If Dirk had privilege Wade had in the 2006 Finals

[feyki]

Dirk and Wade had similar free throws attempts until finals in the playoffs . And in the finals , Wade almost doubled Dirk on free throws attempts . Well , What would happened ; if Dirk almost doubled Wade on free throws attempts in the finals ?

No fixes ;

Wade - 34.7 Points , %57 TS , 113 Ortg

Dirk - 22.8 Points , %53 TS , 109 Ortg


Fixed ;

Wade - 29.3 Points , %54 TS , 108 Ortg

Dirk - 28.8 Points , %59 TS , 115 Ortg


And ..

Game 3 : Mavs 96- Heat 98

Game 5 : Mavs 100 - Heat 101

Game 6 : Mavs 92 - Heat 95

I guess , we can say series would over in five games at most with that whatif . And Dirk would got that fmvp too .

Wade still looking better with defensive side . But in the result , Wade wouldn't had Jordan-esque finals . And Dirk wouldn't got that loser tag on him .

[Ben Simmons]

Dirk is a jumpshooter. Wade is a rim slasher. Get this nonsense out of here.

The refs gave him freethrows to end the game and he missed them.
Why would they rig a game and allow Dirk to win it with freethrows? Dirk choked. Wade won. Get over it.

Also it was Mark Cuban who lobbied the league for the freethrow increase anyways.

[Dresta]

Dirk was well defended by Haslem and Posey--Dallas didn't have anyone who could stay in front of Wade, and kept fouling him--the comparison is idiotic.

[MintBerryCrunch]

Dirk was well defended by Haslem and Posey--Dallas didn't have anyone who could stay in front of Wade, and kept fouling him--the comparison is idiotic.
The refs called fouls even when there were none, or ticky tack fouls that weren't called evenly on both sides.

[SCdac]

Not exactly the only time Dirk soured at some point in the playoffs, I mean did you watch his next playoff series :confusedshrug:

[feyki]

This is what-if thread guys . Don't break out the concept .

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dude seriously ...

Enough of you racist, tin foil hat wearing, woe is me Dallas conspiracy basketball theorists. Let it go. You lost. Choked it all away fair and square. 10 years ago already. Move on.

Dirk isn't near as dimensional or dominant a player as Wade, and he choked at the free throw line anyway.

Wade is an elite all time slasher and draws actual earned fouls getting to the basket for easy looks. It's the most valuable thing to do on offense. Jump shooters don't get calls like that because they play soft and take the easy route out just jacking up shots.


Dirk is a jumpshooter. Wade is a rim slasher. Get this nonsense out of here.

The refs gave him freethrows to end the game and he missed them.
Why would they rig a game and allow Dirk to win it with freethrows? Dirk choked. Wade won. Get over it.

Also it was Mark Cuban who lobbied the league for the freethrow increase anyways.
Exactly.

Were some of the calls soft? Yes but Cuban pushed for that ... and it's still not the only reason Wade was getting the lion share of the calls. He attacked, didn't settle.

[feyki]

Dude seriously ...

Enough of you racist, tin foil hat wearing, woe is me Dallas conspiracy basketball theorists. Let it go. You lost. Choked it all away fair and square. 10 years ago already. Move on.

Dirk isn't near as dimensional or dominant a player as Wade, and he choked at the free throw line anyway.

Wade is an elite all time slasher and draws actual earned fouls getting to the basket for easy looks. It's the most valuable thing to do on offense. Jump shooters don't get calls like that because they play soft and take the easy route out just jacking up shots.


Exactly.

I wonder your face when got owned by Dirk in the 2011 .

What's the butthurt ? You already turned this thread a Wade-Dirk comparison and disrespecting Dirk .

What a pathetic way to live ..

And please guys , don't turn the thread like this type shit .

[DMAVS41]

I think an objective look at the finals is very difficult in this case because it's just two fan bases going back and forth.

The problem was not rigging or one sided refs...the problem was the rules the NBA implemented and how the game was called.

The reason Wade got to the line more was in part of course because he attacked relentlessly and earned it, but also because the rules in place made it easier for perimeter players to get calls...because you essentially could not touch someone driving to the basket.

By default...this benefits a player like Wade more than Dirk.

Where the imbalance came, in the finals imo, was all the grabbing and holding of Dirk off the ball that went uncalled. Haslem and Posey did a good job, but they also got away with a lot.

But that is in part on Dirk and Avery for not coming up with better ways to exploit that as well.

Do I think if the series was called right down the middle fairly..the Mavs win? Sure...they were the better team imo. But that isn't what happened...and honestly that rarely happens. Certain styles get the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs...just look at some of those Celtics teams with KG/Allen/Pierce...that fouled every ****ing play.

In the end...the Mavs/Dirk had enough to win...and Dirk didn't play well enough to come through..and Avery once again looked like a terrible coach.

Wade was great...and deserve the win...and Pat Riley coached circles around Avery.

From a broad perspective...it was Cuban's fault. He didn't build as good of a team as most could given the lack of limitations...and he hired the wrong coach.

But can we please stop acting like it was a rigged series or something? The refs called it based on the rules for the most part and the star player on the Heat was way better than the star player on the Mavs.

End of the day...that and the things above was the difference. And the Mavs got the ultimate revenge in 11.

I'd easily trade the 06 titles for upsetting prime Wade/Lebron/Bosh in the finals. A team so good that people were calling it "unfair for the league" before the finals.

It was epic...and totally worth it.

Feel bad for Wade though about it...always liked and respected him...but his place in NBA history was severely diminished by that 11 finals...and it wasn't his fault at all...he was great.

Another title and finals MVP for Wade would have put him on a completely different tier historically the way people rank. Ouch...thanks Lebron.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I wonder your face when got owned by Dirk in the 2011 .
Wade was substantially better than Dirk in the 2011 Finals as well. Heat lost because Terry went off. Chandler's rim protection. Old Jason Kidd and Marion locking up Bron. And LeBron subsequently sulking on the court.

2006 Finals Game Score

Wade - 25.4
Dirk - 16.2
Terry - 13.9

2011 Finals Game Score

Wade - 22.7
Dirk - 16.6
Terry - 13.4

That's with Wade hurt the last 2 games of the series from the hip flexor. He was clearly the best player on the court, on both sides of the ball, for both teams for the entire series. And that's without excuse making soft foul calls he got like in 2006.

Your boy Dirk is closer to Jason Terry level impact than he ever was a player the caliber of D-Wade. Nowitzki is the most overrated, one dimensional player I've ever seen. He provides next to nothing beyond jump shooting based scoring.

[DMAVS41]

Wade was substantially better than Dirk in the 2011 Finals as well. Heat lost because Terry went off. Chandler's rim protection. Old Jason Kidd and Marion locking up Bron. And LeBron subsequently sulking on the court.

2006 Finals Game Score

Wade - 25.4
Dirk - 16.2
Terry - 13.9

2011 Finals Game Score

Wade - 22.7
Dirk - 16.6
Terry - 13.4

That's with Wade hurt the last 2 games of the series from the hip flexor. He was clearly the best player on the court, on both sides of the ball, for both teams for the entire series. And that's without excuse making soft foul calls he got like in 2006.

Your boy Dirk is closer to Jason Terry level impact than he ever was a player the caliber of D-Wade. Nowitzki is the most overrated, one dimensional player I've ever seen. He provides next to nothing beyond jump shooting based scoring.

Do you really expect to have a civil discussion worth anyone's time after saying the bold?

You honestly believe that Dirk is closer to Terry than Wade?

You honestly believe he's the most over-rated player ever?

[feyki]

Wade was substantially better than Dirk in the 2011 Finals as well. Heat lost because Terry went off. Chandler's rim protection. Old Jason Kidd and Marion locking up Bron. And LeBron subsequently sulking on the court.

2006 Finals Game Score

Wade - 25.4
Dirk - 16.2
Terry - 13.9

2011 Finals Game Of

Wade - 22.7
Dirk - 16.6
Terry - 13.4

That's with Wade hurt the last 2 games of the series from the hip flexor. He was clearly the best player on the court, on both sides of the ball, for both teams for the entire series. And that's without excuse making soft foul calls he got like in 2006.

Your boy Dirk is closer to Jason Terry level impact than he ever was a player the caliber of D-Wade. Nowitzki is the most overrated, one dimensional player I've ever seen. He provides next to nothing beyond jump shooting based scoring.

:roll: :roll:

Tell us more about your hate :oldlol: .

[feyki]

I think an objective look at the finals is very difficult in this case because it's just two fan bases going back and forth.

The problem was not rigging or one sided refs...the problem was the rules the NBA implemented and how the game was called.

The reason Wade got to the line more was in part of course because he attacked relentlessly and earned it, but also because the rules in place made it easier for perimeter players to get calls...because you essentially could not touch someone driving to the basket.

By default...this benefits a player like Wade more than Dirk.

Where the imbalance came, in the finals imo, was all the grabbing and holding of Dirk off the ball that went uncalled. Haslem and Posey did a good job, but they also got away with a lot.

But that is in part on Dirk and Avery for not coming up with better ways to exploit that as well.

Do I think if the series was called right down the middle fairly..the Mavs win? Sure...they were the better team imo. But that isn't what happened...and honestly that rarely happens. Certain styles get the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs...just look at some of those Celtics teams with KG/Allen/Pierce...that fouled every ****ing play.

In the end...the Mavs/Dirk had enough to win...and Dirk didn't play well enough to come through..and Avery once again looked like a terrible coach.

