LeBron's 2016 Finals versus Jordan's 1993 finals

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

We all know the stats, have seen the games, highlights and whatnot...

So which would you say was more impressive given the context?

Personally I think LeBron's might have more historical significance (first title in Cleveland while beating a 73-win team), whereas Jordan had the statistical edge, ie. the legendary 55 point game (and obviously 3-peated).

:confusedshrug:

[feyki]

I prefer , 16 Finals over any finals of Jordan ; beside of 91.

[Ben Simmons]

73 win team. Down 3-1. Against the UMVP who was really about to take Lebron's place.

[Mr Feeny]

I think Lebron's was better if you apply context. Leading his team from 3-1 down against a 73 win team while leading both teams in every single statistical measure is crazy.

Jordan
41 ppg, 9 rpg, 6 apg on 51%fg

Lebron
30 ppg, 11 rpg, 9 apg on 49%fg

Both were incredible. But Lebron's achievement was greater, I think.

[Carbine]

Jordan did 41/8.5/6.3 on 56 TS% incredible scoring production.

He almost doubled the second leading scorers scoring production.

Every game was decided by 10 points or less as well.

[Bigsmoke]

Jordan

[livinglegend]

After seeing Phoenix's defense in that series, Lebron wins it easily.

[Micku]

LeBron is more impressive in terms of context. Warriors had 73 wins. Iggy and Green great defenders. Curry was the unanimous MVP. And no team in the finals came back from a 1-3 deficit. LBJ played amazing for about 3 games in a row to get his team back in it. LBJ also lead everyone in both teams in every single category. That's amazing. At the best of my knowledge, I think Bird was the closest to achieve that, but on his own team. Wilt I imagine did that tho.


MJ was amazing too. The Suns were a great team (not as impressive as the Warriors tho), Barkley was in his MVP year. They couldn't guard MJ. They gave him multiple defenders from Kevin Johnson to Dan Majerle, who was a solid defender. MJ holds the record for the most ppg ever in the finals too.

In both series, their teams were the underdog and both faced MVPs of that season. But LBJ more so. Nobody really expected them to win and the performance that we got.

In terms of stats only, then MJ. You rarely see 40 ppg period, let alone on that efficient shooting, and MJ did 41. The closest player to do this on this efficient shooting was Shaq in 2000 with 38 ppg on 61% shooting. If you want to go back to the 60s, then Elign Baylor and Rick Barry with 40.6 ppg and 40.8 respectively. Correct me if I'm wrong. Plus, MJ could've had more points if he would've made his FTs. He was off that series.

But if you put in the context, LeBron. I think it means more. While MJ would be on the record books in terms of ppg, LBJ did lead both teams in every statistic category, beat a 73 win team, completely outplayed the first unanimous MVP, came back from from a 1-3 deficit, and brought the first title to Cleveland in a very long time, beat Warriors in game 7 on the road, and the first ever in the NBA. The context of this is more significant.

[Doranku]

It's very close, but you have to give the edge to LeBron. As others have said, just much more historical significance. Bringing a city it's first championship in over half a century, becoming the first team ever in the finals to overcome a 3-1 deficit, dethroning the defending champions who just won an NBA record 73 games, making the UMVP look like a joke, leading both teams in every major statistical category...

I mean the list goes on and on. Have to go with LeBron on this one.

[NBAGOAT]

looking at just the context, Lebron's is most likely moreimpressive. Faced a stronger team especially on defense and won 2 games on the road coming back from 3-1. Ofc some other context is he's part of the reason they fell 3-1. I still lean Jordan overall however, his stats are better and he had fewer mediocre games.

[ArbitraryWater]

Given the Phoenix defense, its easily LeBron for me...

'91 finals is more interesting.

But what LeBron did...




-No team had ever come back from down 1-3 in the NBA finals (LeBron did it the hard way, 2/3 road games!)

-Only two teams had forced a game 7 after down 1-3 in the NBA finals (1951 Knicks, 1966 Lakers), and no team since after the first 17 years of the league's existance.

