]

It is so true. I was thinking about that yesterday, that if any championship teams deserves an asterisk it's the 2015 Warriors. Forget just about the Finals, every one of their series was against teams that were severely handicapped due to injury.
Easily. Kyrie fractured his knee right before, or very early in OT of game 1. A game Cleveland easily could've won. Especially if LeBron had properly closed, or if Kyrie could've done it for him in OT.

And the Cavs still almost won game 5 on the road as well. No Kyrie. No Love.

This wasn't a banged up Iggy. Or MIA Bogut for 2 games. Or even an earned one game suspension from that moron Draymond. Cleveland didn't have their 2nd and 3rd best player on the floor for basically the whole series.

Warrior bandwagon fans need to let that set in at some point. Especially for their weak excuse making of this year's Finals.

[Hobbs]

He also had a 13 rebound game WITH Bogut and a 3 rebound game WITHOUT Bogut (which happened to be Game 7).


Isn't that what I said? Bogut played nearly 20 minutes a game against the Thunder and ~12 minutes a game against the Cavs. Dude averaged 1 block a game against the Thunder and 2 a game agains the Cavs (which included and outlier G2). You yourself are claiming that he was a liability in the 4th and was often benched. How could he have done any "damage" sitting on the bench?


Curry and Thompson went ape shit in G4 and Bogut has a +/- of 0. The worst on the team from anyone who played over 5 minutes a game.


Yeah, he sure was. Dude was shutting down teams with his mammoth 10 minutes of defense a game.

Since you missed this part from my previous post:

If we go back to the previous season, Bogut BARELY played in the '15 Finals. The Cavs were crushing the Warriors with Bogut in the lineup and it pretty much reversed, when he was done.

The Cavs win even if Bogut played 10 minutes in games 6 & 7. But yeah, if you want to believe that Bogut, a player who was a net negative, was the reason why the Warriors lost, be my guest.

I didn’t comment on it because I didn’t see last year’s finals, but from what I’ve read, GS’s difficulty during the 2015 finals didn’t have anything to do with Bogut. What I did see, however, was GS vs. OKC and how Bogut was instrumental to GS’s victory.

OKC’s bigs literally played hog rebound whenever he wasn’t on the floor and without him, GS would not have won, so let’s not exaggerate and make it seem like GS didn't have any use for him (even against the Cavs), when they clearly did.

He was a potential liability during the 4th, but he “held down the fort”, so to speak, prior to being benched against OKC with his rim protecting and shot blocking. I rewatched games 5 & 6 of the finals and noticed GS had considerable difficulty with rim protection, shot blocking, and rebounds after Bogut’s injury.

I won’t refute the rest of your arguments because I agree with them, but you don’t think Bogut’s presence would have made at least A LITTLE bit of difference? GS had definite problems with rim protection during game 7. Ezeli and Varejao were all they had and they were terrible, particularly Varejao.

I definitely think he would have made a considerable difference over those two had he played in game 7. At the very least, he would not have been pump faked.

[SpaceJam]

2014 Finals Win Completely Discredits Heat's *13 Title

Easy to see Spurs would had won that series with Mills playing.

Not hard to see San Antonio should be celebrating back-to-back titles if they weren't relying on a third string PG to produce like a back up point.

The Heat 13 title is biggest asterisk title of all-time. Just an all-out epic joke.


trololol