Wade was great...and deserve the win...and Pat Riley coached circles around Avery.

From a broad perspective...it was Cuban's fault. He didn't build as good of a team as most could given the lack of limitations...and he hired the wrong coach.

But can we please stop acting like it was a rigged series or something? The refs called it based on the rules for the most part and the star player on the Heat was way better than the star player on the Mavs.

End of the day...that and the things above was the difference. And the Mavs got the ultimate revenge in 11.

I'd easily trade the 06 titles for upsetting prime Wade/Lebron/Bosh in the finals. A team so good that people were calling it "unfair for the league" before the finals.

It was epic...and totally worth it.

Feel bad for Wade though about it...always liked and respected him...but his place in NBA history was severely diminished by that 11 finals...and it wasn't his fault at all...he was great.

Another title and finals MVP for Wade would have put him on a completely different tier historically the way people rank. Ouch...thanks Lebron.


I think , seeking "New Jordan" was factor on getting calls too . Who's Dirk ? How you can marketing him ? With "New Dan Issel" or "Soft version of Pettit " ?

"New Jordan" much more money for Stern . Or Dirk was playing like perimeter too , he was getting the line as much as Wade until finals . It just not about rules for me .

But it passed away , it is what it is .

[SamuraiSWISH]

Do you really expect to have a civil discussion worth anyone's time after saying the bold?

You honestly believe that Dirk is closer to Terry than Wade?

You honestly believe he's the most over-rated player ever?
Dirk's production in those Finals is closer to Terry than Wade. Facts. How can you disagree?

He's the most overrated on ish. And most overrated among the games most recent crop of stars or superstars.

I never consider him better than: KG, Duncan, Malone, and Barkley. Durant is already been way better since 2010 as well.

Of course you're biased in this discussion. Looks at the username.

[DMAVS41]

I think , seeking "New Jordan" was factor on getting calls too . Who's Dirk ? How you can marketing him ? With "New Dan Issel" or "Soft version of Pettit " ?

"New Jordan" much more money for Stern . Or Dirk was playing like perimeter too , he was getting the line as much as Wade until finals . It just not about rules for me .

But it passed away , it is what it is .

Maybe, but you also have to realize that in the NBA finals...even more than the playoffs....refs tend to let more off ball contact go.

It's just the nature of the game. You have to either sell off ball contact more to get calls, or be able to play through it. At that point in his career, Dirk wasn't great at either of those things...and he needed a better coach to help him there.

This is where Riley is such a genius...he gets his teams to do little stuff like that...that really impacts the games...but mostly goes not noticed.

In the end...I think I'm comfortable saying that the Mavs were likely better all things considered, but that the Heat deserved to win that series.

Again...it's all ultimately on Cuban. He should have built a better team and he hired the wrong coach.

Complaining at this point is silly. We got the title and beat them in epic and embarrassing fashion.

[plowking]

Wade was the best player in both finals. That was blatantly obvious.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade was the best player in both finals. That was blatantly obvious.
No one in either of them was remotely close. That's why all this Dirk 2011 Finals hype is absurd.

[plowking]

No one in either of them was remotely close. That's why all this Dirk 2011 Finals hype is absurd.

He was comfortably the best player throughout the playoffs as a whole though.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk's production in those Finals is closer to Terry than Wade. Facts. How can you disagree?

He's the most overrated on ish. And most overrated among the games most recent crop of stars or superstars.

I never consider him better than: KG, Duncan, Malone, and Barkley. Durant is already been way better since 2010 as well.

Of course you're biased in this discussion. Looks at the username.

I'm not the one saying absurd things. And I'd like you to point what I've said that is biased so far in this thread.

What you aren't grasping is the impact Dirk makes on a team without touching the ball. He is the one opening up all the space and lanes and shots for a guy like Terry to excel in.

Dirk was a true championship first option all time great player. Terry is a 6th man type player that is not remotely in the same league as Dirk.

You have to factor that stuff in. Wade was an afterthought in the 11 finals. Doesn't change the fact that he was great, but the Mavs were all about stopping Lebron...and the Heat were all about stopping Dirk. The Mavs could have just as easily shut down Wade in that series like the Bulls did when he was shooting sub 50% TS and not even averaging 19 points per game. But the Mavs were smart to go at Lebron...and we won because of it.

So...yea...Wade facing single coverage and being an afterthought is going to perform better than a player getting the entire focus of a team defensively.

How about you compare Dirk's finals to Wade's ECF...or Terry's finals to Wade's ECF? Wade shouldn't have even made the finals if not for an all time loaded team given his play in the ECF.

I don't care to argue Dirk vs the best power forwards ever. He's on that level...where he actually ranks within them...meh....up to the person.

Durant was not already better than Dirk in 2010. Dirk owned his ass and was clearly the best player in the 11 playoffs. You have no basis to say that.

[DMAVS41]

He was comfortably the best player throughout the playoffs as a whole though.

He was terrible in the 11 ECF. Going into the finals...both Dirk and Lebron were better than Wade was.

Nothing comfortable at all about Wade being the best player in the playoffs that year.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

He was terrible in the 11 ECF. Going into the finals...both Dirk and Lebron were better than Wade was.

Nothing comfortable at all about Wade being the best player in the playoffs that year.

He meant Dirk was the best in the playoffs, not Wade.

Plowking said Wade was better in the Finals. But Dirk was the best in the whole playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

He meant Dirk was the best in the playoffs, not Wade.

Plowking said Wade was better in the Finals. But Dirk was the best in the whole playoffs.

Oh...got it. Agree.

[plowking]

He meant Dirk was the best in the playoffs, not Wade.

Plowking said Wade was better in the Finals. But Dirk was the best in the whole playoffs.

Yep.

Think DMAVS is just getting a little emotional and reading too fast. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Yep.

Think DMAVS is just getting a little emotional and reading too fast. :oldlol:

I corrected.

[plowking]

I corrected.

I wasn't getting at you. But I know some people get heated on here reading and just mash to essentially say "**** you". :oldlol:

Not hating.

[DMAVS41]

I wasn't getting at you. But I know some people get heated on here reading and just mash to essentially say "**** you". :oldlol:

Not hating.

No worries...not heated at all.

Just was responding to the notion that Wade was comfortably the best player in the playoffs...which is what I misread it as.

[feyki]

Maybe, but you also have to realize that in the NBA finals...even more than the playoffs....refs tend to let more off ball contact go.

It's just the nature of the game. You have to either sell off ball contact more to get calls, or be able to play through it. At that point in his career, Dirk wasn't great at either of those things...and he needed a better coach to help him there.

This is where Riley is such a genius...he gets his teams to do little stuff like that...that really impacts the games...but mostly goes not noticed.

In the end...I think I'm comfortable saying that the Mavs were likely better all things considered, but that the Heat deserved to win that series.

Again...it's all ultimately on Cuban. He should have built a better team and he hired the wrong coach.

Complaining at this point is silly. We got the title and beat them in epic and embarrassing fashion.

No .. No , it wasn't like complaining . I didn't make this thread for Wade or Refs . I just wanted to show how can it change with only calls . It's about Dirk . Dirk was getting a lot of hits by Haslem , but he didn't get those calls while Wade got all . This thread only shows what would happened to Dirk , if he got calls .

I think , Heat and Wade deserved that ring too . I will always think about refs when thinking that finals . But doesn't matter .

[DMAVS41]

No .. No , it wasn't like complaining . I didn't make this thread for Wade or Refs . I just wanted to show how can it change with only calls . It's about Dirk . Dirk was getting a lot of hits by Haslem , but he didn't get those calls while Wade got all . This thread only shows what would happened to Dirk , if he got calls .

I think , Heat and Wade deserved that ring too . I will always think about refs when thinking that finals . But doesn't matter .

Right...I get that, but again...those off ball fouls or fouls in the post are a lot different than fouls driving to the basket.

Dirk/Avery did a poor job in that series of exploiting both the contact and how the Heat guarded Dirk/Mavs.

And, simply, Haslem/Posey played way better defense than the Mavs perimeter guys did as well. That has to be factored in.

[feyki]

Right...I get that, but again...those off ball fouls or fouls in the post are a lot different than fouls driving to the basket.

Dirk/Avery did a poor job in that series of exploiting both the contact and how the Heat guarded Dirk/Mavs.

And, simply, Haslem/Posey played way better defense than the Mavs perimeter guys did as well. That has to be factored in.

They were really tough defenders . And plus , Wade was amazing active defensively . Even .. Was there any player above than average defensively on the Mavs ? Maybe .. Josh .

[DMAVS41]

They were really tough defenders . And plus , Wade was amazing active defensively . Even .. Was there any player above than average defensively on the Mavs ? Maybe .. Josh .

Nobody that moved the needle much. Devin wasn't bad by any means, Griffin was pretty good, but nobody that actually made an impact of note on the perimeter defensively.

This is why I blame Cuban. He built a poor team given the circumstances.

We should have had at least like a 10% better team in terms of players and a 50% better coach.

This goes unnoticed way too often.

[ArbitraryWater]

Your boy Dirk is closer to Jason Terry level impact than he ever was a player the caliber of D-Wade. Nowitzki is the most overrated, one dimensional player I've ever seen. He provides next to nothing beyond jump shooting based scoring.

You wonder why people dont take you seriously lol

[LikeABosh]

Wade attacked the basket at ****ing will. Dirk shot fadeaway jumpers. 10 years later and Mavs fans still this butthurt:roll:

[LikeABosh]

The refs called fouls even when there were none, or ticky tack fouls that weren't called evenly on both sides.
Post proof. Every time this discussion happens you ******s show the same 3-4 calls. That's literally all you can come up with, out of all the FTs he got.

[ArbitraryWater]

I can't believe the dude had 3 20+ FT games.... what the fck is that :biggums:

Wade shot 97 free throws in six games -- the most of any player since the merger :biggums:

More than peak Shaq :biggums:

[SamuraiSWISH]

You wonder why people dont take you seriously lol
Only you.

You're opinion means nadda to me. You're a basketball newbie. A LeBron Stan ... So at most you're 15 to 20 years old. A month or so ago you claimed defiantly Curry > Kobe ever was.

:oldlol:

In the 2006 and 2011 Finals, Dirk's level of production was closer to Terry than it was Wade. Dywane substantially out played him.

That doesn't mean Dirk and Terry are equal as players for their career, moron. I wasn't even implying that. Both are one dimensional shooters for their career. Dirk is just way better at it. But he's hardly as dimensional or productive a player as Wade. Not even close.

Get over your Dirk hype. It doesn't bear out statistically. He had a great 2nd round and conference finals. Decent 1st round and average Finals in 2011.

[ArbitraryWater]

Only you.

You're opinion means nadda to me. You're a basketball newbie. A LeBron Stan ... So at most you're 15 to 20 years old. A month or so ago you claimed defiantly Curry > Kobe ever was.

:oldlol:

In the 2006 and 2011 Finals, Dirk's level of production was closer to Terry than it was Wade. Dywane substantially out played him.

That doesn't mean Dirk and Terry are equal as players for their career, moron. I wasn't even implying that. Both are one dimensional shooters for their career. Dirk is just way better at it. But he's hardly as dimensional or productive a player as Wade. Not even close.

Get over your Dirk hype. It doesn't bear out statistically. He had a great 2nd round and conference finals. Decent 1st round and average Finals in 2011.

You literally called me a good poster two weeks ago...

now I mean nothing to you... these emotional outburts on your side are reminiscent of female teenagers on their period.. Shame on you bringing such bitchassness to the MJ fam... someone with thick skin will slap the shit out of you.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2011 Game Scores

1st round:

Dirk: 18.2

LeBron: 22.8
Wade: 18.9

2nd round

Dirk: 20.5

Wade: 23.8
LeBron: 20.3

Conference Finals

Dirk: 23.5

LeBron: 21.9
Wade: 11.1

NBA Finals

Dirk: 16.6

Wade: 22.7
LeBron: 13.7

Post Season Average:
Wade: 19.1
Dirk: 19.7
LeBron: 19.6

People acting like Dirk had the greatest playoff and Finals run ever on ISH. They're all roughly equal.

That's with both Wade and Bron having some totally out of character bad series skewing their averages.

:facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

This dude just completely changed his religion to game score :biggums:

Let me try this...

Dirk's 2006 post-season win shares are the third highest playoff win shares EVER




















































:lebronamazed:



Higher than '06 Wade... only behind '03 Duncan and '09 LeBron....

what a group of legendary post-seasons... and thats with an out of character bad series skewing his averages....

truly :applause: worthy

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's not religion but I think for raw production ... It's really good stream lined tool to measure a level of performance. It bears out with eye test and perception.

[ArbitraryWater]

5+ Win Shares Post-seasons:

'13 LeBron
'12 LeBron
'09 LeBron
'06 Dirk
'03 Duncan

'91, '93, '96 and '00 Shaq were reaaaaally close but just off....

hats off to these legendary playoff performers :applause:






























No Kobe :yaohappy:

[SamuraiSWISH]

How do you not agree about Game Score? It's totally a measure of individual production. Nothing team related skews it, or amplify a performance. There's nothing to hide behind.

[Mr Feeny]

Dirk is a jumpshooter. Wade is a rim slasher. Get this nonsense out of here.

The refs gave him freethrows to end the game and he missed them.
Why would they rig a game and allow Dirk to win it with freethrows? Dirk choked. Wade won. Get over it.

Also it was Mark Cuban who lobbied the league for the freethrow increase anyways.This guy gets it. I wonder if op watches basketball. Wade was the best slasher in the game for a couple or years atleast. Dirk was out near the 3 point line shooting 1 legged fadeaway at a eally inefficient rate.

Swish posted the game scores for both of dirks finals. Both were abysmal.

What Wade did wasn't "privilege". It was getting himself to the line and willing his team to victory. Dirk couldn't do the same and has to settle for tough fadeaways.
He also choked in games 3 and 5 which would have shut the door and won the mass the 2006 title.

It isn't the referees' fault that Dirk was missing free throws with 50 seconds to go in a 1 possession game of a pivotal game.
Stop crying.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Game score literally just punches together raw box-score stats, as I said.

It tells you NOTHING about impact except what some doofus attributes category to category - arbitrarily too.

RAPM and RPM actually take into account minutes, oppponents, lineups, defenses, etc. and attribute impact proportionally. The least flawed advanced stat we have EASILY.

Dirk's 2011 playoff run was better than Wade and LeBron's. If you're talking about the finals, then its Wade. RAPM, winshares (flawed) and PER all back up Dirk's greatness though. lol @ "Game score" being an accurate measure of an individual's impact.

[Mr Feeny]

Wade attacked the basket at ****ing will. Dirk shot fadeaway jumpers. 10 years later and Mavs fans still this butthurt:roll:It's unbelievable isn't it:oldlol:

I wish these kids would actually watch the series instead of spouting the same banal rhetoric.
The mavs just couldn't deal with a dwayne Wade who was attacking relentlessly.

[Mr Feeny]

Game score literally just punches together raw box-score stats, as I said.

It tells you nothing about IMPACT except what some doofus attributes category to category. Arbitrarily too.

RAPM and RPM actually take into account minutes, oppponents, lineups, defenses, etc. and attribute impact proportionaly. The least flawed advanced stat we have EASILY.

Dirk's 2011 playoff run was better than Wade and LeBron's. If you're talking about the finals, then its Wade. RAPM, winshares (flawed) and PER all back up Dirk's greatness. lol @ "G ame score".That's what we're discussing. The finals. It isn't a discussion. Wade was much better while dirk was sub-par. That was the difference between the 2 teams.

[Mr Feeny]

This dude just completely changed his religion to game score :biggums:

Let me try this...

Dirk's 2006 post-season win shares are the third highest playoff win shares EVER



That's no the discussion though, a.w.
It's about the finals.

[feyki]

5+ Win Shares Post-seasons:

'13 LeBron
'12 LeBron
'09 LeBron
'06 Dirk
'03 Duncan

'91, '93, '96 and '00 Shaq were reaaaaally close but just off....

hats off to these legendary playoff performers :applause:






























No Kobe :yaohappy:

09 Lebron was below 5 .

And their average SRS of opponents ;

06 Dirk - 4.9

03 Duncan - 4.2

12 Lebron - 3.4

13 Lebron - 2.1

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's what we're discussing. The finals. It isn't a discussion. Wade was much better while dirk was sub-par. That was the difference between the 2 teams.

I would agree ...

:confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

09 Lebron was below 5 .

And their average SRS of opponents ;

06 Dirk - 4.9

03 Duncan - 4.2

12 Lebron - 3.4

13 Lebron - 2.1

yup... '09 was 0.17 off... my bad.

Wow.. Dirk against the best competition too... what a competitor :applause:

[feyki]

That's no the discussion though, a.w.
It's about the finals.

http://cdn.niketalk.com/f/f6/350x700px-LL-f6cfd283_marcuscamby.gif

Germen bro ;

Yep , 2006 Dirk was amazing .

Long Hair Dirk :rockon: :rockon:

[ArbitraryWater]

Game score literally just punches together raw box-score stats, as I said.

It tells you NOTHING about impact except what some doofus attributes category to category - arbitrarily too.

RAPM and RPM actually take into account minutes, oppponents, lineups, defenses, etc. and attribute impact proportionally. The least flawed advanced stat we have EASILY.

Dirk's 2011 playoff run was better than Wade and LeBron's. If you're talking about the finals, then its Wade. RAPM, winshares (flawed) and PER all back up Dirk's greatness though. lol @ "Game score" being an accurate measure of an individual's impact.

even plow got behind Dirk >> Wade in the '11 playffs lol...

anyway, yea, not sure when game score became this big.. literally just happened :wtf:

Good on you for having an eye on each stat.

Dirk and Wade's 11 finals were so opposite.. Wade was so good but bad in the clutch... scoreless in the final 6 mins of game 1, missed the GT FT in game 3...

Dirk's was exactly the other way around...

poor (albeit had a flu game and the busted finger), and closed out every game like a god.... 2 game winning plays (only short of '97 MJ and his THREE)....

Third highest finals 4th quarter ppg ever (10.7), second highest finals 4th quarter TS% ever... historical +/- ....

:bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk was 45/46 on FT's in the finals :wtf:

[Mr Feeny]

I would agree ...

:confusedshrug:

Fair enough. I don't know why I'm arguing with you.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk scored 10+ points in 5 out of 6 game 4th quarters with a 60+% TS...

10 ppg on 51/53/94

+ 2 game winners

:wtf:













































https://i.gyazo.com/5ef9347cbc90624bb4d6d15136905ef3.png



https://i.gyazo.com/bb2064e89d9dbefcc78ed04ec910e76d.png

[tpols]

Dirk was 45/46 on FT's in the finals :wtf:

And bron & wade were 46/69.. good for oddly enough 66.6% from the charity stripe.. looks like their pact with the devil backfired.. and Dirk came and stole the crown in cruncthime.

^^ those FTs mean a whole lot seeing how close this series was. crunchtime was very prevalent, way more than it was this year or last year.. or even the year before that so the margins were tiny. Neither of them even able to hit 70% FTs killed the team.

[Mr Feeny]

even plow got behind Dirk >> Wade in the '11 playffs lol...

anyway, yea, not sure when game score became this big.. literally just happened :wtf:

Good on you for having an eye on each stat.

Dirk and Wade's 11 finals were so opposite.. Wade was so good but bad in the clutch... scoreless in the final 6 mins of game 1, missed the GT FT in game 3...

Dirk's was exactly the other way around...

poor (albeit had a flu game and the busted finger), and closed out every game like a god.... 2 game winning plays (only short of '97 MJ and his THREE)....

Third highest finals 4th quarter ppg ever (10.7), second highest finals 4th quarter TS% ever... historical +/- ....

:bowdown:

If we're just talking about the finals, then dirk averages 26, 9, and 2 on 41%fg. His efg% was 44%. I realize you love Dirk but this is a little ridiculous. Those are nothing to write home about:biggums:

Meanwhile Wade has 26.5, 7, 5 (along with more steals and blocks then the 7 foot dirk ) on 55% fg and 58%efg. His ts% was 61 percent.

You're on of the great posters on here. This can't seriously be a discussion. This can't possibly be what you think. You cannot convince me or anyone for a second that Dirk had a better 2011 finals than Wade. That's insane.

:no: :coleman:

[ArbitraryWater]

And bron & wade were 46/69.. good for oddly enough 66.6% from the charity stripe.. looks like their pact with the devil backfired.. and Dirk came and stole the crown in cruncthime.

^^ those FTs mean a whole lot seeing how close this series was. crunchtime was very prevalent, way more than it was this year or last year.. or even the year before that so the margins were tiny. Neither of them even able to hit 70% FTs killed the team.

true... 4 games went down the wire, of which the Mavs won 3...




















https://i.gyazo.com/bd0d7ca7ac0caaef1e9080e03210d05e.png


look at this humble man chilling with strangers

[ArbitraryWater]

If we're just talking about the finals, then dirk averages 26, 9, and 2 on 41%fg. His efg% was 44%. I realize you love Dirk but this is a little ridiculous. Those are nothing to write home about:biggums:

Meanwhile Wade has 26.5, 7, 5 (along with more steals and blocks then the 7 foot dirk ) on 55% fg and 58%efg. His ts% was 61 percent.

You're on of the great posters on here. This can't seriously be a discussion. This can't possibly be what you think. You cannot convince me or anyone for a second that Dirk had a better 2011 finals than Wade. That's insane.

:no: :coleman:


This is more about Dirk taking Wade's lunch cookies in the clutch, running a train over the Heat when it mattered...

Highest 4th Qtr PPG Average since 1995 (10+):

1997 Michael Jordan: 10.7 PPG
1998 Michael Jordan: 10.6 PPG
2000 Shaquille O'Neal: 11.4 PPG
2011 Dirk Nowitzki: 10.4 PPG

^ thats what IM paying my respect for :applause:

Those 41% shooting? Eh, of course that will look like shit when theres a 6-19 flu game in those stats..

look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPQkmD6RpF8

pretty epic stuff with the game winner...

Wade afterwards (paraphrasing): "I could have played it better, come over sooner to help" but the clutch gawd moved to quick :cheers: :applause:

[feyki]

Goat clutch finals :applause: :applause:

[tpols]

This is more about Dirk taking Wade's lunch cookies in the clutch, running a train over the Heat when it mattered...

Highest 4th Qtr PPG Average since 1995 (10+):

1997 Michael Jordan: 10.7 PPG
1998 Michael Jordan: 10.6 PPG
2000 Shaquille O'Neal: 11.4 PPG
2011 Dirk Nowitzki: 10.4 PPG

^ thats what IM paying my respect for :applause:

Those 41% shooting? Eh, of course that will look like shit when theres a 6-19 flu game in those stats..

look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPQkmD6RpF8

pretty epic stuff with the game winner...

Wade afterwards (paraphrasing): "I could have played it better, come over sooner to help" but the clutch gawd moved to quick :cheers: :applause:

Wade basically wasnt making his FTs, was nowhere to be found in crunchtime, and was a second fiddle playing off Lebron James, while Dirk was clear cut number one option having the book thrown at him by one of the greatest trapping defenses ever.. these dumbos dont look at context of the environments with which these numbers were achieved. swish with some cringeworthy shit in here as well. :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

https://i.gyazo.com/b4df8c238333c9c6b171d8ae694c00eb.png
https://i.gyazo.com/8147dd9d1591779bc72ce677d9132641.png







102 degree fever and still bossed them in the clutch w/ 10 4th quarter points and a win from down 8 in the 4th.... how are we worthy?

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade basically wasnt making his FTs, was nowhere to be found in crunchtime, and was a second fiddle playing off Lebron James, while Dirk was clear cut number one option having the book thrown at him by one of the greatest trapping defenses ever.. these dumbos dont look at context of the environments with which these numbers were achieved. swish with some cringeworthy shit in here as well. :facepalm


bruhh... an alpha german got these dudes shook....

its just raw stats for them right now... especially funny coming from swish who usually loves himself some clutch motherfkckers... contradictions galore :lol meanwhile Wade was shitting it up when it was time to close game 2...

and Dirk scored 9 straight pts in the final 2 mins to get the road win :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk '11 in general though

[QUOTE](Player Impact Estimate) - Shows what % of a game

[Mr Feeny]

bruhh... an alpha german got these dudes shook....

its just raw stats for them right now... especially funny coming from swish who usually loves himself some clutch motherfkckers... contradictions galore :lol meanwhile Wade was shitting it up when it was time to close game 2...

and Dirk scored 9 straight pts in the final 2 mins to get the road win :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:when lebron dominates an entire game and gets a 30 point triple double only to miss a few shots down the stretch, you would rightly say he had a great game otherwise the heat wouldn't have been in a position to come back in the 2013 finals game 6.

Leaving 40 minutes of the game out of it and looking purely at the last 8 is what Kobe fanboys do when it suits them. He could shoot 2-20 when shooting even a decent percentage would have put the the game out of reach going into the 4th, and then after hitting 3 or 4 shots in a row, we hear Kobe fanboys yap about how "clutch" Kobe is. How this separates him from lebron.

Look at the totality of the game as we always have done. As we do with lebron. One player averaged 56%fg in the 2011 finals INCLUDING clutch time. The other averaged 41% including clutch time.

This isn't much of an argument. It's what a Kobe fanboy does. There's a reason they're still convicted he's a top 10 player all time when the guy is a 40% finals scorer.

[ArbitraryWater]

Goat clutch finals :applause: :applause:

His combination of 4th quarter ppg and 4th quarter TS% is unrivaled.... godly stuff.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dirk isn't clutch. 2006 and especially 2007 1st round negate anything from 2011. He shot well and his new roster hid every single one of his flaws as an individual player. I like clutch players that are well rounded. Dimensional guys with out a litany of weaknesses.

[feyki]

Dirk isn't clutch. 2006 and especially 2007 1st round negate anything from 2011. He shot well and his new roster hid every single one of his flaws as an individual player. I like clutch players that are well rounded. Dimensional guys with out a litany of weaknesses.

This dude is totally pathetic :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Dirk isn't clutch. 2006 and especially 2007 1st round negate anything from 2011. He shot well and his new roster hid every single one of his flaws as an individual player. I like clutch players that are well rounded. Dimensional guys with out a litany of weaknesses.

Yet he's been one of the best clutch players however you want to define for nearly his whole career.

He's one of the best elimination game players ever, he's great in the playoffs, he's great in crunch time, he's great in game winning situations, and his team from like 05 through 11 had the best record in close games out of any team during that stretch.

In his lone title run...he had the best clutch playoff run since early 90's Jordan.

How else do you define clutch?

I see now that you are just a troll. Won't respond until you say something of substance backed up with evidence or at least a good argument.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk isn't clutch. 2006 and especially 2007 1st round negate anything from 2011. He shot well and his new roster hid every single one of his flaws as an individual player. I like clutch players that are well rounded. Dimensional guys with out a litany of weaknesses.

ouch































when your mother drops your head on the kitchen counter as a baby

[ArbitraryWater]

Im actually a bit surprised... I dont ever remember Swish's panties being in THIS much of a twist....

I know he was always a bit hurt around the cheeks when it came to Dirk, but I do remember him crediting him for his clutchness once, no?

[DMAVS41]

That's what we're discussing. The finals. It isn't a discussion. Wade was much better while dirk was sub-par. That was the difference between the 2 teams.

Sub-par?

Ugh...that is pretty high expectations.

26/10/2 54% TS while being the main focus of the other team and coming through hugely in a couple arguably season saving clutch situations...while having a legit flu/terribly sick game...I don't know man...seems harsh.

I agree Wade was better and agree it wasn't Dirk's best by any means, but he was not sub-par....unless the standard is MJ.

[tpols]

swish with the nail in his coffin. :oldlol:

"Dirk isnt clutch"

:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Dirk isn't clutch. 2006 and especially 2007 1st round negate anything from 2011. He shot well and his new roster hid every single one of his flaws as an individual player. I like clutch players that are well rounded. Dimensional guys with out a litany of weaknesses.

Damn, b.

Going off the deep end with posts like this. You're probably just trying to antagonize the Dirk lot, though. :oldlol: