Nigel Farage, UKIP leader, resigns from his position. [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

IcanzIIravor

07-04-2016, 07:50 AM

He fulfilled his lifelong mission of getting the UK out of the EU. He never wanted to be a career politician.

Also, he is not a leader for times of peace. He is too abrasive and doesn't play the political game.

It is good for the UK that this guy did not submit himself to be PM. It is also better for his party if someone more moderate steps in to power. Farage can always make a triumphant return to politics in a few years if he feels like it.

I think it is a mistake to leave before the article is actually even invoked. You're basically leaving the job still in the design phase. You're just leaving the development stage, haven't even starting testing, let alone deploying into production and yet you've basically declared victory and you're heading home to celebrate winning the championship. Just seems like there was no strategy for the Brexit people if they actually won, so now we see this crazed scramble.

step_back

07-04-2016, 07:52 AM

IcanzIIravor

07-04-2016, 08:16 AM

He talked about lobbying the Germans and French because they have general elections next year and he's wants the U.K to get the best possible deal in place.

I really wonder how he'll be viewed in history. Love him or hate him one thing is for certain, he's an absolute maverick.

I think it really comes down to if they actually follow through on the EU exit. If the UK comes out of it with favourable trade deals and by some miracle their is a surge in jobs for citizens as seems to have been the rosy picture painted, cash flowing into the health system and Scotland/Ireland remain then he will go down very favourably. If somehow it leads to the breakup of the UK then probably not so much.

Dresta

07-04-2016, 09:08 AM

Dresta

07-04-2016, 09:16 AM

I think it really comes down to if they actually follow through on the EU exit. If the UK comes out of it with favourable trade deals and by some miracle their is a surge in jobs for citizens as seems to have been the rosy picture painted, cash flowing into the health system and Scotland/Ireland remain then he will go down very favourably. If somehow it leads to the breakup of the UK then probably not so much.
The UK was already breaking up: it is implicit in the agreement (capitulation) over Northern Ireland that reunification will happen at some point; this was forced through by the pressure of American politicians, who once again show that they support terrorists when they're undermining other countries, even their allies. And Scotland, well, Scottish nationalism had a revival after entry into Europe--if anything, it will have been the European Union that broke up the UK, just like they accelerated the break-up of Yugoslavia.

The UK committed suicide when it first joined the EEC, because you can't maintain one United Kingdom, while being a part of another, giant supranational state (it makes the earlier unification compromise superfluous); that is why you are seeing separatist movements all over Europe. Far from ridding the world of nationalism, the EU has helped flame nationalist movements all over Europe.

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 03:22 PM

He fulfilled his lifelong mission of getting the UK out of the EU. He never wanted to be a career politician.

Also, he is not a leader for times of peace. He is too abrasive and doesn't play the political game.

It is good for the UK that this guy did not submit himself to be PM. It is also better for his party if someone more moderate steps in to power. Farage can always make a triumphant return to politics in a few years if he feels like it.

You mean once the smoke has cleared and he's distanced himself enough from the incoming shit show. Same with Boris the blade. These fools have some stones on them, I'll give them that. :applause:

Also, weren't you the one who kept trying to equate this Brexit nonsense with the American Revolution? Tell us, on this the 4th of July... Did John Hancock and George Washington run away after signing Declaration of Independence and sat out the Revolution?

From:

http://static.latercera.com/20160623/2307465.jpg

To:

http://www.hilariousgifs.com/i/tZOS8.gif

In like a week. :oldlol:

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 03:34 PM

Farage is not a peace time consigliere.

Strong-willed and divisive enough to get the job done in times of need, too divisive and unpolitical for times of peace.

He is a bit like Churchill in that respect.

Respect to this guy for stepping out of the limelight. He was always speaking out against career politicians from the beginning, and nearly wound up becoming one. The stage was set for him to step in to power, and he stepped away.

Thank you for all you've done to help bring down the tyrannical EU, Mr. Farage. Your work will never be forgotten.

DonDadda, why do you love the EU so much? Are you a fan of Greek, Italian and Spanish workers suffering and living lives of poverty? Is that what you're all about dawg? Why are you cheerleading the suffering and impoverishment of people from Mediterranean nations?

Also, weren't you the one who kept trying to equate this Brexit nonsense with the American Revolution? Tell us, on this the 4th of July... Did John Hancock and George Washington run away after signing Declaration of Independence and sat out the Revolution?

Yes, the American Revolution metaphor is a fitting comparison, thanks for bringing that point up Don! Many of our Founding Fathers also did not want to step in to power, even though they had popular support. Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton are two examples of Great Americans who helped bring about the revolution and then stepped out of the political leadership spotlight after it was successful. John Hancock is another great example. After helping to ratify the US constitution in his home state, he too stepped out of power and back in to smaller roles in Congress.

Nigel Farage is Thomas Paine in this case. He lit the match, ignited the fire and burned down the tyrannical establishment. After that, he served his purpose. You don't want a Thomas Paine type in charge.

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 03:42 PM

Farage is not a peace time consigliere.

Strong-willed and divisive enough to get the job done in times of need, too divisive and unpolitical for times of peace.

He is a bit like Churchill in that respect.

Respect to this guy for stepping out of the limelight. He was always speaking out against career politicians from the beginning, and nearly wound up becoming one. The stage was set for him to step in to power, and he stepped away.

Thank you for all you've done to help bring down the tyrannical EU, Mr. Farage. Your work will never be forgotten.

DonDadda, why do you love the EU so much? Are you a fan of Greek, Italian and Spanish workers suffering and living lives of poverty? Is that what you're all about dawg? Why are you cheerleading the suffering and impoverishment of people from Mediterranean nations?

Yes, the American Revolution metaphor is a fitting comparison, thanks for bringing that point up Don! Many of our Founding Fathers also did not want to step in to power, even though they had popular support. Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton are two examples of Great Americans who helped bring about the revolution and then stepped out of the political leadership spotlight after it was successful.

Nigel Farage is Thomas Paine in this case. He lit the match, ignited the fire and burned down the tyrannical establishment. After that, he served his purpose. You don't want a Thomas Paine type in charge.

In one post you likened Farage to Winston Churchill, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, and Alexander Hamilton.

The man's legend continues to grow as he watches the train wreck from his couch, eating frosted flakes in his tighty whities.

Legend status. :applause:

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 03:47 PM

In one post you likened Farage to Winston Churchill, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, and Alexander Hamilton.

The man's legend continues to grow as he watches the train wreck from his couch, eating frosted flakes in his tighty whities.

Legend status. :applause:
Farage was the first man to lead his country out of the tyrannical grasp of the EU. He certainly is the most influential UK politician since Margaret Thatcher.

The work he did was definitely akin to the work Thomas Paine did helping to overthrow tyranny and connecting with and igniting the spark that set the common people in both the USA and France down the path of revolution.

Churchill was spectacular during WWII and struggled as a PM when the war was ended. Just like Farage, if he didn't have a cause to unite the people behind him, he was not an effective leader.

Yes, my comparisons are apt and I stand by them. Is Farage as historically significant as the men I compared him to? Probably not. We'll have to see how the unraveling of the EU goes down before we can fully judge him from a historical context.

People used to mock George Washington back in the day as well. You would probably be protesting at his inauguration XD

There is no room for blasphemy in America, breh.

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 03:50 PM

Farage was the first man to lead his country out of the tyrannical grasp of the EU. He certainly is the most influential UK politician since Margaret Thatcher.

The work he did was definitely akin to the work Thomas Paine did helping to overthrow tyranny and connecting with and igniting the spark that set the common people in both the USA and France down the path of revolution.

Churchill was spectacular during WWII and struggled as a PM when the war was ended. Just like Farage, if he didn't have a cause to unite the people behind him, he was not an effective leader.

Yes, my comparisons are apt and I stand by them. Is Farage as historically significant as the men I compared him to? Probably not. We'll have to see how the unraveling of the EU goes down before we can fully judge him from a historical context.

People used to mock George Washington back in the day as well. You would probably be protesting at his inauguration XD

There is no room for blasphemy in America, breh.

Dat childlike imagination and na

Dresta

07-04-2016, 03:57 PM

You mean once the smoke has cleared and he's distanced himself enough from the incoming shit show. Same with Boris the blade. These fools have some stones on them, I'll give them that. :applause:

Also, weren't you the one who kept trying to equate this Brexit nonsense with the American Revolution? Tell us, on this the 4th of July... Did John Hancock and George Washington run away after signing Declaration of Independence and sat out the Revolution?

From:

http://static.latercera.com/20160623/2307465.jpg

To:

http://www.hilariousgifs.com/i/tZOS8.gif

In like a week. :oldlol:Who is "running away"? Seriously, what are you talking about?

Boris was pushed aside by Gove, and only just wrote this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 04:01 PM

Who is "running away"? Seriously, what are you talking about?

Boris was pushed aside by Gove, and only just wrote this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/

Delivers 5-point plan for Brexit only after running away. Confirms other Brexiters don't actually have a plan for Brexiting.

Dat childlike imagination and na

Dresta

07-04-2016, 04:20 PM

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Delivers 5-point plan for Brexit only after running away. Confirms other Brexiters don't actually have a plan for Brexiting.

Dat childlike imagination and na

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 04:27 PM

Stop pretending to know anything about UK politics. It's well known that Gove usurped Boris' bid for leadership in the UK.

Does the usurper have a 5-point plan of his own or is he just going to piggyback off Boris'? :confusedshrug:

The woman who is likely to win the con leadership contest is not a Brexiter. How can Article 50 be invoked when the people who want to Remain are still holding the levers of power, and are delaying as much as they can?

If you were a betting man, what would you say the odds of the Brexit actually going down are?

Get a damn clue, boy.

Ironic and mildly racist. :applause:

Brunch@Five

07-04-2016, 04:28 PM

How is this "jumping ship" you ignorant turd? Whether Farage is or is not leader of the fringe UKIP party doesn't have any effect on Brexit.

Grats on showing that you understand nothing about UK politics. As leader of UKIP Farage could have no part in any Brexit negotiations.

How do you conclude that it "doesn't have any effect on Brexit" when one of the most influential politicians in the UK is concluding his political career (while still insisting on collecting his paycheck as a member of the European parliament :rolleyes: ), who also happened to be one of the most controversial advocates of the Brexit :wtf:

There obviously is a difference between taking part in Brexit negotiations (with the EU) and shaping the national political climate and defining which political courses of action are actually feasible.

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 04:34 PM

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 04:38 PM

How do you conclude that it "doesn't have any effect on Brexit" when one of the most influential politicians in the UK is concluding his political career (while still insisting on collecting his paycheck as a member of the European parliament :rolleyes: ), who also happened to be one of the most controversial advocates of the Brexit :wtf:

There obviously is a difference between taking part in Brexit negotiations (with the EU) and shaping the national political climate and defining which political courses of action are actually feasible.
Farage was one of the most influential politicians in the UK but he wasn't and never will be a leader who can unite the country and become Prime Minister. Over 50% of the UK thinks he is a racist idiot, just as many British people were against super nationalistic Churchill back in the days of WWII.

There are peace time politicians and war time politicians. Some politicians are both. Farage is only a wartime politician. Without the his revolution and the EU to rally against, he has nothing to run on. He got in to politics with only one goal in mind and he accomplished his goal. Dude's got nothing to go on now.

If he had any ambition of becoming PM, he would never have acted so abrasive and he would have played the political kiss-ass game better. But he had to be abrasive in order to achieve his goal.

Not every politician was destined to be, or had ambition to be the head honcho. Nigel Farage is an idealist. Disagree with his ideas or not, that's all he is, and idealists generally do not make great leaders.

Brunch@Five

07-04-2016, 04:39 PM

Farage was one of the most influential politicians in the UK but he wasn't and never will be a leader who can unite the country and become Prime Minister. Over 50% of the UK thinks he is a racist idiot, just as many British people were against super nationalistic Churchill back in the days of WWII.

There are peace time politicians and war time politicians. Some politicians are both. Farage is only a wartime politician. Without the his revolution and the EU to rally against, he has nothing to run on. He got in to politics with only one goal in mind and he accomplished his goal. Dude's got nothing to go on now.

If he had any ambition of becoming PM, he would never have acted so abrasive and he would have played the political kiss-ass game better. But he had to be abrasive in order to achieve his goal.

Not every politician was destined to be, or had ambition to be the head honcho. Nigel Farage is an idealist. Disagree with his ideas or not, that's all he is, and idealists generally do not make great leaders.

who here or anywhere else has actually proposed him as a potential prime minister? What are you talking about?

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 04:50 PM

who here or anywhere else has actually proposed him as a potential prime minister? What are you talking about?
many ignorant tards.

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 04:52 PM

Does anyone think that the American colonists 100% supported the Revolution against Great Britain?

Even after gaining independence, there were cowards like DonDadda who were begging on their knees to go back to the oppression of their Imperialist masters.

I love how you keep pushing the Revolution comparison when the Amerixit of 1861 is clearly the more apt one.

Remind everyone how great things turned out for the Confederacy when they left the American Union.

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 04:56 PM

Brunch@Five

07-04-2016, 05:02 PM

Boris Johnson is a talented and intelligent dude who rose through the ranks of academia and UK classism through talent and merit.

Why mock this guy? He's one of the few UK politicians with a combination of common sense and charisma. He's one of the few people who could do a good job as PM. Unfortunately, inner party politics screwed him. Gove is a Wormtongue/Littlefinger type and should be kept in the background. I don't know what the Tories are thinking :roll: :roll: :roll:

I think for Boris individual long-term perspective, this is going quite well. No matter what happens with Brexit now, I wouldn't expect the next PM to be in office for more than a couple of years anyways. There will be some ugly fights were no one will actually come out stronger in the end.
Being able to pose as a victim of political games and being stabbed in the back might actually come in handy for Boris when his time arrives...

Dresta

07-04-2016, 05:27 PM

How do you conclude that it "doesn't have any effect on Brexit" when one of the most influential politicians in the UK is concluding his political career (while still insisting on collecting his paycheck as a member of the European parliament :rolleyes: ), who also happened to be one of the most controversial advocates of the Brexit :wtf:

There obviously is a difference between taking part in Brexit negotiations (with the EU) and shaping the national political climate and defining which political courses of action are actually feasible.
Because it doesn't. What does it change exactly? Be specific.

The government clearly don't want him to be a part of the Brexit negotiations, and the man has spent decades campaigning for something that has finally come to fruition, and he probably doesn't want to take the constant flack and ire of large segments of the country for the rest of his life (the things said about Farage are ghastly, and if you said them about a female or minority politicians the police would be on your doorstep)--did you expect him to be party leader forever or something? UKIP has no real role to play now unless politicians renege on their promises and keep the country in the EU, and if they are going to survive they will need to appeal the many, many Labour voters who voted to Leave, which could not happen with Farage leading the party.

I love how you keep pushing the Revolution comparison when the Amerixit of 1861 is clearly the more apt one.

Remind everyone how great things turned out for the Confederacy when they left the American Union.
Utter gibberish. They aren't even remotely similar, and far less similar than the other analogy. Your ignorance is quite invincible.

Listen here, i'll explain it to you in simple terms: the United States was a nation, the European Union is not a nation, and is not even a Federation; it only has pretences to become a Federal Union. Go and read some books you thick-headed rube.

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 05:36 PM

Utter gibberish. They aren't even remotely similar, and far less similar than the other analogy. Your ignorance is quite invincible.

Who the hell says that? You're like a living cartoon character. :oldlol:

Listen here, i'll explain it to you in simple terms: the United States was a nation, the European Union is not a nation, and is not even a Federation; it only has pretences to become a Federal Union. Go and read some books you thick-headed rube.

But the EU is a monarchy and the UK a bunch of imperial colonies?

Stop it.

The Brexit is much closer to the Amerixit of 1861 than the American Revolution. 13 colonies rebelling against a monarchy thousands of miles across the Ocean vs States breaking away from a Continental Union of States.

Easy comparison. I win. You lose. Rinse and repeat.

9erempiree

07-04-2016, 05:39 PM

Stop pretending to know anything about UK politics. It's well known that Gove usurped Boris' bid for leadership in the UK. The woman who is likely to win the con leadership contest is not a Brexiter. How can Article 50 be invoked when the people who want to Remain are still holding the levers of power, and are delaying as much as they can?

Get a damn clue, boy.

He played a kindergarten teacher on television so he thinks he is a scholar.

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 05:41 PM

LOL if the government renegs on the Brexit and holds another referendum, UKIP will become the biggest party in the UK and Farage will come back :roll:

Not going through with the Brexit is the worst possible thing Labour and the Tories can do long term.

9erempiree

07-04-2016, 05:42 PM

DonDadda, why do you love the EU so much? Are you a fan of Greek, Italian and Spanish workers suffering and living lives of poverty? Is that what you're all about dawg? Why are you cheerleading the suffering and impoverishment of people from Mediterranean nations?

He has slave DNA in him.

Most Dems do and they will bend over backwards for their leaders (masters) just like the filthy globalists.

9erempiree

07-04-2016, 05:44 PM

I wonder which country is next.

I feel France may be the next to leave.

DonDadda59

07-04-2016, 05:46 PM

He has warrior DNA in him.

Fixed.

My people were fighting against tyrants when yours were bowing to those same kings. Drinking tea and eating crumpets n shit.

And thank you for being #1 in my fan club. I appreciate every fan but you go out of your way, the extra mile. :cheers:

9erempiree

07-04-2016, 05:52 PM

Fixed.

My people were fighting against tyrants when yours were bowing to those same kings. Drinking tea and eating crumpets n shit.

And thank you for being #1 in my fan club. I appreciate every fan but you go out of your way, the extra mile. :cheers:
:facepalm

Racist.

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 05:52 PM

I wonder which country is next.

I feel France may be the next to leave.
France will leave then possible Holland.

The Germans will leave if they're allowed to have a referendum but Merkel will never allow that.

Greeks would leave if given the chance.

Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Czech hopefully would vote EUexit as well.

step_back

07-04-2016, 05:55 PM

I wonder which country is next.

I feel France may be the next to leave.

Netherlands and Denmark are probably next. Although Greece is back on the cards. We buy a lot from them and they're worried that the EU will be punitive towards us. Germany rammed unbelievable austerity down their throats a few years ago when they voted against it. If they left we could set up our own trade deals with them and undermine the EU.

P.S Germany wouldn't leave. The EU is the continuation of Germany and actually has similarities to Nazism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAq1q1_swyM&index=2&list=LLmurg-M8KLtG0DS6xpZsYUA

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 05:58 PM

Greeks have very little to offer the UK other than tourism. That is one of the main reasons the EU failed, it let too many countries in that didn't have anything positive to offer and didn't put their share back in to the pot.

step_back

07-04-2016, 06:00 PM

Greeks have very little to offer the UK other than tourism. That is one of the main reasons the EU failed, it let too many countries in that didn't have anything positive to offer.

We buy tons of dried fruit and olive oil from them. Plus I'd like to see the EU collapse. Whatever it takes.

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 06:03 PM

As soon as article 50 is triggered the EU collapse officially begins. There is no way they can continue to exist for long once UK officially leaves.

Unfortunately it is a very real possibility that the powers that be are doing everything they can to prevent the Brexit from happening. Cameron's stalling tactics and the BBC propaganda campaign seems to be working.

Boris is backing Andrea Leadstrom and she is likely to become the UK's next PM
http://stock.591hx.com/images/hnimg/20160703/32/14053186590046392416.jpg
This is a good thing. Iron Lady II. She will quell the Scottish uprising. She will officially kill socialism in the UK and bury it in the ground. Then true freedom for the people will finally be achieved.

step_back

07-04-2016, 06:11 PM

As soon as article 50 is triggered the EU collapse officially begins. There is no way they can continue to exist for long once UK officially leaves.

Unfortunately it is a very real possibility that the powers that be are doing everything they can to prevent the Brexit from happening. Cameron's stalling tactics and the BBC propaganda campaign seems to be working.

I guess that would depend on how many neoliberals we're infected with. Article 50 has to be triggered, even people that voted remain would see that as being completely anti democratic.

Nick Young

07-04-2016, 06:13 PM

I guess that would depend on how many neoliberals we're infected with. Article 50 has to be triggered, even people that voted remain would see that as being completely anti democratic.
You severely overestimate your fellow countrymen, as well as the anti-logic that drives modern leftistism.

Patrick Chewing

07-04-2016, 11:16 PM

Someone buy that man a beer!

He's more than welcome to enter US politics.

Brunch@Five

07-05-2016, 01:23 AM

Because it doesn't. What does it change exactly? Be specific.

you be specific about how an influential politician like Nigel Farage, who has a considerably capacity to shape the political discourse, does not have influence on the outcome of the biggest political project in the UK for decades.

StephHamann

07-05-2016, 03:30 AM

Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Czech hopefully would vote EUexit as well.

Eastern european countries won't leave, they fear Putin to much.

Dresta

07-05-2016, 10:34 AM

you be specific about how an influential politician like Nigel Farage, who has a considerably capacity to shape the political discourse, does not have influence on the outcome of the biggest political project in the UK for decades.
What kind of ass-backwards bullshit is this? You argued it will have an impact--you have to prove that. You can't prove the absence of something you ignorant child; it's one of the most basic things a person can know: that you cannot prove a negative. The onus probandi is entirely on you, boy-o!

And seriously, with your education, how can you not even be schooled in the most basic rules and assumptions of civilised debate? Been spending too much time learning about the endless intricacies of the silly European Union project, have we? Says everything about how shitty formal education has become: you know your classifications and your labels, but you can't actually understand anything. A bloody parrot.

Dresta

07-05-2016, 10:39 AM

Eastern european countries won't leave, they fear Putin to much.But the only countries that could possible be under threat from Putin (and still I don't think they are, but with them at least a case can be made), are the Baltic States.

Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and co. have been made aware over the last few years that the threat to them comes from the West, not the East. And they should bear in mind that Germany has never been their friend!

sd3035

07-05-2016, 11:44 AM

That don dadda guy is so mad about the whole brexit thing :roll: :roll: :roll:

DonDadda59

07-05-2016, 12:00 PM

That don dadda guy is so mad about the whole brexit thing :roll: :roll: :roll:

What whole thing? :lol

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6ki8Nn2hNso/UwUMLE18C8I/AAAAAAAAHJs/bdeCpSkcWyI/s1600/rats.gif

DeuceWallaces

07-05-2016, 12:28 PM

We already knew Dresta, NY, NumberSix were morons, but watching the leaders of the Brexit movement run and hide while our ISH town idiots keep up the fight is high comedy.

Brunch@Five

07-05-2016, 02:00 PM

What kind of ass-backwards bullshit is this? You argued it will have an impact--you have to prove that. You can't prove the absence of something you ignorant child; it's one of the most basic things a person can know: that you cannot prove a negative. The onus probandi is entirely on you, boy-o!

I'm not in pre-school, so I don't really have the nerve to explain how one of the most prominent and vocal politicians who did loads of campaigning to leave the EU would have serious influence on how a potential Brexit would proceed from here on. It's self-evident.
Don't try to use your twisted logic. "You can't prove the abscence of something" obviously not if the existence has already been proven, dimwit. The heavy influence that Nigel Farage had on British politics, manipulating public opinion and shifting the political balance of power has already occured so there is absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn't continue to have that influence.

Dresta

07-05-2016, 03:06 PM

I'm not in pre-school, so I don't really have the nerve to explain how one of the most prominent and vocal politicians who did loads of campaigning to leave the EU would have serious influence on how a potential Brexit would proceed from here on. It's self-evident.
Don't try to use your twisted logic. "You can't prove the abscence of something" obviously not if the existence has already been proven, dimwit. The heavy influence that Nigel Farage had on British politics, manipulating public opinion and shifting the political balance of power has already occured so there is absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn't continue to have that influence.
Oh, ok, it's "self-evident" and yet you still can't provide the slightest bit of evidence or info showing it to be such. Another failure of debate from you: you can't just declare things to be self-evident and expect people to take them as fact. How delusional can you be?

And you keep showing how little you know about British politics. Farage was not a major leader of the Brexit campaign, and was deliberately sidelined by the official campaign group, of which he was not a part. This helped win them the referendum, as it removed the stigma and divisive figure of Farage from the equation. The people who supported Nigel Farage didn't need any convincing about leaving the EU. Farage was and has always been a marginal figure in British politics, and incredibly divisive (fairly or unfairly). You are just proving to everyone that you know nothing of the subject on which you are opining.

We already knew Dresta, NY, NumberSix were morons, but watching the leaders of the Brexit movement run and hide while our ISH town idiots keep up the fight is high comedy.
Who is "we"--lol @ you associating yourself as a part of some kind of ISHs team--very few people on this site support your self-serving political views.

And you obviously know nothing about UK politics, and are proving it right now. What "leaders of the Brexit movement" (what "movement"?) are you talking about? Nigel Farage never was going to be a part of the government, and it is all over the British press that Boris Johnson was shunted aside by his close ally and old friend Michael Gove (you don't even know who this is, do you?)

Where does this fantasy of yours come from that I respect or admire Brexit politicians? I despise almost all politicians, and nothing any politician has to say affects my view on whether or not leaving the EU was the right move for the UK. I'm not a sheep like you, led by the nose, and always obedient.

The only actually British people posting on this subject (myself and step-back) think you and Don (and the other morons chiming in on things of which they have no knowledge or understanding) are ignorant and conceited rubes. "We" are fed up with loudmouthed and ignorant Americans poking their long noses into affairs which are none of their concern.

NumberSix

07-05-2016, 03:21 PM

We already knew Dresta, NY, NumberSix were morons, but watching the leaders of the Brexit movement run and hide while our ISH town idiots keep up the fight is high comedy.
What possible reason do you have for being pro-EU? :wtf:

Keep in mind, you're a person who probably thinks a mere trade deal with the EU (TPP) is a threat to democracy but you're somehow also in favor of relinquishing all sovereignty and legislative authority to the unelected EU overlords.

Trollsmasher

07-05-2016, 03:43 PM

Remain dummies ITT thinking Farage has any mandate to affect the withdrawal:roll:

Nick Young

07-05-2016, 04:16 PM

We already knew Dresta, NY, NumberSix were morons, but watching the leaders of the Brexit movement run and hide while our ISH town idiots keep up the fight is high comedy.
Another midwestern hick ignoramus attempts to speak about the Brexit as if he has an understanding of the issue :hammerhead:

ISH, the gift that keeps on giving.

Why is this clown Deucey even pro-EU? Does he know anything about what the EU actually is?:hammerhead:

9erempiree

07-05-2016, 04:39 PM

Another midwestern hick ignoramus attempts to speak about the Brexit as if he has an understanding of the issue :hammerhead:

ISH, the gift that keeps on giving.

Why is this clown Deucey even pro-EU? Does he know anything about what the EU actually is?:hammerhead:

I'm all for Brexit but I don't go preaching around like I am some expert.

These pro-EU guys are preaching like they know what is better for another country.

The Left likes to tell people what to do or say. In this instance, where we are thousands and thousands of miles away, they are preaching why the UK should remain.:lol

Brunch@Five

07-05-2016, 04:47 PM

Oh, ok, it's "self-evident" and yet you still can't provide the slightest bit of evidence or info showing it to be such. Another failure of debate from you: you can't just declare things to be self-evident and expect people to take them as fact. How delusional can you be?

if something is "self-evident" I don't need to explain it, duh. An influential and publicly outspoken politician who just had the success of his lifetime dropping out of politics having an influence on the matter is self-evident.

And you keep showing how little you know about British politics. Farage was not a major leader of the Brexit campaign, and was deliberately sidelined by the official campaign group, of which he was not a part. This helped win them the referendum, as it removed the stigma and divisive figure of Farage from the equation. The people who supported Nigel Farage didn't need any convincing about leaving the EU. Farage was and has always been a marginal figure in British politics, and incredibly divisive (fairly or unfairly). You are just proving to everyone that you know nothing of the subject on which you are opining.

so what is it? Was he marginal, or divisive? :biggums:
He is without a doubt been a very important voice in the British discussion of the EU in the last decade.
Acknowledging that I did resort to wikipedia: the guy was voted "Briton of the Year 2014" by The Times, and 2nd in a poll of the top 100 most influential right wingers (behind PM David Cameron). UKIP, under his leadership, won the 2nd most votes nationally in the 2009 European election. Just as any marginal political figure would perform :oldlol:

step_back

07-05-2016, 04:55 PM

For the "pro" EU posters like Don and Douche.

Say you went into a Union with Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and another 23 countries in the vicinity. You contributed the second most amount of money to the union and helped support countries that aren't actually growing economically but are in decline, some even bankrupt. Most of your laws are made by Mexico or Canada and are supreme to yours and if you don't do as you're told you'll face a hefty fine (We've been fined over

DeuceWallaces

07-05-2016, 05:22 PM

Dresta

07-05-2016, 05:28 PM

My point is, if all you knew was Dresta, NY, 9er, and NumberSix supported Brexit it would be enough to know it's likely a poor choice. Watching the leaders of Brexit run and hide while our ISHiots keep changing the world one message board post at a time makes it even better.
Your logic is really poor, and you are proving everything I just said about you: you know nothing about the subject, and yet are making sweeping assumptions based upon your prejudicial instincts (i.e. you are unscientific fool).

Dresta

07-05-2016, 05:31 PM

if something is "self-evident" I don't need to explain it, duh. An influential and publicly outspoken politician who just had the success of his lifetime dropping out of politics having an influence on the matter is self-evident.

"It is such because I say it is such" is all you are arguing here, repeatedly, ad infinitum . No-one has to take your subjective, a priori assumptions as fact. Try to do better next time.

DonDadda59

07-05-2016, 05:40 PM

My point is, if all you knew was Dresta, NY, 9er, and NumberSix supported Brexit it would be enough to know it's likely a poor choice. Watching the leaders of Brexit run and hide while our ISHiots keep changing the world one message board post at a time makes it even better.

To be fair to those cowards, who would want being the person who lit the fuse that destroyed your country on their record?

'There's Boris Johnson, the man who turned the United Kingdom/Great Britain into the White Haiti.'

Nobody wants that on their resume.

Nick Young

07-05-2016, 05:43 PM

My point is, if all you knew was Dresta, NY, 9er, and NumberSix supported Brexit it would be enough to know it's likely a poor choice. Watching the leaders of Brexit run and hide while our ISHiots keep changing the world one message board post at a time makes it even better.
the ignorant hillybilly spews more ignorant verbal feces out of his sphincter:lol

No surprises that Deucey boy supports the EU and the continued oppression of people from Mediterranean nations.

Deuce has a long and consistent history of posting hateful ideas against the working class.

Lebowsky

07-06-2016, 12:56 AM

What kind of ass-backwards bullshit is this? You argued it will have an impact--you have to prove that. You can't prove the absence of something you ignorant child; it's one of the most basic things a person can know: that you cannot prove a negative. The onus probandi is entirely on you, boy-o!

And seriously, with your education, how can you not even be schooled in the most basic rules and assumptions of civilised debate? Been spending too much time learning about the endless intricacies of the silly European Union project, have we? Says everything about how shitty formal education has become: you know your classifications and your labels, but you can't actually understand anything. A bloody parrot.
Yes, you can.

Brunch@Five

07-06-2016, 07:06 AM

"It is such because I say it is such" is all you are arguing here, repeatedly, ad infinitum . No-one has to take your subjective, a priori assumptions as fact. Try to do better next time.

you honestly think a fruitful discussion about politics can be had when a basic assumption is that individual politicians don't have an influence on the process?
If that is your assumption, you're discussing on basis of post-WW 2 realist political science. Say hello to 60 years ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the intellectual debate has moved on.

LJJ

07-06-2016, 07:24 AM

Brunch@Five

07-06-2016, 07:31 AM

I'm sorry Brunch, but this seems like a huge contradiction you are presenting here.

Is Farage concluding his political career immediately and completely distancing himself from his political voice, or is he going to stay MEP for the next two years and represent the British will for independence in Europe?

Sounds to me like Farage is staying in European politics until Brexit is done and not running away from anything.

It's not a contradiction considering that his political impact is not exerted through his formal powers as a representative, but as a public figure who has constantly been campaigning to push his agenda, first and foremost in Great Britain. He managed to shape the national discourse quite considerably.
This not the case for his role in the European Parliament or the European cosmopolitan discourse. The European political System works differently - agendas are set on the intergovernmental level, not in the European Parliament.
He might prove me wrong, but from what he has said (taking his life back) he'll probably collect his paycheck but not really voice his opinion publicly. As a MEP alone he'll have little influence.

LJJ

07-06-2016, 08:14 AM

I can see how you can infer from his small statement that he's going to leave the limelight entirely, it's a bit awkwardly worded. He hasn't really clarified what he'll be doing, so everybody immediately jumps to whatever assumption fits their agenda.

From what I hear he'll be doing a big radioshow this weekend, so we will probably know definitively what his plans are then.

Dresta

07-06-2016, 09:51 AM

you honestly think a fruitful discussion about politics can be had when a basic assumption is that individual politicians don't have an influence on the process?
If that is your assumption, you're discussing on basis of post-WW 2 realist political science. Say hello to 60 years ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the intellectual debate has moved on.
:yaohappy:

Human affairs and interactions don't undergo fundamental changes over 60 years. Your "intellectual debate" is mere intellectual *********ion with no relation to the real world, or to how peoples and nations act, where their allegiances lie, and what sort of things are important to the human species.

There is no new paradigm in political science unless human nature has undergone a fundamental change in the last 60 years--if you think this, you're delusional, and must know very little history--but by all means, keep up the "advanced" and "modern" political science discourse.

And your argument is a straw-man anyway: I never said politicians can't affect outcomes, nor do I see how thinking otherwise is "post-ww2 realism" (always with your bland labels and classifications--a sure sign you have been indoctrinated in how to think; such classifications have no place in the complex art of politics, because it is and has always been more of an art than a science; human beings ought not to be viewed as inanimate objects). "Political Science" is everything that is wrong with politics: it is a junk discipline with little relation to reality; again, it is a way to break the world into little classifiable pieces, so that the rubes can more easily digest it in their simpleminded way. Think about this next time you start blathering on about "post ww2 realism" or "Behavioralism" or "methodological nationalism" or some other such theoretical nonsense (these are constructs, and nothing else).

Sorry to inform you of this, but most of the advanced political scientists that make you feel smart and modern, don't even compare favourably with the fragments left by Polybius 2150 years ago (when it comes to political insight); there is infinitely more to be learnt about human affairs from him, than from someone like Rawls or Dahl (their books will be dead and buried in 100 years). What you've been taught is a load of bollocks for the most part, and I know, because I went through it myself.

Farage has not stepped down from all politics; he resigned as leader, as he had already offered to do after he failed to win a seat in Parliament (he's not even a member of Parliament!) in the last general election; the UKIP Part committee pleaded with him to stay on at least until the referendum had been held, and he did. That you should find this so astounding and monumental is really quite strange--maybe you need some more up to date political science lectures? Because you clearly have only started paying attention to UK politics since they voted to leave the EU. It's easy to see when someone joins the party late, unaware of everything that happened before they got there, and laughable when they start making large judgements based upon the few seconds of the party they've been to.

Yes, you can.
Oh, ok then, tell me then how one can prove that Aliens (or ghosts) don't exist. And i mean proof, not just a probabilistic assumption.

Lebowsky

07-06-2016, 10:27 AM

Oh, ok then, tell me then how one can prove that Aliens (or ghosts) don't exist. And i mean proof, not just a probabilistic assumption.

That, I don't know. However, I do know nonexistence (or absence of existence) can be and is proven regularly in many different fields. Take Fermat's theorem, for example. I was merely pointing out what you said is incorrect.

NumberSix

07-06-2016, 10:32 AM

That, I don't know. However, I do know nonexistence (or absence of existence) can be and is proven regularly in many different fields. Take Fermat's theorem, for example. I was merely pointing out what you said is incorrect.
Absence =/= non existence.

Even if you can prove something is absent in a specific place, you can't prove that it doesn't exist anywhere.

Brunch@Five

07-06-2016, 11:32 AM

Human affairs and interactions don't undergo fundamental changes over 60 years.

knowledge does.
you can't seriously deny that a) politicians and other public figures can and do heavily influence public opinion and b) public opinion affects political processes.
Deducting from those two "truths" it is self-evident that Farage leaving the British political stage does indeed influence how Brexit will play out.
If you want to stick to your hardcore realism then so be it. It's your loss.

Brunch@Five

07-06-2016, 11:36 AM

Absence =/= non existence.

Even if you can prove something is absent in a specific place, you can't prove that it doesn't exist anywhere.

If we're talking about a binary phenomenon (0/1) we can absolutely prove that "0" is untrue when we can observe "1".
i.e., if we prove/correctly assume that individual politicians influence the political process, we know that the opposite is untrue.

unless you're talking about parallel universes

Brunch@Five

07-06-2016, 11:50 AM

Dresta, just reminding you what you initially said:

Whether Farage is or is not leader of the fringe UKIP party doesn't have any effect on Brexit.

Grats on showing that you understand nothing about UK politics. As leader of UKIP Farage could have no part in any Brexit negotiations.

now you say

I never said politicians can't affect outcomes

asking again, how do you conclude that Nigel Farage removing himself from the British political sphere does NOT affect the outcome, considering that he has been a major factor in the Brexit debate until this point. I just don't see how he would suddenly have lost all influence he had.
Your argument for him not having impact is that he would not have partaken in negotiations. Thereby ignoring all other possible ways in which political actors can impact political processes and presenting a view of human nature that reduces political processes to mere (pseudo-rational) transactions following objective logics.

I don't have any more time for you if you can't acknowledge the simple truth that it makes a difference for UK politics and the outcome of Brexit whether Farage is engaged in the process or not.

Dresta

07-06-2016, 12:21 PM

There's no contradiction in those two quotes. I don't see why you think there is.

I don't have any more time for you if you can't acknowledge the simple truth that Nigel Farage was never going to be involved in the Brexit process, as leader of UKIP or otherwise. It's really not that hard to understand; I don't think you know enough about UK politics to be commenting on this sort of thing tbh. Boris Johnson and the building of a cross-party coalition was much more important in getting the Leave vote than Nigel Farage. He was instrumental in forcing the referendum, but pretty unimportant in getting the Leave vote, and almost entirely irrelevant when it comes to Brexit negotiations.

What is so complicated?

knowledge does.
you can't seriously deny that a) politicians and other public figures can and do heavily influence public opinion and b) public opinion affects political processes.
Deducting from those two "truths" it is self-evident that Farage leaving the British political stage does indeed influence how Brexit will play out.
If you want to stick to your hardcore realism then so be it. It's your loss.I've never said that. But Farage's influence on the public has been marginal, and he has always been of marginal influence. Shifts in public opinion due to the blindness of the mainstream parties is not Farage influencing the political process; the inability for the mainstream parties to listen to their voters is at the heart of it. That's why you're seeing the rise of nationalist parties all over Europe: in the childish structure vs. agency paradigm taught to political science students, this is almost entirely a structural thing (elites all over Europe, ignoring the protestations of their populations--any demagogue can take advantage of such a situation, and there is no shortage of demagogues in democracies).

I don't know why you think I don't think individual persons can play a great role in human affairs--I think the "Great Man" theory of history has a lot of evidence in its favour. English history would be almost entirely different if Alfred had never existed, for example; but Alfred was the last king of the Saxons, Nigel Farage was the leader of UKIP. Perhaps the entirety of European history would be almost wholly different if not for the caution of Fabius Maximus, and the military expertise of Scipio Africanus--but although I think Farage is given a hard time by the media and political class, I know he's not one of these figures, and that his influence is marginal (UKIP has ONE member of Parliament, and that one member dislikes Farage); he's no Lord Chatham or Robert Walpole; stop with this silliness.