-Home teams were 15-3 in NBA Finals Game 7's / Road teams were 3-15 in NBA Finals Game 7's

-Played highest/#1 record team in NBA history, 73-win Warriors

-Warriors didn't lose 3 straight games since 2013

-Warriors lost back-to-back games ONCE the season (regular season and playoffs)

-Warriors weren't beaten back to back at home the last two seasons.

-Away Game at the loudest Arena in the NBA.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Both historical victories and in my top five finals performances.

Pure numbers and performance, MJ. First 3 peat since Russell Celtics. Barkley was considered MVP. Bulls were under dogs in two straight series vs Knicks and Suns. Both won 60 or more games. And the Bulls led by Jordan beat the best defensive and offensive team. But Phoenix wasn't a great defense and Thunder Dan, KJ, and Dumas flat out couldn't guard Mike. Even though Chicago needed all 41 ppg from MJ to be competitive. Amazing efficiency too.

Context included? I go with LeBron.

73 win team. "Unanimous" and back to back MVP. Down 3-1. First Cleveland championship in multiple decades. Won it for his hometown. Put up major numbers being guarded by quality man defenders in Iggy, Green and Barnes. Quality team defense. Led both teams in every statistical category.

Just, wow. For awhile, even coming back from 3-1 to Choklahoma who made them look mortal for a second, GSW in this year's NBA felt near unbeatable.

LeBron with sidekick Kyrie took a piss on all of it. Both guarded by quality defenders. Loved it.

[Micku]

Both historical victories and in my top five finals performances.

Pure numbers and performance, MJ. First 3 peat since Russell Celtics. Barkley was considered MVP. Bulls were under dogs in two straight series vs Knicks and Suns. Both won 60 or more games. And the Bulls led by Jordan beat the best defensive and offensive team. But Phoenix wasn't a great defense and Thunder Dan, KJ, and Dumas flat out couldn't guard Mike. Even though Chicago needed all 41 ppg from MJ to be competitive. Amazing efficiency too.

Context included? I go with LeBron.

73 win team. "Unanimous" and back to back MVP. Down 3-1. First Cleveland championship in multiple decades. Won it for his hometown. Put up major numbers being guarded by quality man defenders in Iggy, Green and Barnes. Quality team defense. Led both teams in every statistical category.

Just, wow. For awhile, even coming back from 3-1 to Choklahoma who made them look mortal for a second, GSW in this year's NBA felt near unbeatable.

LeBron with sidekick Kyrie took a piss on all of it. Both guarded by quality defenders. Loved it.

That's the series where it made me realize that Curry was a bit overrated. If he wasn't scoring, he wasn't doing anything really elite. And it's not like he is like KD, who tend to his point averages no matter what. I expected Curry to excel in playmaking more, and to run the offense better, but it didn't happen. I didn't think he was the best player in the series, but he had the best team.

And the Warriors did look beatable there. I was thinking about all of the teams in history that could give them mismatches. They honestly had trouble with Steven Adams out there. And the second chance points was killer.

I thought the Thunder were better than the Cavs this year. The Thunder surprising had beat the Spurs team, and played some good defense against the Warriors. And I figured if the Thunder couldn't do it, then the Cavs wouldn't be able to. Boy, I was wrong.

And probably the main reason why they had trouble with the Thunder and lost to the Cavs is because Curry underperformed, especially compared to his regular season numbers. To me, it simultaneously showed how good his team was and how underwhelming Curry performance was in the playoffs. You can argue that the dude was the third best player for two series in a row.

[K Xerxes]

Recovering from 3-1 down romanticises the story but ignores that they were down 3-1 in the first place in part due to LeBron under performing. I thought we were comparing the entire series, not just the last 3 games.

MJ was the better player and performed better in these two respective finals.

[warriorfan]

MJ didn't have to get the comish to suspend the other team's best defensive player

[SexSymbol]

Jordan, he didn't have a bad game in that series and LeBron had 3-4

[Mr Feeny]

Recovering from 3-1 down romanticises the story but ignores that they were down 3-1 in the first place in part due to LeBron under performing. I thought we were comparing the entire series, not just the last 3 games.

MJ was the better player and performed better in these two respective finals.

That's harsh and a little insane. They were down 3-1 because Golden State are a 73-9 team that proved that they were the best team in basketball for the previous 7 months. Then lebron turned on god-mode and the rest is history.

For the entire series, he just about averaged a triple double. He led both teams in all statistical categories. How do we NOT give the guy credit for that?

[Mr Feeny]

Jordan, he didn't have a bad game in that series and LeBron had 3-4

The 2 best perimeter players ever, Jordan and Lebron :applause:

[SexSymbol]

That's harsh and a little insane. They were down 3-1 because Golden State are a 73-9 team that proved that they were the best team in basketball for the previous 7 months. Then lebron turned on god-mode and the rest is history.

For the entire series, he just about averaged a triple double. He led both teams in all statistical categories. How do we NOT give the guy credit for that?
So why did they win in G7 if LeBron wasn't playing god mode? I mean he was absolutely horrific for 3 quarters

[SexSymbol]

The 2 best perimeter players ever, Jordan and Lebron :applause:
Magic, Kobe, Erving
Some people put Oscar in that category as well.

[Mr Feeny]

Magic, Kobe, Erving
Some people put Oscar in that category as well.

None of those are better than Lebron or Jordan.
And Kobe certainly isn't in the conversation as Magic.
There's a reason lebron, Magic and Jordan are top 5 players while Kobe isn't top 12.

[Mr Feeny]

So why did they win in G7 if LeBron wasn't playing god mode? I mean he was absolutely horrific for 3 quarters

No. Horrific is 6-24 and minimal playmaking.
27, 11 and 11 with 3 steals and 3 blocks while being the best defensive player on the court is sensational. So is scoring 11 4th quarter points *only 2 less than the entire warriors team.

Ofcourse a Kobe fan wouldn't know anything about excelling in the finals. He's a career 40% scorer in the finals for a reason :lol

[SexSymbol]

No. Horrific is 6-24 and minimal playmaking.
27, 11 and 11 with 3 steals and 3 blocks while being the best defensive player on the court is sensational. So is scoring 11 4th quarter points *only 2 less than the entire warriors team.

Ofcourse a Kobe fan wouldn't know anything about excelling in the finals. He's a career 40% scorer in the finals for a reason :lol
Draymond Green was 11-15 while being mostly left open by lebron. He was probably the worst defensive player on the floor aside from that GOAT block on Iguodala, he did nothing defensively that mattered at all.
Kobe was actually good on defense in his G7 and took down 15 rebounds which were massive.
Watch the game again, he was absolutely horrible throughout the first 3 quarters while Kyrie was keeping them in the game, even everybody in the gamethread agreed with me on this at the time, look it up.

[SexSymbol]

None of those are better than Lebron or Jordan.
And Kobe certainly isn't in the conversation as Magic.
There's a reason lebron, Magic and Jordan are top 5 players while Kobe isn't top 12.
Sure, that's your opinion, but it's really laughable to say that either Kobe or LeBron or Irving are not arguably better than LeBron.
Most of those players are in the same boat with Jordan being much higher

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's harsh and a little insane. They were down 3-1 because Golden State are a 73-9 team that proved that they were the best team in basketball for the previous 7 months. Then lebron turned on god-mode and the rest is history.

For the entire series, he just about averaged a triple double. He led both teams in all statistical categories. How do we NOT give the guy credit for that?

Totally agree. :applause:

Its not "just" about the last 3 games (though they mean A LOT). Look at the production he accumulated throughout the course of the series. Seriously when is the last time you've seen someone dominate EVERYBODY on both teams and in ALL major statistical categories? I would imagine it had to be LeBron because he's the only guy in history with as unique of a skillset.

The fact he did it against a team who were absolute driver-seat FAVORITES just about says it all, though.

[Da_Realist]

More significant = 2016 Lebron. He led his team back from a 3-1 series deficit against a team that won 73 games in the regular season. Almost single-handedly humbled a team that mocked everyone all season and danced on the on the sidelines after every made three point shot. Also made GSW eat crow after they questioned his manhood openly after Game 4. Also need to mention how significant it was that he punked the unanimous MVP when everything was on the line.

Better basketball = 1993 MJ. Always good to see a master technician at work. His offensive skillset shined throughout this series and actually showed what he would be capable of if teams didn't hold and grab him. Took what the defense gave him and scored all over the floor. Made it look too easy. The game after a heartbreaking 3OT home loss, he scored 55 points on a blistering 57%. And this may not have even been his most impressive game. Game 2, where he outlasted a 42 point, 13 reb effort by Barkley with an almost 42 point triple double might be a bit more impressive. Especially considering the Bulls were already up 1-0 and was playing on the road. He did not have an "off" switch and his skill level was ridiculous.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Recovering from 3-1 down romanticises the story but ignores that they were down 3-1 in the first place in part due to LeBron under performing. I thought we were comparing the entire series, not just the last 3 games.


Seriously. :oldlol: Also, Lebron's 11 rpg are more like 8-9 rpg because the manjority of his boards are completely wide open. He's not out there battling for rebounds or anything the majority of the time. So in my mind, it's more like 30/9/6/49% vs. 41/9/6/51%. Not that close imo, and that's ignoring that Jordan was more consistent throughout the series. If you want to just look at each of their best 3-4 games in these series, that's different.

[Dray n Klay]

Seriously. :oldlol: Also, Lebron's 11 rpg are more like 8-9 rpg because the manjority of his boards are completely wide open. He's not out there battling for rebounds or anything the majority of the time. So in my mind, it's more like 30/9/6/49% vs. 41/9/6/51%. Not that close imo, and that's ignoring that Jordan was more consistent throughout the series. If you want to just look at each of their best 3-4 games in these series, that's different.

Damn you're a dumbass :oldlol:


I've never seen so much fail in one post :banana:



Where did you get 30/9/6 for lebron? He averaged 30/11/9









Btw 30 ppg against the GOAT defense Warriors is easily worth 40-45 ppg vs those Suns. Don't kid yourself fool

[plowking]

lol at people saying the Bulls weren't favourites against the Suns.

[Prometheus]

Seriously. :oldlol: Also, Lebron's 11 rpg are more like 8-9 rpg because the manjority of his boards are completely wide open. He's not out there battling for rebounds or anything the majority of the time. So in my mind, it's more like 30/9/6/49% vs. 41/9/6/51%. Not that close imo, and that's ignoring that Jordan was more consistent throughout the series. If you want to just look at each of their best 3-4 games in these series, that's different.

This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever read. "In my mind, his stats are this" lmao so embarrassing. You should feel bad.

[Dray n Klay]

Its simple


LeBron was:

The best scorer on the court

The best playmaker on the court

The best rebounder on the court

The best defender on the court





Jordan was:


The best scorer on the court





...


and


thats it

:confusedshrug:

















Its LeBron and its not even close :banana:

[Prometheus]

LeBron's performance is more significant because of the context.

For sheer basketball prowess, it's closer than people are saying. Jordan was the ultimate weapon as a scorer, but LeBron scored his points while also dominating the ball and running his team's offense as the de facto point guard. It was also one of the best defensive performances in NBA history by a single player. Say what you want about his play on that end of the floor in the last few regular seasons, but dude proved his greatness on defense in these Finals. Monster plays.

[Poetry]

Btw 30 ppg against the GOAT defense Warriors is easily worth 40-45 ppg vs those Suns. Don't kid yourself fool

Golden State's defensive rating was 103.8. I wouldn't call that the GOAT defense. Look at how easily Kyrie scored.

If LeBron had more than two offensive moves in his arsenal, he might not struggle so much. But when you can't make a simple jump shot in basketball, any defense will be a challenge.

[AintNoSunshine]

Magic, Kobe, Erving
Some people put Oscar in that category as well.
LOL this nikka trying to low key sneak Kobe in there:oldlol:

Put Kobe next to Iverson, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce. Not Lebron top3 James.

[Dray n Klay]

. But when you can't make a simple jump shot in basketball, any defense will be a challenge.


It didnt hurt Jordan, dude went an entire career without a jumpshot.



And none of those 90's defenses were exactly 'challenging'

[Poetry]

It didnt hurt Jordan, dude went an entire career without a jumpshot.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/mutumbo.gif

[Dray n Klay]

:facepalm

Look at SG's in the NBA today, all of them are better 3 point shooters than MJ



If MJ played in the league today, he would easily be the worst 3 point shooter at his position.

[SamuraiSWISH]

lol at people saying the Bulls weren't favourites against the Suns.
They weren't. Underdogs in both the Knicks and Suns series. People thought they were burnt out. As evident by Pippen's play in the regular season and a 57 - 25 record. Compared to 67 wins the year before.

Not to mention NO ONE had three peated in the modern era yet.

Stop acting like you were watching during this time, as a child, in Australia of all places. Probably weren't even airing the games there. You folks were more interested in the boomerang toss than the NBA Finals.

:facepalm

[JebronLames]

It didnt hurt Jordan, dude went an entire career without a jumpshot.



And none of those 90's defenses were exactly 'challenging'
People always forget to account for eras

LeBron would average 36/10/12 in the 90's

[Poetry]

Look at SG's in the NBA today, all of them are better 3 point shooters than MJ



If MJ played in the league today, he would easily be the worst 3 point shooter at his position.

Those 3 pointers sure didn't help Steph and Klay.

The most effective shooters out there were Kyrie and Livingston. And they were mostly taking midrange shots.

[jstern]

It didnt hurt Jordan, dude went an entire career without a jumpshot.



And none of those 90's defenses were exactly 'challenging'
:biggums:

[Poetry]

People always forget to account for eras

LeBron would average 36/10/12 in the 90's

Pace was 95.8 this year, the highest since 1992-93 :confusedshrug: Why didn't LeBron average that triple-double?

[Dray n Klay]

Pace was 95.8 this year, the highest since 1992-93 :confusedshrug: Why didn't LeBron average that triple-double?

Its not just pace dumbass




No zone defense

No Weak side help defenders

No trapping defenses










I've seen YMCA scrimmages with more sophisticated defensive schemes than 90's basketball :oldlol:

[Poetry]

No zone defense

The NBA plays man 99% of the time.

[jstern]

I think Lebron is top 5, and definitely had the most memorable Finals. And will probably go down as my favorite Finals of all time. But sometimes incredible feats, such as Lebron coming back 3-1, and even Golden State winning 73 games come with flaws from the competition, else they wouldn

[SamuraiSWISH]

Game 7 could have gone either way, with a made shot here, or a miss shot there, or Curry simply playing like an All Star. But what I find most amazing about Jordan’s Finals career is that he never allowed his team to be in such a position.
Very true. MJ didn't let it get to the point of desperation. He stepped on dudes throats.

Curry was on effing ghost mode. SMH @ all that hype this year. My Dookie boy Kyrie took a steaming dump on that unanimous MVP fraud all series. I mean really. Had him on skates and jumper was visine in his face all series. Including the game 7 clinching shot.

They had Klay dedicated to him from game 3 on. Meanwhile Kyrie played adequate defense on Steph, limiting him. Bye Ayesha.

:oldlol:

[diamenz]

Those 3 pointers sure didn't help Steph and Klay.

The most effective shooters out there were Kyrie and Livingston. And they were mostly taking midrange shots.

exactly. apparently the term jumpshot only means "3 pointer" today. you kids live and die by the ****ing three.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Bye Ayesha.

:oldlol:
:lol :lol

[bond10]

It didnt hurt Jordan, dude went an entire career without a jumpshot.



And none of those 90's defenses were exactly 'challenging'


http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/155/834/plz-stop-post.jpg

[Micku]

Btw 30 ppg against the GOAT defense Warriors is easily worth 40-45 ppg vs those Suns. Don't kid yourself fool

Spurs were better defensively in the regular season. The Warriors were among the top 5 statistically. They also weren't the best in the playoffs either.


The NBA plays man 99% of the time.

It's true that the NBA today plays man and not a true zone, but the introduction of zone rules causes you to sag off your man and roam around. This also cause for more double teams without the refs calling for illegal defense. The help defense in this regard is better.

[andgar923]

More significant = 2016 Lebron. He led his team back from a 3-1 series deficit against a team that won 73 games in the regular season. Almost single-handedly humbled a team that mocked everyone all season and danced on the on the sidelines after every made three point shot. Also made GSW eat crow after they questioned his manhood openly after Game 4. Also need to mention how significant it was that he punked the unanimous MVP when everything was on the line.

Better basketball = 1993 MJ. Always good to see a master technician at work. His offensive skillset shined throughout this series and actually showed what he would be capable of if teams didn't hold and grab him. Took what the defense gave him and scored all over the floor. Made it look too easy. The game after a heartbreaking 3OT home loss, he scored 55 points on a blistering 57%. And this may not have even been his most impressive game. Game 2, where he outlasted a 42 point, 13 reb effort by Barkley with an almost 42 point triple double might be a bit more impressive. Especially considering the Bulls were already up 1-0 and was playing on the road. He did not have an "off" switch and his skill level was ridiculous.

This

[Da_Realist]

MJ could beat you in different ways. In the 93 Finals, he had a near 42 point triple double one game and scored 55 on 57% in another. Its not always the same general statline. Against the Knicks, he scored 54 on 60% in Game 4 and had a masterful 29 point trible double in Game 5. You can find elements of this in most of his playoff series. And he didn't mind winning ugly (see 1998 ECF Game 7 where he won by driving to the hoop amd forcing the Pacers to foul him. He essentially won the game at the foul line). Defend him one way, he'd beat you another way. Expect one thing, he'd do something different. You had to defend against the scoring outburst but you also had to keep in mind he was a well rounded player with no weaknesses who could beat you in a different way. There was truly no way to prepare for him.

[Round Mound]

Jordan scoring wise. Lebron everything else wise.

[TheCorporation]

Recovering from 3-1 down romanticises the story but ignores that they were down 3-1 in the first place in part due to LeBron under performing. I thought we were comparing the entire series, not just the last 3 games.

MJ was the better player and performed better in these two respective finals.

Are you accounting for level of competition???

[HighFlyer23]

Seriously. :oldlol: Also, Lebron's 11 rpg are more like 8-9 rpg because the manjority of his boards are completely wide open. He's not out there battling for rebounds or anything the majority of the time. So in my mind, it's more like 30/9/6/49% vs. 41/9/6/51%. Not that close imo, and that's ignoring that Jordan was more consistent throughout the series. If you want to just look at each of their best 3-4 games in these series, that's different.

You are reaching now

Feeling the heat as a Jordan fan after Lebron pulled off this historic accomplishment?

[Lebron23]

LeBron beat a 73 win.

[sportjames23]

MJ capped off a three-peat, the first in almost 30 years, with the highest scoring average in NBA Finals history, winning Finals MVP.

This comparison is not even close. MJ got this hands down.

[TheCorporation]

MJ capped off a three-peat, the first in almost 30 years, with the highest scoring average in NBA Finals history, winning Finals MVP.

This comparison is not even close. MJ got this hands down.

You're done, remember?

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[Baller789]

You're done, remember?

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

Hello GOATiTS.

[1987_Lakers]

You're done, remember?

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

:oldlol: